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Don Lemon Tonight

Politics and Race Examined; Protests in Numerous Cities; Protests Peaceful Tonight. Aired 10-11p ET

Aired September 23, 2016 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[22:00:00] ANDERSON COOPER, AC360 SHOW HOST: That's if for us. Thanks for watching.Have a great weekend. I'll see you Sunday night. CNN Tonight with Don Lemon starts now.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is CNN breaking news.

DON LEMON, CNN TONIGHT SHOW HOST: Right now, you are looking live at Charlotte, North Carolina. Protests largely peaceful tonight for the fourth night after the fatal police shooting of Keith Lamont Scott.

This is CNN Tonight. I'm Don Lemon.

Thanks for joining us. The protests in Charlotte and in Atlanta coming in the wake of the Scott family's release of a disturbing cell phone video. A video taken by the victim's wife that shows the moments leading to his fatal shooting by police.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Don't shoot him. He has no weapon. He has no weapon. Don't shoot him.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Don't shoot. Don't shoot! (muted).

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Don't shoot him. Don't shoot him. He didn't do anything.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Drop the gun! Drop the gun!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He doesn't have a gun. He has a TBI. He's not going to do anything to you, guys. He just took his medicine.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Drop the gun! Let me get out (muted) him of here.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Keith, don't let them break the windows. Come on out of the car.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Drop the gun.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Keith, don't do it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Drop the gun!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Keith, get out the car. Keith, Keith, don't you do it. Don't you do it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Drop the gun. Drop the gun!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Keith, Keith, Keith! Don't you do it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: There's a lot to discuss tonight. So, meanwhile we should tell you with protestors in the streets again tonight. You're looking at live pictures now. The mayor of Charlotte asking the candidates to stay away for now.

The mayor will join us in just moments, but first I want to get to CNN's Boris Sanchez and Brian Todd, they're both back out on the streets this evening as they have been for a number of evenings this week on CNN.

Boris Sanchez, you first. This is the fourth night of unrest since the shooting of Keith Lamont Scott. Last night was relatively peaceful. What's going on this evening?

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Don, that tone of peacefulness continues into this night. We started close to the Omni hotel again with a rather crowd. It started with about 100 people. It's grown considerably, definitely more than perhaps 200 people right now.

And the chants have been continuous. The main one I keep hearing is release the tapes. There's a lot of frustration in this crowd, especially because of the tape that was released today from Rakeyia Scott. The tape that she released showing the incident on camera causing a lot of confusion here.

I spoke to one mom who told me that the tape had no answers for her, that this only puts pressure on police to release their only videos of the incident.

I can tell you we've been walking all over downtown Charlotte last night, we walked about five miles with these protesters today, it gets close to that. At one point we actually walked on Highway 277 several miles downtown far away from here, and as we got down the highway, there was some worry but the police were prepared for them.

They had the highway shut down on both sides allowing these protestors to come through. And something that we saw last night that we're seeing again tonight the crowd has continued to move, even though we've taken a brief pause here at a park not far from downtown, it looks like they're starting some kind of -- it looks like a prayer circle right now.

Even though they're stopping right now, they have continuously been moving all night. And I spoke to an organizer who told me that is by design. They are purposely trying to avoid any road blocks or any areas where there are riot police or police in riot gear in order to avoid the kind of confrontation we saw two nights ago where things very quickly got out of hand. I can also add, Don, there is still National Guard at key spots

stationed around the city. We've also heard that there is a contingent of people from Ferguson here. I spoke to one guy who said that there were about 20 people from Ferguson here trying to voice their displeasure with the fact that these incidents continue to happen.

Again from what we've seen so far, this crowd has been very peaceful. There haven't been any incidents with police, even though police have been walking side-by-side with the protestors.

The hope is of course that that continues into the evening and as they've said over and over, what they want is the release of these tapes as you heard earlier, the mayor of Charlotte saying that she is also asking for the release of these tapes, so is the attorney general of the state of North Carolina.

These protestors certainly have voiced their thoughts, so, Don, I guess the ball is in police's court at this point.

LEMON: Yes, And we'll be speaking to the mayor just momentarily. Boris Sanchez up on the street. We're watching it with Boris, the audience as well.

[22:05:01] It will unfold and you'll see it here live for us. Stand by. I want to get to CNN's Brian Todd. Brian, tell me what's going on near where you are.

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Don, we are in Ramari Bearden Park where the protestors have come and made a circle, they're making speeches over here now. It's been a very peaceful, spirited night of walking, of marching. But, Don, to interstate 277 and didn't occupy that but march through it, and the police seem to allow them to do it as long as there are some kind of understanding that they will leave on their own which they have done.

They've now come here to Romare Bearden Park and they're doing some chants here, we can -- if we can put the microphone here for a second.

(CROWD CHANTING)

TODD: OK. So, a big theme of this protests tonight, Don, as it has been last night. But even more so tonight because the controversy over the release or the non-release of the police body cam and dashcam tapes, this crowd has been chanting all night, release the tapes.

They've got banners saying "release the tapes." They are not accepting the police's explanation they need to keep those tapes under wraps for now because of the investigation. Police saying they don't want to compromise the investigation. This crowd just does buying that.

They did see the video released by Keith Lamont Scott's wife today, just a dramatic piece of video and they're also asking the same questions, why can't the police release that tape?

The police and the mayor's office or the mayor has for her part said that she wants the tapes released as soon as possible for transparently and she even predicted that tonight there would be protests if those tapes were not released.

He said, you know, unless and until they are for some clarity, for some transparently, she expects protests to continue and, you know, her prophecy here has come true at least for tonight.

Now what's interesting also, Don, is that the mayor's office and the police Chief Kerr Putney has said that right now this is in the hands, the investigation is on the hands of the state bureau of investigation. We've been pressing them, as well, will you release these tapes? We haven't gotten an answer from them really at all.

So, again, you wondering how this is going to affect the dynamic of these crowds, every night. How long will they be patient. What will they be saying on the streets every night as long as those tapes remain sealed?

You know, again, they're very impatient about that and you get the sense that if there was just a little bit of transparency here, even maybe something along the lines of what the mayor proposed.

Earlier this morning, she was talking about, let's have community leaders look at the tape, if we are not allowed to release them publicly, let's have community leaders to look at the tape and disseminated them and describe what they're seeing so the public can, at least, can get some satisfaction that way.

Well, we have not seen that yet, either, Don, as you know. So, here's where we are. I'd say a couple hundred people here tonight, very spirited, really upbeat. It's been kind of a really positive message. But again growing more and more patient that the fact that, you know, just these tapes have not been released yet.

LEMON: Brian Todd in the crowd, as well as Boris Sanchez and the resources of CNN there in Charlotte, North Carolina. Again, this is the fourth night of protests, two of those nights turned violent with several people hurt, many police officers hurt, and sadly, one person dead.

A protestor believe to have been shot by another protestor, that's according to police, and again we're keeping our eye on this.

Let's speak to the mayor now. We have mentioned the mayor so much. Charlotte Mayor Jennifer Robert. Mayor, thank you so much for joining us. Before I get a mood of what's going on there, I just want to read something to you.

This is from the Hillary Clinton campaign because she announced that she was going to come there on Sunday and you asked that the candidates postpone their trips because you are very, busy there dealing with that situation.

And the communications director said that "Hillary is grateful for and intends to honor the invitation from faith leaders to visit the -- with the Charlotte community. After further discussion with community leaders we have decided to postpone Sunday's trip as to not impact the city's resources. She will plan to visit Charlotte next Sunday provided circumstances allow. And in the meantime, her prayers are with the people of Charlotte during these difficult days."

And it has also been said, Mayor, that Donald Trump would visit, as well. You have a lot to deal with and I would imagine that's the main reason you chose to have the candidate or to ask them not to come so that you can deal with the situation happening there and give full resources to it.

JENNIFER ROBERTS, CHARLOTTE MAYOR: Absolutely. And I put out the statement so that both the candidates I know they are very interested in Charlotte, but to wait delay until we have some things resolve here, it is good to see that we have a more peaceful again tonight. But we know that we still have resources deployed and we want to make sure that we can have the best environment for a visit.

LEMON: Yes.

ROBERTS: And so, we're grateful. we're grateful for their interests.

LEMON: Yes, Donald Trump also saying he will not visit, as well, and they will -- they'll look at it again after this cools down a bit.

[22:10:01] So, mayor again, the mayor of Charlotte and she joins us now live. Mayor, today, the family of Keith Lamont Scott released a video that was recorded by Scott's wife. I want to play it for you and then we'll take. Here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Don't shoot him. Don't shoot him. He has no weapon. He has no weapon. Don't shoot him.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Don't shoot. Don't shoot! (muted)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Don't shoot him. Don't shoot him. He didn't do anything.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Drop the gun! Drop the gun!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He doesn't have a gun. He has a TBI. He's not going to do anything to you, guys. He just took his medicine.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Drop the gun! Let me get out (muted) him of here.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Keith, don't let them break the windows. Come on out of the car.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Drop the gun.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Keith, don't do it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Drop the gun!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Keith, get out the car. Keith, Keith, don't you do it. Don't you do it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Drop the gun. Drop the gun! UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Keith, Keith, Keith! Don't you do it. (muted)

Did you shoot him? Did you shoot him? Di you shoot him! He better not be dead. He better not be (muted) dead. I know that (muted) much. I'm know that much he bet not be dead. I'm not go come at you, I'm going to record though.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let her go.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm not coming to you. I'm going to record you. He better be alive. Because I come -- he better be alive not dead. Yes, we're over here.

Yes, we're here, over here at 50 -- at 50 9453 Lexington Court. These are the police officers that shot my husband, and he better live. He better live. Because he didn't do nothing to them.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is everybody good? Are you good?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He didn't -- nobody touch nobody, so they're all good.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You good?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I know he better live. I know he better live. How about that. I'm not coming to you guys but he better live. He better live. He better live. You all hear this and you see this, right? He better live. He better live. I swear he better live. Yes. He better live. He better (muted) live. He better live. Where is -- he better (muted) live.

And I can't even leave -- I'm not going anywhere. I'm in the same (muted) spot. That's OK. Did you all call the police, I mean, did you all call the ambulance?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Mayor, very tense, very dramatic. What is your reaction to this video?

ROBERTS: It's a very painful video, and our thoughts are with the Scott family. It's just very difficult. The challenge is that it's inconclusive, as are the two videos I've been able to view that were taken from the police dash camera and body camera. They're inconclusive and they don't tell the whole story and that's the challenge.

I asked the state Bureau of Investigation, to complete its investigation as soon as possible so we can get all the information released to the public to get a complete picture.

LEMON: So, you said you've asked the Bureau of Investigations -- I saw the statement that you released earlier asking for North Carolina State Bureau of Investigations to release the body cam and the dashcam video. The new information that I've gotten here mayor is that Charlotte-Mecklenburg Police Department remains custodian of the original recording of the dash and body cam footage showing the shooting death of Keith Lamont Scott.

And that's according to a statement from the North Carolina State Bureau of Investigations. "The CMPD still has the legal authority to release the recordings," SBI says in the statement. And SBI also states that "Discussions are underway between local officials regarding the release of the footage."

Do you have any role in playing -- do you play any role into getting this video released? Are you somehow going to mediate or can you between the Bureau of Investigations and the police department to get it out there?

ROBERTS: Well, we have our attorneys currently in conversation as to who actually has the legal authority to release it. And what my statement will continue to be is whoever has that authority, I am urging them to release it, I'm urging them to show transparently, and again, to complete that investigation as soon as possible so that we have a full picture. I think that is a big challenge, as well.

LEMON: Do you think that the release of the video from the wife, has it had any effect on the protesting or the protestors?

ROBERTS: Well, I think that it can raise more questions. I think that again, there's a lot of tension because there has not been a complete picture painted and I think that protestors and demonstrators are very concerned that they're hearing two different stories and they have no way to confirm stories and trust is an issue.

[22:15:04] So again, we want to respect the integrity of the investigation. We've had our police department doing an investigation, now we have our state bureau doing an investigation. We want to respect that integrity. We want to put all resources possible into that. I'm asking they conclude as soon as possible and release full information to the public so that we can help settle some of those questions.

LEMON: Yes, and you have made that very clear, mayor. You know the only person I have spoken to who has seen, well, besides the attorney who has seen all three of these videotapes now, the dashcam, the body cam and also the video from the wife would be you. How does this tape from the wife compare to the other two videos?

ROBERTS: Well, the challenge here is that all of the three videos that I have seen are inconclusive. None of them show with clarity what Mr. Scott was holding, none of them show with clarity a full picture of the incident and even taken together, that is why other aspects of the investigation, eyewitness accounts, other evidence on the scene, et cetera, are needed to complete that picture.

And so again, I'm hoping that we can get to a point where all of that information is released so that we can have a more complete picture.

LEMON: Mayor, I appreciate you joining us. But I just have another question before I let you go. There earlier, it had been -- it has been told to CNN -- you know sometimes in these investigations there's drip, drip, drip of information coming out, about a gun, about other evidence, about fingerprints, about blood evidence and so on.

What can you tell us about that, because the police chief said that there was other evidence that made him sure that the initial reporting of this was accurate by police? What's the other evidence and have you -- have you seen it?, do you know about it?

ROBERTS: I am not -- I have not been informed of any other aspects of evidence that might be available. Those are details for our investigators, and I've heard there is more evidence. I know they've been interviewing witnesses and neighbors and other folks who may have more information. They are putting together more of that evidence but I have not been told what that is and how broad that is. I'm waiting to hear just like everyone else.

LEMON: Yes, Mayor Jennifer Roberts of Charlotte, we know it's a very busy time for you and we appreciate your patience and we appreciate your time joining us here this evening on CNN. Thank you very much.

ROBERTS: Thank you.

LEMON: Charlotte not the only place that there are protests tonight. There are protest in other cities around the country. We'll take you there right after this break.

[22:20:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Live pictures now, you see Atlanta on the left-hand side of your screen. Charlotte, on the right. Our breaking news tonight. Protests in those two cities over the fatal police shooting of Keith Lamont Scott.

Let's go straight to CNN's Martin Savidge, who is with us from the protests in Atlanta. Martin, what are you seeing?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We saw the people coming down. Here's a good shot.

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, George. Just outside the police headquarters here. This is the area that demonstrators announce just a short while ago they intend to occupy, and they intend to occupy they say all the way until midnight, perhaps even beyond, because the symbolism you see, it's midnight in America.

Several hundred people here, all different (Inaudible) white, black, a whole mixture that is representative of Atlanta, they're peaceful, but very disciplined. There were times that they approached some of the highways, those were still blocked off, but they have their parade marshals so they keep this group moving and they brought them here and this is where they intend to stay.

They say that this protest of course is keeping with what has been happening across the nation and the police shootings that have been taking place this week, they've happened here in Atlanta as well. It's an angry crowd but they're focused and have a clear message, they won't tolerate this and what has been the status quo cannot continue.

A very interesting that historic perspective, this march began at the Civil Rights museum and then it marched all the way into the neighborhood of Dr. Martin Luther King, ending at the King Center where there were speeches, so the historic significance on both ends.

And again, it's remained peaceful, it's remained organized, and on message. But now they're going to occupy outside the Atlanta city police headquarters, Don.

LEMON: All right. Martin Savidge joining us live from Atlanta police headquarters, the site of those protests down in Atlanta. Martin, thank you very much. We appreciate that.

As we look at these live pictures. I want to my panel. Let's discuss this now with Chris Swecker, he is a former FBI assistant director who is now an attorney in Charlotte. David Klinger is here, he is a former police officer and the author of "Into the Kill Zone," and CNN legal analyst, Mark O'Mara.

Good evening, gentlemen. Thanks for joining us. Mark, to you first. I want to play this dramatic cell phone video again, showing this deadly confrontation. We can't see the actual shooting here but this is just one piece of the puzzle in figuring out what happened to Mr. Scott. Let's look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Don't shoot him. Don't shoot him. He has no weapon. He has no weapon. Don't shoot him.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Don't shoot. Don't shoot! (muted)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Don't shoot him. Don't shoot him. He didn't do anything.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Drop the gun! Drop the gun!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He doesn't have a gun. He has a TBI. He's not going to do anything to you, guys. He just took his medicine.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Drop the gun! Let me get out (muted) him of here.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Keith, don't let them break the windows. Come on out of the car.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Drop the gun.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Keith, don't do it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Drop the gun!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Keith, get out the car. Keith, Keith, don't you do it. Don't you do it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Drop the gun. Drop the gun!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Keith, Keith, Keith! Don't you do it. (muted) Did you shoot him? Did you shoot him? Did you shoot him! He better not be dead. He better not be (muted) dead. I know that (muted) much. I'm know that much he better not be dead. I'm not go come at you, I'm going to record though.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let her go.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm not coming to you. I'm going to come near to you. He better be alive. Because I come -- he better be alive, how about that. Yes, we're over here.

Yes, we're here, over here at 50 -- at 50 9453 Lexington Court. These are the police officers that shot my husband, and he better live. He better live. Because he didn't do nothing to them.

[22:25:04] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is everybody good? Are you good?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He didn't -- nobody touch nobody, so they're all good.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You good?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I know he better live. I know he better live. How about that. I'm not coming to you guys but he better live. He better live. He better live. You all hear this and you see this, right? He better live. He better live. I swear he better live. Yes. He better live. He better (muted) live. He better live. Where is -- he better (muted) live.

And I can't even leave -- I'm not going anywhere. I'm in the same (muted) spot. That's OK. Did you all call the police, I mean, did you all call the ambulance?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Mark O'Mara, I have to ask you from what you see, does this either exonerate the officers or show them to be culpable in any way from what you can see here?

MARK O'MARA, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, first of all, our prayers with Keith's family. And terrific to have to watch a wife watch her husband get killed.

Now, we don't know if it was justified or not. And quite honestly this video doesn't tell us very much. Unfortunately, although I do believe it's time now to release the other two videos, it sounds from the chief's description of them that they're not going to tell us very much either.

But if I were to analyze this from a purely legal perspective, some information that came out is one, he has a TBI, maybe good, but that doesn't help an officer because a TBI, or brain injury if they knew it to be one doesn't mean anything, but he may not be acting rationally.

And then the idea that he doesn't have a gun but we have three officers yelling that he has one, it's very troubling. Whatever she was talking about when she said don't do it - several times, I will tell you on behalf of the officers, it's troubling for whatever he was doing because these very officers who think or believed, or he may in fact have a gun are going to react to that immediate sense of fear.

It is a horribly troubling event that is happening yet again that we have to watch it and talk about it here, Don, with you and I, and a wife has to watch it on TV.

LEMON: Yes.

O'MARA: But this video doesn't give us much insight as to the legitimacy of the shooting of Keith.

LEMON: Very well put. And I thought about that earlier the number of times just within the last year or two, Mark, that we have watched similar things happen on tape and families having to, can you imagine being a family member, regardless of the circumstances just watching your loved one in the last moments of their life.

Chris, I have to ask you this, there are only a few minutes where we see Scott out of his car, but it is unclear if he is holding a handgun. His wife is saying he doesn't have a gun and the officers are yelling for him to put the gun down.

If police -- if they have another video that shows Scott with a gun, why not put that out? Even if it -- even if it may be inconclusive that it might show something, why not put it out?

CHRIS SWECKER, FORMER FBI DIRECTOR: Well, because you don't want to try a case in the media and there are potential witnesses out there. They want those witnesses to have their own recollections and their own observations, not something they saw on TV, not from some video that's been put out there.

So, there's still an investigation going on that has to be protected, plus you could taint a jury, you could taint the rights of a potential defendant. There's a lot of reasons not to at this point. Maybe sometime in the future.

LEMON: Yes. David, I have to ask you, the gunshots ring out, less than a minute into this video, you have been in these very stressful, very tense situations. What are police trained to do and just from what you can tell in this video did they do it properly?

DAVID KLINGER, UNIVERSITY OF MISSOURI CRIMINOLOGY PROFESOR: It's difficult to know whether they did everything properly because it's difficult to know precisely where they were, what information they had, so on and so forth. And we have to analyze it based upon the totality of the circumstances and from that video, I, nobody else, knows the totality of those circumstances.

But generally, what police officers are trained to do has to do with this, if you see an individual with a firearm, you need to give firm, direct commands to go ahead and let go of that firearm drop that firearm whatever term of art you want to use, depending on how they're holding and what they're doing with it.

And if it gets to a point where some sort of aggressive movement with that firearm threatens the officer, then at that point, the use of deadly force would be appropriate. The use of deadly force is not appropriate merely because someone has a gun. It has to do with what they are doing with that gun.

LEMON: All right. Gentlemen, I want you to stand by because there's...

O'MARA: Don.

LEMON: Mark, I'll get to you in just a little bit. I have to get to the break.

O'MARA: Sure:

LEMON: But I have to show our viewers. We're going to continue to talk about the politics of all of this. What's this have to do with what's playing out on the campaign trail? It is. And there is new information regarding Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump as it relates to this, right after this break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[22:30:00] DON LEMON, CNN TONIGHT SHOW HOST: We're back with Chris Swecker, David Klinger, Mark O'Mara. So, let's discuss this. Let's look at this video because this is what people are relying on to give them a full picture. So this is the video and what's in question, the family put out, and also what people are saying is that they don't see a gun there, that he has a gun, he doesn't have a gun.

So this is what they believe could be a gun, or could be something else, could be gloves. As you look at this, what does it look like to you? This is for David.

DAVID KLINGER, UNIVERSITY OF MISSOURI CRIMINOLOGY PROFESOR: It's really difficult to say. You know, we're looking at something that is fairly flat and it is being taken, you know, the shot is being taken from an angle and I don't really know.

At some point, I don't know if it's this object or another object, one of the officer's slides his foot along the ground and moves something. That perhaps could be a gun.

LEMON: OK.

KLINGER: But we don't know.

LEMON: David, I'm going to play that part, the sliding part.

(CROSSTALK)

KLINGER: OK.

LEMON: But I just want to get a reaction the reaction from all of you. Mark, is this there, legally, does this mean anything? Does this show you anything?

[22:35:03] MARK O'MARA, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Again, it could be a gun, it looks like it, more importantly is the suggestion that they have blood and DNA evidence on a gun they said was there, but this, again, it doesn't give us anything this positive.

LEMON: Chris?

CHRIS SWECKER, FORMER FBI DIRECTOR: Yes, I think it's one heck of a hitch to say that these officers got together and lied in that short period of time while the wife's standing there, somebody threw down a gun in front of a dash camera. I just don't get it.

I don't see that at all. I think photo enhancement will tell whether that's a gun or isn't a gun, but you got to -- you got to believe these officers were doing the right thing.

LEMON: Yes. That is -- you know, considering the -- what they said was a gun there -- if we can show the picture from one of our affiliates that we had yesterday evening, if we can show that.

But first before we go to that let's go to the video -- there it is. That's fine. So this is a different angle, though. This angle is further to the right, and, again, what you look at there and what people are saying looks like a gun you still don't know if that's a gun, that you would need further enhancement to tell if that's a gun. That would be what many people have told to me black latex gloves. David?

SWECKER: Exactly, who knows that we'll just have to wait and see.

LEMON: OK. So, now let's look at the video where people are saying it looks like the officers threw something down what they believe is a gun and it looks like he's taking off gloves and then throwing them to the ground. It doesn't hit the ground like a gun. But it is in this video. Let's look at it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. He better live. He better (muted) live. He better live. Where is -- he better (muted) live.

And I can't even leave -- I'm not going nowhere.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: So, again, when you see him there the officer, again throwing something to the ground. It looks like he's taking right there something off and throwing it to the ground.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's too close.

LEMON: And so, this is what, you know, they're going to go over, and over, and over, this, Chris, right before they come to some -- there it is right there. They're going to go over, and over, and over this, and this this why they're not, maybe they're not releasing this video because they're trying to figure out exactly what that is?

SWECKER: They may be waiting for some enhancement of the video. These videos are all about angles. Unfortunately, you know, I think we've got unrealistic expectations sometimes about what that video is actually going to show.

But the wife is standing there with a running dialogue. This is right under her nose. It would be hard to believe that they planted a gun right under her nose.

LEMON: Mark?

O'MARA: Those are not -- I'm now looking at it again, and I will come up with my prognostication. That is not a gun. The reason why it's not a gun, is it makes sense that it's -- the gloves he was taking off.

And here's another thing. If that is a gun, they would immediately assign an officer to keep his eyes on it, to keep his feet around it, that is now potentially a weapon significant piece of evidence, and if you can see, everyone's ignoring it.

So, I think we're going to find out that, Don, you are right, those are black latex gloves and don't have any evidentiary value.

LEMON: OK. Let me ask you this, David, because you see the officer in the red there. The officer in the red appears to be standing over something and he -- appears that he may have moved it with his feet and if you look that's the angle where you see the other picture that's circled. If there is indeed a gun, would it be where the officer is standing right there and would he be standing over it? Is that standard protocol?

(CROSSTALK)

SWECKER: That's what he would do.

KLINGER: It could be. Following on a gleam it was Mark said an officer would be assigned to guard that gun. I've actually done that a scene of an officer-involved shooting many, many years ago. I showed up on the scene and they said "Dave, you watch this."

At any rate, I just wanted to backtrack to what the other guests commented about. We might have less expectation about what any video can disclose. And I think what people are used to, they're used to the pristine videos from sports but these types of videos, and videos from in-car cameras and body cameras don't have that stuff, in terms of set camera angles and so on and so forth.

And so, I do think that we're going to have to understand as a society that the video is not always going to give us what we desire.

LEMON: Yes. Chris, I have to run, but you were saying that's what they're trained to do, that's what they're to do, you just said that, is that correct?

SWECKER: That's correct. I mean, well, you have to understand, too, these officers are startled. There's been a shooting. I'm not sure for the first 30 seconds that they're going to follow protocol.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: Right there that they are going to play, you can see it. Yes. OK.

SWECKER: Yes.

LEMON: Chris, thank you. Mark, thank you. David, I really appreciate it.

O'MARA: Thanks for having me.

LEMON: Thank you.

We're going to talk about politics and race and new information on Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton as it relates to this particular story. Live pictures from Charlotte and also another protest in Atlanta as we continue on right after this break.

[22:40:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Our breaking news tonight, right now we're focusing on Atlanta and this is the jail downtown Atlanta, and that's where we find our Martin Savidge. Martin, I'm hearing here is a bit of confrontation with the protestors in Atlanta police. I don't know if they're violent but a standoff of sorts, what do you have?

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Don, we're just outside the jail here in downtown Atlanta, it is an area that the crowd decided to come upon at the last minute, they group over at the police headquarters. And just outside on the steps there were some cars about two dozen, maybe three dozen officers.

Instead, at the doors there was at latest one or two young men in this crowd that ran and rushed at the and Atlanta prison and (Inaudible) that's what triggered a scuffle condemnation that quickly got under control, mainly by the protestors. There were those who say, hey, put an end to that right now.

But this crowd is now gathered, crowded, and pushing up against the steps of the front entrance of the facility here, and so that's why you're hearing the noise and that's why you're hearing and seeing a confrontation.

[22:45:02] But again they're trying to reign it in. It's the only altercation we've seen after what has been more than three hours of protests.

LEMON: Martin, how many people are we talking there at the jail among these protestors?

SAVIDGE: You know, the crowd has risen and then fallen again. I would say, you know, here we're talking about maybe 200, 250 of that. There is a heavy police presence in the area. You could see on top of roof tops especially around the police headquarters. We've also had a police helicopter that's been hovering very close to the crowd overhead and you can just hear now as the crowd is shouting out. This is -- this is, again, a very mixed crowd. It's not one group or

another. It's Black Lives Matter, it's church groups, all the way to the Unitarians. You've got many, many different groups that have been part of this and it has been intended to send a message because to say that it is midnight in America, in others words these are very difficult dark times in this country.

And of course, in fact that it started as it did at the Civil Rights museum and then moved to the King Center, such great historic connections. And that's what they're trying to say here. There is a direct connection between the events that are happening and the events of the Civil Rights movement from the past.

Young and old are here demonstrating in one voice and that voice is to say that they will not accept police violence. Don?

LEMON: Martin savage, I want you to stand by. Martin there, right in the middle of a protest, raucous protest happening in Atlanta, but so far a peaceful protest. Martin said this is all culminated on the steps or at least in front of the jail in downtown Atlanta police headquarters.

Martin is keeping an eye on that. He says the crowd, there's ebb and flow of hundreds and then it comes out that it gets bigger again.

Live pictures now from our affiliate WSB down in Atlanta, thank you, WSB for that. Also, of course are protests happening in Charlotte where this all happened, the shooting death of a man just a few days ago, the fourth night of protests.

And you're looking at live pictures now from our affiliate WB TV down in North Carolina. We're going to keep an eye on all of these protests tonight and discuss how this affects presidential elections. I promised you earlier we'll get to the political news right after this break.

[22:50:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Live pictures from Charlotte. There are the protests there, you can see them going on also in Atlanta. So, listen, we know the debate is on Monday night. We know that this is playing out on the campaign trail.

Both candidates said that they're going to Charlotte, now they have called off their trips because the mayor said they got a lot of stuff to do.

I want to bring in David Gergen now from Boston, and our Larry Sabato joins us now from UVA. So, gentlemen, thank you so much for joining us this evening. We've got to get to it quick because we have a breaking news tonight.

David, both of the candidates tonight said that they would be going and since they dialed all of this back, and then President Obama today opening -- at the opening of the African-American museum making this statement, here it is. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA PRESIDENT: My hope is that as people are seeing what's happened in Tulsa or Charlotte on television, and perhaps are less familiar with not only the history of the African-American experience, but also how recent some of these challenges have been upon visiting the museum may step back and say, I understand.

I sympathize. I emphasize. I can see why folks might feel angry and I want to be part of the solution as opposed to resisting change.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: So I think he's referring to -- and I want to you, David, do you think he's referring to Donald Trump and what's your reaction?

DAVID GERGEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: I'm not sure who you're speaking to, Don.

LEMON: David. David, to you. David Gergen.

GERGEN: Yes, sure. I do think he was speaking to Donald Trump. But I think what's interesting here now is these shootings which and have been ripping apart the social fabric in this country, are now not only going to be part of the opening of this museum, but they're going to be smack middle in the first presidential debate which is going to the climatic point of this whole campaign.

I just think there is no way that the moderator and the two candidates can avoid this because it's so searing and watching these things on television as you have been showing them to us, I think they're going to be top of mind for an awful lot of people who tune to debate on Monday.

LEMON: Larry Sabato, break down how race is going to factor into this election and Election Day and into the debates that are coming up.

LARRY SABATO, VIRGINIA UNIVERSITY CENTER FOR POLITICS DIRECTOR: Sure. Well, in general, Hillary Clinton will get somewhere between 80 and 85 percent of the votes of African-Americans, Latinos, Asian-Americans and other minorities. She's going to do even better probably than most democratic candidates do.

The question is whether they will vote in large numbers. They haven't been excited. Maybe this situation and the ones like it all over the country will contribute to getting them excited.

Donald Trump meanwhile depends almost entirely on not just the white vote but a certain segment of the white vote, blue-collar workers, non-college educated, that's where he's winning in a landslide.

He's losing white college-educated voters which is highly unusual. Mitt Romney carried them by a large margin four years ago, so this may also charge them up at another direction and it may make them likely to vote. LEMON: Just quickly, you said she's going to get 80 to 85 percent if

not more and maybe better than any other democratic candidate, why is that of the minority vote?

SABATO: Because of the contrast with Donald Trump.

LEMON: OK.

SABATO: He is -- he is at all-time low with Latinos.

LEMON: Got it.

[22:54:59] LEMON: I mean, we're talking about teens and Mitt Romney got 27 percent and that was awful.

LEMON: How many -- Larry, how many votes actually change after the debates or is this just more about reinforcing what people are already thinking about their candidates?

LEMON: Don, you've got it exactly right. A lot of people don't understand, you do not have millions of people changing sides. This is a stark choice. The vast majority of people who will actually vote in this election have already decided.

Now, you can -- you can enthuse people, make them more likely to vote and you can depress people if you have a really bad performance, but after a week or 10 days, the debate effects dissipate.

LEMON: Yes. David, I have to ask you this.

(CROSSTALK)

GERGEN: Yes, there are exceptions to that, Don. There are times when challengers come in and Trump will be in the position as a chal1enger and he's regarded -- as the public basically think Hillary Clinton is going to win this debate. If he were to pull off an unusually good debate, he could potentially change not the number so much but the dynamics. So you have a shift back a little bit towards Trump and that would make him much more competitive.

On the other hand, if she puts him away Monday night it's going to be very, very hard for him to win and it would be a significant victory for Hillary Clinton if she puts him away.

LEMON: Always informing and always been a pleasure, David Gregory -- David Gergen -- excuse me, why do I do that -- thank you, David Gergen.

GERGEN: OK. David Gregory would be insulted.

LEMON: No, not at all. Thank you. You're both very smart and very handsome gentlemen. I appreciate it. And Larry Sabato, as well.

When we come right back, much more on our breaking news. A fourth night of protest in Charlotte tonight. And let's -- and we want to tell that you special time Sunday night at 11 o'clock we're going to preview the first presidential debate on Monday, so make sure you join us here for CNN Tonight. We'll be right back.

[23:00:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)