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Don Lemon Tonight
Paul Ryan Won't Defend or Campaign With Trump; Trump Insists Tape Were Just Locker Room Talk; Interview with Billy Baldwin; A Fly, A Sniff, and a Red Sweater at the Debate. Aired 11p-12a ET
Aired October 10, 2016 - 23:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[23:00:10] DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: So much for apologizing.
This is CNN TONIGHT. I'm Don Lemon.
Donald Trump is threatening more personal attacks on Hillary Clinton if any more damaging tapes of him come out. And he says he'll throw her in jail if he's elected.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We are going to get a special prosecutor to figure this deal out.
(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)
TRUMP: I have never been so ashamed of this country as what's gone on with Hillary Clinton.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: But good news tonight for Clinton. She is leading Trump in a new national poll by 11 points.
A lot to get to in the hour ahead. I'm so glad you joined us. I want to begin, though, with Mark Preston, CNN Politics executive director. Betsy McCaughey is here, the former lieutenant governor of New York who is a Trump supporter. It's always lively when Betsy stops by. And Republican strategist Tara Setmayer, who is, you know, she's just a wall flower, she won't say how she really feels.
BETSY MCCAUGHEY, TRUMP SUPPORTER: I know that's not true.
TARA SETMAYER, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: No, no.
(LAUGHTER)
LEMON: Thank you, all, for coming on this evening.
Mark, I'm going to start with you. Explain what happened today when both Paul Ryan and the RNC held calls about Donald Trump.
MARK PRESTON, CNN POLITICS EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR: Don, we often talk about the schism that is now part of the Republican Party where it's being fractured because of the Donald Trump candidacy as well as other factors. Well, that was on full display today when we saw Paul Ryan, speaker of the House, say in a telephone call with his fellow Republicans that he's now just going to focus on the congressional majority. He is no longer going to go out and defend Donald Trump. He is no longer going to go out and talk about Donald Trump. And get this, he is telling them, you do what you need to do to try to win in November.
LEMON: Margaret Hoover, who's a Republican strategist, says she believes that Paul Ryan is saying in this that Donald Trump can't win, that he doesn't believe that Donald Trump can win. So how are voters and down party candidates, Tara, supposed to read these mixed messages?
SETMAYER: Yes, it's difficult. Paul Ryan tried to thread a really political -- tight political needle here with his support of Donald Trump months ago. I cautioned that, you know, as a lifelong Republican and conservative, I cautioned Paul Ryan about doing this, this full throttled embrace of Donald Trump back in May, when he had concerns about it. I warned him, I said, if you do this, you're going to -- you're going to own all of the baggage and all of the baggage we know about and all the baggage we don't know about that is out there, once the fall comes around of Donald Trump. And then what do you do?
This is exactly the nightmare scenario that a lot of us were concerned about. The problem right now is that Donald Trump's comments, his behavior is indefensible. So the Democrats are shrewdly taking those things and they are juxtaposing it with Republican candidates and they're associating every single Republican with those comments and forcing them to say, so are you condoning sexual assault?
LEMON: OK.
SETMAYER: And that is -- it's threatening the House majority now. It was a 3 percent generic ballot for Democrats before, it's up to 7 percent now. They see the writing on the wall. And they're concerned.
LEMON: All right. Before I get to Betsy, do you think that he can win? Do you think Paul Ryan believes he can't win, at least that's what he's saying?
SETMAYER: That's correct.
LEMON: OK.
SETMAYER: This is -- the exact thing happened in 1996 with Bob Dole where Haley Barbour came out and around the exact same time now, and the polls were almost identical, it was 52 to 38, Bill Clinton was winning, and they realized they needed to protect the majority. Used to same language. He said we can't have the Democrats have a blank check, so we have to protect our majorities to balance it out so this has happened before.
LEMON: So, Betsy, let me guess. You think that's absolutely wrong and you think all the people who came out especially on Friday and Saturday, saying, we can't support Donald Trump. You think they're already regretting it?
MCCAUGHEY: I think that they confirm the impression of so many Americans that professional politicians are just like rats fleeing at the first sign of trouble. And that's exactly what they were. So they may be hurt by this. We'll see.
LEMON: The first sign of trouble?
MCCAUGHEY: At the first sign of trouble, right.
SETMAYER: It's not the first sign.
(LAUGHTER)
SETMAYER: How many? How many times have we --
(CROSSTALK)
MCCAUGHEY: But I want to make another point, too.
LEMON: Go ahead.
MCCAUGHEY: Because I abhor lewd and body language. I don't listen to rap music. I don't like that kind of thing. But Hillary Clinton when she expresses --
LEMON: Wait, you said --
MCCAUGHEY: Body language.
LEMON: I thought you said rap music?
MCCAUGHEY: I did. I mentioned rap music because it's full of the F word, the P word, the B word, the A word, the -- all those things.
LEMON: I don't think anybody -- listen, I got to say. I don't think anybody likes that, but those people are not running for president.
MCCAUGHEY: Yes. But I wanted to point something out.
LEMON: OK. Go ahead.
MCCAUGHEY: And which is that Hillary Clinton expresses that she finds the language on that bus horrific, but in fact she likes language like this, quote, "I came to slay bitch, when he F me good, I take his ass to Red Lobster."
LEMON: Did she say that?
MCCAUGHEY: That happens to be a line from Beyonce.
SETMAYER: Beyonce said that.
LEMON: Yes, I know. That's Beyonce's --
MCCAUGHEY: Her favorite performer whom she says she idolizes and would like to imitate.
(LAUGHTER)
[23:05:03] MCCAUGHEY: So you know what I'm saying to you? There's a lot of hypocrisy.
LEMON: OK.
MCCAUGHEY: In Hillary Clinton expressing such horror.
LEMON: OK, Betsy.
MCCAUGHEY: For what happened on the bus.
LEMON: Go ahead.
SETMAYER: You could put that around and say that's hypocrisy on the part of Republicans who are now -- continue to embrace Donald Trump because we were supposed to be the party of moral values, of family values, and I know -- I've personally spoken out against lyrics like that.
MCCAUGHEY: Good.
SETMAYER: I actually wrote something about it. I've done that for years. And so where -- so how do Republicans maintain that moral high ground if they're saying, I know you are, but what am I? They're worse.
LEMON: As much as I love hearing you --
(CROSSTALK)
MCCAUGHEY: I don't like it either. But I'm questioning Hillary Clinton.
SETMAYER: But you're willing to accept it.
LEMON: As much as I really liked hearing you say those -- read those lyrics --
MCCAUGHEY: I got (INAUDIBLE).
LEMON: Beyonce's lyrics --
PRESTON: Can we try it again?
SETMAYER: No.
MCCAUGHEY: "I came to slay bitch, when he F me good, I take his ass to Red Lobster."
SETMAYER: My god.
LEMON: Yes. Again, so -- as much as I like hearing you say that, Hillary Clinton did not say those words. Donald Trump actually said the words.
MCCAUGHEY: No. But she likes to listen to them.
LEMON: Right. And that's -- as my mom would say, that's a horse of another color.
SETMAYER: You're not advocating sexual assault either.
LEMON: Here's what Hillary Clinton actually said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: And last night he doubled down on his excuse saying that well, it's just locker room banter. You know what's happened today, which is so interesting, is that a lot of athletes and coaches from the NBA, from Major League Baseball, from the NFL, and more have been coming forward, tweeting. They've been saying no, that's not what happens in our locker rooms.
And I just happen to think that our athletes and our coaches know a lot more about what happens in our locker rooms than Donald Trump does.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: So, Betsy, what --
MCCAUGHEY: That's the speech police.
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: But what are you saying? There are a lot of athletes who are coming forward, saying that.
MCCAUGHEY: Attitude that she's going to tell Americans what they should say and what they shouldn't say. It's very interesting to watch Hillary Clinton redefine her campaign. It's not about boosting the economy, it's not about defeating ISIS. It's a referendum on political correctness. That's what Hillary --
LEMON: But he's also talking about the same things today.
SETMAYER: Right.
LEMON: He's not talking policy, he keeps going over and over this.
MCCAUGHEY: And the voters are getting cheated.
LEMON: Do you -- don't you wish that he would --
MCCAUGHEY: Yes.
LEMON: Yes.
MCCAUGHEY: Yes, because he has an excellent --
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: An honest moment --
SETMAYER: Then why doesn't he do it?
LEMON: So why doesn't he?
SETMAYER: Why doesn't he do it? Because I don't think he really wants to win. He's running a tabloid campaign --
MCCAUGHEY: Let's play shrink here.
SETMAYER: Right. No, it's pretty obvious.
MCCAUGHEY: No.
SETMAYER: He's incapable of empathy. He's running a tabloid campaign. He positioned his campaign chairman, Stephen Bannon, who wants to take down the party establishment, he revels in it, and this is what he's been fighting to do, the direction he's taking the country in, and it is a sad state of affairs.
(CROSSTALK)
SETMAYER: We deserve better candidates than both of them.
MCCAUGHEY: One of the best lines last night was when he did say he would call for an independent special prosecutor, and here's why that's important. Hillary Clinton denied last night that she had erased those 33,000 e-mails after she was subpoenaed to provide them.
LEMON: She didn't personally erase them.
MCCAUGHEY: But political rules, her statement last night in the debate is false.
SETMAYER: It's actually where we agree.
MCCAUGHEY: Yes. And --
SETMAYER: I don't think there's a problem with the special prosecutor. But the throwing her in jail part and threatening that she would be in jail --
MCCAUGHEY: Well, he was just expressing his opinion.
SETMAYER: Very totalitarian.
MCCAUGHEY: She said he was unfit, he said she belongs in jail. He didn't say he was going to throw in jail.
LEMON: Is that how you see it? What does that tell you, Mark?
MCCAUGHEY: But the fact is --
(CROSSTALK) MCCAUGHEY: An independent special prosecutor is the right thing to do because so many Americans look at these fancy people like Hillary Clinton who always seem to allude the law, who don't play by the rules. That is their complaint, that the Washington establishment gets away with murder and other people who ignore --
LEMON: OK. Wait a minute. You said the fancy people like Hillary Clinton. You don't think Donald Trump is fancy?
MCCAUGHEY: He doesn't ignore the subpoena.
LEMON: He has his own plane. Gold plated --
MCCAUGHEY: Right. I'm just saying I like the idea that people in Washington get away with things that -- you know, if you or I were subpoenaed to provide material to Congress and we didn't do it, we would go to jail.
SETMAYER: I mean, that's partially --
MCCAUGHEY: I'm telling you --
(CROSSTALK)
SETMAYER: That part of it is true, except that Donald Trump is a hypocrite on a lot of these things, given the way that he uses our laws and twists them, and you know, the fact that he -- good for him that he's not paying federal taxes, but then don't sit there and say that --
MCCAUGHEY: I can defend that one, too.
SETMAYER: I'm sure. I'm sure you can.
LEMON: Shocking.
SETMAYER: Yes.
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: I want to talk about this. I want to talk about this particular --
MCCAUGHEY: Why don't you pay what you usually owe?
LEMON: Strategy.
SETMAYER: Then he should release his taxes like Warren Buffett did.
LEMON: They're having a good time over there. Betsy is going to defend whatever --
PRESTON: Red wine please.
(LAUGHTER)
LEMON: But is that -- is this strategy working for him?
PRESTON: No. No, it's not working for him. And listen, there are two different arguments. We can take the Hillary Clinton argument and we can talk about all the problems that she has because she does have problems, there's no question about it. But the Donald Trump situation right now is that he is sucking up all the oxygen because he's the one who's inflicting all his -- all the wounds upon himself.
[23:10:01] He could be doing 100 times better. A lot better. Had he listen to some of his strategists that are a little bit more mainstream. He acknowledged last night that he's a politician. Well, he doesn't act like a politician. If he does act like a politician, he acts like a very rouge politician, though a successful politicians are those who listen to advisers, who know what they're talking about, whether that is about politics or whether that's about policy, and I know a lot of people hate Washington, I get it, but there are a lot of smart people in Washington. And they are the ones that keep the government running.
LEMON: Hold on. Hold your horses, though. Mark, now I know what I wanted to ask you because is he not listening to the people or are we giving the people who are advising him way too much credit?
PRESTON: I think that he's probably listening to the people that he shouldn't be listening to and there are people internally, and we won't get into any names because it would people in a difficult position.
LEMON: Who on earth would say, bring those four women from Bill Clinton's past --
SETMAYER: Stephen Bannon and Bossie.
PRESTON: Stephen Bannon.
LEMON: Well, how does that work in any --
SETMAYER: It doesn't. That's what I say, Don. He doesn't really want to win. This is about doubling down on this strategy of being a tabloid candidate and, you know, preparing for -- this brand or whatever he's going to do after the fact.
MCCAUGHEY: That's not healthy.
SETMAYER: Because how does bringing those -- bringing up 20-year-old sex scandals with Bill Clinton, which were, you know, a shame.
LEMON: Where in most cases --
SETMAYER: How is that going to help women --
LEMON: Women are seen as the victim in those cases and Hillary Clinton will be seen --
SETMAYER: Hillary Clinton's approval rating went up 20 percentage points during Monica Lewinsky. (CROSSTALK)
MCCAUGHEY: I saw one -- I came in tonight, just before I came in here. A great ad about how much money working people are going to save with Donald Trump's tax plan, and I thought, I wish everybody had heard about that.
LEMON: So what are you --
SETMAYER: That's Donald Trump's fault.
LEMON: So what do you say to him, Betsy? Betsy, you're a Trump surrogate. And they talked about taxes last night, he admitted in some way that he hadn't paid taxes in almost 20 years. But what do you say to him and his advisers who are saying, it's OK to bring up Juanita Broaddrick, it's OK to bring up Paula Jones, it's OK to have them, when most of America, even staunch Trump supporters are saying, what are you doing? What do you say to him?
MCCAUGHEY: I think his feelings were hurt. I'm just expressing my viewpoint here.
LEMON: Yes.
MCCAUGHEY: I haven't talked to him about it. But I think his feelings were hurt that everybody, he said I've been under assault for 48 hours from the media because of these things I said on a bus. Of course they were unforgivable.
SETMAYER: Give me a break.
MCCAUGHEY: But they were so many years ago, and look what Bill Clinton did.
LEMON: OK -- OK, hold on, hold on, Tara.
(CROSSTALK)
SETMAYER: Did you just say his feelings were hurt?
LEMON: Yes.
SETMAYER: Donald Trump, Mr. big bad bully billionaire from New York --
MCCAUGHEY: I'm saying -- well, that's what I'm --
(CROSSTALK)
MCCAUGHEY: That's what I think is happening.
LEMON: Well, she has a great point.
SETMAYER: He was upset that he got caught and that people were abandoning him and he had to be held accountable for his own actions, which he never -- takes responsibility for. LEMON: On the temperament, I'll give Mark the last word. But on the
temperament thing, you're saying your feelings are hurt. If you're the leader of the free world and your feelings are hurt, don't you just say, I'm above the fray, I'm going to move on. Like when he asked -- when he asked Hillary Clinton about -- when he brought up the affairs in the '90s and Hillary Clinton just moved on and turned and pivoted right to policy? Isn't that what a leader should do? I'm not just saying Hillary Clinton, instead of saying my feelings are hurt and so I'm going to get you, you say, OK, fine, but let's talk about my tax policy.
MCCAUGHEY: That's what he did.
LEMON: Yes.
MCCAUGHEY: He just couldn't --
PRESTON: I think we should give Betsy credit for telling what she thinks.
LEMON: No, she's very on it.
PRESTON: But also it is putting aside all the other liabilities and situations he has created for himself, that is a big liability for him and that's why a lot of people don't think he has the temperament to be the commander-in-chief because of things like that.
LEMON: Yes.
(CROSSTALK)
SETMAYER: Instead of being --
MCCAUGHEY: Hillary Clinton's tax plan was going to push us into a recession very fast. Raising corporate taxes. The Fed has warned will push us --
SETMAYER: Probably, but it's --
LEMON: And that's where --
SETMAYER: Republicans lose the House and Senate, you can forget about having checks and balances, and Donald Trump's reaction to what was going on instead of taking personal responsibility was to exploit the emotional vulnerability of those women for a political stunt.
LEMON: Well, I just have to say --
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: When you're talking about the tax policy and all, that's where the conversation should be.
MCCAUGHEY: Yes, 100 percent.
LEMON: Unfortunately that's not where -- and Betsy, that's why I like having you on. You don't take it personally. You realize this is not personal. So thank you, Betsy. Thank you, Tara. And you of course.
Just ahead, Donald Trump dismissing those lewd comments about women which were caught on video as locker room talk and he tried to pivot away from this conversation at last night's debate. Did he succeed?
We're going to talk about it next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[23:17:46] LEMON: Donald Trump dismissing these lewd comments about women which were caught on video as locker room talk.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She used to be great. She's still very beautiful.
TRUMP: I moved on her actually. You know she was down on Palm Beach. I moved on her and I failed. I'll admit it. I did try and (EXPLETIVE DELETED) her. She was married.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's huge news there.
TRUMP: No, no. Nancy. No, this was -- and I moved on her very heavily. In fact, I took her out furniture shopping. She wanted to get some furniture. I said, "I'll show you where they have some nice furniture." I took her out furniture -- I moved on her like a bitch, but I couldn't get there. And she was married. Then all of a sudden I see her. She's now got the big phony tits and everything. She's totally changed her looks.
BILLY BUSH, FORMER ACCESS HOLLYWOOD HOST: Sheesh, your girl is hot as shit. In the purple.
TRUMP: Whoa.
BUSH: Yes.
TRUMP: Whoa.
BUSH: Yes, the Donald has scored. Whoa, my man. Wait, wait, you got to look --
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: Look at you. You're a pussy. Maybe it's a different one.
BUSH: It better not be the publicist. No, it's her. It's her.
TRUMP: Yes, that's her, with the gold. I've got to use some Tic Tacs just in case I start kissing her. You know, I'm automatically attracted to beautiful -- I just start kissing them. It's like a magnet. Just kiss. I don't even wait. And when you're a star, they let you do it. You can do anything.
BUSH: Whatever you want.
TRUMP: Grab them by the pussy. I can do anything.
BUSH: Yes, those legs. All I can see is the legs.
TRUMP: It looks good.
BUSH: Come on, shorty.
TRUMP: Oh, nice legs, huh?
BUSH: Get out of the way, honey.
TRUMP: Those good legs.
BUSH: Go ahead.
TRUMP: It's always good if you don't fall out of the bus. Like Ford. Gerald Ford, remember?
BUSH: Down below. Pull the handle.
TRUMP: Hello. How are you? Hi.
ARIANNE ZUCKER, ACTRESS: Hi, Mr. Trump. How are you?
TRUMP: Nice seeing you. Terrific.
ZUCKER: Nice to meet you.
TRUMP: Terrific. You know Billy Bush?
ZUCKER: How are you?
BUSH: Hello. Nice to see you. How are you doing, Arianne?
ZUCKER: I'm doing very well, thank you. Are you ready to be a soap star?
TRUMP: We're ready. Let's go. Make me a soap star.
BUSH: How about a little hug for the Donald? He just got off the bus.
ZUCKER: Would you like a little hug, darling?
TRUMP: OK. Absolutely. Melania said this was OK.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: I'm going to bring in Andre Bauer, the former lieutenant governor of South Carolina who is supporting Trump, political contributor Hilary Rosen, a Clinton supporter and contributor, Lahnee Chen, the former policy director for Mitt Romney.
HILARY ROSEN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: It's like a hostage video to keep having to watch it over and over and over again. [23:20:02] LEMON: And you know, every single -- actually the more you
watch it, the more it sort of make you cringe because I'm wondering after everything, all that has been said, and let see, I'll Lahnee. Lahnee is someone who's, you know, not committed on this panel. Is it --
ROSEN: We all need to be committed.
LEMON: What is -- what is the -- who is the real Donald Trump, when he says legs, look at that, grab them by whatever, and then he goes, hi, how are you? So who is the real person here?
LAHNEE CHEN, CNN POLITICAL CONTRIBUTOR: Well, this is part of the problem that Donald Trump is having now, is because their argument seems to be that the Donald Trump you see in the video is not the Donald Trump of today. Now that is a fine argument until there's another video or until he says something off color, or until he does something or behaves in a way that suggests in fact that is the real Donald Trump. And I think if you look at his answer in the debate last night, which was basically, you know, this was locker room talk.
LEMON: Let's play it.
CHEN: I'm pretty sure --
LEMON: Let's play it. And then we'll discuss.
CHEN: Yes. This is Donald Trump.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON COOPER, DEBATE MODERATOR: Are you saying that what you said on that bus 11 years ago, that you did not actually kiss women without consent or grope women without consent?
TRUMP: I have great respect for women. Nobody has more respect for women than I do.
COOPER: So for the record, you're saying you've never did that?
TRUMP: I said things, and frankly you hear these things I said. And I was embarrassed by it. But I have tremendous respect for women.
COOPER: Have you ever done those things?
TRUMP: And women have respect for me. And I will tell you -- no, I have not.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Continue, Lahnee.
CHEN: Yes, I was just saying, you know, and then you hear that answer last night which suggests that he sees the dialogue in that video as, you know, just kind of banter. This is just kind of what guys do. So I think it's very difficult for the Trump campaign and for Donald Trump to make the argument or say that somehow he's a different guy now because everything that he said, every explanation he's had, every apology about the video, suggests that this is who Donald Trump is, this is just who this guy is, and Americans have to accept that's who he is when they go to the ballot box.
LEMON: Hilary, he says that he's not that guy any more, you know, but then there's Judge Curiel, there's the Khan family. And then on a similar level, there's, you know, Alicia Machado which he talked about and said, you know, go watch her sex tape and whatever. That's who he was just a couple of days ago, or even weeks ago, but now he's all of a sudden different than this videotape. So what is --
ROSEN: I thought Hillary Clinton in the debate did a good job putting this all in context, that this is not just one thing he needs to apologize for, that there's sort of this litany of uncontrolled misogyny, sexism, racism, that all comes out of this kind of, you know, need to belittle other people and objectify women.
You know, and "USA Today" had a interesting article today that he's subjected to -- he's the subject of something like more than 20 lawsuits around sexual harassment. Firing women who aren't good looking enough, you know, who haven't met some standard of what he thinks. Firing women who are pregnant because he doesn't like pregnant women on the job. I mean, this just goes on and on and on with Donald Trump and his history.
And I don't think that he's successful when he tries to say this isn't me. He's probably more successful saying, you know, look, this is me, but it's not the most important thing for you guys to worry about. That would be more honest at least. I think this back and forth about, well, I don't care if I do this, or you know, don't look at me, look at Bill Clinton, neither of those things work.
LEMON: Andre Bauer, I want you to take a listen. This is what our KFILE team found over the weekend, another piece of tape from Donald Trump on the "Howard Stern Show."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: My daughter is beautiful, Ivanka. She --
HOWARD STERN, RADIO HOST: By the way, your daughter --
TRUMP: She's beautiful.
STERN: Can I say this, a piece of ass?
TRUMP: Yes.
STERN: Did your daughter get breast implants?
TRUMP: No.
STERN: No. You mean that?
TRUMP: No. No, she didn't. I mean, I would know if she did. The answer is no. Why, did she look a little more stacked?
STERN: She looks -- she looks more voluptuous than ever.
TRUMP: No, she didn't get them.
STERN: And she got thinner and --
TRUMP: She's actually always been very voluptuous.
STERN: It's unbelievable.
TRUMP: She's tall, she's almost 6'0" tall.
STERN: She is some catch.
TRUMP: She's been -- you know, she's an amazing beauty.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Andre, what's your response to that?
ANDRE BAUER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: This guy's been a TV guy all his life. I mean, he's always chummed it up. He's always -- when he ran "The Apprentice," part of his showmanship was talking up whatever crowd he was around.
ROSEN: Andre, come on.
LEMON: But, Andre --
ROSEN: If anyone -- Andre, you're the epitome of a gentleman, but if anyone talked that way about your daughter you'd smack them in the jaw.
CHEN: Exactly.
ROSEN: You know you would. That's the most appalling thing that he just sort of takes it as like, yes, check out my daughter.
BAUER: Hilary, Hilary --
ROSEN: You would never stand for that, Andre. You would never stand for that. If anyone did that and talked about my daughter that way, they wouldn't be standing there for two more minutes.
BAUER: Thanks for letting me have a couple of minutes here.
LEMON: Go ahead, Andre.
BAUER: You jumped on right away before I can finish one sentence. Well, I mean, it's typical. This is exactly typical. Everyone in this panel goes, it's pick the issue and just pound, pound, pound.
LEMON: But, Andre, you're not responding to the question.
[23:25:01] BAUER: Whoever the Republican is. Whether it was Mitt Romney. Whether it was -- well, I wanted to, but I never got half a sentence out.
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: Andre, you're saying this is typical. They're talking about --
ROSEN: I'm sorry. My mistake.
LEMON: That's fine. And I'll let you -- he's talking about his own daughter and someone's calling her a nice or hot piece of A. That's really the question.
BAUER: Again --
ROSEN: Yes, and you're giving a Michael Dukakis answer.
BAUER: I'm not -- what I'm telling you is, is we keep talking about this. The news media gets to decide whatever they want to talk about and they keep driving it toward this. We could be talking about the debate right now and the substantive differences between the candidates. This was a story that came out on Friday. We're now Monday night. So talk about it.
Donald Trump didn't decide to talk about it. The news decided to talk about it. Instead of deciding, let's inform the voters of the differences where there were policy disagreements, whether people's lives were ultimately affected, whether it be through job creation, economic development, safety, borders, whatever, we're not discussing that because the policy now is driven on sensationalism, how can we get the voters riled up over this.
We could go through Hillary's past where she talks to Wall Street bankers and she has a different policy than what she tells the voters.
LEMON: Andre, I'm going to be honest with you.
BAUER: Come on.
LEMON: The reason we're talking about this is because your candidate is Donald Trump. And had he not --
BAUER: Well, we should be talking about Hillary Clinton.
LEMON: Hold on. The media did not go in and say, talk to Howard Stern so that we can use your words against you in the future. Donald Trump as a grown man went in to talk to Howard Stern and did an interview where he allowed --
BAUER: That was a news story on Friday.
LEMON: Hold on. Where he allowed -- OK, so you could say, e-mails were a news story a year ago after the -- after she spent 11 hours on Capitol Hill. You could say the same thing --
BAUER: But how many days --
(CROSSTALK)
BAUER: We're not going to talk about the debate?
ROSEN: It's because he said this isn't me. It isn't me. It's a one- time thing.
BAUER: We're not going to discuss the debate now?
LEMON: That is -- it is part of --
BAUER: How many days can we talk -- how many days are we going to talk about it?
ROSEN: He almost dares people to bring this up.
LEMON: Go ahead, go ahead.
BAUER: Well, why aren't we talking about Hillary's -- when we talk about Hillary's speeches? Why haven't we discussed --
LEMON: We are talking about Hillary's speeches. You're just not in that particular segment where we're talking about it, but go on.
BAUER: Well, I just think that with 30 days to go, the voters want to hear about the difference in the debate, to analyze that, to talk about that, where there were really differences. This was a story that came out on Friday, and for a four-day story I just think is a long time, when we have so few days left to really get into policy differences.
LEMON: Yes, Andre, listen, I understand what you're saying. We just spent, you know, four segments in the show before this one, and this one, two segments, one with Betsy, talking about the debate and the differences and all of that, there's lots to discuss here. This one, we're talking about in the context of videos that Donald Trump did on his own or audiotape that he did on his own. That's a particular segment that you were brought in to talk about. It's not that we're not -- we're ignoring those other things. That's just that you were talked about. What you're here to talk about. Go ahead.
ROSEN: But I also don't -- I don't think the media -- I don't think the media can -- you know, needs to own this one, Don, because I -- you know, Donald Trump today, he had all day long to go out there on the campaign trail and talk about, you know, issues or what he wants to do in Syria or how he wants to hug up his bro, you know, Vladimir Putin, or, you know, even about the difference between he and Hillary Clinton's Supreme Court nominees, and what does he do? He trashes Bill Clinton. He's obsessed with Paul Ryan.
LEMON: OK.
ROSEN: I mean, he is bringing this on himself.
LEMON: Yes.
ROSEN: He's saying, the video, you know, that you said about me is a one-time thing, and then, of course, more video comes out. So Donald Trump can't dig himself out of this himself. So why would anyone else stop talking about it when he doesn't stop talking about it?
LEMON: We'll continue on right after the break. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[23:32:27] LEMON: Back with me now, Andre Bauer, Hilary Rosen and Lahnee Chen.
So, Andre, here's your chance to talk policy and about the debate last night. Trump says he wants to talk about policy. Let's listen to this moment from the debate last night. This is moderator Martha Raddatz. This is the second attempt at a foreign policy question about Syria.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARTHA RADDATZ, DEBATE MODERATOR: Mr. Trump, let me repeat the question. If you were president, what would you do about Syria and the humanitarian crisis in Aleppo? And I want to remind you what your running mate said. He said provocations by Russia need to be met with American strength and that if Russia continues to be involved in air strikes along with the Syrian government forces of Assad, the United States of America should be prepared to use military force to strike the military targets of the Assad regime.
TRUMP: OK, he and I haven't spoken, and I disagree. I disagree.
RADDATZ: You disagree with your running mate?
TRUMP: I think you need to knock out ISIS. Right now, Syria is fighting ISIS. We have people that want to fight both at the same time. But Syria is no longer Syria. Syria is Russia and it's Iran who she made strong, and Kerry and Obama, made into a very powerful nation and a very rich nation, very, very quickly. Very, very quickly.
RADDATZ: What do you think will happen if Aleppo falls?
TRUMP: I think Aleppo is a disaster, humanitarian wise --
RADDATZ: What do you think will happen if it falls?
TRUMP: I think that it basically has fallen.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Andre, besides the fact that he threw his running mate under the bus, does this sound like someone who knows what they're talking about, who has a plan?
BAUER: I actually thought that he did a great job. I was actually impressed that he actually had opinionated and facts that he gave in so many of those answers. I thought he really dove into some of them a lot deeper than I thought he had actually the background on. And the fact that they disagree, I don't have a problem with that. They're both independent thinker and when somebody runs on a ticket, that doesn't mean you adopt every single one of their policies, and I think when they get -- after they're elected they'll work together with people that are actually more informed than they are. That specialize in this every day. And as leaders, you formulate the best plan of attack. That doesn't mean on every issue, you have to say we're lockstep together. Because we know Mike Pence is a very different man than Donald Trump.
LEMON: So Lahnee --
(CROSSTALK)
ROSEN: It' pretty relevant, though, right now. I mean, the fact that they disagree is a little disconcerting when you have just this week Vladimir Putin is, you know, threatening to create a permanent battalion in Syria, and -- so which is it going to be? Are we going to push back on his aggression, or are we going to let Vladimir Putin do whatever he wants and just focus on ISIS?
[23:35:06] I mean, you know, I think that we don't really know what a Trump administration will bring.
CHEN: But to be fair, Hilary --
LEMON: But didn't he -- Lahnee, didn't he go on to pivot away from Aleppo? I think he talked about Iraq or whatever.
CHEN: Yes.
LEMON: What did you think of his answer? About Mosul?
CHEN: Well, yes. I didn't think the answers were particularly well informed. I also think Hillary Clinton didn't really illustrate last night how she'd be all that different from the Obama administration's current approach with respect either to ISIS or to Syria.
I think Donald Trump -- you know, the issue with Donald Trump throwing Pence under the bus is that Pence was articulating a point of view that I think a lot of Republicans have about what has to happen with respect to U.S. policy toward Syria going-forward. The question is, how does Trump disagree? And I think what Trump needs to start to do a little bit, if he wants to talk about policy, if he's serious about talking about policy, is he does need to say, look, here's where I differ from my running mate, and here are the two or three things I would do with respect to Syria.
He keeps talking about knocking out ISIS. It's still not entirely clear what he would do to pursue that strategy. So again, I think he needs to be a little bit clearer about that, and if he's going to say I disagree with Mike Pence, I think he has to be able to tell us how he disagrees and then they have to get on the same page at some point.
ROSEN: And it is relevant that every time he articulates a policy in the Middle East, he ends up essentially parroting Vladimir Putin, where as you said, Lahnee, I think the right thing is that, you know, actually conservatives are pretty adamantly against what Putin is doing and against the aggression that he's been owing. So which is it?
LEMON: Let's bring it back now to, you know, what's happening within Republican Party, with Paul Ryan, with Reince Priebus and on and on and on. I want to put up this poll. This is an NBC-"Wall Street Journal" poll taken after the release of this tape. It shows that Clinton leading by 11 points.
Does this support Paul Ryan's conclusion that Trump's campaign is beyond saving, Hilary Rosen?
ROSEN: Look, I wish that it were true, that Trump's campaign is beyond saving. I'm not a pundit today who's like taking a victory lap. You know, we have several weeks to go before this election, we cannot take anything for granted. You know, we have seen this guy rise from the ashes before and so I think that what Paul Ryan is doing is saying, I don't really care, I'm going to focus on our caucus first, and we're going to distance ourselves just to play it safe, but I don't think that means that Donald Trump is, you know, all of a sudden has no chance to be president. I think it means that Paul Ryan is looking for money and resources to support his own caucus.
LEMON: Andre, what do --
CHEN: Don, I don't --
LEMON: Andre, what do you think of this? Because, you know, many people have counted out Donald Trump before, and have been quite wrong about it. Do you think that the -- that Paul Ryan is saying that Donald Trump can't win?
BAUER: No, I think Hilary Rosen hit it pretty well. I think Paul Ryan's number one job is to make sure that they stay in the majority in the House, and that's his number one objective. If Donald Trump wins, that's great, too. But he's got to first and foremost make sure he maintains the House, and so I think he's hunkering down and focusing on that, but I think in the back of his mind he's thinking, do we have another Brexit here? And I think he sees the undercurrent like so many Republicans realize that's out there, that there's a frustration in Washington with the whole bunch and that Donald Trump is turning out unbelievable numbers in these forums that he has, whether it be town halls or whether it be big coliseums.
The numbers are astounding. It's like what President Obama was able to do. And so there is an undercurrent that I don't think shows up in your polling. Quite frankly, I don't think if you've been polled, but I haven't been polled this whole election year. I think there's a lot of folks out there like me.
LEMON: Lahnee, do crowds necessarily equate to, you know, vote, what happens in the voting booth?
CHEN: I think that can be a deceptive measure. I mean, obviously I think all campaigns down in the stretch here are going to be drawing big crowds. That's the nature of the campaign. I think one interesting thing about the poll that came out today is that Donald Trump is lagging Mitt Romney by 20 points amongst Republicans. I think that's part of the problem right there, is that you've got Donald Trump attracting about 70 some odd percent of Republican voters. Mitt Romney won 93 percent. Barry Goldwater won 80 percent, by the way, when he ran.
So I think that the challenge that the Trump campaign has ahead of them, part of it is, they have to -- they have to sort of remind Republicans over and over again, look, this will still be your guy. I think in that sense, the debate last night will be helpful for them.
But Paul Ryan, I really think he surprised me today. I think he's just basically saying, look, I'm going to focus on doing what I need to do, Donald Trump will focus on what he needs to do. And, you know, let's just see what happens as we go down the stretch. There's a bigger question about how this affects Paul Ryan's political future personally. But that's a different issue.
LEMON: All right --
ROSEN: Let's not forget one quick thing, Don, which is that this was the last week essentially that all of these candidates for House and Senate are raising money because if you don't get the money in, in these next several days, you know, you won't be able to get airtime, you won't be able to hire your get-out-the-vote team.
[23:40:06] And so -- everybody is making as dire a consequence a case as they can in order to raise more money this week for their final push. And you know, Republicans are going to try and distance themselves from Donald Trump by going out on their own.
LEMON: I've got to go, Hillary.
ROSEN: Democrats will not let them.
LEMON: Thank you. I appreciate it.
Coming up, many establishment Republicans who endorsed Donald Trump are jumping ship and "Saturday Night Live" jumped on that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CECILY STRONG, ACTRESS: Many Republicans have stood by you through a lot of other scandals but are now pulling their support. People like Senator John McCain.
ALEC BALDWIN, ACTOR: Coward.
STRONG: Carly Fiorina.
A. BALDWIN: She's a four.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: "Saturday Night Live" and a presidential debate this weekend. And it's tough to pick which one had more jaw-dropping moments. Here to discuss now, actor and activist Billy Baldwin.
Thank you for joining us, sir. How are you doing?
BILLY BALDWIN, ACTOR AND ACTIVIST: Thanks for having me. Great to be here again.
LEMON: So what did you think of last night's debate?
B. BALDWIN: I don't know what's worst, the caricature of Donald Trump on "SNL" or Donald Trump's performance in the two debates and his performance on "Access Hollywood" this week.
[23:45:08] I think it's a sad commentary on what's going on currently in American politics. It's -- it's just sad for me because I've been following politics and government since the early '70s and it's just a sad commentary on the electoral process. And it's bad for the American people and it's insulting to the institution of the American presidency to be dragged to the mud like this and taken down to truly an all-time low, at least in my lifetime.
LEMON: OK. So you took it to a serious level. I was going to talk more about "SNL." But let's go. This is --
B. BALDWIN: Let's go. Let's go.
LEMON: This is a very serious -- no, no, let's talk about a serious topic and since you went there. You said you've been following politics. This is John McCain just moments ago speaking out about Donald Trump and why he's had to disavow him, so to speak.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
