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Don Lemon Tonight
America Divided: What Happens After Election Day?; Newt Gingrich Versus Megyn Kelly; Trump Supporters Attack the Media Aired 11p-12a ET
Aired October 25, 2016 - 23:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[23:58:00] DON LEMON, CNN HOST: America divided, what happens the day after Election Day? This is CNN TONIGHT, I'm Don Lemon.
What will a post-Trump GOP look like? Is Hillary Clinton liberal enough for her own party? And with just two weeks ago, the nasty selection in years, what will it take to bring us together, plus, trolled by Trumpters, a conservative writer who was targeted along with his wide and daughter because he refused to support Donald Trump.
Let's get to it with CNN's Politics Executive Editor Mr. Mark Preston.
Mark, good evening to you. Donald Trump insist that he is winning in a lot of battleground states with the polls don't show that, now reports that he is ending big ticket fundraising, what does that tell you?
MARK PRESTON, CNN POLITICS EXECUTIVE EDITOR: Well, a couple of things. One, there are only couple of weeks left in this election and at some point, you got to stop raising money and just you need to go out there and get the votes.
We've seen the same thing actually from Hillary Clinton as well. The story was a little over blown today. They are still going to raise money with the fact to the matter is, you're not going to see Donald Trump or for that matter Hillary Clinton, Don, at this big dollar fundraiser anymore. They going to go out and try to shake hands, hold rallies, try to get out to vote.
LEMON: Donald Trump surrogates also under fire, Mark. I wanted you to take a look at this, this is tonight, Megyn Kelly and Newt Gingrich debating in the coverage of Trump's now infamous "Access Hollywood" take to WikiLeaks, the Clinton's campaign e-mails. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NEWT GINGRICH, FORMER SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: Do you want me to go back to the tapes of your show recently? You are fascinated with sex and you don't care about public policy.
MEGYN KELLY, FOX NEWS: Really?
GINGRICH: You know, that's what I get out of watching you tonight.
KELLY: You know what, Mr. Speaker, I'm not fascinated by sex. But I am fascinated by the protection of women ...
GINGRICH: OK.
KELLY: ... and understanding what we're getting in the oval office.
GINGRICH: OK.
KELLY: And I think the American voters would like to ...
GINGRICH: That's why we're going to send Bill Clinton back to the East Wing, because you are worried about sexual predators.
KELLY: Yeah. Listen, it's not about me, it's about the women and men of America. And the poll number show us, that's the women of America in particular are very concerned about these allegations and, in large part, believe that they are a real issue. And don't dismiss the women summarily.
GINGRICH: Do you want to comment on whether the Clinton ticket has a relationship to a sexual predator?
KELLY: We on "The Kelly File" have covered that story as well, sir.
GINGRICH: I want to hear you say the word. Say Bill Clinton is a sexual predator. I dare you. Say Bill Clinton is a sexual predator.
KELLY: Mr. Speaker, we've covered ...
GINGRICH: Disbarred by the Iowa, by the Arkansas bar.
KELLY: Excuse me, sir.
GINGRICH: Disbarred by the Arkansas bar, $850,000 dollar penalty.
KELLY: Excuse me, sir. We on "The Kelly File" have covered the Clinton matter as well. We've hosted Kathleen Willey ...
GINGRICH: Well, try saying it.
KELLY: ... we've covered the examples of him being accused as well, but he's not on the ticket. And the polls also show that the American public is less interested ...
GINGRICH: He'll be in the -- he'll be in the East Wing.
KELLY: ... in the deeds of Hillary Clinton's husband than they are in the deeds of the man who asks us to make him president, Donald Trump. We're going to have to leave it at that, and you can take your anger issues and spend some time working on them, Mr. Speaker. Thanks for being here.
GINGRICH: And you too, and you too.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Amazing.
PRESTON: Can we rack that and watch that again.
LEMON: I know. Listen, just full disclosure, Megyn and I are friends and that was great, Megyn, so good for you.
So listen, the Trump campaign fighting with Megyn Kelly again, two weeks before the election, is that a really good strategy, Mark?
PRESTON: I mean, can you believe that Newt Gingrich just unraveled on Fox. I've used to know a couple of hours ago.
I mean, that's insane. It just goes, she show you at this point right now, that some of the surrogates specifically Newt Gingrich right here are just losing it right now as they look at this marking challenge that Donald Trump sees to an electoral victory.
I can't believe would go after Megyn Kelly who I don't know personally. But I'm going to tell you, I give her a lot of respect. She is tough. She is smart. And I'd say, if I'm going to go to a rock fight, I want Megyn Kelly, you know, standing next to me. I want her on my side.
The fact is that, I think Newt Gingrich clearly stepped over the line right there. He kept on going. He didn't try to walk it back, just not a very smart move.
LEMON: Thank you, Mark Preston, I appreciate that.
Now, I want to bring in Star Jones, the President of Professional Diversity Network.
[23:05:01] STAR JONES, PRESIDENT PROFESSIONAL DIVERSITY NETWORK: Don, I'm sorry. I was clutching for over watching that. I was setting here, "Really, Newt?"
LEMON: What did you make of them?
JONES: Really, Newt? I mean, between Newt Gingrich, Giuliani and Chris Christie, they've got like the Trifecta of misogyny. And then, you've got Newt Gingrich up here who then he leave his wife while she was dying and married to next wife. Give me a break, Newt. Maybe you pot meet kettle.
LEMON: And the strategy though for fighting was, you know, Megyn Kelly again and sort of, you know, saying that Bill Clinton is going to be back in the - and he's not on the ballot.
JONES: You know, first of all, Bill Clinton was extremely good president. And more importantly, the country was in a very good position when he actually walked away. And also, Bill Clinton was punished for his behavior, everyone who did it.
LEMON: And Newt Gingrich, he was Speaker of the House. JONES: Yes. And he was doing his won stuff at that time. He was always fascinating to me, one, they like to throw President Clinton's behavior and Secretary Clinton's face. I've never seen anything like it before in my entire career, of watching a woman have to descend the behaviors of her husband, because she chose to make her marriage work. That is just outrageous.
And again, it's based to the sexist and misogyny in this election.
LEMON: OK. So, listen, I know that you've been up there on the campaign trail, with Hillary Clinton. She had a strong few weeks, winning all the debates, but taking boos on Obamacare and WikiLeaks some of her stuff as, you know, that question was part of their questioning for Megyn and Newt. Are you concern that those controversies give Trump some momentum heading into these last two weeks?
JONES: You know, I probably would be concern if he knew how to stay on message. If Trump knew how to make the most of an arguments against Secretary Clinton by using some of the things that have been put in the news, but Trump's own arrogance gets underway.
It says, if you steps on his own tongue regularly, there are number of things that came out of his so called policy spit at Gettysburg. That most of the reporters were saying, "Well, really positive things." But the vast majority of the coverage had to do with him basically saying, for the first 100 days of my administration, Trump administration. I'd be going after people who tick me off.
That tells you that he doesn't have the temperament to be president. He doesn't have the temperament to run for president.
LEMON: Yeah.
JENES: If you can't stay focus enough to focus on what people out there actually care about their own lives, their health care, their education for their children, businesses that they can build. If you can't stay focus enough to put that in your speech, you can be president.
LEMON: You know Stanford, Florida, right?
JONES: Oh yes.
LEMON: Yes. Stanford, Florida, it's Trayvon Martin, George Zimmerman. (Inaudible) is coming home, some candy and we know what happened.
Well, Donald Trump said this while in Stanford.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: African-Americans a living in hell in our - in the inter cities. I mean, they're living in hell. You walk to the store for a loaf of bread, you get shot.
We're going to fix our inter cities. We're going to fix.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Do you think he even made the connection there between ...
JONES: OK. No, he didn't make the connection. But what is irritating is, it is just another example of Donald Trump, Donald Trump casting people as others. You know, the African-American, the blacks, they leave here, they do this.
First of all, African-Americans won the width and breadth of the United States of America and across this globe. And for him, to classify everyone as if someone lives in a inter city ghetto, that's the way he's been putting everything as it relates to African- American.
I was actually raised in a housing project in New Jersey. Just because you're raised in a housing project doesn't mean the housing project has raised you. You can accomplish so much in the United States of America and he knows African-Americans who've accomplished so much.
So the fact that he is using this, really speaks to who he is.
LEMON: Most African-Americans by the way don't live in the inter cities. Donald Trump gets closer to the inter cities, then probably most of Americans and most of his supporters, so he should - don't you think that he should know better?
JONES: Sometimes you say, you know better but I'm not sure that he's not staying on message. He is not appealing to me. He's not appealing to you. He's appealing to those people out in that audience who want to hear those kinds of vitriolic statements, who want raw meat.
LEMON: Yeah.
JONES: I don't really think he is trying to get the independents. I think he is trying to shore up his consumer-based for whatever new product he is going to be ...
LEMON: Let's talk about how you know him personally, because you are on Celebrity Apprentice back in 2011. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: The branding absolutely missed the mark. You were in-charge of branding. Star, you're fired.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: What was your experience with Donald Trump?
[23:10:01] JONES: Well, you know, I remember, I've know him longer than that. I'm obviously, I mean, I've known his family for many, many years. On the show, everything is fine, no problem whatsoever. I considered the Trump family to be friendly. But it was 2010, we actually tape it. And if you remember, 2010 is when he started that ...
LEMON: That's my next question.
JONES: And I remember very distinctly, it was also when he was flirting with the idea of running for president. And I have come, I don't know if it was here or somewhere out, and I have talk about, you know, my support for President Obama.
And he called me phone, Trump was annoyed. Star, did you said you never consider voting for me. I said, "Are you out of your mind? I'm a Democratic surrogate and I'm out here working for President Obama. I would never vote for you. Are you out of your mind?"
I mean, I have this actual conversation.
LEMON: Did you confront him? Did you talk to him about the birther issue?
JONES: Oh, definitely.
LEMON: What did you say to him? What did he said?
JONES: Oh definitely. I specifically said to him that when you question the birth place of the African-American president, you are casting him as another (ph).
I remember my language very clearly. And I said, "And it sounds racist, Donald." He said to me, "You know I'm not racist." I said, "Listen, I'm talking about what I know. I'm telling you how it sounds."
And then, I had further conversation with members of his family, and for all practical purposes. He told me and as I told, you're colleague Carol Costello don't (inaudible) me when it comes to - when it comes to about race and gender. You (inaudible) me, oh I'm done with you.
LEMON: So he did. And listen, the night Osama Bin Laden, I have a very contingent interview with Donald Trump over the birther issue. You really saw the lighter day because of what happened. But if he would not do an interview with me to the longest time after that because I confronted him about the birther issues.
JONES: Don, here's a trivia.
LEMON: Yes.
JONES: I was on a plane the night that the President announced ...
LEMON: That they killed him.
JONES: That they had got Osama Bin Laden. That was the middle of the episode that I was Celebrity Apprentice. He was happening simultaneously.
So you think yourself, I'm very appreciative that Celebrity Apprentice allowed me to raise $175,000 for the American Heart Association. That is something that means the world to me, but I've never consider supporting somebody for president because of the issues that matter to me the most, and health care is one of them.
LEMON: By the way, Star Jones, congratulations on the Professional Diversity Networks new partnership with China's Cosmic Forward Limited.
JONES: Very, very, very good. Not bad.
LEMON: Thank you, Star Jones.
JONES: Thank you.
LEMON: I love our conversations, thank you. Come back please.
And we come right back, the conservative who along with his family paid a price for opposing Donald Trump.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[23:16:18] LEMON: Donald Trump denounces journalist as corrupt, phony and low-lifes but some of the supporters have taken it much, much further.
My next guest, unfortunately knows that all too well. He is David French, a senior fellow at the National Review Institute.
Mr. French, thank you for coming on, you're doing OK?
DAVID FRENCH, SENIOR FELLOW, NATIONAL REVIEW INSTITUTE: I'm doing just fine. Thanks for having me.
LEMON: Absolutely. You have been Never Trump from the beginning. Your name has quoted as a possible conservative third party alternative to Donald Trump, which brought you a lot of attention, much of it unfortunately unwelcome. So explain the price the you and your family have paid for opposing Donald Trump.
FRENCH: Well, you know, this goes all the way back to September of 2015 before I'd even given glamour of thought to challenging Donald Trump. I had come out publicly against him, some of the statements Ann Coulter was making when Donald Trump Chief Media Allies that I thought were not even really coded dog-whistles to its called the Alt- Right a group white nationalist and other forms of extremist who've allied themselves with Trump.
And what happen next was pretty unbelievable. My Twitter feed was bombarded with pictures of my youngest daughter who's African- American. We adopted here from Ethiopia, where their face in a gas chamber with Donald Trump in a Nazi uniform about to press to button to kill her, her face photoshopped as a slave. Then, the next day, it got even more disturbing as people found my wife's blog and filled it with images in the comment section with images of black people being killed in gruesome ways. It was terrible and it didn't end then, it didn't end when we block all those people and reported them on Twitter.
Things just kept going and they escalated when my name was floated for the presidency, and to Alt-Right threats and breaking into phone call at one point with my wife and her father. It's really hard to believe when you take it altogether, but he sad thing is, I'm not the only one who's experienced this.
LEMON: You said breaking into a phone call with your wife and his father? What do you mean? How did that happen?
FRENCH: It's a strangest thing. Even the law enforcement is stump. My wife was talking to her father, a person broke into the call, a voice broke into the call. This just happened a couple of weeks ago, talking about Donald Trump, yelling profanities at my wife, yelling profanities at my father-in-law. And it was deeply disturbing ...
LEMON: So the phone call was hacked.
FRENCH: The phone call was hacked somehow. And it lead to an immediate search in my father-in-law's house, was there anyone in there who would pick up the phone, my wife is on an iPhone. We called the law enforcement immediately. They're stump by it.
So it's not just Twitter hate. It's not just people saying mean things on the internet. There are people actually going out and trying to intimidate us, trying to put our family and fear for - because we opposed Donald Trump and because our family is multiracial, which is the anathema to this Alt-Right that warmed its way into the Trump movement.
LEMON: Imagine, you have to - you have to take some precautions now to keep your family safe, correct?
FRENCH: Oh, absolutely. My wife carries a handgun at all times. But, you know, again we're not the only ones. I mean, there are multiple journalists, Erick Erickson who founded RedState, Bethany Mandell, multiple journalists for mainstream media outlets, some of who, have had to install security in their homes. They've had to start carrying a weapon for the first time in their lives.
I wrote what I - about this because I didn't just want people to know my experience or family's experience, I wanted them to know that this is something that is happening in our political right now to those people who defy Donald Trump, particularly those people who maybe are -- have multiracial families or they're Jewish, and enormous amount of anti-Semitic hate is out there.
[23:20:00] My friend Ben Shapiro is receiving enormous of anti-Semitic hate. And so, it's an epidemic and it's deeply corrosive to our political culture. LEMON: David, do you think that Trump campaign and Trump supporters have been done enough in your opinion to encourage a more civil dialogue?
FRENCH: Oh, of course, not. I mean, look, you know, Steve Bannon who was the head of Breitbart is running the Trump campaign now, or CEO in the Trump campaign, and Breitbart what -- didn't just enable the Alt- Right, it is empowered the Alt-Right.
It is published the extended pieces rationalizing the Alt-Right. Some of its writers had been some of the leaders in leading some of these online mobs into attacking and harassing people and that guy is right in the middle of the Trump campaign.
Ann Coulter has consistently stoked the Alt-Right and she's one of his chief advisers and chief media cheerleaders. So have they done? They haven't done anything. They, in fact, the opposite even Donald Trump himself has re-tweeted some of these Alt-Right accounts, which is unconscionable.
So I don't say that Donald Trump is orchestrating any of this. I don't have any evidence of that, but I know his campaign is doing nothing to stand in its way and some top people in his campaign have helped power the Alt-Right itself.
LEMON: David, so many reporter and commentators have receive abuse on social media and that political rallies, yours, of course, yours have been more personal than that.
I'm sure that, you know, what we all worry because we all get, you know, sort of hateful responses from some of these people. Here, take a look this. This is what some CNN camera -- what CNN cameras caught recently at a Trump rally.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You guys are the most biased (inaudible) in the world. Why don't (inaudible). Why don't you cover WikiLeaks? Go after the WikiLeaks.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: So, with that one was a light one because there's another one that I saw that was much more hateful than that where the police had to step in, the security guards.
So, you know, he tells crowds almost daily that the media is crooked and dishonest. Do you hold him responsible in any way?
FRENCH: Well, you know, obviously it's -- there's been a lot of evidence during the course of this campaign that there are instances where he has unsighted violence. There's instances where he has encouraged violence and he certainly stoking rage and fury. I mean, there's no question about that.
Look, I'm the First Amendment absolutist. I believe people have a right to say, even dreadful things so long as they're not direct threats and pure threats. But, you know, what Donald Trump has done I think is deeply irresponsible.
He is an agent of division and I don't say that as an apology for Hillary Clinton. I'm not going to vote for Hillary Clinton. I would never vote for Hillary Clinton and I do think there have been unconscionable acts of left-wing violence in this election season.
What we are facing right now is an election season that I think this is the worse since 1968. It's not as bad as 1968, thankfully, but it's the worse since 1968 and unless our political parties begin to get a handle on this and show real moral leadership, it could get even worse the next time around.
LEMON: All right, good. Let's hope not. David French, stay safe, you and your family. Appreciate it.
FRENCH: Thank you so much.
LEMON: Thank you.
When we come right back, the behavior or some Trump supporters clearly crossing the line, but will it end after Election Day?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[23:27:18] LEMON: Donald Trump blasts the news media day after day at his rallies and some of his supporters have taken it a lot further.
Here to discuss, Angela Rye, the former Executive Director of the Congressional Black Caucus, Corey Lewandowski, Donald Trump's former campaign manager, Trump supporter, Scottie Nell Hughes, and Charles Blow Op-Ed Columnist for the "New York Times." I'm so lucky to have all of you here. Thank you and I'm so glad that you're onset.
So, Corey, you just heard from David French describing how white supremacists he believes have targeted his family for being an anti- Trump conservative. Why do you think this is happening?
COREY LEWANDOWSKI, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think David is probably a little insane to be candid with you. I think it's a complete conjecture in his part. I don't think he has any facts to back this up and look, the Trump rallies ...
LEMON: Do you think he's lying about all of this?
LEWANDOWSKI: Absolutely. I do look -- I think the Trump rallies are passionate and people are upset with broken Washington, D.C., absolutely they are. Does that mean that people are being targeted because they're anti-Trump people and their families are being threatened? I think it's a very serious accusation that we could have filed a police report to back that up or not.
LEMON: We do not have evidence that he is lying, but ...
LEWANDOWSKI: Oh, we don't have any police report to say he's telling the truth.
ANGELA RYE, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: So I'm going to speak to my personal experience and I also speak to one of our CNN colleague's personal experiences.
I have received a threat on Twitter. David French talked about receiving more than just threats online. He talks about threats of physical harm to his family.
I will never say I don't care what side of the ideological spectrum you're on. I'll never say that someone would make something up like that. He's talking about kids who are also at risk because he has a black child.
Tara Setmayer has talked about having to be escorted out of here, we've seen it. Escorted out of here by security every night because of the volumes of threats she gets from Trump supporters.
That doesn't mean you, of course, Corey or anyone affiliated with the campaign, but we have to call it for what it is. These people are not making this up. This isn't a pigment of their imagination. Sure there are a lot of things being imagined in this campaign cycle, but it's not threats of violence.
LEWANDOWSKI: I get the same threats of violence everyday on Twitter. Every time I finish your show, Don, I get, "You're a bad person, Corey. Let's meet somewhere."
(CROSSTALK)
LEWANDOWSKI: Do I take them seriously? Of course, not.
RYE: You should.
LEWANDOWSKI: This is people who want to bully people on the internet because they're weak, feckless, weak cowards who think that it makes them a tough person by bullying somebody online. That's what we need to stop, the cyber bullying.
RYE: But I think he was right.
SCOTTIE NELL HUGHES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Around this table, I guarantee every single one of us have been a subject of hate at some point. There's been a call to my home, my mother actually had to ask one of the women, "You sound like you're demon possessed." And she said, "Yes, I am."
One of our colleagues, Kelly has been called and said, "I hope you die of cancer." They're targeting my house. They have targeted by children. Every single one of us have been targets of hate. It's horrible. It should not be happening. It should not be happening this election season.
So to say that one campaign is responsible one over the other is false. Both sides right now are throwing it at each other. It's not right and it's up to you and I to set the standards tonight with our conversation of being fair and balance in not saying, "Well, one side is doing and not the other."
RYE: Who said that?
HUGHES: It's across the board.
[23:30:04] RYE: Who said that?
HUGHES: It's across the board.
RYE: Who said that? I didn't say anything ...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I do.
RYE: ... that and I was the only person on the other side. I actually said it doesn't matter which side of the ideological spectrum you're on, it should not occur.
HUGHES: So you acknowledge that it's coming off from the Clinton camp, as well.
RYE: I just acknowledge that she -- if he's getting threat he should pay -- he should treated like ...
(CROSSTALK)
HUGHES: There's difference between Twitter and actually calling your own home. And you brought up there (inaudible) can I bring my own health. We're all getting it.
(CROSSTALK)
RYE: You're so interested in having a fight you're missing the fact that I agreed with you, Scottie. So why don't you ...
HUGHES: That (ph) is amazing.
RYE: Good night.
LEMON: So Stephen Bannon says it's the alt-right, and he seem that it is from -- he believes it's from Trump supporters, more so than anyone else.
CHARLES BLOW, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I mean, I do believe they this is true, right, so you do take some cues from the top of the ticket, right? I do believe that probably if you're in the political sphere, you're going to get some of this. Half of all your responses are going to be negative, half would be positive like uncle said, you're never as horrible -- good as they say you are, right. So you just kind of take all of that with a grain of salt.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
BLOW: It is a different caliber thing, however, when it is about your family and it is about home, when you have like, you know, I live in Brooklyn, you can slip something on my door, people have done that before. That is -- when your family is inside behind that door, it's one thing we have tough skin, if you're (inaudible) you have a tough skin. It's different when it becomes about your children. It's different when it becomes about your family. They didn't sign up for that. They sign up because, you know, if you have a spouse they signed up because they love you. Your children didn't have a say in the matter.
I do believe there is a real difference however when it comes from the top of the ticket, when Mr. Trump says -- and it has never apologized of this by the way. In the good old days, they would have dragged him out of here on a stretcher. You know, in the good old days somebody would have punched him in the face, when he says that I will pay legal fees for someone who does something (inaudible). That is a different caliber of conversation. You cannot create a false equivalency and say that any of that has ever come out of Hillary Clinton's mouth. So -- there's just not the same situation.
HUGHES: It came out of John Biden's mouth and now we find out that the reason why these things were happening because of Hillary Clinton's camp or the DNC or possibly coordinating these types of interruptions.
RYE: Let's talk about ...
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: Hang on, hang on, I'll let you guys Joe Biden said to Donald Trump.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Take it behind the wood shed.
HUGHES: Once again, it's the conversation of violence. It's happening on both sides of the aisle.
LEMON: You're right, but listen. Listen, he said to Donald Trump, not to Donald Trump's supporters.
HUGHES: It's still violence.
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: You're absolutely right.
LEWANDOWSKI: Joe Biden is the president of the United States. Is that example that we're going to give to our kids if it's OK we're going to take you behind the shed.
LEMON: I didn't say it was OK. I'm making a distinction that he's talking about Donald Trump. He's not talking about the voters.
LEWANDOWSKI: He's the vice president of United States of America.
LEMON: Right. And Donald Trump is running for the presidency of the United States.
LEWANDOWSKI: He's running for office. You know, what we saw is a fire bomb take place at a Republican office in North Carolina. Someone literally bombed the building, right? We didn't see that take place anywhere else. Someone could have died in that. And what we see today is Joe Biden threatening violence against a candidate running for the highest office in land? Is that -- you're telling me that is -- if my child did that at school, I'd be called to the principal's office right now and said "Your son can't do this anymore, we need to have a sit-down ...
LEMON: We're talking about what Donald Trump said?
LEWANDOWSKI: What Joe Biden said today.
BLOW: I love the fact that you're opening the door of who said what best examples for children. But also if your son said that he was going to grab a -- one of the girls in class by the vagina he would also be taken to the office.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That is violence called sexual assault.
BLOW: Please don't get that confused. If your son made fun of a handicapped classmate, he would also be called into the office.
(CROSSTALK)
BLOW: What I'm telling you, yes absolutely did.
LEWANDOWSKI: So you'll excuse ...
(CROSSTALK)
RYE: Donald do it, Donald do it.
LEMON: One at a time. One at a time.
RYE: No, he said I would do it in high school. He did not play either way. No, no, Corey, you keep going down this line. You're the hypocrisy right here. We're talking about vice president -- I'm going to try vice president Biden saying what he would have done in high school. We're talking about your candidate ...
LEWANDOWSKI: He said today.
RYE: No. What I would do if I were in high school. He did not say I'm going to take it behind right back.
HUGHES: He said it today for the second time.
RYE: Whatever. Whatever. Whatever. Whatever. Whatever.
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: One at a time, please. One at a time.
LEWANDOWSKI: Joe Biden said today.
RYE: Congratulations Corey, he was a grown-as ms man and he's a grown ass man ...
LEWANDOWSKI: Joe Biden is a grown-ass man today. He's the vice president of the United States.
RYE: I'm so glad. And you know what? And guess what? I'm so glad -- I'm so glad that Vice President Biden will be the example that my six-year-old god son will see because your candidate is about to sail into the darkness.
LEWANDOWSKI: So Joe Biden is not a role model ...
RYE: He's absolutely a role model. And you can quote it right it. Do a mean, put it right mark, put it in dredge (ph) and all the sort ...
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: Go ahead. Charles, Charles -- hold on, hold on. Charles is making a point, please.
[23:35:06] BLOW: First of all, don't call me a hypocrite, right, because you obviously don't understand -- you don't understand what the meaning of that word is if it comes out of your mouth. Don't do it. Don't do it.
LEWANDOWSKI: You shouldn't criticize the vice president.
BLOW: Because I'm not going to call you names -- the moment you start calling me a hypocrite about anything on national T.V. you don't have any space, Corey.
(CROSSTALK)
BLOW: You have no space.
LEWANDOWSKI: Call the vice president ...
BLOW: You have no space. I don't actually even know what your role is, I don't know what you what your function is, I don't know if you're working for the Trump campaign.
LEWANDOWSKI: I don't work for anybody. I work for CNN.
BLOW: I don't know if you're actually surrogate, I don't know what you're doing, I don't know what comes out of your mouth and to what degree and ...
(CROSSTALK)
BLOW: The moment you start with the personal attacks you're going to get it right back. Don't do it. I'm not going to warn you.
RYE: Don? Excuse me.
LEWANDOWSKI: The fact you won't call out Joe Biden for what he said to real calling out Donald Trump is hypocrisy. RYE: Don?
BLOW: But you can never say anything critical Donald Trump.
LEWANDOWSKI: I've said it all the time.
BLOW: No you haven't. Lies.
RYE: Can we just -- excuse me?
BLOW: No you haven't.
RYE: Don?
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: Go ahead Angela.
RYE: Corey, and Charles, I would like to chime in. I want to take this in a different direction because it did get really personal. Here is the bottom line. Don, you're witnessing what we all are starting to see every single day in the personal lives on air, and that is people targeting each other, hurting each other, saying things that aren't true about each other because that is the type of example that one of the presidential candidates has said. It is horrible. It is horrible. This country has never been so divided. It has been years since this been divided. You will sit on national television and lie about someone, with a straight face. That is horrible.
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: Be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[23:41:03] LEMON: And we're back. Everybody left the set and I don't know what they're doing. I'm kidding. Ohm. Please calm down. Let's hopefully this will be -- we'll have more substantive conversation not that I didn't enjoy that.
So listen, I want to take look at this quote. This is from you, Scottie. This is from tonight, Megyn Kelly, Newt Gingrich debating the cover of Trump's now infamous "Access Hollywood" tape to Wikileaks and the Clinton campaign e-mails.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GINGRICH: Let me point out something to you.
KELLY: Sure.
GINGRICH: The three major networks spent 23 minutes attacking Donald Trump that night and 57 seconds on Hillary Clinton's secret speeches. You don't think this is a scale of bias worth of providence asvestia. I mean you want to know why Donald Trump's are ...
KELLY: Is Trump is a sexual predator that is ...
GINGRICH: He's not a sexual predator.
KELLY: OK, that's your opinion
GINGRICH: You could not defend your statement.
KELLY: I'm not taking a position on it.
GINGRICH: I'm sick and tired of people like you using language that's inflammatory that's not true.
KELLY: Excuse me, Mr. Speaker. You have no idea if it's true or not. What we know is that there ...
GINGRICH: Neither do you.
KELLY: That's right and I'm not taking a position on it unlike you.
GINGRICH: Yes you are. When you use the words you took a position ...
KELLY: So what I said is ...
GINGRICH: And I think it's very unfair of you to do that, Megyn.
KELLY: Incorrect.
GINGRICH: I can say that's exactly the bias people upset by.
KELLY: I think that you are defensiveness on this may speak volumes, sir.
GINGRICH: No, I'm going to suggest to you ...
KELLY: What I said is if -- no, no, let me make my point and I'll give you the floor.
GINGRICH: All right.
KELLY: What I said is if Trump is a sexual predator then it's a big story. And we saw on that tape was Trump terrorism himself saying that he likes to grab women by the genitals and kiss them against their will. That's what we saw, then we 10 women come forward after he denied actually doing it at a debate to say that was untrue, he did it to me, he did it to me, we saw reporters, we people who had work with them, people from Apprentice and so on and so forth.
He dies it off which is his right. We don't know what the truth is. My point is to you as a media story, we don't get to say the 10 women are lying. We have to cover that story, sir.
GINGRICH: Sure. OK. So it's worth 23 minutes of the three networks to cover that story and Hillary Clinton and her secret speech in the Brazil to a bank that pays her $225,000, and her dream is an open border where 600 million people could come to America, that's not worth covering.
KELLY: It is worth covering.
GINGRICH: We go back some of the tapes of your show recently, you are fascinated with sex and you don't care about public policy.
KELLY: Me, really?
GINGRICH: That's what I get out of watching you tonight.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: So we ain't the only one. I mean seriously. It's happening everywhere. Angela, you're right. I mean everybody is -- it's getting personal every where. What's your response, Scottie?
HUGHES: As a conservative, as Republican, knowing both of those people personally that breaks my heart to watch. I think that talks about the people of Republican Party is going to be, to divide within Republican Party.
Those two were the closest of allies and Newt Gingrich has been one to criticize both Republicans and Democrats. He has a pretty fair. He was here at CNN with us and pretty fair. He had great relationship with people like Van Jones. So to watch the two of them go at that is absolutely very heartbreaking because nothing productive came from that conversation, and if we are supposed to be the professionals that are -- supposed to be trained on how to do this the right way and people on T.V. see us tearing each other apart, what type of example are we setting for future generations? This goes beyond politics and isn't about -- this is respect and how we treat one another. This isn't about politicians. This is how about how you and I treat one another here on this stage as professional debaters and having a conversation with some sort of solution, not this type of ...
LEMON: That's the difference of professional debaters, people at home are not professional debaters, and I mean we all have to listen everyone your contributors, we're all contributors to CNN. CNN is a news organization.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That's right.
LEMON: And I think as a news organization, whether you are someone who is, you know, an anchor, or contributor, that the viewer and CNN as a news organization deserve that you come on the air and tell the truth not to be professional debater.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
LEMON: And I think that's where it sort to gets sort of lost in it because people don't realize -- they don't know if you're speaking the truth, or what you're doing, but I think if you're going to be paid by CNN, then you have to tell the truth.
[23:45:06] No matter if you're Democrat or Republican you must tell the truth and you can't just always spin. RYE: So if you can tell the truth, then do not fight each other.
LEMON: Yeah absolutely.
HUGHES: And that's the problem is we're fighting. Let me and you this question. This is the point that brought up. Don, do you think there's media bias?
LEMON: I think there's bias in everything, but I don't think there's media bias to the extent like there is overall -- the system is rigged overall. I think that there are instances of media bias, I think there are instances where people cheat at elections, but do I think it's a problem in the overall system in the way we elect people? Absolutely not. People cheat everyday. People steal every day from stores and people get on the bus and try not to pay the -- people do things that are wrong every day, but does it mean that the system is rigged, the media is rigged, absolutely not.
HUGHES: But look at the show today. Up until now, Corey and I are the first people that come and said something positive about Donald Trump. The whole entire show is about bashing Donald Trump. That is why people get upset.
LEMON: That's not serious. The full statement I had with Corey where I said that he had a point ...
HUGHES: Corey and I are the only ones that come up here and you had whole litany of people, even Michael Moore, who is actually being praised (inaudible) circles right now.
LEMON: Say something positive about Donald Trump?
HUGHES: And he flipped it to everybody.
LEMON: Donald Trump is not a perfect man so we can't say ...
HUGHES: I know that. Why we spending hours upon hours talking negative about him?
LEMON: Because he's running for president.
HUGHES: Equal time.
LEMON: But listen, we're having the same argument that Newt Gingrich and Megyn Kelly had. Donald Trump is running for president and a lot of things that come out of Donald Trump's mouth we would be remiss as journalist. It would be journalistic malpractice if we did not cover and show, and say, my gosh he said this about women, he said this about Mexicans, he said this about -- most people don't say those things especially people who are running to be the leader of the free world. You can feel how you want feel about him ideologically, but to say that he doesn't say things that do more than raise eyebrows almost every single day, would be a lie to say -- to pretend it does not ...
HUGHES: The key is look at -- and look at what Wikileaks has revealed, it revealed that the Democrats are willing to do whatever it takes to win.
LEMON: And the Republicans are as well.
HUGHES: Even dirty stuff that goes in there.
LEMON: And the Republicans are as well.
HUGHES: But you've not spent the hours upon hours looking into her.
LEMON: We talk about Wikileaks -- we talking -- go on.
RYE: Not the hours upon hours devoted to it.
LEMON: Go on. I'll give you guys the floor.
RYE: Don, I'm going to talk to you. Don, I think the issue is very simple. When you are dealing with people who are down trotting, down on their luck, and frustrated, any human being needs some know to blame and I think in this instance, the Trump campaign has taken advantage of that misery, of that frustration, of that anger and much of it legitimate and had found people to blame for it.
Initially, they were people of color, they were immigrants, right? When he came down to escalator from that moment, in some instances it was women, in some instances it was black people and now that Trump T.V. might be getting stood up, it's the media the very crooked media, the same thing that he said about Hillary Clinton.
We also need to acknowledge this is a fair and balanced network and we've spent quite a bit of time on Hillary and its not positive press. The e-mails are not positive. Bill Clinton's past in discretions sexually are not positive. Wikileaks is not positive, so I don't know where this notion there is this bias media approach dealing with Donald Trump when we're just talking about his words. We're using his words if it's negative, it's because those negative words came out of his mouth.
LEMON: I think it's fair to say both Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump have had positive and negative press coverage.
RYE: Sure.
LEMON: Throughout this -- just to be honest. The difference is, listen, Hillary Clinton and the campaign folks are not happy with CNN, they're not happy with everything that comes out of my mouth, or what I and her when I'm in interview with her. The thing is that they don't go on television and say, Don Lemon is crooked or the media is crooked. They do things in a way that is more respectful ...
HUGHES: Or dumb as a rock which she tweets.
LEMON: And where -- in a way that is my mom would say to me act like you've been there before, act like you'd come from someone, instead of saying, well you're crooked and you whatever. Any way, that's my piece. BLOW: Also the bias is more a profit bias, right, there's too much emphasis on ratings and Donald Trump should be the last person to complain about the media since he got his whole candidacy is built on free media.
RYE: $2.1 billion.
LEMON: Do we have another block or are we done?
BLOW: We have one more block.
LEMON: And I want to get Corey is here.
(CROSSTALK)
LEWANDOWSKI: Just two important things.
LEMON: Quickly. You want me give -- in the next (inaudible) I'll give your shot.
LEWANDOWSKI: OK.
LEMON: We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[23:53:36] LEMON: All right so we're back now. Corey didn't get to talk last segment. Go ahead. Say your piece.
LEWANDOWSKI: Talk about media bias a little bit. Look, if you look at the chief political reporter for Politico what is widely respect as (inaudible) publication. Glenn Thrush has an e-mail to Podesta which is revealed to Wikileaks and here's what he says, I mean he basically says, after he goes on and says, let me basically give you this entire article before I publish it because I'm such a hack. This was he writes of himself. And then he says, tell me if I F anything up before I publish this. And then we saw -- we also see that Mark Leibovich of the "New York Times" did basically the same thing. This is where journalists get a bad rap, right?
When there's a such a cozy relationship with -- look, I served 18 months as the Trump campaign manager never once did the "New York Times" say to me I'm going to forward you the article before its published, never once that they say, we have such a technical piece that we're writing that we have to make sure its factually accurate, so please review this in Politico. And I think that's where the bias comes in. I think that's what Trump is talking about. When you look at the media and they say, 93 percent of the time the stories that they have covered were negative on Trump as opposed to 7 percent which are neutral. That's what people are concerned about.
LEMON: So, again, I think you're making my point then because doesn't mean that every single journalist is -- you're giving two examples. And I'm sure there are others.
LEWANDOWSKI: The biggest reporters in the country. LEMON: There are other particulars and specifics about that. I'm
sure that can be argued. So, listen, but that's not how it works -- to do people. There are fact checkers and people do fact check.
[23:55:07] LEWANDOWSKI: Fact checkers are different than reporters. They're very different. "New York Times" does this, when they write a lengthy piece, a fact check will call you and say ...
LEMON: Yeah.
LEWANDOWSKI: ... we have facts that we want to clarify, you can talk to this Charles.
BLOW: I write opinion pieces. Don't call you for anything. And also nobody have ever, ever seen one of my columns before it was published.
LEWANDOWSKI: That's exactly right.
BLOW: And I don't take any invitations from any campaigns ever. I got one invitation from campaign say let's -- we wanted to have it off-the-record sorrowee (ph), that's like, do not send this back to me ever again. Because I don't have off-the-record with anyone
(CROSSTALK)
RYE: I think it's excellent.
BLOW: All I'm saying to everybody is you can point out one or two, and I'm not vouching for anyone else. I'm saying that the journalist in me ...
LEMON: Right.
BLOW: The person that (inaudible) for the last 25 years. This person will not be sullied by that.
LEMON: And I've got 20 seconds left. But I have to say that I work for this news organization and I think that this -- I mean, it is sets standard for integrity and nothing like that would ever happen at this new organization and I think it probably would happen at most of these organizations. You're giving specifics of one or two or maybe three or four things considering about hundreds or thousands of reporters that are out there.
HUGHES: The questions being leaked by one of our contributors to the Hillary Clinton camp in one of the debates.
LEMON: No it's not true. Nothing leaked by one of our contributors anyone. That is something that you would like to stand that did not happen.
HUGHES: They came from Wikileaks.
LEMON: That did not happen.
(CROSSTALK) RYE: In 2015, Peter King called Wikileaks a terrorist organization, now it's not terrorist organization. Outrageous.
BLOW: This is really important because Don have made raises point before. This idea that we come on and say things that are not true.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That is true.
LEMON: That is not true. That isn't a contributor. The person who leaked that e-mail if they did or not, doesn't work for this news organization.
HUGHES: She did the at time.
RYE: She did not. Time out Don because I'm going to defend -- we're talking about Donna Brazile.
HUGHES: I'm not mentioning her name.
RYE: I'm going to say her name. We're talking about Donna Brazile someone who is blazed a trail for many of us and busted doors wide open.
HIGHES: That's not what we're talking about.
RYE: I'm not done. I am not finished, Scottie. Let me finish.
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: Hold on, stop. Hold on, stop. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, you got to spot because I have to say this. I have to go. CNN does not provide Donna Brazile with anything. Donna Brazile is not in on any debates.
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: You should read your facts because they're wrong. And that's what I mean. You have an obligation ...
HUGHES: You got to taunt someone like that.
LEMON: .. when you work -- because you do work by CNN.
HUGHES: I know.
LEMON: You been paid by CNN to tell the truth. That's not the truth.
HUGHES: OK.
RYE: She did not send the question and nobody seen the question. There were lead-ins about statistics that were shared. Donna did not send question.
LEMON: But Angela, even with that, it's not ...
RYE: And you listen to the fact. LEMON: The premise of what she's saying is not right. I don't want to say who the journalist is who is said to leak the question. The journalist does not work for CNN.
HUGHES: I did it, she said the name.
RYE: Still do not.
BLOW: When we're fact checking ourselves ...
LEMON: Thank you all. That's crazy. Thank you, guys. I hope you enjoyed it. Fourteen more times, 13 more after this. Good night.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
