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Don Lemon Tonight

President Donald Trump orders extreme vetting of immigrants; President Trump's first world leader face-to-face holding a joint press conference; President Trump spoke about gun violence in Chicago; Aired 11:00-12:00mn ET

Aired January 27, 2017 - 23:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:01:05] DON LEMON, CNN HOST: President Donald Trump wraps up tumultuous first week in office.

This is CNN TONIGHT. I'm Don Lemon.

Welcome to our viewers here in the United States and around the world.

President signing executive actions at a fast and furious rate including one tonight limiting the flow of refugees and instituting what the president calls extreme vetting.

He also had his first face-to-face meeting with world leader today, British Prime Minister Theresa May.

Then there are the phone calls, one with Mexican president. That's coming after promise of White House meeting was scrapped over Trump's executive order on building a border wall with Mexico.

And another call tomorrow is with Vladimir Putin, Russia's president.

And let's not forget, the president's false claims of voter fraud and calling the press the opposition party.

There is more, I'm sure. So buckle up, America. It is going to be a very bumpy four year. That's what it looks like.

Let's get right to it. Ahmed Shihab-Eldin is here, senior correspondent for news channel AJ+, Ed Rollins, former chief political adviser for Ronald Reagan, Michelle Kosinski CNN's senior diplomatic correspondent and Maeve Reston, CNN national political reporter.

It is good to have you all on.

And Mr., Rollins is on here. Thank you so much.

Thank you.

LEMON: So Michelle, let's start with you. Tonight, President Trump signed an executive order to ban refugees from certain countries. Here's how he described it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I'm establishing new vetting measures to keep radical Islamic terrorists out of the United States of America. We don't want them here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: So Michelle, the executive order bans people from seven terror-prone countries from entering the United States for 90 days. It is a major change. What are you hearing about this tonight?

MICHELLE KOSINSKI, CNN SENIOR DIPLOMATIC CORRESPONDENT: Yes. I mean, those seven countries have now been established where people are not allowed to travel to the United States from. There are certain exceptions but those seven countries stand.

But there other points to this order, too including the indefinite suspension of all Syrian refugees coming into the U.S. until the system is overhauled. It is kind of interesting to think back to when President Obama's administration was criticized from the left for not taking in enough Syrian refugees in their opinion. Well, now, that is going to be indefinitely suspended.

But the refugee admissions program in general is also suspended. So no more refugees coming in starting now for 120 days. It is temporary because the administration wants to look more closely at system, look at the kind of vetting that is going on, look at the kind of information that is coming from certain countries and then assess whether it's adequate. And it also caps the total number of refugees coming in from for fiscal year 2017 to 50,000. Remember that the Obama administration recently raised that to 110,000. So we have the Trump administration now cutting that by more than half.

LEMON: Yes.

KOSINSKI: But what I think it was also interesting is what was not in this order, the draft order that have been circling around, order the secretary of state and department of defense to consider setting up safe zones in Syria, something that the Obama administration considered to be way too costly and risky, that is now in the final order, Don.

LEMON: Yes.

Ahmed, you know, this order appears to be directed at Muslims. It is Muslim countries, right, who are on this list. He spoke with the CBN, the Christian Broadcasting Network tonight. He says he wants to help Christian refugees. Listen to this and we will talk.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As it relates to persecuted Christians do you see them as kind of priority here?

TRUMP: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You do?

TRUMP: They have been horribly treated. You know, if you were a Christian in Syria it was impossible, at least very tough to get into the United States. If you were Muslim, you could come in. But if you were a Christian it was almost impossible. And I thought it was very, very unfair. So we are going to help them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[23:05:04] LEMON: Religious test. True Muslim ban here do you think?

AHMED SHIHAB-ELDIN, SENIOR CORRESPONDENT, NEWS CHANNEL AJ+: Yes. I mean, I don't think. I think that is what is happening. And you said it appears to target Muslims. I think it explicitly targets Muslims.

And what is really concerning about hearing him, you know, there and earlier this week where he said that refugees are detrimental to America. You know, what about a Muslim Syrian refugee like Steve Jobs' father? Was he detrimental to America? And you know, what he is really doing here is he is pinning religions against each other, Christianity versus Islam. Us versus them.

This is an extension of everything he stood for, like this executive order and many of the controversial ones in the last few days. This is like President Trump divisive. It is, you know, exploiting ignorance and fear. And Don, this not only undermines what America stands for, but tonight there are people sleeping who are thousands of people who are legally in this country on visas who don't know if their wife or partner or family member or children who are, you know, back home in Iran visiting, you know, their families will be allowed back into America.

LEMON: And Ed, what do you think? Religious test?

ED ROLLINS, FORMER CHIEF POLITICAL ADVISOR FOR RONALD REAGAN: I hope not a religious test. I think it's very important for us not to have a religious test. I think the critical thing here is to make sure there are safe guard on borders and take some time to figure out a system of how to we can bring people in with proper surveillance before in the sense of who and what they are.

Obviously, terrorism is alive and well and people very frightened of that. People are frightened in the course of the campaign. So I hope that in 120 days we examine how we do this, who these people are, how close it bring people and to make sure the ones are coming here basically are getting the sanctuary they need and also (INAUDIBLE).

SHIHAB-ELDIN: I want to quick chime in. It is important to recognize that this disproportionately affects Iranians. Why? Because more Iranians them have visas. And who are these people? I mean, an Iranian actress who has been nominated for an Oscar came out on social media and said that this is racist. You know, using race, you know, that term racist talk about a, being exclusionary towards Muslims. We have, you know, the director of the film "the Salesman." You know, has also won an Oscar. He has won an academy award. You know, he is now not going to be allowed into America. And Don, it is just also -- one last thing. You know, there is a

leaked version that said for 30 days, you know, this ban would be implemented. Now it's 90 days. That's not for Syrian refugees. And we have seen Donald Trump, of course, equate Syrian refugees them with radical Islamic extremists with all kinds of people. But that 90 days thing is important because it also stipulates that governments after those 90 days are going to have to pass information to the U.S. government before the ban will be lifted on individuals. Well, for Iran there are no diplomatic ties between the U.S. and Iran. So it is basically an indefinite ban on Iranians.

LEMON: I want to get my other panelist in here.

Maeve, let's put up the "New York Daily News" cover. The daily news says tomorrow's picture of the cover it is closing the golden door. That is interesting. And then Malala Yousafzai, the Afghan girl who was shot by the Taliban, she goes in, I won't read the whole thing, but I will put it up. She said she is heartbroken today that President Trump is closing the door on children, mothers and fathers fleeing violence and war. And then she says that people who helped build our country, ready to work hard in exchange for a fair chance at life, that, you know, this is going the other way with that. What do you make of that, Maeve?

MAEVE RESTON, CNN NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER: Well, I think this is such a reflection of so many things that Donald Trump talked about during the campaign. Obviously, this began as something that he was talking about as, you know, a Muslim ban. Then it became about certain countries. We didn't get any information from the White House tonight about exactly why, you know, these seven countries were chosen as opposed to others.

There's a lot of questions that are still completely unanswered. But I think this will cause a lot of grieving around the country among people who don't think that this is what America stands for. At the same time, a lot of the people who supported Donald Trump really wanted to see a turn inward like this and feel as though they are under threat all the time and that no one knows how to protect them or keep them say.

I just think at this point there are so many different aspects of this executive order that we still don't fully understand yet. And it's going to take days for, you know, legal scholars to go through this and talk about whether it really is religious test, how it could be challenged this court.

LEMON: I got to move on quickly here because we are going to talk about this for the rest of the show. But I just want to get in here. Why don't we take a break and then talk about what is happening with Theresa May and with the phone call with Vladimir Putin.

Take a break and we will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:13:26] LEMON: All right. Finishing up a full week of his first week in office, our new president.

Back now with my panel.

Ed Rollins, how did the president do today meeting with the -- his first world leader face-to-face holding a joint press conference?

ROLLINS: You know, I think, obviously, Britain has always been a great, our greatest ally and oftentimes as the first person we meet with. And for the guys who has been in the White House a week, I mean, I think he looked good. Communication seemed good. They both touched on some issues that were important to both of them. It seem like a comfortable relationship that obviously very important long- term.

LEMON: This is -- Michelle Kosinski, you know, is our diplomatic correspondent. This is how look how it is playing overseas, right? They are holding hands. You know, the president and Theresa May. Yes. They are the happy couple. And sort of two peas in a pod, and I don't mean that not in a bad way.

KOSINSKI: Yes. I mean, Theresa May clearly wanted to play that up to the fullest extent. I mean, talking about how they are aligned ideologically over the last few days and really kind of being a cheerleader for this relationship going forward.

I liked it though when she kind of (INAUDIBLE). In her remarks, she talked about NATO and how Donald Trump that he was 100 percent behind NATO, right President Trump? That was kind of her attitude. I mean, reinforcing that in kind of wanting to get that agreement from Donald Trump.

But I think, yes, there was a lot of positivity here. Theresa May is under political pressure herself at home to not kind of sugar coat the big differences that there on Russia sanctions, on torture, so she wanted to be strong on her believes in which she differs from President Trump.

But yes, I think it came off as they wanted it to be, very positive.

[23:15:04] LEMON: Well, Maeve, I thought it was interesting watching this press conference and, you know, the British press, this reporter stood up and said, you know, how -- why should she trust you? And you both have very sort of high strung or volatile personalities. I'm paraphrasing there. And I was thinking to myself, if he thought that the American press was tough, dealing with the British press is no vacation and no holiday.

First, Maeve.

RESTON: Right. I mean, this it certainly an entertaining moment for Donald Trump who just this week has, you know, said that affirmed what his top adviser Steve Bannon has said which is that the opposition party is the media. And so, you know, but in this moment kind of handling that with laughter. It's obviously a much more serious issue here at home as Donald Trump has been putting out, you know, a series of pronouncements that aren't true, and then is being challenged by the media and isn't taking well to that. So it was a very rocky first week from that perspective, but a lighter moment there at the press conference.

SHIHAB-ELDIN: And if I can just pick on that. I mean, you know, British humor aside or British severity aside in terms of the questioning from the journalist, there was another BBC reporter who asked President Trump what his relationship was like with Putin and what he thought Putin. You know, President Trump, I thought it was noteworthy, you know, he responded saying he doesn't know the gentleman. It seems that that's another example of, I guess, these alternative facts that he is relying on.

And I bring this up because in 2013 in interview he said not only does he have a good relationship with him but that he voluntarily suggested that Putin was listening to his every word or was probably very interested to hear what he was saying right then. And you know, I bring this up because this only goes to show that this is what is so concerning about these executive orders. You know, he is not reliable. He is inconsistent with the facts. And so, when he comes out with these kinds of pronouncements, I mean, the only reason this was a ban, as vague as it is and not, you know, a Muslim registry, Don, is because just weeks ago President Obama dismantled the Muslim registry and (INAUDIBLE) which also originated with these seven countries, and saw 14,000 people with visas in this country, you know, register, go through deportation hearings, 80,000 more register.

I mean, you know, this is a president, and this is really what we need to focus on, who has no problem knowingly lying to the American people so long as it serves his interest. He said that Islamic radical extremist as recently as this week --

LEMON: I got to get somebody else in before we are out of time.

SHIHAB-ELDIN: I just want to make --.

LEMON: OK, quickly.

SHIHAB-ELDIN: Said radical extremists are coming in by the thousands under the Obama administration. He said that at rally in Ohio. Now that he is president, he is continuing with these lies. And why they are so problematic is because when he tells supporters things like that, equating radical Islamic extremists with refugees, with illegals, as he refer to Syrian refugees last week, it create the perception in their minds that all things have to do with Islam are to be feared and it justifies these unconstitutional policies.

LEMON: Do you agree with that, Ed?

ROLLINS: Of course, I don't agree with it. I think at the end of the day here, I have been around politics for 50 years, every administration, Democrat or Republican always sees the media as the enemy. It's always kind of battle for who says the national agenda. I think the bottom line here is the president is taking the period of time to look at things carefully and I think the executive order is something that it is quick way for him to do it without going to Congress, without a permanent ban. We need to study our whole immigration. We need to basically review how to bring good people in those country and good people being measured by people who want to come here and live the American dream.

SHIHAB-ELDIN: It is true but he wants to measure it by religion. And I think --.

LEMON: OK. I want to continue the discussion here. So we discussed it.

I want to talk about Russia, Ed. Because CNN is learning that, you know, he is going to have phone call with Putin. We are also learning the administration officials telling CNN that White House has asked for state department information about Syria, about Eastern Europe and about sanctions in advance of the call. What is that -- does that say anything to you?

ROLLINS: Well, I think obviously, those are topics are very, very important. And I think the Syrian issue is critical issue and Russia has played probably most important role there of anybody. And I think, you know, to have an honest discussion you got to know the facts are and I think you have to understand with Mr. Trump, this is his learning curve as much as anything else. I mean, he has been there a week. He has got a foreign policy team that is in place now. He will learn more and more at time goes on.

LEMON: Michelle, do you think --?

RESTON: Not only that.

LEMON: Go on. Who is that? Is that Maeve or Michelle?

RESTON: Not only that but I mean, that is a departure from what we saw, you know, in the aftermath of the campaign where he was taking calls from foreign leaders without having any of his normal briefings and following diplomatic protocol and that was very worrisome to a lot of people. So I think it will be reassuring that he is getting that information now from his staff to the extent that he has a staff in place and still many open posts.

[23:20:09] LEMON: Michelle, what Ed talked about that. I wonder if this is sort of signaling because that something that there's going to be a difference. Because there's growing speculation might ease or lift the sanctions on Russia imposed by the Obama administration for its invasion to Ukraine in 2014 interfering with the 2016 U.S. presidential election.

KOSINSKI: Yes. I mean, it clearly looks like it is heading in that direction based on a number of things. President Trump has said before he was president. But today he did temper it. As we discussed in the press conference with the British prime minister saying, well, you know, maybe I won't get along with Vladimir Putin. I hope it is a fantastic relationship, but we will have to see. And I think on sanctions, too, there are lots of rumblings out there, but again, we are just going to have to see.

ROLLINS: And a lot of Republicans in Congress are not in favor to listing sanctions at this time.

SHIHAB-ELDIN: Don, if I could made very quickly, I just want to make sure that, you know, it's important as journalists and in general that we not normalize. And I fear that we are doing that a little bit. Because you know, saying and suggesting that all presidents, you know, have clashes with the media. I mean, this is unprecedented moment in American history and it is important we view it as such. There have never been in modern American history the kind of protests we saw on inauguration day. And the reason is --.

LEMON: But you know, Ahmed, I hear that about not normalizing but the fact to the matter is that whether we like it or not, whether you like it or not, whether you think it's normal or not, he is the president of the United States. And I think that thing is realization has come this week. He has done exactly what he said he is going to do. And I think, you know, the people who oppose him, you can continue to oppose him. But at some point --.

SHIHAB-ELDIN: But Don Lemon, I'm not saying I'm opposing him. I hear what you're saying but it is also --.

LEMON: I hear that about normalizing a lot. I understand what you are saying. But the reality is he is president.

SHIHAB-ELDIN: But the reason I am saying that is that at protests, and I was out there on both days, you know, for AJ+ reporting on both the protests at inauguration, the celebration and also the protest at the women's march. And one thing that was palpable, is this wasn't just a repudiation of Donald Trump, President Trump or his policies. This was a recognition by the American people who have been disillusioned by both parties. As you know, and we discussed on this now --.

LEMON: You weren't happy with Democrats either.

SHIHAB-ELDIN: No. And what it was, was they now realize that media and the Democrats and our institutions are not enough to protect us, to protect our constitution. Let's remember that the constitution refers to we the people. It doesn't refer.

ROLLINS: I think it is very important to separate the women's march, which was a tremendous march and a peaceful march, versus the terrorism that took place on the day of the inauguration. People I guess, any cars on fire, threatening people, people arrested, that was not protest.

SHIHAB-ELDIN: Of course. But my point is, few days later, right when this executive order was made, CARE, the Council of American Islamic relations, made a call for thousands of New Yorkers to show up and protest. And reason people showed up is because this is a sustained movement. He has planted the seed of a modern civil rights movement.

ROLLINS: We are very polarized society and expect the debate to go on.

LEMON: Maeve, I will give you the last word. RESTON: I think that's what we need to see after the women's march

and the reaction this week to his immigration executive order is whether or not that resistance that has so much energy this week, whether that actually can come together and influence Trump in terms of policy and so far we don't know.

LEMON: Yes. I mean, this is only been seven days.

ROLLINS: Long seven days. Seven years.

LEMON: I looked at CIA speech, and I said that was just within this week? It felt like a month ago.

All right, thank you, everyone. We will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:27:30] LEMON: The Donald Trump White House is now officially a week old and it has been a wild week. What a wild week.

I want to bring in now Joe Madison, host on XM radio and syndicated talk radio host John Fredericks.

Seven days. Joe, how are you feeling about that?

JOE MADISON, SIRUS XM RADIO HOST: It seems like the first 100 days. I mean, what can I say, you know? Well, I can tell you this. It certainly makes I think our job easy because prepping just means wake up and see what the heck has been done or said.

LEMON: How do you think the first week went Joe?

MADISON: I think it is mixed week. Look. If you're a Donald Trump voter, he followed through with executive orders, with pretty much everything he said. And if you were my audience, pretty much you are very upset because they still don't trust him.

You know for example, what I have been hearing on my show is that they cannot understand how this man is so obsessed with the size of his crowd at inauguration when you have got all these major issues you just discussed in the last segment. How he is now talking about or was talking about voter fraud only to find out that he had people on his own family and administration --

LEMON: A lot of people are registered in more than one state and that is because they move. But it doesn't mean they vote in more than one. Because that's not voter fraud.

MADISON: But that's what people are. They are just saying, you know, like suppress the ego here for a moment.

LEMON: Yes.

John, I'm sure you disagree with the first week. JOHN FREDERICKS, SYNDICATED TALK RADIO HOST: Look this was a

whirlwind first week going to go down in history as transformational political revolution of proportions you have never seen. This president, President Trump, is the disrupter of the status quo.

And what he is doing is exactly what he said he was going to do. Had hundred rallies. He had a thousand interviews. He campaigned for 18 months. He laid out specific agenda. He even doubled down on it during his inauguration speech and he is doing exactly what he said he was going to do.

And Don, for the political establishment and the status quo and donor base and the elites and those in Washington and Wall Street that make their money by funding these campaigns and getting influence, they have no idea right now what to do. They actually have somebody who campaigned on a set of issues, comes in, he is not playing golf, he is not messing around and he is not taking days off and he is doing exactly --

[23:30:16] LEMON: Playing golf? Only been in office a week.

MADISON: Wait a minute. You are not supposed to take off on the first week of work.

(LAUGHTER)

LEMON: I mean, he has always been -- may feel like a longer time for us covering this. But only a week.

MADISON: But Don, John is absolutely right. I mean, we agree on that. It's just that you know -- but then he backs up. You know, I'm going to have a -- we are going to look into this voter fraud, then no evidence to back it up.

This man reminds me -- You know, Barnum and Bailey has closed its tent. But this man is still the ring master and it's circus over here, circus over there, this is what it's been. It has been a circus. And by the way, I find it very interesting that Wall Street and billionaires don't know what he's going to do, and that's who is in his administration. It is a billionaire club.

LEMON: Let Joe respond -- John, I'm sorry.

FREDERICKS: Look, Joe. I appreciate what you are saying and I get where you are coming from. But look, I know it's difficult right now for lot of liberals and left, they can't really figure this out. There are so many things going on. They can't go to their normal play book which is the Republicans come out with something and they find interest groups and they divide people and go on TV and do emails. They can't do that, right. It's over. This is a new world order that Trump has put in place because he is an advocate.

LEMON: It's not just liberals who do that.

MADISON: It's just begun, not over. Look, one million, are you kidding me? Did you see all these women and their families, you talking about it's over, hell man, it just got started. What are you talking about? It is not over. And I can tell you this, I'll tell you when it's over for me, and I'm going to say this again. I'm getting ready to do my taxes. Donald Trump ought to show his taxes. And let me tell you, that's the battle cry on my show. I want to --.

FREDERICKS: For heaven's sake Joe. Come ne. Get over it.

MADISON: No, no, 75 percent of Americans --

LEMON: That's first petition on the White House Web site.

FREDERICKS: This is so -- you know, what, Joe?

MADISON: No. You can't talk that one out.

FREDERICKS: What you are saying is so ridiculous.

MADISON: Show his taxes.

FREDERICKS: You think that working people.

MADISON: Show your freaking taxes.

FREDERICKS: Working people that voted for Donald Trump in Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, Michigan, Minnesota, the blue states really care about.

LEMON: Do you think they care about that? Yes, they do. The polls show that they do.

(CROSSTALK)

FREDERICKS: Don. They don't care.

(CROSSTALK)

MADISON: Alternative facts.

LEMON: OK, John. I'm sorry. That is not what the polls show. That is alternative facts.

FREDERICKS: He won. The great equalizer, the great leveler in politics is economic prosperity. The great unifier is jobs. Let me tell you something.

MADISON: And people want to know how did you make your money? How do you make prosperity? And there are some honest ways of doing it and there are some crooked ways of doing it. Who is financing this man, where does he get his money, is he in hock with Russia, I want to know all of this. And so do the American people.

FREDERICKS: Don. You can't let this go on, Don.

LEMON: John, you're radio guy. And you should be able to go up against another radio guy. Come on. I'm the TV guy. How about, you know, you guys go ahead. FREDERICKS: Yes. But you can't filibuster the conversation. As far

as donors are concern, Donald Trump is beholden to nobody. He self- financed his campaign. He is beholden to donors, Wall Street or anybody else.

MADISON: So what is he hiding?

FREDERICKS: He's not blue. He is not red. It is of no relevance. People don't care. They voted for him because he is going to bring jobs back. And if you are putting food on the table it's not Republican, it is not Democrat, it is not red or blue, a paycheck is green.

LEMON: All right John.

FREDERICKS: This is what you guys fail --

LEMON: I have to say because we deal in facts, 74 percent of people do care about his taxes.

We will continue our conversation. We will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:38:13] LEMON: All right. So President Trump has no secret he is no fan of the media and this past week didn't make things any better. So let's get back to Joe Madison and John Fredericks.

So Joe, I have been hearing this from a lot of liberals, right. You guys have to stop normalizing him. He hates us. He doesn't think we are normalizing him at all because we are critical of the things that everything that he does. And I don't mean critical in the negative way. We look at that.

I don't think that's a winning talking point for liberals. I understand it. This is not normal, people are not used to this. This is a new revolution when it comes to American politics but I don't think that that's a winning talking point. I think that you are going to oppose him then you should do it but just saying stop normalizing. This doesn't really do anything.

MADISON: Well, I understand what you're saying, I don't know if I totally agree. Because here's what bothers people at least on my show. When you exchange words for line, you come up one with the fancy word, alternative facts. When, you know, what people want is for the media to say, look. Just call a spade a spade. It's a lie.

When you get people for example -- and you know you get folks like -- I was southern poverty law center sent out a flier the other where you have David Duke who says we won. And no one tweets on the administration side that says wait a minute David, you didn't win a thing, I hate you, I don't like that.

LEMON: They have disavowed David Duke.

MADISON: No. But you know, they have disavow him. But once again, David Duke hasn't disavowed Trump. And that what upsets people. And then finally what person from any administration goes to the "New York Times" and tells the media to shut its mouth. There's a reason for the fourth estate, and it is the only institution or business that is written into the constitution. It is what we need to keep an eye on any administration.

[23:40:20] LEMON: Checks and balances in our government and people in power. And by the way, freedom of speech is not the second or third, it is the first.

First amendment John.

MADISON: First thing the founders did was educate the people and keep politicians honest.

LEMON: OK. John, so speaking of that, I think it was a strategy, because I think they are saying, hey, you know, talking about this stuff, whatever, and chaos and whatever. In the meantime they are sliding all this other stuff in and media is not talking about it. I think that it's a strategy.

FREDERICKS: Well, look, you can have your opinion on what the strategy is. But then there is reality. And here is what the reality is. Donald Trump is 70 years old. He ran for president because he really believes in the things that he talks about. He has been saying the same thing. I know him. He has been saying the same thing to me for 30 years, nothing has changed. The rallies didn't change. The campaign didn't change. The debates didn't change. The website didn't change. Nothing has changed with this man. He believes in what he is saying.

Now, here's what's happening with what many in the media can't grasp and understand. He is 70 years old. He has no fear. He doesn't care what the "New York Times" says. He doesn't care what "the Washington Post" says. Quite frankly, Don, he doesn't care what CNN says or FOX.

LEMON: Hang on.

FREDERICKS: Let me finish.

LEMON: Hold on, John. I got to stop you there because every time we say something, everything the media says something, he says that we are biased and that we are against him and that we are the opposition party. So he must care at a very core level what the media says. And didn't you hear how much cable news he watches every single day? I think he really cares what the media says especially the "New York Times," "the New York Post" and CNN. Go on.

LEMON: Hey Don because I know you are listening, watching.

FREDERICKS: Don, you are right. Good point. But there's a very solid line that Trump has between caring and fearing. He has no fear. Other presidents and other politicians in the past are afraid of these media outlets. He has no fear of them. And you know why, Don? Because he is the head of a movement. That's why the people that fear him more than the media are the Republicans in his own party. Fifty percent of them have no idea why he won, 70 percent still can't figure out what happened on November --

LEMON: hey, I got to go.

FREDERICKS: There's this movement they can't figure out.

LEMON: John, I can speak for myself and the people who work to this organization. The media doesn't fear Donald Trump. We are just go, the President Trump, we are just going to continue to do our jobs. And I mean, our jobs we have to report on him.

MADISON: And I'm saying hi to Donald Trump, not Don Lemon.

LEMON: Don't fear him by any means.

FREDERICKS: Don, it's a beautiful thing that the media doesn't fear him and he doesn't fear the media, so finally we can honesty in government.

LEMON: I agree with you. There is an honest relationship now. At least we know how he feels about it.

Joe, I will give you the last word.

FREDERICKS: Exactly.

MADISON: Excuse me. Donald Trump works for us. John, Donald Trump works for us. I do not work for Donald Trump and I don't fear people that work for me. I do not work for the Trump organization. He now works for the United States people. And this is not about fear, this is about doing what is right for the entire nation, not how he feels.

LEMON: That's your mic drop.

MADISON: 70-year-old man ought to get over what size his hands are.

FREDERICKS: He's advocate for the American voter. I don't know, Joe, where are you coming from. He is doing exactly what he said he was going to do.

MADISON: Well, it isn't from a position of fear. You count on that. Show your taxes, Don.

FREDERICKS: I'm telling you, Joe. He's not afraid of the media.

LEMON: Don't miss the town hall event. Our CNN town hall event, House Democratic leader Nancy Pelosi joins our host Jake Tapper, a live studio audience as well to talk about the Democrat strategy under the Trump administration. That's our Nancy Pelosi town hall live Tuesday night at 9:00.

They are still talking I'm sure to each other. We will be right back.

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[23:48:14] LEMON: President Trump speaking out about gun violence in Chicago. Let's discuss now. Michael Eric Dyson, the author of "Tears we cannot

stop: a sermon to white America," which is freshly on "New York Times'" bestseller's list.

Congratulations, Michael. Thank you for joining us.

MICHAEL ERIC DYSON, AUTHOR, TEARS WE CANNOT STOP: A SERMON TO WHITE AMERICA: Thank you, Don. I appreciate it, my man.

LEMON: So this week, the president weighed in on the violence in Chicago saying that he may send in the feds. He was asked about that in an interview on ABC and FOX News. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: People are being shot left and right. Thousands of people over a short period of time. They are going to have to get tougher and stronger and smarter but they got to fix the problem. I don't want to have thousands of people shot in a city where essentially I'm the president.

Chicago is worse than some of the countries you read about in the Middle East where there's wars going on. And there's no reason for it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: What do you think of his framing Michael? Does he deserve credit or he is completely wrong in the framing of this story?

DYSON: I will actually say this. There is a parallel, although, he may not like it between (INAUDIBLE) what Spike Lee did as a film and what Donald Trump is saying here in terms of a war zone. I think even people who are progressive and leftist and liberals who want to see something done about the situation have to acknowledge that Donald Trump is on to something here when he talks about a, he doesn't want American citizens under his presidency perishing and dying.

And let's be honest, if Donald Trump's PR machine was working overtime, it could even say, hey, we are more concerned about this than the previous president. At least I'm making it target of opportunity and speaking about it in a very serious fashion. So he can make hay of it.

The question is, Don, I think sending in the feds won't relieve the problem. It only exacerbates it in one sense. But on the other hand, if you were to try to address the underlying problems, the school closures there, the economic inequality, the lack of jobs, the unemployment situation is dire. The expulsion of young black and brown kids from schools. If he were to addressed those situations or at least use his bully pulpit to amplify and echo the voices of those who are concern about that, then I will give him a much grade.

[23:50:24] LEMON: Yes. The issue for many people is that he gets his facts wrong sometimes. Like on this ABC interview, he said that two people were shot and killed in Chicago during President Obama's farewell speech in the city. According to the city police department, no shootings then. He has got to be more precise in his language and his facts.

DYSON: You got to be precise in the fact. And if we are dealing with alternative facts or really false truth and false facts, then none of it makes a difference. It's a stream of consciousness and he just spouts off at the mouth. If he could discipline himself and link that to what is empirical, what we can proves, then he would have a better chance of addressing these issues in the substance of fashion and even those who are skeptical of him might even agree.

LEMON: Do you think he can -- you said those who are skeptical of him might agree. Do you think when you saw those millions of women and men and children who are out marching last weekend the day after the inauguration, can he or what should he do if he wants to reach out to that group or is that a lost group for him because they are not happy with Democrats as well.

DYSON: Of course, they are pretty critical of both sides. I was out there. In fact, with the 750,000 people in Los Angeles because I thought it was very important, you know, social protest.

No. I think that the problem is Donald Trump makes these (INAUDIBLE) interventions and he says thing and he wants to improve the situation but he under cuts himself by refusing to listen quote "to the other side" or engaging people in the serious and sustain fashion that shows respect for their humanity.

Here's a president, a sitting president who has so many groups and constituencies against him whether its women for perceived predatory behavior and African-American and Latino people for perceive racism and xenophobia. And now, of course, with the signing of an executive order at least today trying to prevent and block the inflow of Muslim brothers and sisters. I mean, on the one hand, he seems to talk a good game of trying to be sensitive and open. But on the other hand he is diminishing whatever moral authority he might possess with those audiences because he refuses to see the humanity beneath the politics and people are rightfully afraid of him.

LEMON: All right. Let's talk about certain new book now. Tears we cannot stop; a sermon to white America. It is about racial tension in this country. And here is what you write in part and you say quote "we must face up to what we as a country had made of the black people who have been the linchpin of democracy, the folk who saved America from itself, who redeemed from the hypocrisy of proclaiming liberty and justice for all while denying that liberty and justice should be to us. If we don't act now, if you don't address race immediately, there very well may be no future." Those are powerful words. Why do you feel the situation is so dire?

DYSON: Well, I think that the evidence around us suggests it. We have unarmed black and brown people continually subjected to police brutality and to being killed by the police. The police are often the only interaction or at least the first one that people of color have with the state. And police people have the badge and the gun, the (INAUDIBLE) and the authority of the state. And as a result of that, they should be especially careful about how they treat the citizens.

Then when we look what happens in our school system where I mentioned earlier that young black and brown kids are being expelled. Now, that sounds like, well, what's the big deal? They did kick out of school. Well, the get expelled from school. They stay out for several days. They get off the rhythm of learning then becomes a feeder into the detention. Detention becomes a warehouse with jail. Jail becomes a feeder system in the prison.

So when we look at that, when we look at the predicament of black woman who were the first to be evicted, when we look the voting right act and how it is being vetted, across the board, Don, the issue of race is central to American society. And unless we address the way in which black and brown people are being targeted for prison industrial complex and for the lack of motivation to get them jobs. When we look at that situation, America is in a tough position right now and black and brown people are suffering especially and a great deal.

LEMON: I'm wondering what you think a Trump presidency means for race relations in this country. Often here, the Trump people saying, well, you know, he got more votes than Mitt Romney got from African- Americans. He didn't get as many as George Bush got. I wonder what you think that means in his country. You look at African-Americans didn't want to perform at his, you know, inaugural ceremony. (INAUDIBLE) who did perform is now being lambasted and ostracize. What do you think it means for race?

DYSON: I think it's a setback, honestly. It is not simply about what Donald Trump himself believes, it is about what in the world are we doing with a person who is on the one hand saying that he is concerned about African-American and Latino people. He is going to help us out of the situation we are in in this nation.

But on the other hand, he is amplifying the worst bigotry and xenophobia that we might have imagine because he put in place Steve Bannon who is at the, you know, west wing and a right winger who has troubling racial overtones. He has got an attorney general who has the same thing.

So what we are dealing with here is an extraordinarily amplification of some of the worst racial tensions we might imagine. Even if one gave Donald Trump a pass himself. I was at Thirty Rock, Don. Donald Trump saw me when the elevator opened up and said you, you have been tough on me but I love you. If I had your pipes and brains I would be president. He said some nice things. One on one very charismatic. But that has not to do with the way on which his policies when amplified are (INAUDIBLE) and destructive to people in America.

LEMON: Look at that, right on target. Man, you are used to doing it.

Thank you, Michael Eric Dyson. The book again, the name of it is "Tears we cannot stop, a sermon to white America." Congratulations. Thank you, sir. Have a great weekend.

DYSON: Thank you, sir.

LEMON: Good night, everybody.

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END