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Don Lemon Tonight
Ariana Grande Concert Ended in Terror; Suicide Bombing Now Considered Likely Reason for Manchester Blast; Horrific Incident Left Children in Trauma. Aired 10-11p ET
Aired May 22, 2017 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[22:00:00] ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.
DON LEMON, CNN HOST: Anderson, thank you so much. Much more on our breaking news now. Nine people confirmed dead, around 50, if not more, injured, at the Ariana Grande concert in Manchester.
This is CNN TONIGHT. I'm Don Lemon.
We're awaiting a news conference, it's going to happen at any moment. I need to tell you that a western law enforcement official is now telling CNN a male at the scene in Manchester has been identified as the probable suicide bomber in this event.
A U.S. official said suicide bombing is now considered to be the likely reason for this blast. It happened just before 10.35 p.m., that was local time. This, as audience members, tens of thousands of them, many of them young people, mostly young girls, teenage girls, or pre- teens, leaving that Manchester arena.
Witnesses describe a huge explosion. Chaos, victims and injured people on the ground. And, again, I must tell you we're awaiting a news conference, that news conference is supposed to happen at 9 p.m. Eastern hour here in the United States. It has not happened yet and we're awaiting that. As soon as it happens, we'll bring it to you live.
Let's get you up to date on the details and what's possibly behind this now. I want to go straight to CNN's senior international correspondent, and that is Phil Black. Phil joins us now. Phil, I have to ask you, this was the first of three Ariana Grande concerts in the U.K. What can you tell us about what happened?
PHIL BLACK, SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT, CNN: Don, Ariana Grande had walked off the stage only moments before, people had begun streaming out of the arena. As you say, tens of thousands of people filled this space, screaming fans. They were walking outside. And it seems from witness accounts and what we're hearing from the venue management itself, that's where the explosion took place. Outside of the arena in what the arena management describe...
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: Phil, I need to cut you off. We're going live to that press conference now. Here it is.
IAN HOPKINS, CHIEF CONSTABLE, GREATER MANCHESTER POLICE: Manchester arena in the city center, this was at the conclusion of the Ariana Grande concert. Currently, we have 19 people confirmed to have lost their lives in the explosion, and around 50 casualties, that have been treated at 6 hospitals across Greater Manchester.
My thoughts are very much with those who have been injured and lost their lives and their loved ones at this terrible time.
We're doing all that we can to support them.
Officers from Greater Manchester police and emergency services are working at the scene and are supporting those affected. We are coordinating the operation here at Greater Manchester police headquarters.
An emergency number is available for all those concerned about their loved ones or anyone who may have been in the area. The number is 0161-856-9400.
We are currently treating this as a terrorist incident until we have further information. We're working closely with national counterterrorism policing network and U.K. intelligence partners.
This is clearly a very concerning time for everyone. We're doing all that we can working with local and national agencies to support those affected. As we gather information about what happened last night.
As you'll understand, we are still receiving information and updates so we'll provide further detail when we have a clearer picture.
I want to thank people for their support. I've asked them to remain vigilant and if they have any concerns at all to report them to the national anti-terrorist hotline. The number is 0800-789-321.
It is important also that people here in Manchester avoid the area around Manchester arena so that the emergency services can continue to effectively deal with the incident at that location. Thank you very much.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Have there been any arrests, Chief Constable?
LEMON: That was the chief constable there, Ian Hopkins, reporting on this giving us the very latest on this information saying that they're asking for help and gave out a number, of course, you can use in the U.A. -- U.K. for anyone who may have seen or may have information on this.
He said right now, they're investigating this obviously as a terror incident as has been reported by the media and by CNN, of course. Also saying that they're working with national counterterrorism experts to try to figure out exactly what happened here.
They also want people to avoid the area around the arena until they get a handle on what's going on and collect any evidence. But, again, at least, at least 19 people, 19 people, have died in this
incident. About 50 people are injured. Possibly more. And, again, they're investigating it as a terrorist -- a terrorist incident.
[22:05:00] It happened 10.40 p.m. local time there in Manchester. They believe it happened near the ticket office if not inside of the arena, just outside of the arena at the entrance. It is 3. a.m., 3. a.m. Manchester time. Of course, 10.05 Eastern Time here in the United States.
The eyewitness accounts of what happened there, just really unbelievable. People saying they heard an explosion, some witnesses saying in the beginning they were told that some of the balloons had been going off thinking that it was a celebration to end the concert as Ariana Grande was wrapping up her last song "Dangerous Woman" on stage when this happened.
And again, they said thousands of young girls, mostly young girls, their parents were in the process of picking them up. Some of the children left early about five minutes out before the concert so that they could meet their parents outside. Those young girls obviously are people caught up in the incident. Parent witnessing the incident as well.
Again, 19 people believed to be dead so far. And they're still gathering more information.
Again, our correspondent Phil Black with more information on the scene. Phil, you were in the middle of -- in the middle of discussing this. You heard what the chief constable said. What more can you tell us about this incident?
BLACK: What we can talk about, I guess, Don, is what we've been hearing from the witnesses through the night, and that is their sheer terror, if you like, in the moments that followed the explosion. So, what we heard from witnesses initially, was that, yes, it seemed that the explosion was outside the venue itself.
We've seen venue from with inside the venue in the moments afterwards. That was where you hear the panic, the screaming, the frantic efforts of people to escape. What they were rushing toward was the scene of the blast itself.
We understand it took place in a public space just outside the venue there, and it was that blast, we believe, that was responsible for the 19 people who were killed, perhaps 50 or so who were injured.
And what you heard there from the police is they're treating this as a terror attack until they have reason to consider it otherwise. It's pretty clear, we think, that that is the definite direction that the investigation is now heading in.
And so from the hours since, what they have been doing is first of all getting emergency services and first responders to the scene to help the injured. Those who so desperately need that assistance. While also locking down the area and ensuring that there is no further threat. The crucial point about the location is that it appears to have taken
place outside the hard security perimeter whereby people enter and exit the arena itself. That's where the searches took place, that's where people's bags are inspected, people are often patted down. That's where it's almost impossible to get some sort of device past the security perimeter that exists there.
So what appears to have happened is as the concert was just finishing, people were just leaving the venue, in a public area that is not as secure, just outside the concert venue, that's where this blast has taken place.
And in the moments that followed, what we've heard from witnesses that it was simply absolute panic. The video points to that. You can hear the people screaming as we've touched on, we are talking about teens, young people, perhaps children with their parents.
These are the people that were caught up in the crush, the desperate effort to escape the venue when they first heard that blast. And they've talked about hearing this incredibly loud blast from within the venue itself, which gives you a sense of just what we're talking about here in terms of -- in terms of size.
So that's where -- that's where we're at. The police clearly trying to coordinate their intelligence services, counterterrorism police as well, and they, as we heard there, they said they'll tell us more once they have more. But a very bare basic briefing from the police at this point, some hours after the incident, Don.
LEMON: Absolutely. Our Phil Black joining us. Phil, that target outside of the arena is what's known as the soft target area. The soft zone that is very hard to secure. Again, if it is terrorism, the person who had this bombing device may not have been allowed to get past security or may not have been able to get past security just because security is so strict and the bomb exploded outside.
And again, I need to tell you that this is according to the information that was gathered from our Pamela Brown and sources here at CNN, a western law enforcement official told a male, told CNN that a male at the scene in Manchester has been identified as the probable suicide bomber here.
And U.S. official said suicide bombing is now considered to be the likely reason, again, for this blast.
Again, this blast happening 10.35 p.m. outside of the ticket office there at the Manchester arena.
I want to bring in now CNN's justice correspondent Evan Perez. Evan, now we have 19 people, at least 19 people who have died in this, maybe more injured. More than 50 injured or so. A male at the scene as I just said has been identified as the probable suicide bomber. What are your law enforcement sources saying tonight?
EVAN PEREZ, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Don. That's what U.S. law enforcement and intelligence agencies have been getting from their counterparts in the United Kingdom.
[22:10:01] At this point, they believe they've identified a male who is the probable suicide bomber. At this point, they only believe that there was one bomber who carried this attack out and they also believe that this person may have waited for the end of the concert, when you have all those kids, all the concert-goers coming outside of the venue, he struck right outside the venue.
People obviously inside were able to hear and feel the force of the blast as it occurred. But at this point, again, these are -- these are ongoing, these are theories, early theories for these law enforcement and intelligence agents officials who are looking at the scene there and are trying to collect some of this information.
And one of the things that they're doing, Don, is waiting to see if there can be an analysis of the residue that, you know, from this -- from this blast to see if it matches any of the recipes that are well known for terrorist groups.
We know that ISIS has put out recipes for some of its followers to try to construct some of these rudimentary bombs and so they're trying to see if they can collect some of that evidence and perhaps do some analysis to see if it gives them any initial clues of where this attacker might have gotten the idea, the recipe, the ability to make this explosive device.
LEMON: Having said that, speaking to your sources here in the United States, as you know, when something like this happens overseas, U.S. law enforcement react to it as well. So what does that mean for law enforcement here in the United States now?
PEREZ: It means a late night for all these folks. Some of them were heading home, Don, at the time that this occurred and they turned right back around and because -- you know, when this happens, they also immediately think of the possibility that, you know, these groups could be trying to coordinate things in other places and they want to know, they want to help the United Kingdom to see if there's any information that they might have in the U.S. intelligence system that could help them try to get to the bottom of this.
And one of the things that U.S. agencies can do, at least because, you know, they're still staffed at this point, it's overnight in the U.K., one of the things that they're quickly able to do is look at social media to see if anybody in that region was doing anything at that point or making any statements that might give you a clue of what might have happened here.
So they're scouring social media. They're looking to see whether or not there's anybody who is on the U.S. radar who was of concern in the Manchester area.
We know, we've talked to officials in the United Kingdom and mi-5 in particular, have said that one of their big concerns are the returnees, people who went to Syria to fight for ISIS and other groups and come back and they're very concerned about them concentrating in areas of the United Kingdom including in London, in the midlands and in the Manchester area. These are areas concentrations, there's a lot of them, and they're trying their best to keep an eye on them, Don.
LEMON: So we heard from the folks in the U.K., from British police, the constable there asking for help, saying now that it is being investigated as a terrorist incident until they find out otherwise or they know exactly what it is.
And now a U.S. homeland security is reacting, Evan, I want to get your response to this. DHS says that they have no information to indicate a specific credible threat involving music venues in the United States. Evan Perez?
PEREZ: Right. And this is very, very common. One of the first things they do is to see whether or not there's any threats that they're picking up certainly from the intelligence streams that are coming in constantly to see if there's any indication that there could be a threat here in the United States.
Obviously, at this hour, you have concert venues across this country that are having concerts and they're letting out right about now and so you probably will see a higher police precedents -- presence in some of the big cities in the United States just as an abundance of caution.
We see this in almost every type of this incident, type of incident like this, and I wouldn't be surprised if people coming out of concerts here in Washington, in New York, in Chicago, in Los Angeles, they'll see more police on the ground just simply because when things like this happen, others might get the idea that now is the time for them to do something similar, Don.
LEMON: Yes, and the question is about national -- our national security apparatus. We hear about those threat levels in incidents like this. What does this have to do -- what does this do to the apparatus and are higher -- are they on higher alert tonight?
PEREZ: I got to tell you, they're already on as high alert as you can be. I mean, it's certainly one of the things that crosses the mind of every person who works in this field in national security that at any time, something like this could happen here.
Obviously, we've been lucky we haven't had anything like this, but they've been expecting, again, we're coming up into summer in Europe, they're looking for an uptick in this type of activity across the continent and in the United Kingdom simply because you have so many of these people being pressured by the advance against ISIS in Syria and Iraq and they're coming home.
They're flooding back. They're trying to sneak back in any way they can and they probably haven't changed their stripes. They're going to try to do something at home now that they're back.
[22:14:57] LEMON: All right. Evan Perez, our justice correspondent reporting on this. And if you're looking, just joining us, obviously this is video, cell phone video from inside that arena, that explosion happening earlier at 10.40 p.m. there Manchester time. They are five, plus-five hours ahead of us. It's 10 p.m. here now. Three a.m. in Manchester.
Some of the people who were there telling CNN that they heard an explosion at this concert, just as it was ending saying there was smoke everywhere, in the main corridor, outside the arena and the staging area.
Again, according to our Phil Black, they believe it happened just outside of the entrance. Witnesses saying it was a really big explosion. Everybody started screaming and running. There were people on the floor. There was a lot of confusion.
And again, social media posts from the scene show panic concert-goers as you are seeing now running down the arena stairs in an attempt to get away from this really madness, just chaos inside of the Manchester arena.
According to the British constable, now they're asking for help and they gave out a number if you're there in the Manchester area in England. They're asking you to call them. Again, being investigated as a terrorism event. A terrorist attack.
And working with their national counterterrorism experts. And I would imagine that is folks here in the United States as well. Asking people to avoid the area because they have lots of evidence to collect at this particular point.
Let's turn now to our experts here at CNN. Our terrorism analyst, Paul Cruickshank, and also national security analyst Juliette Kayyem. Michael Weiss, also an investigative reporter an international -- for international affairs.
Good evening to all of you. A horrible event happening in Manchester. Greater Manchester police, Paul, are treating this as a terrorist incident. You heard them in the briefing just moments ago. Didn't take any questions, just gave a statement. Why is that their operating theory at this point in time?
PAUL CRUICKSHANK, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: Well, because it was a suicide bomber involved and that, of course, points to terrorism and actually also points you toward Islamist terrorism. There has not been any claim of responsibility yet from any terrorist group.
Al Qaeda and ISIS haven't put out any official statements yet, but I can tell you that on social media, people who are supportive of ISIS, of other Jihadi groups, are celebrating right now. They see this as a success.
But we'll have to see what this was and who was responsible and whether there was a wider cell that was involved in this attack. We saw what the Brussels and Paris attacks, those were carried by an ISIS cell with more than a dozen operatives that had come back to Europe to carry out those attacks.
Are we dealing in the United Kingdom now with a large cell which could strike again or is this an isolated individual who perhaps learned how to make the bomb over the internet? All those questions are urgent at this hour, Don.
LEMON: And we keep saying that it's 50 people or so. According to the information just in to CNN, regarding the hospitals there, we're getting this from the Manchester hospitals and the Manchester ambulance service, they're saying the U.K. Northwest Ambulance service has tweeted that they have taken 59 casualties from the Manchester incident to various hospitals and treated a number of walking wounded on the scene.
They believe, Juliette Kayyem, it's early on, they believe that there are probably more casualties, more injured, at this point, but as of now, 19 people confirmed dead, 50 or so, they are saying, injured and that's probably 50 or more is probably a better way of putting it.
Juliette Kayyem, I just want to get your response to this, the Manchester arena tweeted, "We can confirm that there was an incident as people were leaving the arena, the Ariana Grande show last night, the incident took place outside the venue in the public space. Our thoughts and prayers go out to the victims. Please follow @gmpolice or Twitter for further updates."
Just outside the arena in a public place. What does that tell you, Juliette Kayyem?
JULIETTE KAYYEM, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, this was the ultimate soft target because it was a very, sort of dense area with a target of young children. I mean, these are teen girls. These are, Ariana Grande, you know, this is the 12, 13, 14-year-old crowd.
The pictures you were showing earlier, Don, I don't know if you noticed it, there are parents on the other side. This happens a lot. Any of us who have kids, they wait on the other side, they go in, have fun. That is what you're dealing with.
And so the most important thing right now, we don't know where everyone is, it's family unification. I've done disasters throughout my career. It's the thing that motivates every person is where is my child?
And so what you're seeing now is on social media, there's a lot of focus, there's a hotel nearby where family unification is happening.
[22:20:01] That way they would be able to figure out is 19 the only casualties we have and it's the 50-plus in hospitals the only ones that are missing. Because we just have a data problem, not to sound, you know, too objective about it, you just have a numbers problem right now.
So, that kind of communication is ongoing online in social media and the most important thing is family unification, so that they can get a handle of how many fatalities they actually have and then, of course, you're dealing with parents who are probably absolutely terrified right now until they actually reach their children.
LEMON: Yes. And as you were...
(CROSSTALK)
KAYYEM: This one -- I have to say, you know, this...
LEMON: Go on.
KAYYEM: Sorry. I mean, this one -- you know, I just have to say, I know I'm like, you know, objective analyst, this one is just -- you know, no victims of terrorism are more or less deserving, but it takes sort of a special kind of cruelty to target this concert.
As I said, anyone who knows Ariana Grande knows that she's in that -- in that sweet spot of those 11 to 15-year-old girls and he knew exactly what he was doing if it is, in fact, this male terrorist that we're hearing about.
LEMON: Absolutely. The youngest victims, as they say, in all of this, children at this point, Juliette.
And as you were saying, Juliette, you are right, if you look at that initial video where they're coming down the stairs, you see parents just standing there and they're waiting there helplessly and hopefully waiting that their children will come out of that arena.
There you see the woman there in the pink and red and also the -- you can tell that's parents there. As the children and concert-goers are running down these steps. I can only imagine being a parent not knowing what's going on and then, you know, hoping that you will see your child come running down these stairs in your arms.
KAYYEM: There they are.
LEMON: So just awful. Michael Weiss, I want to bring you in and get your thoughts on this as we learn more about this incident.
MICHAEL WEISS, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, I mean, there's a lot that we don't know still. I would agree with Paul that all indications point to some act of Islamist terrorism. Whether it's Al Qaeda or ISIS remains to be seen.
I would remind you, though, that, you know, the fact that this took place outside of the venue, that's not necessarily because that was the target. The target could have easily been inside the venue.
Recall during the Paris attacks that one of the suicide bombers in that 10-man attack ring detonated his explosive device outside the Stade de France and ended up not killing nearly as many people as he might have done had he been inside the venue.
So we might be looking at a situation where as awful as the butcher's bill is on this attack, you know, something like 20 dead, 59 casualties, the death toll is probably going to rise given the nature of this kind of attack, it could have been actually a lot worse.
And, you know, Manchester was the site or the perspective site of one of the largest Al Qaeda plots in Europe. There was a Pakistani guy who was actually extradited to the United States in 2009, I believe, raised in Manchester, was looking to detonate a device much like this in a crowded marketplace there. Could have killed scores of people. Hundreds of people.
And the telling anecdote about him is that when he was cross examining the British cop who raided his apartment and found all the materials, the incriminatory evidence, said, it's nice to hear a Mancunian accent because he was on trial in Brooklyn.
So this just goes to show the nature of these attacks particularly in Europe tend to be not by people who are coming back from war zones or from terrorist havens although that can sometimes be the case, but from native sons who have grown up in these communities and come from these countries and are afforded every opportunity and, you know, you -- the process of radicalization takes place over many months and years, if not decades.
Just on a final point, recall Jihadi John, Mohammed Emwazi, the guy who did the gruesome beheadings of western hostages and ISIS, which is a preliminary of the U.S. intervention in Syria and Iraq, he also came from the U.K. Father was a black taxi driver which is a fairly middle class profession in London in the outskirts, so did fairly well for himself.
Emwazi I think was an engineering student and tried to go off to Somalia to join Al-Shabaab and was on mi5's terrorism watch list.
I would not be surprised, this unfortunately this is always -- you would write this script with a crayon at this point. Every time something bad like this happens, we find out after the fact that this was somebody who was being surveilled or who did have a rap sheet of some kind.
LEMON: Yes, all right.
WEISS: I wouldn't be surprised if that's the case here as well.
LEMON: OK. I need you guys to stand by. I want to get to someone. Stand by, please. I want to get to Karen Ford. Karen was at the concert tonight in Manchester, joins me now by phone.
Karen, thank you for joining us. Sorry you had to witness this. As I understand, you said everyone was getting out of their seats, walking towards the stairs, when all of a sudden a huge sound.
KAREN FORD, WITNESS: Yes.
LEMON: It sounded like an explosion went off. Take us through it.
[22:24:58] FORD: Yes. The concert just finished. I was there with my 13-year-old daughter since this weekend. And Ariana Grande just departed from the stage and the lights came on so everyone stood up.
We started to walk towards the staircase to take us out of the building and all of a sudden from the opposite corner of the arena, there was a huge bang which sounded like an explosion. Everyone stopped and just looked to each other for a few seconds. Then
someone suddenly shouted, bomb. So then just everyone went into a frenzy. Everyone was panicking and people were just pushing and trying to get out of the building. And there had been a lady in a wheelchair who was trying to get out with her partner. It was just awful. Awful. Awful.
LEMON: As I understand, Karen, I'm not sure if you were in the area, but they said that they thought it may have been balloons to sort of...
FORD: Yes.
LEMON: ... celebrate the end of the concert. Did you hear that? Go on.
FORD: Yes. Well, Ariana dropped about 200 or 300 huge pink balloons and during one of the second of the songs. And -- to the end. And I try to tell some of the children because the problem was there were lots of children there on their own, they're like, 12, 13, 14 years old whose parents were outside so these children were all crying, were really upset.
I'm trying to say it's the balloons that exploded. It's just the balloons, not a bomb. And everyone was pushing and people started to become crushed and then once we actually got through the doors, all of the employees of Manchester arena had disappeared.
There was nobody there. There was no one to direct us where to go. There was no one to organize it, tell people to be calm. And then just everybody ran, obviously, out of the building onto the streets and it was just mayhem on the streets.
There were children crying, trying to get in contact with their parents. There were parents on their phones who obviously were upset. They were crying trying to get in contact with the kids. But it was just an awful, awful thing to witness and to be involved in.
LEMON: Yes. As you -- I mean, just chaos as you were describing it.
FORD: Yes, yes.
LEMON: And as I understand, you said that people tried to push past a woman in a wheelchair.
FORD: Yes.
LEMON: As children screamed. You said but you didn't see any smoke, just the very loud bang.
FORD: Yes.
LEMON: Your husband thought it was two explosions?
FORD: Yes, but maybe it could have been just something -- there were lots of police cars, they've come in, so he thought he heard two. Most people did think they just heard one.
So, my husband and somewhere outside, they were parked probably about half a mile away from the arena. They heard -- they heard the bang quite easily.
LEMON: Yes.
FORD: And they came running down toward. They tried to film it and obviously the cell coverage wasn't very good because everybody was on their phones. So, when eventually we got into contact and we did meet up.
LEMON: Yes. Karen, there's lots of moving parts here. Did you see any of the injured or any of the sadly victims?
FORD: No, we didn't even know it was actually a bomb until -- we live in Sheffield which is about 40 minutes away from Manchester and we were halfway home and on the radio, it kept saying, an incident happened, they think it's a bomb, and then eventually they said there been 19 fatalities so we didn't know until we were nearly home that people had actually died that had gone to a concert with their family, with children, and they're not going home tonight.
LEMON: Awful. How's your daughter?
(CROSSTALK)
FORD: I just can't imagine.
LEMON: How's your family?
FORD: Shaken, she's very shaken. She loved the concert. She was in awe of Ariana Grande. She loved it and then -- just not a very good birthday. She's alive. I brought my baby home which some parents won't be tonight, will they?
LEMON: Yes. Karen Ford, an eyewitness to all of this, bringing her 13-year-old daughter to that concert for her birthday party. Her birthday celebration. And it ended in, sadly in tragedy for so many. Karen, thank you so much. We're glad that your family is OK. We appreciate your time here on CNN.
Karen saying that she heard the explosion, everyone getting out of their seats walking toward the stairs trying to run out right as that last song was being sung by Ariana Grande.
[22:30:03] Fareed Zakaria, host of "FAREED ZAKARIA GPS", joins me now. Fareed, it's an awful, awful story. You heard Ms. Ford say, you know, she happily she brings her baby home tonight, but there are parents whose children won't be coming home. Sadly. I want to get your take on this breaking news.
FAREED ZAKARIA, CNN HOST, "FAREED ZAKARIA GPS": Well, first one has to just react as a human being and in my case, as a father of two girls, a 9-year-old and a 14-year-old, both are former great Ariana Grande fans. My 9-year-old has a big poster of Ariana Grande above her bed and has often asked if she could go to an Ariana Grande concert.
And so, I can so easily imagine myself one of those parents. It's just, it's devastating. It's heartbreaking.
Sadly, this is something that we might have expected, not this particular event, but for the last year.
Terrorism experts, officials, Obama administration officials, others, have been saying that as ISIS is squeezed and loses territory and weapons and financing in the Middle East, people are going to come back as some of your reporting have said, but also they have been -- ISIS has been calling on people.
Supporters, well-wishers, to engage in precisely this kind of Jihadi activity. They have been suggesting go out, you know, cafes, concerts, this is the playbook that ISIS has been suggesting.
Of course, we know it from the Paris theater attacks, and surprisingly, you know, we thought we had kind of escaped it for a while, but it's a reminder that this problem of Jihadi terrorism, of radical Islamic terrorism, let's call it what it is, is with us, it's still alive, it still takes very few people to cause a great deal of damage.
That remains the terrible calculus here which is we don't know how many people we're talking about. Was this a lone guy? Was it five people? Was it 10? What we do know is it could be very, very small numbers that can inflict a great deal of damage.
LEMON: The U.K., Fareed, as we -- as you discussed in your program when we talked about here before, because of all the past incidents, under constant threat of terrorism attack. But has there been any indication that the U.K. was more susceptible than usual in recent weeks, months, days?
ZAKARIA: Again, if you broaden the framework to months, yes, terror officials have been saying as ISIS is losing ground, a lot of these people are returning and where are they returning? They're returning to France, Belgium, Britain, those are the, you know, the countries that a lot of these people came from.
As Michael Weiss was pointing out, remember Jihadi John. And also that they are trying to encourage well-wishers, fellow travelers, and for a variety of reasons, Britain and particularly the cities outside of London, Birmingham, Manchester, seem susceptible to these marginalized groups or quasi-assimilated groups of immigrants.
And so, yes, again, not in any sense this particular event, I don't mean in any way to subject that any officials or agencies did anything wrong. How on earth could you know this particular person was going to do something? But unfortunately, there has been -- there have been plenty of warnings that as ISIS loses at home, it will lash out abroad.
LEMON: Fareed, just initially they're talking about this being a suicide bomb, they're saying also that there was shrapnel, And so my question to you is, if it turns out to be that, is there
anything about this attack or the manner in which it was carried out. That might give us an idea about who was behind it or how big of an operation it was or is?
ZAKARIA: So far, not really. Other than the fact that this is a fairly classic, I hate to put it this way, but Sunni Jihadist attack. It's kind of nihilistic; it has no political purpose other than simply to destroy.
It is very much in the ISIS/Al Qaeda playbook and it reminds us, I suppose, in a sense that this is the great problem we have. You know, people talk about Iran, people talk about all the other problems, but the core problem that threatens the western world right now remains this problem that we were introduced to so brutally in 9/11 in the United States, which is a kind of cult of nihilism, extremism and Jihad that's grown up in countries like Saudi Arabia and Egypt and has transmogrify into this terrible thing that, you know, whether it's ISIS or Al Qaeda, and it is brutal, it is merciless, it is nihilistic.
There is no political agenda. Think about that, Don. For most of our experience over the last 30 or 40 years, terrorists have objectives.
[22:35:00] They, you know, whether it was the IRA, there was always some purpose behind it. This is terrorism simply for the sake of killing people. A kind of nihilistic act of violence where violence has almost become the end in and of itself.
And this is -- this is a signature, this is a hallmark of this kind of modern Sunni Jihadi terrorism that we've seen coming whether it's ISIS or Al Qaeda.
LEMON: Fareed, 30 hours just before this, the president had issued a call against terrorism. Of course, this is all happening in the middle of the president's trip to the Middle East. His first foreign trip since taking office, Fareed.
Then lots -- there has been no official, I should say, response yet from the White House tonight. But this weekend the president made a speech in Saudi Arabia, as I mentioned, on the topic of Islam, to the leaders of over 50 Muslim countries.
President spoke about Islamist extremism and terrorism and the need for leaders in the Muslim world to come together to fight it. Does this just drive that message home?
ZAKARIA: It does drive that message home. I hope that those measures, you know, the Saudis have announced these kinds of measures many times before and yet they continue in many ways to support a religious establishment that preaches a kind of intolerance and exclusion that feeds this kind of Jihad.
I think, again, it reminds us, you know, a lot of the president's speeches and talks and policy have been directed against Iran and have been accommodating toward the Saudi Arabia and some of those other key Arab states. It's a reminder that the danger we face, the terrorism we face, has
historically emanated out of Saudi Arabia. It has emanated out of the Sunni Arab world. These -- we don't know yet, but I think it is highly likely that the terrorists we're talking about right now comes out of that tradition, all of them prior to this point have come out of that tradition.
And while, yes, there are geopolitical issues with Iran, I think it's -- it would be a mistake to sign on too quickly to a kind of Saudi agenda, Saudi foreign policy. This is one reminder that the, you know, this problem of radical Islamic terrorism emanates out of the heart of the Arab world, has been funded, fueled, encouraged by countries like Saudi Arabia.
And let's hope that they can now finally turn a corner, finally disassociate themselves from a religious establishment that has encouraged this kind of -- this kind of violence, these kinds of views about westerners and any nonbelievers.
But so far it hasn't happened which is why you can -- you can shoot down, shut down one particular group, whether it's Al Qaeda or ISIS, it keeps coming back. It keeps bopping back up. And why is that? Because the ideology continues to be spread, funded, financed and encouraged and that's where we have to fight the war.
LEMON: All right. Fareed Zakaria. Fareed, thank you very much. I appreciate you joining us. And if you're just joining us here, there's been what is believed to be a terrorist attack in Manchester, England.
We're getting video from social media of people pouring out of that concert, running for their lives after an explosion. Twenty people dead we know right now. They think the death toll may go up. And we will definitely inform you if that does happen.
Fifty-nine people injured. Nineteen killed, I should say. Fifty-nine people injured at this Ariana Grande concert. Nineteen killed, 59 injured.
I want to bring in now our chief medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta. He joins us now by phone. It is very early on in this investigation, Dr. Gupta. And again, I just want to report, 59 people injured, 19 are dead. Also, getting reports that shrapnel may have been used in this bomb which would mean nails. What types of injuries do we usually see from situations like this?
SANJAY GUPTA, CNN'S CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. You know, Don, we used to say that these were the types of injuries you'd only see on battlefields but I think over the last few years now, that has changed. These are becoming civilian injuries that civilian hospitals have become too familiar with treating.
What typically happens, you know, is that you have sort of three waves, if you will, Don, of injury. A primary wave which is the blast wave, itself. It's basically the concussive blast wave that causes the first round of injury. The second wave of injuries is typically shrapnel and debris. Not necessarily from the explosive device, but everything is potentially shrapnel and debris in a situation like this.
The third wave is sort of bodies moving, Don, bodies moving into bodies. Those are typically the three waves of injuries. Now, a couple points to make, and I think you may have said this earlier, the worst place obviously for an explosion like this is to occur is in a very small confined area and the reason being that that primary blast becomes magnified in a smaller area.
[22:40:00] Given that this was outside, obviously horrific as the scene describes but could have been much worse if it had been inside in a smaller area.
And also I think, Don, even since you started the show, the numbers have gone up. Fifty now to 59 people who are injured. That is not surprising. What typically happens in these types of explosion injuries is that there are -- there can be people out there and people who have been mindful of this that they may have injuries.
Areas within their body may have been compressed by the explosive wave. They may not recognize the injury initially. They'll be going to the hospital over the next several hours, Don.
LEMON: Yes. And we spoke, Sanjay, to Karen Ford, she and her husband had brought their daughter, a 13-year-old to celebrate her birthday that evening. Lots of young people there. This audience is very young. The metal -- if they weren't injured in this, there will be a mental health impact, trauma, for kids like this, for young children.
GUPTA: No question. I think for children, certainly, this was an area, obviously, that they went to enjoy themselves. Parents relinquished control of their kids for a period of time here for enjoyment and, yes.
I'm a parent of three girls, Don, who are just 12, 10 and 8. And you know, every time you hear something like this, no matter where you are living in the world, it's frightening and, you know, nothing obviously like what they're experiencing there right now.
LEMON: Our chief medical correspondent is Dr. Sanjay Gupta joining us to help us out on this story. Sanjay, we appreciate your expertise on that, on this.
GUPTA: Sure.
LEMON: We'll get back to Sanjay if we get more information on this. But again, British constable holding a news conference at the top of this hour just about 40 minutes ago saying that they are investigating now this as a terror, terrorist incident, asking for your help if you were there in the area to get in touch with police asking people to stay away from the area and, again, saying this is a terrorist event.
I want to bring in now CNN's Max Foster. Max is joining us on the phone now. Or is Max on the phone? Joining us now. This is currently being treated -- there he is. Not on the phone. He's on camera. Being treated as a terrorist attack. What more can you tell us from London about this incident, Max? MAX FOSTER, CNN HOST: Well, we're in the midst of a general election
campaign here and the prime minister has said that that election campaign will be suspended. We expect all the main political parties to join forces with that.
That allows her to chair a Cobra meeting, as it's called, an emergency meeting of senior government officials, but also security officials which will take place down in Westminster in London we think at 9 a.m. local. That's 4 a.m. Eastern Time.
That will really be bringing together all the latest intelligence on this. It's being led from Manchester by the police there but also senior counterterrorism officers at the national level are coordinating here in London to see whether or not there's any intelligence that should suggest there might be any follow-up attacks, for example.
Just to get to the bottom of what the motive here might have been and where this inspiration might have come from, Don.
LEMON: Max, how authorities reacting there, we heard from the chief constable moments ago. More reaction from authorities, what are you hearing?
FOSTER: Well, people really expressing their thoughts for the people involved here. We haven't got a definitive motivation here saying it is terror, but everyone's obviously investigating in that way.
People are really feeling for the many people caught up in this, so lots of eyewitness testimony coming in.
It seems to have happened just outside the arena where parents were gathering to pick up their kids. That's the narrative that keeps coming through. So they're dropping off their kids to go to the concert, picking them up then seeing the blast.
And you have this horrific period of time where everyone was split up, everyone was running in different directions from the stadium. They were told not to go back toward it, they were being pointed in particular directions by the police.
And parents and friends just didn't know where their loved ones were and a lot of them sadly are waiting for the horrific confirmation that their loved ones are dead.
LEMON: Max Foster joining us from London. Max, thank you very much. Now I need to get to this next person and it's important that you sit down and listen to this and watch this because Charlotte Campbell joins me by phone. Her daughter is missing tonight. Charlotte, you said your daughter is 15 years old. Her name is Olivia. Tell us what happened.
CHARLOTTE CAMPBELL, PARENT: She went to the concert with her friend. I spoke to her just before 10 o'clock. She was enjoying herself. And we've not heard anything from her since. We've been -- we've phoned hospitals, we've phoned everywhere we can think. We've posted on every social network and there's nothing. There's no news of her. She's now registered as a missing person.
[22:45:02] LEMON: Olivia?
CAMPBELL: Yes.
LEMON: Olivia is your daughter's name. She's 15 years old.
CAMPBELL: Yes.
LEMON: She is registered as a missing person. She was with her best friend, you said, his name is Adam.
(CROSSTALK)
CAMPBELL: Yes. He's missing as well.
LEMON: The hospital hasn't found her. And he is missing as well.
CAMPBELL: Yes.
LEMON: And you're not able to get her on the phone. It's going directly to voicemail?
CAMPBELL: It is, yes.
LEMON: Yes. And what are -- what are authorities telling you? Is there any -- are they telling you anything?
CAMPBELL: They're not telling us anything. They're just registering them as missing people and telling us to wait by the phones.
LEMON: Adam, her best friend's phone, you can't get through either.
CAMPBELL: No. We can't get through to anyone.
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: As I understand, your husband, her father...
CAMPBELL: Her father is out looking.
LEMON: Looking for her. Yes.
CAMPBELL: Yes.
LEMON: You haven't heard any...
CAMPBELL: Just been pointed to a pub now and told to wait.
LEMON: Yes. And so when was the last time you spoke with Olivia, Charlotte?
CAMPBELL: I spoke to her about half past 8 this evening.
LEMON: We're going to put her picture there. There she is. We're putting her picture up on the screen for our viewers to see. What do you want people to know about what parents like you are dealing with tonight? I don't know if you can even put it into words.
CAMPBELL: I can't. It's most horrible feeling ever to know that your daughter's there, you can't find her, you don't know if she's dead or alive. And I don't know how people can do this to innocent children.
LEMON: Yes.
(OFF-MIC)
LEMON: So I have to say, I think you have your television up in the background, if you do, if you don't mind, turning it down.
CAMPBELL: Yes, I'll turn it down.
LEMON: Hopefully, hopefully, Charlotte, that is just her phone isn't working and Adam's phone isn't working and you'll be able to get in touch with her. That is the hope tonight.
CAMPBELL: Yes, I just want her home. I want her home and I want her safe.
LEMON: Yes. At a concert with mostly teenage girls.
CAMPBELL: Yes.
LEMON: Horrific. One would wonder what kind of monster would want to do something like this, if it does turn out to be terrorism or some sort of suicide bomb, Charlotte.
CAMPBELL: I have no idea what could go through their mind to want to injure innocent children. The children. They haven't done anything wrong.
LEMON: Yes. Tell us about -- about the children and going to this concert. She and Adam wanted to go to this concert, obviously. Was she the fan, is Adam the fan?
CAMPBELL: They both -- yes, both great fans of her. It was a treat for Adam's birthday. And my daughter's been quite probably lately, and Adam to go as a treat for her as well. They've done nothing but talk about it, been excited for it.
Buying new clothes for it. What normal teenage children realize they're going to see one of their favorite artists? And it's ended in absolute carnage.
LEMON: This is one reason it's so hard when your children, pre-teens, and teens, to start letting them go off and doing their thing.
CAMPBELL: She'll never be going out again, she'll never be going out my sight again.
LEMON: In moments like this, Charlotte, it's almost impossible to find words to even -- to speak with you and to even -- to even question you because I can't imagine what you're going through.
CAMPBELL: Yes.
LEMON: And as we -- as we looked at the video that's coming in through social media, you see all those parents who are standing out front of that arena just hoping that their children are going to run down those steps and into their arms. I'm sure at any moment, every single moment, you are awaiting Olivia to give you a call on the phone or to come walking in the door.
CAMPBELL: Yes. That's all I want. I just want her to walk through the door. Phone me, text me, if anyone sees her, contact me. It's all over social media. You can contact me in any way. I just want her found.
LEMON: Yes. If we can put Olivia's picture up again and if anyone out there has seen Olivia, Olivia is 15 years old. Olivia Campbell, her mother, Charlotte, joins us now by phone. Her mother says she just wants her to come walking in the door or call. But her cell phone is not working.
[22:50:01] Olivia went to this concert, the Ariana Grande concert with her best friend, Adam. Adam's phone isn't working either. They can't get through to either phones. Charlotte says she spoke to Olivia just after 8 o'clock tonight, Manchester time as she was getting ready to go to this concert as the concert was starting.
But she says she has been missing since half past 10 London time. Is registered as a missing person now. She has reached out to all the hospitals. Her father is out there looking for her now.
And as I understand it, Charlotte, you said that they have been telling people like Olivia's father to gather in a pub to wait for information, correct? What are they saying?
CAMPBELL: Yes. They're to go to the parking pub in Manchester and just wait there for any information, rather than walking the streets and going to hospitals. Because hospitals are just getting flooded with people. It's easier if everyone is in one place, then the police can contact them there.
LEMON: And we have to say, I spoke to another mother earlier, Charlotte, who said it was just chaos. And people were running in all different directions and it is possible that she dropped her phone.
And just now maybe at this moment she doesn't have a way, and Adam, they don't have a way to get in touch with anyone.
CAMPBELL: Yes.
LEMON: Again because it was pure chaos outside of that arena.
CAMPBELL: Yes, Olivia knows my number, if she can get to a phone, she'll ring it. I know she will.
LEMON: Charlotte, we're going to let you go now. And if we can help you in any way, can you get in touch with us? And if you hear from Olivia or Adam, please let us know.
CAMPBELL: I will. Thank you.
LEMON: Our thoughts are out to you, our prayers will go out to you and we're wishing the best. Thank you so much.
CAMPBELL: Thank you.
LEMON: It's tough. I want to bring in now Jim Maxwell. Jim is a retired FBI special agent, Tom Fuentes is a CNN senior law enforcement analyst, and Bob Baer, CNN intelligence and security analyst.
Thank you all for joining us. I mean, this is the most horrific of circumstances and as our Juliet Kayyem pointed out, you know, each victim each life is all worth the same but it's just -- it seems more horrific when there are children involved in this, Tom.
Law enforcement officials are telling CNN that is likely, the likely cause of this explosion is a suicide bomber. If you were part of this investigation, what exactly would you be looking for right now?
TOM FUENTES, LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST, CNN: Well, actually, Don, they're looking at so many things, that's why they have so many hundreds of individuals working on this kind of case, try to identify the individual that if he is the suicide bomber, who is he, where is he from?
Who are his friends or colleagues or others that might also be assisting in this plot or planning other attacks? The explosive device itself, what were the chemicals used, how was it wired, how was it is set up that might...
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: Tom, can you stand by, please. Pardon the interruption. New video of this attack of these bombings. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, my gosh. What's going on?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What's happened? What's going on? Oh, my God.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: So that's the newest video. Again, more video coming in from social media. People taking, using -- taking video on their cell phones and that is exactly what they will be using in this investigation probably initially they're looking, Tom, at cell phone video. Every video that is put out there. You heard the explosion in the background. And you can see people's reaction. That will definitely be part of the investigation.
FUENTES: Absolutely. And we're also going to have a great deal of video coverage just around that arena, around the outside of it that they might be able to pick up the individual going to the location or walking with whatever he was carrying, maybe a backpack or some other way to carry the device. So, you know, that's a very arduous process to go through all those
videos. It may take hours, it may take days to go through area videos. The train station nearby. You know, just there's many avenues of investigation that have to be covered here and it's very difficult.
So they'll divide the investigation up into teams that will deal with the bomber, the device, the videos of the event. Social media, other coverage, any information from sources about threats that may have been placed in social media or published about that. Any groups that they may have been watching that could be tied to this.
So, there's many avenues and they all have to be covered at once as much as they possibly can with the assistance of law enforcement and intelligence services throughout the world. The FBI has a large office in London. They'll be assisting in looking at their intelligence and any information they may have as well as querying the, you know, the worldwide network of law enforcement and Intel services.
[22:55:08] LEMON: Yes. Tom, thank you very much. I want to bring in now, Jim. Jim, let's talk about the human aspect of this before we move on to talk about other things.
Because you hear from a mother like Charlotte talking about her daughter, Olivia wanting to get information out there. These parents, everyone, family members want as much help as they can possibly get and right now they're reaching out to anyone, even the news media to get the word out about their relatives who are missing and they haven't heard from them.
JIM MAXWELL, RETIRED SPECIAL AGENT, FBI: Don, I can tell you that the demographic of this incident is particularly horrendous. Young children. This is a relatively new tactic. I can't imagine what the families and relatives of these children are going through now.
And also I would point put the first responders. I can tell you in my career, anytime I had to deal with the death of a child, it's something that stays with you forever. Those -- that's going to be the aftermath of this event, people dealing with that.
But this is the tactic of targeting this event after the event is significant in my eyes. Many times we go to these venues and they're very particular and there's a lot of scrutiny about people going into these events, but this little or no scrutiny on people coming out of these events.
And show points like transportation centers, parking lots, large exits are primary targets. This is a chess game. These people watch these events and they look for the weakest points.
LEMON: We are just getting, Bob, I need to say we're getting -- Ariana Grande is tweeting now. I just want to put it up on the screen. She's saying, "Broken from the bottom of my heart. I am so sorry. I don't have words."
And that is understandable. Bob, when speaking to that mother, I didn't have words as well. Obviously, that mother reached out to CNN because she wanted to get the information out about her daughter and her daughter's best friend. Ariana Grande saying there are no words tonight, and there are no words tonight, Bob Baer.
BOB BAER, INTELLIGENCE AND SECURITY ANALYST, CNN: There are none at all. It's such a senseless act attacking children who have no political connection with what's going on in the Middle East.
I've seen these bombings in Israel and it's without pity and they intentionally target children and that's part of strategy, their strategy is to kill children to shock us to get us to change our ways. What they don't realize it just makes it worse for everybody.
But these people -- I've been in those areas in Manchester and I interviewed them. They are completely isolated from British society, alienated like you can't believe, refuse to talk to us. And during the two bombings when so many more people were killed in the same fashion, they were indifferent.
And again, I think we have to remember how easy it is to make these bombs. If this turns ought to be acetone and peroxide, it's one person in the kitchen who make these things along with the detonator. You put in metal shrapnel and you can kill this many people just one person.
What we really need know is if this is part of a bigger cell. Because if it is there will be more attacks and the British are very good. But they're go having to to close this down (technical difficulty).
LEMON: National security analyst Juliette Kayyem also joins us. Again, and Juliette, you were the first one to bring up the aspect of the children here. Maximum impact and that maximum impact is fear. And you -- nothing strikes fear more than children and the vulnerability of children, parents, any love one can tell you that.
KAYYEM: Right. So those who know Ariana Grande, you know, she's sort of fearless and a lot of the girls who like her sort of emulate that fearlessness. And so, but right now there's just a lot of fear.
It's terrifying to think as we all do to send your child to the other side of a security point to have a good time and then not be able to see them on the other end. And so, but that's the purpose here. And I always like to leave people with advice rather than fear.
You cannot stop all these things from happening but thinking through family unification becomes of utmost importance as we do this public events as summer comes along we're coming to a long weekend. Think it through.
Once you are with your child, that is all that matters. Every parent listening knows that and my heart goes out to that mother and I just hope we can -- I hope she finds her and this one is just different. Stepping out of my analyst role, this one is horrifying.
[22:59:58] LEMON: Well, our thoughts and prayers go out to everyone involved. All the families and mothers and the fathers out there, and again, speaking to that mom tonight, Charlotte, I was at a loss of words as to what to say to her. And we hope that she is reunited with her daughter.
