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Don Lemon Tonight
Trump Expects U.N. Leaders to be Impressed; Republicans and Democrats to Question Kavanaugh and Ford on Thursday. Aired 10-11p ET
Aired September 25, 2018 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[22:00:00] (JOINED IN PROGRESS)
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST: I take your calls. We get at it. I love it. CNN Tonight with Don Lemon starts right now. You don't call. You don't care.
DON LEMON, CNN HOST: You're on the comedy channel over there on Sirius, right.
CUOMO: You see my face? This is my look that says, I can take you whenever I want, but I don't feel one way or the other about it.
LEMON: OK. Serious stuff. I know you and I joke around a lot.
CUOMO: Yes.
LEMON: I like your optimism. I like what you just said there about separating kids. But do you remember, you're more optimistic than I am. I used to think I was an optimist. I haven't been recently.
When I said, hey, we're going to move on to something else, this problem will not be solved, some of these children may never be returned to their families. Do you remember I said that to you?
CUOMO: Yes.
LEMON: We moved on. You said that we weren't going to move on. But it's sad that we did, and I like that you are putting the focus back on this, and I hope that he responds to you.
CUOMO: I will not move on. The secretary should take the invitation. What she said about the policy is not true, about what the intentions of the policy are in the memo.
And look, news is always going to get in the way, Don. We get that. But as long as we get back to it, we're going to be OK. We'll do that here, and I know you do it as well.
LEMON: I feel that our conversation about what happened with Senator Ted Cruz was cut short, and, you know, I don't have -- I haven't checked social media. I don't know what people are saying. I'm sure I'm being roasted by some people.
CUOMO: Not on my watch. LEMON: I don't really care about that. But I do, again, as I said, I
don't really agree with it, but, listen, sometimes when you're powerless, you feel that's the only option that you have, and sometimes that is the only option that you have. And, remember, protests, freedom of speech, all that, it's not supposed to be comfortable, right?
CUOMO: True. A hundred percent. Listen--
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: And you come from a political family. Listen I wouldn't want that happening to your family but, you know--
(CROSSTALK)
CUOMO: It's happened.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: It's happened. I mean that's one of the things -- you said you sign up for it. Maybe that's where my sensitivity comes in play because I hope that the assumption is always decency even if that's not the follow-through. My point with this is time, place, and manner.
LEMON: Exactly.
(CROSSTALK)
CUOMO: Now, you say well, we're not going to be--
LEMON: Not letting them out of the restaurant and all that, cornering, no, no, no. You can't, you shouldn't be able to do that. Go on. Sorry.
CUOMO: Yes. And also, look, I think when you're going to get into it, you have to know what you're going to get out of it, OK?
LEMON: Right.
CUOMO: That's a good line. I didn't come up with it. When you're going to get into it, you got to know what you're going to get out of it. I would ask what the analysis on that was for Cruz of what they did to Cruz. If it's just to get us to talk about it, well, they achieved that. But is this the way they wanted it talked about? We'll see.
LEMON: Yes. Well, remember, lunch counters and--
(CROSSTALK)
CUOMO: Yes, but that was something different. That was something different. When you talk about the voiceless, those without power, where the system was designed against them -- you know, not every protest is equal. Victims of sexual assault deserve attention. The Me Too movement has done a mitzvah as they would say in Judaism. LEMON: But the system wasn't set up for women in this country. The
system wasn't set up for minorities in this country. The system was set up for people like Ted Cruz in this country.
CUOMO: True.
LEMON: And Ted Cruz should be keenly aware of that.
CUOMO: True.
LEMON: All right. I got to go.
CUOMO: He is.
LEMON: Go on.
CUOMO: You know, we're not far apart on this because we all want the same resolution, which is pay attention to these people. Help with the situation. Don't do what you're doing with the confirmation hearing right now, which is reinforcing that what they say doesn't matter even though it's their truth.
LEMON: You know what everyone is saying in my ear right now? We got so much--
(CROSSTALK)
CUOMO: I know, I know, I know.
LEMON: It's all right. I like talking to you.
CUOMO: But you know what, you make good points. The pleasure is mine, my friend.
LEMON: Yes, always. OK. Nice job. Thank you for bringing attention to the children at the border. Keep at it, Chris. Keep up it. What do you say? Let's get after it. Keep getting after it, and I'll tune into -- I think it's on the what, is it the POTUS channel?
CUOMO: Yes, POTUS channel Sirius XM 124. I'll give you number, I'll text it to you.
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: All right. Thanks, Chris. See you later.
This is CNN Tonight. I'm Don Lemon.
So the president of the United States is a man who prides himself on being a winner, a man who brags about his strength and being a fighter. A man who never met a red carpet he didn't like and basks in praise and cheers. Well, today his bubble was burst on the world stage, literally.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Today I stand before the United Nations General Assembly to share the extraordinary progress we've made.
In less than two years, my administration has accomplished more than almost any administration in the history of our country. America -- so true. Didn't expect that reaction, but that's OK.
(APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: That is what happens when you continually go back to the well of adoring crowds and supporters. Reality suddenly just smacks you in the face.
World leaders essentially telling the emperor he has no clothes. Laughter was the last thing President Trump expected when he made that boast. You heard him say so. He said it himself.
[22:04:59] Leaders from around the world definitely did not respond with the kind of reaction that he's used to getting from crowds of supporters at campaign rallies. It is no coincidence, by the way, that the vast majority of those rallies -- look at that map -- are held in red states, where the president can be assured of the reaction he wants.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Guided by these shared values, we've already accomplished more than anyone ever dreamed possible. A year and a half. That's all it is. We have not let you down. I'll never let you down. Never.
(APPLAUSE)
TRUMP: We passed the largest tax cuts and reform in American history.
(APPLAUSE)
TRUMP: Somebody from the news -- I won't call it in this case fake news because he turns out to be right -- said Trump is one the only people ever that actually accomplished more than he promised, and it's true. I accomplished. I'm a politician, I guess.
We've already made tremendous progress, far greater than I would have thought. I will tell you this in a non-braggadocios way. There has never been a 10-month president that has accomplished what we have accomplished. That I can tell you.
(APPLAUSE)
TRUMP: That I can tell you.
(END VIDEO CLIP) LEMON: Largest tax cut, not true. Accomplished more, not true. Remember the wall thing? Mexico is going to pay for it. But true to form, President Trump says he actually did very well in his speech today at the United Nations. And even though you heard him say he didn't expect to be laughed at, now he's claiming he was in on this joke.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How do you think your speech went today?
TRUMP: I think really well. It's gotten very good reviews certainly, and I think it went very well.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And you're blushing. Did you get anything from the laughter, what did you feel about that?
TRUMP: It was great. It was meant to get some laughs. I thought it was great.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Even if that were true, the podium at the United Nations is not a comedy club. Now, if there is one thing that Donald Trump doesn't like -- well, let's face it. There are a lot of things Donald Trump doesn't like, but I'm not sure I really have enough time to run through the list.
But he really, really doesn't like being laughed at. He certainly didn't like it sitting stone faced at the White House correspondents' dinner in 2011 when President Obama roasted him from the podium.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA (D), FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: No one is happier, no one is prouder to put this birth certificate matter to rest than the Donald. And that's because he can finally get back to focusing on the issues that matter, like did we fake the moon landing. What really happens in Roswell? And where are Biggie and Tupac?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Well, some say that's the moment that sealed the deal for him. He would run for president and get the respect to which he feels he's entitled. And he couldn't have liked it much today given that he has been complaining for years about everybody around the world he thinks, he thinks is laughing at us.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I know lots of folks in China. They think we are the dumbest son of a (muted) in the world, all right? They think our representatives don't know what they're doing. They laugh at us behind our back. They're sitting around their table just setting the price of oil and
laughing at us.
The world is laughing at us. We're like a bunch of patsies.
The president of China comes over and we have a state dinner for him honoring him. What a great guy. And he's laughing all the way back to China.
We are a whipping post. We are a laughingstock as a country. We're not respected anymore.
When do we beat Mexico at the border? They're laughing at us, at our stupidity. We've got China, and they laugh at us. They think we're stupid people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Well, given all that, it's probably no coincidence that President Trump just hours after looking like the butt of a joke with the whole world watching, it's probably no coincidence that he went on the attack today, slamming one of the women who's accusation threatened to derail the nomination of Brett Kavanaugh to the Supreme Court. One of the key promises he made to his supporters by the way.
He tweeted one week ago that the Supreme Court is one of the main reasons he was elected. Now, it's important to know that we don't have evidence that proves what Christine Blasey Ford says Brett Kavanaugh did to her when they were both teenagers.
We don't have evidence that proves what Deborah Ramirez says Kavanaugh did to her when they were both students at Yale. And Judge Kavanaugh denies the accusations. But I want you to listen to what President Trump said, particularly about the accusations of Deborah Ramirez.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: He's never been here before. He's never had any charges like this. I mean charges come up from 36 years ago that are totally unsubstantiated, and now a new charge comes up, and she said, well, it might not be him, and there were gaps.
[22:10:08] And she said she was totally inebriated, and she was all messed up. And she doesn't know if it was him, but it might have been him. Gee, let's not make him a Supreme Court judge because of that. This is a con game being played by the Democrats.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Well, unfortunately it is really no surprise that President Trump would mock the very idea of a woman's accusations derailing a man's career.
Remember this. At least 15 women have come forward with a wide range of accusations against Trump himself, ranging from sexual harassment and sexual assault to lewd behavior. And remember that Donald Trump is the man who was caught on tape saying this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I've got to use some Tic Tacs just in case I start kissing her. You know, I'm automatically attracted to beautiful. I just start kissing them. It's like a magnet. I just kiss. I don't even wait. And when you're a star, they let you do it. You can do anything.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Whatever you want.
TRUMP: Grab them by the pussy. You can do anything.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: So now, in what may be a measure of just how serious all this is for Donald Trump's presidency, he has decided to do something he hasn't done in more than 586 days.
He's decided to hold a solo press conference tomorrow just hours before Christine Blasey Ford testifies against Brett Kavanaugh. You know what they say. Timing is everything.
And it's time now to talk to the people who are paying close attention to all of this today, and that is CNN's chief White House correspondent, Mr. Jim Acosta, CNN senior political commentator, David Axelrod, and CNN global affairs analyst, Susan Glasser. Good evening to all of you. David, that moment at the United Nations, what did you think of that?
DAVID AXELROD, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, you know, the president's speech was really written as much for a domestic audience as the people in the room. And as you pointed out, he repeated a line that he's been using everywhere.
But this wasn't an adoring crowd. This was a very -- this was a very jaundiced crowd because the president, as he did again in this speech, was very, very violative of this notion of global institutions and international cooperation and was preaching the gospel of self- interest country by country.
And so they were not primed to give him a big hand for self-adulation. It was a poorly considered opening line, and I think he got a sense of where he stands in the world community right now.
LEMON: I was thinking the whole time, like who -- who decided to let him -- the speechwriters, like why would they allow him--
(CROSSTALK)
JIM ACOSTA, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Stephen Miller.
LEMON: Yes. Stephen Miller written all over it. I want to put up these headlines, Jim Acosta. From Russia to China, to England to Spain, all noting world leaders laughed at President Trump. Was this a reality check for this president, you think? ACOSTA: I think it was, Don. I mean, the U.N. this week is a side
show to the - you know what show back in Washington, first of all. But I talked to a foreign diplomat who was with a U.S. ally earlier today, and this person said, listen, the president may not fully understand, may not completely understand what happened at that U.N. speech. They were laughing at the president of the United States.
Americans have to sit back and let that wash over them and decide for themselves whether or not, you know, that's something that we should all absorb as Americans having the president being laughed at the United Nations especially given the fact that the president has railed against Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton, and all sorts of Democrats over the years for putting a situation together where the U.S. is laughed at.
That was one of his, as you played in that clip, and we heard it almost every day out on the campaign trail and here he was being laughed at.
LEMON: Can I jump in, Jim?
ACOSTA: Yes.
LEMON: The people at the U.N., the world leaders, they don't care about the ideological landscape of the United States.
ACOSTA: No.
LEMON: Republican versus Democrat or whether Trump supporters or whatever -- they don't care about those things. They care about facts and not alternative facts, and I think that was the emperor is wearing no clothes.
ACOSTA: I think that's a perfect analogy. The president is used to not only going to adoring crowds, as you mentioned going around the country. He's used to going around the table and having cabinet members and top officials address him almost as dear leader as they tick off all the things that's happening beautifully inside the administration.
And for, you know, for once he went in front of a crowd where people are not reading off a script. People are not getting their talking points from conservative media. And they laughed at him. The Germans were laughing at one point visibly on camera.
LEMON: Yes.
ACOSTA: And it's obviously not something that you want to see any president of the United States go through, Republican or Democrat.
LEMON: Yes. Susan, two hours after that speech, the president abandoned any restraint that he had of one of the women accusing Brett Kavanaugh of sexual misconduct and went on a wholesale attack. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) [22:15:09] TRUMP: I think it's horrible what the Democrats have done. It's a con game they're playing. They're really con artists. They don't believe it themselves, OK? They know he's a high-quality person. They don't believe it.
Thirty six years ago? Nobody ever knew about it? Nobody ever heard about it? And now a new charge comes up, and she said, well, it might not be him, and there were gaps, and she said she was totally inebriated and she was all messed up. And she doesn't know if it was him, but it might have been him. Gee, let's not make him a Supreme Court judge because of that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Wow. Susan, do you think that maybe him getting laughed at and then lashing out, do you think they're connected?
SUSAN GLASSER, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Look, President Trump has a long history of, you know, distracting from the burning building over there by setting himself on fire or some other convenient object. And we've seen this time and time again.
He has a very unusual political way of not running away from controversies but seeking to create other ones. Given that his staff work so hard when the initial allegations from Dr. Ford were made public to try to constrain him, to stop him from treating -- to stop him from attacking her, as you know, in the Woodward book, President Trump is quoted at one point talking about his way of dealing with allegations of misconduct. He said deny, deny, deny.
And so the fact that he's taking such a different tone as the stakes in the Kavanaugh hearing heat up, you know, we're getting closer to Thursday. In the middle of this really public humiliation, not just for the president, I should underscore, but many observers that I talked to, diplomats who have attended every one of these meetings for decades, no one has ever seen the United States of America laughed at.
That's who Trump is representing. They're not a political party. And I have to say another thing. You made an excellent point, Don, in the opening tonight that we don't know the facts when it comes to these allegations against Brett Kavanaugh, right? And we don't really seem to have a process right now for determining them.
And it's just -- it's so painful to look at this conversation playing out and think, you know, there are no such thing as Democratic or Republican sexual assault victims.
LEMON: Thank you.
GLASSER: And the idea that we don't even have a process--
(CROSSTALK)
AXELROD: Can I--
LEMON: Yes. Yes. Did you finish your point, Susan? I think you did. AXELROD: Don, Don?
LEMON: Go ahead, David.
AXELROD: Don, just let me make a couple of points. First of all, I said at the beginning that this speech wasn't really for the people in that room. And for the president's base, the fact that he got ridiculed in that room probably matters little.
It may even be a certification of something positive to them because he's run against the idea of globalism, and he's run against international institutions, and he's run against this notion of infringing on American sovereignty from the beginning.
And in some ways he may -- I'm sure he didn't like getting laughed at in that room, but on the whole, they wrote a speech to be provocative. That was really for their base, people who think UNGA is what happens when you don't eat, right? Not -- they have no idea what UNGA is.
But on the second point that Susan was making, it isn't just the president who has treated these women disrespectfully in the last 48 hours. The whole strategy of the Republicans in the Senate has shifted. The majority leader calling it a smear.
You know, Brett Kavanaugh last night suggesting, well, maybe Dr. Ford was the victim of a sexual assault. I'm not questioning that. I just wasn't the one who did it, as if one doesn't remember who it was who -- you know, she's confused. And now they've set a deadline to vote on this on Friday morning.
In other words, let's check the box on Thursday and we'll vote on Friday and get this done.
LEMON: Yes.
AXELROD: So the disrespect isn't just flowing from the president. It's from the entire team Kavanaugh operation.
LEMON: There's a lot of disrespect to go around. You guys are going to come back. Can you hold that till the next block? Listen, United Nations General Assembly by the way in case you were wondering what David was talking about.
Stick around. When we come back, I want to talk about something a lot of us were beginning to think that President Trump would never do again, and that's hold a solo press conference. So why is he doing one tomorrow?
[22:20:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: So the president may be very worried about Christine Blasey Ford's hearing on Thursday because he's holding a solo news conference tomorrow and he promises to answer questions about the news of the day. And we all know he's got the Kavanaugh hearings on his mind, so just imagine what he'll say. Jim Acosta is back, David Axelrod, and Susan Glasser. So, listen,
depending on how you count, they said, 586 days he hasn't held a press conference. There was one in NATO but officially--
ACOSTA: Right.
LEMON: -- there's a discrepancy, but they don't hold eventual press conferences.
ACOSTA: No, my goodness. This is the first one I can recall they announced a day in advance. The first, you know, the first full solo press conference that they've announced a day in advance. In Singapore it sort of happened at the end of the day at the end of that summit, and same when he was in Brussels at NATO.
So this is, I mean, this is definitely unique and he's going to be asked a whole range of questions not just about the Kavanaugh process, which I'm told by one Senate Republican say they just wish the president would stop making these kinds of comments about this. They feel like from the president on down, they all need to tread lightly if they want to get moderate Republicans.
But Dos, he's also going to be asked about Rod Rosenstein. Remember that story. That story is waiting for him. He's supposed to meet with Rod Rosenstein, the deputy attorney general, about that controversy on Thursday, and I was told by a White House official earlier this evening that it won't be surprising if Rod Rosenstein stays around.
So, there's just a whole slew of questions for this president to be asked. But at the end of the day, I think, you know, I think he's going to have something of a Me Too moment at this press conference, Don, because I think people are going to ask him over and over again, why is it that you always seem to stand with the accused and not the accusers?
You know, for example, today he's going off on Deborah Ramirez, you know, talking about how she was drunk and so on and so forth, the words that he used, without hearing these things out.
LEMON: Roy Moore.
[22:24:59] ACOSTA: Yes, exactly, Roy Moore, Rob Porter and so on. There's a pattern.
LEMON: Yes. It's interesting. Susan, I want to get you to weigh in on this. Let me just say this before I get you to weigh in because I'm going to talk about the person -- the people who are going to be, you know, questioning these two people.
The Senate judiciary committee hired a female outside counsel to question Ford and Kavanaugh. This is Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell describing her and why they need her. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R), MAJORITY LEADER, KENTUCKY: We have hired a female assistant to go on staff and to ask these questions in a respectful and professional way. We want this hearing to be handled very professionally, not a political sideshow like you saw put on by the Democrats when they were questioning Judge Kavanaugh.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: There's a lot there. I mean there's no women on that committee, right? A female assistant, so they can ask questions in a respectful and professional way. Are they not capable of doing that themselves?
GLASSER: Well, not only that, Don, but they've just announced tonight the identity of the attorney who will be apparently questioning Dr. Ford at the hearing on Thursday.
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: This is according to the Washington Post, but go on.
GLASSER: That's right. They just put out a press release as well.
(CROSSTALK)
ACOSTA: Senator Grassley's office also put--
LEMON: Yes.
GLASSER: Yes. It's a sex crimes prosecutor, so the message that's being sent is that the woman who has come forward with this allegation needs to have a prosecutor questioning her. She's also been denigrated as a female assistant by the Senate majority leader 27 years after the Anita Hill hearings.
There is not only no Republican woman on the judiciary committee, there has never been in the history of the Senate judiciary committee a Republican woman who has served there for Democratic women now.
You know, we've all been seeing these stories on social media, on many terrific publications have published really, you know, rage-inducing accounts of women coming forward years in many cases later and talking about why they also, like Dr. Ford is alleged to have experienced with Brett Kavanaugh, didn't come forward.
Can you imagine any woman having the bravery, if something like this happened to her, to be subjected to the president of the United States attacking her in this fashion?
LEMON: Yes.
GLASSER: I mean it just -- it's really one of those moments that, you know, on the one hand there's this political process unfolding that we're talking about tonight. On the other hand, this is also a cultural moment it seems to me that we're experiencing.
LEMON: Yes. GLASSER: And I would not underestimate the rage of women who have experienced these kinds of things firsthand, looking at a bunch of men in Washington.
LEMON: The optics, yes.
GLASSER: Who don't get it. Who don't get it.
LEMON: Yes. Especially and we're talking about why they chose an outside -- you gave -- you're going to have on the Democratic side women who will be questioning them, and then you have no women on the Republican side, so the optics are bad.
But David, I want to get, before we go, I want to get this in. I have to point out this ridiculous comment. It's made by North Dakota Representative Kevin Cramer. He says the allegation of sexual assault, even if true, should not disqualify Kavanaugh, he says.
He says, well, "She admits she was a 15-year-old that had been drinking at a party that I mean how many 15-year-olds handle a lot of alcohol, you know, 36 years ago?" Wow, what do you say to that?
AXELROD: Yes. Well, I think it may disqualify Cramer in his race for the Senate. I mean, it was such an obtuse remark. But I think Kavanaugh is going to face a lot of questions about the image he tried to present last night on Fox of this kind of pious choir boy living this wholesome life when he by his own testimony in speeches at Yale and elsewhere has talked about exactly what his drinking habits were.
And they were -- they were not -- they don't match up with what happened. I will point out one other thing about the press conference tomorrow, Don.
One other event we didn't discuss was the fact that Bill Cosby got sentenced today, and there were 60 women going back four decades who had made allegations against Bill Cosby. Only one was able to bring the case against him, and I wonder what the president thinks about that, where those other 59 women, should they be discounted? So I think that will come up as well. So when Jim says a Me Too moment, that he may genuinely face one.
LEMON: Yes. Well, you made my tease for me because that is what we're going to talk about in the next segment. So thank you for saying that, David. And thank you all. I appreciate your time, and I appreciate your expertise on this. We'll be right back.
[22:30:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:30:01] DON LEMON, CNN TONIGHT, ANCHOR: OK. So listen close. Bill Cosby is in prison tonight. Bill Cosby is in prison tonight, something I could not have imagined saying just a few years ago in all of my years growing up. Cosby was sentenced to three to 3 to 10 years in prison for drugging and assaulting Andrea Constand back in 2004. In a press conference after the hearing, prosecutors talked about how
the ugly reality of Cosby's crimes finally caught up with his once squeaky clean public image.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: For decades, the defendant has been able to hide his true self and hide his crimes, using his fame and fortune. He's hidden behind a character created, Dr. Cliff Huxtable. It was a seminal character on TV, and so was the family, but it was fiction.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: I said this last night. Not so long ago, Bill Cosby was America's dad. His character and his TV family were an iconic representation of the African-American family. And Cosby commanded a lot of respect in the black community. So it was pretty shocking but perhaps not too surprising when today, his defenders, his last remaining die-hard supporters framed his downfall in terms of race.
It's more than a little ironic that the man who made respectability politics a huge part of his message and preached about the morality in the black community took no responsibility for his own actions, his own behavior. Remember self-responsibility? He used to talk about it all the time. Well, his spokespeople blamed racism, sexism, portrayed him as a victim. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[22:34:57] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Cosby's doing great. And Mr. Cosby knows that God is watching over him. He knows that these are lies. They persecuted Jesus, and look what happened. I am not saying Mr. Cosby is Jesus, but we need to know what this country has done to black men for centuries.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: With at least 60 accusations against Cosby, his accusers began to come out with such regularity that their stories were so horrifying that it became a steady drip that could not be ignored in the MeToo era. There were a lot of legal twists and turns to get to this point today. The incredible sight of Bill Cosby in handcuffs, being led to prison while wrapping up the trial, the judge, Steven O'Neill, said no one is above the law and no one should be treated differently or disproportionately.
By the way, that picture you're looking at, can you put that back up? That's his mug shot. That's his mug shot. Those are important words that the judge said to keep in mind. In this MeToo era, this trial plays out to its conclusion while another proceeding in Washington waits. One person making that connection explicitly, and that's Bill Cosby's publicist.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What is going on in Washington today with Judge Kavanaugh is part of the sex war that Judge O'Neill along with his wife are a part of.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: A sex war? Right now, a Supreme Court nominee faces two allegations of sexual assault or misconduct from his time in high school and his time in college back in the late 1980s. Kavanaugh denies that they ever happened. Now, I want you to hear me very clearly here, OK? The accusations are nowhere near the scale of what Cosby allegedly did to 60 women over the course of decades.
And I am not saying that they are, OK? The things Kavanaugh is accused of may or may not have happened. We don't know. And it's likely we will -- we won't know unless there is an investigation. And that's the whole point of it, right? When Bill Cosby was initially accused, many people for many years could not believe it.
The women's accounts were questioned. It took a very long time and a lot of investigating and multiple proceedings before there was a verdict as to the truth of what really happened. This is what you need when you want to determine a finding of fact. And legal experts like our Jeffrey Toobin, well, they point out that's what's missing in what's being planned in Washington for Thursday, a real investigation.
It might get us closer to the truth, to the facts. It might clear Judge Kavanaugh or it might validate his accusers' accounts. Republican Senator, Lisa Murkowski, made the same point to our Manu Raju today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Should there be a full FBI investigation into these allegations from Kavanaugh's past?
LISA MURKOWSKI, (R) UNITED STATES SENATOR: Well, it would sure clear up all the questions, wouldn't it?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: But the White House will not ask the FBI to investigate. There is going to be a Senate hearing, but only Christine Blasey Ford, the accuser, and Kavanaugh are testifying. No subpoena for a Mark Judge, the only witness named by Christine Blasey Ford. No testimony by the polygraph expert who tested for it or by trauma experts as Ford has asked.
And the Senate Judiciary Committee is going to vote on Kavanaugh just a day after the hearing. Just today, they already set it, put it on the schedule. Why the rush, though? A lot of Senate Republicans are suggesting that the allegations are part of a political conspiracy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, it's amazing to me that these allegations come out of nowhere at the last minute, and that they weren't brought up earlier in this process. And it's not untypical for our friends on the other side to pull that kind of crap. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The weaponization of unsubstantiated smears,
that's what we have here.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: And by the way, they have the backing of the President, who is accused of sexual misconduct by 19 women himself.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PRES. DONALD TRUMP (R), UNITED STATES PRESIDENT: I think it's horrible what the Democrats have done. It's a con game they're playing. They're really con artists. They're trying to convince -- you know, they don't believe it themselves, OK? They know he's a high-quality person. They don't believe it. It's just resists and obstruct.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Hmm. There is an old saying. The truth will come out. It just might not happen on the Senate's timeline. Maybe a better saying is the truth will set you free. Obviously, there's a lot more to say about this. And when we come back, Keith Boykin is here, Tara Setmayer as well, Julie Jackson. They're going to get a chance to tell us what they think.
[22:40:05]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: So as I told you, Bill Cosby was sentenced today to 3 to 10 years in prison for drugging and assaulting Andrea Constand back in 2004. And then shortly after the sentencing, Cosby's publicist blamed racism and suggested a so-called sex war against both Cosby and Judge Brett Kavanaugh. So let's bring in now CNN Political Commentators Keith Boykin, Tara Setmayer, and CNN Legal Analyst Joey Jackson.
OK. Hello, we have a lot of territory to cover. So talk fast. Joey, you were in court today when the sentence was handed down. What was that like?
JOEY JACKSON, LEGAL ANALYST, CNN: It was a big moment, Don, without question. I was in an overflow courtroom, and the judge went on for quite a while. The judge laid out his reasoning as to why it would happen. The judge talked about the rehabilitation aspects. The judge talked about punishment and deterrence. Spoke about the victims, specifically Andrea Constand and the victim impact statements, the gravity of the offense.
[22:45:07] And it was just a buildup. It wasn't immediate. The judge took his time in speaking about why he was doing what he was doing, and saying about Cosby that he's not above the law. And the judge was required, as the judge said, to do what I need to do in order to protect the community. And so when the judge handed down the sentence, it was almost surreal, like -- you know, as in disbelief that the judge said 3 to 10. And a lot of people thought that that would not happen. And in that
room, Don, quickly, there were a number of prior accusers there. There were a number of jurors who participated in the trial there. And it was just an unbelievable historic moment that Cosby was going to jail. And just briefly, there was a little bit of argument as to whether he should stay out pending appeal, right, on bail.
And the judge ultimately said, no, you're going in. They took charge. Cuffs went on, and Cosby right now, you know, the father of America, America's dad is in jail.
LEMON: I am glad you said cuffs because if we can -- that video, it is surreal. Every time you see that, Keith Boykin and Tara Setmayer. I mean look at that, Bill Cosby, America's dad. But let me get to your tweet real quick here. You said Bill Cosby's sentenced 3 to 10 years for sexual assault that took place years ago.
But Brett Kavanaugh can still go to the U.S. Supreme Court without even an FBI investigation into sexual assault allegations against him. Allegations obviously drastically different, a drastically different scale here, but what are you saying with that?
KEITH BOYKIN, POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, CNN: Well, I am certainly not a Bill Cosby apologist. He lost me 14 years ago when he gave that infamous pound cake speech about respectability politics. But I do think definitely justice was served by Bill Cosby getting a sentence, 3 to 10 years seems to be appropriate. Maybe some people could say it could be longer. But the point is that nobody is above the law.
But at the same time, we're communicating a different message with Brett Kavanaugh, not because it's a similar case, but because we're not even investigating the allegations with Brett Kavanaugh. There are credible allegations that have been made by three different women, two, possibly three different women about Brett Kavanaugh.
And the FBI investigation that could help to clear up those questions and provide some answers won't even happen because the Senate Republicans are just determined to plow right through it as Senator Mitch McConnell said.
LEMON: Well, we were talking about it in the break about this meme going around, that, you know, because -- saying that, oh, there's a different standard because outside of the courtroom, race was brought up.
TARA SETMAYER, POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, CNN: Right.
LEMON: In court today. And then -- but there were -- there have been lots of white men, a number of white men who lost their jobs, didn't go to prison, right, for sexual misconduct, Roger Ailes, Bill O'Reilly, Matt Lauer just to name a few.
SETMAYER: Yeah. I mean there have been a lot of titans of industry, especially in media, that have paid the price with their careers.
LEMON: But they're sleeping on their piles of money. SETMAYER: True. That's true. But they weren't charged criminally.
So that's the difference here. I mean I understand that some people feel as though that there's -- things are unjust. And in the criminal justice system, there are legitimate cases of that. I just don't think that's the case here. And Bill Cosby's representatives are doing him a disservice by making these asinine comparisons to Jesus, as if he's the persecuted one.
We're talking about 60-plus women that were abused by this man, potentially raped in some cases. And this is -- it was disgusting. And I am sorry that people are crushed that America's dad is now in prison, but that's exactly where he belongs for the rest of his life. And justice has finally been served for these women. And it goes to show -- and quickly, the timing of this is awful for Republicans.
LEMON: Yeah.
SETMAYER: Because it reminds people that even though allegations can be 10, 20, 30 years ago, that doesn't mean they're any less credible.
LEMON: Exactly.
SETMAYER: So that brings that conversation back to the fore concerning Kavanaugh.
LEMON: We'll talk more about that right after the break. By the way, being crushed, I don't -- listen. I just think it's surprising to see America's dad -- not that he doesn't deserve to be in handcuffs, but who would have thought that, hey, hey, hey, it's Fat Albert.
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: No, we got past that, but just to see. It was -- reality set in.
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: I got to go. We'll talk more. We'll be right back.
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[22:50:00] LEMON: Keith, Tara, and Joey are back with me. So Joey, listen. I am not casting doubt on the allegations made by Ford or Ramirez. But false accusations get made sometimes, very rarely, very small percentage. And there is some question about, you know, how you -- how police agencies figure out whether it's a false allegation or not.
Isn't this why it's all the more important that sexual misconduct claims can be investigated thoroughly?
JACKSON: Yeah, you know, that's the issue, Don. The reality is we don't know what's right, what's wrong in terms of what's true or what's untrue. And that's why you have to subject them to a very thorough examination. And, you know, I don't get for the life of me, if you're going to have a hearing, don't have a show hearing. Have a hearing that makes sense.
Have a hearing that probes the truth and that ultimately gets to the truth. And when you just call two parties to make it can what she said and make it what he said without calling any underlying investigation, calling any of the other parties, getting any of the other recent outcry witnesses or documentation or therapist notes, it just looks like window dressing.
And I just think at the end of the day, Don, everyone has to be treated equally. And power can really -- it should not really take over truth. And that I think is what's happening here. And it's a big problem.
LEMON: (Inaudible) because the Cosby allegations went back decades, but him going to prison doesn't that get rid of the whole idea that old allegations don't really matter or they don't count?
SETMAYER: Yeah. I mean I started before the break making that point. The timing of this reopens that conversation because that's what Republicans have been using to try to discredit the Kavanaugh accusers. And that's just not fair. There's a plethora of studies done about why sexual assault victims don't come forward right away and how people process emotional trauma.
[22:55:04] I mean my own -- my -- there's people in my own family who were sexually molested by a family member on the other side, and didn't even have any recollection of that until in therapy at 60 years old. So there's -- and the Republicans know that this line of, well, it happened so long ago. That is not the way to approach this to try to discredit these sexual assault victims.
LEMON: But it's going out in the echo chamber.
SETMAYER: Yeah. It is. Clearly, it is a show trial. They're not interested in the truth.
LEMON: I want to give you the last word here, because -- absolutely -- here. They're going ahead with the vote. Last word, but they're going to go ahead on Friday, the day after it's scheduled.
BOYKIN: Yeah. I mean this is a sham hearing basically. Mitch McConnell already said they're going to plow through it. Lindsey Graham said I'll listen to the lady. Those were his words. But we're going to close this thing out. And Trump is basically...
LEMON: Why do they have her coming?
BOYKIN: Why are they having a hearing?
(CROSSTALK)
BOYKIN: It took the FBI 30 days to conduct an investigation in Anita Hill allegations (Inaudible). During the 10 days we've been talking about this, they could have had an investigation and gotten to the bottom of it, but they're not interested in the truth. They're interested in persecution. SETMAYER: Because some of Kavanaugh's character witnesses have a lot
of problems like Mark Judge and others. And this whole virginal choir boy act that he put on in that Fox News interview did not help his situation either, because it just strains (Inaudible) that he didn't involve himself in any of this frat boy partying there, when there's a lot of evidence that that actually went on. So that's the problem. They don't want that uncovered.
LEMON: Thank you, Tara. Thank you, Keith. Thank you, Joey. I appreciate it.
JACKSON: Equal justice for all.
LEMON: Thank you. Well said. Thank you, Joey. We'll be right back.
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