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Don Lemon Tonight
Trump Rips Off Dr. Ford's Credibility; Kavanaugh Admits Being a Heavy Drinker; Explosive New Report from "The New York Times;" Brett Kavanaugh's Nomination to the Supreme Court. Aired 10-11p ET
Aired October 02, 2018 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[22:00:00] (JOINED IN PROGRESS)
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST: Thanks for watching. "CNN TONIGHT" with Don Lemon starts right now.
DON LEMON, CNN HOST: No evidence. I've spoken to biographers of Donald Trump, people who have known him for years. Among them, Tim O'Brien. You know him.
CUOMO: I worked with him on our investigation at ABC.
LEMON: William Cohen, David Cay Johnston, right, Michael D'Antonio. They said there is absolutely no proof that he is even a billionaire. So if his money had just sat there, he may have been worth more than what he -- you know, than what he really is worth now. Now he proclaims to be worth.
CUOMO: He's a great salesman. He's a great marketer. He's great at getting people to believe things. Whether they're the right things, whether they're true, whether they're virtuous, that's something else.
If you had been on these phone calls, Don,--
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: -- you would have -- your head would have fallen off from laughing. I would call him up. I'd say, OK, Tim O'Brien and I and our producers, we've been through all this stuff. Here's the best number that we have. This is what you're worth. He would double it every time, no matter what the number was.
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: I'm going to sue you if you report that.
CUOMO: We would have to negotiate amongst ourselves to low ball him just to hope that when he doubled the number, it was closer to what our reporting was, and he would never show us anything.
And then like an idiot, I threw out the letter that he sent that was clearly written by him, although on legal stationary because at the time I was like, why am I going to keep this? Who knew he was going to be president? But my producer at the time, who is now a big shot, he's the guy in charge of all the investigative reporting at ABC, he remembers the same thing.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: This is what he's always been. He's about the sell.
LEMON: And it's the same thing that writers and people who work with Fortune, you know, and they do the richest people or the net worth. They tell the exact or similar stories that you tell.
But you're right. He's a great salesman. He got a whole bunch of people to believe that he is self-made even when the evidence points in the other direction. I mean look at this. This is, I mean, this is a report from the New York Times. Usually I don't see articles this long except for in the New Yorker, right?
CUOMO: It's the most granular investigation I've ever seen.
LEMON: It's amazing. It's amazing.
CUOMO: On this.
LEMON: I got to tell you, if we can talk for a moment about sexual abuse allegations and Brett Kavanaugh. I spoke at Georgia State today. Every single young woman in the audience and just about every single person in the audience was paying attention to this, is concerned about it, and about someone being on the Supreme Court who just had the allegation, whether it's true or not.
It was surprising to me to see young people so connected to this particular story, and I think ignore those young people who can't who are of voting age at your own peril. That's what I think.
CUOMO: How many of them were saying, as young men or young men thinking about young men, that this was about them? That they're worried about young men and false allegations the way the president is putting out there?
LEMON: Not one. Nobody was. Nobody is worried about young men. That's just not a thing. That is a great talking point. If you're the parent of a young man, there's a very, very simple answer to that as we discussed. You teach your young son, your young man to treat women and everyone with respect.
Then you won't have to worry about it because there will be no evidence of your son, even if falsely accused.
And every time people who come on, especially programs like this, they can point to one or two things where they say, my gosh, remember this happened here. This happened at this university. But it's really one or two cases. It is so rare that a sexual assault is reported that there barely are any. And that's just the truth and the facts there.
CUOMO: And, look, you always want to have it vetted. You always want a fair hearing.
(CROSSTALK) LEMON: It does happen, right.
CUOMO: The presumption of innocence does still exist.
LEMON: Absolutely.
CUOMO: We don't know how to negotiate it yet outside the courtroom because we're finding ourselves through this culturally.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: We have a culture of silence. Now we're swinging the other way. Is there a concern that it goes too far? Of course. But to put that message out as the president, it makes you shake your head.
LEMON: I watched every second of your show. Thank you, sir.
CUOMO: Did you?
LEMON: I did actually.
CUOMO: We're talking about truth here, and you're saying you watched every second of the show.
LEMON: Yes. I did. I watched Eric Holder. I watched you with Stephen Moore.
CUOMO: You know who watched every second?
LEMON: Yes, I know you were going to say my mom.
CUOMO: Your mom watched every second of my show.
LEMON: All right. Good-bye.
CUOMO: Am I lying?
LEMON: See you. I'm not saying.
This is CNN TONIGHT. I'm Don Lemon. Thank you so much for joining us.
President Trump is absolutely going off the rails tonight. Flat-out attacking anybody who could stand in the way of his nomination of Brett Kavanaugh to the Supreme Court. He went even so far as to mock Christine Blasey Ford.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Thirty six years ago this happened. I had one beer, right? I had one beer. Well, you think it was -- no. It was one beer. Good. How did you get home? I don't remember. How did you get there? I don't remember. Where was the place? I don't remember. How many years ago was it? I don't know. I don't know.
(CROWD SCREAMING) [22:04:56] TRUMP: I don't know. I don't know. What neighborhood was it in? I don't know. Where's the house? I don't know. Upstairs, downstairs, where was it? I don't know. But I had one beer. That's the only thing I remember.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: I guess the president is really feeling the pressure tonight because what he says about Professor Ford is just not true, OK? She testified for hours, and she remembered a whole lot more than the fact that she had one beer.
She described the living room on the first floor, the narrow stairs leading to the second floor, the bedroom across from the bathroom, the music playing in the bedroom, and she remembered exactly what happened when she says Brett Kavanaugh got on top of her, groped her according to her, tried to undress her, and put his hands over her mouth to keep her from screaming.
She described her fear that he would accidentally kill her. She was clear about what she couldn't remember as well, and crystal clear about the things she says she can never forget.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRISTINE BLASEY FORD, BRETT KAVANAUGH'S ACCUSER: Indelible in the hippocampus is the laughter, the uproarious laughter between the two and they're having fun at my expense.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: And last week Donald Trump -- last week, just one day after that testimony, the president himself called her a very credible witness.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I thought her testimony was very compelling, and she looks like a very fine woman to me. Very fine woman. Certainly she was a very credible witness.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: So we learned tonight that our president cannot resist mocking a woman who he had called a credible witness in front of a cheering crowd.
And we're learning more tonight about Brett Kavanaugh as well. A letter -- there's a letter that was obtained by "The New York Times" that was written in 1983. We have a copy here. When he was 18 years old.
Kavanaugh writing to his high school buddies. He says this, and I'm quoting. "We're loud, obnoxious drunks with prolific pukers among us." His own words. Not how he presented himself to Fox News or in his committee testimony. The reporter who uncovered that letter is here, and he's going to join
me in just a few minutes and we're going to discuss all of it.
His colleagues at "The New York Times" have another big scoop tonight. A massive investigation, in fact. "The Times," right, the hometown paper of President Trump that he loves to hate, reporting that as part of a plan to help his parents, to help them duck taxes, Donald Trump got the equivalent of at least $413 million from his father.
So when Trump claimed that he started his business with a small million-dollar loan, is it that million-dollar loan, that small -- that he was only $412 million off. We've got more to come on that as well.
But did you see what President Trump said to reporters, asking him about the sexual assault allegations against Brett Kavanaugh? I really, really want to dig into that tonight because it says so much about why people are so fired up about the Kavanaugh nomination and the things the president is saying to defend him. So let's break it down.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I say that it's a very scary time for young men in America when you can be guilty of something that you may not be guilty of.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: OK. The whole guilty of something you may not be guilty of thing. That's just the way the president talks. But his meaning is clear.
He is saying young men in America should be scared of being falsely accused. Now, don't get me wrong. False accusations happen, and I think we can all agree they are terrible. But they're also pretty rare. Somewhere between 2 percent and 10 percent. That's according to the National Sexual Violence Resource Center. Here's more of what the president said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: You could be somebody that was perfect your entire life, and somebody could accuse you of something. It doesn't necessarily have to be a woman as everybody -- but somebody could accuse you of something, and you're automatically guilty.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: So obviously nobody is perfect, and nobody is automatically guilty just because of the accusation. And that's definitely not what's happening to Judge Kavanaugh's case -- in Judge Kavanaugh's case. That's not what's happening.
Christine Blasey Ford has told her story of what she says Kavanaugh did to her when they were teenagers. Brett Kavanaugh has told his. And now the FBI is in the middle of an investigation, interviewing multiple witnesses, including Kavanaugh's high school friend Mark Judge, though Professor Ford's attorneys say the FBI has not talked to her, at least not yet.
[22:10:06] But they have talked to a second accuser, Deborah Ramirez. And the investigation is expanding tonight. So why does the president seem to be assuming there's been a false accusation?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: In this realm, you are truly guilty until proven innocent. That's one of the very, very bad things that's taking place right now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Guilty until proven innocent. That's really interesting coming from Donald Trump because you might remember that he once spent $85,000 placing full-page ads in New York City newspapers, calling for the death penalty for the Central Park Five. They were black and Latino teenagers who were accused and eventually exonerated of raping a white jogger in Central Park. And Donald Trump never backed down.
So what's with all this talk about guilty until proven innocent and false accusations? President Trump himself told us just last week why he seems to assume the accusations against Brett Kavanaugh are false.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I view it differently than somebody sitting home watching television where they say, Judge Kavanaugh this or that. It's happened to me many times. I've had many false charges. When you say does it affect me in terms of my thinking with respect to Judge Kavanaugh, absolutely.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Well, I guess that explains why the president thinks this is a scary time for men. Maybe he means it's a scary time for men who say things like this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I'm going to use some Tic Tacs just in case I start kissing her. You know I'm automatically attracted to beautiful. I just start kissing them. It's like a magnet. I just kiss. I don't even wait. And when you're a star they let you do it. You can do anything.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Whatever you want.
TRUMP: Grab them by the pussy. You can do anything.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: David Enrich is one of the reporters who broke the story of Kavanaugh's letter for "The New York Times." He also is the author of the Spider Network. David, so good to have you on. Thank you so much. I appreciate it. DAVID ENRICH, FINANCIAL EDITOR, "THE NEW YORK TIMES:" My pleasure.
LEMON: So you got this Kavanaugh letter. It was written in 1983. Correct me if any of my facts are wrong. So without revealing your sources, tell us how you got it in general terms. What can you tell us?
ENRICH: Well, I can be pretty specific actually. We, you know, as part of our investigation into Judge Kavanaugh's high school years, we've been talking to quite a few of his former classmates, more than a dozen of them in fact.
And in talking to some of them, we heard that at a class reunion several years ago, in fact, I think a couple decades ago, this was handed out to a number of people there. And so we -- I guess that's part of the reason this was saved for decades, and someone was kind enough to share it with us.
LEMON: Interesting. So here's the post-script to the letter, OK. It says, "It would probably be a good idea on Saturday the 18th to warn the neighbors that we're loud, obnoxious drunks with prolific pukers among us."
Listen, David, that seems to really conflict with how Kavanaugh described his high school years.
ENRICH: Well, Kavanaugh described his high school years both in the Fox News interview and in the Senate testimony last week. He acknowledged that sometimes he drank too much. He went to a bunch of parties. He liked beer. He denied ever being blackout drunk.
So this letter doesn't directly contradict anything he said. But in watching his testimony and for some of his classmates watching his testimony, we got the impression that he was portraying himself basically as a choir boy.
He really downplayed the relevance that drinking had and the centrality of drinking in his high school life. And this letter makes clear that not only was it part of their life and a regular part of his life, but it was a core part of their life and something they did to excess, and they were proud of doing it to excess.
LEMON: Well, you said directly contradicted, and that wasn't really the question. So I take you -- I get what you're saying there. What I said, it seems to conflict with it because when they asked him about Ralphing (Ph) specifically, which really means vomiting or throwing up from too much alcohol, he said, I have a weak stomach for things like spaghetti and ketchup.
ENRICH: It's hard to square that statement with this letter.
LEMON: So there are two things about the signature that really stand out to me, and one is that he signed it fffff. It appears on Kavanaugh's yearbook page. This is how he explained it just to the Senate.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. SHELDON WHITEHOUSE (D), RHODE ISLAND: And there are like one, two, three, four, five, six, seven f's in front of the Fourth of July. What does that signify if anything?
BRETT KAVANAUGH, SUPREME COURT NOMINEE: One of our friends, Squee, when he said the f word, starting at a young age, had kind of a windup to the f word, kind of a fff, and then the word would come out.
[22:15:01] And when we were 15, we thought that was funny, and it became an inside joke for how he would say fff -- and I won't repeat it here for the f word.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Listen, I think maybe he is -- didn't count on the fact that there is Google now. There's the Internet, and you can search what that term means. Does that raise any further questions?
ENRICH: To be honest, it does not for me. I know it does for a lot of other people. But in his Senate testimony, there is some other references in his yearbook, things like devil's triangle and boofing--
LEMON: Right.
ENRICH: -- where his descriptions as explanations of those were, I believe, false based on our extensive interviews with his former classmates.
In this case with the ffff, our understanding from people who were his former classmates, including some who do not like him and who do not want his confirmed as a Supreme Court justice is that he that was actually, that was truthful. That really was Squee, Christopher Garrett was someone who developed a list for stutter when he was drunk.
And again, so I take him -- I believe that that is not the very obnoxious thing that some people think it is.
LEMON: Well, I was in high school around the same time as him, and it meant something different for us. So maybe it did mean not for him. But the general vernacular for that term was not what he said.
ENRICH: That's absolutely true.
LEMON: Yes. So let's talk about the Bart, all right? Because he signed it ffff, Bart. So we -- and Bart O'Kavanaugh, by the way, who his friend Mark Judge wrote about in his book about drinking in high school. And here's Kavanaugh. This is him being questioned about that nickname. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. PATRICK LEAHY (D), VERMONT: He references a Bart O'Kavanaugh vomiting in someone's car during beach week and then passing out. Is that you? KAVANAUGH: Mark Judge was a friend of ours in high school who
developed a very serious drinking problem. Now, as part of his therapy or part of his coming to grips with sobriety, he wrote a book that is a fictionalized book and an account. I think he picked out names of friends of ours to throw them in as kind of close to what -- for characters in the book. So we could sit here--
(CROSSTALK)
LEAHY: Are you Bart Kavanaugh that he's referring to? Yes or no?
KAVANAUGH: You'd have to ask him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: OK. So he didn't directly answer the question, but yet he literally is signing his own name the way that it was written in the book, Bart.
ENRICH: I would say for someone like Judge Kavanaugh who is as well organized, as fastidious, and as intelligent as he is, the odds that he does not remember that his nickname in high school was Bart are very low.
LEMON: David Enrich of "The New York Times," David, thank you. I appreciate your time.
ENRICH: My pleasure.
LEMON: Thank you.
President Trump's latest strategy to try to save the Kavanaugh nomination, mocking the victim. He went off on Christine Blasey Ford tonight. And Ana Navarro, Steve Cortes both here to get into it.
[22:20:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: So back now with our breaking news, that letter written by Brett Kavanaugh in 1983. "The New York Times" got it saying that he and his high school buddies were loud, obnoxious drunks and prolific pukers.
Ana Navarro and Steve Cortes are both here. Good evening. So, Ana, listen, a lot of us -- a lot of us drank a lot in college, right? We were -- I have some -- I have friends who were prolific pukers because they drank so much.
But you saw what Kavanaugh wrote in that letter to his friends, calling himself and his friends obnoxious drunks. Is this a big deal?
ANA NAVARRO, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: You know, it's like -- I feel like he's dying of some very deep wounds and then a thousand little cuts. This is one more of those thousand little cuts. You've got so many things going on when you put it in context.
It would not be a big deal, Don, if it was in a vacuum, if this was one letter. But it's one letter plus classmates, plus friends of classmates, plus Christine Blasey Ford's testimony. It is one -- you know, plus Mark Judge's book. It is one thing after the other after the other after the other that leads you, leads a reasonable person, I think, to conclude that the guy drank a lot, drank a hell of a lot in high school and college, and lied about it.
LEMON: Yes. The only reason--
(CROSSTALK)
STEVE CORTES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: OK. I think it's --
LEMON: Hold on, Steve. I'm going to let you. The only reason that it would matter is because of how he -- what he has said about himself and drinking and what he may have said under oath. But go on, Steve. Sorry.
CORTES: No. I was going to say, listen, it's very important to not conflate things that are frivolous with things that are potentially very serious. Drinking in high school and college and joking about it and puking is pretty frivolous as long as he's not doing it now, and there's no indication he is.
He said under oath that he drank too much beer. So that is established. That's not an issue. Now, if he was assaulting women, that's an entirely different matter. And if he's lying about it now, that's an absolutely disqualifying matter.
But let's not conflate. There's a continuum here where there is frivolous items like did he drink a lot as a teenager, and then there's incredibly serious items like is he an attempted rapist, and we shouldn't in any way muddle the two together.
LEMON: But I think you're on record. I think you said on this show that you had some concerns about his testimony. I don't want to put words in your mouth, or that some of the things he said were unfortunate or not believable. Am I wrong in saying that? Do you have a problem with anything that he said, that he testified to, especially about the yearbook and so on?
CORTES: No, I don't believe I said that.
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: That wasn't you -- that wasn't you? OK. Sorry. That's why I said I didn't want to put words in your mouth.
CORTES: OK. Sure.
LEMON: Because does it matter to you, well, let me ask you the question. What if he's not being completely honest about what he said under oath about these terms and so forth?
CORTES: Right.
LEMON: And by the way, let -- before you answer that, let's put up -- I want to just play again what he said about Bart, about being called Bart by his friend in the book. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WHITEHOUSE: And there are like one, two, three, four, five, six, seven f's in front of the Fourth of July. What does that signify if anything?
KAVANAUGH: One of our friends, Squee, when he said the f-word starting at a young age had kind of a windup to the f-word. Kind of a fff, and then the word would come out.
[22:24:57] And when we were 15, we thought that was funny, and it became an inside joke for how he would say fff -- and I won't repeat it here for the f-word.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: That wasn't the one I was referring to. And listen, according to his friends, if you heard the New York Times report, he said they actually believed that is possible.
What I was referring to, though, is him saying well, my friend now, Mr. Judge, he wrote a book. It was fictionalized and he didn't really answer about the character supposedly which was Bart when they asked him if it was him, he wouldn't really answer.
CORTES: Right.
LEMON: What do you think of that? Why pretend like that doesn't refer to him?
CORTES: You know, I'm not sure. Now he did not say it wasn't.
(CROSSTALK)
NAVARRO: Because it doesn't paint him in a good light.
CORTES: He said -- he said to ask the author of the book. But look, to answer your first point, which I think is the important point here.
LEMON: That's a good one. That's the author of the book, but the author of the book was not there to be questioned. But go on. Sorry.
CORTES: OK. But he is a sitting federal judge. If he lied under oath to the Congress, which essentially means lying to us, to the American people under oath, that's absolutely disqualifying in my mind.
Now, I don't believe he did. I have not seen evidence yet that he did. But if he did, to go down a hypothetical, even if it's about something frivolous, I believe that would be totally disqualifying.
LEMON: OK. Stick around, everyone. We're going to talk about that. We're also going to -- I want you guys to respond to what the president said about Christine Blasey Ford tonight. We'll do that after the break. Don't go anywhere.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: So the president taking aim at Christine Blasey Ford tonight at a rally.
Back with me, Ana Navarro and Steve Cortes. Also we're going to get to that "New York Times" report tonight about the alleged tax schemes from the Trumps.
[22:30:02] OK. So, listen, Steve, mocking Christine Blasey Ford at a rally, I mean, things have cooled off a little while the FBI does its work. Doesn't that just hurt Kavanaugh and the Republicans politically for him to do that?
CORTES: You know I think it does. I don't think it's helpful. I think that the momentum was going toward the nomination. And there's no reason to interrupt that positive momentum for the administration. And moreover and more importantly, I would say that, you know, look, I really prefer the President's first statement when he said that she was a compelling witness.
And I happen to agree that she was, I think, a compelling witness. I think Brett Kavanaugh was also an incredibly compelling witness. But I think it's important to not go on the attack against accusers even if you don't believe them. Instead, we should just focus on the facts of the case. And I think the reason that's important is we don't ever want to discourage women who are attacked from coming forward for fear that they might face ridicule.
LEMON: Thank you for your candor. And I have to say that some people will come on, and you don't do it all the time, and just reflexively defend the President even if it's indefensible. So I thank you for your candor with that, Steven. That's why we have you on so much. Ana, listen, the President talked more about the threat of men at his rally tonight. Listen to that, and we'll discuss.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PRES. DONALD TRUMP (R), UNITED STATES PRESIDENT: This is the time when your father, when your husband, when your brother, when your son could do great. Mom, I did great in school. I've worked so hard. Mom, I am so pleased to tell you I just got a fantastic job with IBM. I just got a fantastic job with General Motors. I just got -- I am so proud.
Mom, a terrible thing just happened. A person who I've never met said that I did things that were horrible, and they're firing me from my job, mom. I don't know what to do. Mom, what do I do?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: So I understand he's saying your life will be ruined with a false accusation. But then what is he saying -- I mean, come on, Ana, what is he saying about women, that they're gold diggers or their looking for revenge or they're maybe spurned women. I mean what's he saying there? NAVARRO: God knows. I've never quite understood what Donald Trump
says. He gets carried away and feeds off the crowd. And he's always talking to his base, particularly in these rallies. I think that when he made the first initial statements that he did about Doctor -- Professor Blasey Ford, he was scripted. It was strategic. He had been advised to do that.
And he was restrained for as long as he could possibly be restrained. This is him pandering to that base that, you know, thinks that now men are under the threat. You know the victims here are not the victims of sexual assault, but the victims are the men who are being accused of that. And look, Donald Trump is right. It is a scary time for men.
If you are a sexual assaulter, it is a hell of a scary time, whether you are a bishop or a priest or Harvey Weinstein or Bill Cosby. If you have done things that are illegal, if you have done things that are inappropriate, this is very different than it used to be when Donald Trump was growing up, when Donald Trump was an adult.
You will be held accountable. And I think a lot of people don't like that. But instead of painting it in a positive light and the positive light is I think this is a teaching moment for America, where mothers and fathers everywhere should be sitting down with their teenage sons and telling them, look, don't do this kind of stuff. Don't write this kind of stuff on social media because this will follow you and haunt you for the rest of your life.
But also, Don, a job at IBM, mom, I got this great job at IBM, is a world of difference between a lifetime appointment to the highest court in the land, where he's going to be making decisions on issues that include sexual assault and issues like the ones he is being accused of.
LEMON: I've got to go, Steve. Steve, I am sorry. I am out of time, if you can do it in...
(CROSSTALK)
CORTES: I was going to defend the President.
LEMON: Quickly.
CORTES: Look, I think he has a point that we're losing the presumption of innocence. I think that that is his point, and that's an important point whether you're a man or a woman, you deserve the presumption of innocence.
LEMON: He said that a lot, so did the supporters of Brett Kavanaugh. Thank you. I appreciate your time. Just remember there's a high standard, as Ana was saying, when you're trying to become a sitting Supreme Court Justice, the standards are really high.
NAVARRO: Yeah, we're not getting appointed anytime soon, Don.
LEMON: Your past matters. That's why I don't want to be a Supreme Court Justice nor a politician, because I don't want people delving into my past because it's none of your damn business. Thank you very much. A blockbuster report from the New York Times tonight, they say Donald Trump helped his parents duck taxes, and they used words like outright fraud and sham corporations. The President loved to hate the Times before. Imagine what he thinks now.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:35:00] LEMON: So the President has long claimed to be a self- made man, a billionaire who started from scratch. He said all he got was a small $1 million loan that turned into an empire. It was one of his favorite talking points in the campaign.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: It has not been easy for me. You know I started off in Brooklyn. My father gave me a small loan of $1 million. My father didn't have that kind of money where he could give that kind of money out. He was so proud of me. But I borrowed very little money from my father. I borrowed $1 million, and I built it into a company that's worth more than $10 billion.
My father never gave any money. When my father passed away, he gave some. But by the time he passed away, I had already built my business. My father gave me great knowledge, didn't give me a lot. I have all these people writing books about I got this, I got that. I got peanuts.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[22:39:57] LEMON: Hmm. Well, tonight, there is an extensive, an extensive "New York Times" report. It's putting that image to the test. In all, they report Donald Trump received $413 million in wealth from his father's real estate empire using a series of dubious schemes, some of which might be considered outright fraud. Again, that's according to the New York Times.
By age three, they say, Donald Trump was making $200,000 a year from his father's business. By age eight, he was a millionaire. So much for self-made, and not exactly the self-sufficient person that Donald Trump says he is. When he ran into financial trouble, he went to his father for a bailout. And when the Trump Castle Casino ran low on cash in 1990, Fred Trump sent over a bookkeeper, who bought more than $3 million in casino chips and left without placing a bet.
That cash infusion was found to be illegal by the state of New Jersey. But there are questions tonight about the other methods used to line Donald Trump's pockets. The White House is calling this, calling it all a misleading attack against the Trump family. So much to discuss now, so let's discuss it now with Dana Bash and Phil Mudd. Good evening to both of you.
Again, as I said, this report is extensive. Dana, I am going to start with you. The report says the President was a millionaire by the age of eight. I mean this -- it really takes down the idea that President Trump -- that Donald Trump built his empire from scratch. DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: It sure seems to, no question. Obviously, the money that the Trump children, Donald Trump of course included, that they were getting according to this New York Times report was a way for his father to, you know, kind of funnel money away from his fortune for tax purposes, maybe long-term for estate purposes.
And it certainly was the case as he got older. Yes, it could in theory completely poke holes in all of the arguments that you played coming into this segment, that the President has been saying that private citizen Donald Trump has been saying, that reality star Donald Trump has been saying, that made him the figure that was so appealing and is so appealing on the campaign trail and to his supporters now.
So that's one thing. I think the bigger issue is the allegations of fraud and what that could mean in, you know, in the court of law potentially, depending on a statute of limitations issue. And more importantly, in the House of Representatives come November, if the Democrats really do take over, they're going to have a whole bunch of subpoena power and investigating power. And you bet that will be one of the questions that they're going to want to look into.
LEMON: And the other thing too is that we should discuss is, is this really going to make a difference to the core Trump supporter. Because it just -- when I said earlier to Chris that I think Kavanaugh is going to be confirmed because it's really all about the Supreme Court. I mean, listen, he settled a fraud case from Trump University. There have been so many things.
This is -- I mean this is highly detailed and, you know, a sign that the law was broken. But is it going to make a difference because, listen, let's talk about some of this Phil. We're talking about a billion dollars transferred in wealth, hundreds of millions of dollars in taxes dodged. It's kind of a con that's too big to ignore, though.
PHILIP MUDD, CNN COUNTERTERRORISM ANALYST: No, it's not. I mean this is the President who built a myth. There are still people who believe that President Obama wasn't born in the United States. That was a fraud that was partly perpetrated by the President of the United States. That was a fraud that was partly perpetrated by the President of the United States.
There are still people who believe, I am sure, that there are a bunch of fraudulent, maybe three million fraudulent voters during the election. And Republican governors among others said we're not going to spend dollars to investigate this. To get more serious, Don, there are still people who believe that when Donald Trump got off the plane from meeting Kim Jong-Un from North Korea that America is safer.
The North Koreans have never given me an indication that they're going to destroy ballistic missiles and nuclear weapons. There's only one place I think this makes a difference. And that is you remember the FBI raided the offices of Michael Cohen, the personal lawyer for Donald Trump. If I were the Trump family, I would be worried that there are financial documents today that show that the Trump family was still doing the same kind of dance with real estate deals today that they were doing in those deals 30 years ago.
Otherwise, I don't think people are going to pay attention. They voted for him. They know he's a fraudster and they like the fact that a lot of Americans are working.
LEMON: Dana, the scale of this is -- I mean it's really staggering because the report says the Trump's could have paid up to $550 million, 55 percent in taxes. They paid $52.2 million. That's five percent. I mean is this the kind of story that resonates with voters? Do they care?
[22:44:55] BASH: It's so hard to answer that question, Don. We should also say, and I think you mentioned this, but it bears repeating that the President's lawyer says that this is just not true. The President's brother says that everything that they did was by the books and so on. So, you know, we should keep that in mind. Having said that, this is one of the most extensive pieces of journalism we've seen in a very long time.
LEMON: Yes.
BASH: "The New York Times" worked on this meticulously, clearly. And it says for over a year, got access to Fred Trump, his father's, you know -- a lot of his financial dealings and tax returns and things of that nature. So they know what they're talking about. You know the argument that the Trump family is now making, and of course, the White House itself is that, you know, a lot of those tax shelters were just that, were tax shelters and not actual fraud.
But we don't know the answer to that. I mean we know what was detailed and what was sort of concluded by "The New York Times" during that investigation, but it's hard to see this being over anytime soon.
LEMON: And it's going to be interesting to see when this is splashed across the front page of the New York Times tomorrow, how the President will react. Thank you both. I appreciate it. So we'll be right back. We're going to talk about the chaos surrounding the President's Supreme Court nominee. Will it help Democrats? Governor Jay Inslee, he is here.
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[22:50:00] LEMON: So just about a month to go until the midterms, OK, and every day, there is a new bombshell rocking the Trump White House. Now it's chaos around Brett Kavanaugh. What's next? And what do voters think of all of this? So let's dig into it now. Governor Jay Inslee is here. Governor Inslee of Washington by the way, the Head of the Democratic Governors Association, Governor, good evening, thank you so much for joining us here on CNN TONIGHT.
GOV. JAY INSLEE (D), WASHINGTON: You bet.
LEMON: Listen. I've got to get your reaction to the breaking story in "The New York Times" about Brett Kavanaugh referring to himself and his friends as loud, obnoxious drunks, prolific pukers in a letter, you know, about a beach vacation. Listen, a lot of people drank a lot and puked in college but they're not trying to be confirmed on the Supreme Court. Is it significant you think in his nomination?
INSLEE: It is very significant in his nomination, because we deserve and I think America of all parties ought to have some fundamental expectations that we're going to have Supreme Court nominee ho does not have a history of very compelling evidence of sexual assault, who will tell the truth in matters large and small, who has displayed some degree of judicial temperament, and has not demonstrated a partisanship from which he cannot escape.
And he has failed in all of those counts. So this has a profound decision, of course, with a lifetime appointment. And tonight, people understand that. That's why, you know, Republicans that -- my colleagues are running against are they had a Trump problem. They've got a real Kavanaugh problem now. And he should withdraw.
The President should step up to the plate instead of mocking Dr. Ford. He ought to show a little leadership and cancel this nomination. And he ought to start exercising a little more leadership of helping teach our young men to respect women rather than to feel somehow victimized when you respect a woman. That is simply unacceptable. We need a little moral leadership out of the White House, as well.
LEMON: There's so much to talk about. We could go on and on and talk about that. But I really want to get your thoughts on this other bombshell report in "The New York Times" today. A year and a half long investigation into where and how Donald Trump got all of his money. They report Trump got the equivalent of $413 million from his father, not the $1 million that he likes to say. What's your reaction to that?
INSLEE: Well, I am more interested in defrauding the American citizens, if in fact he didn't pay his taxes appropriately. I am less interested in the issue of whether it meets his reality TV show image. That's not something I think that at least I am interested in. But I am very interested in expectation I would have that any review of this man's business deals, I believe, would show massive repeated fraud, because his entire public life has shown massive repeated fraud, telling the American people distortions, deceits, and outright lies virtually every day of his presidency.
And you can be assured if you have a man who is willing to lie to the American people every day on television, on videotape, imagine what he was capable within the darkness of the years leading up to this hiding money on his taxes. So I don't think we should be surprised. I think we should be massively disappointed. And I am glad we've got some news outlets who will get to the truth.
Because remember, this was a President who refused to share his tax returns with us. We always believed there must have been a reason for that. It appears there was a big reason for that.
LEMON: So let's talk about the midterms, because we're five weeks out now, Governor. Is all this chaos surrounding this administration, do you think it's helping the Democrats?
INSLEE: Well, it's not the reason we should be concerned about these depredations by Donald Trump, but the fact is that we are experiencing a massive revulsion against the chaos coming out of the White House. And that's being reflected in people's voting. And people are speaking. People spoke at the elevator that got Senator Flake to change his mind. And it's a good thing that that happened.
People are speaking by voting in these primaries where Democrats in Florida got something like 40 or 50 percent more than they ever had before. Molly Kelly in New Hampshire had a turnout for Democrats, probably 30, 40, 50 percent higher than any record. In my state, 13 Republican seats are underwater compared to Democrats in the primary. And I think it's important to realize these are not abstract type of (Inaudible).
[22:55:08] These are Americans who have gone to vote and they have transferred their anger and their revulsion and their anxiety into action. And if Americans do that, we're going to retake our ability to restore some democracy here, and we're very bullish about that. We're competing in all kinds of places, Georgia, South Dakota, Kansas. We've got great candidates.
And our candidates are pushing their opponents on this Kavanaugh nomination. Candidates in Oregon, Kate Brown, Gretchen Whitmer in Michigan, they've pressed their candidates to stand up and say that they feel more important to protect women than to protect Donald Trump. And every single time the Republicans have said no, I would rather protect Donald Trump than the basic dignity of women, and this is causing great outrage. It's being translated into votes.
LEMON: I've got to jump in and ask you, because -- I am short on time here. I know you're always honest. So I understand that you're headed to Iowa later this month. That's going to be your second trip there this year. Do you care to make any announcements?
INSLEE: Yes. I am going to do everything I can to get Fred Hubble elected Governor of Iowa. He's a superb candidate. He understands the power of clean energy. He understands we've got to stand up for environmental quality. And I am doing the same thing around the state.
LEMON: No presidential aspirations for this.
INSLEE: Yes. I have a Presidential aspiration. We're going to have a great candidate, which will make Donald Trump just a blip in history. And I believe that's going to happen.
LEMON: Governor Inslee, I appreciate your time. Take care, Sir.
INSLEE: Thank you.
LEMON: We'll be right back.
