Return to Transcripts main page

Don Lemon Tonight

Justice Kavanaugh Sworn In as New SCOTUS Justice; Trump Apologized to Kavanaugh and His Family; Stormy Daniels Opens Her Life in a Book; Collusion with an Israeli Company During the 2016 Elections; Robert Mueller Investigation; Disappearance of Jamal Khashoggi. Aired 10-11p ET

Aired October 08, 2018 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[22:00:00] (JOINED IN PROGRESS)

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Don?

DON LEMON, CNN HOST: Anderson, thank you very much. This is CNN TONIGHT. I'm Don Lemon.

A bitterly divided America watching tonight as a new Supreme Court justice is sworn in, and the president, President Trump, threw gasoline on the fire.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I would like to begin tonight's proceeding differently than perhaps any other event of such magnitude.

On behalf of our nation, I want to apologize to Brett and the entire Kavanaugh family for the terrible pain and suffering you have been forced to endure. Those who step forward to serve our country deserve a fair and dignified evaluation, not a campaign of political and personal destruction based on lies and deception. And with that, I must state that you, sir, under historic scrutiny, were proven innocent.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Well, no matter what the president says, Brett Kavanaugh, now Justice Kavanaugh, was not proven innocent. Look, he may very well be innocent. Don't get me wrong. But we don't know, and we never will.

And that is partly why this has been such a divisive issue for this country. There was no trial. There was no official finding. The results of the FBI investigation remained secret, though we do know there were other potential witnesses the FBI never talked to.

So, no, Justice Kavanaugh was not proven innocent. This whole thing was political, and it was designed to get exactly the result we saw tonight. Another conservative justice on the Supreme Court.

Justice Kavanaugh's nomination was confirmed by one of the slimmest margins ever, 50 to 48. Almost entirely along party lines. And Americans were very much at odds about his nomination with protests all across the country.

So this is a time when you might expect a president -- a president -- to call for us to be put aside, to put aside our differences, to call for unity. You might expect any other president to do that, but not this one.

President Trump, his actions and his words tell you everything you need to know. The president is using division as a weapon, and he's proudly -- he is proud of every win he and his party get no matter how much it costs Americans. The proof? The president not only spiking the ball today by ramping up and claiming that the accusations against Kavanaugh were a hoax.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: A man that was caught up in a hoax that was set up by the Democrats, using the Democrats' lawyers, and now they want to impeach him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: The fact is Christine Blasey Ford contacted her Congresswoman, Anna Eshoo, when Kavanaugh's name appeared on the short list to replace Justice Anthony Kennedy, before President Trump nominated him.

And, remember, this is the president who, day after day, calling -- the day after that, calling Professor Ford credible, mocked her at length in front of a cheering crowd at a campaign rally.

Now, he would -- now he would have -- you believe her whole story, everything she said Brett Kavanaugh did to her, all those excruciating details. He would have you believe all that was a hoax cooked up by Democrats.

Looks like a hoax is the new witch hunt, right? So let's take a look at some of the things President Trump has claimed were hoaxes, things that -- no surprise -- all turned out to be true. Top of the list, the thing the president really loves to hate. The thing he has called both a witch hunt and a hoax, Russia's election interference.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Now, we're being hindered by the Russian hoax. It's a hoax, OK?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: And he tweeted about it too, calling Russia's interference a big hoax. A hoax, huh? I want you to listen to the president's own director of national intelligence. Here's Dan Coats.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAN COATS, UNITED STATES DIRECTOR OF NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE: We acknowledge the threat. It is real. It is continuing, and we're doing everything we can to have a legitimate election that the American people can have trust in.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Doesn't sound like a hoax to me. And it certainly doesn't sound like DNI Coats thinks it's a hoax. Another thing Donald Trump thinks is a hoax, global warming. He has been claiming that for years.

But just today experts at the U.N. warned of extreme drought, wildfires, and food shortages caused by global warming. And they say all of that could happen within our lifetimes.

So despite what the president claims, that's not a hoax either. It's not a hoax. The president also seems to think the death toll in Puerto Rico from hurricane Maria is a hoax as well, tweeting, quote, "3,000 people did not die in the two hurricanes that hit Puerto Rico."

[22:04:59] That, even though the governor announced now that the death toll was 2,975. The president would like you to believe this was a hoax too.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I got to use some Tic-tacs just in case I start kissing her. You know, I'm automatically attracted to beautiful. I just start kissing them. It's like a magnet. I just kiss. I don't even wait. And when you're a star, they let you do it. You can do anything.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Whatever you want.

TRUMP: Grab them by the pussy. You can do anything.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Well, despite what you heard Donald Trump say there, "The New York Times" reports he has repeatedly suggested the voice on that tape is not actually his even though he said this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I said it. I was wrong, and I apologize.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: And we all remember what President Trump said. This was back in April, when he was asked whether he knew about that $130,000 payment to silence Stormy Daniels, who I'm going to talk to in just a moment by the way. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. President, did you know about the $130,000 payment to Stormy Daniels?

(OFF-MIC)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Then why did Michael -- why did Michael Cohen throw and make this if there was no truth to her allegations?

TRUMP: You'd have to ask Michael. Michael is my attorney, and you'll have to ask Michael.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you know where he got the money to make that payment?

TRUMP: I don't know.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Well, we all know that's not true. The president's former fixer and keeper of secrets, Michael Cohen, told us that in his guilty plea in August, when he said, quote, "in coordination and at the direction of a candidate for federal office, he kept information that would have been harmful to the candidate from becoming public." And that candidate was Donald Trump.

So when the president tries to tell you that what you've seen with your own eyes and what you've heard with your own ears is a hoax, just remember all the other times he has cried hoax.

Remember all those things he claimed weren't true and turned out to be true? Remember his divisive language tonight at Justice Kavanaugh's swearing in? Proof that this president is our divider in chief.

Let's bring in now CNN White House Correspondent, Kaitlan Collins.

Kaitlan, good evening to you. Thank you for joining us here. You know, we heard what the president said about Kavanaugh. What did Kavanaugh said tonight?

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Well, Kavanaugh tried to strike a little bit of a different tone, a much different tone, Don, than what we saw when he testified, that aggressive tone where he was coming forward, saying it was all a conspiracy against him.

Tonight he went a much different direction. He tried to say, when I get on the court, this is how I'm going to act.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRETT KAVANAUGH, ASSOCIATE JUSTICE OF THE UNITED STATES SUPREME COURT: The Senate confirmation process was contentious and emotional. That process is over. My focus now is to be the best justice I can be.

I take this office with gratitude and no bitterness. On the Supreme Court, I will seek to be a force for stability and unity. My goal is to be a great justice for all Americans and for all of America.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: So you see there, Don, he's trying to tamp down that concern that he didn't have the right temperament to be a Supreme Court justice after that testimony. He also said he's going to be the first Supreme Court justice to have

all female clerks. He said that is something that's never happened before. Certainly trying to respond to those claims, to those women who were mad about the Me Too movement and the sexual assault claims against him, trying to say he understands that sex -- the workplace harassment for women is still a problem. He's going to have these female clerks.

And one more thing I do want to note, Don, from in the room. When President Trump was speaking after he said he wanted to apologize to Brett Kavanaugh and his family, he said that this shows that we're back to where you are innocent until you're proven guilty.

And when President Trump said that, one person clapping in the room was Clarence Thomas, who of course is the other justice who was accused of sexual harassment back during his confirmation hearing. It's pretty unusual for them to clap and applaud at such a moment like, that but he was one of those there clapping along with the president's words.

LEMON: Kaitlan Collins at the White House tonight. Thank you very much for that, Kaitlan.

Well, I told you I'd be talking to Stormy Daniels tonight, and here she comes. I want to know what she thinks about the president, President Trump, how he treated women making accusations against Justice Kavanaugh.

STORMY DANIELS, ADULT ENTERTAINER: Hi.

LEMON: See you after the break.

[22:10:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: A hoax. That is what President Trump is calling sexual assault allegations against new Supreme Court Justice Brett Kavanaugh.

Here with me is someone who knows what it's like to be accused by the president of pulling off a hoax, and that's Stormy Daniels. She has a new memoir out. It's titled "Full Disclosure." Thank you so much for joining -- it's a pleasure to finally meet you.

DANIELS: You too.

LEMON: We're from the same place, from Baton Rouge. You went to high school not far from where I grew up at Port Allen. But you went to Scotland, though.

DANIELS: I did, Scotland--

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: Years apart. I'm much older than you.

DANIELS: You don't look it. LEMON: But thank you, Stormy. Listen, the president calling Christine

Blasey Ford a liar, something that he called you and your attorney. You know that all too well.

DANIELS: Yes, I do, for sure. I know being in the adult business for as long as I have and being a dancer, like I've been called plenty of names.

LEMON: Yes.

DANIELS: But I think that when you know you're telling the truth, the worst thing you can be called is a liar.

LEMON: Yes.

DANIELS: And to have somebody so powerful say that, then of course all the followers jump on and accuse you as well.

LEMON: And saying it's a -- you know, that things are a hoax when they're actually real. I did that in the open of my show. The reason I ask you that is because you bravely -- you can talk about as much of this as you want to talk about. You don't have to talk about it at all because I understand how it is.

You bravely wrote about a sexual assault in your book. You say, "I was 9. I was a child, and then I wasn't." And you write that you told an adult, and the adult didn't believe you. You know what it's like when the president attacks -- someone like the president attacks victim.

DANIELS: Right. It sucks when, you know, anyone accuses you of not telling the truth or attacks you, but when someone like in a powerful position like in my book -- you know, it was a guidance counselor at the school that I went to. You just feel even worse.

Then you question yourself and, you know, you feel hopeless. Is anyone out there listening? Is there anything I can do? I guess I don't matter. You know, if nobody believes me, then, you know, it's -- you know, it definitely does something, I think, to your self-worth.

[22:15:00] LEMON: Yes. Do you think it's -- since you've told your story, has it been powerful? Has it been healing for other people?

DANIELS: It was crazy because when the book first came out and I started getting, you know, comments or this or that, then I realized, my gosh, like there are thousands of people right now reading, like, these most intimate things about myself. And it was like suddenly I totally regretted like putting all that stuff in.

And I went back and forth when I was writing the book. It wasn't in the first draft. And then I felt like, you know what, it's full disclosure. I have to put everything in. So I went back and added it and struggled with it and almost pulled it out of print a couple times.

You know, when the book, the day the book came out, I almost had a panic attack. Gosh, I wish I hadn't put that in there. I wish I hadn't put that in there because, you know, everyone is going to know everything and like nothing is private anymore. Especially that I was telling people that work with me, I work in the adult industry. So I'm already pretty exposed, so it was kind of like my only thing.

LEMON: Yes.

DANIELS: So I regretted it, and then I started getting these messages from people on, you know, Instagram messages, e-mail, texts, like they just started flooding in. In person at appearances. And some of them came from people that I've known my whole life, and I didn't even know that things had happened to them.

And a couple messaged me and shared their stories with me and said I was the only person that they had ever told. And it's a lot to deal with because I don't know how to help them except someone pointed out, you just--

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: You did.

DANIELS: -- did.

LEMON: Listen, I have a similar story to yours. Our stories are very similar. It was a neighbor and a friend, and just by telling your story, just by being open about it, I think that you -- I know that people tell me I've helped them, so I'm sure that you've helped people as well.

Thank you for talking about this because just because you write about it in the book doesn't mean you want to talk about it. So I asked you before, and I just want to make sure you're comfortable.

DANIELS: Yes.

LEMON: So thank you so much. I really appreciate that. You also write in your book that you were surprised when you were out with Michael Avenatti, your attorney, how many people want to talk to him or take pictures of him or even touch him. He has gone on since he represented you to represent Julie Swetnick. He's represented parents whose kids were separated at the border. Now he's possibly going to have a career in politics. What do you think of that?

DANIELS: About his career in politics?

LEMON: Yes.

DANIELS: I think that -- I think he's definitely cut out to be a politician. He's made a lot of difference in a lot of lives. I definitely think he's got the charisma and the smarts to do it. I'm not going to say if I'm going to endorse him or not because I want to know who the other candidates are. Besides, maybe I'll run against him.

LEMON: Is it ever distracting?

DANIELS: Somewhere, Michael Avenatti just fainted.

LEMON: Is it ever distracting? Do you ever feel like -- and what does it mean for your case? You think this affects your case?

DANIELS: No. You know what? That's one of the things that I read a lot, you know, people send me messages and they think that Michael has abandoned me or I'm not important to him anymore or this or that.

We are in contact every single day, almost, you know, three or four times a day sometimes, and I will message him about other things that are going on, other problems, this or that. This person did this or that, and he always puts me first.

LEMON: Yes. So you said that the nondisclosure agreement that you signed is null and void. Today Trump's attorneys filed paperwork agreeing with you.

You've already done several books now. I mean, have you ever considered just dropping the case now?

DANIELS: You know, a couple weeks ago when they offered to drop it and admit that they weren't going to sue me for the $20 million or whatever the crazy number was, there was this brief moment where I was super excited and I felt like I had won. But then I realized, no, that's just them chickening out. Like, I want them to admit that it was illegal and that I was bullied.

LEMON: Yes.

DANIELS: I feel like I can't really quit now.

LEMON: Yes.

DANIELS: And everybody forgets that you know, months ago in the beginning, I offered to return the money.

LEMON: And they said--

(CROSSTALK)

DANIELS: They weren't interested then.

LEMON: So why should you change course now?

DANIELS: Right.

LEMON: So you tweeted this yesterday. You said "Michael Cohen just said hi to me in the airport. I meant to take a flight to New York but think I just landed on Mars." So what happened?

DANIELS: We just passed each other in LaGuardia the other night, and I saw him, and I was like, my gosh, that's Michael Cohen. And he passed within like three feet of me. And you know, I was with, you know, my bodyguards and my tour manager and staffer. And he's like, hi. He turned and hey, guys, and spotted us. And it was very strange.

LEMON: Very strange. And that was it.

DANIELS: He looked happy and healthy, though.

LEMON: Yes.

DANIELS: He looked like he had a weight off his shoulders.

LEMON: Yes. So but do you harbor any ill feelings for him because it doesn't sound like it from--

(CROSSTALK)

DANIELS: I did for a long time. Like he was the one who, you know, brokered this ridiculous deal which isn't my issue because I wanted this. I didn't want this story to come out.

[22:20:05] LEMON: Yes.

DANIELS: My issue with him was he is the one that went on TV and promoted a book deal and this and that and started, you know, wanting more and more and more from me.

LEMON: Yes.

DANIELS: So I definitely think that I had a lot of ill will for him, towards him.

LEMON: Yes.

DANIELS: But in the end, you know what? He kind of did the right thing. He admitted that I wasn't lying and that Trump had ordered him to do this. So in a way, I guess I forgive him.

LEMON: Yes. So you write in your book, it's you know, and I mean this in the best possible way. I was surprised how much I liked the book because it's like a biography, right?

DANIELS: Right.

LEMON: People underestimate you a lot, and you always -- you take them by the element of surprise because you're actually a very smart woman, and you've done very well in the adult entertainment business as a director and as a producer. Why do you think people underestimate you so much?

DANIELS: First--

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: You said you shouldn't even be here, right? You should be in Louisiana with a bunch of kids and maybe living--

DANIELS: Right.

LEMON: I'll let people read the book. DANIELS: Right. I mean, I think people still have the misconception

that if you have blonde hair and big boobs, you must be a ditz. And a lot of people also think that because I work in adult entertainment and I'm a dancer, that I must not be smart enough to do anything else.

LEMON: Right.

DANIELS: You know, they think that, she's incapable of holding any other job. But they don't realize that, you know, I'm a producer, writer, director. I'm responsible for millions of dollars for the company's money every year.

LEMON: Yes. You said you don't have many regrets, but the one that you have recently is writing about the president's private parts. Why do you regret that?

DANIELS: I don't really regret it. I just have a couple moments where I'm like, that was kind of mean. But then I look back at all the horrible things he's said about other people and women and calling women pigs and attacking girls' weights and their looks. Then I don't feel so bad.

LEMON: Yes.

DANIELS: But I don't agree in general with like body shaming. But I was backed into a corner. I didn't really have a choice. I'm not a liar, and that's basically the only thing I could say to prove that I'm telling the truth.

LEMON: You dedicate this book to your daughter.

DANIELS: Yes.

LEMON: What do you want her and others to get from it?

DANIELS: Hopefully she doesn't read it for a few years. But I do hope that she reads it, and I hope that it inspires her to not only do what she thinks is right and stand up for herself, but to stay her path and follow her dreams.

LEMON: Yes. It's a real pleasure meeting you, and I'm enjoying the book. Thank you so much for--

(CROSSTALK)

DANIELS: Thank you.

LEMON: Thank you. Thank you.

The president tonight, saying that Brett Kavanaugh was proven innocent even though the FBI's report is still secret and multiple potential witnesses were never contacted. Is it all just an attempt to paper over a partisan political process? We'll talk about that.

[22:25:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK) LEMON: President Trump doing something pretty unprecedented tonight, apologizing to Brett Kavanaugh for the sexual misconduct allegations raised during his confirmation process and doing it right at the start of Kavanaugh's ceremonial swearing in. Is this just another you had to see it to believe it moment in the Trump presidency?

Here to discuss, Ana Navarro, Ryan Lizza and Susan Glasser.

Good evening to all of you. So good to have you on.

Ryan, I'm going to start with you. You know, everything moves at such warp speed right now. Have we forgotten that it was only August when the president's lawyer pled guilty to felony charges and implicated the president pertaining to the payoff of Stormy Daniels, who I just interviewed by the way?

RYAN LIZZA, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, yes. I mean the number of stories that have been lost because of the spotlight on the Kavanaugh hearings is quite a bit. I mean just look at the New York Times tax fraud investigation this week. So there's quite a bit.

But, look, the Russia investigation, it's sort of like a submarine operating underneath the surface, right? And, you know, every once in a while Mueller shoots off a torpedo. So that's not going away.

But I think you're right, Don. We're trying to cover a million stories at once, and this Kavanaugh story, for good reasons, overtook everything for a while there.

LEMON: Susan, so let's talk about the swearing in ceremony of Brett Kavanaugh if we can put it up. What did you think when the president said Kavanaugh was proven innocent because that's not what really happened.

SUSAN GLASSER, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: No, it's not what really happened, and it's striking that President Trump has chosen to frame this story in very different terms and much more political terms, much more partisan terms than he did initially when he wasn't quite so sure of the politics of it.

Remember, he initially said that he found the testimony of Dr. Christine Blasey Ford to be credible. And he's not saying that anymore at his rallies in recent days and at the swearing in ceremony. He's gone 180 degrees in a different direction of saying this was somehow likening it to a courtroom-like process in which Brett Kavanaugh has been found innocent.

I found it interesting that Kavanaugh himself send a -- tried to send a different message by saying he would be a justice for all Americans. You also had this powerful visual of all the other members of the Supreme Court, all the other justices including those appointed by Democrats, showing up for the ceremony as if to close ranks and to say, well, the president may be playing this in a very divisive and partisan fashion, but the institution itself is trying to recover some of its lost credibility. I fear, however, if you look at the Supreme Court's poll numbers,

they've just plummeted in terms of public trust in the institution, and that was even before this moment. So I worry about what the long- term implications for the court are on this.

LEMON: Ana, let's talk more about that. Because I wonder, you know, you saw the speeches tonight, the swearing in. I'm wondering if that did anything to heal the political divide and the pay we saw last week or this cloud, Susan said, that's hanging over the Supreme Court.

[22:30:08] ANA NAVARRO, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Look, I think it's too soon. I was just doing an event with Brooke Baldwin to celebrate her American women series, and it was with a group of women. And I can't tell you the amount of women that stood up and talked about feeling rejected, feeling sad, feeling depressed, how they couldn't move on Saturday. It's too soon to get over this.

This has been an emotional, destructive, divisive, ugly, ugly, ugly process. And I think it has gripped the nation. It has gripped, you know, the human spirit. So it's not going to go away with one speech. Brett Kavanaugh's probably going to be on that court for decades. And he's got -- you know, he's got a lot to prove.

And I think about what he prove, what he did prove with this speech is that he understands that. He realizes that he has got a cloud over his head. He realizes that a majority of American women believed Christine Blasey Ford. And most of us did not think she was confused about her accuser. I think it's -- you know, it's been a hard process.

I wish that Republicans would understand the gravity of the matter, and particularly Donald Trump and do less football spiking.

LEMON: Yeah.

NAVARRO: This is no moment to spike the football. This is no moment to tweet out a picture of a champagne glass. This is no moment to call people mobs.

LEMON: And toasting, yeah.

NAVARRO: We need to recognize the hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of victims that came out in the last three weeks to share their trauma and share their pain and open up their souls.

LEMON: Yeah. And I wonder, you know, as Ana put it, spiking the football. We've seen the tweets and whatever that Ana is referencing here. The President, Ryan, calling this a hoax by Democrats 29 days out from the midterms, he's ramping things up. And he knows it's political, and he knows he has to get some energy on the Republican side, because of the enthusiasm on the Democratic side that's been reported.

LIZZA: I mean I think that's one of the things that is so different about this -- you know, we've obviously -- we've been through a lot of partisan, ugly fights. This one stands out, certainly. But, you know, most often at the end of this kind of thing, even the most partisan people on either side do usually try and at least pay lip service to the idea that the country needs to come together and there needs to be unity.

And a lot of the leading Republicans seem to be driven more by the kind of, you know, media wing of the Republican Party. And, you know, Ana noted this tweet that got a lot of attention from Senator John Cornyn, where he, you know, was toasting champagne. And I noticed just an enormous amount of rubbing salts in the wounds of their opponents rather than trying to at least, you know, reach out to the other side.

Now, tonight at the White House, you know, there was a little bit of Trump rubbing salt in the wounds there, where Kavanaugh at least, you know, rhetorically was trying to move on from this. And I think that's a big change in our politics. It's just the contact warfare and, you know, as you said, the spiking of the football. And the sense where you don't try and...

(CROSSTALK)

NAVARRO: I know John Cornyn, and I -- you know, Lindsey Graham has been a friend for years and years and years. I am worried. And I know them to be better than this. I know them to be people who have some level of empathy for victims. And so I worry about what I see as the Trumpification of the Republican Party, even leaders who were not that before.

And I -- you know, I just think they've got to reflect on the message they are sending the millions of people who are hurt by this, who are shattered and crushed by this, whether they think it's fair or not, it is a reality.

LEMON: Yeah.

NAVARRO: A large percent of America is crushed.

LEMON: We're going to continue to talk, Ana and everyone, Ryan and Susan as well, so stick around. When we come back, we've got a new poll. It's out today that senators on both sides of the aisle should be worried about.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[22:35:00] LEMON: Evidence tonight that the Mueller investigation just keeps rolling along. A new report that the Trump campaign reached out to an Israeli company for assistance as it battled Republican primary opponents and Hillary Clinton. Back with me now, Ana Navarro, Ryan Lizza, and Susan Glasser, so Susan, "The New York Times" is reporting that former Trump campaign official Rick Gates sought online manipulation plans from an Israeli intel firm.

This was in 2016 to help defeat Hillary Clinton and Republican primary opponents. They report that there's no evidence that the Trump campaign acted on it, but how significant is this information in this report? GLASSER: Well, you know, Ryan compared the Mueller investigation to

that, you know, iceberg that keeps just floating on. You occasionally see evidence of it. This is a fascinating subplot in the Mueller investigation that suggests there's a whole story there that may emerge to be much more significant in terms of the connections between the Trump campaign and efforts to bring in people to manipulate the election.

That's fundamentally what this story is about. It's a really interesting, provocative report. By the way, it features Donald Trump Jr. in the story as also having had a meeting with a key person involved in this story. This is an Israeli firm that made a detailed pitch to the Trump campaign for basically how it would manipulate both the primary campaign.

They were still worried about Ted Cruz at the convention and also potentially the Hillary Clinton campaign by setting up fake identities on the Internet. There are references to unspecified non-public sources of information they might get on voters. It's a very interesting proposal. Now, there's no evidence as the Times reports that the Trump campaign acted upon this.

[22:40:17] Rick Gates, as you know, not only cooperated with the Mueller investigation, turned on his former boss and patron, Paul Manafort. You know, he, himself, has participated in a lot of illegal schemes. This suggests that there was a distinct lack of ethics or moral compass that either of them brought to bear in running the Trump campaign, whether or not this actually was put into motion or not, we don't know, though.

LEMON: Yeah. Ana, I mean we have been reporting on significant stories, the hurricane, Kavanaugh, and other big stories as well. But this is a reminder that this Mueller investigation keeps rolling on and that Manafort and Gates both have plea deals.

NAVARRO: Right. And it's -- you know, we all remember when there was this push, and there was this narrative that the Mueller investigation was going to get done before Labor Day, before September, that it couldn't get done after the elections, that it couldn't get done closer to the elections. It obviously is. It's obviously going on. Mueller doesn't care about, you know, fake...

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: Fake time lines or deadlines, yeah.

NAVARRO: He's going to finish this investigation. He's going to be thorough, and he's going to do it on his time. And I think there's going to be no rock that he's not going to, you know that he's going to leave unturned. God knows what he's finding under those rocks.

LEMON: Yeah. Kaitlan Collins is reporting tonight. I've got to ask you this, Ryan. That President Trump told allies in the last two weeks that while he hated this Kavanaugh drama, it had one perk. And the perk was getting Russia out of the press. What do you think of that given tonight's Times report? LIZZA: Well, I absolutely believe that, right? He hates the Russia

story more than anything else. And there's nothing he likes more than the kind of raw political fight like he had with Kavanaugh. I think the Times story, you know, we have to be clear. It's not really a Russia story, right? It has nothing to do with Russia or with the Russian campaign in 2016.

But the methods that this Israeli firm was pitching to the Trump campaign were similar to what the Russians used, right? It was about fake social media handles that would target -- at one point, the idea was to target delegates at the Republican convention who might have been wobbly on Trump, and then to do the same thing against Hillary.

So very much similar tactics that the intelligence community reported were used against Hillary Clinton in the general election, so at the very least, it suggests to me that just like with the Trump Tower meeting when they were open to receiving dirt from the Russians. They were open to at least talking about some campaign tactics that were over the line, at least traditionally.

Now, it did say in one of the presentations that they were not going to break any laws or regulations of the U.S. But on the other hand, the whole campaign was about creating manufactured avatars and doing a sort of -- as the company was called, sci-ops operation on the opponent. So I read the article as another example of the Trump campaign being open to using tactics that other campaigns wouldn't touch.

LEMON: Susan, I want to ask you about a new poll that's out tonight. And it's on Justice Kavanaugh. Majorities disapprove of each party's handling of the Kavanaugh hearings, 55 percent disapprove of the Senate GOP, 56 percent disapprove of the Senate Republicans, 55 percent disapprove of Senate GOP, 56 percent disapprove of Senate Democrats.

I mean that's a virtual dead heat, right? It's a tie. Did both sides come out of this wounded?

GLASSER: Yeah, absolutely. It's hard for me to imagine that anyone looks at the Senate Judiciary Committee or the leadership in either party as having conducted a Supreme Court nomination process that is something that the country can be proud of. Both sides will forever look back on this incident, this chapter in our political history with a great deal of skepticism and doubt because the process was so deeply flawed.

And it strikes me that, obviously, it's now being used for partisan political reasons because the election is so close. But putting that aside, Congress as an institution, it seems to me, just utterly failed. The idea that Republicans basically said, well, we have the votes, so we demand a vote instantly. They were only forced by a couple of their own members to have less than a week-long, very cursory investigation that, of course, could never fully put to rest the charges when you spend three business days on it and interview nine witnesses. [22:45:00] That does a disservice. It strikes me to Brett Kavanaugh

as much as to the women who came forward to publicly accuse him of sexual misconduct. So the process was a disgrace. And I also -- I want to point out. You mentioned earlier that the political argument that Trump and other Republicans are making now that this was a mob rule.

This was an example of these hoards of, you know, raging suburban women attacking senators. And that's going to be a political winning issue for them. You know, I am deeply skeptical of that. I think in general, I would hope that, you know, everybody's coverage of this would be much more skeptical. The idea that a line repeated by everyone, you know, over and over again, therefore becomes fact.

I think, you know, you're seeing how brilliant in a way Trump is at communicating. He's created this idea of a mob that somehow attacked Brett Kavanaugh. It's a fascinating argument to use. I am interested that it is rallying supporters in some very Republican states before the election. But I feel like we ought to be deeply skeptical.

The idea that, you know, hoards of like suburban middle-class women are now constituting a mob rule in America is a fascinating argument.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: I got to go, Ana, quickly.

NAVARRO: I was struck and saddened to remember that it was just a little bit over a month ago, that the country laid to rest John McCain. And we saw this display of partisanship, bipartisanship at his services. We saw Barack Obama. We saw George W. Bush. We saw a call for civility, a call for the integrity of the institution, a call for being statesman like as he was.

And here we were a few weeks later, in the worst political spectacle and display of partisanship. It laid bare the absolute grotesque dysfunction of the U.S. Senate, the U.S. Congress. I think every American should be mad as hell at what they saw.

LEMON: Thank you, everyone. I appreciate it.

LIZZA: Thanks, Don.

LEMON: We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[22:50:00] LEMON: After days of silence, President Trump finally weighing in on the disappearance of a "Washington Post" journalist who lives in the United States and is a prominent critic of the Saudi Royal Court. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PRES. DONALD TRUMP (R), UNITED STATES PRESIDENT: I am concerned about it. I don't like hearing about it. And hopefully, that will sort itself out. Right now, nobody knows anything about it. But there's some pretty bad stories going around. I do not like it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Well, Jamal Khashoggi is missing after going to the Saudi consulate in Istanbul to get documents for his upcoming marriage. This is the last known image of Khashoggi captured on CCTV as he stepped inside the consulate door, OK? The image obtained by the Washington Post. Saudi officials say he came in and left, dismissing reports of his killing as what they call baseless allegations.

But Turkish officials have told the Washington Post they believe Khashoggi was murdered at the consulate. And tonight, the President and the Secretary of State are speaking out. Secretary Pompeo saying he wants an investigation. So I want to bring in now a colleague Khashoggi's, and that's Jason Rezaian. Jason, good evening, thank you so much for coming on. Let's talk about this.

JASON REZAIAN, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Sure, Don.

LEMON: You and your colleagues have been closely monitoring every detail of this really awful story. What is the latest on what you all believe happened to Jamal Khashoggi?

REZAIAN: Well, unfortunately, Don, we don't know much more than those initial reports from several days ago. You know we're glad to see that the President and Secretary of State are weighing in and asking for an investigation. But it's really hard to believe or accept that these two governments, that the United States has very close security relationships with, Turkey, where the consulate was, and Saudi Arabia, whose consulate it was, don't have more information to share with us on this.

And, you know, I think -- our hope is that we will get some news that Jamal is still alive. But these initial reports from Turkish law enforcement that they believe that he was murdered inside the consulate are more than distressing. They're horrifying.

LEMON: Yeah.

REZAIAN: And you know it's hard for us to just sit here and accept that this is happening, and we won't accept it.

LEMON: Well, let's talk about this. You said horrifying because the Turkish President, Erdogan, says that he is taking a personal interest in this investigation, that he is looking into the arrival of 15 Saudi Arabian nationals in Istanbul at the same time as Khashoggi's disappearance. Do you believe they were sent there to murder him?

REZAIAN: Well, I don't know. And you know I am not there on the ground. I would hope that those reports turn out to be false. But we've heard about terrible behavior of Saudi Arabia within their own borders. But to pull something like that off in a diplomatic mission on foreign soil is unheard of, and shouldn't be taken lightly by anybody in the world.

LEMON: If I can follow up on something you said earlier, you said that you were happy that the President spoke about it, because he broke his silence on the disappearance, saying that he was concerned, that he doesn't like it. Should he be more forceful? What more can he do?

REZAIAN: Well, I think that, you know, the United States traditionally has been much more forceful about press freedom and protection of journalists around the world. Unfortunately, over the past year and a half during this administration, we've seen such a sharp uptick in attacks on journalists all over the world, including in, you know, longtime Democratic societies.

[22:55:01] And I think it's always been the place of the U.S. President to be sort of a moral authority on this particular issue. And unfortunately, that's been lacking so far.

LEMON: Yeah. All right, Jared Kushner and Crown Prince Mohammad Bin Salman have a close relationship. Trump himself even tweeted his support of the Crown Prince's crackdown on rival Saudi royalty. Is the Crown Prince emboldened to do whatever he wants because of those ties?

REZAIAN: Well, I don't know if he's emboldened because of those ties. You know they have a long and checkered history inside that country.

LEMON: They certainly don't hurt, though.

REZAIAN: Well, you know, and we've been led to believe that the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia is under this massive set of reform programs. But we don't see the results of that. And when Mohammad Bin Salman came to the United States several months ago earlier this year, you know, he was selling himself as this great liberalizer.

And I think that, you know, a lot of folks in the media kind of accepted that, and a lot of people in government wanted to believe that that was the case. But we have no indication that that's true at all.

LEMON: Jason Rezaian, thank you for coming on to talk about this story, and keep talking about it until we get some resolution. Thank you so much.

REZAIAN: Thanks.

LEMON: The President using Brett Kavanaugh's swearing in as just another opportunity to lash out at his political opponents. But couldn't he use the ceremony as a chance to unite rather than divide?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)