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Don Lemon Tonight
Kanye West Stole Trump's Moment; Trump Loves Who Loves Him; Kanye West Meeting with President Donald Trump; Murder of Jamal Khashoggi; Hurricane Michael's Catastrophic Damage. Aired 10-11p ET
Aired October 11, 2018 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[22:00:00] (JOINED IN PROGRESS)
DON LEMON, CNN HOST: But this president just doesn't get that. And listen, I'm not just slamming him, that is the truth. We've seen the same thing time and time and time again.
Why would you, I'm going to talk about this in a little bit, but you remember when Common visited the White House, Common, the most benign, one of the most benign rappers -- and I don't mean that in a negative way.
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST: Correct.
LEMON: He's not a gangster rapper.
CUOMO: Right.
LEMON: He's a spoken word, he's a poet.
CUOMO: Right.
LEMON: He visited the White House, did a great job, didn't disparage anybody. You know what they said? My gosh, I can't believe, this is not a great signal for our kids and you shouldn't be doing this. He never said "M.F." in the Oval Office.
Such hypocrisy. The same people who are holding him up as the beacon of hope for African-American votes were disparaging him when it came to, what he said about George W. Bush not caring about black people.
CUOMO: Right.
LEMON: And interrupting Taylor Swift getting her award saying I'm going to let you finish.
CUOMO: Right.
LEMON: But Beyonce had won the best videos of all time. They were calling him the n-word and saying, my gosh, Kanye West is crazy.
CUOMO: Yes. Look, I'll tell you, I was at the Apollo Theatre for the memorial for Phife Dawg from A Tribe Called Quest, may he rest in peace. Kanye jumps up on stage - he has no connection to the band - and he starts going on with some literally ramblings, OK? This is a man who is known for being well-educated, his intelligence
has prized over the years, his depth of knowledge. That's not on display. He's not at his best. I don't believe him to be healthy. And I don't have to speculate. He has said that.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: And he's given explanations for why he stopped taking his medication. Mental health is real.
LEMON: Right.
CUOMO: If you abuse it, you will be the way he is right now in these moments. So I'm not faulting him because I don't think he can be judged for not making sound judgments.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: But the president knows and those people around him who were supposedly so strong and tell him speaking truth to power they let him hold this today with this guy who is not at his best. And in this moment, when these people are still walking through the ruins of their lives in the south, that's when he does it, I don't get it.
LEMON: Listen, they're walking to the ruins of their lives and a lot of people who are walking through the ruins of the vestiges of Jim Crow and of slavery in this country are looking at Kanye West and saying, what is wrong with you?
Now listen, I actually -- I said today on your show I actually feel sorry for him, and I mean that, and I have no animosity for Kanye West. I just see someone who needs to get off the stage and away from the cameras and take care of themselves mentally and physically.
When you see someone, especially those around them, who you care about, and they're self-destructing in front of you, you need to have an intervention and take care of them. You need to have some serious talk with him.
CUOMO: You certainly need an intervention more than you need an invitation to the White House, unless that's why the president was inviting him there.
And just think about all the people across this country who are living the reality that Kanye was supposedly there to talk about today, not just in Chicago. You have underclass issue, socioeconomic issues all across the country that people are dealing with.
They watch this, do you really think they're going to come out and vote for Trump on the basis of this? They feel like their needs are being met, that they're being taken seriously that this is the opportunity he takes?
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: This is the hearing that he gives to the issues that supposedly represents their needs? Come on.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: I just don't get it.
LEMON: People are not stupid, let's put it that way.
CUOMO: And just in the spirit of goodwill, I'm sorry for the verbal beat down I gave you in the last segment. I shouldn't have done it.
LEMON: That's OK.
CUOMO: I should have practiced compassion. And I'm sorry.
LEMON: You care a lot more about the words that come out of your mouth than I do. Thanks, Chris.
CUOMO: Be well. I'll be watching.
LEMON: Absolutely.
This is CNN TONIGHT. I'm Don Lemon.
And as you heard we got to talk about Kanye tonight. We got to talk about something that I thought I'd never say. Kanye West in the Oval Office. I thought I'd never say that. We've got to talk about a scene that was just plain embarrassing.
But first I have to give you some perspective here. They say a picture is worth a thousand words. So here are some pictures that tell quite a story. While the president of the United States was meeting with Kanye this afternoon, cities were in ruin across the Florida Panhandle. Thousands of people lost their homes. At least six people died.
A million without power in the aftermath of hurricane Michael. The storm that is still bringing life-threatening flash floods across the southeast.
While the president met with Kanye, and the Dow was plummeting for a second straight day, slamming the 401k's of hard working people across this country and wiping out most of the good news from the year.
While the president met with Kanye, the disappearance of journalist Jamal Khashoggi, a resident of this country, remained officially unsolved. The U.S. official telling CNN the working assumption is that Khashoggi was murdered inside the Saudi consulate in Istanbul.
[22:05:03] And in a shocking development tonight, Turkey has told U.S. officials that it has audio and video recordings that prove a Saudi security team murdered Khashoggi, that is according to "The Washington Post."
Priorities, people. Priorities. With all of that going on, this president invited Kanye to the Oval Office, letting him carry on with an incomprehensible rant while the president sat there and listened. Letting it go on and on and on with the whole world watching. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KANYE WEST, RAPPER: This right here is the i-plane one, it's a high tech powered airplane and this is what the president should be flying. Look at this here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can we get rid of Air Force One?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, no.
WEST: Well, we're going to have Apple, an American company, work on this plane with. But you know what I don't like about -- it's not what I don't like. What I need Saturday Night Live to improve on and what I need the liberals to improve on, if he don't look good, we don't look good.
This is our president. He has to be the freshest, the flyest, the flyest planes, the best factories. And we have to make our core be in power. We have to bring jobs into America. Because our best export is entertainment ideas.
But when we make everything in China and not in America, then we're cheating on our country. And we're putting people in positions to have to do illegal things to end up in a cheapest factory ever, the prison system.
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I'll tell you what, that was pretty impressive.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: That was hard to watch. Come on. You know it was hard to watch. You know it was hard to watch. That laughter, this is not funny, they were laughing there. This was a man who needs help. He needs help. I've said it before.
President Trump is exploiting Kanye, using him to try to reach black voters. That's why this president loves to talk about everything he says he's done for the African-American community, why he loves to say black unemployment is at an all-time low. Completely ignoring the fact that the trend started under President Barack Obama. Donald Trump is delighted to have Kanye in the White House. Even when he says this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WEST: And he might not have expected to have a crazy (muted) like Kanye West run up and support. But best believe, we are going to make America great.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: The Oval Office. Yes, President Trump is absolutely fine with Kanye dropping an "f" bomb in the Oval Office and in front of cameras on television. As long as he's on the make America great train. But he wasn't always so open-minded. I want you to listen what he said, this is during the campaign, right, this about Jay-Z's appearance at a Hillary Clinton rally. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: The only way she filled up the arena was to get Jay-Z.
(CROWD BOOING)
TRUMP: And his language was so filthy that it made me like the most clean cut human being on earth.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: I wonder what he thought when he said MF in the Oval Office. Then there's this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: He used every word in the book last night. He used language last night that was so bad, and then Hillary said, I did not like Donald Trump's lewd language. My lewd language. I'll tell you what. I've never said what he said in my life.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: MF is not lewd, huh? And yes, how about this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Wouldn't you love to see one of these NFL owners when somebody disrespects our flag, to say get that son of a (muted) off the field right now, out, he's fired, he's fired!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: I would never use language like that. Not to mention this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I better use some Tic Tacs just in case I start kissing her. You know, I'm automatically attracted to beautiful. I just start kissing then. It's like a magnet. I just kiss. I don't even wait. And when you're a star, they let you do it. You can do anything.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Whatever you want.
TRUMP: Grab them by the pussy. You can do anything.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Well, I guess the president things that language is OK. But a rapper, my gosh. That depends on who he or she supports. So let's take a trip down memory line. Remember Common? Common, the rapper Common when he performed at the White House when President Obama was president? Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) [22:10:03] COMMON, RAPPER: Even through the unseen, I know that God
watches from one king's dream he was able to Barack us, one king's dream, he was able to Barack us, one king's dream, he was able to Barack us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: I'm so offended by that. That's so offensive. That was sarcasm, by the way, in case you didn't get it. So here is what the president's good friend, his good buddy Sean Hannity had to say about that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEAN HANNITY, FOX NEWS HOST: He used the "n" word, he talks about cops. Hang on a second. This is the president of the United States of America. You know what? This is not a good message for our kids.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Kanye never uses the "n" word. Go listen to some of his music. And this is what Sean Hannity now has to say about Kanye.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HANNITY: The president is getting some very public enthusiastic praise from one of America's most iconic rappers. Kanye West takes a stand for freedom of thought and freedom of expression. We should all support this.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: You cannot make this up. You cannot make -- I mean, really? I wish we could play that all over again. But anyway, I have a lot of show to get to. So it's not a good message for our kids, as he says, when a rapper who has used the "n" word in the past, performs at the White House, but it's fine when a rapper who actually uses the "f" word in the Oval Office?
And there's more. The GOP taking a page out of the Trump playbook, with an ad attacking a Democrat running for Congress in New York, a Rhodes scholar, Antonio Delgado, labeling him a big city rapper.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANTONIO DELGADO, CONGRESSIONAL CANDIDATE (D), NEW YORK: Who am I? I'm Antonio Delgado. I was raised to believe you're supposed to love your neighbor.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: But President Trump hasn't always been such a big fan of Kanye. Remember this?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WEST: Yo, Taylor. I'm really happy for you. I'm going to let you finish. But Beyonce have one of the best videos of all time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Well, Donald Trump told TMZ that Kanye's behavior was disgusting, man, that's what he said. Adding, quote, "he couldn't care less about Beyonce, it was grandstanding to get attention."
And you remember President Barack Obama's reaction to Kanye?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why would he do that?
BARACK OBAMA, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: He's a jackass.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Well, interesting. There is something that Trump and Kanye have in common. They've both been criticized by Barack Obama. OK. So the truth here is pretty simple. This is about more than just rap. It's about race.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: When Kanye came out very strongly a number of months ago, something happened. My polls went up like 25 percent. Nobody's ever seen it like -- he's got a big following in the African-American community.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: So when the president parades Kanye in front of the cameras, that is just a cynical attempt to manipulate black voters with less than a month to go until the midterms. Don't fall for the Oki-dokie.
There's a lot to talk about tonight with Frank Bruni, Chris Cillizza, and April Ryan. We'll get to it, next.
[22:15:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: So with everything going on, especially the catastrophe in the Florida Panhandle, you think that this president would be huddling in meetings with top aides, and making sure to get the message out. But he managed to make time, lots of time today for Kanye West who went off on a 10-minute rant live on national television, even dropping the f-bomb in the Oval Office.
So let's discuss now with Frank Bruni, Chris Cillizza, and April Ryan, the author of "Under Fire: Reporting from the Front Lines of the Trump White House."
Good evening. Frank, I can't even get my workout on today, right, but during that time, Kanye was on my Apple watch, it was like a shock, like a cattle prod. I'm like, my gosh, what is going on? Kanye was o television and then I got home. My mom said, you have to watch this. I said, I can't watch it, I have to turn it off. But think about this. All these communities now that are being
decimated from hurricane Michael, the Dow lost over 1,300 points today, we got the Jamal Khashoggi case now.
FRANK BRUNI, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Yes.
LEMON: Is it the president prioritizing Kanye over all of that?
BRUNI: I think the president is prioritizing himself. I mean, I watch a day like today and I think what I've thought many times before, which is he does what suits his fancy at any given moment. He does what is in the mood for him.
It doesn't matter necessarily what's going on in the nation, it doesn't matter what, you know, those of us Americans need or want to see from him. It's sort of about his own pleasure. And I think from the beginning he has used the Oval Office, the White House, and the presidency as an environment in which to marinate in his own celebrity and have celebrities come to him. Because I think that's the thing he works off above all else.
LEMON: But then, look at this. I just want to put this up. Look at the -- this is the disastrous images coming from the Panhandle. And then you have this disastrous photo op at the Oval Office.
April, you know how much criticism the former president got during Sandy, a week or two after Sandy. And he went on for a campaign event, not on the day that it hit, but later.
APRIL RYAN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes. You know, when you're presidential, and there is a disaster, when a community, an American community is decimated, you're there, you speak, you go there, you send aid, you talk about FEMA, you talk about the Red Cross.
This is an administration that looks to states' right, the state is first, and then when they call, that's when we come, we're the backup. But American people, people who voted for you, you know, we see presidents stand in that light. Normally. This is different.
[22:20:00] And it wasn't -- and I want to correct something. It wasn't just about Kanye today. Before Kanye and Jim Brown met with the president, there was the Music Modernization Act.
We had the Beach -- a member of the Beach Boys, you had someone from Sam and Dave, you even a member of the Dobre Brothers there and some country singers, talking about how the president is doing the great thing about making sure that the copyrights allow for royalties now for those musicians before 1972.
So today was a big celebrity day at the White House. And Kanye just topped it off.
LEMON: Let me ask you real quick -- hang on, hang on, hang on, Chris.
CHRIS CILLIZZA, CNN POLITICS REPORTER AND EDITOR-AT-LARGE: Sure.
LEMON: April, you've been there for 21 years, right?
RYAN: Yes.
LEMON: Have you ever seen anything like this happen in the Oval Office?
RYAN: No, never, ever, never.
LEMON: Yes. So, Chris.
RYAN: I mean, I've seen some things -- yes.
LEMON: Yes. OK. So Chris, your latest piece out for CNN.com, you write about what Kanye teaches us about President Trump. First on the list, Trump loves the people who love him. What else?
CILLIZZA: Yes. Well, a lot of it touches on what Frank was just talking about, which is he loves people who say nice things about him. Look, whether it's Vladimir Putin or Kanye West, that Donald Trump is willing to give you a second, third, fourth, fifth, chance if you are nice to him.
The other thing and Frank touch on this, is he loves celebrity. He is someone who came of age and has been a part of that New York City tabloid culture. This is a man I always remind people, he created a fake person named John Barron. That was him. That called the gossip tabloid page six sorts of establishments and talked about how virile, how appealing who Donald rump was dating, what women wanted to date Donald Trump.
This is the world in which he's always lived. I think too, if you want to think of Donald Trump, a wise person recently told me this, he's producing a daily reality TV show. And he is going with him always as the star. That's the only through line.
So as Frank noted, today, and April talked about this too, today was Kid Rock, Kanye West, Jim Brown. Forty -- we didn't even mention this, Don, 46-minute phone interview with Fox & Friends because that's what the star and producer of the reality show wanted today. Tomorrow he may want something totally different. But that's how you need to understand who this guy is and what he does on a daily basis.
LEMON: So Frank--
(CROSSTALK)
RYAN: At the taxpayer's expense.
LEMON: Yes.
CILLIZZA: Yes.
LEMON: I'm wondering Frank what you think of the point that Kanye made about wearing the Superman cape and feeling like a Superman, I should say, when he puts on his MAGA hat and he couldn't support the "I'm with her" slogan. BRUNI: To make sense of anything Kanye said is rather difficult,
which is one of the reasons why it's such a travesty to see him to be there. As you said, he's being exploited and he's not, in many ways, a well man.
I mean, I think he's just participating in the myth making of Donald Trump. I think Chris has it exactly right, Donald Trump welcomes people, he judges people by how much they love and profess love for him.
LEMON: Yes.
BRUNI: And it was really interesting to take that trip down memory lane with Chris because you realize, listening to it, he now has Air Force One. He now has the resolute desk. You know, he now has veto power. He's the same man today whom he was 20 years ago or 30 years ago. There's nothing different except the trappings on the regalia.
LEMON: Well, I just have to ask because he says that as a guy he couldn't support the "I'm with her" slogan. I don't mean that he had to support Hillary Clinton, but what is that? Is that misogyny, what is that?
BRUNI: It sounds like--
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: I need to feel like a man and I can't.
BRUNI: It sounds like rank sexism. But once again, I don't think, we're not hearing reasoned observations from Kanye West. We're hearing expectorations. And that's why he shouldn't have been in the Oval Office, that's why he ended up dropping the f-bomb and that's why we're all sitting here and we should no longer be able to be stunned by the debasement of the presidency that is happening under Donald Trump.
And yet, you came to a day like today and you realize that as thick as your skin is and as numb as you think you've gotten, you haven't gotten -- you haven't gotten that numb.
LEMON: Yes. OK. April, I know you want to get in.
RYAN: Don?
LEMON: We're going to get you on the other side, I promise.
RYAN: Yes, yes.
LEMON: OK, I've got to take a break. We'll be right back.
RYAN: OK, Don.
LEMON: All right.
[22:25:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK) LEMON: At his rallies this week, President Trump has been praising Kanye West as someone who gets it when it comes to issues affecting African-Americans.
So back with me now, Frank, Chris, and April. And April, you wanted to get in about him saying when he done this MAGA hat he felt like Superman and as a guy, he couldn't get behind the "I'm with her" slogan.
RYAN: Yes. Kind of going back of what Frank said. You know, and I think this is why people are having, beginning to have a problem with the shock and awe moment of Kanye. He basically talked about trying to work out his father and son issues because his father wasn't there.
And Donald Trump pretty much was like a r figure, he was basically saying that and he looked at him as someone who would play ball with him. And I'm saying to myself, we have not seen him play ball with Barron as of yet, so I'm like trying to figure this out.
But it was -- it was indeed a moment. I mean, it was personal, it was business. It was all over the place. It makes you wonder where Kanye West really is with his emotional and mental state right now.
LEMON: I think he needs a father figure, he was basically saying that today. He basically said that he was like a father, he needs a father figure. And you know, since his mom died and that's when, I don't know, if something happened to my mom, God forbid, I don't know how I would react or you know, if I could even get over it in 10 years. It's been a while but I would hope that I would have--
(CROSSTALK)
RYAN: But Kanye acknowledged his mental illness as well.
LEMON: He does.
RYAN: But Kanye acknowledge--
LEMON: Well, that's, you know, that's a good point.
RYAN: And he acknowledged his mental illness issues as well.
LEMON: Can we talk about that? Because people -- well, if you mention that, they will criticize you. But Kanye brought it up today. He brings it up in every interview.
RYAN: He did.
[22:30:03] LEMON: And if you want to take the stigma off of mental illness, when people discuss it--
(CROSSTALK)
RYAN: Embrace it.
LEMON: The truth, the reality of it, then you need to embrace it, and say, oh, how dare they bring up his mental health. He's the one who is talking about it. Chris, am I wrong?
(CROSSTALK)
CILLIZZA: No. He did -- he -- what's fascinating is he did in an interview in People Magazine in August, in which he called it (Inaudible) the language parallels are really interesting. He called being bipolar, which he is been diagnosed as, his superpower, that it's something he obviously has struggled with, but it gave him powers that other people didn't have.
What's fascinating about what he said about mental illness in a conversation with Trump is he essentially says, I read it a bunch of times and I watched it, that he was misdiagnosed as bipolar and really he was really just suffering from sleep deprivation. And that's why he couldn't remember things. I mean again, I do -- I kind of return to Frank's initial point here as it relates to what Kanye said.
I am hesitant to analyze too deeply because it really did feel like someone who is just, I guess riffing would be the nice way to put it, but just kind of saying things.
LEMON: Stream of consciousness.
CILLIZZA: And at the end, he says, you know, Trump says, thanks. That was amazing. And Kanye says I -- it just came from my soul. I just said it. It sort of sounded like that. So I am always hesitant, given what we know about what Kanye West has talked with his own (Inaudible) mental illness, excuse me, to say well, when he used this set of words, he mean this or he's been diagnosed differently.
I don't know. Maybe those things are true. But the whole of that soliloquy he gave doesn't give you a lot of confidence that you should take all his words to the bank.
RYAN: Well, Chris, he did say, he talked about the mind trauma, the brain trauma. He equated it to that of football players. And if you remember, many, many, many, many years ago, Kanye West was in a terrible accident, where he could have lost his life. So I mean -- and that may have been some of the head trauma that he may have been referencing.
But Kanye West actually went out and said that he has some issues. And listening to that monologue today, and at points it was incoherent, and at other times you felt sorry for him because he was missing his dad and his mom. And other times, you were wondering if there needs to be help. There is something there. What, we don't know. But he acknowledged it.
LEMON: Yeah.
RYAN: And the bigger piece is, is in the acknowledgment, this is the person that the President wants to advise him on very serious issues that affect millions of Americans.
LEMON: He doesn't want him to advise him, April. He doesn't want that. RYAN: Unemployment.
LEMON: He does not. He does not. He wants a photo op.
RYAN: I hear you, Don.
LEMON: He wants to say here's a rapper, and he wants us talking about it, so the echo chamber can say how dare they talk about it.
RYAN: They are working on the issue of prison reform.
LEMON: He's not doing that.
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: I am going to give you Van Jones' phone number after this. That is not why...
(CROSSTALK)
RYAN: I know. I have Van Jones' phone number.
LEMON: Donald Trump wants him there...
(CROSSTALK)
RYAN: You're getting Van in trouble right now.
LEMON: Van told us on the air that he was working with him, that people were working with him to get on message.
RYAN: I know.
LEMON: That didn't happen. But all I am saying is...
RYAN: Members of the Congressional Black Caucus are working with him as well.
LEMON: OK.
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: OK. I've got to go, April. I got to go. I got to go. I got to go. I got to go. I got to go. I mean I got to get Frank in here. So Frank, you know, as I was saying, this isn't about criminal justice reform for this President. This isn't about someone who really has issues. And as I said, I feel sorry for him. And everyone who had a connection to him through his music, who I knew today, said this is no longer funny.
This is not funny. This is sad. And he needs help. And he needs to stop letting this administration exploit him.
BRUNI: Right.
(CROSSTALK) BRUNI: And exploit is the right word. This was not about anything serious. This was about a piece of theater that Donald Trump was enjoying initially. I don't think he was at the end. And it was about yet more affirmations for Donald Trump from a segment of the population in his mind that people don't give him credit for connecting with. That's what this was about, which means it was about nothing at all.
LEMON: Yep. Thank you. OK, as we said, there are very serious issues the President could have been focusing on today. "The Washington Post" has breaking news on one of those stories. And we're talking about missing journalist, Jamal Khashoggi. The Turkish government says they have recordings proving he was killed inside the Saudi consulate. And we're going to discuss that with James Clapper, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:35:00] LEMON: This is our breaking news tonight. "The Washington Post" is reporting that the Turkish government says it has video and audio proof that dissident Saudi journalist, Jamal Khashoggi, was murdered inside the Saudi consulate in Istanbul. One Turkish official saying the voice recording from inside the embassy lays out what happened to Jamal after he entered.
You can hear his voice and voices of men speaking in Arabic, and you can hear how he was interrogated, tortured, and then murdered. It's a truly shocking development. James Clapper is here to discuss. Thank you for joining us, Mr. Clapper.
JAMES CLAPPER, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Thanks, Don.
LEMON: Director, do you believe the Turks have recordings of this murder, if it is in fact a murder?
CLAPPER: Well, I think it's quite possible that just as a function of Turkish government counterintelligence surveillance, that they could well have inserted listening devices or surveillance devices inside the consulate. So I don't know for sure. But it's certainly within the realm of possibility.
[22:40:08] LEMON: Do you expect U.S. officials will ask the Turks to share these recordings? Is there something we want to analyze ourselves?
CLAPPER: Well, yes, absolutely. We want to verify, validate whether the -- such recordings, if that's what they have, are authentic. And, you know, the President has said he is awaiting more definitive information. Well, that -- if we were given access to such surveillance data and could validate it, that would certainly go a long way towards, I guess, satisfying the -- in this case, President's high evidentiary bar.
LEMON: So Director, Saudi Arabia is one of America's closest allies in the Middle East. What is the fallout if this is proven to be a murder? CLAPPER: Well, that to me is a key question here. Because I think so
far, this development and what appears to have happened, I think puts the President in a tough place. And he's already -- I think reflected some ambivalence about this. And I think the issue is do we stand up for traditional American value and take a strong exception to such an action if it did in fact occur, and accordingly punish Saudi Arabia, as opposed to jeopardizing a $110 billion arms sale.
And the President's, you know, proclivity thus far seems to be leaning towards preserving a big arms deal because of, you know, impact on potential employment in the United States.
LEMON: I just want to -- let me play this, because...
(CROSSTALK)
CLAPPER: I note there is pressure from both sides of the aisle in the Congress to do otherwise.
LEMON: Yes. Sorry about the delay. But I just want to -- I want to play what you're talking about. The President said -- what he said when he was asked if he would take an arms deal with the Saudis off the table as punishment. Watch this, and then we'll discuss.
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DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We have to see what happens. A lot of work is being done on that. And we're going to have to see what happens. I don't like stopping massive amounts of money that's being poured into our country. I know they're talking about different kinds of sanctions. But they're spending $110 billion on military equipment and on things that create jobs, like jobs, and others for this country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: So Director, what does that say about the President's values and how he views the world? What do you make of those remarks?
CLAPPER: Well, that's precisely the point. It's always all about the money. And I mean this is I think a classic illustration of failure to uphold American values and standards of behavior in the face of, you know, threatening a big arms deal, which of course, you know, he took victory laps about when he got it, when he visited Saudi.
So to me, it's disturbing. And I -- it certainly doesn't -- sitting where I am in Australia, it does not bode well for the U.S. image overseas.
LEMON: Yeah. Robert Kagan is a Senior Fellow at Brookings wrote in an opinion piece, saying that the murder of Khashoggi could be an event that symbolizes something much bigger in this case, that withdrawal of American leadership in the world is giving cover for the worst, most dangerous people to emerge. What are your thoughts on that? CLAPPER: I think there's something to it, Don. And I think the --
our current proclivity for embracing autocrats, you know, Kim Jong-un, and our love affair with him, or Duterte in the Philippines, just to name a couple to examples, or of course, Vladimir Putin. And this would just be one more sort of reinforcement of this tendency to be supportive of -- and or not critical of autocrats.
And that's, you know, what we have in Saudi. And Mohammed Bin Salman, who, you know, his objective to reform, which is good, but he is an autocrat.
LEMON: Let's talk about this administration and their relationship with the Saudi Crown Prince, because if it turns out the Saudis are responsible for Khashoggi's disappearance, do you think that this administration's closeness to the Crown Prince made the Saudis think that they could get away with this, possibly?
[22:45:00] CLAPPER: Well, I think that would be the first instinct, probably. I mean apparently, there's been a developing close relationship between Jared Kushner and MBS, as well as the President's own affinity for Saudi. And that appears to be kind of the centerpiece of mid-east policy, particularly in relation to Iran, looking to Saudi to be the bulwark there.
LEMON: Yeah.
CLAPPER: But again, what are we going to stand for here? You know making money or our traditional values? And I think that's the dilemma, which I hope the White House, the President, is thinking about.
LEMON: What do you think our allies are saying?
CLAPPER: I am sorry, Don. I didn't hear you.
LEMON: What do you think our allies are saying?
CLAPPER: Well, this is being followed here in Australia. That's just one ally with great interest. And I think people here are going to watch to see how this unfolds. You know, is there convincing evidence. And increasingly, it appears there is. And I think people in Europe are going to be watching this very, very carefully. And again, given the proclivity for favoritism with autocrats, you know, I am not too optimistic about how it's going to turn out.
The other thing I thought incredible about this is that the Saudis, whatever they were trying to do, thought they could do this without it being detected or being observed. And maybe they didn't care. I don't know, but it's pretty amazing trade craft to me.
LEMON: Director Clapper, thank you. I appreciate your time.
CLAPPER: Thanks, Don. Thanks for having me.
LEMON: Thank you. Entire communities in Florida completely decimated by Hurricane Michael, I'm going to speak with the Tallahassee Mayor and nominee for Florida Governor, Andrew Gillum, about the damage and the recovery efforts.
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[22:50:00] LEMON: Tonight, cities across the Florida panhandle in ruins. Hurricane Michael causing catastrophic damage, one of the hardest hit towns is Mexico Beach, Florida, now being described as ground zero of the devastation. So much of Mexico Beach is gone, the monster hurricane's powerful winds obliterating most of the homes. Mexico Beach is virtually cut off from the rest of the state, roads blocked by debris.
Power is out, cell phone service nonexistent. Well, the catastrophe stretch across the panhandle, homes, shopping centers, schools, you name it, flattened and destroyed, so joining me by phone Tallahassee Mayor Andrew Gillum. Mayor, thank you, awful, just awful.
ANDREW GILLUM, MAYOR, TALLAHASSEE: No. I couldn't agree with you more, Don. And thank you again for keeping the spotlight where it belongs, which is on so many of these communities that have really been you know, changed, reshaped forever as a consequence of this storm and the aftermath in its wake. Well, honestly, I've -- I feel embarrassed in some ways speaking about, you know, some of what our impact has been because we're dealing with, you know, yes, some tree through homes and through property.
But in my county, we don't have any storm-related deaths so far as we've been able to assess. Our neighboring county has four reported deaths, and I believe there's been six total reported that are storm- related.
LEMON: There are four in Florida, one in Georgia, one in North Carolina. That's the number that we have so far. Can I ask -- you know our thoughts are with you. Have you been hearing from -- we've been hearing from some people here. You know we see on television, but have you been hearing from folks and how extensive is the damage?
GILLUM: Oh, yeah. I mean first of all, on the coast, you know, we've got local government officials that communicate with each other and offer support. But they're not even at the stage really of, you know, power restoration at large because this is rescue, you know, and recovery of life. And my community, we are already moving onto the stages of what does it mean to, you know, sort of clear roads and debris and get power restored.
And although our system was impacted as significantly as we've ever seen, 90 percent of it impacted, you know, over 100,000 folks out of power. It pales in comparison to the images that you see over on the coast where people's houses have been washed away, roofs, you know, lives really shifted forever. And you know, the reason, Don, I am so, you know, urgent about our recovery is because we're going to ultimately find ourselves being of aid to our neighbors without a doubt. And we want to play that role, but we've got to get back to 100 percent first.
LEMON: You have been helping out on the ground, helping to clear downed trees and such. What are the biggest challenges right now? GILLUM: Well, today's, you know, mission was really to -- we had, you
know, over 1,000 trees or so come down. We had over 20 of our major roadways that were covered in our community. Today, our utility crews and those -- we've got over 16 utility crews from around the country as far away as Nebraska here on the ground helping us to get our community back, rebuilt, and recovered.
We did substantial progress in removing those physical barriers and even some progress with the restoration today. Tomorrow, we'll continue to remove those barriers and, you know, continue the process of restoring electricity to folks. And then it won't be pretty, but at least folks will be able to get back to normal.
[22:55:12] And, Don, we've began to plan some community events, regardless of whether people have power restored, just to bring our community together and remind us kind of what these moments are about. And that is building strong communities, which requires, you know, strong people and for people to be connected.
And so, you know, we're in some ways sort of moving on and then beginning to play a more support role throughout the region.
LEMON: Mayor Gillum, thank you so much. Good luck to you.
GILLUM: Thanks so much, Don, and again, blessings to all those in your viewership.
LEMON: Yeah. Thank you.
GILLUM: We've got a lot more stories from Hurricane Michael's trail of destruction. Next, a live report from what's being called the storm's ground zero. Plus, a coast guard commander with an update on rescue missions under way tonight.
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