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Don Lemon Tonight

More Details Coming Out Tonight about What Is Believed to be the Horrific Murder of Journalist Jamal Khashoggi; President Trump Siding with a Repressive Regime?; Stormy Daniels Called 'Horseface' by the President of the United States. Aired 10-11p ET

Aired October 16, 2018 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(JOINED IN PROGRESS)

[22:00:01] DON LEMON, CNN HOST: And you don't have to use force. I would suggest that you -- this is by Hawkins. And it just explains, I think, this presidency and where we are, this administration, and where we are now in the moral conscience, the social conscience of this particular time that we're in now.

People may find it as satiric, but I think it does a good job. But because you said when he's strong with the meek and meek with the strong, it's a perfect example of power versus force, which is more important and which one works?

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST: I see your example. You know a lot of time we ask questions and we put it in a form of a question, but we know the answer. I really don't know the answer on this one. I don't know why a man who wants to be seen as strong as badly as he does, doesn't take on the strong. Because that's the only way that you'll get the title that he wants.

He wants to be, you know, the badass of the world, the man who's respected the most. Then you have to go after the other people who want that title. That's not a pack of people flying for their lives from Honduras, fleeing and looking for asylum. That's not how you do it. You go after the tough, but he doesn't do it. Consistently, Don, Putin gives him a break.

We should be friends. Kim, I am sure he loves his country. Duterte, you have to give it to him, man. He's good on the drugs, Xi Jinping, same thing.

LEMON: Yeah.

CUOMO: Now this guy, Salman, I don't get it. I just don't get it.

LEMON: The answer is often in the simplicity. You know the best way to look strong is to actually be strong. And you don't really have to talk about it and discuss it. And by the way, when we're talking in the last segment, and we talked about this President and what he calls Stormy Daniels and how his treatment of women.

It's a simple, you know, a simple analogy what if the former President had done that, but then you say well, all right. Then that would mean that what if a former President or any of the former Presidents has slept with a porn star, and then what if it was an affair, while he, you know, he had a small child at home and he was married. And what if -- and you just keep going down the line, and you wonder where the floor is, if there is even a floor.

CUOMO: Well, look, I think it's a proof of major cataclysm that's going on. And that Trump -- I've said the book that should be written about him is called the luckiest man in the game, because he gets away with things, that no others do. And it's not because of him. It's because of where we are. The disaffection that people have with the process, their desire for somebody different, who seems more like them, or at least seems to get them more.

And who voices their outrage. And he gets a lot of difference because of that. I just don't know how long it will last, because it keeps seeming to abuse that mandate. Although, he is delivering on promises that matter to people, we'll see if that's enough.

LEMON: What if any of your young ones said, I want to grow up to be just like that. What would you say to them?

CUOMO: Did you take my tequila again? No, I -- listen. I always want my kids to aspire to public service. It'd be great. I am the bad boy in my family, because I am the only one that's not doing things to help other people. Everybody else in the family does all these great public services.

LEMON: You underestimate yourself. I think you do public service here, but go on.

CUOMO: I'm guilty of many flaws. One of them is not underestimating myself.

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: But you know, look. I want -- I say to my kids all the time. And this is the truth. This is the kinds of things that only you and I say on television. When my kids -- look, they're in schools and they're in circles where they're not hearing great stuff about the President on a regular basis, you know? They get a little bit of a mix, but not really.

I say to them all the time, don't you talk about the President like that. Just because other people say it, you don't say it. You've got a higher responsibility. You know what I do. You know what family's about. You be fair and you respect people in power. I tell them that all the time. But here's the problem. It used to be that the people in those positions helped reinforce that message that I am giving them.

LEMON: Right.

CUOMO: And now he's working against it.

LEMON: Yup. There you go. There you go. There's much more to talk about. I have a lot of show. Great job Chris, see you tomorrow. Have a good night.

CUOMO: Always a pleasure.

LEMON: You as well. This is CNN TONIGHT. I am Don Lemon. You would think the President of the United States, the leader of the free world would stand up for American values above all else. You know, life, liberty. Well, instead, President Trump is siding tonight with a repressive regime that allegedly sent a hit squad to kidnap, to torture, and to murder a U.S. resident.

President says, and here's a quote, here we go again with, you know, you're guilty until proven innocent. I don't like that. We just went through that with Justice Kavanaugh, and he was innocent all the way, as far as I am concerned. Quite a statement, innocent all the way, you know who else doesn't believe in the innocent until proven guilty thing?

A tenant of our American judicial system, and our American values, you know who doesn't believe in that? The Saudis, and there are more and more details coming out tonight about what is believed to be the horrific murder of journalist Jamal Khashoggi. Sources telling CNN a high ranking Saudi intel officer, one close to the inner circle of the Crown Prince, Mohammed bin Salman, oversaw that mission.

[22:05:07] "The New York Times: is reporting that one of the suspects was a frequent companion of the Crown Prince. Three others linked to his security detail. And of course, there's the forensic doctor, reportedly carrying a bone saw. A Turkish official is saying that Khashoggi's body was dismembered after he was killed. One source is telling CNN that Khashoggi may have been injected with some kind of tranquilizer before he died in the Saudi consulate in Istanbul.

It's horrific. And Turkey has provided CNN with passport scans of seven men that they suspect were part of the alleged Saudi hit squad. The scans made on the day Khashoggi disappeared. And then there is this. The inside of the consulate was cleaned and freshly painted before investigators got inside last night. Multiple suspects with ties to the Crown Prince, a doctor with a bone saw.

The consulate freshly painted. These are not innocent details. We are still waiting for Saudi Arabia to put out that promised report that sources have said would admit Khashoggi's death. Though they're apparently still hoping to sell that story, the story of a botched interrogation, who could possibly buy that?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It sounded to me like maybe these could have been rogue killers. Who knows?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Oh, what American diplomat would sit laughing next to a dictator accused of a brutal murder? That's the focus of the entire global community. Well, the Secretary of State Mike Pompeo met with the Crown Prince today, smiling and thanking him for his transparent investigation, while the President tweets, totally denying that the Crown Prince had any knowledge of what took place.

And that is not all of what the President was tweeting today. It is no coincidence that he made sure to tweet that he has no financial interest in Saudi Arabia. But the fact is he made a lot of money off of them. He told us about it himself. Don't believe me? Roll the tape.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Saudi Arabia and I get along great with all of them. They buy apartments from me. They spend 40 million, 50 million. Am I supposed to dislike them? I like them very much.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: But he never said that. Among the things the Saudis have bought from Donald Trump, the 45th floor of Trump World Tower. Not to mention hundreds of thousands of dollars spent at Trump hotels in Washington, and New York, and Chicago. Compare the President's kid glove treatment of a repressive regime with what really set him off today. This is what really set him off.

That's right, Stormy Daniels. Quote, now I can go after horse face and her third rate lawyer. Yup, that's what the President of the United States was really worked up about today. He actually tweeted that. Your President, our President tweeted that. He called a woman a horseface. In spite of everything that's going on, especially with this missing journalist, people still covering down in the panhandle.

That's what he's concerned about, not holding Saudi Arabia to account right now. Insulting the porn star who says she -- her own admission, she had sex with Donald Trump. But this President really takes it personally when a woman crosses him. And when he fights back, he fights dirty. There is Elizabeth Warren.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Pocahontas, that's this Elizabeth Warren. And Massachusetts is represented by Pocahontas, right? Pocahontas. Pocahontas. Pocahontas. Pocahontas. What an insult to Pocahontas. We have a representative in Congress who they say was here a long time ago. They call her Pocahontas.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: There's his mocking of Kavanaugh accuser, Christine Blasey Ford.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: How did you get home? I don't remember. How did you get there? I don't remember. Where was the place? I don't remember. How many years ago was it? I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. What neighborhood was it? I don't know. Where's the house? I don't know. Upstairs, downstairs, where was it. I don't know. But I had one beer. That's the only thing I remember. (END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: There's his obsession with Hillary Clinton, even though she lost the election to him nearly two years ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: That's why she lost. She doesn't get it. I beat Hillary Clinton easily, many billions of dollars more than they would have had if you had Crooked Hillary Clinton. Crooked Hillary, Crooked Hillary, Crooked Hillary Clinton.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[22:10:07] LEMON: His insults aimed at Maxine Waters.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Maxine Waters, a very low IQ individual. She is a low IQ individual. Maxine Waters, I said it the other day. I mean honestly, she's somewhere in the mid-60s. Maxine Waters, very low IQ, low IQ.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: I could go on and on all night. We have a little bit more time, so let's go on a little more. He mocked Heidi Cruz, Carly Fiorina, both of them for their looks. He falsely claimed that Mika Brzezinski over at MSNBC was bleeding from a face lift. He called his ex-aide, Omarosa, a dog. And then Trump doubled down and told me this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You've called women you don't like fat pigs, dogs, slobs, and disgusting animals.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: And, of course, here's what he said about Access Hollywood, to Access Hollywood about women.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I got to use some Tic-tac's just in case I start kissing her. You know I am automatically attracted to beautiful women. I just start kissing them. It's like a magnet. And when you're a star, they let you do it. You can do anything. Grab them by the pussy. Do anything.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: So lots of tough, really terrible disgusting talk aimed at women. But we're still waiting for this President to get tough on Saudi Arabia. To demand the truth about what happened to Jamal Khashoggi, to stand up for American values, to be the leader of the free world, still waiting. The world is waiting, lots to talk about now, Phil Mudd, Frank Bruni, Michael D'Antonio, right after this break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[22:15:00] LEMON: President Trump siding with the Saudis who are still denying any role in the disappearance and suspected murder of Jamal Khashoggi. But is the President just giving them cover? I want to talk about this now with Phillip Mudd. He's a former CIA counterterrorism official, who briefly worked for the Saudi government in 2010 and 2011.

Also here, Frank Bruni, of "The New York Times" and Michael D'Antonio, who is the author of "The Truth About Trump."

Good evening to everyone.

So Frank, here's the quote from the President tonight. It says here we go again, with, you know, you're guilty until proven innocent. And then he's comparing it to the Kavanaugh hearings. How can he be this dismissive of potential murder and all of these gory details?

FRANK BRUNI, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: I don't know. I mean it's dumbfounding and it's utterly mortifying as an American. He seems intensely invested in his, as you said, covering for the Saudis. It was remarkable yesterday when we heard the President say to the press, I don't know, maybe it was rogue killers or something. And then we learned that that is a theory, that that is the kind of a defense the Saudis are developing and thinking about trotting out.

And here they have the President of the United States sort of floating their PR trial balloon for them. For whatever reasons and I think they're probably about saving face. And Saudi Arabia was the first place -- he went to a big foreign trip and they fettered him and all that. He seems bound and determined to try to help the Saudis convince the world that something out of their control happened to this journalist who walked into their consulate and never walked out.

LEMON: You know that's what I was going to ask you, because first it was the rogue killer theory, and then his defense of the Crown Prince to the Associated Press. Is he not only believing the cover story? Is he helping to construct it?

BRUNI: I think he's helping to construct it. I can't believe that he believes it, but I don't think he cares. I think he sees it as within his -- he sees it in his interest and country's interest.

LEMON: Politically expedient.

BRUNI: To somehow help the Saudis wiggle out of this.

LEMON: Yeah.

BRUNI: And so he's happy to do that, because the morals of this bizarrely seem not to concern him one bit.

LEMON: What were you saying, Michael? MICHAEL D'ANTONIO, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: He is constructing a story. And

this is the thing that he's done all of his life. He says that he's a great builder. Really, what he is, is a big builder of stories. He's always told stories about himself, stories about the United States, stories about the world at large. Everybody's laughing at us.

LEMON: But people fall for it.

D'ANTONIO: Well, it's a narrative. And he is spellbinding, I think, to a lot of folks.

LEMON: Yeah.

D'ANTONIO: But authoritarians and autocrats are his folks. You know this is someone who fell in love with Kim. It's someone who laughed when Duterte said well, reporters are eligible for assassination. He likes this kind of leader. And I -- did you see him on Monday after he came out and (Inaudible) and said I just spoke with the King. Those are words he wanted to say his whole life.

LEMON: Yeah. I got to ask you, and I hate, Phil, to talk about this, because there are people who knew him, colleagues, loved ones. And it's horrific to hear these sorts of details. But Turkish officials are saying that Khashoggi was cut into pieces. And CNN is reporting that a high ranking official with the Saudi intel agency oversaw all of this.

And this officer is close to the Crown Prince's inner circle. And yet, the President accepts Saudi's denials at face value. Why?

PHILIP MUDD, CNN COUNTERTERRORISM ANALYST: Don't ask me. I mean if you look at where the President's coming from, as we're talking about just a moment ago, he likes to be portrayed as someone who can handle heavy hitters around the world. That's Putin. That's Kim Jong-Un. That's Mohammed bin Salman. He wants to be seen as someone who can handle these guys.

The bottom line, though, let me cut to the chase and get to some facts. There are questions the President could ask. Let me get really tactical. What aircraft and the Turks should know this. What aircraft flew into Turkey? We should have the tail numbers of those. Who owns those aircraft? What's the background of the individuals who flew into Turkey? Have they flown into other places?

Do we know they work for the ministry of interior? Do we have independent U.S. intelligence about who ordered this operation? Have we talked to the Turks about whether they have audio from, as they've said they have, audio from the operation, and have they said that they saw cameras in the Saudi consulate when they looked at it over the past 48 hours?

[22:19:52] What did they get from those Saudi cameras? Let me cut to the chase. The President has to get off his fat ass and ask a couple of basic investigative questions about what do we know and whether that information suggests that the Saudis were culpable or not. This is not that hard, Don. It's not that hard. LEMON: Wow. Harsh words there, Phil.

MUDD: I mean, it's -- if you ask an FBI investigator, you could be a 24-year-old FBI investigator and figure this out. You have some forensics here, like whether or not information from within the Saudi industry was destroyed. Do we have that or not? Again, simply, the Turks had to register aircraft coming into the country from Saudi Arabia.

Did they register those aircraft when they landed? Did those aircraft have tail numbers, and who owns those aircraft? How hard is that, Don? That takes about 30 seconds on your show.

LEMON: Yeah. Again, those were tough words. Phil, I am sure stands by those words. Well, I have got to ask you. You talked about evidence, right, Phil? The Turks also say that there was a fresh coat of paint. It was applied before everywhere inside the Saudi consulate before Turkish investigators gained access. Could the mission or the cover-up happen without the knowledge of people at the top?

MUDD: I don't think so. I mean I lived in Saudi Arabia. Look at some of the facts in this case. You're talking about a well known opposition as in Saudi Arabia. The Saudis are worried about opposition, as they saw what happened to other dictator leaders in the Middle East after the Arab spring. They send roughly 15 people on multiple aircraft who presumably have cleared access to a Saudi diplomatic facility. That is the consulate in Istanbul.

You think some guy sat around on Friday night and said, let's have a frat party in Istanbul or Turkey. That's not credible. A bunch of people travelled with the authorization of Saud leadership to interrogate a well known oppositionist. There's no way that happened with a bunch of guys sitting around saying, let's conduct a rogue operation. I don't buy it.

LEMON: Michael, you mentioned earlier when he said he spoke with the king. You said he always wanted to say those words, right?

D'ANTONIO: Correct.

LEMON: But then he tweeted that he spoke with the Crown Prince, and answers are forthcoming. But how can we believe what we hear from the President if he's just taking the Saudis at their word.

D'ANTONIO: We can't believe him most of the time. This is a person who has lied 5,000 times now. He's really detached from reality. And how depraved is he that he can hear about a man being brought into this facility and leaving in pieces and not be completely outraged. And if you think American intelligence officials don't know which aircraft entered that airspace, exactly what happened.

I would be surprised that they wouldn't. This is American intelligence, the best intelligence in the world. The President doesn't have to ask the kingdom. He can ask his own folks and they know.

LEMON: Uh-huh.

BRUNI: Don, can I follow up on something Phil said. Phil said the President wants to show that he can handle strong men. What's so remarkable about this is he's not handling these strong men. He's coddling them. He's making excuses for them. And in fact, in his desire, his palpable, evident desire to please them, he looks weaker than ever. He doesn't look like he's at their level. He looks like he's doing their bidding.

D'ANTONIO: He's thrilled by putting over a story that he thinks people might accept. It's more thrilling to him to fool the world or to imagine that he's fooled the world that to be right.

LEMON: He doesn't really care about reality and truth.

D'ANTONIO: He cares about what benefits Donald Trump.

LEMON: OK.

BRUNI: He doesn't care about human rights.

LEMON: Yeah. Yup, OK, follow the money. And I am talking about to the Trump organization to Donald Trump -- not sure as President, but follow the money to the Saudis. We'll discuss that next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[22:25:00] LEMON: So President Trump may be trying to take the heat off of Saudi Arabia by turning his attention to Stormy Daniels. Insulting her in one of his tweets today, calling her horse face after her defamation suit against him was dismissed. I can't believe I just read that about the President of the United States tweeting that.

Phil Mudd is back, Frank Bruni, and Michael D'Antonio as well. So the world wants to get to the bottom of what happened to the journalist. The President though is lobbying insults against Stormy Daniels on Twitter. I mean if he's trying to distract, it's not working. But is that what this is, an effort to change the news cycle, Michael?

D'ANTONIO: It could be. But this is also...

LEMON: Who he is.

D'ANTONIO: It's deviance. This is a person who's a deviant person breaks the norms. But we also have him in the White House. And Presidents are supposed to set the norms and enforce the norms. So what's happening is what Daniel Patrick Moynihan called defining deviance down. He's decided that anything I say is OK. The public is accepting it to a degree.

I think we've all learned to kind of tune him out. So he's permitted to do these horrible things, say whatever he feels like saying, insult people. And we say well, maybe it's a distraction or it's just the President being the President. But we're using that word, the President. BRUNI: I don't think it's a distraction at all. I think it's a

perfect illustration of his values, right? He cares less about what happened in that consulate than he does about a porn star, insulting the dimensions of his falice and getting into a Twitter war with her. And it's hard to believe that the United States of America, we have a President who is spending his time and his emotional energy in this kind of war of words with a porn star, over his endowment. Like how did we gets there?

(CROSSTALK)

D'ANTONIO: She was OK when he wanted to have sex with her.

(CROSSTALK)

BRUNI: And we're talking about that at a moment when we should be talking about this profound human rights violation, right, this human rights violation by a regime that the President and his son in law have been kissing up to like nobody's business. But instead, he's worried about what someone's saying about his genitalia.

LEMON: Quickly, I have to get back to Phil, and this (Inaudible) conservative pollster Frank Luntz. He said President Trump has taken a harder stance on Canadian milk than on Saudi murder.

MUDD: Absolutely right, absolutely right. He's really tough on the Canadian dairy farmers, big deal.

LEMON: He's tougher on Stormy Daniels.

D'ANTONIO: Absolutely. And this is in light -- in the same moment when the world is trying to find out what happened to this journalist who worked for an American news operation, and was an American resident. And he doesn't care.

LEMON: Yeah. So Phil, this morning, President tweeted that he had no financial interest in Saudi Arabia. But this is not true. And I played it earlier. The President has bragged about all of the money he's made, millions and millions from the Saudis. Phil?

MUDD: I mean, that's -- yeah, that's correct. But I think that the significant question here when we have a President, who is declined to separate himself from his business interests, is the brilliance of the construction of the American republic when you say we have checks and balances. So what does that mean, Don? The Congress is going to step in and say the President has some simple options.

He could call the Europeans and say, how do we collectively so we don't have to operate in isolation and alienate the Saudis. How do we collectively apply things like sanctions against the Saudis? And we go to the Saudis and say look, we have no option. The French, the Brits, and others say we have to do something. Instead, the Congress is going to have to step in, because of this system of checks and balances, and say if the President wants to focus on Stormy Daniels and denying that he paid $130,000 to have sex with a woman who he thinks is unattractive. If he wants to focus on that, the Congress is going to step in and say

we're going to be more severe than you ever would have been, including potentially blocking arms sales. This is when the Congress and people like Marco Rubio are critical, Don. They're just critical.

LEMON: Frank, there was this Washington Post story. It was just last week, where they had obtained a letter. It was from earlier this year by the GM of Trump Hotel in New York. He's crediting the Saudis for boosting the first quarter. The major reason he said is quote, a last minute visit to New York by the Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia.

BRUNI: Right.

LEMON: What's your take here?

BRUNI: Well, I mean I think you're asking the right question. Where is money in this? Where is Trump's personal fortune and his concern about all this. But he's shown a lot of his cards here. I mean he sat down with "60 Minutes." He reiterated something he had said a few days prior. And when asked about what had happened in the Saudi consulate, he said you know, they're spending a lot of money on weapons.

They're paying us for weapons, and I don't want to do anything to queer that. He has made it very clear, that when money comes up against human rights, for Donald Trump, always money will win out, whether that's his own fortune or whether that's the country's economics.

LEMON: (Inaudible) Trump supporters are saying why do you keep harping on the taxes? Isn't that what the tax returns will show? Who you're doing business with? To whom you're indebted? And also, this is why we have the emoluments clause.

BRUNI: We won't know about the purity of his decisions and we won't know which decisions are made free of a conflict of interest unless we know where his money is coming from and who he owes. And that's in the tax returns.

LEMON: Phil, are you concerned at all that the President's financial ties are part of why the President appears to accept the denial so from the Crown Prince.

MUDD: Boy, it's the first time on your show I'm going to be naive. I cannot believe that the President of the United States is putting personal interests above national interests in a case where a human being is murdered. Let me give you one fact, though.

LEMON: You should see Michael's face here, but go on.

MUDD: There's a fascinating piece to all of this. If we're concerned that the President and I would be as well, that the President has inappropriate financial contacts with people like the Saudis and Russians, this is why going back months. If I were the President, I would be deeply worried about the FBI raids on Michael Cohen's office, his hotel, and his home. It's not because I am worried about pay for play in the campaign with

the Russians. If I were the President, I would be worried that the Mueller team is acquiring information that shows that the President had inappropriate real estate transactions with the people like the Russians and the Saudis. I think we're going to find this not through this process with the Saudis today, but with the legal process led by Special Counsel Mueller into the money that people like Jared Cowen and the President spent with the Russians and the Saudis in the past. We're going to find something dirty, Don.

LEMON: You meant Jared Kushner, Jared Kushner.

MUDD: Jared Kushner. I'm sorry. That's great.

LEMON: It's OK. Thank you all, I appreciate it. I appreciate it. Horse face, that's not really Presidential language, is it? But is anyone surprised President Trump attacked Stormy Daniels this way? His long history of insulting women and their appearance, that's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[22:35:00] LEMON: Should we be surprised? I don't know. He did it again today, President Trump insulting another woman who crossed him. This time, its Stormy Daniels, whose defamation lawsuit against the President was tossed by a federal judge. Trump tweeting great, now I can go after horse face and her third rate lawyer in the great state of Texas. She will confirm the letter she signed.

She knows nothing about me, a total con. It's the latest in a long list of insults that the President has hurled at women. So let's discuss now, Margaret Hoover, Scott Jennings, and Symone Sanders, good evening, everyone.

So Margaret, the President of the United States using his platform to call a woman Horse face. And let's just be straight. This is a woman the President and his lawyer paid to keep quiet about their alleged sexual relationship, Margaret.

MARGARET HOOVER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yeah. Not going to help turn out the women for Republicans. I mean that's what we're getting at here.

LEMON: Yeah.

HOOVER: Look.

LEMON: Well, that and it's inappropriate use of his platform. But how many times have we had that conversation, but go on.

[22:39:56] HOOVER: Well, I mean what we're looking at here, I think, the way this plays out is in three weeks in the elections, and where's the enthusiasm. And, you know, the deck is already historically stacked against a sitting President, two years into his term in terms of what's going to happen to the House of Representatives.

It is typical for a sitting President two years into the House of Representatives to lose seats in the House of Representatives. As we know, the generic ballot hugely favors the Democrats right now. There was a bump for Republicans after Kavanaugh. It did really mobilize the energy on the Republican side.

But then the President does something like this, and over and over and over again. And then you'll see that that evaporates.

LEMON: So as a Republican, a woman who votes here, what do you think of that tweet?

HOOVER: Yeah. I mean I am a Republican. I am not a Republican who supports the President's rhetoric, support the President's fascist words, women, or supports any of this behavior in the highest office of the land. So, you know, as an American and as a person, this is beneath the dignity of the office and how anybody should tweet women.

LEMON: And Scott, Trump was asked tonight if it was appropriate to insult a woman's appearance, considering, you know, Margaret just said. Here's what he told the A.P. You can take it anyway you want. I mean he's not only a grown man. He's the President of the United States, the most powerful person in the world. What's wrong with him? Why?

SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I assume he would say if you asked him, he's super mad at her. He's super mad at Michael Avenatti. That's no excuse, though. I don't approve of the language.

LEMON: Can I ask you, Scott?

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: I am going to give you a long time to respond. I am, so don't think I'm cutting you off.

JENNINGS: Sure.

LEMON: Shouldn't he be super mad at himself for actually having the affair allegedly, and then lying about it, about the payment, and then later on his lawyer admitting that it was true. Shouldn't he be mad at himself for that?

JENNINGS: Yeah. Look, nobody looks great here. She doesn't look great. Avenatti doesn't look great for a host of reasons. He doesn't look great for the decisions he's made, both in 2006 and in the language. I think his relationship with women like Stormy Daniels is already sort of baked into his image, and baked in to whatever is going on the election.

So I don't expect this to make a massive impact on the midterms. But I would just say that the President has had eye few weeks here of notching some wins, on the economy, on Kavanaugh, on some other things, to drag this back out and to turn the news cycle into her again. I mean she was sort of off the front page, and now she's back.

And so I just -- I wish she wouldn't. It's not necessary. And it doesn't help him. It doesn't help the Republican Party and it certainly doesn't help the country.

LEMON: Two Republicans here saying the same thing, one Trump supporter and one not. Maybe it was not the right time, especially -- it's wrong. You shouldn't be doing it, right? But considering what happened. So Symone, attacking women, based on their appearance, nothing new for Trump. Stand by. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I'd look her right in that fat ugly face of hers and say, Rosie, you're fired. When you're a star, they let you do it. You can do anything.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Whatever you want?

TRUMP: Grab them by the pussy. You can do anything. I don't believe that Hillary has the stamina. She gets out and she starts asking me all sorts of ridiculous questions. And, you know, you could see there was blood coming out of her eyes, blood coming out of her wherever.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In an interview last week in Rolling Stone Magazine, Donald Trump said the following about you. Quote, look at that face. Would anyone vote for that? Can you imagine that, the face of our next President? Mr. Trump later said he was talking about your persona, not your appearance.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think women all over this country heard very clearly what Mr. Trump said.

TRUMP: We have a representative in Congress who they say was here a long time ago. They call her Pocahontas.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Symone, what does this say about him as a man?

SYMONE SANDERS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Look, the President is clearly not only very comfortable in demeaning and attempting to debase women based on frankly what they look like. He seems to enjoy it. It's something he engages in over and over again. So at some point, we have to accept that this is in fact who the President is.

And if this is who Donald Trump is, is this something we're OK with? I think there are millions of people in America that have noted that it is not. And I think we have an election coming up on November 6th, and we'll have some additional elections after that, where folks can in fact make their voices heard.

But I frankly am wondering, when will more Republican officials, but also Republican operatives stand up and not just, you know, wag their finger at the President, but really, really when are folks going to turn away from him? Is it OK for him to use this rhetoric over and over again, to engage in this type of demeaning and derogatory behavior?

And folks still support him? You know those are real questions, not only I have, but I think folks across the country have today.

[22:44:53] LEMON: Yeah. So we heard from the President. Now, we're going to hear from Stormy and her attorney, Michael Avenatti, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: The President attacking Stormy Daniels and her attorney, back with me now, Margaret Hoover, Scott Jennings and Symone Sanders. So Scott, Stormy Daniels wasted little time firing back. She tweeted this. Ladies and gentlemen, may I present your President. In addition to his shortcomings, he has demonstrated his incompetence, hatred of women, and lack of self-control on Twitter again and perhaps a penchant for bestiality, bestiality.

Game on, tiny, bestiality, game on, tiny, so she's dishing it right back. Do you believe that the President had a sexual relationship with Stormy Daniels?

[22:49:56] JENNINGS: I mean I don't know. He's denied it. I assume if you're paying someone to be quiet about something, there's a reason you're paying them to be quiet about something. And honestly, I don't know that I really care all that much. I think this all could have been handled differently from the start if it did happen.

You know I don't think it would have mattered if it would have come out. I don't think they ever really had to pay her off, because I think he was who he was, and everybody knew that. So in some cases, honesty is the best policy. I regret for him, for her, for his family, for his wife, his kids. I mean no one looks good here.

This is a stain on everybody involved. And it is a drama the country does not need. So I think it's all the way around. I don't think there's sympathy for any of the players involved regarding this specific matter.

LEMON: Let me (Inaudible) everyone knew the kind of man he was, but they didn't know details about Stormy Daniels before the election.

(CROSSTALK)

JENNINGS: But they knew he had had extra marital affairs.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: Yeah, yeah. So, you know, so Margaret, here's what Stormy Daniels (Inaudible). This is Michael Avenatti. Here's what he said earlier on CNN.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAEL AVENATTI, ATTORNEY FOR STORMY DANIELS: I am a father to two daughters, and I know many of your viewers are also fathers and mothers. How do you tell your kids to look up to the President of the United States when he behaves in this manner? It's an absolute joke. And it's a disgrace.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: You know he does have a point there, Margaret. I mean the leader of the country and you see him bullying. How do you explain to your kids? I asked Chris about that earlier, would you say -- most of the time you say -- regardless of -- a kid says I want to be like the President. You go OK, that's fine, regardless of -- if you're Republican or Democrat, right? And this time, I think he has a point.

HOOVER: (Inaudible) moment in our politics as we've discussed many times, where our faith in our institutions, our faith in our office holders, our faith in many of the things that we have traditionally in this country looked up to. Most Americans don't look up to any more. And it is a tragedy, especially if you're somebody who is patriotic who cares about the office, who cares about the country, we want to be able to look up to our elected leaders.

But for some time, you know, as you know, I grew up as a Republican. I grew up in the time of the Clinton presidency. And Republicans were telling, as a child, I heard, as a young person I heard. You respect the office of the presidency, right, and not always its current occupant. This current occupant you might have differences with.

By the way, Americans had no problems, especially the Democrat, after the Clinton presidency, saying they didn't approve of Bill Clinton morally. But they approved of his job in the office. They were able to separate the two. So there's something there. We would -- I would of course, like to look up to the President as an icon, or as a model of the kind of behavior we want.

(CROSSTALK)

HOOVER: And we don't have that now. There is no question. That does not exist. That is not how you get to the Oval Office right now. But like Chris Cuomo said to you earlier, you respect the office of the Presidency. You respect the office. You don't have to respect the behavior of the office holder or the character of the office holder. But if it's about (Inaudible) our faith in the institution, which I still, have. Then you have to respect the office.

LEMON: Even when the person...

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: Go ahead.

SANDERS: Yeah. That was going to be my point. Does respecting the office means that we have to underscore or even sometimes dismiss or turn a blind eye to what the person in the office is in fact doing. And I would actually argue that Donald Trump does not respect the office of presidency. And I also think that things that are different about Donald Trump that's...

(CROSSTALK)

HOOVER: I don't think Margaret disagrees with you by the way. SANDERS: I don't think Margaret disagrees either. I think that's

what people at home -- think that's what people at home because I absolutely think -- I agree with Margaret that I want to respect the office of the presidency. But I think what's different about Donald Trump that we have to remember is that Donald Trump does not bring the level of professionalism to the office of the presidency that many of the former Presidents have brought.

And that's something to say there. He does not seem to bring -- grasping the issues, grasping the importance and the gravity and the gravitas of the platform. And so in that vein, what do we do with the President?

LEMON: When Christine Blasey Ford alleged...

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: Yeah. Come on. When Christine Blasey Ford alleged sexually assault by now Justice Kavanaugh, this President seemed very concerned about the message to young men, Scott. But what message do his attacks send to young men and to young women?

JENNINGS: Well, this back and forth with Stormy Daniels, I mean it does not send a great message to young men, because, you know, obviously, they are now learning about things -- look, I've got four kids at home, and one of them is old enough to listen to the news on the radio on the way to school (Inaudible). We've had to have some uncomfortable conversations about what does this mean and what does that mean.

And so I don't like that. This is not the first President that's held this office that has done immoral things before he became President and while he was President. There has been many. This is the first presidency though where it's been put on blast. And so we are having to have these conversations with our families about them.

[22:55:12] And it is uncomfortable for fathers and mothers out there. And I don't like it. And that's why I ultimately think I would leave Stormy Daniels and Michael Avenatti where they belong. Not on your mind, just put them out of your mind. Ignore it. And don't drag this up every time you have a fleeing angry thought about it.

LEMON: I've got 10 seconds here. But I mean we haven't had a -- he's right. We've had people, and when you think about Clinton. That was the one indiscretion. But to this succession, this many over and over and over again, and we have said -- we would be out of time if we did for two hours or on television. It would be more than two hours.

HOOVER: Yeah. There is no comparison. There is -- Donald Trump is an entirely new character (Inaudible) in the Oval Office as the occupant. And there is no debating that. This is entirely new.

LEMON: Thank you, all. I appreciate it. We have more and more horrifying details to tell you about what happened with Jamal Khashoggi. As the evidence mounts, why is the President still siding with the Saudis?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)