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Don Lemon Tonight

Saudis Confirm Death of Journalist Jamal Khashoggi; Trump Road- Tests New Talking Points to Rile Up His Base; Trump Claims Democrats Behind Migrant Caravan; Saudi Arabia Says Khashoggi Killed in a Fight in Saudi Consulate; CNN Heroes: Chris Stout Vowed to Help Fellow Veterans. Aired 11-12a ET

Aired October 19, 2018 - 23:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[23:00:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DON LEMON, CNN HOST: This is CNN TONIGHT. I'm Don Lemon. Saudi state run news confirming the death of "Washington Post" journalist and U.S. resident Jamal Khashoggi. But the Saudis are continuing to stall, saying it will take them another month to put together report on what they claim happened.

The committee charged with putting together that report, headed by crown prince Mohammed bin Salman, the very same prince who U.S. officials have told CNN had to have known about the operation that ended in Khashoggi's death. The Saudis' first claim, Khashoggi left their consulate in Istanbul even though there was only video of him entering and none of him leaving.

The government's explanation for his death is mind-boggling right now. Here's what they say. The journalist got into a fistfight or a brawl and was killed. It took them over two weeks to produce this explanation. They still haven't explained what happened to his body.

Eighteen Saudi nationals are now in custody and the top intelligence official has been relieved of duty. But the world is still waiting for the truth about exactly what happened.

Let's discuss. David Rohde is here, also Samantha Vinograd and Juliette Kayyem.

Good evening to all of you. It's just unbelievable the number of explanations and the absurdity of especially this last one, all of them have been pretty absurd, but David, originally they said that he left the consulate alive. Now they say he died in a fist-fight. Do they really expect people to believe this?

DAVID ROHDE, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: They want one person to believe that, the Senate, it's Donald Trump. And so far the White House is indicating this is what they wanted to hear. They are going to, I think, you know, accept this explanation and try to change the subject. The question is, will Republicans and Congress do the same thing? Lindsey Graham is already out questioning this. That's a bad sign for the White House.

LEMON: Juliette, exactly what kind of fistfight involves a bone saw and a forensics expert?

JULIETTE KAYYEM, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: One that's a figment of a prince's imagination, I think. I mean, this is insulting our intelligence. We're at the stage now where the United States is not complicit in a cover-up. We are the cover-up. I mean, this is what this is about, is to basically buy some time for the Saudis.

Then the question is, why are the Saudis trying to buy time? As I have been saying a week, I anticipate that dead Saudis will be the new dead Russians. I think these 18 guys and whoever else was involved will be arrested. We will never see them again. Some merely executed. The prince needs to buy time and Donald Trump is giving him at least that.

LEMON: So the Saudis, Sam, didn't even attempt to explain what happened to Khashoggi's body, but President Trump says he believes their story. Take a listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: I do. I do. I mean, it's again, it's early. We haven't finished our review or investigation. But it's -- I think it's a very important first step.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: What does that answer say to you, Sam?

SAMANTHA VINOGRAD, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: It tells me the Saudis have figured something out about Donald Trump that Trump and the Russians and the North Koreans figured out a long time ago, and that is he's incredibly thirsty. Anytime you can throw him a bone so that he can claim some kind of success, he is going to jump at it when it comes to protecting relationships or projects that matter to him.

And in this case, he can now say, well, they said they're doing an investigation. It doesn't matter if it flies in the face of standard operating procedure for law enforcement and intelligence.

[23:05:00] And it's worth noting it doesn't matter if it's completely at odds with what his own intelligence community is probably telling him. We have no indication that our intelligence community or members of the national security team think that this investigation is credible.

So Donald Trump is going rogue on his own intelligence community again and siding with the Saudis because he wants an off-ramp so that he doesn't have to take serious action against them.

LEMON: The president also said tonight, David, responding to this death saying not the simple situation. He's talking about the arms sales to Saudi Arabia. What kind of message does that send to the rest of the world?

ROHDE: It sends to leaders around the world that you can go kill people where you want. You can lure them into your embassies and do what you wish. This whole belief that Saudi Arabia is going to magically stabilize the Middle East is ridiculous.

You know, this is a kingdom that's promised they would take care of Al Qaeda in Afghanistan. They failed to do that. They were going to lead the Syrian opposition and defeat Assad. That was a failure.

So, this is a terrible message. Again, Khashoggi was killed for expressing his political views. That violates like a basic American norm, a basic international norm. We're going to get behind that regime. We're going to back the Saudis. We're going to back, you know, ignoring those ugly truths.

LEMON: This new explanation, Samantha, came out late on a Friday night. What do you make of the timing here? Friday night news drop, do you think?

VINOGRAD: I think the Saudis certainly do business late, 1:00 a.m. is later than usual, but I'm used to having dinner quite late when I'm in the kingdom. But let's remember also that there's several different audiences here.

In Saudi Arabia, it doesn't matter what time the news comes out. It's not a free press. The royal family controls the media. They control free speech. So whenever the message comes out, matters less internally.

It hit during our breaking news cycle. I was on the "situation room" when this went live. It really made headlines this evening in the United States. So I don't know if they were specifically trying to pass this under the radar domestically, but it certainly did not do the trick here in the United States.

And I think, Don, it might actually have the reverse effect when it comes to members of Congress who view this as such a charade that they may be incentivized to take action more quickly because this is so ridiculous.

LEMON: Juliette, you know, the crown prince is now heading the commission to investigate this. How does that work? When the central question is, what did he know?

KAYYEM: Right. It doesn't work and so all of this is fiction. Everyone -- the idea that he's overseeing an independent investigation which almost his entire intelligence apparatus was somehow involved with this I think says to the public and says to us that this is not a serious investigation.

I think the question now, you know, within the kingdom and the news reports about what's happening in the kingdom is, you know, to what extent can the sort of, you know, the prince who went a little bit too far this time possibly sort of miscalculated or misjudged what the reaction would be, might be isolated by the king or there might be changes.

The challenge he has and we've seen this in Latin American countries and other places, he tells a bunch of guys to go do something. We have to assume that's what he did to kill Khashoggi. He then turns on them because he can't face the heat and kills them. That's allegiance issue. And so we just simply don't know what the dynamics are going on within the military.

LEMON: Is that -- is that why you say there's no way the crown prince is going -- sorry for the delay -- is that why you say there's no way the crown prince is going down? You said that. You believe that?

KAYYEM: No, I think what we don't know is the extent to which others within the royal family are so dismayed by what this really reckless prince has done at this stage, not just here but obviously with Lebanon, whether there's any levers to isolate.

The challenge he has internally is, he told a bunch of people, you're authorized to kill someone. He brings them back to Saudi Arabia. Eleven of them are arrested or however many are arrested. Some of them may end up dead. That's a challenge, right? In terms of the allegiance that he may want. This happens -- this is not infrequent. We don't know how this unfolds.

I think the most important thing is -- the take away is, you know, the only reason why he's allowed to do this is because we have a president -- the president is not duped. He is not duped. He knows the Saudis killed Khashoggi.

He is a president who is just simply willing to accept the idiotic explanation at this stage. That is something that, you know, all of us sort of sit back and say, boy, Donald Trump, you know, he just doesn't know how to fight. He doesn't know how to fight.

LEMON: Yeah. For someone who wants to portray strength so much, I think you're right. David, where do we end up on this?

ROHDE: I think it doesn't go away. What's amazing is how this has gone on for three weeks. My colleague, Susan Glasser of "The New Yorker" wrote a column about how the president has prolonged this crisis because he handled it so badly. We could see another tweet or comment this weekend that will just draw more scrutiny to this.

[23:10:00] LEMON: Not to put any fire to you, Sam, but you think the crown prince is up against the clock here. You think it hits close to home for the president because of Mueller?

VINOGRAD: I do. Let me be clear. I by no means want to compare the assassination of a journalist by members of MBS' team with potential conspiracy and collusion with Russia. But we have to just take a step back and think about the fact that President Trump has consistently said that even if there were crimes by his inner circle, by his most trusted advisers, despite the fact that he's a control freak, he just didn't know about it.

It all happened within his inner circle but he wasn't part of it. That's what MBS is saying here, right? MBS is saying there are members of my team, my closest advisers, my security guards that went and did this, but I somehow didn't know, it wasn't me. That strikes me as being very close to home for the president.

LEMON: Thank you very much, everyone. The midterms just 18 days away which explains why the president is spending so much time out on the campaign trail. I want to talk about that. What's going on? What he's doing to fire up his base right now?

[23:15:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: President Trump road testing his favorite new talking point as he ramps up his campaign appearances ahead of the midterms, all in an effort to rile up the base.

I want to bring in now Theodore Johnson, a senior fellow at the Brennan Center for Justice, Ted Johnson. Also, Mark McKinnon, executive producer of "The Circus," which airs Sunday nights on Showtime. We will call him Mark for short.

(LAUGHTER)

LEMON: That was a joke. Good evening. Mark, so President Trump is really hammering home his midterm message. Here he is tonight.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: The choice for every American could not be more clear than it is right now. Democrats produce mobs. Republicans produce jobs.

(APPLAUSE)

TRUMP: So this November, when you're voting, vote for the jobs, not for the mobs. Just do it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: So Mark, Trump is playing into the response from Democrats on Brett Kavanaugh, is that a winning message?

MARK MCKINNON, EXECUTIVE PRODUCER, SHOWTIME'S "THE CIRCUS": Well, I'll tell you, Don, the last time I was at this very spot was in December of 2015. It was the very first Trump rally that I came to. When I came here then, something very different was happening. The crowd was impressive. It was in the middle of the day. They line up for a mile.

Tonight even more impressive. There was a massive crowd and they were very responsive. You can see that the president is returning to his playbook. You're going to hear the mobs, not jobs, a lot between now and the election, and also very sort of timely events happening across the border in terms of playing politically for Donald Trump. The caravan.

The immigration, remember, Mexican rapists coming across the border was in his announcement speech and that really powered up his base. With the caravan, the Honduran immigrants and Central American immigrants heading north, that is very conveniently timed for Donald Trump to wave that specter again of the mobs coming across the border. So, mobs, not jobs, and mobs coming across the border, you're going to hear a lot more about that.

LEMON: Again, I think it's -- I think that sort of situation when you see the folks coming over the border considering what's happening with immigration, this may be a winning strategy for Trump's base and maybe the Republicans because that is definitely where they live.

So Ted, President Trump says that the midterms will be about four things. Kavanaugh, law and order, the caravan, and common sense. Smart move, you think?

THEODORE JOHNSON, SENIOR FELLOW, BRENNAN CENTER FOR JUSTICE: I think so. I mean, again, this isn't a policy discussion that Trump is having with the folks that are supporting him. What he's trying to do is sort of stir them up and pander to the base with some of this red meat rhetoric and get them to the polls.

The reason Trump did so well in the primaries in '16 and ultimately in the election is because a lot of white working class voters that didn't show up previously or showed up and voted for Obama decided to vote for Trump. If he can maintain that high level of turnout among that cohort, he's got a shot.

The only way that happens or at least in the trump world, the only way that happens, if he's able to make them angry, if he's able to make them scared. And so what we're seeing now is the exact sort of rhetoric that's meant to do that in hopes that they will show up on November -- in November to support him.

LEMON: So then what's the strategy -- what's the strategy as a Democrat? How does a Democrat counter this mob label?

JOHNSON: Yeah. So number one, I don't think the Democrats can counter hate with hate or try to reason with some of these outlandish claims the president is making. So the Democrats are going to have to play the turnout battle as well, and they're going to have to look at what the Democratic base is most interested in and make appeals that will get those folks off the couch and in front of the polls.

It's been well chronicled and reported that the reason Hillary Clinton didn't win in 2016 was because of folks that didn't show up to vote or folks that again made the switch to Trump. So the Democrats are not trying to compete with Trump on a point to point and win over some of his folks. What they're trying to do is get those folks that didn't show up in '16 out and mobilized to support them.

And if we can take any clue from some of the previous elections like Alabama's special election, Virginia's gubernatorial election, turnout is what is going to deliver Democrats' victories and the way it's looking, they've got a pretty good shot.

LEMON: Mark, Trump is also back to one of his favorite tactics which is peddling anger. He made a joke praising a congressman for body slamming a reporter saying he's my guy. Today, he didn't back down from that, Mark.

[23:19:59] He's completely tone deaf given the situation in Saudi Arabia, but maybe not tone deaf when it comes to what his base or what the people in those rallies really want to hear.

MCKINNON: He never backs down, Don. I mean, this has worked for him from day one. Being aggressive, taking on the media. He is certainly seems tone deaf in terms of what is happening in Saudi Arabia but, you know, he's looking at what's happening here in America, he's looking at what's happening in 20 days. That's where his focus is right now

I can tell, from what we saw here today in Mesa, Arizona, his base is fired up. You know, in a way they really weren't two weeks ago. Kavanaugh, immigration, whatever it is, you can really feel a lot more Republican heat out here right now.

LEMON: Yeah. So how can Republicans say that President Trump is not saying anything dangerous but Democrats are somehow the angry mob? I really want to understand that, Mark.

MCKINNON: Well, you know, Donald Trump, the angry mob is really the press corps. Actually, it's people. If you look out here, whenever he mentions the press, his people turn into an angry mob about the press. I frankly worry that it won't be long before there is going to be some sort of violence toward the press. You really see it out here.

These Trump supporters are very loyal, very fired up. When he attacks the press, you can really see the anger in people's faces. They take it personally. That's a really dangerous equation that I think is ultimately there's going to be some consequences.

LEMON: Ted, let me read from this piece that you wrote for "Politico." You say, how 2018 became the year of the progressive. You write, skilled black candidates are winning democratic nominations not despite being progressive but precise because they're running to the left of their competition to have a shot at winning white liberals.

You point to Andrew Gillum down in Florida and then Stacey Abrams in Georgia and Boston's Ayanna Pressley as prime examples. Explain that.

JOHNSON: Yeah. This is really savvy campaign strategy by these candidates. What they realized is that if they -- if you were a pragmatic moderate in a primary, Republican or Democrat, you're not going to inspire folks to support you. You have to -- the folks that typically turn out for primaries tend to be those who are pretty enthusiastic about some of the far-right, far-left positions that the party supports.

So if you are a Democratic candidate and you want to win a primary, you need to be progressive and that's something that's happened I think since Bernie Sanders ran in '16. And certainly, what all the polling shows is that white Democrats in particular are becoming more liberal especially when confronted with more conservative Republican Party.

So what Abrams, what Gillum, and Pressley to some extent, what they've done is managed to attract white liberals by running on progressive policy platforms. But they also, because they are running historic candidacies and African-American, they can turn out the African- American vote as well, not based on the progressive policies because as you well know, African-Americans are a pretty conservative bunch, small-c conservative, but certainly no monolith and certainly not predominantly far-left liberals.

And so by turning out white liberals and pairing those folks with sharing sort of your lived experience as a black person in America, you pair black voters with white liberals and what we've seen in Georgia, what we've seen in Florida, and with Pressley defeating Capuano is that formula works for primaries.

LEMON: OK. All right.

JOHNSON: What we'll learn now is whether that works in the general in a few weeks.

LEMON: Yeah, in the midterms. So Mark, in this week's episode of "The Circus," Democratic Senator Heidi Heitkamp apologizes for her sexual assault survivors ad. Here's a clip.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. HEIDI HEITKAMP (D), NORTH DAKOTA: I want to start out by talking a little bit about a story that happened today. A number of brave women came forward and put their name on a letter that we sponsored in the paper. And unfortunately, in that process, the campaign did not double-check a number of the names. And so those names inadvertently ended up on the letter. This has caused tremendous concern and hurt for a lot of the women who were listed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: So it's not just this misstep, Mark. She's a Democrat in a red state that Trump won. Does she have a shot?

MCKINNON: Not anymore really, to be candid about it, Don. She had a tough race already. It was a tragic situation for those survivors whose names got out. It's consequential for the campaign. It was a long shot before. This is just a truly disastrous situation and a sad one, as you can see from part of that interview.

[23:25:00] We'll see more of it Sunday night. This was a very personal issue for Heidi Heitkamp. She took a really courageous vote that was counter to what was politically popular in her state, and now she is paying the price for that vote, but also for the consequences of the action of her campaign.

LEMON: I can't wait to see "The Circus" on Sunday night. Mr. Mark McKinnon, thank you very much. Thank you to Ted or Theodore Johnson. Kick it hard. Enjoy your time there, and I'll see you both soon.

The president falsely claiming that a massive migrant caravan was organized by Democrats. How he's using this lie to energize his base.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Tonight, a caravan of thousands of migrants has reached Mexico's southern border. I want you to check out this powerful new video showing a bridge on the border between Guatemala and Mexico, migrants trying to make their way into Mexico, some hoping to make it into the U.S., breaking through a locked steel fence with Mexican police in riot gear trying to push them back. This as President Trump doubles down on his claim that the migrants are criminals.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

[23:30:01] UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): What evidence do you have these are hardened criminals?

TRUMP: Oh, please, please, don't be a baby, OK? Take a look. Just take a look.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: Don't be a baby. That must be the president's new favorite line.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I know these things. I mean, I'm not a baby, but I'm not saying I trust everybody in the White House. I'm not a baby. I always used to say the toughest people are Manhattan real estate guys and blah, blah (ph). Now I say they're babies. They're babies.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Who is it now?

TRUMP: The political people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: So now here with me Keith Boykin, Maria Cardona, Alice Stewart, and Scott Jennings. We'll move on to the caravan thing, which I want to talk about. But Scott, just explain to me the baby comments lately. What's up with that?

SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think -- I think what the president is trying to say is sometimes people may be a little Pollyannaish about the problems in the world. And he's saying I'm a realist and I'm going to talk in realistic terms. I think that's the message he's trying to send to his base and I think that's kind of the language his folks respond to. So, I expect more of it from the president.

LEMON: Scott, don't be a baby.

JENNINGS: I'll try. I tell you what, it's late. I might sleep like a baby being up this late. I'll tell you that.

LEMON: Oh, my gosh. Oh, wow. It's 11:30. It's dinner time in New York City. OK. So, what's --

JENNINGS: I got four kids, man. I'm in bed by 9.30 usually, man. This is late for me.

LEMON: That's a -- that's another -- that's a horse of another color. That's another problem. A whole other show as they say. So, Maria, let's talk about this caravan. President Trump without any evidence says this caravan of migrants was actually organized by Democrats and criminals are crossing the border. What do you think about the claim?

MARIA CARDONA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: It's ridiculous and it's a lie. But then again, it's Donald Trump. So why are we expecting anything less than that? This is vintage Donald Trump. He's going into a midterm election cycle where he and Republicans are extremely scared about the prospects of losing at least the House, if not the Senate, though they're probably more comfortable about the Senate now.

But they know what worked for Trump in 2016 -- and I heard you talking about there with your earlier panel -- is injecting fear, injecting fear in his base to make sure they are ginned up, to make sure they come out and vote, to make sure they don't stay home, to make sure that they know what's on the line, and when he talks about this caravan of people that are all full of criminals and that Democrats are funding them, it is to inject that kind of fear. I don't think it's going to work.

LEMON: OK. Let me say this. Let me say this. OK. I disagree with you on that.

CARDONA: All right. We can talk about it in a minute.

LEMON: I'm not saying that I believe -- I'm not saying I believe in any of it what he's saying is right.

CARDONA: Of course, I know.

LEMON: I think the worst thing that could have happened for Democrats is for people to see these crowds of people marching towards the United States is as if it was on cue that Republicans or the president -- not necessarily Republicans -- the president's supporters said, "All right, here we go. All these people are trying to get into our country illegally. They're trying to get our jobs. They're trying to get our services. The president is exactly right. We need to get out and vote and fight to make sure that we keep these people out so that we can keep our jobs that they don't take them and our economy can stay like it is."

I actually think this is a winning strategy and I think the president is right when he says this is going to all be about the caravan. I'm not saying I agree with this --

CARDONA: Right.

LEMON: -- but it's a smart winning strategy. You know why? Because fear drives people to the polls more so than anger. Democrats are angry. Republicans are afraid. The president is ginning that up.

CARDONA: Well, except for Democrats are also extremely afraid of another two years of a Republican-run Congress that completely looks away from anything that Trump does.

LEMON: OK. It's not the immediate fear like when you see hoards of people coming across the border.

ALICE STEWART, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Don.

CARDONA: No, I agree with you.

LEMON: And there's no -- hold on. Hold on. Alice -- I'm going to let -- Alice, I'm going to let you jump in first right after this. Because the president has the megaphone right now, the bullhorn.

CARDONA: That's right. You are right.

LEMON: Yeah. And he can gin up the fear more than any Democrat.

CARDONA: No question. And we should be afraid.

LEMON: Go ahead, Alice.

STEWART: Don, you say -- you say this as if this just happened to come about. Where have these people been for the last year and a half? This was clearly coordinated by those on the left. Unfortunately, it will backfire.

CARDONA: Oh, come on, Alice.

STEWART: If you remember, Donald Trump ran and won on building a wall and Mexico will pay for it. Of course, I knew that would never happen but a lot of the --

CARDONA: Alice, you know that won't happen.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: Hold on. Hold on. Alice, you're saying the migrants were organized by Democrats?

STEWART: Democrats clearly are trying to paint the optics that this president is being rough on people trying to come into there country and heartless to those trying --

(CROSSTALK)

CARDONA: That is true.

STEWART: Here's my point. Here's my point.

LEMON: Alice.

CARDONA: That's different than Democrats organizing this.

STEWART: This is -- this is classic -- this will help Donald Trump because this is what he run on. This is what he wants on this thing, tough on the border. And he will be able to show that he's being tough. We can help Mexico as they try to help prevent these people from coming into our country as Secretary Pompeo said. Donald Trump says if we need to send the military down there, we will do that.

[23:35:10] LEMON: OK. I just want -- I want to get Keith in, Alice, just for time purposes. Keith, go ahead.

KEITH BOYKIN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Alice, first -- two things. First, I don't know how this would benefit the Democrats to create these all sort of --

CARDONA: Exactly.

BOYKIN: -- the parade of people coming from a different country. But secondly, I just want to relay something very personal. I know someone very close to me, who is a Cuban citizen, he fled this year Cuba this year and moved to Chile. He's an undocumented immigrant. He lost his job a few weeks ago. He's trying to survive in a country where he doesn't have citizenship. And he's thinking about what he's going to do, how he can survive, and maybe he wants to come to the United States or come somewhere else.

These people are desperate. They're not moving around to the United States because they want to follow Trump's agenda. My friend, who is in Chile, doesn't even know what Trump is talking about. They're not paying attention to Donald Trump in the news. They're paying attention to their daily life circumstances and they're daily life circumstances are so dire that these people want to get out and they want --

LEMON: We got -- listen, I don't disagrees with that. What I'm saying as a political strategy right now that these optics don't work for Democrats. You may think people feel, oh, my gosh, these people want a better life, and they do. I'm just being a realist here because -- what I see coming on this election night is 2016 all over again.

BOYKIN: The optics may not be -- the optics may not work, but the other factors that healthcare is the big issue people are concerned about this year.

CARDONA: Yes. Exactly.

LEMON: I understand that.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: But healthcare -- you don't see hoards of people coming across a bridge and feeding right into the political strategy of there president.

(CROSSTALK)

BOYKIN: It doesn't motivate the rest of the voters though.

LEMON: But that's the point.

CARDONA: But Don, you know also --

BOYKIN: What I'm saying immigration --

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: -- that's what you need to get to the polls. BOYKIN: Healthcare, taxes, corruption, all those things motivate Democrats.

LEMON: All right. I got to go. We're two minutes over. I'm sorry. We'll be right back. Don't go anywhere.

[23:40:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: All right. Back with me now Keith, Maria, Alice and Scott. OK. So, Alice, you said that -- I'm really trying to understand this -- that the -- you said the Democrats, right, like put this all together, like -- I don't -- explain that. Did they call Honduras and like -- I don't know. I'm just trying to --

STEWART: Look at those pictures. Don, look at those pictures. You can't tell me that these people just sat around one day and said, "Hey, let's all -- let's all get together and go into the United States." This is clearly coordinated. And I think it is wise for the president now before they get here to say that we're not going to stand for this. Secretary Pompeo going down there and meeting with president of Mexico saying he will do what Mexico needs to help them in their efforts.

LEMON: But Alice, listen, I respect your opinion, but you know this happens often, right?

BOYKIN: Every year.

STEWART: Every year.

LEMON: They get together because it's safety in numbers. They feel if they travel in numbers that they have a better chance of getting to their destination.

CARDONA: They are organized by migrants rights groups in these countries.

BOYKIN: Democrats can't even organize people in America to vote for Hillary Clinton. How are they going to organize people in a different country to march to the United States?

CARDONA: Thank you. Exactly. That's right. So, that's a ridiculous lie by President Trump that clearly the right is now repeating. And you're, Don, this is worse for them. And I hope Democrats are scared and continue to work our butts off to get our people out to vote.

But Republicans, there's also a danger here. What happened the last time we had caravans on the boarder? Trump -- the Trump administration started ripping babies from the arms of their mothers. White suburban Republican women as well as decent Americans around the country were pissed off at that and did not like that. They already said they're thinking about doing that again.

LEMON: So, Scott, you've been standing by patiently. You were actually smiling at my assessment, right? You were like, wow, I can't believe I'm hearing his thing. I'm just -- I call it as I see it. So, listen. Bill Weier who is traveling with the caravan, Scott, is reporting about many of the migrants saying they are telling him they're not actually headed for the U.S. So, I'm wondering if that poke holes in Trump's argument this is a security issue for our country.

JENNINGS: No, I don't think it does because I think the point you made is just right. You have images on television that the president can point to that makes his point, but you have all these immigrants who were trying to flood into the United States.

Look, there are very good reasons why these people leave. They -- many of them don't have jobs. The once that do have jobs have very low wages and many live in places that are extremely violent. So, they have good reasons for leaving their homes to go somewhere else. I think the political point though, which is what we were discussing originally, Don, you made it perfectly. This plays into the president's core message. We do not have the adequate border security. I want to give it to you and the Democrats don't. It's a simple message.

LEMON: Right on. You're right.

JENNINGS: You're in the midterm where you're trying to get your base turning out --

LEMON: You're right, Scott.

JENNINGS: -- that's the kind of stuff that --

LEMON: You're right. That works. That's the point that I made. You're exactly right. But let me ask you this because I've got to get to another break. Do you think the Democrats are behind this as Alice does?

JENNINGS: No. Like I said I think there's very good reasons why these people get together and try to leave where they are because, frankly, where they live is, in many cases, pretty terrible. So, I think there's legitimate reasons for leaving their homes. And I wish them the best. But no, be I don't think --

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: Politically, it's not -- but politically, it's not a good image for Democrats because that fear will drive Republicans to the polls.

CARDONA: But it could also drive Democrats, Don.

LEMON: It could. They could. I'm just saying --

[23:45:01] CARDONA: In a lot of these swing states --

LEMON: All right.

CARDONA: -- a lot of these states where Republicans are running have majority Latino populations. This is not -- LEMON: Democrats are in trouble with the Latino --

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: The support is soft among Latinos for Democrats. You know that?

CARDONA: It's not though. What is happening is that they're not being captured in polls of likely voters because they haven't voted before.

STEWART: And is also --

CARDONA: The intentions of Latinos to vote in this election is in the high 70s.

LEMON: But my last guest was telling me in the break that they did a study and they found 55 percent of registered Latinos had not been contact by Democrats.

CARDONA: That's right. But in that same study -- in that same study, a high 70 percentage of Latinos had an intention to go vote against the Republican in their districts.

LEMON: OK. All right.

CARDONA: We've never seen that number before.

LEMON: Point taken. Everybody stick around. Jamal Khashoggi's editor at "the Washington Post" is blunt about the Saudi's claims that he died in a fight calling that utter bs.

[23:50:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Jamal Khashoggi's editor at "The Washington Post" saying what everyone is thinking, every thinking person knows about the Saudi's absurd claim that Khashoggi was killed in a fight. Karen Attiah tweeting two words, quote, "Utter bullshit."

Back now with Keith, Maria, Alice, and Scott. So, what do you make of this? What they're saying now, Maria, is the scenario of what happened, that it was somebody else's fault, of course. And then now, you have the editor saying it's B.S., not buying any of it.

CARDONA: Yeah. Of course, she's right. You know what is just completely astounding to me, Don, is that we've been seeing in real time for the past several days, not just hours, but days, how the Saudis are making it up as they go along. And even we're finding out, as they're making it up, what explanation they think -- not just the world -- but what explanation they think Donald Trump will buy.

And to me, that's just so incredibly disgusting that the leader of the free world, the commander in chief, the president of the United States, is being had, is being taken advantage of. We look like idiots because he is buying all of this, and he's doing it knowingly --

LEMON: OK. CARDONA: -- because he's putting money and profits on top of human rights and human life.

LEMON: I have a short time left. I want to get Keith in. What do you think? The president says he believes it. What should he do now?

BOYKIN: I don't think he's being had. I disagree a little bit with what Maria said because I feel like he knows. He knew all along I think that the Saudis were behind it because the intelligence officials were telling him that -- the United States. Yes, he doesn't believe the intelligence officials off. He didn't believe them about the 17 intelligence agencies about Russia. But Donald Trump is complicit in some ways, not in the murder of Khashoggi himself.

CARDONA: Well, maybe.

BOYKIN: But we possibly so argue (ph) in the sense that he --

CARDONA: Because of his language.

BOYKIN: -- gave his green light. But he's complicit in failing to hold them accountable and that's what's so disturbing about this. And then to go on to a rally and talk about endorsing and praising Greg Gianforte for --

CARDONA: Exactly.

BOYKIN: -- attacking a journalist right at -- right as this is happening with a journalist being killed. I mean that's not just telling that. That's just -- it's callous.

LEMON: So, Alice, Senator Lindsey Graham tweeted tonight he said, "To say that I'm skeptical of the new Saudi narrative about Mr. Khashoggi's death is an understatement." The president is not on the same page, right?

STEWART: No. And he hasn't been. Lindsey Graham has been very forceful in his frustration with this from the very beginning and saying we need to get to the bottom of this and we need to do that very quickly. I wish he could pull the president and Jared Kushner of to the side and share some of that frustration.

Look. I think more than anything the president needs to make it quite clear that there are repercussions for this. We all knew what was happening here from the very beginning. You don't go to interview someone with a bone saw. You go interview them with a pen and paper. So, we all knew what happened here from the very beginning.

LEMON: OK.

STEAWART: And he needs to make sure that there are sanctions on the table, not just with regard to -- it could be travel sanctions. It could be with military arms trade sanctions --

LEMON: But they need to do something strong.

STEWART: -- but they need to be clear there are consequences. And this is not just about the murder of a journalist --

LEMON: I got to get Scott in --

STEWART: -- this is about free speech worldwide.

LEMON: -- before I'm out of time. Scott, What do you make of this?

JENNINGS: Yeah. Look, we know what the deal is. The CIA knows. The president is weighing our options given the complex politics of the Middle East. But Maria, it is -- it's outrageous to assert the president is complicit in the murder. I know he is trying to figure out what to do in the aftermath but you just said he is just complicit in the murder --

CARDONA: The language that he uses, Scott --

JENNINGS: That's outlandish. That's outlandish.

CARDONA: He -- the language he uses about the press being the enemy of the people and enemy of all of this government --

(CROSSTALK)

JENNINGS: I hear you. It's outlandish to say the president of the United States had anything to do with the murder.

CARDONA: I'm sorry. It's not outlandish.

JENNINGS: You know it. You know it's outlandish.

CARDONA: It's not outlandish because he is giving a green light to all of the dictators to do whatever they want to do with the people that write things that they disagree with.

LEMON: OK.

CARDONA: And if you -- and if you don't believe that, then you're being a baby.

LEMON: Wow. OK. We'll end on that. That's a good place to end it. Thank you, everyone. We'll be right back.

[23:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Despite having vowed to give their lives to defend their country, many veterans have trouble getting the support they need after leaving the military. In fact, nearly 10 percent of homeless adults in the United States once served in the Armed Forces. When Army combat veteran, Chris, out saw some of his former comrades falling to the cracks, he built a solution to help them. That's why he's this week's CNN hero.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What branch are you? CHRIS STOUT, ARMY VETERAN: After starting to work with veterans, I realized there's a huge gap in services. If you've ever served, you know that if one of your fellow platoon guys they need help, we help give them.

What we do here, we give them an opportunity to kind of get stable, give them a safe and secure place, and then fix what got them there in the first place.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right, man.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: More than 650 cities are interested in replicating Chris' program which will expand to Nashville next year. To find out more, go to cnnheroes.com.

Thanks for watching. Our coverage continues.