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Don Lemon Tonight

Obama Out in the Field to Campaign for Democrats; Trump Exaggerating the Caravan Issue; From Lying Ted to Beautiful Texas Ted; Donald Trump Campaigning for Ted Cruz; Saudi Arabia's Involvement in the Murder of Jamal Khashoggi. Aired 10-11p ET

Aired October 22, 2018 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(JOINED IN PROGRESS)

[22:00:00] CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST: Elections are about what the people want. This is the time to test. We'll see where the people are. Thank you for watching. "CNN TONIGHT" with Don Lemon starts right now.

DON LEMON, CNN HOST: Look at that. You're done 10 p.m. On the news. Sometimes I'm waiting for you like, come on, Chris, move it along.

CUOMO: You know, in truth, I apologize for that.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: No, I don't care. I'm joking.

CUOMO: I don't want to deliver to you late.

LEMON: No, no, no.

CUOMO: It is without question the most important aspect of the production of my show--

LEMON: Yes.

CUOMO: -- is being on time for you. It is.

LEMON: Best part of your show. People say I love it when you and Chris talk.

CUOMO: It is true.

LEMON: They call it raw news, or whatever.

CUOMO: It bothers me. It bothers me. Two reasons. One, I don't like bromance. Why? Why can't men be friends? Why does it have to be a stupid label attached to it? And second it would be a weird we're mismatch I'm so much better looking at you. It would be a weird couple. And two, I don't like that people like when I'm with more than what I'm not.

LEMON: Hey. You said this to me on the phone the other day. You said, we'll have a show together one day.

CUOMO: Yes.

LEMON: I do, I truly believe it.

CUOMO: I believe it.

LEMON: Yes.

CUOMO: It will probably be a game show where like you'll ask the questions and I'll like beat people up who get them wrong.

LEMON: So, sowing division. That is what this is all about because my take is, is that fear drives people to the polls to go vote more so than people being angry. I think fear is a bigger motivator than anger.

CUOMO: A 100 percent right. Most effective ads in a campaign, negative ads. The things that move humanity the most in big public movements, negative reaction to things unless - unless you have an overriding exigency, which is one of throw things.

One, you have a horrible thing that happens. God forbids. God forbids. I hope we don't live that. But it's where people are forced to come together because you start seeing the big things is more important than what we're fighting about right now.

LEMON: Yes.

CUOMO: The second thing that is an overpowering message with a message that beats what's out there right now. That I don't see coming.

LEMON: Yes. And well, that would be the falsity of what's happening because, listen, the president has been wrong and has really just lied or overstated or embellished this whole what he called a crisis on the border with a caravan. Simply what he says about it is not true.

And those people are so far away from the border, many of them won't even get to the United States. And guess what? The process is people come in. They claim asylum, and then we get to process them. That is actually the legal way to do it.

Now, if you're, you know, going across the border that's not without going through the process, then that's illegal. But that's what they're doing. People come in all the time. They claim asylum. We process them. We either let them in, or we don't let them in.

CUOMO: Yes, but this is bad optics.

LEMON: It is, it's bad optics, but I think it's bad optics for Democrats. I think these plays right into--

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: A hundred percent.

LEMON: -- President Trump's hands. CUOMO: And they're too quiet right now.

LEMON: Yes.

CUOMO: They're too quite right now, the Democrats, because they're in a box.

LEMON: Right.

CUOMO: Because they don't fight the fight on the basis of illegal immigration being bad, we got to fix the system. We have to do more to figure out the right way to process and how to encourage people to come here the right way. They don't fight that fight. They've ceded that ground to the Republicans.

And now they have what does look like on television an invading force you have coming to your border right now. And it plays to Trump's politics. It just does.

LEMON: But you know most people who come here illegally come over on airplanes. They overstay their visa.

CUOMO: Eighty percent.

LEMON: Eighty percent. But then we have this whole, the border, the crisis at the border, my gosh. These people would--

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: Optics. Perception is reality.

LEMON: When Europeans and come over they overstay our visas. That's where our biggest problem with immigration and no one--

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: That was true until right now.

LEMON: Yes.

CUOMO: Because now you have this freakishly large group of people.

LEMON: Right.

CUOMO: And you're going to have a problem when they get here because it's going to be too big a group to go through the ports of entry the right way.

LEMON: All of them won't get here. And we have this caravan, we have these people coming over -- we have people coming over -- I hate that these people. I hate that. I didn't mean it--

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: I'm worried about it, Don. We're going to be down there when they get closer. I can feel it. LEMON: Yes. But people come over in that way, in caravans. That

happens occasionally. This isn't the first time. But, yes, sowing division, sowing division and the truth does matter.

CUOMO: He's a heck of a seamstress when it comes to that kind of sowing.

LEMON: And there you go. See you tomorrow. Nice show.

This is CNN TONIGHT. I'm Don Lemon.

So, let's continue talking about this, OK? Because the president is -- he attended a campaign rally tonight in Texas for Senator Ted Cruz, his old nemesis who is now his BFF.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: You know we had our little difficulties and then it ended, and I'll tell you what. Nobody has helped me more with your tax cuts, with your regulations, with all of the things that we're doing including military and our vets, than Senator Ted Cruz. Nobody.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[22:05:01] LEMON: So it's pretty obvious. You don't need me to tell this but I will. The president is firing up his base with the issue that helped propel him into the White House in 2016, which is slamming undocumented immigrants crossing the southern border with Mexico.

Specifically going after this caravan of migrants from Central America, who are currently in southern Mexico. More than 1,000 miles, more than 1,000 miles from the U.S. They are marching northward.

Many are expected to seek asylum from the violence plaguing their native countries, but Trump's having none of it. He's seizing on unsubstantiated, right-wing media reports that the caravans been infiltrated by criminals and unknown Middle Easterners, a claim he made again tonight without offering a shred of evidence.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: As the caravan -- and, look, that is an assault on our country. That's an assault. And in that caravan, you have some very bad people. You have some very bad people. And we can't let that happen to our country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: So, I said it when this all started, and I've been saying it, and I'll say it again. It's a message that is tailor-made for his base. Time for maximum impact and amplified by Fox News. Fox Business host Lou Dobbs, he's calling the migrant care vein a full-blown national security crisis. And on Fox & Friends this morning, the show the president regularly watches, one host saying this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You've got the president of Guatemala saying to a local newspaper down there just last week, they caught over 100 ISIS fighters in Guatemala, trying to--

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Could we use this caravan?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: But luckily, not everyone at Fox News is having it. Anchor Shep Smith getting back to the facts.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHEPARD SMITH, FOX NEWS HOST: President Trump is calling the caravan a national emergency, and he's claiming criminals and unknown Middle Easterners are mixed in with the crowd. An important note. Fox News knows of no evidence to suggest the president is accurate on that matter, and the president has offered no evidence to support what he has said.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: The White House Press Secretary, Sarah Sanders, you know her. She was asked by reporters if the president has credible evidence that there are Middle Easterners in the caravan. You know what that means when they say Middle Easterners, they're trying to make people believe, my gosh, terrorists, they're coming into the country, ISIS. That's just happening.

But here's her reply. Quote, "Absolutely we have." We're still waiting to hear what that evidence is, though. Might be waiting for quite a while. And while President Trump claims that Middle Easterners are part of the caravan, racing the specter of terrorism without offering even a shred of truth, he continues coddling the Saudi government after the murder of Jamal Khashoggi in the Saudi consulate in Istanbul.

It appears that Khashoggi's life is not as important to him as an arms deal with the Saudis. Here's what the president said just today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I don't want to lose all of that investment that's being made in our country. I don't want to lose a million jobs. I don't want to lose $110 billion in terms of investment. But it's really $450 billion if you include other than military. So that's very important.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: OK. Over a million jobs. Take note of that number. Then $450 billion. So, watch those numbers. OK. First, one million jobs. It wasn't always so. That's according to the president himself.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: We're talking about over 40,000 jobs in the United States. It's $110 billion. I believe it's the largest order ever made. It's 450,000 jobs.

It's 500,000 jobs, American jobs. I would prefer that we don't use as retribution canceling $110 billion worth of work, which means 600,000 jobs.

I think it's over a million jobs. That's not helpful for us to cancel an order like that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: We're like, what was it again? Like, 40,000 jobs to over a million. Over a million jobs. That's hard to believe. And there's a reason for that.

At the time the deal was signed last year, the State Department estimated it would potentially support tens of thousands of new jobs in the U.S., potentially. By the way, to date, Saudi Arabia has only completed $14.5 billion in purchases. So, with $14.5 billion 450 billion as he said.

With two weeks to go until the midterm elections, President Trump and his aides will not be bothered by the truth.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[22:10:00] TRUMP: Remember it's going to be an election of the caravan. You know what I'm talking about. As you know, I'm willing to send the military to defend our southern border if necessary.

(APPLAUSE)

TRUMP: All caused because of the illegal immigration onslaught brought by the Democrats because they refuse to acknowledge or to change the laws.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: So, facts again. That's just false. Here's the truth. Democrats are onboard to make serious changes in the nation's immigration laws. But the issue has reached a stalemate in Congress. That's the truth.

And he's wrong about spending the -- sending -- excuse me -- the military to the border. The Posse Comitatus Act forbids using the military for civil law enforcement duties outside of military bases.

So the president is also up to his old tricks again, scaring his base into believing there is massive voter fraud in the country. He tweeted just this weekend, "all levels of government and law enforcement are watching carefully for voter fraud, including during early voting."

I said that loud because that's the way he did it in all caps. Again, the president is wrong. Study after study after study after study concludes that there is virtually no voter fraud in the U.S. no matter what you hear.

The Washington Post reports that in 2016 -- in the 2016 election, more than 135 million votes were cast, and there were -- guess how much documented cases of voter fraud? Four. You heard that right. Four.

President Trump claimed that millions of people voted illegally in that election, offering zero proof. Millions of people. The margin by which he lost the popular vote to Hillary Clinton. Three million, in fact.

Remember this, right? He dissolved the commission that he created to investigate voter fraud because there was no evidence although the president falsely blamed Democrats for failing to cooperate.

The Democrats have been counting on a wave election this fall to give them some power in Washington, but there are signs tonight of a tightening race. And pollsters and analysts say, well, a wave could still happen. It could. It is really far from certain.

The president is rallying his base. And between his bully pulpit, the aftermath of the Kavanaugh fight, it's actually working. The president has never had a hard time getting his message out.

So, the former president, Barack Obama, is trying again to get out the vote, speaking at a rally today in Las Vegas, calling out Republicans for what he says are their tactics of exploiting racial, ethnic, and religious divisions in this country.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: There was all this money being pumped into campaigns by these big billionaire PACs, who are trying to say, you know what? The Democrats, they don't really think like you or look like you or believe the same things you do. And we've seen that playbook before, and so people got cynical. And Republicans in power want you to feel cynical. They want you not to vote.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Two weeks until the midterms. Early voting has started in many states. Check it. A lot to talk about tonight with Chris Cillizza, Ana Navarro, and Bill Burton.

President Trump and Obama making competing campaign appearances, one with a warning about the other party taking away your freedoms, and the other reminding voters who was really responsible for the economic growth, after the break.

[22:15:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Well, the days are flying. We're just 15 days till the midterms. Not one but two presidents out on the trail today. President Obama campaigning for Nevada Democrat Jacky Rosen. A win there for Democrats would boost their chances of controlling the Senate.

And President Trump swooping in to help an old political rival. Lying Ted. Remember he's called him that. Texas Senator Ted Cruz. Now it's, you know, Texas Ted. As always with the two, the contrast could not have been greater.

So, let's discuss. Chris Cillizza, Ana Navarro, and Bill Burton. Well, he went from lying Ted to Texas Ted. Good evening, everybody. Good to see you.

CHRIS CILLIZZA, CNN POLITICS REPORTER AND EDITOR-AT-LARGE: Hi, Don.

LEMON: Ana, so President Obama avoided mentioning Trump by name today, but he did take some shots. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: They tell us that order and security is going to be restored as long as we don't let those people take over. The people who don't look us or sound like us or pray like we do.

They start talking about real Americans as if some of us aren't real Americans. No, no, no. I mean, it's an old playbook. And you see that the closer we get to election day, the more you're seeing folks resort to that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: It sounds like, Ana, a pretty direct attack on Trump's fearmongering and what many see as race baiting.

ANA NAVARRO, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, look, you know, there's been an unspoken agreement of sorts among presidents, in the club of presidents, of not attacking each other. The previous ones not attacking the succeeding ones.

So, what we see is President Obama talking about President Trump like if he was Lord Voldemort in Harry Potter, he whose name shall not be mentioned. But obviously everybody in that audience everybody watching understands who exactly Barack Obama is referring to. I think Obama is right.

It reads like an old playbook because it is an old playbook. But the problem is the old playbook worked in 2016, stoking racial fears, stoking culture wars, making it us against them. It worked in 2016 for Donald Trump.

(CROSSTALK)

[22:20:08] LEMON: You think it will work in 15 days?

NAVARRO: I wouldn't be fired in 2018. You know, I hope not. I hope not. I hope America unifies. I hope America sees past the lies, sees past the fearmongering. I hope that the people who stayed home in 2016 and woke up with a political hangover that's going to last four years don't do the same in 2018. I hope that people understand this is a binary choice and that they've

got to exert the right that democracy gives us to vote if they want to bring about change.

LEMON: So let's bring Bill in. Bill, so just hours after President Obama said those words, I don't want to say attack the current president's divisive tactics. The president said this. This is at his Texas rally tonight. Watch it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: The Democrats would rather destroy American communities than defend America's borders. I'm not going to let it happen. Got to vote for Ted Cruz. Democrats -- the Democrats are a big risk to the American family and our country cannot afford to take those kinds of risks. This will be the election of the caravan, Kavanaugh, law and order, tax cuts, and common sense.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: So, I mean, Bill, he's vilifying Democrats as a big risk to the American family, blaming them for the caravan. Is he playing to the base? And if he does -- I'm sure that's what he's doing, but does that make sense?

BILL BURTON, FORMER DEPUTY SECRETARY FOR PRESIDENT OBAMA: First of all, the man needs some help with his alliteration. I don't think he even knows that Kavanaugh doesn't start with a c. But that aside, yes, this is exactly what he's trying to do.

He's trying to play to people's fears and make this race about what is it that you're most afraid of as opposed to what you saw President Obama do today, which is look at who's on your side in these elections. They're all choices.

And if you look across the country, there's 60 or 70 competitive House races and even right here in California, there's a half dozen races that are within the margin of error. And I think that, you know, Kavanaugh sent a spasm through the election season. But I think that the forces of gravity are pulling folks towards Democrats in the same way that they were before. But if Democrats don't show up, it will be 2016 all over again. It will be 2014, and the results will not be good.

LEMON: I've been saying that all along. So, caravan, Kavanaugh, and cuts, Chris. Tax cuts. The whole tax cuts is a whole other show that we're going to get into because--

(CROSSTALK)

CILLIZZA: Yes, where he's talking about another tax cut.

LEMON: But they're not even in session. Congress is not in session. Yes. So, listen, this is what we're going to hear for -- this is the strategy. He's laying it out there, putting it right in your face. He's being bold. The election of the caravan. We're going to hear that for the next two weeks, for the next 15 days.

CILLIZZA: Yes, no question. Look, this is a base strategy. Midterm elections tend to be base wars because you see voter participation drop. Voter participation not all that high in presidential elections dropped significantly in midterms. Bill is right.

Look, if Democrats believe they have it in the bag here and Donald Trump is able to rally the Republican base around two things really, I think, at the end of the day. Look at what they did to Brett Kavanaugh. There's a war on men, OK? Donald Trump used that kind of language. And this idea that there is a pillaging hoard on the way to the United States, which is what he talks about.

This is not dissimilar to even before this latest caravan. If you go back, Don, a month, let's say, and listen to a campaign speech Donald Trump gives, he essentially says -- actually, I'm going to paraphrase though, I probably could quote directly.

He says they, Democrats, are for open borders. They want violent gangs to roam your streets. Look, fear, you were talking about this with Cuomo. Fear is a hugely powerful motivator. Donald Trump cast a dark vision of America in 2016, and essentially said elect me, or this is going to happen.

He's doing that again. Don't underestimate it working as it relates to turning out base Republicans.

LEMON: Yes.

CILLIZZA: I still think women, particularly women in the suburbs, and Bill knows this from his time he's been on Democratic committee. Those voters are the biggest problem for Donald Trump and Republicans, and there are a whole lot in California and everywhere else. A lot of House districts Republicans hold, there's a lot of suburban women.

LEMON: Yes.

CILLIZZA: And I don't think these tactics work there.

LEMON: OK. Well, let's see. I want to play one more. This is--

(CROSSTALK)

NAVARRO: And listen, don't forget--

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: Hang on, Ana.

NAVARRO: And also, don't forget--

LEMON: I'm going to let you respond to this. I want to play this really quick. Please, please, please.

President Obama taking another jab at Trump and the Republicans. Take a listen. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[22:24:57] OBAMA: When there's a vacuum in our democracy, when we don't vote, when we take our rights for granted, when we turn the other way to politics because we think it's ugly and messy, and we don't want to hear it, that's when the voices fill in the void, other voices.

And demagogues start promising simple fixes to complicated problems. And they promise to fight for the little guy, and then they turn around and are helping corporations and billionaires and the most powerful do their bidding.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Democrats really need the turnout and I'm wondering if that appeal is going to translate to votes. but go on, Ana. Sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off. I wanted to get that in.

NAVARRO: I don't know if it's going to translate to votes. Look, I think you're going to see a Kavanaugh bump on both sides. But I think that what Obama is alluding to and what he is afraid of in 2018 is what happened in so many places in 2016 where maybe there were Democrats who were disillusioned with the candidate who did not see it as a choice between Trump and Hillary, who relied on polls that were inaccurate, and who stayed home or who basically threw away their votes voting for a Jill Stein or a Gary Johnson and then regretted and have had remorse ever since. I think he's trying to remind them of that.

But, listen, going back to the caravan thing, in addition to being a tool to stoke the flames and to energize the Republican base, to bring about fear and fearmongering, it is also a very good tool to distract and delay from the Khashoggi events, which are getting pressure and where I think Donald Trump is feeling pressure even from some Republicans.

The Republicans, you know, the ones that are left that have not donated their spine to science are standing up to Trump and this administration and demanding action against the Saudis and reminding people that America stands for value and what America stands for and means around the world. It's not just about an arms deal.

And I think that Donald Trump is going to do everything he can from calling Stormy Daniels horse face and getting into a fight with Elizabeth Warren on quote, unquote, "Pocahontas," to throw out all the fear he can around this caravan so that we stop talking about Jamal Khashoggi, which we cannot stop doing.

LEMON: Yes. That's an important story. Voter suppression as well. Which we'll talk about tonight. Stick around, everyone. I'm going to -- I need to talk to you guys more.

The president now campaigning for the man he once called lying Ted. How Senator Cruz went from lying to beautiful in the president's eyes.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[22:30:01] LEMON: What a difference two years make, the President tonight stumping for his former rival, Texas Senator Ted Cruz. Back with me now, Chris Cillizza, Ana Navarro, and Bill Burton. So Bill, listen to -- this is what the President said about Ted Cruz on his way to Texas.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PRES. DONALD TRUMP (R), UNITED STATES PRESIDENT: He's no longer Lying Ted. He's not Lying Ted anymore. He's Beautiful Ted, Beautiful Ted. I call him Texas Ted. But Ted Cruz and I had a very, very nasty and tough campaign. It was a very competitive and a very tough campaign. Once it ended, we got together. And by the way, very late into the campaign -- people were shocked. I said don't worry.

It's only a question of time. And then ultimately what happened? We fought it out. The outcome was obvious. And we have worked together very closely. I like hmm a lot. I actually like him a lot.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: So, Bill, he went from -- Cruz went from Lying Ted to Beautiful Ted. What happened? What changed?

BURTON: Well, the political expediency here is crystal clear. You know, the -- people get caught up in the fact that President Trump insulted Ted Cruz's wife, implicated his father in the assassination of JFK, both awful, weird, terrible things. But the bottom line is President Trump is a terrible President.

And the fact that Ted Cruz is bringing him into Texas to campaign for him, it's just politics, Ted's values don't matter to him in bringing this President to campaign for him. I mean even at this rally, the one thing that's not getting enough attention is that President Trump got there, up there onstage and uses an applause line which he just riffed on. I am a nationalist.

What are you trying to say as President of the United States, that you're a nationalist? Americans know what that means. It's not even a dog whistle anymore. It's a bullhorn. He's using it to try to get Ted Cruz elected, because Ted Cruz is in a fight for his life against a candidate who's making a better case for being a stronger leader and more on your side then Ted Cruz has.

LEMON: I am a nationalist, Chris. I saw your eyes. What were you thinking in that moment? I missed that. I have to be honest. I missed that part of it.

CILLIZZA: He said people -- Bill is right. He actually -- he did the classic Donald Trump. Some people say I shouldn't say this, but I am going to say it anyway. Yeah, no, he said I am a nationalist. He sought to draw it in contrast to being a globalist. You know, I just think at this point we are past the marker where you can say, well, he's just saying that. He doesn't know what it means, because, you know, some of the language

he used as it related to the NFL players, some of the language he used as it related to Charlottesville, you know, he's weaponized race and nationalism and dog whistles. It's hard for me at this point to look at it and say, oh...

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: That he's going to call himself like -- oh, yes, I am biased, I am bigoted, it's like...

CILLIZZA: Yeah, well, I mean -- I -- look, there's a reason.

LEMON: Does he even need to say it?

CILLIZZA: There's a reason that we are 15 days from the election, and Donald Trump is up there saying things like I am a nationalist, and I embrace that. He is not -- people like to say he's dumb. I do not think he is dumb. I think he is less strategic than many people give him credit for. I think he largely just sort of acts. But I do not think he is dumb.

And he is not someone unaware of what words he uses means. I just don't think we can -- again, given the scope of what we know about him, campaign Trump and President Trump. I just don't think any logical person can draw that conclusion, which means he's doing this kind of stuff on purpose.

LEMON: And that's very different, Ana, than -- what did Lindsey Graham say, Tuesday Trump and Thursday Trump. But listen. I mean saying I am a nationalist, the President saying that, again, where are we on the spectrum of what he's going to say that gets him to the R word where he just sort of admits it?

NAVARRO: You think he needs to say it?

LEMON: No, I don't. And I have already said it. You know how I feel about it.

[22:35:10] NAVARRO: If at this point you need to hear from Donald Trump that he is a racist, I don't know what rock you have been hiding under for the last two years. If him coming down those escalators and calling Mexicans rapists and criminals wasn't enough for you, if him attacking Khizr Khan wasn't enough for you, if him calling African- American athletes sons of bitches wasn't enough for you, if him equating neo-Nazis with those that protest against him wasn't enough for you, I don't know what else you need to hear.

LEMON: Thank you, all. I appreciate it. New comments tonight from President Trump about the murder of Jamal Khashoggi, questioning whether the Saudis used a bone saw while seemingly accepting their denials of involvement. Is it a new low? Well, we've thought that before. We're going to take a look at that next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [22:40:12] LEMON: We have seen time and time again that President Trump is willing to say and do just about anything, whatever it takes to win, that personal integrity isn't exactly a priority. Principles are a matter of perspective. But in the wake of the murder and the reported dismemberment of journalist Jamal Khashoggi, is there no bottom, no level the President won't sink to in order to get his way?

Right after Saudi Arabia's foreign minister announced that Khashoggi's killing was a terrible mistake, a rogue operation that went wrong, and that Jamal Khashoggi died in a fistfight inside the consulate, the President said this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you consider it credible, their explanation for it?

TRUMP: I do. I do. I mean it's -- again, it's early. We haven't finished our review or investigation, but it's -- I think it's a very important first step. And it happened sooner than people thought it would happen.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As a result of the fistfight, Mr. Khashoggi was killed.

TRUMP: Well, I don't know that that's a -- I mean that's a theory that's being thrown out. I don't think anybody said that, but they're saying there was a fight, but that's a theory that was put out. But they're going to be giving us a full report. But they have arrested a large number of people, and a good first step.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Incredulous reaction around the world to the Saudi explanation. The President said this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I am not satisfied with what I have heard. And I don't want to lose all of that investment that's being made in our country. I don't want to lose a million jobs. I don't want to lose $110 billion in terms of investment. But it's really $450 billion if you include other than military. So that's very important. But we're going to get to the bottom of it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Never mind that those numbers are bogus. It's not $110 billion. Only $14 billion of contracts have been consummated. And the President himself said in March that it was 40,000 potential jobs, not 1 million. What this statement says, for all the world to hear, is that for this President, the money comes first, the murder investigation second.

And again tonight, in an interview with USA Today, the President calls the killing a plot gone awry and not worth stopping arms sales over. But really should we be surprised? Remember Charlottesville when Nazi-sympathizing protesters shouted anti-semitic slogans.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jews will not replace us. Jews will not replace us.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Here's what the President said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: You also had people that were very fine people on both sides. You had people in that group -- excuse me. Excuse me. I saw the same pictures as you did.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: And who thought America could be more embarrassed on the world stage than this moment? This is the moment, when the President standing side by side with Vladimir Putin at a joint press conference in Helsinki, was asked if he confronted Putin about interfering in the 2016 election.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: All I can do is ask the question. My people came to me. Dan Coats came to me and some others. They said they think its Russia. I have President Putin. He just said it's not Russia. I will say this. I don't see any reason why it would be.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: And will anyone forget the maligning of American war hero, the late John McCain early in the campaign, and then even as he battled terminal brain cancer.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: He's not a war hero.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's a war hero.

(CROSSTALK)

TRUMP: He's a war hero because he was captured. I like people that weren't captured, OK? You mean Senator McCain who voted against us getting good healthcare? We were going in for a routine repeal and replace, and he went thumbs down. Not nice.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Or the repeated denigration of women.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: And when you're a star, they let you do it. You can do anything.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Whatever you want.

TRUMP: Grab them by the pussy. You can do anything. I don't believe that Hillary has the stamina. She gets out and she starts asking me all sorts of ridiculous questions. And you know, you could see there was blood coming out of her eyes, blood coming out of her wherever.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In an interview last week in Rolling Stone Magazine, Donald Trump said the following about you. Quote, look at that face. Would anyone vote for that? Can you imagine that, the face of our next President? Mr. Trump later said he was talking about your persona, not your appearance.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think women all over this country heard very clearly what Mr. Trump said.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[22:45:02] LEMON: A sad litany of indifference, cruelty, and malice. The bar has been lowered repeatedly over the last two years. How low is it now after we've all seen the President's reaction to the murder of Khashoggi? Everyone understands the reality of having to deal with dictators all over the world, that exerting influence means talking to people we don't like.

But is that the message the U.S. is sending with this picture? Here it is, Secretary of State Pompeo smiling as he meets with the Crown Prince. Even today, the Treasury Secretary Mnuchin met with Mohammed bin Salman. No smile this time, but still giving the Saudis a nice photo to use as PR. Americans believe the United States is exceptional, that we are a beacon to the world, a shining city on a hill, a great hope for democracy and freedom.

Those are ideals that cannot be traded for arms. Is there a bottom? If so, we apparently haven't found it yet. That's my take. James Clapper is here. I am going to talk to him next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[22:50:00] LEMON: A plot gone awry. That's how President Trump is describing the brutal murder of Washington Post columnist, Jamal Khashoggi. He's also questioning Turkish officials who say Khashoggi's body was cut up with a bone saw. That's all coming from the President's new interview with USA Today. James Clapper is here. He joins me now. And he is the former Director of National Intelligence.

Good evening, sir. I am so glad to have you on. You heard my take. I want to get yours now. Have we reached a new low with this handling of the murder of Jamal Khashoggi?

JAMES CLAPPER, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, I think so, Don. Although, after watching your take and being reminded, unfortunately of -- there's a long litany of this and, you know, how low can we go. Well, we probably haven't reached the low point. I think what the Saudis did was absolutely despicable. And they compounded it by all these meandering inconsistent stories.

This is a PR disaster for them. And our behavior is all over the map. Having just returned from a month in Australia, and I know people there almost uniformly found what the Saudis did as terrible and extremely disappointed in our lack of moral strength that they had normally come to expect of us.

LEMON: Yeah. So I just -- I want to play this. This is a CNN exclusive, OK? CNN's obtained, Director, the surveillance footage showing a Saudi body-double wearing the clothes of journalist Jamal Khashoggi's. The clothes after he was killed, right? President Trump tonight is still questioning aspects of the case like the bone saw, insisting the Saudis have denied knowledge of the crime to him. Is he getting played here?

CLAPPER: Well, somebody's trying to play us. I mean I think your exclusive, which I watched a couple times during the day today...

LEMON: With Jared Kushner?

CLAPPER: No. I am talking about this body-double thing, which is just very amateurish tradecraft, particularly when it came to the shoes and this sort of thing. And the other thing that's just amazing about this to me is the Saudis would think that they could do this without being observed in the absence of surveillance cameras, which are all over Turkey. And they would think that nobody would notice. It's just incredible.

LEMON: Yeah. Well, there was another exclusive, too. Because President Trump's senior adviser, who happens to be his son-in-law, in a rare interview here on CNN, CNN's citizen political forum, he said this about the investigation. Here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JARED KUSHNER, SENIOR ADVISER TO PRESIDENT TRUMP: We're getting facts in from multiple places. And then once those facts come in, the Secretary of State will work with our national security team to help us determine what we want to believe and what we think is credible, and what we think is not credible.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: So as I mentioned, Director, President Trump said he believes that Khashoggi's death was a plot gone awry. Does it seem that they have their eyes wide open? What's going on?

CLAPPER: Well, I think -- my characterization, Don, is this is illustrative of the very elastic evidentiary threshold that this administration and this President exhibit. Sometimes on flimsy or no evidence whatsoever, we'll get these bald assertions which are false. Yet, in other cases, we seem to require very high evidentiary bar, and we have to have all kinds of investigations, all kinds of fact-finding before we'll reach a conclusion, where I think frankly it's pretty obvious here what happened. And I don't know why we're dawdling on this, other than we just don't

want to condemn -- this administration just doesn't want to condemn the Saudis.

LEMON: Yeah. So remember last week the smiling shot, right, of Secretary of State. And now, I am wondering what message does it send when the Secretary of State, Steve Mnuchin -- Secretary of Treasury, excuse me, Steve Mnuchin, meets with the Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman and allows this photo-op. There was no smiling here, but what do you think -- what's the message?

CLAPPER: Well, I think the message, which is very regrettable, is its kind of business as usual. We're going to continue to conduct business with the Saudis, specifically Mohammed bin Salman, who for my money has got blood on his hands here. There's no way this could have gone down without his direction, and certainly not his knowledge.

[22:55:09] LEMON: You met him a couple of times. What's your read on him?

CLAPPER: Well, you know, I kind of changed my opinion from the first time I met him, right after he became minister of defense. And then I met him again here in the states late in my time as DNI. And, you know, I thought he had a vision for reform. But I also think that his arrogance and this is a classic case of absolute power corrupting absolutely.

And he thinks he could get away with anything. And he's a very young, headstrong man. And it doesn't seem as though there are any constraints on him, certainly not from his father, who's old and failing, or the rest of the royals. He seems to have intimidated all of them. So it's a bad situation.

LEMON: Director Clapper, always appreciate it. Thank you, sir.

CLAPPER: Thanks, Don.

LEMON: The President's son-in-law calling him a black swan and saying that he wouldn't bet against him. But will President Trump's campaign tactics of fear and lies work when he's not on the ballot?