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Don Lemon Tonight

Trump Calling Himself Nationalist; Pipe Bomb Found at George Soros' Home; Voter Suppression Allegations and Non-existent Voter Fraud; President Trump Lies and Stokes Fears Ahead of Midterms; Trump's Presence Looms Large Over Race for Florida Governor. Aired 11- 12a ET

Aired October 22, 2018 - 23:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:00:00] DON LEMON, CNN HOST: This is CNN TONIGHT. I'm Don Lemon. The president back on the campaign trail tonight and he casually made a surprisingly candid admission.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: A globalist is a person that wants the globe to do well, frankly not caring about our country so much. And you know what? We can't have that. You know, they have a word. It sort of became old-fashioned. It's called a nationalist. And I say really, we're not supposed to use that word. You know what I am? I'm a nationalist, OK? I'm a nationalist.

(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)

Nationalist, let them use that word.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Sorry. Wow. I'm a nationalist -- nationalist, use that word. We're going to talk about that word tonight. It is a favorite of the alt-right and is loaded with nativist and racial undertones. And globalist, well, globalist has been used as a slur of sorts sometimes even against those in the administration, often with anti-Semitic overtones, which just happened to make the president come right out and embrace nationalism. Openly, and claim that mantle.

What has happened here? He did it while stumping for someone he once called the single biggest liar, someone who Trump once implied was not sufficiently American due to his foreign birth. But politics makes strange bedfellows.

Trump has upgraded his nickname for Texas Senator Ted Cruz from lying Ted to beautiful Ted. Just one of many stump speeches the president is making for the midterms about which he seems confident.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I think the Republicans are going to do very nicely. We're doing very well with the Senate. (END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: But when the president's son-in-law and senior adviser was asked about Republicans' chances, he was a bit more guarded.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JARED KUSHNER, TRUMP SENIOR ADVISER: I don't know. I mean, I see mixed data. The data that we look at shows it's all about the turnout, models. So I think people who have different turnout models will show different things, but one thing I have learned is I wouldn't bet against Trump. He's a black swan. He's been a black swan all of his life.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: So a black swan, a statistical anomaly defined as an occurrence or phenomenon that comes as a surprise because it was not predicted or was hard to predict. Certainly no one could have predicted this president. So let's bring in now Mr. Frank Bruni, also Ms. Susan Glasser and Mr. Michael D'Antonio, author of "The Truth About Trump."

OK everyone, if you can -- you should have seen Frank's reaction when he heard the president say "I'm a nationalist." Frank, the president laying this out, admitting that he is a nationalist, asking us to call him that. What are the implications of that?

FRANK BRUNI, CNN CONTRIBUTIOR: Well, I mean, the question is that a dog whistle? He's a sloppy speaker so when he says nationalist, is he thinking of all those connotations you just mentioned or is he speaking sloppily? I mean, he's saying things that aren't true as well. He's saying globalist means you care more about the globe than the country. No, President Trump.

A globalist means you understand that our fate is entwined with the fates of other countries and that in fact, you know, a rising tide lifts all boats. That's what globalist means to someone who's being serious about it. He is just trying -- he's trying to do the America first thing and he's trying to lend a new vocabulary to it. Now he's brought in nationalist and maybe it's a dog whistle to racists and such. Maybe he's just speaking sloppily.

LEMON: Well, he says maybe I shouldn't say this or, you know, something to that effect. I think he says -- he said I shouldn't say it.

BRUNI: Right.

LEMON: So he clearly knows that it has a negative connotation. Does he know what nationalist -- does he know what that means?

BRUNI: Well, he knows it's politically incorrect and a big part of his political brand is saying I will go to places other people won't. They won't speak their mind. They stick to this very pre-approved vocabulary. You know, I'm looser than that. I'm more real than that, and I think that's part of what he was saying when he said, you know, I'm going to say it anyway.

LEMON: Susan, similar question. Does he know what it is and then about the use of the word globalist and so on? Does he know the implications especially this nationalist word?

SUSAN GLASSER, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Well, that's right. First of all I was also struck as Frank was with his effort to define globalism as someone who wants the globe to do well. First of all, like we are part of the globe, you know, so it's a little bit contradictory there in the sense that presumably if the globe does well we all do well.

[22:35:03] But I think, you know, Trump often speaks in ways that make you feel like perhaps he didn't -- as if the 20th century never happened or there were no lessons to have been learned from it. And there's nothing more resonant of that than using this term globalist.

But I also want to make the point about Jared Kushner and this whole black swan comment, which is getting a lot of attention which goes to the question of what is Trump. Jared Kushner doesn't seem to get that actually a black swan is a very negative event. Effectively he's basically insulting his father-in-law.

BRUNI: Maybe he does.

GLASSER: Right. You know, black swan events are market crashes that come out of the blue, pandemic illnesses that might destroy and disrupt an entire economy. I'm really struck by that it might not mean what he thinks it means in the same way that I don't think globalist means what Trump thinks it means.

LEMON: Michael, what do you think about this about the nationalism and the second the president's son-in-law Susan just said, saying that he's a black swan?

MICHAEL D'ANTONIO, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, I think the president more than a black swan has always been a kind of depraved presence on the American landscape. This is a man who's always been a liar. He's always been a cheat. He's always been a racist. And he's always been someone who foments fear.

So what he's doing now is just a rerun of what he's always done. If that means that he's a black swan, well, the ways in which he's a black swan are very negative and very destructive. So sure, I'll buy Jared's definition of it, but I think the American people should understand exactly who he is. And he is also this man who is trying to turn asylum seekers marching toward the United States into a zombie apocalypse and making people into the enemy.

And this idea of globalism being bad, well, I think those of us who want for there to be a planet for us to inhabit 50 or 100 years from now, maybe we all have a stake in this globe and should pay attention to it.

LEMON: Texas Senator Ted Cruz went on Fox tonight, and I just want you to listen to what he said when he was asked about facing protesters.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. TED CRUZ (R), TEXAS: There is an ugliness that's really scary and I'm concerned it's going to descend into violence. That the rhetoric they're using is right on the edge of violence. And that that's the next step. The problem is the left right now, they're so filled with rage that facts don't matter. They just want to burn it all down. And that's not good for our country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Frank, given everything the president said in the 2016 election to right now, couldn't this concern also apply to folks on the right?

BRUNI: It is amazing, amazing that the president has done this too, talked about how violent the left is going to be, how the Democratic Party is, you know, harboring and rewarding and encouraging violence. This is the same president who would say things like punch him in the face to the people at his rallies, who said I'll pay your legal fees if you beat someone up.

I just think this is the height of hypocrisy. It's incredibly irresponsible, but this is the playbook that the Republican Party with President Trump's encouragement is using in the final weeks. They are saying that we have to fear some sort of mob takeover by violent Democrats of America if Republicans are ousted from power.

They are saying that, you know, the masses are coming to the southern border and are going to invade us and there are middle easterners in their midst. I mean, it really is a deep into the gutter, bottom of the barrel playbook that is meant to kind of drive Republicans to the polls with fear, pure fear.

LEMON: Susan, the president has been bashing the press at every single rally now, every chance he gets. CNN's Jim Acosta has been reporting from these rallies. Well, today he spoke at the citizen CNN conference right here in New York City. I just want everyone to hear Jim describe what happened to him at a rally in Montana. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JIM ACOSTA, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: I remember looking over to the supporters in the crowd, and there was one guy, one young man, who was doing these body slam moves, you know. And he and his buddies were all getting a laugh out of it. And then looked at me and he goes like this, like I'm going to cut your throat.

And you know, just -- I went up to him after it was over and I talked to him about it. And he was just sort of laughing about it. I guess he wasn't serious about it. But to me that's the Trump effect on America. It has normalized and sanitized nastiness and cruelty.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Do you agree with Jim, Susan? Is this the Trump effect? And could it get worse?

GLASSER: Well, yes and yes in a short answer. I recently watched six straight Trump rallies from the beginning of October and what I was struck by was that the press bashing and the attacks on the independent media are not just a sort of, you know, quirky throw away line. They generally come within minutes of the beginning of the Trump rally.

[22:39:58] They are integral to the message that he is offering people whereas something like the Republican tax cut, which is what at one point leaders on Capitol Hill wanted to be the foundation of their midterm message, is generally clocking in somewhere around 51 minutes into the rally, whereas the press bashing, the attack on independent media is something that is literally the foundation of the president of the United States' appeal.

He taunted and praised a Republican candidate the other day, as you know, who attacked a reporter in the midst of basically walking away from America's traditional role at least to pretend to be a beacon of human rights and freedom of speech when faced with the Saudi apparent gruesome murder of a journalist, a columnist for the "Washington Post."

And, you know, do you really think that the Saudis aren't paying attention to this rhetoric when the president of the United States calls journalists the enemies of the people? Of course they are. And you know, I think what worries me is listening to Jim Acosta's account of what this is like, is that we have said over and over again, well, they're just words, it's campaign season rhetoric, it's hyperbole.

And because Trump has operated as president with a level of lying and attacks on the press that's so unprecedented, now to dial it up, he's taking us to really much more unprecedented, you know, call it depths or heights, whatever you prefer.

LEMON: Yes. Michael, I want you to weigh in on that as someone who's been a biographer to this man.

D'ANTONIO: Well, I think one of the things that we forget when hearing Ted Cruz say something as ridiculous and irrational as he said about the so-called violent left is that there has been a killing in Kansas in Donald Trump's name. There was a killing in Charlottesville. There have been assaults all over this country carried out by people shouting the president's name.

This is here now. We have the right being inflamed by the president and the idea that some person on the left who's not president of the United States, holds no office, has some violent rhetoric is somehow equivalent to the president of the United States. Inciting people to violence is absolutely absurd and it' destructive.

I really can't emphasize more strongly or strongly enough that this is a man in Donald Trump who has always trafficked in this kind of heated rhetoric, who's always played with people's emotions, has always gone further than anyone else to exploit the anger that might exist below the surface and then bring it out in order to energize some force on his behalf.

So, he is a singularly malevolent person, and what we see going now into the election is an attempt to sell people on fear and not on any policy that the president has enacted.

LEMON: Frank, on Sunday the Fox News host Tucker Carlson said that no one has heard of Jamal Khashoggi and that "the whole game is people who have no basis for moral superiority sort of impose their moral superiority on you. The outrage is so false."

So here's what "The Washington Posts" Glenn Kessler pointed out on twitter, that Khashoggi was interviewed on CNN, on Fox, on NPR, and that there were dozens of references to him in the "New York Times" and the "Washington Post." So people have heard of Khashoggi and the outrage isn't false. It's real, Frank.

BRUNI: I don't even know where to begin with that. I don't know how you look at this pattern of events, you look at what the Saudis did, you look at what happened to this American journalist and you say that there's no reason for outrage here, that the outrage is false.

My outrage is not false. I don't think your outrage is false. I don't think Susan's is. I don't think Michael's is. It's genuine and it's about something that happened, something that was done by an ally of this country and something that the president of this country keeps trying to excuse or find his favorite lie to move beyond. My outrage about that is genuine, Tucker Carlson.

LEMON: Thank you all. I appreciate it. We cut it a little short because I have some breaking news that I need to get to right now. It's about billionaire philanthropist George Soros, a big supporter of the Democrats and liberal causes. Joining me now on the phone is Shimon Prokupecz. He's a CNN crime and justice reporter. Shimon, what's happened tonight at George Soros' home?

SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN CRIME & JUSTICE REPORTER (via telephone): Right, Don. So the police at George Soros' home in Bedford, New York say that they are investigating what turned out to be a pipe bomb, a suspicious package which was found in the mailbox of his home in Bedford, New York.

An employee, according to the police there, found this suspicious device. It was in a mailbox. The police went to the home. They removed the device and the ATF and the FBI responded to the location.

[22:45:02] They discovered that it was actually a real device, a pipe bomb that could have exploded had someone opened it, had someone perhaps removed it. And most important here, Don, and what I'm being told by sources is that this package was targeting, it was meant for George Soros. They believe that this -- whatever was in here, this pipe bomb was targeting George Soros.

Obviously a lot of concern given his political work, his contributions, his philanthropic work, a lot of the money he's donated to political causes. And now the FBI -- the FBI is leading this investigation, the joint terrorism task force because there is concern here obviously that George Soros is being targeted for political reasons and so now the FBI has taken the lead on this investigation.

Luckily, no one was hurt in this incident. The FBI and the ATF were able to safely remove the pipe bomb. It's now in the custody of the FBI and obviously the investigation is ongoing. They don't yet know who sent this or where it came from, but obviously a lot of (inaudible) there in Bedford.

The FBI just a short time ago tweeted, saying they're investigating something at the location, that they are investigating an incident at the Bedford, New York home but they say that there is no danger, people are not in danger and that everything is safe, so that people should not be concerned there that something else may happen.

LEMON: Shimon Prokupecz with our breaking news. Shimon, thank you very much. Let me just bring Frank in. This is -- we were just talking about this. This is the right targeting the left here.

BRUNI: One hundred percent. We just listened to Ted Cruz talk about the violent left. This was the violent right. If you follow what's being said on the right, if you wade into the fever swamps of twitter you would find that all of these conspiracy theories about George Soros maybe funding the migrant caravan.

There's all this anti-Semitic stuff about his influence on the Democratic Party and a whole bunch of what's going on. It is vile, it is coming from the right, and this act of would-be violence is coming from the right.

LEMON: We're not exactly sure who's behind it, but the assumption would be that.

BRUNI: Yes, OK. I'm sorry. I'm speaking a little bit rashly. My point is the anti-Soros animus is not on the left. It's on the right.

LEMON: Thank you. I appreciate that. Up next, the biggest threat to democracy, voter fraud or voter suppression?

[22:50:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: So I've got a question for you. What is the bigger threat to our democracy in the midterm elections? Is it voter fraud or is it voter suppression? So President Trump would have you believe falsely that it is voter fraud, while the courts are looking at voter suppression. There's a federal hearing tomorrow in Georgia over rejected absentee ballots. Rejected because they fail to meet the state exact match standard that says a person's information needs to match other public records. Just one letter or character off is enough.

But activists say the rejections disproportionately affect minority voters. The exact match standard affects around 53,000 people statewide in Georgia, and nearly 70 percent of them are African- Americans. But these sorts of laws restricting voting can be found throughout the country.

According to the Brennan Institute for -- the Brennan Center, I should say, for Justice at NYU, since the 2016 election, nine states with Republican state legislatures have passed laws restricting access to voting. Republicans say these laws prevent voter fraud except there's not much to prevent since voter fraud is extremely rare. But I bet you wouldn't think that's the case if you heard what the president had to say tonight.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: They want to be able to vote, the illegals. Hey, by the way, I hate to tell you, you go to California, they vote anyway -- they vote anyway. And they're not supposed to. And every time I say it the fake news says oh, they -- they got so many people voting illegally in this country. It's a disgrace, OK. It's a disgrace.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: It's not true. Like I said, voter fraud is extremely rare. The president is wrong. According to the "Washington Post" among the hundreds of millions of votes cast in 2016 there were only four recorded instances of fraud.

Here to talk about the real issues that voters face, Carol Anderson, is the author of "One Person, No Vote" and Michael Higginbotham is the author of "Ghosts of Jim Crow: Ending Racism in Post-Racial America." We have to remember -- good evening -- the president disbanded (ph) his own voter fraud commission because they didn't find any evidence. So, good evening everyone. Carol, let's take a step back. What is voter suppression? Who is doing it and why?

CAROL ANDERSON, PROFESSOR, AFRICAN AMERICAN STUDIES, EMORY UNIVERSITY: Voter suppression is targeting key groups to ensure that they have multiple obstacles to go through in order to be able to vote. It's being done overwhelmingly by the Republicans, and it's being done because as the Republican Party has moved further and further to the right and as America has become increasingly diverse the Republicans' policies don't match up.

They don't resonate with the growing electorate in the United States. So the only way that they believe that they can have a chance is not by reforming their policies but by in fact suppressing the votes of African-Americans, Latinos, Native Americans, Asian-Americans, the young and the poor.

LEMON: Yes. Growing diverse electorate, right? You said the growing electorate. But it's a growing diverse electorate.

ANDERSON: Right.

LEMON: So Michael, in Georgia, 70 percent of the registrations put on hold were african-Americans. Do most of these laws target minorities?

MICHAEL HIGGINBOTHAM, PROFESSOR OF CONSTITUTIONAL LAW, UNIVERSITY OF BALTIMORE: They do and it's very unfortunate. Once again, the Republicans seem to be more concerned with voter suppression than voter persuasion. And I say once again because this is a pattern. This is nothing but a rerun. [22:54:58] We saw it in 2013 after the Supreme Court in the Shelby

County versus Holder decision got into voting rights act and a lot of state Republican-controlled legislatures passed their restrictive voter I.D. laws. And if you look at this exact matching that's going on in Georgia, it has the same racially restrictive disproportionate impact as the voter I.D. laws did.

So, as you mentioned, you've got 53,000 people subject to the hold and 70 percent are African-Americans. So this is nothing but a rerun. Everybody knows why this is being done. It's to suppress the African- American vote.

LEMON: But it's just like if you're just one letter, one character, if you're off. Listen, I've had this issue not with voting but I remember being on a plane once and they came, my initials are D.R. Lemon, right? DRL. And someone said hey, there's a passenger who's feeling sick in the back, can you come? And I said why? And they said you're a doctor, right? I said no, the DR is not for doctor, it's just the first two initials of my name.

So Carol, listen, and so you can understand how people -- people do make clerical errors when they're putting in information all the time. Does that mean you need to be purged from a voter roll? In my estimation I don't think you need to. But this president is known for his wildly false claims about voter fraud.

Here's what he tweeted over weekend saying, "All levels of government and law enforcement are watching carefully for voter fraud including during early voting. Cheat at your own peril. Violators will be subject to maximum penalties, both civil and criminal."

Again, it's really rare. He talked about it tonight in Texas tweeting over the weekend. Why is this president perpetuating the myth of widespread voter fraud? Remember all the legal people voted the same number that he lost the popular vote by, right?

ANDERSON: Right. And so what we're seeing here, though, is that what he is running on and frankly what the Republicans have been running on is the politics of fear and the politics of resentment. And so that is why he is using that really pejorative term, the illegals. As if people are illegal, human beings are illegal.

That the illegals are coming in, so you're getting this horde of illegals coming in to vote and to steal our elections. It's the same language that was used frankly in St. Louis to talk about black people stealing the election in 2000 when that didn't happen. It was the language that Trump used to talk about Philadelphia stealing, trying to steal the election in 2016. So it is to link blackness or brownness with criminality, with stealing the election from good, honest, hard- working coated white Americans.

It is a fear tactic and it is a fear tactic that is not based on any evidence. When the voter suppressors themselves go to try to prove that there's voter suppression, they can't pull up of this rampant massive body of work that this is happening. LEMON: Michael, listen, I just want to get this point in and if you

have a really quick response if you will, because there's a study in the "Washington Post" that found minority participation in the elections is lower in places that restrict voter I.D.s -- voter I.D. laws where it's implemented. That's the point, correct?

HIGGINBOTHAM: That's exactly the point. It's a disproportionate impact. It's just like Jim Crow days when you had literacy tests, poll taxes, grandfather clauses. The same impact. The same result.

LEMON: But here's the point. Even if you're there and you're somehow purged from the rolls, vote anyways, right? And then take care of it later. Figure it out later. Thank you both. I appreciate your time.

ANDERSON: Thank you so much.

LEMON: The president using a migrant caravan heading towards the U.S. to rile up his base, scaring people with exaggerations and all outright lies. Well, we're going to tell you the truth about what happened, what's happening, 1,100 miles -- 1,100 miles south of the border, right after this.

[23:00:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: The midterms are just 15 days away, and President Trump is turning to what he thinks is a winning strategy. He is trying to make voters afraid of minorities, specifically brown people.

I'm talking about the estimated 7,000 migrants making their way north to the U.S.-Mexico border. Here's the problem. Trump is lying over and over again. He says the migrant caravan is full of criminals and Middle Easterners.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Take your camera, go into the middle and search. You're going to find MS-13, you're going to find Middle Easternern, you're going to find everything. And guess what? We're not allowing them in our country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Just remember, so we're all about the facts here, CNN reporters do have cameras in the middle of the caravan and they say the president's claim is completely unfounded. The press secretary, Sarah Sanders, also claims there's credible evidence of Middle Easterners in the caravan, but of course doesn't offer any specifics.

Well, our Jessica Schneider spoke to a senior counter-terrorism official who says, "while we acknowledge there are vulnerabilities at both our northern and southern border, we do not see any evidence that ISIS or other Sunni terrorist groups are trying to infiltrate the southern U.S. border."

CNN also spoke to the Homeland Security secretary, Homeland Security Department, and of course, they don't have evidence to back up Trump's claim either. The president is stoking fear by making it -- making it out like this caravan is an immediate threat.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I will seal off the border before they come into this country, and I'll bring out our military, not our reserves. I'll bring out our military.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: But the Pentagon says the military has not been asked to provide support as the caravan heads toward the southern border. And the migrants aren't close to the U.S. They aren't as close as the president is suggesting.

[23:34:57] Tonight, they're making their full -- making their way to the town of Huixtla, which is roughly 1,100 miles from the U.S. border. It's very hot, the conditions there. They're rough. The migrants are traveling by foot. The journey could take weeks. If they make it at all. The president also loves to say that the Democrats are to blame for the caravan.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I have never seen the spirit like we have now, whether it's Kavanaugh, whether it's tax cuts that we gave, whether it's common sense -- I've never seen it. But I'll tell you -- I'll tell you a big factor is what's happening on the border. What's happening on the border was caused by the Democrats because they won't let anybody change immigration laws that are horrible.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: OK, so, it's the Democrats' fault. Facts again. The Republicans control the House and Senate. Trump is in the White House. So, how are the Democrats to blame? This year, both chambers tried to pass Trump-backed immigration bills.

Both failed. Not because of Democrats but because large numbers of Republicans oppose the bills. The thing is the president's lies and race baiting on immigration are nothing new. Remember when he launched his presidential bid?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: When Mexico sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're not sending you. They're not sending you. They're sending people that have lots of problems. And they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing drugs. They're bringing crime. They're rapists.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: So you can see his strategy really hasn't changed at all. He wants you to believe that all immigrants and minorities are inherently dangerous. He tries to scare and you then says he'll protect you. The lies and fearmongering worked in 2016. The question is, will it work in 2018? Well, we have some folks to talk about it. Keith Boykin, Margaret Hoover, and Scott Jennings. They're going to answer that for me, next.

[23:40:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: And we're back. President Trump stoking immigration fears ahead of the midterm elections. Let's discuss now. Keith Boykin is here. Margaret Hoover, who is the host of PBS's "Firing Line" and doing quite well at it. And Scott Jennings as well. Thank you all. Good evening.

MARGARET HOOVER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Good evening.

LEMON: So, the midterms is two weeks away. The president is in full us versus them mode. Margaret, even calling himself a nationalist. What's your reaction to all of this?

HOOVER: When you're a Republican looking down the barrel of first recall any sitting president two years in in their first off-year election cycle, historically with the exception of one time, in 2002 after 9/11, after 9/11, historically loses seats in the House of Representatives and the Senate.

So the president and Republicans are already looking down the barrel of losing seats in the House of Representatives. But now they're looking at a generic ballot of anywhere between eight and 13 points against the Republicans.

The democrats have the fund-raising advantage. They have a grassroots mobilization advantage. They have an enthusiasm advantage. And things I'm just seeing privately in my polling are not looking good for Republicans in these swing districts, suburban Republican districts where women are motivated and independents are turning out on the wrong side. It's not looking good for Republicans. So what is he going to do?

LEMON: Yeah.

HOOVER: Drum up the base. And that's what the caravan is about. And that's what the LGBT anti-trans guidance is about.

LEMON: That's what the nationalist --

HOOVER: And that's what this -- this is all playing to the base.

LEMON: Yeah. Scott, listen, the idea that economic worries led to Trump winning in 2016, that has been called into question and really debunked by studies finding that racial resentment was the key factor. Is this why President Trump keeps returning to the immigration and the caravan so close to this election?

SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think he's talking about the caravan so close to the election because the caravan is happening close to the election. I mean, every day you can turn on any number of news channels including this one and see video of a growing group of people who are advancing toward America's southern border. I think it's possible to have sympathy for this group of people but also a --

LEMON: Eleven hundred miles away.

JENNINGS: -- position for the president of the United States to say I'm not so sure we shouldn't be fortified against a whole bunch of folks coming across that we don't necessarily know who they are. I grant most of these folks are not criminals, are not bad people, and many of them have sympathetic stories. But it is absolutely legitimate for the U.S. government to want to know who these folks are and vet them.

We're either going to have laws and borders or we're not. And I think most Americans are looking at this video and thinking the president is in the right in saying I'm going to defend the southern border against a large group if they want to try to come in.

LEMON: Scott, do you think that's going to be effective without him on the ballot, though, because he is not on the ballot?

JENNINGS: Well, you know, I actually don't -- I mean, look, I think the president has been talking about immigration since day one. I think Republicans were already there in terms of voter enthusiasm. I think the Kavanaugh situation got the Republican Party, you know, finally snapped it to attention on what's at stake in this election.

This is coming after that. So, this has been a bread and butter issue for him. I don't think he needed it. I think the Kavanaugh thing had already gotten Republicans basically on parity with enthusiasm with the Democrats.

LEMON: OK. So I just want to put this up because the president would have you believe -- and if you watch, you know, some of his tweets, these people are like five miles away and they have like pitchforks and tiki torches. Put up the map. They're 1,100 miles away from the border. Many of them will not make it to the border at all. And this does happen occasionally.

[23:45:00] You get a caravan of people coming who want to claim asylum. And here's the interesting thing. The process is people. It doesn't say only five people or 10 people or 1,000 people can come and claim asylum in the United States every year, right?

That's the process. You come here, you claim political asylum. They process it. We decide, meaning America and our government, they get to decide who comes in and who doesn't. That's the legal process. So what's the issue?

KEITH BOYKIN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: There's no guarantee that just because you come and you apply for asylum, you'll actually be granted that asylum. The other part about this is that of the 300,000 people who came across the southern border last year, who were apprehended, according to the estimates from the government, the federal government, 61 of them, that's 0.02 percent of them, came from Middle Eastern countries.

But Trump is out there fanning the flames at his campaign rallies trying to stoke the fears to his base that these are people who are coming from terrorist countries who are going to infiltrate America and change our way of life. You know, it's one thing, the argument that Scott made is a perfectly rational argument. I disagree with it, but it's a perfectly rational argument, perfectly rational way to present the argument.

What Trump does on the other hand is to take a rational argument and to twist it beyond reason to a grotesque form to distort the reality. That's what's so disturbing about his rhetoric. It's designed to feed the fears of his base. It's not designed to prevent information or facts. It's designed to purvey fear.

LEMON: So, here's a plan. We fly to Mexico and then we're going to walk a thousand miles.

(LAUGHTER)

BOYKIN: Just to embarrass Trump before the midterm elections.

LEMON: You wanted to say something, I know.

HOOVER: I think what Keith said is correct. I'm actually really more bent out of shape about this anti-trans HHS legislation, which is clearly a play to the base, clearly stoking the fears. Truly of all of the administrations, the guy who was supposed to be the most pro-LGBTQ Republican in history.

This is the most regressive and really restrictive guidance, proposed guidance, anti-trans, anti-LGBTQ guidance that the administration -- worse than anti-trans in the military.

LEMON: But Margaret, this is exactly what I said. This is us versus them. There's no need to bring up this issue now --

HOOVER: This is us versus them, .03 percent of American are trans.

LEMON: No, no, no. I'm saying but to the base. You know, these people are -- is this what you want your country to be like? This group -- this group of people who he sees as other. That's --

BOYKIN: I think it's actually even worse than that. I don't think -- honestly, I've watched Donald Trump long enough in New York and --

LEMON: Quick, I have to get to the break.

BOYKIN: I don't think he even really cares about the trans issue. I don't even think he cares about the immigrant issue.

LEMON: It helps him politically.

BOYKIN: He uses his issues for his base. I think he actually probably likes trans people. That's the reason why Caitlyn Jenner probably felt like he was going to be supportive. But he will twist and exploit anybody to --

LEMON: He likes Caitlyn Jenner because Caitlyn Jenner was a Republican.

BOYKIN: Well, that's part of it.

LEMON: There you go. So, everybody, stay with me. What happens when a Trump-supporting candidate for governor is asked if the president is a role model for children? Stick around to find out.

[23:50:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: The Florida governor's race is one of the most hotly contested this election season. Republican Ron DeSantis and Democrat Andrew Gillum squaring off in a debate last night. And even though he's not running for anything, President Trump's presence looming large over the proceedings.

Back with me now, Keith Boykin, Margaret Hoover, and Scott Jennings. So Keith, listen, former Congressman DeSantis has quoted Trump supporters since day one. I want you to listen to -- this is a moment when DeSantis was asked specifically if Trump is a good role model for children.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAKE TAPPER, CNN CHIEF WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Do you think President Trump is a good role model for the children of Florida?

RON DESANTIS, REPUBLICAN CANDIDATE FOR GOVERNOR IN FLORIDA: Well, Jake, my wife and I were poking a little fun at ourselves because of the way the campaign was going. I'm proud of my family though. I don't actually read "The Art of the Deal" to my son, Mason.

He is a great kid, he smiles at anything, but that's not necessarily his cup of tea. So here's what I know. I was very passionate about moving our American embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem. He was right to move the embassy to Jerusalem. I was there for a historic event. I know Andrew didn't support that and doesn't think that's right. But to me, that was true leadership.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: OK, so then, Gillum was like, I don't really understand the question, what was it, and he said the question was whether he was a good role model, he just dodged the question.

BOYKIN: He doesn't want to answer the question. Donald Trump has called people horseface. He's talked about grabbing people by the pussy. He's talked about shithole countries. He's used language that I couldn't use on any time of the day to people. And there is no way anybody of any party can look at him and say that he is a respectable role model for young people in our country.

And that's what so disgusting because it is contrary to exactly what the Republican Party has been preaching for the past 50 or so years. The other part of this is that Ron DeSantis is in trouble in Florida. He's part of a pattern I think of other people who are running these desperately racist campaigns. I think a campaign in Texas -- I can't remember, that a person has a black hand over a white woman's mouth and that type of thing.

LEMON: Yeah.

BOYKIN: And the voter suppression laws in Georgia. It's all part of this orchestrated effort to appeal to the white base. And the Republican Party has to broaden. You can't be a party of straight white men.

LEMON: Let's ask one.

(LAUGHTER)

HOOVER: Straight white man.

(LAUGHTER)

BOYKIN: Sorry, Scott.

HOOVER: If only we had a straight white man.

[23:55:01] LEMON: There he is.

BOYKIN: You're OK --

LEMON: Scott.

BOYKIN: You're only 29 percent of the population.

LEMON: How would you answer that question, Scott?

JENNINGS: I'm sorry, are we talking about the location of embassies?

(LAUGHTER)

LEMON: Quickly, please, I got 20 seconds here. How would you answer that?

JENNINGS: There is something about Trump I admire, but honestly there are things he does that I would not want my children to emulate. There are behaviors that he exhibits that are not good role models for children. In the Jennings household, for role model, we start with Jesus Christ, we go to our parents and our family. That's where we go for role models. Politicians, not high on my list of role models these days.

LEMON: The president, never on your list for a role model?

HOOVER: (INAUDIBLE).

JENNINGS: No, that's not true. There are some presidents that have been and some politicians that have been at times. But you can't look at a person, the president or anyone else, and say 100 percent of the time, this is exactly who you should emulate. Clearly, people have exhibited behavior. In the case of President Trump, it's true, that you wouldn't want your children to emulate. I don't know why it's so hard to say that.

BOYKIN: I don't know why it's hard to say either. But I think the problem is Trump does it more than any other president in my lifetime, probably more than any president in a century or so.

LEMON: Margaret, last word.

JENNINGS: Was JKF a role model? Was LBJ a role model? Was Richard Nixon a role model? Did they exhibit behavior that you would want your children to follow all the time? Of course not.

BOYKIN: We're talking about public behavior. The public behavior of most presidents in my lifetime has been far better --

JENNINGS: Was Bill Clinton a role model? Was Bill Clinton a good role model for children?

LEMON: Margaret, he took your --

JENNINGS: Was Bill Clinton a good role model?

BOYKIN: Not everything he did, but that's the thing, the hypocrisy of it all. Republicans condemned him and impeached him. And then Donald Trump has sex with porn stars and playmates and they excused him, pretend like it didn't happen. No big deal.

LEMON: Thanks for watching. Our coverage continues.

[24:00:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)