Return to Transcripts main page

Don Lemon Tonight

President Trump Doubles Down On Declaring Himself A Nationalist; President Trump Condemns Khashoggi's Death; Midterms and The Gender Gap; Airline Passenger Accused of Groping Woman, Claims Trump Says It's OK; Woman Harasses Family for Speaking Spanish in Virginia Restaurant; Megyn Kelly Apologizes for Defending Blackface Halloween Costumes. Aired 11-12a ET

Aired October 23, 2018 - 23:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[23:00:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DON LEMON, CNN HOST: This is CNN TONIGHT. I'm Don Lemon. After making a stunning admission on Monday telling a Texas crowd, I am a nationalist, the President doubling down today defending the use of his term.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Call me a nationalist if you'd like, but I don't want companies leaving. I don't want them firing all their people, going to another country, making a product, sending it into our country tax free, no charge, no tariff, no nothing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Well, the President says his nationalism is about trade and economics. It's about economics. But it's a choice to call yourself a nationalist. That word comes with an ugly history for many. Even now it's full of racial and anti-Semitic undertones. I want you to listen to what the President said when CNN's Jim Acosta asked him if it was a racial dog whistle.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JIM ACOSTA, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Mr. President, just to follow up on your comments about being a nationalist, there is a concern you are sending coded language or a dog whistle to some Americans out there that what you really mean is that you're a white nationalist.

TRUMP: I've never even heard that. I cannot imagine that. I'm a nationalist. I never heard that theory about being a nationalist. I have heard them all. But I am somebody who loves our country. When I say a nationalist, I don't like it when Germany's paying 1 percent of GDP for NATO and we're paying 4.3 percent. I don't like that.

I'm proud of our country. I am a nationalist. It's a word that hasn't been used too much. People use it. But I'm very proud of it. I think it should be brought back. (END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Well, no doubt, nationalist is a broad term. It can come down to love of country and wanting to do what's best for your countrymen. But a lot of people avoid using the term not just because of its bloody history in Europe and here in America, but because some of the folks who embrace the term nationalist include these people.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CROWD: (CHANTING) Jews will not replace us. Jews will not replace us.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: The very same people that he defended after one person was killed in the violence in Charlottesville.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: You also had people that were very fine people, on both sides. You had people in that group, excuse me, excuse me, I saw the same pictures as you did.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: So the President is right when he says that it's a word that hasn't been used too much, especially not by our politicians. America's leaders don't usually call themselves nationalists. They call themselves patriots. They do it to make a point about us, our values, and our place in the world. Here's how John McCain explained it just last year.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN JOHN MCCAIN, (R) ARIZONA: To fear the world we would very organized and led the three-quarters of a century to abandon the ideals we have advanced around the globe, to refuse the obligations of international leadership and our duty to remain the last best hope of earth for the sake of some half-baked spurious nationalism cooked up by people who would rather find scapegoats than solve problems is as unpatriotic as an attachment to any other tired dogma of the past that Americans consigned to the ash heap of history. We live in a land made of ideals. Not blood and soil.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: A lot to discuss. Fareed Zakaria is here to break it all down. That was great write. Good evening by the way.

FAREED ZAKARIA, CNN ANCHOR: That was John McCain at his best.

LEMON: At his best. When you hear the President use the word nationalist and then you hear that comment from John McCain, it kind of puts it all into perspective. Why do you think the President is calling himself a nationalist? ZAKARIA: Well, I think it's important that viewers understands,

because they might think, look, what's wrong with the term. It's a perfectly reasonable description, you like your nation and so you are a nationalist and all that and some of them makes perfect sense. Here's why no American President that I know of has called himself a nationalist for many, many, many decades. It's because nationalism was the term that was used by the hyper nationalists of Europe in the late 19th century, the early 20th century. And they used it to do two things.

One to wage really bloody awful wars against other countries and the second was to make the claim that there was within their country a true group of people, real Germans, real French people, and that they represented that nation and that the others, the Jews, the gypsies were outsiders and were in some way or the other second class or to be expelled.

[23:05:18] Nazism is up for like an abbreviation for National Socialism, nationalist socialism. And so that is why American Presidents have been very careful not to use the term. And not just American, Europeans in particular, because you have that history have been very careful not to describe themselves as such. You have a wonderful quote from the de Gaulle.

LEMON: Charles de Gaulle. Charles de Gaulle, patriotism is when love of your own people come first. Nationalism is when hate for people other than your own comes first. Of course he was very instrumental in fighting against the Jews in general, fighting against the Nazis.

ZAKARIA: De Gaulle was the founder of modern France. George Orwell probably the greatest journalist in English language in the second half of the 20th century wrote an essay called "Notes on nationalism" where he makes exactly that point. That nationalism is something that seeks to elevate the interests of the nation above everything else, above all universal rights, values, morality, and ethics and just says the only thing that matters is the interests of the nation as I define them and all the people who don't fit my definition, racial, ethnic are to be excluded.

So it's a very loaded word. It has all this history and liberal Democrats and liberal Democratic leaders certainly since 1945 have been very careful not to use that word. I remember once listening to a speech by Margaret Thatcher in New York at the council on foreign relations where she made this distinction that de Gaulle makes between nationalism and patriotism. How it's appropriate to the love your country. But when you love your country in the context of saying you loved it because it is open, it is Democratic, it protects individual liberties that is patriotism.

When you say that you're a nationalist, you're really saying your country triumphs even over universal values, even over human rights, even over the rights of minorities. And that is bad. So, you know, even a very right wing politician like Margaret Thatcher understood that it was very important to make this distinction. Now, you know, it's all words but the question is does Donald Trump know what he is saying? Is he schooled in the history of nationalism? LEMON: All right. And I think it's important to play this, because

he had an explanation today that I'm not sure carries any weight. This is him originally saying it last night. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: A globalist is a person that wants the globe to do well, frankly, not caring about our country so much. And you know what? We can't have that. You know, they have a word. It sort of became old fashioned. It's called a nationalist. And I say really, we're not supposed to use that word. You know what I am, I'm a nationalist, OK? I'm a nationalist.

(APPLAUSE)

(CHEERS)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Kind of old fashioned. We're not supposed to use that word. But then today at the White House, he tells Jim Acosta, he says he was unaware of the connotation to white nationalism or that it had a negative connotation.

So which is it?

ZAKARIA: Well, that is Donald Trump for you. In a way at some point you think he is using these things unwittingly and it is just getting along. And then he says things which make you think, actually he knows exactly what he is doing. When he picks a fight with a football player and it just so happens that every player he picks a fight which happens to be black, you sort of suspect that it's not an accidental use.

You know, when he starts using the word Middle Eastern in the context of all these migrants coming in, he knows what he is doings. He knows as he himself admitted, there are no Middle Easterners in those caravans. But he knows, he is planted that seed. And even while we take pains to fact check him, we're repeating the story. And in a strange way, it is giving currency, giving great credence to that idea. Because now you have the word association, caravan, migrants, you know, dangerous Middle Easterners. So, I think what we're discovering about Donald Trump, is that he is actually a much more skilled politician at this kind of language than we think.

LEMON: He is skilled at, this is what I remember what my grandmother used to say, are you going to sit there and lie to me with a straight face? That is the worst kind of lie when you sit there and lie to someone with a straight face. That is dangerous. He knows exactly that he is not supposed to use the word, because he said it initially and then when Jim Acosta questioned him about it, he said, well, I am not aware of that. I didn't know. He is lying to the reporters and thusly the American people with a straight face.

[23:10:03] ZAKARIA: But my concern is what he is doing is also very effectively rousing up his base. Remember when Trump -- again, I think you have to give him credit. He understands that low voter turnout for the President's Party is the norm for all midterm elections. So what has he been doing for the last two months? He has been consistently trying to figure out ways to change that pattern to, bring out his base.

So first he nationalizes the midterm election which is difficult to do. He nationalizes it around two issues, one immigration which he knows is the hot button issue for his base, two impeachment. He says if you don't come out and vote, the Democrats are going to win, they're going to let in everybody from all over the world including dangerous Middle Easterners and they're going to overthrow me and impeach me which is overturning your vote from 2016.

So he is given his people this incredible impetus to come in. And now you notice the cultural stuff. So the Trump administration is thinking about reclassifying transgender people. Why? Because it forces Democrats to have to defend, talk about something awkward that they don't want to talk about. I think there is more method to this craziness than we think.

LEMON: I completely agree. And I think that in our coverage as journalists we have to be aware of that, because the rules are, I don't know if the rules are different, but the approach may be different now.

ZAKARIA: And you may be playing into precisely.

LEMON: Completely playing into it every day. I'm so frustrated I'm like my gosh. He'll say something and I know there's the whole news cycle keeps going. But I got to play this, this is what he is been saying about the people who may be coming over. They're a thousand miles away, they are not like at our doorstep right now. Here's what he is been saying drumming up the fear. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: A very good relationship with border patrol and ICE and they say happens all the time from the Middle East. It's not even saying bad or good. But some real bad ones. But --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But no proof they're in the caravan now.

TRUMP: They could very well be.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But there's no proof.

TRUMP: There's no proof of anything. There's no proof of anything. But they could very well be.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: There's no proof but as you said, the dye's already cast. He has no absolutely no proof, none.

ZAKARIA: But he plants the seed now.

LEMON: And you know people will be at those rallies talking about the Middle Easterners in those crowds when there's no proof of it.

ZAKARIA: The odd thing about this is how this has become an election issue. He is the President. He controls the army, the border guards, the coast guard, ICE, INS. If this is a problem, he just needs to do something about it. How is this -- what is he rallying the country to do? It's not like he needs legislation passed and by the way, if he need it, Congress is controlled by the Republicans. So you can see just how entirely invented the issue is because say to yourself, this would make sense if it you were somebody on the outside clamoring and saying to the President of the United States do something about this. He is the President. He can doing whatever he wants. He can stop them. He can you know, use the National Guard. He can use the army. He can do whatever he wants.

LEMON: He is a great motivator. Most of the time it's not rational. Most of the time it's not rational. OK, so listen, this is the President. I want to get this in. More of his reaction to the murder of journalist Jamal Khashoggi who is now -- he is talking about how they handled it. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: They talked about it, nothing that they've done has done well. It certainly has not been spoke on of properly. They did the wrong thing in even thinking about the idea. They certainly did a bad job of execution and they certainly did a bad job of talking about it or covering it up if you'd like to say that. But I would say it was a total fiasco from day one, from the thought, whoever put it in their minds, that was not a good thought. The process was no good. The execution was no good. And the cover-up, if you want to call it that, was certainly no good.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: He seems to be talking about how the cover-up was bungled and not necessarily that it was more and reprehensible what apparently went on.

ZAKARIA: Yes. It was very odd. And he kept using the word execution. I think he didn't realize the pun which was -- I assume not intended. But the execution was successful. It was a planned as the Turkish President has pointed out it was a planned premeditated execution. What was bungled was everything after that and most importantly little bungled was the Saudi government, the monarchy did not realize that brutally planning and executing a murder of a journalist particularly a resident of the United States particularly a Washington Post correspondence would have huge international fallout -- which would have consequences.

[23:15:07] That is the part which I think they got wrong. They thought that this would be something easy to cover up. It might be a ham handed cover-up story, nobody would care. And they were counting on that fact. You know, to the enormous credit of the international community, people have cared. People have demanded answers and demanded explanation. The Turkish government has put itself in an awkward position. You know, it could need loans from Saudi Arabia. It could need financial assistance. And yet they've done what they have done.

LEMON: We still don't know what the repercussions will be for Saudi Arabia.

ZAKARIA: We don't know. This is the longest policy review the Trump administration has ever carried out. Normally he decides like this. With this one he is just waiting, waiting, waiting.

LEMON: Interesting? Fareed Zakaria, thank you. Host of Fareed Zakaria, GPS Sundays right here on CNN. Here's a question, can Democrats be bullish on the blue wave or will the President's personal push on the campaign trail help Republicans maintain control of Congress.

The latest election forecast from Harry Enten and a breakdown of the growing gender gap.

[23:20:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: In just two weeks' time we'll be dissecting and discussing results from the most important midterm election of our lifetime. Democrats are banking on a blue wave while Republicans hope a red wall will allow them to maintain control of Congress.

Joining me now to break it all down, CNN's Political Director, Mr. David Chalian and CNN's Politics Senior Writer and Analyst, Harry Enten. I should say, and in this corner, that would it sound like. Good evening, gentlemen. Harry, two weeks until midterms. Tell us about your latest forecast.

HARRY ENTEN, CNN POLITICS SENIOR WRITER AND ANALYST: Yes, when the House of Representatives, the latest forecast has Democrats winning 226 seats. Of course, you need 218 seats in order to get a majority. So they are eight ahead of that at this time, but I should point out that the margin of error is wide enough that Republicans could definitely maintain control and I'll further point out that Democrats are down a few seat from where we were last week when we discuss this.

LEMON: Yes. Because it was, David, he is right when I spoke to Harry a week ago, he predicted that Dems would pick up 228 seats. Now he is saying 226, so, the past week, the GOP has made up two seats according to Harry's models. What do you think about all these talk about a blue wave?

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Listen, I think, we've got to the look a little bit here at history as long as it can be helpful to us. And we know that a midterm in the first term of a presidency is usually good news for the out party that doesn't control the White House.

So there are certain basics going in here that say this is going to be a good Democratic year. Add to it, that President Trump's approval rating though on the rise and we can talk about that in a moment, is still below what anybody in American politics would like to see their President, their Party's President be at in advance of a midterm election. So, you do have some factors here that suggest, Don, that this is

going to be a good Democratic year. You ask about a wave. I think that is where the big question comes in. Democrats are going to win seats and as Harry forecasts and I think every forecast out there and in fact every Democratic and Republican operative I speak to would say it's more likely than not that the Democrats are poised to win control of House here.

That being said, the reason I think you're seeing Harry's forecast drop down a couple seats for the Democrats is we're seeing Republicans get in this game in a way that they haven't been for the last part of the year and a half. They're getting more enthusiastic about these midterms, the President is on an uptick. And they're in this game now.

LEMON: Let's talk about that. I want to talk about the gender gap, Harry. Your analysis shows that Democrats really have a huge lead with women voters.

ENTEN: Yes. They have an over 20-point lead if you look at the average of the last five live review polls, the high quality polls. And that creates a large gender gap, because men are actually favoring Republicans by an eight-point margin. That creates a gender gap of 30 points which according to my analysis, if you go back since the 1958 midterms elections, it's by far the largest gender gap ever for a midterm election.

LEMON: Yes. What happened -- you know, in 2016, Trump lost overall women overall in 2016, but won among white women. Does that hold up when it comes to the midterm support for Republicans?

ENTEN: In fact it does not. If we look at the latest polls, Democrats are winning among white women. But it's not just women, among white women. It is white women without a college degree. If you look where they voted in 2016.

LEMON: Without a college degree.

ENTEN: They're still voting Republican but only by single digits versus a 25-point margin just two years ago. So, Democrats have made up a significant amount of ground even among district that you would think would be most favorable for Donald Trump.

LEMON: David, what do you see? What is behind this gender gap?

CHALIAN: Yes, I mean, there's no doubt that if the Democrats win the house here, it is going to be fueled and powered by female voters and by the way, by a slew of female candidates. We're seeing record numbers of women on the ballot running for the House. We saw this in Democratic primary after Democratic primary throughout this year that the Party's base voters they've got out there in the primary, they were selecting female nominees at a pace that we had not seen before.

So, there's no doubt that this is a year of the woman in that way and that if indeed the Democrats are successful, it will be in large part to that. and I think it's exactly what Harry is saying is that, we have seen just a peeling away from 2016, the President has sort of taken a group of people, let's say white women without a college degree, again still a Republican advantage but in his actions and his behavior, his tweets, he has started turning some of those folks who reliably with him away.

[23:25:02] LEMON: Yes. But what you didn't mention though, David. And I wonder how much this factors in to, because it is the Kavanaugh confirmation, does that play into these gender gap we're seeing?

CHALIAN: Yes, I think what we are seeing is gender gap before the Kavanaugh confirmation hearing present, as well. I think the Kavanaugh confirmation hearing, Don, I think the biggest impact that had is what I was saying before about jazzing Republicans. This was a generational commitment that Donald Trump followed through on to get Brett Kavanaugh onto the Supreme Court. To move the court in a more reliably conservative direction and there was backlash against how the Democrats were handling that to some degree. Among Republicans that it just fired them up, awakened them. And it was only, you know, a month or so before the election. So the timing was pretty good for Republicans to have that shot in the arm of enthusiasm.

LEMON: OK. So this is a multiple choice test for you, Harry. What do you think the deciding factors will be? Factor or factors will it be voter enthusiasm, will it be the gender gap, something else, immigration, I don't know.

ENTEN: I think they all are. I think if I were looking at the most important issues is health care. That is what really driving the Democratic vote. That has consistently been on the top of many voters for their most important issue. That is been at the top. But I think it is more to that.

Look, as David was pointing out, it's a midterm election. Midterm election tend to be referendums on the President. And because Donald Trump is more unpopular than he is popular, that is allowing Democrats to take advantage of that. And I think if at the end of the day, Democrats do get the house majority it will be because people are coming out to vote against the President.

LEMON: I can make one prediction that I know it will be true. It's going to be an interesting night to watch. Election night. Thank you, Harry, thank you, David. I appreciate it.

CHALIAN: Thanks, Don.

LEMON: A man is accused of groping a woman on an airplane. And what does he say to defend himself? He says quote, "The President of the United States says it's OK to grab women by their private parts." So much to say about that.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:30:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: So a Florida man got into into an in-flight trouble -- got into an in-flight trouble when he allegedly groped the breasts of a female passenger sitting in front of him. The incident happened on a Southwest Airlines flight from Houston to Albuquerque, New Mexico.

After being arrested and questioned by the FBI, what was his defense? Well, Bruce Alexander told authorities this. He said the president of the United States says it's OK to grab women by their private parts. Yep, you heard that right. He tried to defend what he's accused of doing by telling agents that Trump says it's OK. So, why would he invoke Donald Trump? Oh, right.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA (voice over): And when you're a star, they let you do it. You can do anything.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice over): Whatever you want.

TRUMP: Grab them by the pussy.

(LAUGHTER)

TRUMP: You can do anything.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: Oh, so much for Trump's excuse that the Access Hollywood tape was harmless locker room banter. And let's not forget that Trump has got his own history of accusations. At least 15 women have come forward with a wide range of accusations against Trump ranging from sexual harassment and sexual assault to lewd behavior. One of the accusers is Jessica Leeds. She sat next to Trump on a flight around 1980. Here's how she described it to Anderson Cooper.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JESSICA LEEDS, DONALD TRUMP ACCUSER: He was grabbing my breasts and trying to turn me towards him and kissing me and then after a bit, that's when his hands started going -- I was wearing a skirt, and his hand started going towards my knee and up my skirt.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: So unlike Trump who has managed to avoid any consequences despite being accused by at least 15 women, Bruce Alexander is in federal custody tonight facing a sexual assault charge.

So I'm going to bring in now Sara Nelson. She is the international president of the Association of Flight Attendants. Sara, thank you so much. I really appreciate you joining us here.

SARA NELSON, INTERNATIONAL PRESIDENT, ASSOCIATION OF FLIGHT ATTENDANTS: Happy to be here, Don.

LEMON: What went through your mind when you heard Bruce Alexander's excuse?

NELSON: Well, this is disheartening. This is disheartening for flight attendants. I will tell you that in the last couple years, we've been taking on this issue of sexual assault and sexual harassment on our planes.

We found in a survey of our members that passenger on passenger sexual assault happened one in five times that flight attendants had experienced that. And only half the time did law enforcement actually meet the flight.

That survey was taken before the "Me Too" movement broke. After the "Me Too" movement broke, we started talking about sexual harassment against flight attendants and took survey. Our members said that 68 percent of them had experienced sexual harassment or assault in her career. And one in five in the last 12 months had been physically assaulted, sexually assaulted by passengers.

So, we said to the industry, look, you cannot continue to allow us to work in an environment that was set up to be sexualized, where flight attendants were objectified, where they ran ads that said, I'm Cheryl. Fly me!, and/or put us in hot pants and go go boots, and really sold us to the traveling public.

That was never denounced. We called on the industry to do that. United Airlines CEO, Alaska Airlines CEO, Spirit Airlines CEO stepped up as leaders and set a new tone for the culture to say there's zero tolerance for that.

LEMON: That's -- listen, and you an should applaud the folks who are doing that, but let me just get it straight, because you reeled off a number of things there. You said that you talked about the types of incidents that happened on airplanes.

[23:34:57] But -- I mean, have you noticed these types of incidents and other aggressive behavior happening more often on flights either to passengers or to flight attendants?

NELSON: When there is a culture of sexual misconduct, it happens, because people think it's OK. And when you have the highest authority in the land leaving us hanging there with that Access Hollywood tape with the other accusations not just laughing it off or saying that it's something that happened in the past or saying that it didn't happen.

LEMON: Or it's locker room banter.

NELSON: There are not two sides to the story.

LEMON: Yeah.

NELSON: The only thing that should be said from the highest authority in this land is that it should never happen.

LEMON: OK. Let me read your statement -- let me read your statement because I think it's important. It goes into what you're saying now. You released a statement on behalf of the Association of Flight Attendants saying, in part, when the highest authority in the country brags about sexual assault, it is virtually impossible to change a culture of sexual misconduct and contempt for enforcing the laws that should protect victims. Now, you don't mention the president by name, but it is clear who you mean, what you're talking about. Why did your organization decide to wade into this, Sara?

NELSON: Well, we have been working very hard on this issue. Let me be clear. This is not a partisan issue. We just had an FAA bill passed that had some really significant items in it to address sexual misconduct on planes.

And that was passed overwhelmingly bipartisan, writing of this language by both House and Senate Republican and Democrat leadership, passed in the House by 398-23, in the Senate by 93-6. Ted Cruz didn't bother to vote. But this was overwhelming and bipartisan and supported that we need to address sexual misconduct on planes.

So there's real leadership there. It's going to take leadership to turn this around. This is an issue of leadership. And when the highest authority in the land, when the president is allowing this to go on, we are unsafe.

He's leaving all of us hanging because he left those tapes hanging. He never said he was sorry, he never said it was wrong, he never said it shouldn't happen. And that is what has to be done in order to create a safe space for everyone.

LEMON: So Bruce Alexander was charged today, Sara with abusive sexual contact, could face up to two years in jail, $250,000 fine. What message do you want to send to anyone out there who thinks that they can do as they please to women on your airline?

NELSON: Well, I'll tell you what, I want to applaud the flight attendants and the pilots on this plane because the flight attendant said, not on my plane. The pilots said, not on my watch. We are wising up. We are calling on all the public to join us. Law enforcement came too.

Everyone did exactly what they should do to support that victim who reported this issue, to get her away from him, and to move this to justice. And so that's what we're going to continue to do. That's what we're going to continue to call on all of the leadership of this country, both public and private, to say is that we have zero tolerance for this in this country.

This is a country that is not going to accept sexual harassment, sexual assault, sexual misconduct or marginalization of women, period. And if the president president of the United States can't say that, we're all going to take the responsibility to make sure that it happens.

LEMON: Sara Nelson, thank you very much. I appreciate your time.

NELSON: Thank you.

LEMON: More on this, next.

[23:40:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK) LEMON: A Florida man in federal custody accused of groping a woman on an airplane and believe it or not telling an FBI agent that President Trump said it's OK to touch women in their private parts. Andre Bauer is here as well as Areva Martin. Areva is the author of "Make It Rain." Good evening, everyone, both of you.

AREVA MARTIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Good evening, Don.

LEMON: Areva, you just heard about Bruce Alexander, the man accused of groping a woman on an airplane, who argued that the president said it's OK. Is the president an excuse president an excuse or an example or -- I don't know. What is it?

MARTIN: Well, I can tell you, Don, this man is going to need a really good lawyer because the president made me do it or Donald Trump says it's OK is not a legal defense. It's not going to help him out of the very serious trouble that he's in.

Your former guest, I think, said it right when she said flight attendants and people traveling on airplanes are not going to tolerate this kind of unacceptable behavior.

But this is what happens, Don, when you have a president that espouses the kind of rhetoric that the president does, that has 19 women that accused him of some kind of sexual assault or sexual harassment.

It's not surprising to me that individuals like this defendant who is using the Donald Trump defense would start to mimic the president.

The president in the eyes of many people gets away with everything. He's gotten away with the heinous treatment of women. So, other individuals like this Mr. Alexander believes that he can also get away with it.

LEMON: All right.

MARTIN: Unfortunately, he's wrong. I'm glad he's been arrested. I hope he's prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law, and I hope he serves the maximum jail time for groping this woman's breasts. It's completely unacceptable.

LEMON: OK. Let's bring Andre, because again, Andre, this one -- according to the FBI, he stated that the president is -- "the president of the United States says it's OK to grab women by their private parts." Is there any responsibility from the president, meaning his language wise and that sort of thing, sort of messaging he puts out?

ANDRE BAUER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: This type of behavior, Don, was around way before Donald Trump was ever on the political scene. This guy assaulted this person. You know, there's no excuse for it. You're responsible for your actions. He needs to be held accountable.

[23:45:00] But, you know, to blame it on somebody else, I don't think it is really fair. There are plenty of other folks we could point to that have had activity like this. In the end of the day, all of us know, we put our hands on somebody else, that's an assault. You know, he can say anything he wants. I don't think it holds water to blame it on one person other than the person that's doing it.

LEMON: So, then the president's language has no bearing on any of the culture?

BAUER: Well, I'm not saying that. The president's language clearly has a bearing on the culture, but there are a lot of things going on right now culturally that have a bearing on the culture, not just Donald Trump. I don't think you can say if someone is touched inappropriately, you fault Donald Trump with that. I think that's a little bit of a stretch.

MARTIN: I think the difference here is this guy identified Donald Trump. He didn't point to anyone else that is engaged in any kind of similar conduct. He specifically identified the president of the United States. We can't ignore the bully pulpit and the position that the president has and the power that his words have.

And, of course, educated smart people will know that just because the president says, it doesn't mean that they can do it and get away with it. But somebody listening to Donald Trump believes that they can engage in the kind of conduct that he says it's OK to engage in. Apparently this gentleman believed that he could do so or otherwise he wouldn't have specifically referenced the president of the United States.

LEMON: Last week --

BAUER: I think we all know that's not -- go ahead, Don.

LEMON: I just want to move on to another subject. I know how you feel. Last week, a woman was caught on tape, right? Yelling racist remarks at a family speaking Spanish at a restaurant in Virginia. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Show your passport.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): I'm still innocent. Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Back to your (bleep) country.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Go back to your (bleep) country, OK?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): You do, too.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Don't freeload on America!

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: She yelled show me your passports while they ate. What's your reaction, Andre? BAUER: This type of behavior is so disrespectful. I hate to see it in the political world where we are seeing more and more of this. It is a culture that I hate to see our country moving towards. We see more and more of it nowadays, but it's appalling to me.

LEMON: Areva?

MARTIN: I would like to think, Don, if we saw the president come out against this kind of conduct in the same way that we see him at those big rallies talking about locking people up and discrediting individuals like Dr. Ford who gave her testimony about being assaulted by Brett Kavanaugh, if we saw the president use his bully pulpit, use his opportunity to speak to millions of people to denounce this kind of behavior, I would like to believe that would have some impact on the culture.

And this dog whistle politics that the president engages in, I think, is having a negative impact on how people are treating each other from the plane to this woman who is being attacked because of her ethnicity.

LEMON: I got to get to the break. I have to move on. I got to get to the break. There's much to cover here. Andre, Areva, stay with me. Megyn Kelly forced to apologize tonight after questioning why blackface Halloween costumes are considered offensive. We are going to talk about it, next.

[23:50:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: So Megyn Kelly apologizes tonight for her latest round of racially insensitive comments, NBC host who once proclaimed Santa Claus is white, now backtracking after defending blackface Halloween costumes on her show today. It came up when she asked her panel where people should draw the line.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MEGYN KELLY, HOST, NBC: But what is racist? You truly do get in trouble if you are a white person who puts on blackface at Halloween or a black person who puts on white face for Halloween. When I was a kid, that was OK as long as you were dressing up like a character.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: So, Areva and Andre back. Areva, what do you think of these blackface comments and Megyn's apology?

MARTIN: Yeah, well, you know, I'm just kind of stunned by Megyn's comments. She's a smart lady, obviously. But the question, what is racist, I would like to think she understands what racist is and what racist isn't. And I can tell her and anyone else that's watching, wearing blackface for a Halloween costume is absolutely positively racist and offensive and don't do it.

I think the whole conversation just demonstrates the lack of knowledge people have about African-American history, about the use of blackface, and about white privilege. And I think this is a teachable moment where we can educate people about how blackface was used when African-Americans weren't allowed roles in Hollywood and theatrical plays and white people used blackface as a stereotypical caricature of black people.

It's dehumanizing. It's demoralizing. And it shouldn't be used as a Halloween costume. There are so many other things you can be at Halloween. Superwoman, wonder woman, Batman. But don't put on blackface because it's incredibly offensive to African-Americans.

LEMON: But how much teaching, Areva? Aren't you -- I'm tired.

(LAUGHTER)

MARTIN: Don't grow weary in the --

LEMON: I'm tired because is it -- why is it always incumbent upon the people who are oppressed or people who've been discriminated against to teach the people who are doing the discriminating, discrimination?

MARTIN: I didn't say that, Don. I said history lesson. It's incumbent upon Megyn Kelly and people in her position to themselves educate them on the history of blackface, white privilege, and how African- Americans respond to that. I agree with you, it is not always --

LEMON: Yeah.

MARTIN: -- about African-Americans educating other people about our history. It's their obligation to also learn if we're going to really have a serious conversation about race in this country. Can't just be one-sided.

LEMON: Just Google -- Google Al Jolson, y'all. Just Google Al Jolson and you'll learn a lot right there.

MARTIN: Don't do it. Don't do it.

[23:54:57] LEMON: All right. Listen, Andre, several hours after our comments about blackface, Megyn wrote a note and she did an apology to her NBC colleagues. She wrote, "today is one of those days where listening carefully to other points of view including from friends and colleagues is leading me to rethink my own views. I realize now that such behavior is indeed wrong and I am sorry. The history of blackface in our culture is abhorrent, the wounds too deep." Do you think lesson learned here or what do you think?

BAUER: Well, I watched -- I actually watched you on Cuomo's show, and I saw how passionate you were about it and how it cuts extremely deep to you. And being a white guy, you know, I don't understand it as much. I don't mean that any disrespect. I just don't. I can't feel it the same way.

So, I watched her show, and to me she just made a factual statement that years gone by when she was a kid more people did it. And I tend to agree. I remember --

LEMON: She said it was OK. But it wasn't OK, Andre. It wasn't OK.

BAUER: No, no, no. I'm not saying it was OK. And I didn't -- maybe I'm -- I watched it and I just thought she was stating, you saw it back then, you don't know and times have changed. I think back when we were kids, Don, and you had things like "The Jeffersons" and Archie Bunker and it was a different time.

You could never get away with that today, or would it be tolerated. But those were different times. So I didn't take it as she was saying it was OK or not OK but she was stating she used to see it when she was a child.

MARTIN: Andre --

BAUER: And by no means am I trying to defend --

LEMON: I've got to go. I've got to go.

MARTIN: Yeah.

LEMON: I've got to because I am out of time.

MARTIN: I think you are defending her, Andre. Give it some thought. You just defended her. That's unacceptable.

BAUER: I'm not.

LEMON: I've got to go.

BAUER: To me that's wrong that you would say that, because all I did was present facts.

LEMON: Andre, that's not what she said, though.

MARTIN: It's not the facts.

LEMON: Hold on, Areva.

MARTIN: You did not present the facts.

LEMON: Yeah. That's not what she said. She said that it's OK. It was OK when she was growing up. She's 47 years old. She is my age. Blackface was never OK. Maybe people did it, but just because someone did it, that doesn't mean OK. That proves the point that Areva just made.

Maybe people lived in a bubble. Maybe people didn't understand their privilege. Maybe they didn't understand what was racist and they thought that it was OK in their own community and their own bubble to do it, but it was never -- it has never been OK to do that. Got to go. Good night. Thanks for watching, everyone. Our coverage continues.

[24:00:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)