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Don Lemon Tonight

Ten Bomb Threats Sent to Different Locations; Law Enforcement in Full Alert After the Bomb Scare; The Latest Attempted Attacks on Prominent Democrats and CNN; Law Enforcement Says All Pipe Bombs Went Through The Mail System. Aired 10-11p ET

Aired October 25, 2018 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(JOINED IN PROGRESS)

[22:00:00] CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST: Because, remember, when you look at who we are, we are much more what we just watched with those kids and in that classroom than we are what we see too often on the rally stage.

Thank you for watching. "CNN TONIGHT" with Don Lemon starts right now.

DON LEMON, CNN HOST: OK. Let me tell you, so last night I'm on a group text with people, with friends, and we try to inspire each other. This is at 12.04 when I get off the air. One of my friends send me watch kindergartners in Tennessee learn how to sign happy birthday to celebrate -- sing happy birthday to celebrate a 60th birthday of me, and that was sent out.

And then one of my friends sends out, my, God, I'm ugly crying, OMG, this is beyond sweet. Not everything is terrible. Thank God. Then I said crying tears for the custodian. Now I can go to bed.

So, I'm glad you ran that because that's one of the good things and that is what we're about.

Now let's talk about, can we talk about the business at hand?

CUOMO: Sure.

LEMON: OK. So, do you remember during, when the president and you know, his supporters would always say, well, you know, all these reports coming from the FBI, and from the intelligence agencies, they say there's no collusion, there's no -- or that it didn't change the outcome of the election. So, they would say that.

But with the reports, the people who did reports would say is, that wasn't part of the equation. We weren't trying to figure out if it changed the outcome of the election.

CUOMO: Right.

LEMON: Whether there was influence in the election.

CUOMO: Right. LEMON: If Russia meddled in the election. It is the same thing, and

you and I discussed it, with the Pew study, that every single comes on and talks about, there's 90 percent coverage of the president. It's 90 percent negative.

So, let me just read this, all right? This is from the Washington Post and from the people at Pew. "While some may be tempted to read this as evidence of media bias, the leader accused journalism project said that isn't a conclusion one can draw from this study. OK? Rather than try to measure what kinds of mess -- they were trying to measure what kind of messages people were consuming when they get their daily news."

For example, if there -- if someone quoted a protester as saying, I don't like that the president -- what the president said about the crowds at his inauguration. That was weighted as negative. Although that was a truth -- that was -- the truth was he was lying about his crowds. But that's not necessarily being negative on purpose.

And so, the study goes on to say, so, "Thinking back to the early days of the Trump presidency, it is possible that events, themselves, drove negative assessments of the president. For example, a flurry of protests during the first week in office naturally may have led to more negative quotes about the president than there were for Clinton, George W. Bush, and Obama, who did not face protests on such a massive scale during their first weeks in office."

"Stories about people protesting the president might reasonably be more negative than other news stories." And then they say, "OK, the Trump White House has been notoriously leaky. Stories about leaks of damaging information likewise could have potentially driven some negative coverage."

"Again, these are all possibilities and not covered in the scope of Pew's study. But they could have played a part in why news coverage of Trump might have had a relatively large share of negative statements."

And it also talks about the large share of negative statements that come out of the president's mouth we have to cover and that is weighted as negative. But this study does not conclude media bias. So, they should stop using it because what they're doing is misinterpreting what the study is all about.

CUOMO: Don, I love when you assume that your critic base will be reasonable in their assessments of the same.

LEMON: I know that.

CUOMO: They know why the coverage is, look, look at what was just offered up on the show tonight. You don't say enough good things--

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: That's not our job.

CUOMO: You say bad things. And if you say -- he doesn't like it when you say bad things. And his supporters don't like it when you criticize him so you have to take that into consideration. Nope. Not what the job is.

LEMON: No.

CUOMO: It's not about balancing nice things and bad things. And there's something else that people can look at and it takes a second. I've done it many times. This president steps on his own good headlines more than any I've ever seen before.

LEMON: Yes.

CUOMO: He often lies when the truth is even a better story for him. That's on him. Not on us.

LEMON: Yes, listen, I got to tell you, I agree with you. That is not our job to say nice and sweet things about any president. Any president.

Now, people will compare, well, how was the news coverage with Barack Obama? How is the news coverage with Bill Clinton? So, OK, so news coverage of Trump stands out and still another way, fewer than one- third of stories about Trump's presidency or about his policy agenda. That's not much compared to news coverage of the past president.

[22:05:01] Half of the stories at the start of Obama's presidency were about his policy agenda. And the total was even higher for Bush in 2001 and Clinton in 1993. This is a personality-driven president.

CUOMO: Yes.

LEMON: A celebrity president. So, many times we are covering aspects of his personality.

CUOMO: Right.

LEMON: Because that's his strong suit.

CUOMO: Yes. And look, haven't you picked up yet, there's a new talking point. The toggle. The two moves. That when he's in president mode, it's like when they told us about executive time, remember that?

LEMON: Right.

CUOMO: When he's in president mode then you got to treat him right because he's at president mode.

LEMON: And when he's on that on the crowd--

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: But when he's entertainment--

LEMON: Yes, entertainment, yes.

CUOMO: Then that's a different world. Then that's what he meant when he said, well, when I was saying that Gianforte is a great guy, because he body slammed some defenseless reporter. That's entertainment mode.

LEMON: Yes.

CUOMO: Don't scrutinize that, don't pay so much attention to that, I wasn't in president mode.

LEMON: Yes.

CUOMO: I mean, what a crock.

LEMON: Yes.

CUOMO: And look, that's the problem with where we are. You have to be willing to be honest with the people you support.

LEMON: Yes.

CUOMO: And if you're going to be close to power, you've got to be willing to speak truth to power.

LEMON: Yes.

CUOMO: And that's not what's happening around this president. I almost don't blame him for being so self-satisfied. Nobody around him ever tells him he's wrong.

LEMON: Facts first. The Pew study that everyone -- I'll say it again, while some may be tempted to read this as evidence of media bias, the leaders of the Pew--

CUOMO: Yes.

LEMON: -- the leader of Pew's journalism project said that isn't the conclusion one can draw from the study. Stop misinterpreting that, and saying we're biased because we're just reporting the news.

CUOMO: Easy way to test it, by the way.

LEMON: Yes.

CUOMO: Easy way to test it.

LEMON: What?

CUOMO: For two days, just two, if the president of the United States can -- he can attack anybody he wants, but if he does it with decency, not a single slur, not a single insult, not a single lie, two days, let's see what the headlines are. Let's see if he can do it.

LEMON: Are you trying to put someone in time-out? I don't think that's going to work.

CUOMO: It's not time-out. That's time-in. That's what you're supposed to be doing. You get in time-out for the stuff he does on the regular. LEMON: I got to get to it. I got to get -- I'm not going to say your

thing. I got to get to it. You can say the other thing that's on your necktie.

CUOMO: You shouldn't say anything like what I say.

LEMON: Thanks for dinner. I got the most expensive thing, too.

CUOMO: yes, you did.

LEMON: Just because you were paying for it.

CUOMO: You didn't even eat all of it.

LEMON: See you tomorrow. Thank you. This is CNN TONIGHT. I'm Don Lemon.

So, where is President Trump's leadership at this very dangerous moment in our nation's history? Why isn't he speaking out more forcefully about the potential violence that was almost committed against prominent Americans? Pipe bombs can maim and they can kill.

Someone attempted to assassinate former Presidents Obama and Clinton. Former Vice President Joe Biden. Former Secretary of State Clinton, and Congresswoman Maxine Waters, among others.

So far, at least 10 packages found. One of them containing a bomb that was delivered right here to CNN. A manhunt is underway for whoever is responsible. The FBI is treating the attempted serial bombing as domestic terrorism.

But a White House official tells CNN that the president has no immediate plans to label it as such. Instead, incredibly, he is blaming the current hostile political climate on the media.

Tweeting this, this morning. "A very big part of the anger we see today in our society is caused by the purposely false and inaccurate reporting of the mainstream media that I refer to as fake news. It has gotten so bad and hateful that it is beyond description.

False and inaccurate reporting? Is the false statement reporting he doesn't like? But in all fairness, President Trump did temper his remarks and tone down his rhetoric, I should say, yesterday. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We have to come together and send one very clear, strong, unmistakable message that acts or threats of political violence of any kind have no place in the United States of America.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: And then last night, saying this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: My highest duty, as you know, as president, is to keep America safe. That's what we talk about.

(APPLAUSE)

TRUMP: That's what we do. The federal government is conducting an aggressive investigation and we will find those responsible and we will bring them to justice. Hopefully very quickly.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: But then as always, he goes back to his playbook. He tries to take the focus off the bombs and refuses to take any responsibility for his own ugly rhetoric, such as this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hillary Clinton?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She went to your wedding, right?

TRUMP: She did. She did. She did. In a certain way, evil.

She is a crooked one. There's no question. Crooked Hillary Clinton.

It's being perpetrated by some very evil people. Some of them are Democrats, I must say.

[22:10:04] The disgraceful situation brought about by people that are evil.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: It's disgraceful calling political opponents - evil. And then before last night's crowd of cheering supporters, once again, attacking and blaming the media.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: As part of a larger national effort to bridge our divides and bring people together, the media also has a responsibility to set a civil tone and to stop the endless hostility and constant negative and oftentimes false attacks and stories. Have to do it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: There is a very obvious reason why this president would take that tactic, and it is a tactic. It's a strategy. President Trump would rather be in a fight with the media and have the attention on his attacks on us than have the attention where it rightfully belongs.

On questions about the rhetoric. The division and lack of leadership up to this date. And in the wake of the incident. A fight with the media is a fight on his turf. A fight that suits his political purposes. Not to mention, his personality. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: By the way, do you see how nice I'm behaving tonight? This is, like, have you ever seen this? We're all behaving very well. And hopefully, we can keep it that way. Right? We're going to keep it that way.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: No, he's not. It's all about Trump. That's why he always needs an enemy. That's too bad because in times of trouble or despair or violence, Americans look to their president for comfort and leadership. Even when they don't like his policies. They seek out a president's guidance. Reassurance and understanding.

And past presidents responded appropriately when faced with circumstances far more dire and more challenging than this president faces today. Past presidents have shown us their hearts and their souls. President Obama spoke to a nation in shock when first graders were murdered in Connecticut.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I am very mindful that mere words cannot match the depths of your sorrow, nor can they heal your wounded hearts. I can only hope it helps for you to know that you're not alone in your grief. That our world, too, has been torn apart. That all across this land of ours, we have wept with you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: And he stood tall when a white supremacist murdered nine black churchgoers in Charleston.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: Amazing grace--

(APPLAUSE)

OBAMA: -- how sweet the sound that saved a wretch like me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: President George W. Bush projected strength and leadership to a nation horrified by 9/11.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This nation stands with the good people of New York City and New Jersey and Connecticut as we mourn the loss of thousands of our citizens. I can hear you.

(APPLAUSE) BUSH: I can hear you. The rest of the world hears you. And the people--

(APPLAUSE)

BUSH: -- and the people who knocked these buildings down will hear all of us soon.

(APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Well, President Reagan mourned the crew of the Challenger after it exploded in midair in 1986.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RONALD REAGAN, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The crew of the space shuttle Challenger honored us for the manner in which they lived their lives. We will never forget them, nor the last time we saw them. This morning. As they prepared for their journey and waved good-bye and slipped the bonds of earth to touch the face of God.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: FDR reassured a frightened nation after the deadly attack on Pearl Harbor.

FRANKLIN ROOSEVELT, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Yesterday, December 7th, 1941, a date which well live in infamy.

[22:15:02] The United States of America was suddenly and deliberately attacked by naval and air forces of the empire of Japan. No matter how long it may take us to overcome this premeditated invasion, the American people and their righteous might will win through to absolute victory.

(APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: We don't know who sent the pipe bombs or what their motive is, what their political leanings are. We don't know. But the FBI calls them potentially destructive devices. Meaning they could have harmed, maimed, or killed.

It is time for President Trump to follow in the esteemed tradition of his predecessors, not just read words from the teleprompter, but to lead by example.

He should look Americans in the eye and say that he is going to stop using ugly language and lead the nation on a path of healing before somebody gets hurt or killed.

I want to get to the very latest now on this investigation. CNN's National Correspondent, Miguel Marquez joins us. Miguel, good evening to you. Law enforcement now analyzing some 10 mail bombs? Is the FBI any closer to identifying the suspect?

MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Possibly. We now know that all 10 of those bombs, all 10 of those packages, were sent through the postal system which may be able to track them. It's still not clear how several of them did not have postmarks on them. Very rare for packages, even if they're oddly sized not to have a postmark on them.

Law enforcement officials also saying that several of them went through the same facility in South Florida. In Opa-locka, Florida. It's a mail processing center for the U.S. Postal Service. So, they believe that several of those packages originated in that part of Florida or in Florida. They're not sure about the rest.

Also, most, if not all, of those devices are now in Quantico, Virginia, at the FBI's headquarters there where they will go through everything. Not only the packaging, the tape, the stamps, any DNA, any fingerprints, also the devices, themselves. Every part of them.

The trigger, the pipes, even the explosive material or whatever material is inside those pipes to figure out what signatures there are and whether or not they can trace it to an individual or individuals.

So, a lot of work being done, clearly. A nationwide effort with these bombs being found everywhere from Delaware, New York, D.C., Florida, and all the way out in California. Don?

LEMON: Yes. So, you're standing in front the Time Warner Center. I know that there was -- as a matter of fact, the mall was evacuated. A partial evacuation of the Time Warner Center earlier. No more than five or 10 minutes before, I had been eating at a restaurant in which is the mall part of where we are now. Talk to us about that. What was behind that?

MARQUEZ: This is just a sign of how worried and how touchy people are and how concerned things are. Strangely enough, I was also eating in a restaurant there. There was a backpack that was right next to us. The wait staff couldn't identify who it belonged to. They became very nervous.

Shortly after that, the mall was evacuated. There were two small boxes found on the third floor of the mall. They couldn't account for them. Nobody knew exactly what they were doing there. So out of an abundance of caution, they cleared out the mall.

Within minutes, NYPD had swarmed the mall. They brought in bomb- sniffing dogs. They brought in the bomb squad. They took all the bomb gear up into the mall. Moved everybody off the top floors and down below and then was able to clear the incident very quickly, but certainly a sign of just how nervous New Yorkers and this country is right now. There are so many bomb scares and suspicious packages being reported all around the country right now. Don?

LEMON: Miguel Marquez, thank you.

A top FBI official warning today that more mail bombs could come. We're going to break down what these bombs have in common and the latest information investigators are analyzing to find the suspect.

[22:20:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: The FBI warning there could be other packages containing devices out there tonight. As a manhunt intensifies for the suspect responsible for the pipe bombs. Investigators are wondering why none of the bombs actually detonated.

So, let's bring in now Jim Clemente, a former FBI profiler. Also with us, Charles Ramsey, the former Washington, D.C., police chief and former police commissioner of Philadelphia. So good to have both of you gentlemen on especially with the backgrounds, expertise, resumes you have.

Let's discuss. Jim, you're first. Officials are zeroing in on Florida now. They believe several of the packages went through a facility in Opa-locka, Florida. How big of a clue is this do you think in determining who sent these bombs?

JIM CLEMENTE, CEO, XG PRODUCTIONS: I think it's a very big clue. Obviously, Florida is at one end of the country. People have to travel through the rest of the country to get there if they came from somewhere else.

I know from experience in the Unabomber case that Ted Kaczynski lived in Montana but took a bus to San Francisco to mail his packages. This is so that they can throw off investigators. We don't know if that was done in this case, but if that was done, there is a record, there is a trail, and the packages, themselves, the devices, themselves, everything, leads back to the person who did this.

LEMON: Yes. Jim, you're a profiler. What does it say about this bomber, or bombers, that there seems to be some sort of connection between Florida and New York? Does it say anything?

CLEMENTE: Well, just I think this looks like a personal cause bomber and his personal cause happens to be a political agenda. It appears based on who the targets were. But the fact is that bombers typically have this feeling of frustration and anger and powerlessness and they choose bombing because they want to actually feel more powerful. And make a statement, basically.

And so, we're hoping that we're lucky that nobody's gotten hurt yet, and we're hoping that the message is out there and that he doesn't have to try to do this anymore.

LEMON: So, Charles, let me bring you in it. It's 2018. There are -- cameras are everywhere. How quickly are investigators able to go through all the surveillance footage.

[22:25:01] CHARLES RAMSEY, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, I mean, it's a long, tedious process. You have a lot of cameras and it takes a long time to go through all of that evidence.

So, between the video evidence, between the forensic analysis that's taking place now in Quantico, they got an awful lot of stuff to sift through, but I guarantee you they are pulling out all the stops. They've got all the resources they need to be able to do this as quickly as possible because time is very, very important.

You don't want to give this individual an opportunity to actually get another device in circulation, this time maybe it will actually go off and either harm or actually kill someone.

LEMON: Well, let's talk about that, Jim, because thank goodness none of these packages did explode. None of them went off, as Charles said. But is it because the sender didn't intend for them to detonate or are we talking about an unskilled bomb maker here?

CLEMENTE: Well, it could be a number of things. It could be those two things that you mentioned. It could also be that because the first bomb was discovered that everybody's on high alert.

So, the screening processes were increased dramatically, and so all the other bombs were not actually delivered to where they ultimately intended to go. So, it could be that.

It could also be that this is not a sophisticated bomb maker. That it's a first-time bomber. And we have to look at the materials he used and how sophisticated the devices are. And then hopefully we'll be able to determine whether or not he actually has done this before. But most bombers who are successful actually test their bombs before they send them out. Maybe this guy didn't do that.

LEMON: At least 10 bombs, Charles, have now been discovered. California, New York, Washington, Florida. Is this any indication of whether it's one or more bombers?

RAMSEY: Well, that I can't answer because I don't know where the postmarks lead you, when they were mailed, if they were mailed in a variety of locations then logistically it would have to be more than one person that was responsible for that.

But I also think it's important to remember, the bad guys watch the news, too, and right now, this package has been all over the news. So, if this is a person who's really serious, maybe his first attempt failed, he'll keep trying until he gets it right and don't be surprised if they don't change the packaging.

So, people need to be alert. Anything suspicious at all, call authorities. Do not get complacent thinking that if it doesn't look a particular way, then there's nothing wrong with it. You really do need to be paying attention to this person or persons are in custody.

LEMON: I think that is very good advice. What about, Jim, what about the missing postmark on several of the packages? There could be benign reasons for that, but does that concern you? What does that say to you?

CLEMENTE: Yes, I mean, it's possible that these were just luckily going through and didn't get postmarked. I don't know. It seems like, I don't know, it seems like something more sophisticated than that to happen several times. Maybe a machine went down. I don't know. Maybe the shape of it didn't get stamped.

I'm not sure what it means, but I think the fact is that there are 10 devices and so there's going to be a wealth of forensic information in them. If this guy thinks he hid everything, I think he's very wrong. And like the chief said, it could be more than one person. It depends on where the points of origin were and how many of them were released at a given time.

LEMON: Yes. It's interesting. I wonder if maybe it's an insider. Maybe they work for the post office. I don't know. I'm just -- who knows. Right? Where they don't have to go through those things. OK. Thank you, gentlemen. I appreciate that.

CLEMENTE: Thank you, Don.

LEMON: The question here is, who commits terrorist attacks in the United States? We're going to break down the history of domestic terrorism in the U.S. from the Oklahoma City bombing to today.

[22:30:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: So we have a real problem with domestic terrorism in this country, a real problem. We don't know who carried out the latest attempted attacks or their motives. But when you analyze past attacks and talk to the experts, statistic after statistic shows that the majority of domestic terrorism incidents, meaning violence perpetrated by U.S.-based groups or individuals as opposed to international groups.

It comes from right-wing extremists. A recent government report shows that even though more people die during attacks connected with Islamic Jihadist extremists, most of the deadly attacks in the U.S. from 2001 to 2016 were carried out by far right violent extremists. According to the Anti-Defamation League, domestic extremists of all kinds killed at least 372 people in the U.S. between 2007 and 2016.

Right-wing extremists were responsible for 74 percent of those deaths. Left-wing extremists were responsible for two percent. The nonpartisan think tank, New America, also has a breakdown of deadly attacks in the U.S. by ideology. This is post-9/11 up to 2017, the Charlottesville attack, 68 were by far right groups and 8 by left-wing groups or black separatists.

That means using their analysis for every eight deadly attacks carried out by right wing extremists, there was one attack carried out by left-wing extremists. So let's take a look at some of those attacks. This list is by no means comprehensive, OK? So attacks on the left, they do happen. In 2012, Floyd Corkens, he brought a gun to a family research council with the hope of killing as many Christian conservatives as possible.

And memorably and reprehensibly just last year, Republican members of Congress were targeted. Watch this. So the shooter James Hodgkinson was anti-President Trump, singled out House majority with Steve Scalise who was wounded in the attack, almost died, almost bled out right there on the baseball field, baseball diamond. Again, this is not a comprehensive list, but there are some -- there are more examples of violence that we have seen from right-wing extremists over the years, including the deadliest incident on domestic soil, domestic terrorism in American history. We all remember this. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[22:34:52] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The enormous explosion at a federal building in Oklahoma City this morning was the work of terrorists. The bomb went off just as hundreds of people had showed up for work, just as children had been dropped off at a daycare center on the second floor.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: One hundred and sixty eight people were killed when anti- government extremist, Timothy McVeigh, detonated a truck bomb in Oklahoma City in 1995. July of 1996, anti-abortion activist, Eric Rudolph, detonated a bomb at the Atlanta Olympics that killed 1 person and injured more than 100 others. And then July of 2008, Jim David Atkinson opened fire inside a Knoxville church killing two and wounding seven. He told investigators that all liberals should be killed. June of 2015, white supremacist Dylann Roof went on a deadly shooting spree at the AME Emanuel church in Charleston, killing nine people.

Roof targeted the black church because he wanted to incite a race war that he thought whites would win. In July of 2015, John Russell Hauser enters a movie theater in Louisiana with a gun killing two and wounding nine. And Investigators say he praised Dylann Roof and urged people to kill liberals. And then just last August, we heard this on the streets of Charlottesville.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jews will not replace us. Jews will not replace us.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: We all remember the Unite the Right rally, where James Alex Field drove a car into a crowd of counter-protesters, killing Heather Heyer and injuring many others. Unfortunately, I could go on and on. We will see what the facts turn out to be in this case, but the history of domestic terror in the United States is very clear. This President presented with an opportunity to transcend the toxic political climate and address an anxious nation said the media should set a civil tone.

Mark McKinnon is a man who worked for John McCain and President George W. Bush. He gives me his take on Trump's response right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[22:40:00] LEMON: Well, breaking news tonight, law enforcement officials telling CNN that all 10 packages went through the U.S. mail system. And I want to bring in now Mark McKinnon, a former adviser to George W. Bush and John McCain, who is Executive Producer of "The Circus" on Showtime.

Mark, thank you so much for joining us. I really appreciate it. It's good to see you, my friend.

You know we are in an unprecedented situation right now. Two former Presidents, a host of high-level politicians, others, have gotten viable bombs sent to them. How do you assess the President's response to this?

MARK MCKINNON, EXECUTIVE PRODUCER, SHOWTIME'S THE CIRCUS: Well, Don, first of all, I am glad you and your colleagues are safe.

LEMON: Thank you.

MCKINNON: The -- here's the issue. George W. Bush ran as a uniter, not a divider. And to some extent, so did Barack Obama. So did Bill Clinton. So when they had those moments where they needed to call the country together, needed to unite the country, needed to be the healers, they could do so with some credibility. Here's the problem for President Trump.

I am going to quote Mike Gerson who was kind of the conscience of our compassionate conservative message, President Bush's, who can articulate this much better than I can. But here's what he says. You can't call women cruel and misogynistic names. Defame ethnic groups. Discriminate based on religion. Accuse opponents of being un-American and treasonous. Excuse and encourage violence by your supporters.

Threaten political writers with prison. Tear migrant children from the arms of parents, and then credibly call for national unity when it's politically useful, or I would add, just needed. So that's the problem. I mean the President can go on and say the things that he did yesterday. But the problem is if your entire presidency and your campaign has been a -- has been the opposite message, it's just hard to come forward credibly and carry that message out in a way that people are going to believe it.

LEMON: Are you satisfied with the reaction by leading Republicans to these bombs? Are they doing the right thing, Mark?

MCKINNON: You know I can't speak for all of them, Don. I -- you know, ones I have heard are saying the right things and -- but then you have people like Geraldo Rivera and others who are, you know, saying that it's a hoax, which is -- you know I don't know how you can say that unless they're on the investigative team. That -- I mean talk about creating toxic environment. And, you know, that's way beyond the pale for people to be suggesting that it's either a hoax or a deliberate, you know, double reverse by Democrats somehow.

I mean we should all take a step back, everybody on both sides. Let's let the investigation do their job. But in the meantime, let's just take this opportunity for everybody, including the President, I hope to reflect a little bit and the media and everybody to talk about how are we're contributing to an environment that creates -- and a culture that creates situations where this happens. LEMON: Yes. And you're right, we don't know. We don't know what their political leanings are. Whether it was a hoax or not, people were still terrorized, right, so?

MCKINNON: I am sure they are.

LEMON: It was real for the people who were terrorized. I can tell you it was real for the people in this who are building who had to evacuate and were concerned about being blown up. That's real. Let's move on and talk about another issue, because there are reports, Mark, tonight that the President is considering an executive action to prevent migrants from crossing the southern border, even asylum seekers.

Is he playing to the base, trying to put the country's focus back on immigration and this caravan ahead of the midterms?

MCKINNON: Well, I mean it's -- this makes you think of wag the dog, right? You know I wouldn't be surprised to find out if Steve Bannon was down there, you know, hiring migrants to join the caravan. It couldn't be more politically perfectly timed for Donald Trump to return to the message that got him elected in the first place. You know he's got a narrative architecture about creating a threat, creating a villain, creating victims, a solution which is to send the troops to the border and a hero, himself.

[22:45:05] So that's a classic -- he's very good at storytelling. That's how he did it the first time. And he's ramping it up again. You know which is not to say there are not credible issues that we need to resolve relative to the border. But this is a -- let's just say a conveniently-timed opportunity for President Trump to throw down a message of fear which has been very useful to him in the past.

LEMON: It's been very effective. You interviewed someone I -- which I find very interesting for this week's episode of The Circus. Let's listen to the clip about voter suppression.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When you look at the voter suppression stuff in Georgia, right, the people who are now pending, the ones that have been taken off. You look here at the Felon Law, which are unusual felons unable to vote. There's no doubt in your mind those are...

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Absolutely. And by the way, last time I counted, there were roughly 70 pieces of legislation in something like 34 states introduced by Republicans to suppress the vote.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: So Mark, Georgia is in the news, but there are efforts all over this country to remove people from voting rolls, disqualifying them. What's your take on this? MCKINNON: Well, it's not just Georgia. It is -- Vice President Biden

said there's 70 pieces of legislation, various states. We're focusing on Florida and Georgia, this race, and a lot of the racial overtones in both those races, interesting races. Both have African-American nominees on the Democratic side for governor. Both races are really close. In Florida, they've got a Felon Law that they're trying to -- one of only three states that doesn't allow felons.

Once they're out of prison to vote, it doesn't restore their rights. I want to say this as a Republican. This issue of voter suppression, to me, is indefensible. You know I have looked at this issue quite a bit, the notion that -- one of the biggest frauds in politics is voter fraud. There really isn't voter fraud. There's a few, like, random accidental cases of sort of people wandering into booths.

But the notion that there's systemic sort of conspiratorial organized fraud, it just doesn't happen. It's just not the truth. It's made up. But it has created a -- what Republicans have done has systemically created a response to this notion of voter fraud that seeks to oppress the votes of -- mostly voters who would vote Democratic. That's just the way it is, and it's clearly -- it's clearly a strategy and it's one that I find reprehensible as a Republican.

And, you know, they say they're just enforcing the law and all this. But my notion is we're living in the United States of America. We live in a democracy. Secretaries of state should be doing all they can to make sure as many people vote as possible, not trying to go out of their way to make people have, you know, double IDs and...

LEMON: What about when the one who's in charge of it is actually one who's running for governor, the secretary of state? I mean that's a problem, don't you think?

MCKINNON: Well, I mean I think there are three cases in this country now where we have secretaries of states that are monitoring their own elections. I just think that the whole issue of voter fraud is vastly overplayed. It's kind of a scare tactic by Republicans.

LEMON: Of course.

MCKINNON: Listen, I think there are a lot of secretaries in those states who are saying I am just following the law. And they are, but the law's screwed up.

LEMON: Yes. Mark McKinnon, always a pleasure. The episode you said is called black and white, right?

MCKINNON: Black and white. We're looking at these governors races in the south and the extent to which race is playing a role and looking at some of the history.

LEMON: The Circus airs Sunday night on Showtime. Thank you, Mark, I appreciate it. It's as if the President forgot he was on -- he was the one that was calling for all sides to come together in peace and harmony, just hours before blaming the media for the toxic political rhetoric in this country. We're going to discuss that next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[22:50:00] LEMON: So we're back now, and I want to bring in Joe Lockhart and also Frank Bruni. And I want to talk about -- good evening, gentlemen. I want to talk about the President saying that -- talking about the purposely false and inaccurate reporting, really blaming it on the media. He said the media has led to this climate. I got to say everyone at CNN here is working really hard to get accurate information to this ongoing threat as we always do. What do you make of this effort to blame the media? Let's start with you, Joe.

JOE LOCKHART, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Trump will always eventually be Trump. I think yesterday in the east room, he had a teleprompter. He was doing what his staff said he had to do. But it's a ticking time bomb. He's eventually going to do -- you saw it in Kavanaugh. You saw it with Charlottesville where he's going to eventually reveal what's in his heart, which is a pretty dark place.

LEMON: Yes. Listen, I have to keep pointing this out, and I did yesterday, as well, Frank. We have to remember, this was an assassination attempt of two -- of six living Presidents, right? And we -- and he's blaming it on the media and didn't even, yesterday, have the decency to reach out to them.

FRANK BRUNI, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: No, no.

LEMON: Why is he blaming it on the media?

BRUNI: Well, he's blaming it for the exact reason Joe said. If he were a band, he would have only one album, and it'd be a greatest hits album. And the single on that album in heaviest rotation would be that the media is awful and irresponsible, and corroding our whole society, which is I think his ultimate act of projection. I mean he is accusing us of exactly what and who he is and he's doing it for a very simple reason.

If he can convince everyone there's something really awful to look at over here, they're not looking at the awful thing right in front of them, which is a President who refuses to act as a leader, not just at this time but at any time.

LEMON: This is what you tweeted this morning, Joe. You said hey, Press Secretary, because the Press Secretary was sending out, you know, tweets this morning. But you said hey, Press Secretary, do you think the press is to blame for the pipe bombs to Dem leaders? It's your moment. As an advocate for the press, can you stand up your to your boss and tell him to knock it off?

That Twitter handle is not yours. It's the office. Use it properly or give it up. And then this is Sarah Sanders, this is what she said today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) SARAH HUCKABEE SANDERS, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Day in, day out, there's a negative tone, 90 percent of the media attention around this President is negative. You guys continue to focus only on the negative. And that is -- there is a role to play. Yesterday, the very first thing that the President did was come out and condemn the violence. The very first thing your network did was come out and accuse the President of being responsible for it.

[22:55:00] That is not OK. The first thing should have been to condemn the violence. Look, there's a big difference between comments made and actions taken. The President is certainly not responsible for sending suspicious packages to someone -- no more than Bernie Sanders was responsible for a supporter of his shooting up a Republican baseball field practice.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: OK, so first of all, the first thing -- that was just a bold- faced lie. The first thing that networks were doing was trying to figure out exactly what was going on. The first thing that this news network was doing was trying to get the hell out of harm's way and stay on the air. So that was a bold-faced lie. And her whole thing about Bernie Sanders, I never saw Bernie Sanders ridiculing people, constantly berating them. It's a complete -- completely false equivalence.

LOCKHART: Yes, and it's particularly appalling because, you know, she works for us, the taxpayers. And her job, the biggest part of her job is to advocate for the press. And, you know, I had her job. And there were a lot of times I went toe to toe with the President who didn't necessarily want the press to have access. And there were days he was very hostile to them. There were days I was hostile to them.

But she's out there repeating the same lies and, you know, if you read her Twitter, it's not Sarah Sanders American citizen's Twitter. It's the office of the Press Secretary. And she's lying and she's spreading division. She's talking about the caravan of migrants coming in to commit crimes just like her boss. Donald Trump got 60 million plus votes. So he gets to say what he wants. She should leave.

LEMON: Here's the thing, to say that the media is saying that President Trump is responsible, again, that's a twisting of the facts and of the narrative.

BRUNI: Yes.

LEMON: To say I think it's completely fair, and I think what we have been saying is that the President is contributing to an environment where people feel safe or he -- or putting it out there where it may be OK or dividing people. That's not saying that the President put the bomb in the envelope or influenced this person in a direct way to do what they're doing, but he is contributing to a very toxic environment in this country right now.

BRUNI: It's a totally fair point to make. And I have been monitoring the media on this carefully. And you're absolutely right. I have not read or heard anything where someone has said Donald Trump is directly responsible for this. In fact, most of what I read pauses right at the start, and says we have no idea who did this. There are more questions here than answers.

But it's a good moment to note that we have a President who unbelievably, you know, encourages violence at his rallies, who paints the media. When you say enemy of the people, when you say they're awful people, they're evil. He's done all of this. You are essentially declaring a kind of open season on journalists.

LEMON: You're not saying they're enemies of the people to Democrats or enemies of the people to Republicans. The person who is sending this could be a Democrat. You have no idea what their ideology is, but they are part of the American environment where this has been -- where he is fostering some of this.

LOCKHART: And it's not just reporters. And I think what he wants to do, because people are suspicious of the media, is keep him there. Remember in the campaign, he said I want to see what would happen if Hillary Clinton didn't have her secret service detail. And if she gets elected, maybe the second amendment crowd will get her. That is a threat on her safety.

LEMON: Yes.

LOCKHART: And it started in 2015, 2016, and it continues. And it was wrong then and it's wrong now.

LEMON: Yes. Thank you both. I appreciate it. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)