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Don Lemon Tonight
Trump to Visit Victims of Shooting in Pittsburgh; White House Refuses to Admit Trump's Rhetoric Incites Violence; From Commander-In- Chief To Counselor-In-Chief; In The Wake Of The Anti-Semitic And Deadly Attack In Pittsburgh; President Is Ramping Up His Campaign Appearances And His Rhetoric. Aired 10-11p ET
Aired October 29, 2018 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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[22:00:00] CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST: These are people who knew the sting of bigotry. Their families fled here. I've heard their stories my entire life. America was seen as the safest place to be, and now you have to wonder and they are wondering is that still true after Saturday?
It is only if we are all about keeping that promise to fight hate everywhere we see it, like the film said. Don't be a sucker. Don't forget who we are. Don't be a sucker.
Thank you for watching. "CNN TONIGHT" with Don Lemon starts right now.
DON LEMON, CNN HOST: OK. I have a question for you. I thought about it as you were saying this. As you said, well, first of all, he's not going to do what you said. It would be great. We should stop counting on him for that.
But the other thing is you said he's not directly responsible, which I think people can agree. He didn't put the gun in anyone's hands. But what does this say about someone who takes advantage of the weaknesses of others or preys upon their vulnerability? What does that say about him?
CUOMO: Well, look, it's called a demagogue. And I believe in free choice, and certainly I believe in the law. And I don't believe in overextending responsibility. There's no need to. The truth is damning enough.
He is a demagogue. He is pushing on themes that divide this country. He believes in us versus them. He believes in it so much that he is surrendering what was once his greatest gift in politics, which was a feel for the masses. He is under 50 percent. He's going to stay there if he keeps this up. And that is something he has to know and his friends over at Fox. Let them get their ratings. Let them get their fan and put out their books and make all their money.
They don't have half this country with them. And that's part of the reality that harshness doesn't seem here, Don. It never has, not to the majority. LEMON: I wonder if some people were not in the positions they were
in, if he wasn't president of the United States, would the level of inciting people towards violence, like, you know, knock them in the head or whatever, I'm paraphrasing here, I'll pay your legal bills or whatever, if he wasn't who he was, if he wasn't maybe the president of the United States now, I wonder if there would be law enforcement somewhere at his door or someone saying, hey, listen.
CUOMO: He wouldn't have said it.
LEMON: Knock it off.
CUOMO: We didn't used to hear him saying things like this because it wasn't a calculated advantage for him.
LEMON: When he was a Democrat, you mean.
CUOMO: Yes. He was a Democrat for a long time. And after that, he was just a guy, you know, he was just a guy whatever worked with him was fine. And he cherry picked some ugly issues. And we know that. We've talked about that.
But, look, even his fame, Don -- what has this guy always been about? He's always been about negativity. His signature line was, you're fired. OK. He made popular, and his stardom was the thing people want to hear least in their life. And he was the top of a show, a great reality show that was all about chaos, him stirring the pot, and him seeing whom who would eat whom.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: That's what he's been about on one level or another.
LEMON: When you think about it the only party that he really belongs to is the opportunist party.
CUOMO: Look--
LEMON: And it's a shame that people who -- I won't say that. But go on.
CUOMO: Listen, all I'm saying is this. And I've really been getting exposed to a lot more of this recently, especially with the double duty here and with the radio show.
You can have a strong economy and do everything he's done with taxes and regulations and not speak the way he does. You can fix the immigration system and bring -- build the biggest ass wall you've ever seen in your life, make the Chinese jealous, and you don't have to talk about humanity the way he does.
LEMON: This wall thing, have you seen the tunnels?
CUOMO: Yes, I've actually been in them.
LEMON: That they build under-- CUOMO: They're tight. Weren't made for people my size, Don.
LEMON: What are we doing? People don't understand the wall will do nothing. Nothing. People will dig under the wall or they'll just get a ladder that's higher than the wall. It's -- anyway, but that's another story. I digress.
CUOMO: Look, you're not wrong. But what I'm saying is politics comes with opportunities and consequences. If that's what you want to do and you want to stake yourself on it, then go ahead, build your wall. People will say, not with my money. Whatever, the government, you know, misuses tax funds all the time.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: They make their decisions and they do what they want. All I'm saying is he's pitching people like from that movie like 1943 said.
LEMON: Right.
CUOMO: He's playing them for a sucker.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: Well you just said what I said I'm not going to say but that's what I said he belongs to the opportunists party.
(CROSSTALK)
CUOMO: Well that's what the U.S. government said in 1943 to people.
LEMON: Right.
CUOMO: "Don't Be a Sucker."
LEMON: Well.
CUOMO: That was the name of the film.
LEMON: A lot of people are. A lot of people are. I have a guest on tonight who will say to me, because they said it, if he didn't demagogue, as you said, if he didn't spout off conspiracy theories at his rallies, what else would he have to talk about?
CUOMO: He could talk about his economy, he could talk about what's good for immigration.
LEMON: Good.
(CROSSTALK)
CUOMO: He could talk about what he'll do for health care.
LEMON: What would that do?
CUOMO: He could a lot of stuff. LEMON: Would that incite the base though?
(CROSSTALK)
CUOMO: It might expand his base. He's not even at 50 percent. He has one of the best economies we've seen in modern history.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: There's nobody trying to kill us from abroad right now. We're doing a pretty job from within.
[22:05:02] LEMON: Well--
CUOMO: But he has plenty to blow a horn He should be at or 50 percent easily, and he isn't.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: And the reason he isn't is for the reason that we call him out, and that will never stop. This guy has got to understand that. People keep saying to me, you know, the president keep saying you should stop. Don't think you should. I said of everything. It makes me feel like we must be doing the right thing.
LEMON: Yes. Well, I got to say, remember I told you, I was -- I gave you that word that I hate to say, you know what off last week? I'm really mad too because a lot of people I love were affected by the tragedies over the weekend. That's all I'll say. I'll see you tomorrow. Thank you.
CUOMO: All right, my man. I'll be watching.
LEMON: This is CNN TONIGHT. I'm Don Lemon.
So, you hear a lot of people say that this is not America. It couldn't be. America couldn't be a country where Jewish worshippers are massacred in their synagogue on the Sabbath, right? America couldn't be a country where black senior citizens are shot to death at a grocery store, allegedly by a man who was said to have claimed whites don't shoot whites.
America couldn't be a country where pipe bombs are sent to people you deem your political opponents, who have been repeatedly demonized by the president of what is supposed to be the United States.
A lot of people say, this is not America. Well, I hate to say this. I mean I really hate to say it. But this is America. Look at the evidence.
On Saturday, the worst anti-Semitic attack in this country's history. Eleven people killed in cold blood. The dead including a 97-year-old woman, two developmentally disabled brothers, and a couple in their 80s, a couple who were married at the same synagogue more than 60 years ago. The alleged shooter is an anti-Semite who blamed Jews for helping
people in migrant caravans. Last week it was an African-American man and woman, both in their 60s, shot to death allegedly by a white man who had first tried to attack a predominantly black church nearby.
And then there are the pipe bombs. Fifteen of them sent to prominent Democrats and to CNN. The latest just today.
And where are our leaders in the midst of all this, at a time when Americans are looking for a strong denunciation of the evil we see around us? President Trump began his day tweeting out another false attack on the news media, leaving Sarah Sanders to speak for him from the press room podium.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SARAH HUCKABEE-SANDERS, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: The president has denounced racism, hatred, and bigotry in all forms on a number of occasions, will continue to do that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: You heard that, right? She said this president has denounced racism, hatred, and bigotry in all forms. She really said that. That would be laughable if the past few days hadn't proved that this is literally a matter of life and death. Remember how Donald Trump started his campaign, like this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: When Mexico sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're bringing drugs. They're bringing crime. They're rapists.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: He made a Muslim ban a centerpiece of his campaign.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Donald H. Trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Repeatedly dancing around the question of whether he disavowed David Duke, the former leader of the Ku Klux Klan.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Well, just so you understand, I don't know anything about David Duke, OK? I don't know anything about what you're even talking about with white supremacy or white supremacist. So I don't know. I mean I don't know. Did he endorse me or what's going on because, you know, I know nothing about David Duke. I know nothing about white supremacists. And so, you're asking me a question that I'm supposed to be talking
about people. I have to look at the group. I mean, I don't know what group you're talking about. You wouldn't want me to condemn a group that I know nothing about. I have to look. If you would send me a list of the groups, I will do research on them and certainly I would disavow if I thought there was something wrong.
Honestly, I don't know David Duke. I don't believe I've ever met him. I'm pretty sure I didn't meet him, and I just don't know anything about him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: He spent years pushing the racist birther lie that President Barack Obama was not born in this country. And, of course, there's his response to the deadly white supremacist violence in Charlottesville, claiming there were -- his words -- "very fine people on both sides."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: You also had people that were very fine people on both sides. You had people in that group -- excuse me. Excuse me. I saw the same pictures as you did.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[22:10:02] LEMON: So, this is the same president that Sarah Sanders claims has denounced racism, hatred, and bigotry in all forms. The president who hours after pipe bombs were discovered across the country last week tried to blame the victim, the media.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: The media also has a responsibility to set a civil tone and to stop the endless hostility and constant negative and oftentimes false attacks and stories.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: This is a president who upped the ante today, tweeting the outrageous claim that the news media are the enemy of the people. Shortly before the 15th bomb was discovered this morning addressed to CNN in Atlanta, this is a president who minutes after doing the right thing and denouncing the massacre at the Tree of life synagogue as anti-Semitic and pure evil, went on to joke about his hair.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Maybe I should cancel this arrangement because I have a bad hair day. And the bad news, somebody said actually it looks better than it usually does.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Who has families mourned their dead, tweeted about the World Series. This is a president who it seems never misses the opportunity to divide us, to hurl slurs at anybody he sees as a political opponent.
Today he tweeted a racially loaded attack on Florida Democratic gubernatorial candidate Andrew Gillum, calling him a thief with absolutely no evidence to back up the charge. Gillum, the mayor of Tallahassee, fighting back, slamming the president for not having the courage to trash him -- trash talk him directly on Twitter, because he never mentioned his name.
This is a White House that seems to be trying to obscure the fact that those 11 people who were massacred in Pittsburgh were killed in an anti-Semitic attack, not some kind of broader campaign against religion in general.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KELLYANNE CONWAY, WHITE HOUSE SENIOR ADVISOR: The anti-religiosity in this country that is somehow in vogue and funny, to make fun of anybody of faith, to constantly be making fun of people who express religion, the late-night comedians, the unfunny people on TV shows, it's always anti-religious.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Anti-religiosity. Is that going to become the new alternative facts? Anti-religious. What is she talking about? That has nothing to do with anything.
Words matter. It matters what this president says. It matters what the members of his administration say. It matters when their words divide us rather than bring us together. It matters because if you hate one group of Americans, you hate us all. If you hate one, you hate all.
This is a time now for leadership. But the truth is this president will never be a leader on this. Never. Never. Stop looking to him for it. It's not going to happen. Words matter. Words like life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. That is America too. In the midst of such a dark time, we must never forget that is the real America.
A lot to talk about with Rick Wilson, Julia Ioffe, and Adam Serwer, next.
[22:15:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: So, the White House refusing to acknowledge that President Trump's rhetoric fuels the kind of hate behind the deadly attack on the Tree of Life synagogue in Pittsburgh and the pipe bomb sent to prominent Democrats and here to CNN.
Let's discuss now. Rick Wilson is here. He is the author of "Everything Trump Touches Dies." Also with me, Julia Ioffe, and Adam Serwer. Thank you all for joining us.
ADAM SERWER, STAFF WRITER, THE ATLANTIC: Thanks for having us.
LEMON: This is a terribly sad day, sad day followed by a sad weekend, right? Rick, the White House continues to defend the president's rhetoric in the wake of the serial bomber.
RICK WILSON, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Sure.
LEMON: Now the deadliest anti-Semitic attack in U.S. history. Words matter. It doesn't seem -- they don't seem to get that. Why is that?
WILSON: They don't seem to get that because they really understand what he's doing, and this is a feature, not a bug. They're trying -- this isn't some, you know, random set of divisions he's caused just because he's not mindful. This is what he's doing on purpose.
He is dividing this country. He is stimulating the edge cases, the tiny, tiny, tiny fraction that is willing to stand up and listen to these things he says not as rhetoric or throwaway or some jokey Trumpish line that he utters at one of his rally shin digs.
They're looking at -- some of these freaks are looking at this as marching orders. And we're going to see people like that come out of the woodwork over time as the political pressure rises on this man and as his desire to stoke deeper and deeper divisions in this country grows more extreme. And I think as I said, it's going to only -- it only takes a tiny, tiny, minute fraction of these people to listen to the kooky voice in their head from Donald Trump and go out for synagogue. Or send people bombs--
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: So, you're actually telling me they do get it. They get that words matter.
WILSON: Hell, yes, they get it, Don.
LEMON: SO that's even more pernicious, then.
WILSON: Yes, it's an absolute moral vacuum.
LEMON: OK.
WILSON: It's an absolute moral vacuum in this White House, and they're all collaborators.
LEMON: Yes.
Julia, your latest -- very interesting piece in the Washington Post, Julia. By the way, congratulations on that. You write about how much responsibility President Trump bears for the deadly anti-Semitic attack in Pittsburgh, and then you say that Trump sets the tone. He's allowed bigots to go about their business.
JULIA IOFFE, SENIOR WRITER, THE ATLANTIC: Absolutely. I think you can't overestimate the power of the bully pulpit of a president. You know, the things he says and the things he doesn't say and the ways in which he says them, the ways in which he condemns racists where you can see it's so halfhearted. It's like a kid being forced to do something by his parents, and then five minutes later he's joking to his friends or, you know, his tens of millions of followers on Twitter that actually he doesn't care all that much.
[22:20:02] That sets a tone. And, you know, I have to say it's not just, you know, the freaks that Steve mentioned that hear this, pick up an AR-15 that they can buy as easily as they can buy a pack of cigarettes.
LEMON: You mean Rick.
IOFFE: Sorry, Rick. Sorry, sorry. Rick.
LEMON: Yes.
IOFFE: It's also the kind of silent majority of Trump supporters that think this is OK, that continue to support this president despite what he said on -- you know, how many times I've been on the show--
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: You think it's a silent majority of supporters who--
IOFFE: Yes. I think because there's a lot of--
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: Why do you think that?
IOFFE: Because there have been so many moments that we've discussed in the media, like Trump's comments, his moral equivocation after Charlottesville, and by the measure of the past, let's say, several decades, we say this is beyond the pale. There's no way voters would support this. There's no way people would continue supporting Trump after this. And yet they do.
I mean his approval ratings nationally aren't great, but among Republicans, they're sky high after all of this, after his attacks on the media as enemy of the -- enemies of the people, saying there were very fine people among the neo-Nazi and neo-Confederates marching in Charlottesville.
LEMON: Yes.
IOFFE: All of this like, I think that also matters. And as we've seen in some of the darkest chapters in history, that matters as much as the perpetrators. It's the people who turn their gaze, who avert their eyes, and who think, you know, well, at least we're getting our tax cuts.
LEMON: Yes, you hit the nail on the head. If not -- if they don't support it, you said the silent majority they've overlooked it.
(CROSSTALK)
IOFFE: They enable it.
LEMON: They enable because they've overlooked it. They're like, OK, it's all right. Adam, your piece in The Atlantic, you wrote about how a synagogues
gunman, the synagogue gunman took the president's caravan hysteria seriously. Explain to our viewers how you know that this is true, this whole sort of, you know, conspiracy theory they're putting out about the people in the caravan.
SERWER: Well, if you look at his social media before it was taken down, you know, the social media networks, whenever one of these guys turns out to be a killer, they take down their posts, not because -- you know, not because they feel bad about it, but because they're upset that this person -- they're just, you know, covering their own butt.
But as far as how we know, I mean the killer said, you know, HIAS, Hebrew Immigrant Aid Society, formerly known as, brings in invaders who kill our people. Screw your optics. I'm going in. I mean, he might as well have drawn a map. He made it very clear why he was angry at Jewish people, and the reason he was angry was he felt that you know, Jews are bringing in all these, you know, deadly immigrants who are going to murder white people.
And, you know, that's -- you know, the killer did not like Trump. He didn't think Trump was Trumpy enough. But he is echoing Trump's rhetoric on the caravan.
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: Hold on, hold on, Adam, because I want to--
SERWER: Because Trump keeps saying it's full of--
LEMON: It's a good point that you bring up, and I just want to just drill down on that and then let you finish. Because it's not that, you said, it's not Trumpy enough, but I want people to get it. He didn't think that Trump was more radical and stricter on immigration. He wanted him to be, you know, even stricter on immigration. He wanted him to be more--
(CROSSTALK)
SERWER: Well, he thought Trump was soft on Jews.
IOFFE: And not just immigration. On Jews.
LEMON: On Jews. On Jews.
SERWER: On Jews.
LEMON: And if he had been, then he would have liked him.
SERWER: I mean he probably would have liked him more. But it's almost beside the point because what was motivating him according to his own words was this belief about this caravan, which, you know, quite frankly is complete hysteria.
These people are going to come here. They're either going to have an asylum claim or they're not. If their claim is legitimate, they might be able to stay. If not, they'll be turned away. There's no emergency. There's nothing to freak out about.
But the president has inflamed -- has inflamed his supporters by talking about this as a national emergency deliberately. You know, what Rick was talking about earlier, back in the Nixon era Pat Buchanan was the Nixon strategist, he said, you know, we figured that if we divided the country, we'd end up with the larger half.
Now Donald Trump doesn't have the larger half anymore but he an ideally geographically distributed set of hard core supporters who allow him to defy political gravity. Now, we'll see if that continues on Tuesday. But that just is the way it is.
They absolutely know what they're doing. They absolutely know there are consequences for it. And what they've shown, you know, after Saturday, after everything that's happen, they're going to continue doing it. What they've shown is they do not care about the consequences.
LEMON: The president is going -- and the first lady going to Pittsburgh tomorrow. The question is do the folks there want him? That and other subjects when we come back.
[22:25:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Ivanka Trump and Jared Kushner will join the president and the first lady to pay their respects to the victims of the Tree of Life synagogue attack tomorrow, but will the president be back to the same old fiery rhetoric when he hits the campaign trail in the final days before the election?
Back with me, Rick Wilson, Julia Ioffe, and Adam Serwer. So, Julia, the former New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg spoke to CNN. Here's part of that interview.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAEL BLOOMBERG, FORMER NEW YORK CITY MAYOR: The president, who should be unifying, and instead he is exciting people, inciting people. The president's words matter more than anybody else, and his job, I've always thought, is to be a unifier, not to be the leader of a party but to be the leader of this country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Julia, Bloomberg says that Trump should be unifying people, not inciting people. The problem, though, is his entire campaign and now his presidency built on exacerbating and widening divisions.
IOFFE: Yes, like Rick said, it's a feature, not a bug. And, you know, the last couple days I've heard the president's allies say, well, you know, Bernie Sanders was responsible for the shooting of Steve Scalise that summer, and he -- and nobody said this. And, you know, Eric Holder said when they go low, we kick them. And that's -- no. These are people who are political leaders, leaders of their parties,
within their parties and within their bases. Donald Trump is the President of the United States. He's the president of everybody who lives in the United States. And I don't think at any point in his presidency has he really remembered that.
He at every point in his presidency has been the base of this angry -- the president of his base of this angry minority that either is content to avert their gaze and enable this kind of violence and hatred or actively participates in it.
[22:30:06] And he's only happy to because the more he incites them and excites them, as Mayor Bloomberg said, the more they're loyal to him. And again, I think it's crazy, like Rick was saying that -- or I am sorry, that Adam was saying that his base lives in a strategic geography that allows him to defy gravity.
They love this stuff. And that says something really horrible and disheartening about our country, frankly, that nearly half the country thinks this is great and this is just fine.
LEMON: Yeah. Rick, I saw you shaking your head when she mentioned the whole what about-ism of the -- you know, what -- you know, this person said this and Hillary Clinton had said that. And, you know, Eric Holder said that. What do you say?
RICK WILSON, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: You know there has always been aggressive political rhetoric in this country. We all use it. That is a difference, and a distinction between a guy who stands at a rally and says knock the hell out of that guy, or who continues to play footsie with the altright, and who continues to do things by calling the press the enemy of the people. Even today, he tweets again the press is the enemy of the people.
I mean is he not going to be satisfied until someone's killed, because that's what it feels like everyday. And this is a President who abuses the power of his office. He has the title of presidency but never assumes the mantle of the office, never assumes the dignity and the probity and the judgment and the wisdom. There is no better Donald Trump.
Every time you hear words coming out of Donald Trump's mouth that sound like a normal President, that's a speechwriter who briefly puts something in a teleprompter and Trump read it for about 30 seconds. And you always know the real Trump is there. Like as Julia said, this is like a teenager who listens to his parents giving them a lecture and then goes to his friends and says ha-ha-ha, and runs and does the same thing over again.
Because you're going to see tomorrow, a moment he should be dignified. He should be quiet. There should be mourning. There should be seriousness. And I guarantee you he won't last six hours before he tweets some asinine thing again.
LEMON: Or goes to a rally. IOFFE: Can I just add something to what Rick said? You know up until
last week, I would have said, yeah. He continues and has been playing footsie with the altright. Last week, he gave them a really hardy French kiss, frankly, when he said that I know I am not supposed to say this. It's an old-fashioned word, but I am a Nationalist. And they heard it exactly as he meant it.
You know you saw all the alt-right forums saying, he means race. We're so excited. One of them wrote the fire is rising.
LEMON: Yeah. Adam, listen. It's controversial. Some people there want him. As I have been watching the coverage, some people want him to visit Pittsburgh. Others say no, they don't. He's going to visit tomorrow. But then he's also going to do eight states and hold 11 campaign rallies before Election Day. Do you think his words tomorrow, it will mean less if he continues his rhetorical attacks?
ADAM SERWER, STAFF WRITER, THE ATLANTIC: I mean obviously yeah. I do think that. But I will tell you what he shouldn't do. He shouldn't go ahead and all lives matter, the worst anti-semitic attack in American history, the way Kellyanne Conway did, and the way that the administration all lives mattered, the holocaust, in the early days of the administration.
What he should do is he should go there and he should be exactly the opposite of the way Donald Trump is at his rallies, where he picks people to demonize and rhetorically flay alive, you know, for the pleasure of his supporters. And maybe he's capable of performing that for however long he needs to be in Pittsburgh. But I think Rick's ultimately right that, you know, he's going to say something that someone criticizes.
And then he's going to get mad. And he's going to throw the whole thing away. You know I wrote this last week, but the fact is, is that fake Donald Trump is magnanimous, and real Donald Trump is petty. And when he's not being petty, he's not actually being Donald Trump.
LEMON: Thank you all. I don't think we should hold our breath. It's not in him to...
IOFFE: Nope.
LEMON: To do those things. It would be great.
WILSON: There is no better Trump.
IOFFE: There's no teleprompter Trump. Do you remember teleprompter Trump from 2016?
LEMON: Yeah.
IOFFE: It's such a fiction. We know this now. Let's stop.
LEMON: I still remember the Trump that used to criticize Barack Obama for using a teleprompter. Now he doesn't. Thank you guys, appreciate it. SERWER: Thank you.
LEMON: From Commander-In-Chief to Counselor-In-Chief, every President has had to unite the country in times of tragedy. What President Trump could learn from a speech President Kennedy was supposed to deliver on the day he was assassinated.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:35:00] LEMON: America is reeling tonight in the wake of the deadly anti-Semitic attack in Pittsburgh and 15 pipe bombs sent to high profile Democrats and here to CNN, the latest one today. And at this moment, with the country crying out for leadership, there's a lot that this President could learn from those who came before him. So I want to bring in now Presidential historian, Michael Beschloss, Author of Presidents of War, the epic story from 1807 to modern times.
This is a fascinating read and we appreciate you joining us. Thank you so much. You tweeted out something this morning that really helped me, lifted my spirits.
MICHAEL BESCHLOSS, PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: Glad to hear it.
LEMON: This was President Kennedy's final speech. He never got to deliver it because he was assassinated. Will you read what you tweeted this weekend?
BESCHLOSS: Sure. This is a speech he was going to give at a dinner in Austin, Texas, the night of November 22nd, 1963. And it was at a time the country was divided over civil rights, divided over a lot of different issues. And Kennedy understood that a big part of his job was to unite the nation in time of crisis, exactly what we're not seeing with President Trump.
[22:39:59] What he said was neither the fanatics nor the fainthearted are needed. And our duty as a party is not to our party alone but to the nation and indeed to all mankind. He says our duty is not merely the preservation of political power but the preservation of peace and freedom. So he says -- listen to this. He says let us not be petty when our cause is so great. Let us not quarrel amongst ourselves when our nation's future is at stake.
Let us stand together with renewed confidence in our cause, united in our heritage of the past and our hopes for the future, and determine that this land we love shall lead all mankind into new frontiers of peace and abundance. That's it. Those were his last words.
LEMON: Can you imagine, as you were reading that, if at the end of that, you had said President Donald J. Trump?
BESCHLOSS: Not in a million years.
LEMON: But just imagine it may open him up to people who -- but not in a million years. It would never happen. Stop fantasizing. Stop fantasizing. BESCHLOSS: It would never happen. And the problem, you know, is he's a one-trick pony. All he does is divides in order to conquer politically. That's been true throughout his political career since 2015. I think it was true in his life before then. And what he's forgetting is, you know, this is a guy who wears as a badge of honor.
He says I don't read books. I don't read history. Well, OK. But for one result of that is that he doesn't understand what this democracy is.
LEMON: That's obvious, yeah.
BESCHLOSS: And our whole expectation of a President is, yes, he'll be a tough political leader. He will propose things that make a lot of people angry. We understand that. But also what you need from a President, especially during a time of crisis. You were kind enough to mention my book, which is about wars. But this is also true of Presidents through other kind of crisis. We yearn for a President who can unite us, who can heal us, and who can inspire us.
LEMON: Mm-hmm.
BESCHLOSS: Now, any of those words, Don, do you hear any of those things from Donald Trump?
LEMON: No. The answer is no.
BESCHLOSS: That's it.
LEMON: Here's what you also tweeted. You said in 1790, President George Washington wrote to Jewish congregants of Newport, Rhode Island, that the U.S. government gives to bigotry no sanction, adding his hope for Jewish Americans that everyone shall sit in safety with none to make him afraid. That was, what -- that was more than 200 years ago. Still resonates.
BESCHLOSS: Can you imagine at a time that there were not many Jewish Americans? And George Washington was essentially saying you don't have to feel like the other. He was writing to a Jewish congregation in Rhode Island, and you should never have any reason to make you feel afraid. Even what George Washington wrote in 1790, you couldn't imagine coming out of the mouth of Donald Trump and him actually meaning it. And that's a tragedy, and that should make us all very worried.
LEMON: So as someone who studied this stuff, when you have divisive leaders like this in the past, has it continued to divide us, or does it at some point do we say, hey, do most times Americans come back together?
BESCHLOSS: Americans get sick of it. And they demand leaders who do not do this. A mini version of this is midterm election of 1970, right before the election. Richard Nixon was in a rally in San Jose. And there were protesters. And he got up on the hood of his car and he started waving his arms like this, you know, with a V for victory. And the result was that on election eve, the Republicans tried to run as the law and order party, and they didn't do very well.
And afterwards, a lot of Republicans went to the President and said you have to stop this. We go through cycles. People after that did not want -- after Nixon left, did not want leaders like Nixon. And I think with Donald Trump, this keeps on going. You're going to have people get sick of it. And they're going to say we need a leader who can heal us and inspire us and unite us. That may happen as early as 2020.
LEMON: OK. Well, let's talk about what he tweeted today, OK, what the President tweeted today. He says he wants unity. But then he says there's a great anger in our country caused in part by inaccurate and even fraudulent reporting of the news. He goes on to call the media the true enemy of the people. That's not a message of healing and unity is it?
BESCHLOSS: No, and it's not -- it's a message that we never should have heard from him at any time. But can you imagine him saying this, at this time of national tragedy, when most people are hurting and particularly Jewish Americans are hurting. This is not the time for his politics. I mean he always sort of reverts to this whole thing. It's time for me to pit one group against another in American society and try to benefit from it politically.
He's going to visit Pittsburgh tomorrow, and then how many campaign rallies is he going to have?
LEMON: Mm-hmm.
BESCHLOSS: I mean how many Presidents...
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: He's going to do 11 between now and then.
[22:44:58] BESCHLOSS: You know, John Kennedy, Ronald Reagan, how many of them would have gone on with that campaign rally over the weekend just a couple hours after this has happened in Pittsburgh. I thought it was obscene.
LEMON: What can you leave the viewer with in the -- because you said that Americans always want to come together, right? They always reject it in the end. We need some positivity. What can you leave us with?
BESCHLOSS: Here's the positivity. It is deep in our DNA that we look to Presidents. We demand of them that they help to bring this country together, bind the nation's wounds, as Abraham Lincoln said at the end of the Civil War. Presidents who do not do that are going to suffer at the polls. It's just not in Donald Trump's software. So my guess is -- and I think the whole of American history backs this, that Americans are just going to get fed up with this.
LEMON: Yeah.
BESCHLOSS: And we may even see that in a week or so. And you may see a lot of Republican politicians who have gone along with Donald Trump, because they're terrified of him, may suddenly see that they can begin to criticize him in public without fear of losing their jobs.
LEMON: The Presidents of War, Michael Beschloss. And it's doing quite well.
BESCHLOSS: From your lips to God's ear. Thank you, Don.
LEMON: Thank you very much. We appreciate you coming in.
BESCHLOSS: Thank you, wonderful to see you.
LEMON: The far right is on the rise from Brazil to Berlin. But what role does President Trump play in all this?
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[22:50:00] LEMON: As we close in on the final days before the midterms, the President is ramping up his campaign appearances and his rhetoric, proudly embracing the title of Nationalist. But it's not just in this country. Politicians and parties once considered on the far right fringe are gaining power globally. This morning, President Trump tweeted his enthusiasm over a phone call with Brazil's newly elected right-wing President called the Trump of South America.
Former White House Chief Strategist, Steve Bannon, weighed in on the trend saying this. The populist revolt now burns like a prairie fire from Europe to North America to South America. Real change is happening worldwide, whether the establishment party of Davos likes it or not. Joining me now to discuss is CNN National Security Analyst James Clapper, Former Director of National Intelligence. Director, good evening to you, thank you so much for joining us, good to see you in Washington, D.C. Good to have you back.
JAMES CLAPPER, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Good to be back, sort of.
LEMON: I want to get your perspective on this horrible shooting. Do you consider this an act of domestic terror?
CLAPPER: I do. This was a heinous, terrible, despicable thing. And I just -- it was sickening to -- far transcended the, you know, the pipe bomb that was supposed to come my way. This is terrible. I do consider it a form of domestic terrorism.
LEMON: What responsibility do you think the President has for the climate we are in today?
CLAPPER: Well, I think he bears a lot of responsibility for it. And I am quick to say, that as the White House always says, you know, that the President cannot be held responsible for, you know, the pipe bombs or the synagogue's shooting or the shooting of the two African- Americans in a supermarket. But the President occupies the most important bully pulpit, not only in this country, but in the world. And it is -- so if the climate is going to change in this country, it has to start at the top, and that means with him. And so his incendiary rhetoric, which is probably, you know, the real
Donald Trump that we see at rallies and in his tweets, which is so contradictory to teleprompter Trump and the statements which are appropriate. But the problem is he cannot contain himself. And, you know, when he goes extemporaneous, we're seeing -- it's almost worse, you know. To me, it would be better if he were just consistent all the time.
But the inconsistency between statements he reads versus, you know, when he says what's really on his mind, in my mind makes it worse.
LEMON: You know it's not just here in America, where nationalism is on the rise as I said in my introduction to you. Just today, Brazil elected a far right leader, and Germany's Angela Merkel announced that she is not seeking re-election in Germany amid pressure from the right. Does this right-ward shift in other countries threaten the United States?
CLAPPER: Well, it certainly does. I mean let's take Germany as a case in point. You know Germany is a very important ally of the United States. It's a key member of the E.U., the ex-officio leader of Europe just because of the economic power Germany is -- you know has been Angela Merkel. As one who -- and this may be part of her problem with President Trump, is she is very highly regarded by President Obama, who looked to her as his key interlocutor I think in Europe in many respects.
And so now she is under attack from the same populist sort of trends that have taken place in other places like Poland, for example, and now Brazil. And this is reflective I think of a general frustration, anger, fury if you will, of people for traditional government. And that's what's happened in our country, and it's happening in other places.
[22:55:08] And, of course, again, this is another assault on the liberal Democratic order that the United States has led since the end of World War II.
LEMON: Yeah. Last November, the House Intel Committee released a series of ads shared on Facebook linked to a Russian company tied to the Kremlin just before the 2016 election. And here's one, showing a no invaders allowed sign posted at the United States border, and then this one showing two women in Burqas. It says stop all invaders.
What does it say to you that President Trump is echoing the same message as Russian trolls who were actively working to divide the American electorate? What does it say that he's using the same thing?
CLAPPER: Well, this is a very disturbing thing for me. And it's one of the reasons I wrote my book, is because of this confluence of things that President Trump espouses, which the Russians exploit. So to the extent that he fuels divisiveness and polarization in this country, the Russians have and will continue to capitalize on that, because that serves their purpose by weakening this country, by emphasizing, reinforcing in whatever they can, exploiting the polarization and divisiveness that exists. And so it's very disturbing to me, just speaking personally, to see
those two -- those themes, those espoused by the President, those espoused by Russia be congruent. That's very disturbing.
LEMON: Director Clapper, always a pleasure. Thank you, sir.
CLAPPER: Thanks, Don.
LEMON: Tonight, the country is mourning the victims of the worst anti-Semitic attack in American history. I am going to speak to the former rabbi of the Tree of Life Synagogue next.
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