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Don Lemon Tonight

Trump Going After His Enemy; Jeff Sessions Out as Attorney General; Acting Attorney General Matt Whitaker Taking Over the Robert Mueller Investigation; Donald Trump Publicly Lashing Out. Aired 10-11p ET

Aired November 07, 2018 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(JOINED IN PROGRESS)

[22:00:00] CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST: Thank you for watching. "CNN TONIGHT" with D. Lemon right now. Right by my side.

DON LEMON, CNN HOST CNN: If you thought it was crazy and unprecedented before, wait till now, now that the Democrats have control of Congress.

CUOMO: I'm hoping for better.

LEMON: You actually think it's going to get better?

CUOMO: Yes. And I know you're going to rain on my parade.

LEMON: Well, I wouldn't ask you--

CUOMO: I know. I knew it was loaded when you asked it.

LEMON: In a divided nation as divided as people are, do you think--

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: And that was proof positive last night.

LEMON: Yes.

CUOMO: We watched in real-time together, and that was awesome, something I'll never forget. We are very divided and we're moving further in opposite directions.

LEMON: Yes.

CUOMO: But a balance of power can be good. They know a lot of people will come out and vote. I'm telling you, politicians play scared.

LEMON: That's the good part, the balance of power. And people want -- listen, no matter who is in charge, if it's the Democrats are in charge or the Republicans in charge, you want a check on the system of power. That's what we do in a sense. So, you want a check on that.

But I think that we have become so divided that this is just going to lead to gridlock. I think the Democrats and, in some ways, rightfully so will demand answers for a Congress that has pretty much just been a check on whatever this administration--

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: True.

LEMON: -- wants to do.

CUOMO: But they got to balance deal making opportunities with ball breaking opportunities.

LEMON: Yes.

CUOMO: If they're just a hammer the whole time, they won't get anything done.

LEMON: Yes. But do you say, this president before, remember he said, well, my tone could have been better. Do you actually think he wants to sit down with Nancy Pelosi, who he demonizes all the time, Maxine Waters, who he demonizes all the time, Adam Schiff who he criticizes? Do you actually think he wants to sit down with those people and make deals and have his base say he is making deals with what he calls the swamp or the elites?

CUOMO: Right. Yes. No. No. And yes. Yes to Pelosi. No to Waters. No to Schiff because he'll know she'll be the powerful one. And, yes, he wants to make deals, and he'll say to the base, I get it done even with these bastards.

LEMON: Yes. Even a wall?

CUOMO: I think that a wall is going to be a defined term. He thinks they're building the wall right now and they're not.

LEMON: They're not.

CUOMO: They're repairing fencing.

LEMON: They're repairing.

CUOMO: The balance of power is a great thing. People want a check. They want opposites. That's why we both get invited to the party. They bring you there for the looks and the style, in my case, there's trouble.

LEMON: Well, I wouldn't be so high on you, but what you said is--

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: Well, I know you. So, I had to speak my piece. (Inaudible) any love for you.

LEMON: So, what I said was absolutely right. You're right. We got to watch it in real-time last night, and I thought it was fantastic. A lot of races were not even close. Some of them are not called now.

CUOMO: True. LEMON: But I have to say it's great for the country. I think both political parties. It's a win for both political parties.

CUOMO: Hundred percent.

LEMON: We say that last night. The Democrats picked up a great number of seats. Towards the beginning I was a little surprised by the tone and the consternation of people saying, my gosh, you know, this is terrible. We don't -- it wasn't terrible for either party.

CUOMO: Right.

LEMON: It wasn't terrible.

CUOMO: There was something for everybody. People wanted bigger numbers. Why? Because we like extremes when we cover things. But people came out. You may have had historic turnout in a midterm. That's an unqualified good.

LEMON: You had Ayanna Pressley on earlier. And have spoken a very impressive. I have a young lady on tonight who is one of two Native- American candidates who won. There are a lot of firsts, especially for women. And if you look at some of the places that maybe -- Georgia has not been called yet -- where people may perceive them as losses, they're losses because they didn't get into office, but they're real wins I think for this country when it comes to diversity.

You have a woman of color in Georgia, who could be governor, or may love it. Who knows? Had the opportunity pretty close to flipping a red state to blue. You had a man of color down in Florida flipping a red state to blue. And then you have a young, vibrant person in Texas flipping a red state to blue.

CUOMO: Almost.

LEMON: Almost. But that's what I'm saying. Almost flipping it.

CUOMO: Right.

LEMON: That's progress, I think.

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: It shows that it's closer together.

LEMON: Yes.

CUOMO: I think there's a lot of division, but there's also common ground, and people all want better.

LEMON: Yes. I got a lot of folks sitting here tonight.

CUOMO: I know much better than me. I don't know why you're wasting time with me. They're jealous, your panel.

(CROSSTALK) LEMON: Laura Coates is like, doing this. Hurry up, I need to talk.

CUOMO: I know. She's like, why are you talking to this.

LEMON: Good to see you.

CUOMO: Thanks for last night. Be well.

LEMON: By the way, there's our panel. You saw them. Thank you. Thank you, Chris. See you later.

Good evening, everyone. This is CNN TONIGHT. I'm Don Lemon. Thank you so much for joining us.

President Trump is showing you just how rattled he is right now.

On the day he purged a top member of his administration and basically threw a 90-minute temper tantrum in the White House news conference, only hours after his party lost control of the house, he fired Jeff Sessions. Except the man famous for saying you're fired for pretend on television apparently couldn't say it himself.

So, here's what he does. He orders John Kelly to fire Sessions. He's the chief of staff. Something the president has wanted to do ever since Sessions recused himself from the Russia investigation.

And now the former attorney general, who was the first senator to support Trump's campaign, reportedly wanted to stay just until the end of the week. But Kelly told him that he had to go, and he had to do it today.

[22:05:01] So take a look at these pictures now. It's quite the photo op, isn't it? Sessions leaving the Justice Department tonight to applause from his colleagues. Colleagues who are telling CNN that they learned about Sessions' firing from news reports and, of course, a tweet from the president. It's a pattern.

Sessions leaving with his replacement looking on. There's his replacement right there. See that guy? We'll talk about him. He's the acting attorney general, now acting attorney general. His name is Matt Whitaker. He has oversight of the Russia investigation.

I want you to pay close attention to this, all right? This is what Matt Whitaker, this is what he told me in July of 2017 when he was a CNN legal commentator. Here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MATTHEW WHITAKER, FORMER U.S. ATTORNEY: I can see a scenario where Jeff Sessions is replaced with a recess appointment, and that attorney general doesn't fire Bob Mueller, but he just reduces the budget so low that his investigation grinds to almost a halt.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: So, we know Matt Whitaker here. We've had him on the show a number of times around that time. Another guest who was on that -- this show, who actually on this show, who actually was on set with Whitaker on June 19th -- there's a photo right there -- he posted this on Twitter today.

This is from Attorney John Q. Barrett about a conversation he says that he had in the green room before their joint appearance. OK. He says "Whitaker told me in June of 2017 that he was flying out from Iowa to NYC to be on CNN regularly because he was hoping to be noticed as a Trump defender and, through that, to get a Trump judicial appointment back in Iowa."

So much to talk about with that, because he's not the only one who did it. Fake news, but they want to be on this fake news so that the president can notice them. So that really means it fake if you want to be on so the president can notice. More proof though I say that the president watches me every night.

So, the man who is now in charge of the Russia investigation offered a blueprint for cutting the legs out from under that investigation nearly a year and a half ago. Seems tailor made to appeal to this president, and he did it on television according to John Q. Barrett, apparently deliberately in order to appeal to this president and get a job.

He became the chief of staff for Jeff Sessions a couple months later, and now he is the most powerful law enforcement officer in the United States. Look at the power I have, everybody. Can you believe that? Unbelievable.

A source close to President Trump telling CNN the idea of Whitaker ending or suppressing the Russia investigation, not an option right now. I don't know why anyone -- why anyone would believe that or how long that will remain the case. But that's what they are telling us. So, listen to what the president said during his news conference just today. Here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I could fire everybody right now, but I don't want to stop it because politically I don't like stopping it. But you're right. I could end it right now. I could say that investigation is over.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Sounds like a threat, does it? So, let's talk about that post- midterm news conference like nothing we have seen before. Remember when President Obama admitted that his party had gotten a shellacking. That's the word he used. Remember when George W. Bush said he had gotten a thumping. None of that for President Trump. You just heard him threatening the Mueller investigation. He also threatened reporters as well.

So, this is an angry exchange with CNN's Jim Acosta, NBC's Peter Alexander full of down and dirty personal insults simply because reporters are trying to do their jobs, which is to ask the president questions.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I tell you what, CNN should be ashamed of itself having you working for them. You are a rude, terrible person. You shouldn't be working for CNN. Go ahead.

JIM ACOSTA, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: I think that's unfair--

(CROSSTALK)

TRUMP: You're a very rude person. The way you treat Sarah Huckabee is horrible and the way you treat other people is horrible. You shouldn't treat people that way. Go ahead. Peter, go ahead.

PETER ALEXANDER, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, NBC: In Jim's defense, I've traveled with him in Washington. He's a diligent reporter who--

(CROSSTALK)

TRUMP: I'm not a big fan of yours either, so.

ALEXANDER: I understand.

TRUMP: To be honest with you.

ALEXANDER: So, let me ask you a question if I can. Mr. President, you repeatedly said--

(CROSSTALK)

TRUMP: You are the best.

ALEXANDER: Mr. President, you repeatedly over the course--

(CROSSTALK)

TRUMP: OK. Just sit down, please.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: I couldn't be a White House correspondent. They would have kicked me out a long time ago. And there's more. The president refused to answer a question from April Ryan.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Sit down, please. Sit down. I didn't call you. I didn't call you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: April is going to be here later on in this show. I want to hear from her.

[22:09:58] The president calling a question from PBS Yamiche Alcindor, who is African-American, falsely claiming her question racist.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

YAMICHE ALCINDOR, REPORTER, PBS: On the campaign trail, you called yourself a nationalist. Some people saw that as emboldening white nationalists. Now people are also saying that the--

(CROSSTALK)

TRUMP: I don't know why you'd say that. That's such a racist question.

ALCINDOR: There are some people--

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: There was nothing racist about that question, nothing at all. The president could have just answered, could have tried to explain his position. Instead, what do you do? That old tactic. When you can't really explain it, you attack the person who is doing it. He attacked the reporter.

But the president did, he did just target -- did not just target reporters today. He also threatened Democrats if they step up their oversight of the White House, which is their job.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: But they can play that game, but we can play it better because we have a thing called the United States Senate.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: He even threatened candidates from his own party who made the fatal mistake of not wanting Trump to campaign for them.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: You had some that decided to let's stay away. Let's stay away. They did very poorly. I'm not sure that I should be happy or sad, but I feel just fine about it. Carlos Curbelo, Mike Coffman. Too bad, Mike. Mia Love gave me no love, and she lost. Too bad. Sorry about that, Mia.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: That's the president. The fact is Mia Love did not lose her race. It's still too close to call. Facts don't seem to matter much to this president. What matters to him is winning, adoration. When he doesn't get both, he lashes out.

Lots to talk about. Laura Coates is here, Evan Perez, Ryan Lizza, as well. We're going to dig into that, all of it, next.

[22:15:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK) LEMON: Just hours after Republicans lost control of the House, President Trump fired attorney General Jeff Sessions and installed Mathew Whitaker as acting A.G. Whitaker now controls Robert Mueller's Russia investigation after openly criticizing it in the past.

And sources tell CNN Trump views Whitaker as a loyalist. So, is the president moving to control, to derail or end the Mueller investigation? I think we all know the answer to that.

Laura Coates, Evan Perez, and Ryan Lizza. Good evening. We know the answer. Thank you. Good night, right? So, in firing Sessions, Evan, is the president trying to interfere with the Mueller investigation?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: I think that's the big concern, and I think the president deliberately chose someone who he knows. He, I'm sure, Don, was watching your program the night when Matt Whitaker was saying these things. And I think it's no mistake that he chose Matt Whitaker to run this investigation.

Now the question is what does Whitaker do, right? He now has full control of this investigation. He will make the decisions on whether or not there is any big investigative moves, subpoenas, whether, you know, anything that any part of this report that Mueller is preparing -- whether any of it gets to see the light of day. There's a lot of big, important decisions that are now firmly in Matt Whitaker's hands, and I think the president trusts Matt Whitaker more than he trusts anyone else.

LEMON: And just for the explanation, people will say -- and we talked about that -- what happened to Rod Rosenstein? Well, Rod Rosenstein was only in charge because Jeff Sessions had recused himself.

PEREZ: Right.

LEMON: So now the person who is the attorney general or the acting attorney general is actually now back in charge of the Russia investigation. Can this be seen as anything else, Laura, as trying to restrict, constrict, shut down the Mueller investigation?

LAURA COATES, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: I don't think so. I think that this is very clear and transparent, that the president of the United States essentially killed two birds with one stone. He was not happy with Jeff Sessions. He's been very vocal about that for more than a year. He has been emasculating him politically. He's been vilifying him over Twitter and in actual press conferences for quite some time.

But he was very cautious not to fire Mueller because there would be obvious political consequences, particularly during the midterm elections. So now he can say, I didn't fire Mueller. I didn't touch Mueller. I also didn't touch Rod Rosenstein. I have no issue with him following the New York Times revelation that maybe the 25th amendment being talked about or him wearing a wire.

I'm just going to replace the person who made it possible that Rod Rosenstein would have his position and Mueller would have oversight by that person. And so, by putting Matthew Whitaker in the position, which by the way

is not in line of succession. It would naturally go to the deputy attorney general, Rod Rosenstein, then to a solicitor general. The chief of staff or the A.G. is not the person who is supposed to be in line.

And so, one has to first wonder by what authority he's going to put him there. But the president already told us he's temporary. He'll have a more permanent placement put there in the long run. So, I'm wondering if in many ways this is the president's attempt to gain information about the investigation.

So, once he's downloaded everything and debriefed from Robert Mueller and then he walks away to have a permanent replacement who is Senate- confirmed come in, well, guess what Donald Trump has? He's got the keys to the castle.

LEMON: That's what the first thing I thought about today. To get as much information and get his hands on as many levers as possible so that when the Congress actually takes over, he will have all the information he needs and when the report actually comes out, he'll have everything he needs. It's amazing. Go on.

RYAN LIZZA, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: No, I was just going to say that the idea that an acting anyone should exercise authority over something as controversial as this really would be unprecedented.

LEMON: Do you think he should recuse?

LIZZA: Well, I don't know that he should recuse. But he should basically freeze things where they are. When you are in as important a position as the attorney general of the United States and you are not confirmed by the United States senate, you don't monkey around with anything. I don't care if you're at the Department of Interior or any other department. And this is why Congress exists. They need to step up and set some parameters for him.

LEMON: What about the--

(CROSSTALK)

LIZZA: And force Trump to appoint a permanent attorney general.

LEMON: You actually think Congress is going to do that?

LIZZA: Well--

LEMON: And anybody here think here?

LIZZA: But someone who is not confirmed by the U.S. Senate is going to go in and mess around with this investigation?

LEMON: Let me ask you this.

LIZZA: That would be an abuse of power. LEMON: Let me ask you this before we go back to the other, guys. What

about the timing here, right? Because on the day that he -- the day after he loses control of the Congress, he makes this decision.

[22:20:03] LIZZA: Yes.

LEMON: He could have done it before. He could have done it anytime. He could do it a week from now. What does the timing say about you?

LIZZA: I think--

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: Does he try to change the news cycle as more towards what Laura said?

LIZZA: Well, he's got past the midterm. There's no immediate political ramifications anymore. He obviously thought that there could be some blowback if he had done it before the midterms and that he decided to do it once the voters had said what they're going to say.

LEMON: Yes.

LIZZA: I mean, that's very clear.

LEMON: How does this affect -- because we talked about Rosenstein no longer in charge unless the scenario plays out like he, like Ryan says. But how does this affect Rosenstein?

PEREZ: Well, I mean I think Rod Rosenstein now wonders whether there's any reason for him to stay. I mean, one of the reasons why Rosenstein has been sitting there is simply to protect this investigation. Now it is completely out of his hands. And so now we're starting to watch the doors. You know, it's like one of those things that we've been waiting to see what happens to Sessions.

Now we're looking at the exits to see when Rosenstein heads for them because there's really no reason for him to stay now, you know, in this place.

Keep in mind behind the scenes, Whitaker and Rosenstein, there's been a bit of a tension there because Whitaker has been behind the scenes, essentially gunning for these jobs. And there's a lot of distrust about, you know, behind the scenes for Whitaker and what role he's been playing with the White House. So I think that if you're Rosenstein, it's not clear that you want to stay around for this.

LEMON: The ambition here, my gosh. There's so much ambition.

PEREZ: It's the experience.

LEMON: My gosh.

COATES: It is. There's no clear regulation, though, that says that Rod Rosenstein can have no part whatsoever going forward in the investigation. Now, realistically you're absolutely correct. If you're Matt Whitaker it is a sort of, scissor-like--

(CROSSTALK)

PEREZ: But he's in charge now. He's the boss.

COATES: Why do you want the person, why do you want the person whose shoes you're trying to fill to still walk around the room? You probably do not.

PEREZ: You're not. Right.

COATES: But technically he could still be informative. And I also think though, the same way that we anticipated this, this is not necessarily the biggest shock to anyone that Jeff Sessions is no longer in the Department of Justice.

LIZZA: Yes.

COATES: Robert Mueller has this baked into the cake already. I'm certain that he's anticipated that there was going to be a time and deadline when his grand jury were no longer be in panel--

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: Are you talking about sealed indictments?

COATES: It could be sealed indictments. It could be just the idea of having -- remember the last indictments that came out that weren't sealed involving Russian nationals had people who were anonymous, but Roger Stone talked about, I think it's me, as American citizens who somehow were complicit in the collusion or at least in facilitating different discussions.

And so, he already anticipated and knows that. I suspect that he was trying to honor that DOJ regulation about not trying to interfere with an election, although he didn't have to. There's no one on the ballot who is a part of the campaign. But now he, I'm sure, anticipated this.

LEMON: Is that southern district of New York move -- was that pretty smart move, pretty--

(CROSSTALK)

COATES: Well, I think, though, and you talked about this as well, Evan, in the past. The notion that he, in anticipation, has been farming out cases.

PEREZ: He has, right.

COATES: And one of them of course is this SDNY in Michael Cohen case which he--

(CROSSTALK)

PEREZ: And we're told that there are others that have been sent -- you know, one of the things that Mueller has done is farmed out parts of his investigation to other places. You can cut -- look, you can shut down Mueller. You can't shut down the entire Justice Department.

COATES: Right.

LEMON: Right.

PEREZ: So that is part of the contingency. And the other part of the contingency is simply protecting the evidence in this investigation, which we know Rosenstein and top officials at the Justice Department and the FBI have discussed.

LEMON: Yes.

PEREZ: So, they are doing what they can to protect this investigation.

LEMON: I want you guys to listen to something the president said at his presser today. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Going back to the Russia investigation and the potential investigations from the now Democratically -- Democratic majority in Congress, some say that you could stop all this by declassifying--

(CROSSTALK)

TRUMP: I could. I could fire everybody right now. But I don't want to stop it--

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What about the--

TRUMP: Because politically I don't like stopping it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

TRUMP: It's a disgrace. It should have never been started because there was no crime. It is -- everybody has conflicts. They all have conflicts over there that are beyond anything that anybody's ever seen in terms of conflicts.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: So, he says that he could fire everybody right now. Is he right, though, Ryan? I mean because he has a stronger majority in the Senate.

LIZZA: I mean he could. He could fire everyone. He is the president of the United States, right? But what's always prevented him from taking that action, that's the one red line he wouldn't cross because enough Republicans piped up and told him not to do it. Now, in the last two years, a lot of those--

(CROSSTALK) LEMON: We heard their responses today. They're pretty tepid.

(CROSSTALK)

LIZZA: Well, they've retreated.

LEMON: Yes.

LIZZA: And they retreated. He used to have someone like Lindsey Graham who was a hawk on this, right. Remember when Lindsey Graham in 2017 said he would ruin Trump's presidency.

LEMON: That was Lindsey 2017.

PEREZ: Exactly.

LIZZA: So, some of those voices have retreated. Trump now has a stronger -- slightly stronger majority in the Senate. He's always been hemmed in. He's always just not been willing to pull the trigger of just shutting down the investigation unilaterally.

[22:25:02] I still don't think he'll do it because it's -- I think he has people around him explaining just politically it's still not the smartest thing to do.

(CROSSTALK)

PEREZ: Look, his legal team believes that they're very close to the finish line, that they're very close to the end of Mueller. Why do this now?

LIZZA: Yes.

PEREZ: And I think they do believe that things are wrapping up. And so, I think what they'd rather do is this, which is to have someone that they trust more--

LEMON: Yes.

PEREZ: -- who will handle the final result.

LEMON: What's interesting to me is that he did this. He knew what he was going to do. He was at the press conference, right, and he said all these things, whatever. And he knew what he was going to do after this press conference.

PEREZ: Yes.

LEMON: He knew that the resignation--

(CROSSTALK)

PEREZ: It had been done actually.

LEMON: Yes. That it was going to be done. What do you think of that? What do you quote from that? COATES: I think that he was trying to use the focus group and trying to threaten people to show how much power he had and to promise and then fulfill a promise like he does so often, he says, on the campaign trail.

I did also notice that the letter from Jeff Sessions was not dated. Now, I know that everyone says he was aware of this prior to the press conference through the telephone call with General Kelly. But I suspect Jeff Sessions has had a resignation letter prepared for quite some time in anticipation of this.

But I think what he was trying to do was to show everything that he was powerful in the one area where he has the most apparent Achilles' heel. Nancy Pelosi and the House Democrats are well aware of their subpoena power. They actually had, what, 50 subpoenas ready to go from Elijah Cummings before this months ago, that the Republicans who were in control refused to either issue or compel compliance with in many ways.

They're well aware that they don't have to take the bait, but the president was trying to cast that line and show how powerful he was. And all he really did, in many ways, through the exploration of all of this is to show he has a lot of bark, but the teeth now belong in the House.

LEMON: Yes. I just thought it was interesting and I'm paraphrasing the letter. Basically, he was saying, when you told me to pretend, I'm resigning--

(CROSSTALK)

COATES: Right.

PEREZ: Right.

LEMON: But you fired me.

COATES: Yes.

LEMON: This is the letter. This is my resignation.

LIZZA: But we all knew this was going to happen.

LEMON: Yes, of course.

(CROSSTALK)

LIZZA: It was telegraphed.

LEMON: No.

LIZZA: Lindsey Graham talked about it, I mean.

LEMON: We had been reporting that he had been threatened to do this. But what's interesting is that when we reported that, what was it? Fake news, right? PEREZ: Right.

LEMON: That it was fake news.

PEREZ: Yes.

LEMON: Everyone knew it was going to happen, but not like the second after the midterms.

COATES: This is the shortest victory lap I've ever seen someone take after the midterms.

LEMON: Yes.

COATES: I mean, in reality he could have taken a much more extended victory lap of the accomplishment that he actually had.

LEMON: Yes.

COATES: Gone for all of his own doing.

LEMON: Thank you. Thank you, all. I appreciate it.

You want to know what Mathew Whitaker thinks about Robert Mueller's investigation? Well, we've got the receipts for you. Whitaker in his own words next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[22:30:01] LEMON: All right. I want everyone to pay real close attention to this next segment, because I think you're going to learn a lot about what's going on here, because Jeff Sessions is out as the Attorney General. Now, Acting Attorney General Matt Whitaker is taking charge of Robert Mueller's investigation from Rod Rosenstein. Whitaker is a man who has been very critical of the Special Counsel. Listen to what he said on this show in 2017.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WHITAKER: I could see a scenario where Jeff Sessions is replaced with a recess appointment, and that Attorney General doesn't fire Bob Mueller, but he just reduces the budget so low that his investigation grinds to almost at a halt.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: So Whitaker also argued that Rosenstein should limit the scope of Mueller's investigation in an August 2017 op-ed for CNN.com. This was the title of it. The title was Mueller's Investigation of Trump is Going Too Far. And it said in part in that op-ed, it said any investigation into President Trump's finances or the finances of his family would require Mueller to return to Rod Rosenstein for additional authority under Mueller's appointment as Special Counsel.

If he were to continue to investigate the financial relationships without a broadened scope in his appointment, then this would raise serious concerns that the Special Counsel's investigation was a mere witch hunt. That's a quote from the op-ed, OK? Witch hunt. Where have we heard that before? Also last summer, Whitaker tweeted his approval of an NPR article suggesting that the public might never learn Mueller's findings because the Attorney General could simply decline to release his report.

And he wrote this, he said article is correct. It will be very difficult to ever see evidence discovered by a Mueller grand jury investigation, OK? Whitaker also weighing in on allegations of Mueller conflicts of interest. Here's what he said to Anderson.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Bob Mueller does have ethical duties as an admitted lawyer to practice law, and so did Jim Comey. So there are other rules in addition to the DOJ rules and regulations. And if Bob Mueller had these conflicts, which were described in the beginning of this segment, that could raise some situations that I hope he's analyzed before he accepted this position.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: OK. So he said that. He has repeatedly argued that President Trump's firing of FBI Director James Comey was not obstruction of justice. This is what he said. It was a radio interview after Comey testified before Congress.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There is no criminal obstruction of justice charge to be had here. There's just -- the evidence is weak. No reasonable prosecutor would bring a case on what we know right now. And, you know, because it all boils down to what was the President's intent. And we really don't have any evidence of what the President's intent was.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: So remember that infamous Trump tower meeting, 2016, June of 2016? He weighed in on that, the one with Don Junior, Jared Kushner, and others. They met with a Russian lawyer with ties to Putin.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think, you know, sort of to suggest that there's a conspiracy here, I mean you would always take that meeting.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[22:34:43] LEMON: So it's also worth noting that Whitaker has personal ties to one of the witnesses in the Mueller investigation. He was the campaign chairman for Sam Clovis' 2014 bid for State Treasurer in Iowa. Clovis has been interviewed by Mueller's team, testified before the grand jury. And according to the Washington Post, Clovis was also lifted as an unnamed campaign supervisor in the indictment of former Trump campaign aide George Papadopoulos. So as we all know, the President has railed against Mueller's

investigation from the very beginning, calling it a hoax, a witch hunt 160 times since last spring. Trump has even floated the idea of actually firing the Special Counsel. Over a year ago, I asked Whitaker whether the President would actually go through with that, and here's what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MATTHEW WHITAKER, FORMER U.S. ATTORNEY: I don't. It will be a spectacular -- we will spend a lot of time talking about this if and when he does. But I think this President puts these things out there into the ether of politics to see what the commentators and the rest of the folks think and respond, and then ultimately makes his decisions, I think, based on that feedback.

(CROSSTALK)

WHITAKER: This is -- I don't think there's a single person that's heard this today that hasn't been -- that's a little ill-advised, I think, would be a proper term.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Hmm. It's also important to note that Kellyanne Conway also said today that Trump won't fire Mueller. Who knows if she is right? What we do know is the man he appointed to oversee Mueller's investigation has repeatedly criticized the investigation that he will now be overseeing. Is this all just a slow-moving Saturday night massacre? Nixon White House Counsel John Dean weighs in. He's next.

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[22:40:00] LEMON: So the Democrats are calling Acting Attorney General Matt Whitaker to recuse himself, calling on him to recuse himself from the Russia investigation. But are Whitaker's critical comments about that investigation actually the reason the President chose him in the first place? I want to discuss this now with Mr. John Dean, the Former White House Counsel to -- a Former White House Counsel.

Thank you so much, so good to have you on this evening and every single night. I got to ask you a question before we get started, right? Because they were saying it was a resignation. He resigned. So if your resignation reads, John, at your request, I am submitting my resignation, what does that mean?

JOHN DEAN, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: It's not unlike my resignation where the President requested it and accepted it, and I was the last to learn that he had done either.

LEMON: Yeah. That means you're fired, right?

DEAN: That's exactly what it means.

LEMON: Yeah. DEAN: In fact, the press room actually put out the word that all of

us had been fired.

LEMON: Yeah. You say that Trump's firing of Jeff Sessions seemed to be like a -- planned like a murder. Explain that.

DEAN: Well, as I watched him today at the press conference where he clearly dodged the question of something that was on his mind because it happens a couple hours later, and it has been very carefully plotted. And what also had happened is Whitaker just didn't appear out of nowhere. This is the scenario they had originally planned for Rosenstein, to replace him -- is to have Whitaker become the Deputy Attorney General.

That plan, after the President and the Deputy Attorney General started getting along then got escalated today. And as I say, it was carefully planned. And Whitaker was ready to step in. He had just the right credentials under the Federal Vacancy Act. So they'd studied that. They obviously had gotten an opinion out of the White House counsel.

And they knew exactly what they were doing, as I said earlier, which is planned like a murder.

LEMON: I want to read a quote from Michael Beschloss, the Presidential Historian, OK, John. He says if this is going the way it looks, this is 10 times worse than Nixon. Is he right?

DEAN: I think he is. We -- one of the things we know about Nixon today is that he did collude with a foreign government to get his presidency. That happened during the 68 campaign. That was something that was buried and kept buried during the totality of his presidency, and only a couple of years ago did we learn that.

What makes this bad is the degree with which the plotting and the actions are being undertaken, the scheming that's going on to try to undercut a very legitimate, first of all, counterintelligence investigation and then a related criminal investigation.

LEMON: Mm-hmm. So do you see this as -- how do I say it -- a slow moving Saturday night massacre? And if you can explain a little bit -- Saturday night massacre is referring to the Nixon times. But go on -- Watergate.

DEAN: That was the firing -- that was the firing of Archibald Cox, the special prosecutor who refused to stand down when Nixon asked him to in appealing to a court to get a decision favorable to get the tapes from Nixon. And when Cox refused to stand down and held a press conference as to why, Nixon called his Attorney General and asked him to fire the special prosecutor.

The Attorney General, Elliott Richardson, who had pledged not to do that before the Senate Judiciary Committee when he was confirmed, turned to his Deputy Attorney General, and he refused to do it. And the only person who those two men convinced to do it was the Solicitor General, Robert Bork, who did execute the President's order. LEMON: So is this a slow-moving one?

[22:39:49] DEAN: This is -- this appears to be a slow-moving one. I don't know that Trump will go so far as to remove Mueller. You know there are a number of members of the Senate on the Republican side who have said that's a step too far. Mitt Romney, who is now in the Senate, said it during the campaign. Lamar Alexander has said it. Not just those who are on their way out the door have said it.

So it's very possible that Trump knows he's playing high risk if he ever were to go that far. And I think he -- what the plan may be, as was said by Matt Whitaker, that you can do a slow death by cutting off his funding.

LEMON: Yeah.

DEAN: Cutting off his resources, cutting down his staff, and giving him some turndowns on his prosecutorial choice.

LEMON: Squeeze the life out of the investigation. Thank you, John Dean. I appreciate it always. Thank you so much.

DEAN: Thanks, Don.

LEMON: Can the new Democratic majority in the House -- can they do anything to protect Robert Mueller? I am going to ask Congressman Ted Lieu, who serves on the judiciary committee, next.

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[22:45:00] LEMON: So the firing of the Attorney General Jeff Sessions comes just hours after Democrats won control of the House, giving them power to block parts of the President's agenda. But can they do anything to protect Robert Mueller? Democratic Congressman Ted Lieu is here to discuss and sits on the House Judiciary Committee. So my -- good evening by the way. So can you do anything to protect Mueller?

REP. TED LIEU (D), CALIFORNIA: Thank you, Don, for your question. Yes, we're already sending out letters to various government officials asking them to preserve their documents. We want to make sure there's no shredding happening or getting rid of documents prior to the transition. Because come January, we can get subpoena power. We can subpoena relevant documents, subpoena witnesses.

And it's really too late for Donald Trump to put the horse back in the barn. The investigation has gone on for far too long. And Democrats can also do our own investigations once January starts.

LEMON: So what do you say to people? Because there are a lot of people in the country, both Democrats and Republicans who are concerned about what's happening here, that the law -- the law is not being followed in a sense. That's their concern.

(CROSSTALK) LIEU: People absolutely should be concerned. Donald Trump fired Jeff

Sessions for one reason, because if you look at Jeff Sessions' policies, they were in lock step with Donald Trump. They only disagreed on Russian investigation. So the only reason he fired Jeff Sessions was to put in someone who would interfere with the Special Counsel's investigation.

That looks awfully a lot like obstruction of justice. The same way firing James Comey was obstruction of justice.

LEMON: So then the Congress, both chambers of Congress, both chambers of Congress, meaning the Senate and Congress, haven't had many checks on this President basically on this administration basically. He's able to, with a blank, be check able to do whatever he wants to do. So what do you say to the folks who say hey, they're not going to do anything differently than they've been doing over the last couple of years?

LIEU: That's one reason Democrats had a blue wave in the House of Representatives last night. People wanted to put in a check and balance on the President of the United States and his administration. Come January, the House of Representatives is going to be a coequal branch of government. We're going to act like it and we're going to make sure we hold Donald Trump and his administration accountable.

And it's also important to understand that with subpoena power, we can get relevant documents. We can subpoena relevant witnesses. So we can continue any investigation that Donald Trump tries to arbitrarily stop.

LEMON: Does that mean more investigations? Does that mean reopening the Congressional investigation into Russia?

LIEU: Well, it's certainly going to -- that's a great question you asked, because I was just on a conference call earlier today on what we're going to do. We're going to meet next week as a caucus and meet with folks on the committee to prioritize the investigations we do, do. But we're also going to look at ways of working with the President on moving America forward.

So we're happy to work with the President on issues like infrastructure, on covering pre-existing conditions, reducing healthcare costs. So we can do both. We can have a positive agenda and also hold the President and his administration accountable.

LEMON: After all the animus over the past couple of years, especially with the Democrats in calling people names, personal names (Inaudible). Do you actually really think that this President is going to work with you?

LIEU: I think it's possible. In his press conference today, he did talk about that quite a bit. And he also understands power. The Democrats now control the House of Representatives. We have the power to stop stupid legislation. We can advance positive legislation. We also have subpoena power. So I think there is a big incentive for the President, as he said in his words, to make deals with the Democrats. LEMON: Do you think that was part of the reason for his mood today,

or maybe the main reason is because he realizes that now he is going to having to answer to someone at least?

LIEU: The President clearly was in a sour mood today. And if he thought the election results were good, he would not have the announced the firing of Jeff Sessions today. He would have waited till next week. He really wanted to change the subject. And we actually had a blue wave, not just in the House of Representatives. We also won a large number of legislator seats -- net increases in governorships.

So you saw a blue wave across much of America last night. And I think Trump wanted to change the subject.

[22:49:52] LEMON: So can I ask you because you have subpoena power. And there -- big part of the equation here for a lot of folks that people are really concerned about is that this President has never released his tax returns. They don't know who, in his businesses, who he's beholden to, who he's done business to, who he might -- I am not saying he does, owe favors to possibly.

As part of the mission of this Congress going to be to get the tax returns and make sure that this administration and this President abides by the emoluments clause?

LIEU: I think it's important to see the President's tax returns to make sure that he's not under improper influence by any foreign entities or foreign organizations. And the issue of subpoena power, there's an actual law and process that allows the chair of the House Ways and Means Committee to get these tax returns. So I do expect that to happen.

LEMON: When is all this going to start, day one?

LIEU: It could be day one or week one. But relatively soon, because you need to make sure that the President of the United States is putting the country first and not his own interests first.

LEMON: Thank you, Congressman Ted Lieu. I appreciate your time.

LIEU: Thank you, Don.

LEMON: The President publicly lashing out at just about anybody who disagrees with him today. Think those midterm results have anything to do with his bad mood? We'll talk about that.

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