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Don Lemon Tonight
Rick Scott Filed Lawsuits Post-Midterm; Mass Shooting at a Bar in Thousand Oaks, California, 12 People Dead; The Races for Florida Senate and Governor Getting Tighter; Protesters on the Streets of Chicago. Aired 10-11p ET
Aired November 08, 2018 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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[22:00:00] CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST: "CNN TONIGHT" with Don Lemon starts right now.
DON LEMON, CNN HOST: I've been told the lord helps those who help themselves. And the last couple times we've had these shootings, and I said thoughts and prayers, thoughts and prayers, it's why do we do thoughts and prayers? We should be doing what fix it.
(CROSSTALK)
CUOMO: Anything. We should be doing anything.
LEMON: What it takes to stop this, right.
CUOMO: Is what you do.
LEMON: But then you get -- we can't even have a conversation.
CUOMO: No.
LEMON: Because people say, what are you, anti-religion? Anti-God? It's the dumbest argument. That's not what we're saying. We're saying before you get to those thoughts and prayers, where you don't have to pray for the people who sadly lost their loved ones or are suffering from this or are injured or what have you, maybe you should be doing something to prevent it instead of just after it's -- our thoughts and prayers. OK.
CUOMO: And there's plenty to do.
LEMON: Right.
CUOMO: Look, you can't look away from the weapon. Who gets access to weapons and how matters. I'm a gun owner. It matters. Most responsible gun owners want better access rules for weapons. All right? It's not about us.
You've got mental health. You've got the culture of violence in this society. This is part of the unique aspect, Don. The idea of you wanting to take your own life is regrettable. The idea that the way to do it is to take others along with it, that's unique. It's unique to us. Why? Well, we don't know. We don't talk about it.
Access to guns and how people get them. Every check, every sale being checked. We can't even talk about it in a real way. It's never part of the dialogue. It's all emotion. It's all in the moment. Nothing happens.
LEMON: I don't think it's too much to ask for guns, second amendment right, and sense with it. We just -- we can't -- we have to stop pretending that the second amendment is the amendment above all that's sacrosanct. Remember people talking about the other amendments and maybe it should be -- we should amend them because it has to do with birthright citizenship and on and on and on but the second amendment is sacrosanct.
OK. Fine. That's just what -- that's -- I'm just giving you the analysis here. But do you think that the forefathers, when they were implementing the second amendment, actually thought about the types of weapons that might become available years into the future when they were thinking about muskets and so on and so forth?
CUOMO: No. It's never fair to put it on the founding fathers.
LEMON: No. Right.
CUOMO: They only knew what they knew. But they also didn't make it second. OK?
LEMON: Right.
CUOMO: It wound up being that way in the delineation of them. But it wasn't that in their original intention. And look, none of that matters. It's all germane to the conversation. But at end of the day we just all know there's only one question. Can you do better than this?
LEMON: Of course.
CUOMO: But we don't. And that's where the discussion's over for me. Until you own that and you act on it.
LEMON: I don't understand.
CUOMO: Don't try.
LEMON: We are the biggest, best democracy in the world. Right? We have figured things out and we do things that no other country can do. Why do we have -- why are we disproportionately affected by gun violence more than any other nation in the world?
What is it? If you can't see that, then there is an issue with you. And the folks who actually really believe that the second amendment, as I say, is sacrosanct to them, those are the folks who should be challenging people like the NRA to do better when it comes to what kind of gun laws we should have. What their stance is on the second amendment and how they conduct themselves in the process when we're trying to deal with this, with saving lives. CUOMO: Look, that's fine. We can all treat each other better. We know
that. And you now, I've got to worry about myself. That's all I can control. But look, it doesn't begin and end with the weapons. You can't ignore them as part of the formula. There's too much money. There's too much political leverage tied up in that. That in and of itself, what I said is an excuse.
I'm just saying at the end of the day there's such a juxtaposition, a contradiction between the emotion that people show in these moments-- LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: -- how much they feel the empathy. It's not empathy.
LEMON: Right.
CUOMO: You don't do a damn thing about them. Don't say that you care--
LEMON: Right.
CUOMO: -- about the people who you see on TV when you won't do anything to help those same people. And I know people don't like that.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: You're not supposed to judge people. And I get it. I get it. I'm not here to be popular. I know it's true. I've stared into more of these people's eyes than most people at this network.
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: Thank you very much.
CUOMO: And I'll tell you, it kills me because I can't tell them what they want to hear.
LEMON: I'm so glad you said that because I'm sure people will take this out of context and they'll take clips of what we said, Don Lemon and Chris Cuomo want to get rid of the second amendment. Nobody said that.
(CROSSTALK)
CUOMO: Bonnie and Clyde of fake news.
LEMON: No one is even insinuating that. You're a gun owner. I have owned guns. And I'm a big proponent of the second amendment. I come from Louisiana. Sportsman's paradise. I grew up with guns in the house. My aunt carried one in her purse. So did my sister. Nobody said we should take the guns away whatever. No.
[22:04:58] But if you're going to carry a gun, if you're going to be allowed the privilege or the right in this society to have a gun, then you should have sense with it. You should treat it responsibly. And that's all we're saying. That's all we're saying.
CUOMO: And that's one aspect.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: You know, there's the Columbia protocol. People can Google it. A friend of mine has done such amazing things with this. Six easy questions they train people to ask those in their midst, under their charge, that they work with, that they know, and you identify people who are in need of help, that they aren't processing things the right way, they need help.
Our society doesn't deal with that. We stigmatize it. You can identify these people better. You can help them get treatment better. You can make them get treatment better. You can process their access to dangerous instruments better.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: You can do so many things that we don't do. And it's really just disgusting. It really is.
LEMON: Yes. I've got to till, this is a quick story. I've got to go, though. When I was a kid, you know, it was Christmas time, and I was searching for Christmas presents around the house, and I found one of the family guns. I tell you, when my dad got a hold of me after that, I didn't pick up one for a decade after that. I knew better. I knew that that was something that I needed to, number one, not do until I was an adult and, again, to do it responsibly.
CUOMO: Look, almost without exception gun owners are ridiculously responsible people.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: They know what they're dealing with. They know how dangerous it is. They know the respect. It's a culture of respect.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: We're just not showing that respect to one another in terms of dealing with this bigger problem.
LEMON: Next time you see my mom, ask her about that. She'll tell you the real story.
(CROSSTALK)
CUOMO: She's watching right now.
LEMON: I can't -- I know. I can't repeat it on television what my dad did to me, because you know, this day and age.
CUOMO: I'll see. I mean, she watches me every night.
LEMON: Yes. By the way, bye, Chris.
CUOMO: The truth hurts, brother. LEMON: Great interview with Nancy Pelosi. I'll see you tomorrow.
CUOMO: See you soon.
LEMON: This is CNN TONIGHT. I'm Don Lemon.
If you think the midterms are over, I want you to think again because we've got breaking news tonight on some key undecided races. You want to stay tuned for this. It's in Arizona. The Democrat Kyrsten Sinema has pulled slightly ahead of Republican Martha McSally in the race for the U.S. Senate seat. That's the one that's vacated by Jeff Flake. Sinema has a lead of 9,000 votes with thousands more still to be counted in that race.
And let's take you to Florida now, where both the Senate and the governor's races could be headed for a recount. Governor Rick Scott has announced lawsuits alleging there could be what he calls rampant fraud in Palm Beach County and Broward County.
That's pretty stunning because Governor Scott is the Republican Senate candidate. He's calling for an investigation of his own race against incumbent Democrat Bill Nelson. Interesting there. We've got much more to come on all of this. You really want to stay tuned for that. It's getting interested -- interesting there.
And I want you to take a look at these pictures. These are protests earlier tonight in Chicago and across the country. They are demanding that Robert Mueller's Russia investigation be protected. That's after President Trump chose a man to take oversight over the investigation, of this investigation, who seems tailor made to just outright shut it down.
His name is Matthew Whitaker. He's now the acting general -- attorney general. He has called Mueller's appointment ridiculous and a little fishy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MATTHEW WHITAKER, ACTING U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: For whatever reason Rod Rosenstein determined that the Department of Justice couldn't handle this in their ordinary course of work, which I think was ridiculous. I think it smells a little fishy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Well, he has written that the special counsel should be ordered to limit the scope of his investigation, and he told me on this show last year just how an attorney general could stall this investigation.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WHITAKER: I could see a scenario where Jeff Sessions is replaced with a recess appointment and that attorney general doesn't fire Bob Mueller but he just reduces the budget so low that his investigation grinds to absolutely -- almost to a halt. (END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: You can believe that that is music to the president's ears. And make no mistake, there's a reason that all of this is happening right now. Right after the midterms. That promised quiet period for the Mueller investigation, well, now that quiet period is all over.
And multiple sources are telling CNN that Mueller's team is already working on its final report. You've got to wonder just how important it is. To the president to discredit this investigation. When it seems like the most important qualification for the man he chose to oversee it was that he be willing to put down as many road blocks as possible.
That comes as more Americans are mourning tonight, more Americans who should have been safe were suddenly cut down by an angry stranger with a gun. This time in a country in western bar in Thousand Oaks, California.
[22:09:55] One minute they were listening to country music, dancing, having a good night out. And the next, they were running for their lives. The lucky ones, that is, if you can call it that. Those are the ones who were running for their lives.
Twelve people were shot to death in an attack captured on video and posted to Instagram. Which I warn you, it's disturbing to watch.
I really don't want to play too much of that. As I said, it is disturbing to watch, to listen to. But what's really chilling is this. You don't hear the people screaming. Just gunshots and the sound of people trying to escape.
Everyday Americans now know what they should do if they're caught in a shooting. You don't scream. You stay down. You run as soon as you can. It's chilling that we've all thought about this. We've all had to think about it. We've all learned that hard and sad lesson.
It's horrifying that 12 families are mourning their lost loved ones tonight. Their lives will never, ever, ever be the same. Law enforcement had already had contact with the shooter. A neighbor called police in April when there was a disturbance at his house.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It sounded like he was banging on the walls or something. It got to the -- concerned me, and I called the police to come out and investigate it. Because I don't know if the man is armed or not and I don't want to go in, you know, knocking on his door. They checked him out and as far as I know that they had a psychologist or some doctor of that came out and he was -- and everything seemed to go back to normal after that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Another neighbor said the shooter's mother was worried because her son didn't want to get help.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RICHARD BERGE, SHOOTER'S NEIGHBOR: She didn't tell me much. She just was kind of beside herself, didn't know what to do, because he wouldn't get help.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: I want you to take a look at this. This is a Facebook post believed to have been from the shooter around the time of the attack. OK. That's according to a law enforcement official. The shooter's saying, quote, "I hope people call me insane. Wouldn't that just be a big ball of irony? Yes, I'm insane, but the only thing you people do after these shootings is hopes and prayers, or keep you in my thoughts, every time."
And I wonder why these keep happening. People saw something. They said something. And still 12 people died.
So, here's just a partial list of places where Americans aren't safe. OK? Americans aren't safe in country-western bars. They're not safe in synagogues. Not safe in churches. Schools. Elementary schools, high schools, colleges. Supermarkets. Concerts. Offices. Gay bars. Military bases. Newsrooms. Don't forget about malls and baseball fields. I could have a longer list here. It goes on and on.
And remember, just last week when the president told you it was the caravan that you were supposed to be afraid of. The caravan he is strangely not talking about much since the election. Well, the caravan didn't shoot up that bar in Thousand Oaks. Which caravan did the shooter belong to? None of them as far as I know.
The caravan didn't kill 11 people in that Pittsburgh synagogue. I want you to hear me here. The caravan is not the problem, hasn't been the problem. Homegrown killers are the problem. Homegrown killers are the problem. The question is when are we going to do something about it?
[22:14:59] We can talk more, but I have some breaking news I need to get to. We're going to talk more about that later on. But let's get to those races in Florida and Arizona. The Senate races.
Here's Harry Enten. He's here with more. I want to ask you about Florida. It looks like both the Senate and governor's races could be headed to a recount here. Good evening to you.
HARRY ENTEN, CNN POLITICS SENIOR WRITER AND ANALYST: Good evening. And I should point out they're heading to different types of recounts at this point, right? So basically, Florida law is if the margin between the two top vote getters is less than .5 percentage points you have a machine recount. If it's less than .25 percentage points you're heading toward a manual hand recount that will look at the undervotes and over votes.
The 2.5 marquee that is being seen in the Senate race right now. Bill Nelson continues to close the gap. He's still down to Rick Scott as we see on the screen right now, down by about 15,000 votes. I should point out that's a fairly significant margin. Go back to 2000, for example. The margin was .3 percentage points.
Right now, it's about six times that. But still with votes still to be counted and there are still provisional ballots to be counted statewide and there are still some mail ballots to be counted in Palm Beach County that margin can shrink even further.
LEMON: OK. So, it's 50.1 to 49.9. How many votes do you think are still out there, down there to be counted in Florida?
ENTEN: It could be more than 10,000 votes still to be counted. If you took to Marc Elias who is leading the Nelson recount effort, they believe it could be considerably more than that. I should also point out that in Broward County there seem to be a lot of ballots, a lot of ballots where there was a vote cast for governor but no vote cast for Senate. Now, that could be because of the ballot design, which was rather confusing, but it could also be a machine malfunction. We'll just have to wait and see.
LEMON: OK. Here's the interesting part. So, Rick Scott was pretty happy with it, right? After it was called.
ENTEN: I would think he would be.
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: He was leading, right? But then all of a sudden now that it could be headed towards which would be a automatic recount--
(CROSSTALK)
ENTEN: A manual recount in the Senate.
LEMON: A manual recount. OK. So, if it's headed towards a manual recount, now he is claiming that there's rampant fraud in Palm Beach and Broward Counties. What's going on?
ENTEN: Look, they have taken a very long time to count the ballots down in Broward County. And the person who's in charge of that voting at the county board, voting county board historically a lot of criticism's been thrown that person's way.
But I don't really see any signs of fraud. I perhaps see signs of incompetence but not really fraud. But I think the fact is that when you see these vote counts keep going down, he's getting a little suspicious. But again, I don't see any signs of fraud.
LEMON: OK. So, here's what I want to know. So Kyrsten Sinema, right, I want to go to Arizona. The Democratic candidate against Martha McSally. She has all of a sudden taken the lead. What's going on there?
ENTEN: Yes. So, you have a lot of vote by mail in that state and that vote by mail is counted at a different time. So, this is not unusual that this goes on for weeks and weeks and weeks. It should be pointed out that there are a lot of ballots still to be counted. About a little less than 500,000 ballots still to be counted. So, this lead could go the other way. It really depends on where those ballots are and how -- and sort of what batches they came in, right?
So, you have ballots that were placed in these different ballot boxes the day of the election. Those are more favorable to McSally. If they came on the Monday through -- or Friday through Monday before the election, those are more favorable toward Sinema. Those were the ballots, a lot of those got counted today but there are still plenty of those still out of Maricopa County.
And finally, in Pima County about 60,000 votes that are still out, those are pretty good for Sinema. If this was down to the wire and sort of it was pushing me to go in a direction, I would say the leader right now Sinema is probably the most likely to win but there are still a ton of votes to be counted. We'll just have to wait and see.
LEMON: OK. I want -- can you stick around, hang around with me because I want to talk a lot more?
ENTEN: Sure.
LEMON: All right. Thank you. Harry is going to stay with us. I want to talk more about why Rick Scott is calling for an investigation of his own Senate race against Bill Nelson and just how ugly a Florida recount in 2018, the 2018 version, could get.
[22:20:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: So breaking news. Florida Governor Rick Scott's Senate campaign filed lawsuits tonight against officials in two counties in that state. He is demanding an investigation of his own Senate race against incumbent Bill Nelson, claiming there's been rampant fraud. So why would he claim that? This might be the reason.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RICK SCOTT, GOVERNOR OF FLORIDA: Late Tuesday night our win was projected to be around 57,000 votes. By Wednesday morning that lead dropped to 38,000 votes. By Wednesday evening it was around 30,000 votes. This morning it was around 21,000. Now it is 15,000.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: So, let's discuss now. Harry Enten is back, and joining us is David Swerdlick and Marc Caputo.
Good evening, everyone. Welcome to the panel, of course, Harry, welcome back. Marc, I'm going to start with you. The governor of Florida using his power to send in law enforcement to monitor a race that he's running in. Is this unprecedented?
MARC CAPUTO, SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER, POLITICO: I don't recall seeing this in a Florida election, and I've seen a lot of things in Florida elections including the 2000 Florida recount, which this is kind of reminiscent of, at least in its unexpected nature, except in Florida we now have six recounts that are going on. Three statewide ones that should be going on, I should say, that haven't happened yet, and three legislative races as well. LEMON: So, exactly, Marc, what is Rick Scott alleging in his lawsuit?
CAPUTO: Well, his lawsuit against Broward County is a public records lawsuit. He's saying look, we wanted to inspect the ballots that were left over, a kind of after election day that were to be counted, and the supervisor of elections in Broward, Brenda Snipes, didn't make them available. She didn't make any lists available and the like.
And in addition to that, he essentially called on the Florida Department of Law Enforcement to investigate, and incidentally Politico just confirmed that FDLE, which is kind of the state's version of the FBI, is investigating to see if there were any kind of any shenanigans that were happening.
part of the problem here is Brenda Snipes' office in Broward County, the office is perpetually involved in a number of elections controversies and most people who have to interface with the office, that is, candidates, politicians, political scientists and reporters have generally walked away with the impression that is utterly inept.
Now some people also believe that perhaps under the cover of this ineptness someone could have smuggled in a bunch of ballots right now. That's just conspiracy theory. There's no evidence for it. It's possible. But what we do know is that time and time again when other counties are finished counting ballots, even a bigger county, Miami- Dade County where I'm broadcasting from, finished its counting of absentee ballots much earlier than Broward and Broward essentially has no excuse.
LEMON: Yes.
CAPUTO: Now had they done a better job of tracking ballots, had they done a better job of responding to public records inquiries, probably wouldn't be involved in this situation like this. But they are now and here we are.
[22:25:00] LEMON: It's a situation as old as time or at least 2009. David, I want to ask you about 2008.
DAVID SWERDLICK, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes
LEMON: But before I get to you let me talk to Harry. Because Harry, you're shaking your head in agreement as Marc is talking there. So, Broward is always a problem?
ENTEN: Yes. I mean, she was I believe fired by Jeb Bush the governor back in 2003 after she was appointed. This is not surprising. But one thing I think is very important to point out. You might know the New York Times needle, you know what's this thing that loose around the election night.
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: The needle that drives everybody crazy.
ENTEN: That drives everybody crazy. It's based upon how many votes are expected to be left in a particular county. And they thought that Rick Scott's margin over Bill Nelson would drop considerably because based on historical trends and the voter turnout in this particular election, they thought there were a lot of votes left to be counted in Broward County.
So, the fact that Bill Nelson's disadvantage, his deficit keeps dropping and Rick Scott's lead keeps dropping, that's not really a surprise. That's in fact what should have been expected to happen. It's not some conspiracy theory.
LEMON: OK. So, couple of things, David.
SWERDLICK: Yes.
LEMON: Are we heading for a legal battle of 2000 hanging chad dimensions?
SWERDLICK: I think it's possible. Look, I think Marc laid it out pretty well. You have on the one side, you have a Democratic-leaning county, Broward, with an elections official who's known to be slow, perhaps even incompetent. That then draws that scrutiny.
On the other side you have a situation where Governor Scott, the Republican, is part of a larger Republican Party that has cried wolf so many times about voter fraud in different races in different states over the last several years that it looks like crying wolf to a lot of people--
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: OK. Hold that thought. Because I want to ask you. And you're going to continue on after this.
SWERDLICK: Yes.
LEMON: Because the president is now alleging on Twitter, David, that election fraud occurred in Florida. That's what he said when he lost the popular vote in 2016. Remember that voter fraud commission? But then the commission was disbanded--
SWERDLICK: Right.
LEMON: -- because they couldn't find any evidence of any substantial voter fraud. The man who led it, Kris Kobach, was just defeated--
(CROSSTALK)
SWERDLICK: In the Kansas governor's race. Right.
LEMON: Yes, go on. Is this the default mode of Republicans, the argument that if they lose that there's some sort of voter fraud going on?
SWERDLICK: Two things going on. One is that generally speaking, especially in statewide races, Republicans are favored when there's less voting. When the electorate is smaller, Republicans do better. Republicans have implemented again over the last number of years all these efforts that are, you know, tantamount to voter suppression efforts. You know, requiring different forms of I.D., not requiring -- allowing certain forms of I.D. and not requiring others in an effort to shrink the electorate and have claimed fraud in a number of cases in a number of ways.
So, when you have then the president, who has you say, Don, is on Twitter tonight saying, you know, Scott should have won when he was the one just a couple of years ago talking about, you know, millions of illegal ballots cast with no evidence, it just fuels the idea that Republicans are crying wolf.
But to go back to Broward County you have to count these votes carefully. I do think you have to at least have a situation where the courts supervise some kind of neutral party, whether it's law enforcement or someone else, look into this because at the end of the day people should be able to at least agree that whatever ballots were cast should be counted. We have to have free and fair elections. Florida has been a basket case before. Maybe it will be again.
LEMON: Final word from you, Marc. You're an expert in all things Florida, especially when it comes to politics and voting.
CAPUTO: Well, we are kind of the basket case state when it comes to elections and once again, we're seeing it.
LEMON: Yes.
CAPUTO: Just a real quick thing. These problems in Broward County did precede Brenda Snipes. Her predecessor was the one removed from office for botching the 2002 Democratic primary for governor.
Governor Jeb Bush then put Brenda Snipes in and a variety of problems have cropped up since. If she winds up getting removed from office which I think might be an increasing possibility in the coming weeks or months, you do expect that if that office is not completely cleaned out of a lot of the workers there who are ultimately responsible for a lot of these elections, meltdowns, problems and controversies, we're probably going to see the same thing again here in a coming election in the future.
LEMON: All right. Thank you, Marc, David, and Harry. I appreciate your time.
SWERDLICK: Thanks, Don.
LEMON: A lot more on Rick Scott's allegations of what he calls rampant fraud in Florida's Senate race. Is he using his power as governor to his advantage?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:30:00] LEMON: All right. Welcome back, everyone. The Florida races for Senate and Governor getting even tighter tonight, are both headed for a recount in states famous, or you could say infamous for that grueling -- remember, 36-day recount battle between George W. Bush and Al Gore in 2000 that just kept us hostage forever. Keith Boykin is here, as well as Alice Stewart.
We don't want to relive those days. That was painful. Good evening to both of you. Keith, give me your reaction to what's happening in Florida.
KEITH BOYKIN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: It's very disturbing. I mean you remember Florida 2000, 537 votes decided that election in 2000. Today, we're in a race where we're at less than 0.5 percent of the vote between Andrew Gillum and Rick DeSantis, where less in the quarter of a percent of the vote, even smaller percentages between Rick Scott and Bill Nelson.
There's automatically (Inaudible) a guaranteed to happen both races. I think you need to count every vote. And Rick Scott going on television today talking about how there is voter fraud with no evidence to support it, and Donald Trump echoing that message is consistent with what they tried in 2000. They're trying to steal this election. They're trying to prevent the votes from being counted. We can't let that happen.
LEMON: Why does everyone say we want as many votes to be counted as possible, as many...
(CROSSTALK)
BOYKIN: You would think in a democracy, the President of the United States and the Governor of a state that is engaged in an election would want to have all the votes counted.
LEMON: Wasn't that Gillum's response? It's his response...
BOYKIN: Count every vote.
LEMON: Count every vote. So Alice, you know, Democrats have a net gain of 30 seats in the house. Ten races still undecided. Yet, there were a lot of disappointed Democrats, remember, on election night as we talked about it. We were together during that time. Does the wave look a lot bluer now to you?
ALICE STEWART, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yeah, it certainly is. As the way the votes are coming back. And some of these races are still being announced. And it's a little more blue than we initially thought. But I think that was anticipated. If I can say one thing about the Florida race, I worked for Rick Scott in 2010. He's the kind of man that would rather lose the right way than win the wrong way. And he wants to make sure that all the votes are counted. And look, the facts are there...
(CROSSTALK)
[22:34:55] LEMON: Why doesn't he say that, though, Alice? I just asked that.
STEWART: He has -- look. I think it's really important to make sure -- and we hear what he has to say. On election night, these absentee ballots need to be reported within 30 minutes of the polls being closed. This went from a 50,000-point margin to 30,000 to 20,000, and now 15,000. And Governor Scott, as I said, he is a good man, and he is pointing out that Democrats and liberals have gone into the state and election officials are bringing in information that he deems as not legitimate information and the numbers are changing...
(CROSSTALK)
BOYKIN: Alice, Alice, Alice.
STEWART: He simply wants it to...
(CROSSTALK)
BOYKIN: Rick Scott has tried everything he can to stop people from voting in Florida. He's closed polling places. He's worked against the idea of enfranchising people who had served their time and were allowed to vote. He lost the Amendment Four vote because of that. He's done the exact opposite of what you would expect someone who's actually interested in having the votes counted.
So that argument that somehow he wants the votes counted doesn't wash when you think about his record.
STEWART: He wants...
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: Before you respond, Alice, let me ask you. OK, so you're saying Democrats are bringing in things that are -- that they think are illegitimate. But because there's some irregularity at a polling place or just some person screwed something up at a polling place, or whatever it is, that voters should be -- that their voices should not be heard because they didn't get it in 30 minutes after.
It's not the people who voted fault. It's not Democrats' fault that that happened or Republicans if someone screwed it up.
STEWART: They certainly did. And the Governor is pointing out the fact that those are Democrat election officials in Broward and Palm Beach County, and liberals coming into the state and bringing in new information. As I said, the numbers don't lie...
(CROSSTALK)
BOYKIN: Who are these, quote unquote, liberals coming into the state bringing in new information, Alice? You're just saying stuff without...
(CROSSTALK)
STEWART: These are election officials. And the Governor was quite clear in his statement. Look, the numbers...
(CROSSTALK)
BOYKIN: Alice, this is voter suppression. STEWART: The margin in his race initially, as I said, absentee
ballots need to be in by 30 minutes after...
(CROSSTALK)
BOYKIN: Actually, I am not...
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: Hold on, Keith.
STEWART: The margin of error continues to change, and there seems to be something that needs to be looked into...
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: OK, Alice, let's discuss, though.
(CROSSTALK)
STEWART: He wants to make sure he gets all the...
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: OK. Then he should say that instead of -- hold on, Keith. I swear I am going to let both of you. So then I think Keith has a very good question that I will reiterate. And please answer. What do you mean by Democrats are coming into the state and changing...
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: Liberals are coming into the state. Who? Who?
STEWART: No. What he is talking about, what I am referring to is these election officials in Palm Beach and Broward counties who are Democrat-leaning election officials coming in, where were these...
(CROSSTALK)
BOYKIN: They're not...
(CROSSTALK)
STEWART: Where were these votes when the polls closed?
(CROSSTALK)
BOYKIN: Alice...
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: Are you talking about people who live there? Or are you talking about people who live outside...
(CROSSTALK)
STEWART: I am talking about the election officials.
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: Election officials from Florida.
BOYKIN: They're not coming in from out of state. They live in the state. And they're elected by the people of the state of Florida in those counties to do these jobs, and while we're talking about...
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: Hold on. Sorry, Keith. I am not -- Alice, I am not trying to beat up on you. I just...
(CROSSTALK)
STEWART: I am happy to answer this...
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: I am just trying to get some clarification. When you say that there are liberals that are coming into the state, if there's actually something there that's happening that shouldn't be happening, I want to know, I just want clarification from you, because that would be a real problem if something is going wrong there. People are going there with bad intentions.
STEWART: That's exactly what the Governor wants to investigate. That's the whole point of why we're having this conversation.
LEMON: Let's...
STEWART: He seems -- there is a concern when the margin of error was originally 50,000, and then all of a sudden...
(CROSSTALK)
BOYKIN: The margin of error is going down because there are votes that haven't yet been counted. There are provisional ballots that need to be counted. There are early votes that still need to be counted. And there are mail-in votes that still need to be counted, particularly in Palm Beach County and in Broward County. We have a lot of votes still and provisional ballots in almost every county that haven't been counted in 97 counties in the state of Florida.
So there are a lot more votes to come in, and the margin of difference between the four candidates...
LEMON: It's a vote margin. It's not a margin of error. It's a vote margin.
(CROSSTALK)
STEWART: Exactly. That's what I meant. I am sorry.
BOYKIN: The margin between the candidates in the Governor's race and the Senate race is still tight. So the idea of Rick Scott declaring victory and suing people while there are votes being counted is irresponsible. Let's count the votes. Let's have a Democratic process where everybody should have the right to have their vote counted.
They shouldn't have the Governor or the President of the United States trying to stop that process. We did this in 2000. We should not do this again in 2018.
LEMON: I am out of time. I am out of time. Alice -- you know -- Alice, you know we're going to be talking about this a lot more. But we shouldn't just assume that it's Democratic votes. It is Republican votes, I am sure. Just -- it may be a Democratic stronghold. But there are Republicans in those districts as well, and their votes should be counted.
[22:39:58] STEWART: Absolutely. And that's what he's saying. But his concern is that the election officials in these particular counties are -- I've been there. I know. He's talking about these election officials that are run by Democrats. And look, he's the first one to say...
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: I've got to go, Alice.
STEWART: Let's get all the information out there.
LEMON: All right. I am over time. Thank you, thank you, both. I appreciate it.
STEWART: Thanks, guys.
LEMON: We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: All right. Look at that. Those are protesters on the streets of Chicago. And they're demanding that the Mueller investigation, this probe, be protected. They poured onto the streets in Chicago and other cities around the country this evening. That said, so the likely incoming House Judiciary Chairman Jerry Nadler of New York says that the firing of Jeff Sessions is a crisis moment.
[22:44:56] That's what he's calling it. So what can Democrats do to protect the Mueller investigation? It's going to take more than just taking to the streets. That's a good start. I am sure. But joining me now is Congressman David Cicilline. He is a Democrat on the Judiciary and Foreign Affairs Committee. Good to have you on. Thank you, Sir.
REP. DAVID CICILLINE, (D) RHODE ISLAND CONGRESSMAN: My pleasure.
LEMON: What do you think of the protests? We saw the video from Chicago. What do you think of that? Does that give you at least some sort of inspiration to make sure that this investigation is protected? CICILLINE: Well, I mean, it's great to see people engaged in
protecting our democracy all over the country. But we don't need any more inspiration. Our love of America is going to require us to do that. The President has attempted to undermine this investigation from the very beginning. He's attempted in many ways to impede, to delegitimize, to challenge the investigation, tried to interfere with it in a number of different ways.
And this latest firing of Jeff Sessions as a result of a fundamental misunderstanding of the role of the Attorney General, the President keeps saying I want someone to protect me. That's not the role of the Attorney General. That's...
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: But do you think that's a misunderstanding or a willful misunderstanding or pretending to misunderstand...
(CROSSTALK)
CICILLINE: Yeah. I think it's a willful misunderstanding. I think he's capable of reading. He certainly has to know that is not the job of the Attorney General. The Attorney General takes an oath to the constitution of the United States, represents the United States of America. He isn't the personal lawyer for the President. But once Mr. Sessions recused himself, which he was required to do under existing law.
And that infuriated the President, and now he's fired him, and he's replaced him with someone who clearly has already -- you know, basically put there for the purpose of protecting the President.
LEMON: OK.
CICILLINE: And, you know, it's -- there's a constitutional question as to whether or not he can be appointed without Senate confirmation. There's a real question about whether he should recuse himself. And there's also a succession statute that's been violated. Rod Rosenstein would normally take over once there's no Attorney General. So this is a crisis, as Mr. Nadler says, a very serious challenge.
LEMON: So you agree that it's a crisis?
(CROSSTALK)
CICILLINE: Absolutely.
LEMON: OK. Let me ask you this because...
(CROSSTALK)
CICILLINE: This is a slow motion Saturday night massacre.
LEMON: OK. So you mentioned in your previous answer that you believe -- you've seen that he is -- you've said he's against this investigation or he has been very critical of this investigation. You've seen -- I am sure you've seen the news. You saw what he said on this show to me in 2017. And then there's more audio that surfaced tonight of -- we're talking about Matthew Whitaker.
He's the acting Attorney General now. And so a radio interview of him in 2017 where he talks about the Russia investigation. Listen to this and then we'll talk.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The left is trying to sow this theory that essentially Russians interfered with the U.S. election, which has been proven false. They did not have any impact in the election. And that has been very clear from the Obama administration. They're trying to suggest that essentially the Trump campaign had these deep ties into Russia, which is not true.
And that is, you know, I guess what the -- they're trying to conflate, is that somehow Russia and the Trump campaign, you know, sort of conspired to influence the election. I mean it's crazy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: OK. So here's the thing. He says that Russian interference has been proven false. That's not true. These are the facts. U.S. intelligence, many political and military leaders agree that there's no doubt. So how can Whitaker be in charge of the Mueller investigation? I am asking you that because he has positioned himself as a political operative. So how can a political operative now be in charge of the Mueller investigation?
CICILLINE: He can't be. I mean it's an absurdity. Our intelligence agencies have concluded that the Russians attacked our democracy. That's the uniform conclusion of all of our intelligence agencies. Every expert has said that. So the notion that that's just not true is a lie. And he has been an operative for the President. He is someone who has attempted to undermine this investigation from the beginning.
He has no business supervising Mr. Mueller. And if he were asked -- if he were to ask for an ethics opinion, I think they would tell him he's required to recuse himself. It's not just the appearance of impropriety. It's impropriety. You have come to a conclusion about this investigation. You can't supervise or lead it. And it's completely inappropriate. The President knows that.
And rather than having Rod Rosenstein continue the supervision of the investigation, he's put in this individual, I think for the express purpose of trying to protect him from the results. We cannot allow that to happen.
LEMON: Congressman, I appreciate your time. Everybody calls you Cicilli. Tell them the real way to say your last name.
CICILLINE: Cicilline.
LEMON: Well, we love having you on. CICILLINE: Thanks for having me.
LEMON: Cicilline or Cicilline, either way. Thank you, Sir. I appreciate it.
CICILLINE: Thanks.
[22:49:52] LEMON: We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Investigators desperately searching for clues in the mass shooting at a bar in Thousand Oaks, California, last night. They're looking at a Facebook post believed to have been written by the shooter around the time of the attack. And in it, here's what he says. He says yeah, I am insane. But the only thing you people do after these shootings is hopes and prayers, or keep you in my thoughts every time, and wonder why these keep happening.
Let's bring in now Ms. Juliette -- James Gagliano and also Juliette Kayyem. I appreciate both of you joining us this evening, Juliette, your reaction to that final message, particularly what he said on the thoughts, or hopes, and prayers as he says it.
JULIETTE KAYYEM, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: He's mocking us and he's mocking how this nation reacts to this gun violence. I've sat in this chair, you know, three times in less than two weeks just on mass shootings, let alone all the other news, whether the synagogue, a yoga studio, or of course, what happened at the bar. And we sometimes think just very quickly gun -- you know, talking about gun control only has to do with the type of gun, because he only had a handgun.
The success of the NRA has prohibited us or has stopped us from even studying gun violence from stopping loopholes that exist. And third, you know, essentially from expanding background checks. Now in this case, do I know that would have stopped it? Of course, not, but if I look at the totality of what's happening in this country, the -- we have to talk about the success of the NRA stopping just the common sense rules and regulations that are necessary to just at least minimize the threat of this now. It's not too early to talk about this. It's actually too late.
LEMON: Yeah. James, you know, he served his country. He served in the marines. Is it possible that the military knew about his issues?
JAMES GAGLIANO, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: You know I heard the sheriff this morning obviously in the immediate aftermath discuss PTSD. And obviously, without a psychiatric evaluation, that's difficult to say right now. Look it from the perspective of the last 17 years, essentially the last 17 years in this country that we've been at war.
[22:55:01] In this country, 250 mass shootings, meaning 3 or 4 victims, 2,217 casualties and 799 dead people in that period of time. None of them fit in the same box. In this instance, you had a marine machine gunner, he either carried a light machine gun or a medium machine gun, and he served at the height of the Afghanistan campaign. Meaning in 2010, Don, which was the height of the surge and the bloodiest period of time for U.S. combat troops in Afghanistan, he was there.
Now, can you attribute that to what he saw over there? Well, a lot of people come back and they adjust back in society. The vast majority of veterans that come back from seeing who horrific things, war images, just horrific things that are unconscionable. We can't even imagine. Most of them adjust and go back to work and go back to their lives here. Some of them don't.
Now, could that possibly be what led him to do this? Or could he have just been an evil person? There are a lot of things that go into this. It's not -- we can't rubber stamp this because California has some of the strictest gun laws. There's a 10-day waiting period.
LEMON: Should he have had a gun?
GAGLIANO: What's that?
LEMON: Should he have had a gun?
GAGLIANO: Well, I mean how do you stop somebody from getting one if there had been no indication before they had...
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: But he had run-ins.
GAGLIANO: He did. But if we had everybody that had a run-in with the law and we said they couldn't have a firearm that would be a huge amount of our population. We've got 330 million people. A lot of them have run-ins with the law. Whether they're charged with a misdemeanor felony, do we say to all those people -- I mean we have this conversation all the time.
Civil liberties keep you safe. You want to put me in charge of this country to keep you safe, I will install martial law. If we do that, we can keep everybody safe.
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: If you're a felon, right, if you've been convicted of a crime, you can't vote.
GAGLIANO: Yes.
LEMON: So should you be able to be have a gun?
GAGLIANO: Convicted felons shouldn't be in possession of a firearm either. That's one of our laws, absolutely.
LEMON: Yeah. Thank you. Thanks to both of you. I appreciate it.
KAYYEM: Thank you.
LEMON: We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
