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Don Lemon Tonight

President Trump Praises Roger Stone and Slams Cohen; Former President George H.W. Bush at the U.S. Capitol; Assault Accusations Against Kareem Hunt; President is Expressing His Anger on Twitter. Aired 10-11a ET

Aired December 03, 2018 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(JOINED IN PROGRESS)

[22:00:00] DON LEMON, CNN HOST: And also, I think that what we do sometimes is we tend to look at things sometimes, Chris, through a 2016, '17, '18 lens from 20, 30, 40 years ago when sometimes you can't really do that. Those were the times back then. Times -- things are different now.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST: True. I often think that you do have to reflect on men and women in their moment in time, right? You can't have such bold expectations for people. Some people transcend. But you do have to look at somebody within their own temporal restrictions. But decency doesn't work that way.

LEMON: Right.

CUOMO: Politics doesn't work that way. We have been mean and bucknasty in politics for a long time. I just finished a book about the Lincoln-Douglas debates. They were mean, Don. No matter how long we're out, we never talk to each other like that at any point in a night the way they did it as common course.

And I think you can look at President Bush today for all his flaws, as a one-term president, and that was a mark on him and it happened for a reason. But the way he conducted himself as president was a testament to not just his character but the character of the country. And I think that's something that's worth remembering.

LEMON: Well, you hear him there saying, I'm not going to do it with you know, somebody said not going to--

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: Na ga da.

LEMON: Na ga da was not going to do it. Wouldn't be prudent. That was his, remember that?

CUOMO: Yes.

LEMON: Yes. A thousand points of light. I mean it was great to see Dana Carvey do that. Can you imagine Alec Baldwin -- can you imagine Donald Trump doing that with Alec Baldwin now? CUOMO: Nope.

LEMON: It would be great, but he just couldn't bring himself to do it.

CUOMO: Different person but not a different time. The time for decency is now just as it was back when President George H.W. Bush -- first election I ever voted in by the way was President George H.W. Bush's election.

LEMON: You're a kid. You're a baby.

CUOMO: I was a freshman at Yale, his alma mater. I voted in that election. He became president of the United States. And I think it's an instruction. When you remember somebody when they passed, you and I have had to deal with this lately, losing people that we love who we're very close to.

And you try to think about what do you hold on to. They're gone. What you hold on to is what they taught you. What you hold on to is what they showed you. This president is no different in that regard. The historians will deal with what he did right and wrong, how good he was, where he ranks. But how he did the job matters. How he lived his life mattered. And it's a good reminder for us especially now.

LEMON: Don't you now -- even just by watching, I was glued to the CNN today watching, you know, the funeral and the body being brought back to Washington. And it was -- in an odd way, there was comfort to know that there were people like George H.W. Bush in the world and people who took lessons from him. And let's hope that in that vein, in that theme, people will realize we need to get back to a place where we can argue about ideology. We can argue about right versus left, policy, what have you.

But we shouldn't be demonizing each other so much. We shouldn't be just calling each other names willingly. We should -- you know, and I hate to say on all sides. It comes from one, and I don't mean the conservative side. That's not what I'm talking about. It comes from one person mostly, and that this president. The behavior starts at the top.

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: Well, you know the expression--

LEMON: If you want to be in you've got to be with him.

CUOMO: You know the expression what you ignore, you empower? That's kind of the price of the politics that we've had for the last 15, 20 years is that when you cheapen it, when you devalue the debate, when you make it about how I'm going to start talking about how you look or how you are versus what you said.

LEMON: Right.

CUOMO: You're asking for someone to come in and capitalize on what you've made political currency.

LEMON: Yes.

CUOMO: And we saw that play out in the election. And at the same time, you know what I was thinking today when I was watching the service? I was thought -- I thought about what Joe Biden said to me as a moment of consolation when pop passed and how proud he would have been of his family, and that's all a man cares about is, you know, his children, and what he leaves behind.

I was looking at that Bush family, and that is one impressive family. And I'm not even talking about the fact that they have two presidents. You know, not since John Adams did you have a father and a son become president.

But, wow, they've just had lots of leaders in that place. And obviously they lost the first lady, but she was, again, just such a force of character and straightforwardness. I mean, they knew what they were about in that famed family, and they live it, and you got to respect that.

LEMON: Class. Class. You can't buy it. They have it.

CUOMO: True.

LEMON: He had it. Let's hope there's some young person coming up who's going to be president of the United States one day and says, I want to -- I want to model my behavior after George H.W. Bush. Wouldn't that be great? I got to go. Thank you, sir. See you tomorrow. Nice work.

This is CNN TONIGHT. I'm Don Lemon.

Let's take a look now, a look at some live pictures of the Capitol rotunda. This is where the 41st president of the United States, George Herbert Walker Bush, is lying in state right now.

[22:05:01] Again, live pictures. The rotunda will stay open to the public all night.

President Trump and the first lady paying their respects earlier. They're also expected to attend the memorial Wednesday at the National Cathedral. And that's the way it should be. The 45th president should pay his respects to the 41st.

But this president also had a meltdown on Twitter this morning. We have to tell you that, blasting Michael Cohen. He's doing that for cooperating with the Mueller investigation, for just telling the truth.

Even slamming Cohen's family and saying his former fixer should go to prison. Then praising Roger Stone for what he calls guts. Guts for refusing to talk to Mueller. That is apparently this president's idea of toughness, rewarding people for keeping their mouth shut.

And why is he so unnerved? Why is he doing this? Why is he skating right along the edge of witness tampering with his tweets when we're laying to rest a very dignified former president? Timing. Appropriateness. Why is he doing it? Two words. Mueller investigation.

The sentencing memo for Michael Flynn due tomorrow. The president's fired national security adviser pleaded guilty to lying to the FBI about his contacts with Russia's ambassador. And Flynn has been cooperating with Mueller for a year, which means that Mueller now knows everything Flynn knows, and he's likely to tell us an awful lot about that tomorrow.

And then on Friday, we're going to learn a whole lot more about Paul Manafort's lies when Mueller lays it all out in his sentencing memo. We don't know yet exactly what Manafort lied about, but we're going to find out in a few days.

So, no surprise that this president is having a meltdown. It doesn't take much to make him lash out, to get him to do it. Then candidate Trump delighted in giving demeaning names to members of his own party.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Lyin' Ted. The bible held high. He puts it down, and then he lies. L-i-t-t-l-e, little, little Marco. Low energy Jeb Bush. So low energy. You fall asleep looking at him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: And he so delights in this chant attacking Hillary Clinton.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(CROWD CHANTING)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Small. Weak. This is a president who embarrassed himself on the world stage at the G20, leaving Argentina's president alone when he abruptly walked away from a photo op.

When this president attends a state funeral for George Herbert Walker Bush on Wednesday, he's going to be sitting not far from Presidents Obama and Clinton, not far from them, in the same company. The very same presidents he's blatantly accused of treason just days ago. He's going to be there along with Hillary Clinton and many more.

I want you to listen to this. This is George H.W. Bush in his own words, words that take a whole new meaning today. This is from CBS. It's Face the Nation in the run-up to the 1980 presidential campaign.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What about the tough enough question and starting out because you don't take after these other guys.

(CROSSTALK) GEORGE H.W. BUSH, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Well, tough enough is I don't equate -- I don't equate toughness with just attacking some individual. I don't attack -- I equate toughness with moral fiber, with character, with principle, with demonstrated leadership in tough jobs where you emerge not bullying somebody, but with the respect of the people you led. That's toughness. That's fiber. That's character. I've got it, and if I happen to be decent in the process, that should not be a liability.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Not bullying somebody, but with the respect of the people you led. Pure Bush 41. It is something a divided America really needs to hear right now. Toughness is standing up for what you believe, not just attacking anybody who crosses you.

Lots to discuss tonight including what we might learn from Michael Flynn's sentencing on Monday -- excuse me -- on tomorrow. Excuse me. I'm going to ask the former acting solicitor general if he thinks President Trump is trying to interfere with the investigation next.

[22:10:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: The president launching another Twitter tirade today, falsely accusing -- falsely accusing Robert Mueller and his investigators of ignoring the truth and seeking out lies. Mueller has crucial court filings this week which will reveal a lot about the direction of the Russia investigation, and that's apparently what's rattling this president.

I want to bring in now Neal Katyal. He's a former acting solicitor general. So good to have you on. Thank you for coming on this evening.

NEAL KATYAL, FORMER ACTING SOLICITOR GENERAL: Thank you, Don.

LEMON: So, tomorrow we're going to see the sentencing document for Michael Flynn. We've heard almost nothing from him in a year, for a year now. And Friday is a memo on Manafort, why that deal blew up. If President Trump is already having a Twitter meltdown, just wait. What do you think is going to happen?

KATYAL: Yes, I don't think this is just a meltdown. I think it's something far more serious. This isn't like some got you game that the left has invented or something like that. I mean, what we saw today is the president engaging in something that looks very much like witness tampering. And this isn't witness tampering in any ordinary law enforcement investigation. This is witness tampering by the president of the United States. The guy being sworn in the bible.

(CROSSTALK)

[22:15:00] Why do you say that? Be more specific, Neal.

KATYAL: Yes. So, you know, what the president did today is he said, you know, people like Cohen should get the book thrown at them. They're liars and so on. But people like Roger Stone, who don't cooperate, well, those are the good guys. Those are the tough guys. And you know, we all know what's going on. There's the prospect of a pardon being dangled out.

And you know, for anyone to do that and offer inducements or winks and nods for not testifying, for not cooperating and to denigrate those who do cooperate, you know, that type of pattern is something that we call obstruction of justice, which we call witness tampering and the like.

But this isn't done just by any ordinary criminal defendant. This is by the guy who swore on the bible to uphold the Constitution of the United States and to take care that the laws be faithfully executed. And Trump has betrayed that promise. And you know, that's what we fight as Americans for. We bleed for the Constitution and the rule of law. And what he did today is fundamentally in tension with it.

LEMON: So, here's -- this is the husband of presidential counselor Kellyanne Conway. His name is George Conway I'm sure you know. He also says that it looks like witness tampering to him, right. I just want to read from his tweet -- excuse me, read a tweet from Eric Trump.

He says one of a -- he says "Of all the ugliness in politics, the utter disrespect George Conway shows toward his wife, her career, place of work and everything she has fought so hard to achieve might top them all. Kellyanne Polls is a great person and frankly his actions are horrible."

He says -- sounds -- he says the same thing that you say that he believes the tampering and obstruction are happening out in the open. But to this particular tweet by Eric Trump--

(CROSSTALK)

KATYAL: Yes, I know George Conway, and Eric Trump. Yes, I know George Conway and Eric Trump is no George Conway. George Conway is a patriot man who believes in the rule of law, who is I think -- you know, he's a conservative. We disagree on a million things, but, you know, I think he's right when he said today this looks very much like witness tampering.

And, you know, our law enforcement system -- I've been at the Justice Department on two different tours. It depends on cooperation of witnesses. The idea that, you know, you denigrate those who cooperate, I mean that's what we expect from the mafia, from people like that. We don't expect that from any government official, let alone the president of the United States.

LEMON: Yes. Let's talk a little more, dig in, because you say these tweets, the president's tweets are part of a pattern by President Trump to interfere with law enforcement. Tell me about that, Neal.

KATYAL: Yes. I mean it starts with the president firing Comey because he's upset with the Russia investigation. It continues as much as last month when he fires Jeffrey Sessions, not some liberal stalwart, because he's upset that Sessions has recused from the Russia investigation. And he installs in his place a lackey, Whitaker, a fake attorney general, bypassing the Senate entirely, and there's no precedent for this whatsoever.

And so, the president is trying to stack the deck at every turn. He's trying to put his loyalists in at the Justice Department. He's trying to denigrate Mueller. He's doing --he's dangling pardons to those who cooperate -- who cooperate and criticizing those that do. I mean, you know, there are people around the world that look this way, including leaders. They just happen to be dictators of third world countries, not the leaders of the free world.

LEMON: OK. So, then what, to you it's being, you said it's being done out in the open. So, does that change anything? Does it matter that it's being done out in the open? Does that make it any less of a possible crime that he's doing it right in our faces?

KATYAL: Not at all. Whether you witness tamper in the open or not, you know, the statute, 1512, doesn't distinguish. It criminalizes both and for good reason, because, you know, we don't care whether it's open or secret. We just care that someone is witness tampering.

Now, the president has offered two defenses today. One, his counsel is saying, well, Trump was saying to witnesses, don't lie. Tell the truth. Now, look, I mean that's pretty unusual, right? We have to think about this. Donald Trump is telling people to not lie? I mean, that is uncharacteristic behavior for the man.

I mean, you know, you can almost envision Trump's pants on fire when he started tweeting today. So, the idea that, you know, for the first time Trump is telling other people to tell the truth is, you know, a little rich. And it's particularly rich because this is a guy whose modus operandi, Trump, is to hire people who are liars. And then when they turn on him, he points at them and says, you're a liar.

LEMON: Duh.

KATYAL: Well, you know, it's all -- it's not presidential at the very least.

LEMON: Yes. So, then what are the ramifications, then? If you -- you mentioned the part of the Constitution, what have you that a part of the law that you said that it's breaking, I guess, that this president appears to be breaking. So, what are the ramifications?

[22:20:05] KATYAL: Yes, I think there's two big ones. One is, you know, what Mueller is going to do with it. And the second is what happens in the House of Representatives. With respect to Mueller, I mean he has jurisdiction to investigate crimes that arise out of his investigation, and witness tampering is kind of chief among them, and obstruction of justice. And he's going to have to take a look at these tweets today.

He's going to have to take a look at these dangled pardons to those who cooperate with Trump and who aren't cooperating with law enforcement. All of that is part of a very, very serious pattern of criminal behavior that will be looked at by Mueller.

And then the second is, you know, is in the House of Representatives and the political consequences, whether it be impeachment, whether it be, you know, attacking the president's programs or other things in retaliation for not telling the truth. There are going to be consequences. This is not ordinary behavior. This is incredibly serious, damaging, potentially criminal behavior by the president of the United States.

LEMON: Neal Katyal, thank you so much. I appreciate your time. Thank you so much.

KATYAL: Thank you.

LEMON: The president putting pressure on former associates and advisers who are in legal hot water in the Mueller investigation. Why some people are comparing what he's saying to the kind of thing you might hear from a mob boss. That's next.

[22:25:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: President Trump is praising his former campaign chairman Paul Manafort for keeping his mouth shut. He has complained about flipping. He's complained about people he calls rats. Some people say that sounds a lot like the kind of talk you'd hear from a mob boss. Is it?

Let's bring in two people who know. They would know about this. Two former federal prosecution -- prosecutors Jennifer Cramer -- wait -- Jeffrey Cramer -- sorry, and Jennifer Rodgers. Excuse me. Got a little tongue-tied there or eyes tied or whatever.

Jennifer, I want to bring you in. Good evening to both of you. Thank you so much for joining us. So, I want you check out. This is a "Washington Post" opinion headline. It says "Trump borrows his rhetoric and his view of power from the mob." And then look at these comments on Twitter today comparing the president to a mob boss and a mafia movie. You've prosecuted these kinds of crimes. Do you see similarities here?

JENNIFER RODGERS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: I do. I wish I could say that I didn't between mobsters and the leader of the free world, but I do see some. You know, one is just in the language and the way that he speaks. You know, we know our president is not the most articulate and eloquent president we've ever had, but some of the language that he uses, the crassness of some of his comments does remind you of what you would hear on a wiretap from mobsters talking.

Maybe a few less four-letter words, but nonetheless still the same gist. And then the interference with the case. The notion of trying to influence witnesses against you is straight out of the mob book is the same thing.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: So, what does this say to you?

RODGERS: It says to me he has the same instincts except that he has powers that mob bosses would only dream of having, right. I mean, all he needs to do is kind of hint that there might be a pardon out there, and that he may take care of it for him whereas mob bosses of course have to resort to the use of violence.

LEMON: Jeffrey, want you to listen to some of the things that the president has said just in the last few months. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I know all about flipping. Everything is wonderful, and then they get 10 years in jail and they flip on whoever the next highest one is or as high as you can go. It's called flipping and it almost ought to be illegal. You know, the only reason I gave him a job is because I felt loyalty.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Cohen is such a bum. Why did you hire him, have him on your payroll for 12 years and have him do so much of your dirty work--

(CROSSTALK)

TRUMP: Because a long time ago he did me a favor. A long time ago he did me a favor. He's a weak person.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Flipping should be illegal. OK. But, listen, a couple of words from his featured tweets. Rat, flip, loyalty. Does that sound mob-like to you, Jeffrey?

JEFFREY CRAMER, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: I think Jennifer has a good point. Those are the kind of phrasings that you hear on a wiretap, not something you'd expect to come out of the Oval Office. But I think there are some comparisons that can be made, not just the nomenclature or the words that the president is using, but how he's using it with respect to whom he's using it.

So in other words, people who flip or work their way up or cooperate are denigrated. And the flip side of that is those who don't cooperate are strong or stand-up guys, if you will.

It's odd that the president would view it that way. Certainly, he's the head of the executive branch, which includes the Department of Justice. I think the other comparison you can make is what we see from prosecutors, how they're approaching this case. They work their way on the bottom, although here the bottom can be a general or someone of equal power, and then work their way up. So, it is almost textbook.

LEMON: This is how the -- can we put up the Washington Post, the way they described it? He says, let's see. "The Washington Post" piece explains, "he's long learned from and looked up to tough, street smart guys who didn't mind breaking some rules to get things done. Trump also admires mobsters who no nonsense language and bias for action. He cites the godfather and good fellas among his favorite movies."

And knows that, you know, part of the Trump business is in New York, right, Atlantic City, which has to do with him being a real estate developer. He's in the casino business. He's crossed paths with some very unsavory characters. Do you see more to that, more in it than that? Jennifer, I'll ask you that.

RODGERS: You know, look, he grew up in Queens. There have obviously been reports for many, many years that his development business had a lot of organized crime ties. You know, it's hard to say. I think he also acts like a lot of strongmen that we see, autocrats around the world. So, I think some of that is his personality. Some of that is where he grew up.

But there's no question he really is trying to tamper with this case. He's not only trying to bend public opinion. He's trying to get people who will cooperate against him not to do so. I'm not saying he's crossed the line into what could be a criminal case against him, but it's very, very, very close.

[22:30:00] LEMON: Jeffrey, you said that prosecutors are also treating this like an organized crime case. Explain that.

CRAMER: As I said, they're working their way up the ladder. And you see that sometimes in white collar cases where there's a fraud. The difference here is the person at the top of the pyramid, be it if you're working an organized crime case or you're working this case, the person at the top has tremendous power.

You don't see that a lot in corporate fraud cases. So that's when the prosecutors go forward. They have a large hammer, because they're talking to individuals in their 60s who could be looking at a severe amount of time in jail. And that has a lot of impetus to try to flip up. So that type of thing is the same. There may be some wiretaps.

There may be some other things going on that we are not privy to. So there could be some other comparisons here. But at the end of the day, the bluster really doesn't matter. The evidence is either there or it's not. I think as Jennifer just indicated, the President is coming dangerously close to tampering with witnesses. He doesn't have to do it overtly.

It can be subtle, which is not a word you really hear too much about this President. But it can be subtle, and that's what he's doing.

LEMON: I got to ask you because, you know, you both keep saying, well, it's unsavory but not necessarily illegal. He's putting out the possibility of pardoning people who stay strong. I mean it does seem like a boss tactic, but technically not illegal?

RODGERS: Well, it's actually very hard to prove witness tampering. One of the problems here is the nature of Twitter. You know he's making these comments to the public generally. He's not calling these people directly. Maybe he is, but we don't know that that's true. So it's hard to say that he's actually sending a message directly to them.

And the message is not as explicit as you would expect if he's really pushing a suitcase of money across the table. You know he's not saying I will pardon you if you stay strong. So those are the things that are tough to make out the case, if you're really in...

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: Come on.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Burdens are high.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: They know what's happening, really?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think that they do. I think he's sending a subtle message, but it might be too subtle for the courtroom beyond a reasonable doubt standard.

LEMON: OK. You say subtle. I say sledgehammer. Thank you, both. I appreciate your time. The 41st President, George H.W. Bush lies in state in the U.S. capitol tonight. I am going to talk with two of the men who worked by his side fore for years.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[22:35:00] LEMON: You're looking live now at the Capitol Rotunda where the 41st President of the United States, George H.W. Bush, lies in state. Earlier tonight, President Trump and the First Lady Melania Trump, paid their respects to the Former President. And with us now, two men who were always by the President's side, John Magaw, Former Director of the Secret Service under President Bush, and David Valdez, who was White House Photographer.

Gentlemen, I am so honored to have both of you on. Thank you so much, and my condolences to both of you. John, I am going to start with you.

JOHN MAGAW, FORMER UNDERSECRETARY FOR TRANSPORTATION SECURITY ADMINISTRATION: Thank you. All right, sir.

LEMON: You oversaw the President's security. His protective call sign was Timberwolf. You were by his side day in, day out. What was that like?

MAGAW: Well, it was a job, an important one. I knew that whatever we did could affect his well being and came -- started in 1980 in the campaign. And I was with him then as the Vice President and as the President, back two or three times. But for the most part of 13 years, I was there and just honored to have served the country in this manner.

LEMON: Yeah.

MAGAW: And while it's a tough day and a tough week that we lost him, it was clear to me in September, when I tried to talk to him on the phone. I always called him on the anniversary of Chichijima, because it meant so much to him, that event, losing a couple of his buddies and many other things about that. But at any rate, I just am overjoyed by the attention that he's receiving around the world.

LEMON: Yeah. MAGAW: Justified.

LEMON: But you know that your job did not come without its hazards. There was an incident in Panama when you had to rush him off the stage. What happened then, John?

MAGAW: Well, in Panama, we were -- he was giving a very important speech. He -- I realized that. He had mentioned earlier in the week that this is an important speech. And I mentioned to him about the intelligence, that it wasn't as good as what we would like. But we would cover it, and we would be ready. And so we were able to back his limousine right up to the stage.

You couldn't see it. But it was right there. And Mrs. Bush was onstage with him. And when shots rang out in the crowd and I heard nothing from the agents in terms of misfire or something like that. And there was quite a ruckus going on. I decided that he needed to come off of the stage. And so I just stepped up to him and said, Mr. President, we need to leave.

Now, he knew from the years I had been with him that I had mentioned to him there may be a time like this. And if that happens, this is what we're going to do. And the missus came off at the same time.

And in the very few seconds, we had him in an armored car and left the area. And I was concerned because I knew how important the speech was to him. And he simply said to me, good judgment. Thank you.

LEMON: Yeah, of course. You're in charge of his safety. And listen, that is sadly part of the job, the hazards of being a President, right? You have the security detail. Hopefully, that does not happen. But there are instances where you have to rush them out of their or their safety is compromised. David, I want to go to you now because you had a front row seat to history as well.

You were the President's -- you were with him for serious moments, fun moments as well. You sent us pictures of some of your favorites. Tell us about those moments.

[22:40:09] DAVID VALDEZ, FORMER WHITE HOUSE PHOTOGRAPHER UNDER PRESIDENT GOERGE H.W. BUSH: Well, I was with him in public and in private. And one of my most famous photos is George and Barbara Bush in bed with the grandchildren. And it was originally shot for Life Magazine just before he ran for President. And I asked Barbara Bush about what we could do, and she suggested come on over to the house at 6:00 in the morning, the next morning and just see what happens.

And I went up to the house and went past some of John Magaw's guys and went in and sat on the end of the bed and waited. And then the grandchildren started coming in. And I stood up, took a couple of snaps, and that photo went on and has taken on a life of its own.

LEMON: We've been looking at a lot of pictures of him outdoors and with his, you know, with family pets and with animals, him fly fishing. And he loved the outdoors. VALDEZ: Oh, yeah. He was an avid sportsman. I mean when we would go

up to Kennebunkport, it was marathon sports. He would start in the morning with a jog and then come back and maybe go play a round of golf, 18 holes, rain or shine, and then go fishing in the afternoon and maybe some tennis and...

LEMON: That fishing picture with the waves is pretty incredible.

VALDEZ: Yeah. That was after -- it's kind of funny, but that was after he lost the re-election. And we went down to Florida and just kind of resting. And he went out into the deep water there, and a wave broke. I wasn't in the water. I was on the beach with a long lens, but got that. And, you know, there were many moments like that that we had a lot of fun.

LEMON: Yeah. John, I want to ask you -- I am sorry. John, I want to ask you. President Bush also was a big risk taker. There's video of this, jumping out of planes, speeding around on his boat in Maine. You can see that in this photo. It was taken by David.

MAGAW: Yeah.

LEMON: Did that make it tough to look after him? By the way, I love boating too, so I am with him on that.

MAGAW: We had an understanding with the boat. They allowed us to put a brace and a harness in there that I had on. So I knew I wasn't going anywhere. And then I was able to reach him and had materials that I would be able to keep him from going overboard. He -- the good thing about -- here's part of him. If he would bump any of those baits or any of those traps that were out up there, he would get the number off the trap and then go to pay the person like to buy a brand new one.

LEMON: Wow.

MAGAW: So he was very caring about everybody. And they left that harness and that rack in that boat that I think was called the Magaw bar or something.

LEMON: David, John, thank you for sharing your memories. Thank you for your time.

MAGAW: My pleasure.

VALDEZ: Thank you very much.

LEMON: We'll be right back.

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[22:45:00] LEMON: Tonight, there is a new assault accusation against Kareem Hunt. He's the former star running back for the Kansas City Chiefs who was cut from the team last week. Kansas City police reports that a 37-year-old man alleges Hunt and at least two others beat him unconscious at a nightclub back in January, but he declined to press charges.

The Chiefs booted Hunt off the team Friday night after TMZ posted video of him allegedly shoving and kicking a woman during an incident in February. The team says the video makes clear that Hunt lied to them when he was questioned about it. Kareem Hunt admits he wasn't truthful, and he is apologizing.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAREEM HUNT, FORMER NFL PLAYER: Honestly, I just want to let the world know, you know how sorry I am for my actions. And, you know, it's been a tough time for me. And I am extremely embarrassed because of that video. I made a poor decision. And I am willing to take full responsibility of any actions that come, you know, from this point on.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: No charges were ever filed against Hunt over the altercation. And he says he wants a second chance.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: I am asking for forgiveness. And I definitely believe I deserve forgiveness. And everything is really, you know, happening fast right now. And I just want everybody to, you know, forgive me. And I know it's going to be hard. I made a bad choice. And I am not going to let this bring me down.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Kareem Hunt is in a lot of hot water, and it's all his fault. He's only 23 years old. He was in his second year in the NFL and was one of the top five running backs in the league. But as of this afternoon, he is a free agent because no team met the deadline to pick up his contract. Even if a team decides to sign him, Hunt can't play.

He cannot play until the NFL completes its investigation of the February incident. But incredibly, 10 months later, Hunt says the league has never questioned him about it. So let's discuss. I want to bring in now Donte Stallworth. He is a former NFL player. CNN Legal Analyst Areva Martin, the Author of "Make It Rain." Good evening to both of you.

[22:50:03] Donte, he's apologized. He said it's been tough on him. He's embarrassed. He deserves to be forgiven. What's your take? Is it over for this young man?

DONTE STALLWORTH, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: I don't know if it's over. I think -- I played for Andy Reid when he was with the Philadelphia Eagles. And Andy Reid has an open door policy. He respects his players. He treats his players like family. And I know one of the things that probably hurt Andy Reid the most was the fact that Kareem Hunt lied to him and lied to others in the organization.

I think that if Kareem Hunt had been honest up front, I am not sure what the punishment would have been. It would have been something. But I know Andy Reid would have at least tried to have helped him. But maybe he felt a little betrayed by Kareem Hunt lying to him. And Kareem Hunt acknowledged that in the ESPN video that he did -- or interview that he did Sunday morning with Lisa Salters.

So I don't know where he moves from here. I don't expect to see him on an NFL field the rest of this season. But, you know, stranger things have happened.

LEMON: You have always been honest about your foibles, right? And you pled guilty -- and you talked about this openly. You pled guilty to a DUI and vehicular manslaughter in 2009. You say that gives you more understanding of how players should handle themselves when they get into real trouble. Explain that.

STALLWORTH: Yeah. My critiques of the Kareem Hunt situation has always been from a place of understanding decision-making, and not for me a sense of judging him but just understanding what it is that makes players move from a point when you get to a fork in the road of either taking a left and going to defuse a situation, or taking the right side in the road or going to an escalating situation.

And unfortunately, he chose to escalate the situation by coming outside initially to speak to the woman, if he thought that she was -- and obviously hindsight everything's 20-20. But this is done. I go and speak to NFL teams. I speak to -- I've worked with the National Hockey League.

I've done some things with the NBA, the universities, high schools. And I talk to them about decision-making. And the sequences that can lead up little -- you know a bad decision here, bad decision here. Next thing you know you're in a world of trouble. You're in a situation that you didn't intend to be in.

But things escalated and got out of your control, because you did not take the proper steps to either deescalate a situation or to understand the seriousness of a situation, and try to get yourself out of it before it all went downhill.

LEMON: All right. Let's bring in our Attorney. Areva, you know some things you can recover from. Some things you can't. That video is damning.

AREVA MARTIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yeah. Don, I think the issue for me is not judgment, but it is accountability. And what we saw after Ray Rice was the league come out and make these grand pronouncements about how it was going to handle domestic violence differently. They talked about a six-game suspension. They talked about conducting their own investigations and not being led by what law enforcement does.

And saying if they found that there were credible allegations of domestic violence, they were going to penalize players even if they weren't charged criminally. And in this case, it takes the videotape from TMZ to cause the league to take the kind of action that you would expect would have expected closer in time to this, you know, this attack on this young lady. And I surely believe in second chances. I am a product of second chances. And I think everyone who's lived to

be, you know, past any age has had to ask for forgiveness and have second chances. But we are also accountable for our actions. And we live in a society where women, one in four, are the victims of domestic violence, men one in seven. And there's not enough done in our society to protect victims.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: Areva, that's why I phrase the question the way I did. When you're looking in this MeToo moment where women feel empowered, and rightfully so, I think more empowered than they have in the history of this country. When you look at that and see that there's video tape of him actually kicking a woman, I am just wondering how -- it's not that I don't believe in second chances. I am just being realistic about this.

MARTIN: There doesn't seem -- there is no explanation, Don. There's a list of things that you kick, cans, trees, buckets, women...

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: Footballs.

MARTIN: Should never be on a list of anything you that kick. And so there's no reasonable, logical explanation for this in terms of why the league didn't take action sooner. And how come this wasn't prosecuted? I am sitting here as a lawyer trying to figure out what is the district attorney looking at. What is law enforcement looking at when they see this tape?

Why didn't action take place with respect to some kind of criminal charges against Kareem Hunt? I think he should get a second chance. I don't know if he should be allowed to play in the NFL. He has a responsibility, you know, as a player. The NFL has a responsibility. And they told the American people that they were going to handle these matters differently. And they're not.

LEMON: What is the future for Kareem Hunt, Donte?

[22:55:07] STALLWORTH: You know what, Don, I think with -- you know in this MeToo moment and unfortunately with the circumstances that happened with Kareem Hunt, and then accompanying -- the video accompanying what had already been reported back in January, February, I don't expect to see him -- I personally don't expect to see him on the field again.

And who knows what the punishment that Roger Goodell decides to levy down now that Kareem Hunt is on the exemption list. But I think maybe, you know, after this season, maybe next year if he's rehabilitated himself and hopefully he goes and seeks some counseling, speaks to people. But not only that, I think he needs to go and speak to people who have been victims of domestic violence to understand the severity of the situation.

It's not just him being in a bubble, you know? This is not just an NFL issue. This is a societal problem. And I think if he goes and tries to -- tries to reconcile, you know, the things that were on that videotape and try to get a better understanding of who he is as a person and try to be better. He'll probably get a shot next year.

LEMON: Yeah. Thank you, both. I appreciate your time. I appreciate it.

MARTIN: Thanks, Don.

LEMON: The President is raging on Twitter against those he thinks have turned on him and praising those he feels are loyal. And this is just the beginning of what looks to be a big week in the Mueller investigation. We're going to break it down next.

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