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Don Lemon Tonight

Flynn Has Given Substantial Assistance To Robert Mueller's Investigation; Trump Team Braces For Mueller's Next Move After Flynn Filing; Presidents Gather To Remember George H.W. Bush; Dems Seek Emergency Congressional Hearing on Potential Fraud in North Carolina House Race; Wisconsin and Michigan Republicans Try to Undermine Democratic Election Wins; Trump Organization Subpoenaed for Business Records over President Trump's Take in Trump International Hotel in D.C.; Maryland Files Legal Challenge to Appointment of Acting A.G. Matthew Whitaker; A Look at Some of the Finalists for the CNN Hero of the Year. Aired 11-12a ET

Aired December 05, 2018 - 23:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[23:00:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DON LEMON, CNN HOST: This is CNN TONIGHT. I'm Don Lemon. Anticipation building over what's next in the Mueller investigation in the wake of the Special Counsel's memo regarding Michael Flynn. Mueller's team has recommended Flynn serve no prison time due to what they called substantial assistance provided by President Trump's former National Security Adviser. It is impossible to know what Flynn has disclosed, but the Special Counsel's office called it valuable firsthand information in the investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 election.

Flynn is one of seven people who pleaded guilty in that investigation. And we'll learn more about another one of them, Paul Manafort on Friday in a new court filing from the Special Counsel expected to shed more, some more light on what the former Trump campaign manager did to breach his plea agreement. Lots to talk about.

Anne Milgram is here, so is Josh Campbell and Steve Hall. Steve joins us have via Skype, by the way. Good evening. Thank you all for joining us here. Anne, I'm going to start with you. When you look at the Special Counsel's filing on Michael Flynn, is collusion still on the table you think despite everything we have heard from this White House?

ANNE MILGRAM, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Absolutely. I don't have any question that -- I mean, look, we've been hearing for months now that the President and others have said there's no collusion -- there is no collusion and so I think that is their response to everything. The Flynn filing is telling for a couple of reasons.

One it talks specifically about the Russia investigation. It talks about his assistance in other investigations, not one, but multiple investigations. And filing 19 meetings, that is a lot of meetings. He is got information on something important related to Russia. I mean, you just don't sit as a former federal and state prosecutor, you would not sit with somebody 19 times unless there's a lot there to learn.

LEMON: And take present time off the --

MILGRAM: And take and such in even no time.

LEMON: So the President likes to say no collusion, right. At one point he switched from, well if it was even collusion, that's not a crime, I mean, but what are we talking about? We're really talking about I think is conspiracy, right, is a crime?

MILGRAM: Exactly. Conspiracy is a crime. I think collusion is the shorthand, because they could be conspiring to be guilty of this crime, it could relate to the President doesn't have to have help to hack the actual e-mails that the Russian government was involved in hacking. It could be related to the timing of the release of e-mails, coordination with the Presidential campaign. There's so many different ways and so people started to shorthand it with collusion, but it basically means conspiring with somebody to do something.

LEMON: Josh, we cannot forget that President Trump recently fired Jeff Sessions put in the acting A.G. Matthew Whitaker who Democrats essentially see as a stooge. What's going on inside the Justice Department with Whitaker as it investigation just chugs along here?

JOSH CAMPBELL, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: So, you hit on it. Obviously he was the subject of a lot of reporting that we were doing. This baggage that he essentially brings to the office of the acting Attorney General and that is his past comments on the investigation actually being highly critical of Mueller.

I think that and you know, this may be possibly a positive sign that the more Mueller is able to do his work, the more we see filings and the more we see documents, the more we see enforcement actions that tells us that Whitaker isn't necessarily trying to impede his work, because presumably as the person overseeing this, he would have to approve or at least know what's going on as Mueller moves forward.

I suspect that part of that is because a lot of attention that was paid to his past making a lot of these statements known to the public essentially kind of boxing him in, that if he was brought in to take the legs out from under Mueller, now there's the giant spotlight on that. I think the last part, Don, is with this new Democrat House majority coming in he also knows that any action that I think he takes to impede Mueller's work is going to be subject to further investigation by House Democrats. We're not out of the woods yet, but I see this as a positive sign the more Mueller is able to do his work.

LEMON: So, Steve Hall, despite the redactions, Mueller does reveal that Flynn was helpful in talking about these links between the campaign and then the transition team and then the Russian government. What was Russia's end game here?

STEVE HALL, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, Don, I think Russia right now if anything is gnashing their teeth over how close they came to a truly to my view hair-raising possibility. Which is that, from the moment that Flynn lied publicly about what he talked about to the Russians, the Russians of course, knew that, because they were the one that he was talking to. Which immediately gives them of course, leverage over Flynn.

[23:05:00] That kind of leverage for somebody who is going to be the national security adviser to the United States of America inside the White House discussing not only the highest classification of information, but also the plans and intensions of the U.S. Government to have a spy, to have somebody they hold leverage over who is obliged to report back to them unless he wants his career to end, that is the stuff that movies are made of.

It is absolute phenomenal for them to have that kind of spy inside the White House, which if this had continued it's possible that is what the outcome could have been. Again, it raises hairs on the back of my neck from a counter intelligence perspective, I can tell you.

LEMON: And Trump defended Judge Andrew Napolitano over on Fox news, says that he expects Don Jr. to be indicted. We played that sound in the last hour. We fixed -- there is a graphic there, we fix it to clarify what he said about Jared Kushner and Jerome Corsi. Here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANDREW NAPOLITANO, FOX NEWS SENIOR JUDICIAL ANALYST: The President himself should be extremely uncomfortable about this, not for his son or son-in-law as much as for himself.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So do you think that any of Trump's inner circle is now going to get indicted?

NAPOLITANO: Yes. I don't know who, but I do know that Donald Jr. has told friends he expects to be indicted.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you expect that he would be indicted?

NAPOLITANO: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And what about Jared Kushner?

NAPOLITANO: I don't know about Jared Kushner. I think Jerry Corsi is going to be indicted. I don't know about Roger Stone. Of course, he is been advertising all over the place.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He is basically begging for an indictment.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: So he expects Don Jr., he is not sure about Jared Kushner or Roger Stone and you know, what he said about Jerome Corsi. Do you agree?

MILGRAM: I think there's a few things that are worth pointing out. Don Jr. has apparently as has been publicly reported been telling people that he expects to be indicted. It's also been reported that he testified before Congress. He also gave statements to the FBI. We just saw Michael Cohen plead guilty for lying about the Trump tower in Moscow.

It is all together possible that Donald Trump Jr. gave statements to the FBI that were false and as related to the Trump tower meeting with the Russian lawyer or as to other things. So I think it's very possible that there could be a false statement case that is brought against him.

As for Kushner, Kushner is an important piece of the Michael Flynn arrangement. We don't know whether Kushner exactly what his liability may be, but there is something that happened early on before Flynn pled guilty. They interviewed Mueller team interviewed Kushner for literally an hour.

And what they did -- they did that to lock him down on what Flynn was telling them. And so I've always been curious as to they did that very limited interview which probably meant that they had more to ask him, but they just wanted to see what he would say about what Flynn was telling them before they pled Flynn out.

So there's more story for Jared Kushner. I don't know what it is. And again, we're all on the outside. But there are these little breadcrumbs that we're following and by the way, I agree completely on Jerome Corsi. I mean, there's no question that he was probably brought in and told look, here's what we're going to charge you with. You can plead guilty and cooperate. And so I don't think that will be a surprise.

LEMON: They will really are playing three-dimensional chess here, right? Josh, we learned that Flynn provided quote, documents and communications, to the Special Counsel. Are we will essentially being told he provided corroborating evidence?

CAMPBELL: So we don't yet no because again, this is so opaque. You look at the redactions and you look at all the things that Mueller is doing that we don't know. I will tell that in order for the government to actually agree to you know, plea dealing or let someone cooperate they have to bring something to the table. It can't be them coming and tell you something that you already know. They have to have some kind of utility.

And a lot of times that includes not just what you saw and what you heard, but you have corroborating information, do you have e-mails? Do you have any other type of media, any type of evidence that we can use and not for nothing, that also includes evidence moving forward?

So, we know that he was as part of this arrangement one of the stipulations that you know, possibly wearing a wire and all the things you would do with a person who is now working for the government. Again, whether that was able to lock in corroborating information in order to go after additional subjects, that we don't know, but we do know based on this and reading the tea leaves that he is of great utility to the government as indicated in that filing yesterday.

LEMON: Yes, because if you look at everything they said he did wrong, you know, like he lied and everything he is accused of doing lies and the sentence that he could have gotten, they say -- I mean, just think about that one. Steve, so you look at this from a counter intel point of view. A lot of people are wondering how a man with Flynn's background could have a fall from grace like this one. How does this happen?

HALL: It's an excellent question. There's a theme that is been emerging a little bit that I've read and seen a little bit about how maybe the fact that you know, Michael Flynn was a former military officer, former general officer, all of a sudden he had you know, a moment of conscience and that is what he is being rewarded for. You know, in my experience, integrity is not something that just sort of deserts you.

[23:10:00] You either have it or you don't. And I think the course of his career will show you that yes, there were good things that did he, but there was an integrity problem all along. Yet real problems at DIA and at the end of the day is a military intelligence officer. He should know so much better than having these types of dealings with the Russians.

So, to say that there was something to do with his loyalty as an American soldier, I think denigrates other American military intelligence officers and indeed the U.S. Military overall. He is doing this not because he remembered that he was a loyal American who once served this country. He is doing it because he wants to keep from going to jail and wants to spare his family. That is a lack of integrity.

LEMON: You hit the nail on the head there. It says as much in the indictment in this memo that he should have known better, but just real quickly, he was a conspiracy theorist before this.

HALL: You know, I think people who deal with Russia and people who are dealing in counter intelligence matters both of which he did, you sometimes you're drawn to the dark side, because there are a lot of conspiracies out there, but again, somebody who is a general in military intelligence should definitely know better and be able to make the distinction between what is a real threat, what is a real possibility and what is just malarkey. Again, the integrity issues is what strikes me.

LEMON: Steve.

CAMPBELL: I don't think we can lose sight of Don, just quickly, I mean, the fact, that if you look at his statements Michael Flynn, I mean, this is someone who is called for the extra judicial imprisonment of one of his political opponents. He is talking about Secretary Clinton.

And I don't think it can be lost on any of us what Bob Mueller is saying is look, this is how the rule of law works in America. This is what prosecutorial discretion looks like. This is what fairness looks like. And it's just a striking comparison when you see a lot of conspiracies and what's been pedaled.

LEMON: He led the lock her up chant. A lot of folks out there are now saying lock him up. Thank you all. I appreciate it. President Trump came face-to-face with all the living former

Presidents at the state funeral today for George H.W. Bush. And the moment was just about as awkward as you'd expect.

[23:15:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: President George H.W. Bush is home tonight. His body will lie in repose in Houston, ahead of his burial tomorrow. World leaders, dignitaries and every living President and first lady bid good-bye to the 41st President at his state funeral in Washington earlier today. It was also the first time that President Trump came face-to-face with his predecessors since his inauguration. And there were some moments that struck a lot of people as awkward.

Let us discuss now. Sally Quinn is here as well as Tim Naftali. Thank you so much for joining us, both of you. Tim, I watched you today. You were fantastic. Thank you so much for the tone you struck and just what you said about the former President and his family. You know, it was the moment a lot of people, Tim, were waiting to see. Who do you think was more uncomfortable, the President or the other former Presidents and first ladies?

TIMOTHY NAFTALI, CNN PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: Well, from body language, I thought that.

LEMON: The audience at home, but go on.

NAFTALI: Yes, well, Hillary Clinton, she was looking straight ahead. So if Donald Trump had even attempted to reach over to her, I'm not sure what she would have done, but Donald Trump did not reach over to shake Bill Clinton's hand and Bill Clinton looked like he was ready to shake Donald Trump's hand. So I'd say it's a tie between Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton.

LEMON: Hmm. Interesting. So Sally, I want to point out this strange moment. So the President entered the National Cathedral with his coat on. Handed it over to a uniformed soldier. Listen, I don't know how big a deal it is. It just struck me as awkward. Why did he do it?

SALLY QUINN, CONTRIBUTOR, "WASHINGTON POST": What was he doing with his coat on? He came in a limo. He should have left the coat in the limo. You know, he obviously has a staff. And the staff tells him what to do and then he goes rogue. And I can't imagine that somebody didn't say you know, you want to leave your coat in the car, sir. Then he sort of took it off and it was like tossing it to the coat lady. This poor guy standing there clearly having no idea what to do. It was just a very awkward moment. But I thought the whole front row was awkward.

It was just cringe making to watch all of them together and I mean, know all the sort of intrigues and ins and outs and the drama between all of them, you know, Hilary hardly spoke to Jimmy Carter. I didn't see her speak to Jimmy Carter. She clearly didn't want to speak to Donald Trump. You know, there's a lot of tension between the Obamas and the Clintons. Although they were yakking (ph) it up a little bit. Then when Trump came in. LEMON: The entire -- the entire mood changed. I got a lot to cover.

So, let me ask you about this. I just point out this moment, the apostle's creed being recited. President Trump and the first lady not reading. Everyone had the thing in their happened, but they're not. What was that about, Sally?

QUINN: Well, it's odd because you know, he is this supposed religious person who has a spiritual adviser Paula White and he had them speak, pray at his inauguration and he has all these evangelicals around. So, I thought that was bizarre that he didn't even try to read it. It was as though he was not part of the ceremony, but Don, what I wanted to say was, you know, Trump has made a point of making everyone else feel like an outsider or the other.

You know, he is denigrated blacks and women and Jews and gays and Muslims and Mexicans and the disabled. And I had the sense today that he was the other in that room, because there's no one in that room who hasn't been touched in some way by his anger and his criticism. I think he felt it. I think he was the most uncomfortable person there because he felt like he didn't belong.

[23:20:07] LEMON: Do you agree with that, Tim?

NAFTALI: Well, listen, I agree that he has presented himself as the anti-President. I was struck in his inaugural address that he didn't refer to any previous President as if he was the first and only President of the United States. And in his speeches ever since, he rarely talks about our history in anything, but critical terms.

So he is basically said to every other President in that pew, you're terrible. You have failed America. We have lost because of you. So he is never attempted to pretend to be part of a club, because he doesn't respect the other Presidents. So from the very get-go, he is never wanted to be part of a President's club. And it showed today.

QUINN: Tim, I think what one of the things you're saying is he doesn't respect the presidency.

LEMON: Yes.

NAFTALI: Yes.

LEMON: And there's a difference between being the President and being Presidential. Right? And I think that the former Presidents and first ladies respected the office of the presidency today, but not necessarily the President. And that is why I said to Chris, I don't think I would have shook his hand. Go on, Tim

NAFTALI: I was just going to say, that is why George Herbert Walker Bush wanted Donald Trump at the funeral. Because he respects -- respected the office of the President. You know, there are people in that pew who do not as Sally mentioned, there are President whose do not get along.

Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton do not like each other, but they would shake hands for the sake of the office of the presidency. And that is the difference with Donald Trump. Donald Trump doesn't believe he owes it to the office of the presidency to act in any way that doesn't please him.

LEMON: I got to play this, because I think that was a -- this was a touching moment and I loved their friendship when President George H.W. Bush greeted the former First Lady Michelle Obama, hand her a candy, very warm relationship they had. We saw it before, it was at the dedication of the Smithsonian museum of African-American history. Look at that. And also at the funeral of John McCain when they were sitting there and they were passing candy and talking. This transcends partisanship.

QUINN: Well, the thing about it is, Don, that you're absolutely right. It does transcend partisanship, but Donald Trump is not part of any group. He is not a Democrat. He is not a Republican. He doesn't respect the other people who were there. And they don't respect him. And I think that it was just palpable in that pew that they didn't really want to have anything to do with him.

LEMON: Can you blame them?

QUINN: No, you know, but it was hard. And I think that George Bush, I think George Bush invited him, because he was a graceful man and he was open-hearted. And I think that it was the right thing to do because I'll tell you why.

LEMON: Maybe in his wisdom. Hold on. I will let you finish, but I think maybe in his wisdom, he realized that maybe this President would sit there and realize the gravity of the office and that he is part of a club that most people don't get to be a part of. And that it's the presidency of the United States of America, and maybe he should conduct himself as such. Go on, Sally.

QUINN: What I was going to say is that I think that by inviting him, it made it not about him. If he had not been invited, he would have been at the White House tweeting away. And he would have been a distraction and it would have been a diversion. And by including him, he couldn't do that. He had to be part of it.

And I think that that was a wise thing. I also think that it was impossible even though, I mean the McCain funeral was a gigantic rant against Trump, but I think this was not. Nobody did this on purpose, but you couldn't help, but make the comparison when everybody kept saying this is the most honest person, the most decent person, the most loyal, the most loving.

LEMON: Everything they said was Trump was not.

NAFTALI: But you know they would have said the same things about George Herbert Walker Bush if Hillary was President or Obama was President is the fact that we're in this weird time.

LEMON: It was a stark contrast. Tim, I want to get this in. I got to get this in before we ran out of time. This is a former Vice President Biden. He was at the funeral. Tonight he is out speaking about hate in America. Some pretty strong stuff. Watch this. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, FORMER VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We are in a battle for the soul of this nation. We have to recognize trend lines are moving in the wrong direction. Earlier this year, the anti- defamation league published a report of anti-Semitic incidents that rose nearly 60 percent alone in 2017.

[23:25:05] The largest one-year increase since they started keeping records in 1970. That is not an accident. It's not an accident. Our leadership is giving license, giving license to this prejudice.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Listen, Tim, it's pretty clear who he is talking about. He said our leadership. It is pretty clear who is he is talking about here, isn't it?

NAFTALI: There is no doubt. Listen, look at the behavior of the Saudis. Look at the behavior of the Russians. We are sending a signal to the world we don't care about human rights. We are -- our President doesn't understand the power of his words and of his conduct. We are sending a signal that is absolutely contradictory to the American creed that John Meacham talked about in his eulogy of George Herbert Walker Bush today.

LEMON: Yes. Thank you both. I appreciate your time. Republicans trying to curb the power of incoming Democratic governors in Michigan and Wisconsin. An investigation into election fraud in North Carolina. And the North Carolina race that may have helped the Republican win. What ever happened to playing by the rules?

[23:30:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Elections have consequences or they're supposed to at least, but what happens when the people who are voted out don't want to accept those consequences?

I'm going to start with Wisconsin where the Republican-held state legislature has now passed a series of measures aimed at tying the hands of the incoming Democratic governor and attorney general.

It looks like lame-duck Republican Governor Scott Walker will sign that legislation. Protesters have made their way to the state House, and last night Democratic Governor-elect Tony Evers told me how he sees it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TONY EVERS, DEMOCRATIC GOVERNOR-ELECT: We won fair and square. We won on the issues. We won fully knowing what I'm about and what Scott Walker is about. And I see this as essentially a Republican majority trying to repudiate and turn back the clock and turn back the clock. That's just not going to happen. We're working hard to make sure it doesn't happen, but it's something that I think is an embarrassment for the state of Wisconsin. (END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: That is Wisconsin. Republicans in Michigan are trying the same thing, using a lame-duck session to rewrite the rules for incoming Democratic leaders.

Democratic Governor-elect Gretchen Whitmer along with the Democratic secretary of state and attorney general all won last month, making it the first time in 30 years that Democrats would hold all three top positions in the state.

But the GOP-controlled legislature is working on measures to strip the newly elected Democrats of their power and even pass legislation that is the opposite of what Democrats campaigned on and won on.

And then there's North Carolina. In that state, there are lots of signs pointing to election fraud in the ninth congressional district, a race that a Republican won by 905 votes. Well, voters in the district have submitted signed affidavit saying people came to their houses, promised to deliver their ballots for counting or even fill them out for them. That's illegal.

There are also people claiming on camera that they collected ballots from voters not knowing what happened, what would happened to them next. Also illegal. So here's what one of those people told our affiliate WSOC.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Like I said, I don't know what happened after I dropped them off.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So you don't know if certainty whether they were sent to the elections office.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, I don't. No, I don't.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Again, totally illegal. That woman says that she was paid by a Republican operative McCrae Dowless, well-known for the wrong reasons in North Carolina political circles. Dowless has a history of being accused of improper voter activity in the district. And one of those sworn affidavits says he claimed he would receive a $40,000 bonus from the Republican campaign if the Republican won.

Well, the Republican did win. But the North Carolina State Board of Elections and Ethics, they voted last week against certifying those results. The allegations are now part of a criminal investigation and if the elections board finds truth to any of the allegations of election fraud, there could be a new and fair election.

And this is new tonight. CNN is reporting that authorities are investigating an allegation that more than a thousand absentee ballots from likely Democratic voters in North Carolina were destroyed.

Let's discuss now. David Swerdlick is here, also Andy Serwer. Also, Anne Sorensen (ph). Listen, this is -- pardon me for that, Adam.

ADAM SERWER, STAFF WRITER, "THE ATLANTIC": No worries.

LEMON: This is outrageous. I mean, we always talk about election fraud, this administration always talking about election fraud, and here we have in North Carolina election fraud possibly happening and it is done by the Republicans. David, what on earth is going on?

DAVID SWERDLICK, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: So Don, you have a small problem and then a larger probFlem. The small problem is, as you just laid out, in an election where it's won by the Republican by 905 votes, and if as the reporting suggests there may be a thousand people whose ballots were tossed out or never turned in, do the math.

[23:35:02] That could have made the difference in the election. If you go one step further from some of the other reporting, if there's a disproportionate in number of people of color, African-Americans and American-Indians, who among those ballots that were tossed out, then you have a situation where the election fraud was targeted in a racial way. They're still investigating this.

But it suggests that one, there may be this illegal activity but bigger picture, this idea that in this case, Republicans rather than looking at a loss and saying we're going to try and reach out and win voters of color --

LEMON: Yeah.

SWERDLICK: -- their response is to go to voters and say we're just going to throw your votes away because we don't think you're citizens whose votes should count.

LEMON: And on top of that, you've got Michigan and Wisconsin. It is really outrageous. Adam, Republicans including the president loudly accuse Democrats of voter fraud, multiple races in 2018, even in 2016. Do they need to take a look in the mirror?

SERWER: Well, I mean, yes, but not necessarily just because of this. I think what we're seeing in Michigan and Wisconsin in particular is an outgrowth of the widespread belief in the Republican Party that Democratic political victories simply aren't legitimate. They believe that Democrats cheat or that the constituencies that support Democrats are not legitimate constituencies because they're manipulated.

You know, you frequently hear Republicans talk about black Democrats being on "plantation." And so this sort of retroactively justifies attempts to disenfranchise them or in this case --

LEMON: In their minds.

SERWER: -- in their minds. And in North Carolina, we're seeing sort of an extreme case where a lot of elderly black Democratic-leaning voters were targeted essentially so their votes would be destroyed.

And I think the only way you can engage -- that's obviously very extreme, that's not happening everywhere, but it is related to this larger belief that, you know, the constituencies that vote for Democrats are not legitimate and therefore Democratic political victories are not legitimate.

And saying that it's illegal immigrants or there's voter fraud in black neighborhoods is just a way of justifying to yourself that belief in a way that makes you -- makes you -- allows you to believe that it is not racist to say that.

LEMON: It makes you a hypocrite --

SWERDLICK: Right.

LEMON: -- is what it is. It's complete hypocrisy and then trying to fix it in your mind that what you're doing is right. If we stick to, David, of Wisconsin and Michigan --

SWERDLICK: Yeah.

LEMON: -- what happened to the peaceful transfer of power and the belief in the constitution and the ultimate right to vote and that every vote counts in this country? Don't Republicans, isn't that their mantra?

SWERDLICK: In theory and if you're going to have a peaceful transfer of power, you've got to have some power to transfer. And what you have here is a situation where Democrats in Wisconsin -- excuse me, Republicans lost elections statewide in Wisconsin and Michigan, but instead of transferring power, they're taking power away from those incoming administrations. It effectively undermines democracy.

I can just want to read one quote, Don, from the Republican head of the state assembly in Wisconsin. He said -- this guy's name is Robin Voss. We're going to have a liberal governor who is going to enact liberal policies.

LEMON: Yeah, we played that soundbite last night.

SWERDLICK: Yeah, right. And so the response to that is, yes, that's who won the election.

(LAUGHTER)

SWERDLICK: If you don't like that, then go out and win the next election.

LEMON: Adam, isn't that in a sense, aren't they the deep state then? Isn't that the definition of a deep state?

SERWER: Well, I would say that the blueprint here I think is actually -- and this is obviously less extreme than what has happened in the past, but the blueprint for this is the redemption governments after reconstruction which rewrote their state constitutions and passed laws in order to specifically disenfranchise black voters and stripped them of their power.

In this case, it's not as extreme, but they are -- some of the laws that they're passing are targeting voting, Wisconsin, for example, restricted early voting significantly.

I mean, what they're doing, it's one thing to say a chief executive should not have certain powers. It's another thing to say the chief executive should only have certain powers when they belong to my party --

LEMON: I got to run.

SERWER: -- and that is simply undermining democracy.

LEMON: It's not as extreme but just as blatant. Thank you both. I appreciate it.

SWERDLICK: Thanks, Don.

SERWER: Thank you for having me.

LEMON: We'll be right back.

[23:40:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Tonight, 13 business entities within the Trump Organization have been served subpoenas in an ongoing lawsuit challenging President Trump's interest in the Trump International Hotel in Washington, D.C.

The luxury property, three blocks from the White House, opened shortly before Donald Trump's election in 2016. The lawsuit's been filed by attorneys general of the district of Columbia and Maryland who claim the president is in violation of the constitution's ban on emoluments or payments from foreign governments.

In other words, the lawsuit claims that through his stake in the hotel, the president is profiting from his foreign -- from foreign governments. Trump International has become a favorite gathering spot for lobbyists and others who are interested in doing business with the Trump administration.

The suit claims that that puts other hotels and businesses at a disadvantage. "The Washington Post" reporting tonight that shortly after Trump's election, lobbyists representing the government of Saudi Arabia, paid for an estimated 500 nights at the Trump International over a three-month period at a cost of $270,000. It was part of a campaign offering U.S. military veterans a free trip to Washington.

[23:45:01] Many of the vets tell the Post they didn't know the Saudis picked up the tab. I want to bring in now, Brian Frosh. He is the attorney general for Maryland, one of the two A.G.s who filed that emolument lawsuit. He joins me now. Good evening, sir. Thank you so much for joining us.

BRIAN FROSH, MARYLAND ATTORNEY GENERAL: Thanks, Don.

LEMON: What exactly are you requesting and what exactly do you hope to get from these subpoenas?

FROSH: Well, again, we don't have to prove that he's violating the emoluments clauses. But, look, look at what's happening with the murder of Mr. Khashoggi in the Saudi embassy and look at what Donald Trump has said about that.

He may be the only person in the western world who continues to defend the Saudi government against the charge that they murdered this Washington Post reporter.

There are may other instances in which he has bent over backwards to help Russia, to help China when he's fighting with all of them but he's also taking unusual positions. The point of the emoluments clause is to ensure that the president puts our interests first, not his own interests.

LEMON: But his team, the president's team has said that the activities that you're suing aren't emoluments but just regular business transactions and that profit from foreign governments are donated to the U.S. Treasury. What's your response to that?

FROSH: He's trying to negotiate the terms of the emoluments clauses. The constitution of the United States is not negotiable. He would like to avoid disclosing what he's receiving and how much he's profiting. And the fact that he's getting payments is what will make him in violation of the emoluments clauses.

LEMON: You also filed a motion challenging Trump's appointment of Matthew Whitaker as acting U.S. attorney general. You said that Sessions' resignation should have led to the deputy attorney general, Rod Rosenstein, becoming the attorney general. Can you give us an update on your suit?

FROSH: Yes. We filed that motion in a separate lawsuit in which we are defending the Affordable Care Act. We're arguing that it's constitutional and the Justice Department has refused to defend it. And so who the attorney general is is extremely important.

In that lawsuit, we filed a motion because we sued Jeff Sessions as the attorney general. He's no longer the attorney general. There's no dispute about that. But the proper person has to be named in that lawsuit. We filed a motion to do that and to enjoin Matt Whitaker who is not lawfully the attorney general from carrying out that role. There will be a hearing on that motion on December 19th in federal court in Baltimore.

LEMON: It does seem to be an unusual appointment. Do you think Whitaker was appointed for political reason to try to curtail the Mueller investigation, Brian?

FROSH: Well, there's certainly that possibility. And we know that he is very unlikely to pass muster in front of the U.S. Senate. His qualifications are very thin.

[23:50:01] He has expressed really extreme views about Marbury versus Madison, the seminal case on the power of the judiciary in the United States, and he argues that this 240-year-old case was wrongly decided. It's been the foundation of American law since the constitution was written.

LEMON: He can only legally do it unless appointed, unless he goes to the process for 200 some odd days, right?

FROSH: Yeah.

LEMON: Go on.

FROSH: He would have to be nominated to be the attorney general and receive Senate confirmation.

LEMON: So now what, Brian? I mean, you know, do you think your lawsuit is going to go through? He's already served a number of days and the clock is running out.

FROSH: Yes. I mean, we will have a hearing in a couple of weeks. We expect the judge to make a quick decision. But this man is not legally holding the office and he's not qualified to hold the office.

LEMON: Brian Frosh, thank you for your time.

FROSH: Thanks for having me, Don.

LEMON: We'll be right back.

[23:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Thank you for watching. Our coverage will continue. But first, we're just days away from naming our CNN Hero of the Year. Here's a look at some of the finalists.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're humans helping humans and they need our help.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We are truly giving the gift of mobility.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do the best the world has to offer.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We're building something that matters a lot more than we do.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They're heroes today and every day.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is like what it is, what is --

Girls Coding teaches girls how to program. It's all about solving problems.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We serve anybody who has ever raised their hand to defend our constitution.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My vision was to have a home where women could find safety and find themselves.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our first goal was just to create this hospital- based intervention.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I want each and every one of them to feel special. Join Anderson Cooper and Kelly Ripa live as they name the 2018 CNN hero of the year.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Here once again celebrating the best of humanity.

KELLY RIPA, ACTRESS: Don't we need this tonight more than ever?

(APPLAUSE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: CNN heroes, an all-star tribute, Sunday at 8:00 Eastern.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

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