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Don Lemon Tonight
Bipartisan Bill Passed To Avoid Government Shutdown; Trump Wants To Pull Out U.S. Troops In Syria; Veteran General Scolded By Federal Judge; James Comey Alleges Donald Trump Of Having Contempt For The Rule Of Law; Senate Making Sure The Government Is Open Through February 8; William Barr Sent Harsh Memo To Special Counsel Robert Mueller's Investigation. Aired 10-11p ET
Aired December 19, 2018 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(JOINED IN PROGRESS)
[22:00:00] CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST: But remember why that doesn't get the attention that the negativity does. It's not on me. It's not on the media. It's on the president. He doesn't highlight his wins. They don't matter to him the way the fight does.
His mountain-sized minus is his mouth. And as long as the president insists on lying to you and saying divisive things instead of talking up his accomplishments, they're always going to live in the shadows of the darkness that he too often brings to his presidency.
Thank you for watching tonight. "CNN TONIGHT" with Don Lemon starts right now.
DON LEMON, CNN HOST: What was the term you said? You said played you like a fiddle or played--
CUOMO: Played you for a sucker.
LEMON: Yes. Yes.
CUOMO: Not you.
LEMON: No, I know what you mean.
CUOMO: I'm saying the people he made that promise to.
LEMON: Yes. But the people he made that promise to and the other thing that he tweets out every day, just flat-out lies.
CUOMO: Sounded great. The immigration -- the immigration issue was genius for him because he was looking for a way to break into the pack. What can I offer that they won't? And I need it to piss people off.
He's got a great gut for that. When people call him stupid, they make a mistake. He was right on the issue. I'm not saying it was genuine. I'm not saying it was positive. But I'm saying it was effective. The wall was made up. It was a gimmick. They tried it out.
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: But why do you think people buy it? Why do you think, honestly, why do you think people buy it? Because--
(CROSSTALK)
CUOMO: Simple. Strong.
LEMON: -- from the very beginning, from the very beginning, experts and people in the media, people who are doing actual news, not just the Trump news network. Said, listen, that's not the most effective way to solve the immigration or illegal immigration problem. There are a number of different ways. You can do it electronically and on and on and on. But why do you think people bought that despite the facts?
CUOMO: I'll tell you why. Because when you say that, it's legit, but it sounds like this. These people always telling me why nothing can get done. Build a big ass wall. That will keep people out. It's simple. It sounds strong.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: And he seemed to believe it. And he said that Mexico was going to pay for it, and I love that because it's not coming out of my pocket like all the rest of you want to take my money. So that's why it resonated. It just was never real.
LEMON: Mexico is going to pay -- well, remember what the former president said. He used profanities when he said. He's not going to pay for the--
CUOMO: Vicente Fox.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: That's a big man too by the way.
LEMON: He said, I'm not paying for any f-ing wall.
CUOMO: You wouldn't have that conversation right now.
LEMON: Yes. It just -- it just baffles me. I guess it's simple. It's like saying lock her up. it's catchy for sort of the aggrieved crowd. It's, you know, something that you can catch on to and hold on to, but it's not real.
CUOMO: It's not real but you what's going to be--
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: It's a big con.
CUOMO: You know what's going to be real now, and I'm going to love to see how what your take is on it when it becomes made manifest. There is an aspect of this president that people haven't seen yet, and it's going to be very discomfiting for them. This man does not own failure. LEMON: No.
CUOMO: He will never own failure. It is not in his personality makeup. So, when this doesn't happen, Don Lemon, hear me now. This president will never say, all right. I didn't get it done.
LEMON: No.
CUOMO: I tried. I couldn't get it done. He will blame, he will shame--
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: He's going to blame the Democrats and the Republicans. Yes.
CUOMO: He will attack his own. He will lay fire to the whole place before he has to own any failure.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: I promise you that.
LEMON: We didn't get to talk about it, but I did say it. You know what else he doesn't like, Chris?
CUOMO: Us.
LEMON: Well, yes. I said what, not who. He would say, well, you are the what. You're the fake news. But he doesn't like to share the spotlight, right?
He doesn't like to share the narrative. He wants to control it, own it, the podium. Now, look, Nancy Pelosi -- especially Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer, they're controlling the news narrative and what happens in Washington, and they're also part of the spotlight now. They have the microphone.
That is going to be really uncomfortable for him because it's only going to get worse.
CUOMO: Unless for some reason he decides--
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: To actually moderate?
CUOMO: Yes, forget the Republicans. He's not going to moderate. But instead, he's like, you know what, these guys are a bunch of chumps. I'm going to do some deals with the Democrats. That's my best way to get re-elected.
LEMON: That will happen. Watch.
CUOMO: It he does.
LEMON: He likes to win. CUOMO: It will be good for progress. At least you get some stuff done as a function of compromise, God forbid.
LEMON: OK. Hey, Chris, I've got to run because I have some breaking news. OK, I'll see you later. I just -- my producer is talking in my ear.
Let's just show the Senate floor here because we have the breaking news, if you want to roll the breaking news animation. Here's what we're told. We're told the C.R. just passed by a voice vote. It now goes to the House.
So, there you go. You're looking live at the Senate floor now. Senators tonight passing a short-term bill to keep the government open, OK? To keep the government open. Senate passes continuing resolution to keep the government open. You're looking at live pictures of the Senate floor right now.
Now it goes to the House, but I got a whole group of folks here. I have experts, lawmakers. We're going to talk about all of it.
[22:05:04] Plus this, OK? Chris and I were just talking about it. It looks like Donald Trump's bullying is finally backfiring on him today. The president who launched the 'my way or the highway' assault on American institutions from day one, finding out they can still fight back.
He's getting pushback tonight from his own party. Several Republicans on the House intel committees along with Democrats telling CNN that they would be willing to vote tomorrow to give Robert Mueller the transcript to their interview with Roger Stone.
A move that would dramatically raise the legal stakes for Stone and a pretty clear sign that some Republicans finally are done doing the president's bidding on the Mueller investigation. Interesting, huh?
And remember that signed letter of intent to move ahead with negotiations to build Trump tower Moscow signed by Donald Trump, the letter obtained by Chris last night? The letter Rudy Giuliani insisted to our Dana Bash had never been signed, Rudy said.
Well, this is like a home alone moment. Giuliani now telling Dana, quote, "I was wrong in I said it. I haven't seen the quote, but I probably meant to say there was never a deal, much less a signed one."
He probably meant to say? It would be funny except this is the personal attorney for the president of the United States, who when confronted with his own words, he claims that he doesn't know what he said.
But if he said it, he didn't mean it. He doesn't know what he said, but if he said it, he didn't mean it. That sounds like a lot of explanations that we've heard lately. Nope, never heard of it. Sorry. I was wrong. No, no, not that I was wrong. If I said that, that's not what I meant. I meant something else. I'm not sure if I said that, even if you have the tape of them saying it. And remember when the president lied to reporters on Air Force One and
said he knew nothing about Michael Cohen's hush money payment to Stormy Daniels?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. President, did you know about the $130,000 payment to Stormy Daniels?
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: No. No.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why did Michael--
(CROSSTALK) TRUMP: What else?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why did Michael Cohen make this, it if there was no truth to the allegations?
TRUMP: Well, you'll have to ask Michael Cohen. Michael is my -- an attorney, and you'll have to ask Michael Cohen.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you know where he got the money to make that payment?
TRUMP: I don't know, no.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Well, investigators could be pretty interested in this. The Wall Street Journal is reporting tonight that sworn statements by Donald Trump dating back several decades indicate that he has a deep understanding of campaign finance laws. They could also just listen to Trump in his own words talking to Larry King. This is 1999. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I wouldn't run if I didn't think I could win the election. I wouldn't run just to get 21 percent of the vote and say, I got more votes than anybody. It wouldn't do it for me.
LARRY KING, TV HOST: How about campaign finance reform?
TRUMP: I think nobody knows more about campaign finance than I do because I'm the biggest contributor.
KING: But what about reform? Does it feed reform?
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: Well, it's a very--
KING: You're the reform party.
TRUMP: You know what? It's a very complex thing. As an example, I'm allowed to give $1,000 to every senator, right?
KING: Right.
TRUMP: Do you know how little that is? This was 20 years ago, $1,000. I love it because you know, I'm capped out at $1,000 per senator, and they all love me for it. You know, I give them a $1,000--
(CROSSTALK)
KING: But you have soft money, hard money, PAC money.
TRUMP: But no, you have other thing, you have other ways.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Nobody knows more about campaign finance than me. Sounds like Donald Trump knows plenty about campaign finance, a fact that could certainly backfire on him. There's always a tape or a tweet for everything. Did you notice that? And then there's this. The signature promise of the Trump campaign.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Going to be a very tall wall, very strong wall, very powerful wall. It's going to be such a beautiful wall. It's going to be so big. It's going to be so powerful. It's going to be as beautiful as a wall can be. And who's going to pay for the wall?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mexico!
TRUMP: Who's going to pay for the wall?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mexico!
TRUMP: Who?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mexico!
TRUMP: Mexico's going to pay for the wall, and they understand that. We need security. We need the wall. We're going to have it all.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Yes. Big, beautiful wall with a big, beautiful door in it. Remember that? He didn't say a big fence with a gate in it. Big, beautiful wall with a door. Who's going to pay for the wall? Anybody? Who's going to pay for the wall?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mexico!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No one.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right.
LEMON: Doesn't look that way. Two White House aides tell CNN that president -- the president probably has no choice but to knuckle under to Congress, abandoning the wall and signing a temporary funding measure to avoid a government shutdown on Friday.
[22:10:08] And he's on his way to Mar-a-Lago for an extended Florida vacation. Bad optics much? Other sources are telling CNN tonight the president is increasingly sensitive to the criticism that he's backing down on the wall after saying this just last week.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I am proud to shut down the government for border security, Chuck. I will take the mantle. I will be the one to shut it down.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Not so much. Instead, he's caving. The president just yesterday tweeted that he is building what he calls "artistically designed steel slats that you can see through." That, by the way, is not a wall. It's a fence. And the president doesn't have the money for it.
As for his claim that Mexico will pay for the wall, now the president says that the money will come from his new trade deal with Mexico and Canada, a deal that has not been ratified, is far from a sure thing, and has absolutely no provision to spend money on a wall.
And then there's the president's stunning decision today to ignore his own military and advisers and abruptly order American troops out of Syria. The White House putting out a video tonight falsely claiming, in spite of everything his own military has told the president, falsely claiming to have defeated ISIS.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: And we have won against ISIS. We've beaten them, and we've beaten them badly. We've taken back the land, and now it's time for our troops to come back home.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Does that remind you of anything? Mission accomplished, anyone? And it is important to know that rather than, I don't know, maybe addressing the nation, the commander in chief chose to put out a White House-produced video, after tweeting this morning, quote, "we have defeated ISIS in Syria. My only reason for being there during the Trump presidency."
OK. Congress and senior officials in the Trump administration are furious. One official telling CNN's Jake Tapper tonight, "senior officials across the administration agree that the president's decision by tweet will recklessly put American and allied lives in danger around the world. Take the pressure off of ISIS, allowing them to reconstitute, and hand a strategic victory to our Syrian, Iranian and Russian adversaries. It's a mistake of colossal proportions, and the president fails to see how it will endanger our country."
That is a stunning denunciation of the president from his own administration. Also, from senior members of his own party, this. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM, (R) SOUTH CAROLINA: Everybody was offended by the fact that we read about it in the paper. I have not found one person, national security-wise, who believes it's a good idea to remove the 2,200 troops. If Obama had made this decision, Republicans would be all over him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: So, the president who once said this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN CORNYN (R), TEXAS: It would empower Iran or other countries in a way that ultimately would be detrimental to us. I think this is going to provoke some hearings, some further dialogue to try to put our collective heads together to figure this out.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: He is getting pushback tonight from his own administration and party. Now about the economy. The thing this president has relied on to distract from anything that goes wrong in his administration. Not such good news there either.
The Dow closed at its lowest point of the year today after the Feds -- after the Fed, I should say, raised rates, going against the president's warning. And don't forget it was only yesterday -- yesterday -- that the patented Trump mix of political spin and outright lies went up in smoke in courtrooms in Washington and New York.
Former top Trump Adviser, Michael Flynn admitting he knowingly lied to the FBI. It wasn't ambushed. It wasn't set up. He knowingly lied to the FBI by his own admission. As New York's attorney general accused the Trump family charity of what she called a shocking pattern of illegality and functioning as little more than a checkbook to serve Mr. Trump's business and political interests.
[22:14:57] The New York Times editorial board sums it up pretty well, and this is a quote. "It's fitting that despite all his bluster and threats, a president whose demonstrated such contempt for the rule of law is finding it so formidable."
Some have argued that the case against the president ultimately won't be decided in the courts. It will be in the political process. And to that point, we notice what was on the front page of the Washington Post exactly 20 years ago. This is 20 years ago. "The Washington Post." Take a good look, everybody. "Clinton impeached." House approves articles charging perjury, obstruction."
The Democrats take over the House in the New Year, and so far, they are keeping a lid on impeachment talk. So far.
Our breaking news tonight, the Senate passing a continuing resolution to keep the government open through February 8th. The bill goes to the House next. Lots to talk about tonight. Max Boot, Catherine Rampell, Philip Bump. We're going to dig into it next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: The president's constant assault on American institutions may be backfiring on him tonight as he gets pushback from Congress, from the courts, the military and even members of his own administration.
I want to talk about this and more with Max Boot, the author of "The Corrosion of Conservatism: Why I Left the Right," Catherine Rampell, Philip Bump here as well.
[22:19:58] We're going to get to all of that. But let's talk about the breaking news that's coming from the Senate floor tonight. I want to talk about the C.R., the continuing resolution that was just passed, temporary until February 8th. The government is going to be funded. The president, is he going to sign off on this? He's not happy about it, is he?
PHILIP BUMP, NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT, "THE WASHINGTON POST": It's interesting because we've seen in the past, he made this -- there was a similar situation earlier this year or last year in which he was presented with a bill to keep the government open. And he expressed great frustration at it because he'd basically seen on Fox News that everyone was mad at him for signing the thing.
He expressed a lot of frustration. He said, I'm never going to sign one of these bills again. I don't see how he doesn't sign this thing, but this may be a thing where he suddenly decides to put his foot down.
CATHERINE RAMPELL, OPINION COLUMNIST, "THE WASHINGTON POST": Well, also if it's only a temporary fix, it means he gets to have this fight again when Democrats are more visibly in power. Right?
LEMON: Yes.
RAMPELL: And so, that might serve his own interests a little bit better.
LEMON: He won't have the House. He won't have the Senate and the White House. He won't have all three of those branches to get his wall, which he should have gotten already. That won't happen.
MAX BOOT, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Yes. And so, he's coming up with these cockamamy ideas of how we're already paying for the wall through this renegotiated trade agreement, which is a logic that only Donald Trump understands, and now threatening also to use the U.S. military to build the wall, which would be unconstitutional because they have no authorization to do that.
So, bottom line, I wouldn't take seriously anything he says, including what he said last week about forcing the government shutdown.
LEMON: All right. Let's move on. I want to talk about Syria now because this Trump announcement in Syria has blindsided everybody. I just want to read again what a senior administration official told Jake Tapper.
He said, "Senior officials across the administration agree that the president's decision by tweet will recklessly put American and allied lives in danger around the world, take the pressure off of ISIS, allowing them to reconstitute and hand a strategic victory to our Syrian, Iranian and Russian adversaries. It is a mistake of colossal proportions, and the president fails to see how it is will endanger our country."
OK. So, let's look at what's being said here. Reckless, colossal mistake, endanger the country, put lives at risk. It's coming from inside the administration.
BOOT: Yes, because there is nobody who knows anything about the situation in Syria who recommends doing this. This is being done over the objections of his secretary of state, his national security adviser, his secretary of defense.
Remember, just three months ago in September, the administration announced a policy of keeping U.S. troops in Syria indefinitely to contain Iran. And now three months later, we suddenly wake up to this tweet. There is no policy process. This hit everybody out of the blue. There is no way you can justify this on policy grounds.
This is a Christmas gift to America's enemies. This will help ISIS. This will help Russia. This will help Iran. This will help Bashar al- Assad. And this will hurt Israel and our Kurdish ally.
LEMON: Philip, I want you to weigh in on this. Is this one reason that he did a video instead of coming out and telling the American people about it himself?
BUMP: Yes. I mean, I'm not sure why he did the video. He's been doing a lot of these videos. But it's fascinating to compare this when you look, for example, what President Obama did when he was announcing scale backs of troops. He did that speech to the nation. He made the case. He had a team prepared to argue why this made sense as a drawback. He did all the things one expects a president to do. That this was done.
I mean, obviously, there are certainly foreign policy ramifications to it, but it also just as another reinforcement of how different this White House operates with the American people. Just a complete disregard for trying to explain why this is a rational policy beyond this ostensible defeat of ISIS, which anyone you speak with will say isn't the case.
LEMON: Catherine, I want to bring you in here because you have said a number of times on this program and other programs that don't be -- don't -- the stock market is not the barometer of the economy, right, because not everybody has stocks.
RAMPELL: Among other reasons, Yes. LEMON: Among other reasons. You warned you live by the sword, you die
by the sword. And then today the stock market, bad news for this president?
RAMPELL: Absolutely. Look, it was always an idiotic idea for Trump to hold up the stock market as the proper metric of success of his administration, not only because presidents don't actually control stock markets but also because even if they did, he did not -- he does not compare favorably to Obama.
If you look at where the S&P 500 was at this point in Barack Obama's presidency, it was up like 46 percent, and under Trump it's up like 11 percent. And of course, what comes up can also go down.
So, look, this was a dumb move for him from the beginning, and the only metric -- the only metric on which the American people regard this president favorably is on the economy. And once he loses the economy, if he does -- and I'm not saying that we are, you know, due for an immediate downturn. But certainly, there are warning signs at the very least right now because of the stock market amongst other things, you know? I don't know how he maintains any semblance of power.
LEMON: All right. Stand by, everyone. Stay with me. Facts matter. Is the president finally starting to learn that? How his conspiracy theories are being debunked one after the other. We're going to talk about that next.
[22:25:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: President Trump and his top aides have been routinely ignoring the truth and pushing phony conspiracy theories. Facts don't seem to matter to the Trump administration at all. But they do matter elsewhere, especially in the American criminal justice system.
And Federal Judge Emmet Sullivan made that very clear when he formally accepted Michael Flynn's guilty plea while postponing his sentencing.
In court, an angry judge asked Flynn if he believed he was entrapped when he lied to the FBI. He asked him flat out if he believed he was entrapped when he was interviewed without a defense attorney present. Flynn's response, no.
But incredibly, Sarah Sanders then made this claim at the White House press briefing. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SARAH HUCKABEE SANDERS, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: The FBI broke standard protocol in the way that they came in and ambushed General Flynn and, in the way, that they questioned him and in the way that they encouraged him not to have White House counsel's office present.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: She knew better. Wrong. Flynn wasn't ambushed. He told the court he wasn't entrapped. Sanders is just ignoring the facts right there.
But President Trump and his aides have been pushing conspiracy theories since day one. A little more than a month into his administration, Trump tweeted the baseless claim that he was wiretapped. "Terrible. Just found out that Obama had my wires tapped at Trump tower just before the victory. Nothing found. This is McCarthyism."
[22:29:54] It was a lie. Didn't happen. He wasn't wiretapped. But Barack Obama was apparently so alarmed at the accusation that he immediately put out a statement saying his administration never ordered surveillance of any American citizen.
But the conspiracy theories, they just keep coming. Some are downright laughable. "The New York Times" reported last year that Trump wanted to fire Robert Mueller as Special Counsel due to alleged conflicts of interests, including a so-called dispute over fees at a Trump golf club in Virginia.
Even Mueller's spokesman had to tamp that one down, saying Mueller left the club without any issue in 2011. But unfortunately, Trump aims his lies and conspiracy theories at the very heart of our justice system. Former FBI Director, James Comey, accuses Trump of having contempt for the rule of law. Recall Trump's reactions to the FBI's raid earlier this year on his former attorney, Michael Cohen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: So I just heard that they broke into the office of one of my personal attorneys, good man. And it's a disgraceful situation. It's a total witch hunt. I have been saying it for a long time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Notice he said good man there. Now he's a rat, same guy. Again, he is pushing a lie there. Federal investigators did not, did not break into Cohen's office. They executed lawful search warrants, a move that requires the approval of a federal judge. And Michael Cohen is now a convicted felon, heading to prison for three years because he says he covered up Trump's dirty deeds.
And as for calling Cohen a good man, hmm, back in the spring. Again, now he's a rat for cooperating with Mueller and federal investigators, interesting. Philip, Catherine, Max are back with me. Philip, you say these conspiracy theories, these lies that it is your belief that he is throwing anything against the wall about the Mueller investigation, Robert Mueller investigation to see what sticks?
BUMP: Yeah. I mean I think there have been a slew of these things, as you said. I went back and looked at them yesterday. I counted up about 10 over just the past year alone that are attempts to undermine Mueller's investigation.
And the reason he wants to undermine Mueller's investigation is because he understands that if people see Mueller as a valid interrogator, if they see his investigation as something real, then they will start to question their faith in Donald Trump.
And so Donald Trump does whatever he can to try and undermine Mueller's investigation. It's sort of an escape valve for him.
LEMON: Is it working?
BUMP: It's not really working very much. If you look at the poll numbers, Republicans, once he first started tweeting about Mueller, Republicans were like, oh, I have less trust in the investigation. And since then, it's just sort of been static.
LEMON: Yeah, because you see the outcomes, what's happening in the courts. So Flynn admitted that, Catherine, that it wasn't entrapment, that he wasn't trapped, that he wasn't, you know, hoodwinked into lying to the FBI somehow. All you have to do is tell the truth, right? The truth will make you free as they say.
It's not just the President who is now pushing these conspiracy theories, because she said even after he admitted it wasn't. Sarah Sanders says it was a trap. It's not just the President. It's the administration. This is an administration problem.
RAMPELL: Yes. I mean for an administration that holds itself out as the administration of law and order, they have very confused ideas about what law and order entails. If agents know the answer to a question before they ask it to you, and you lie, and they notice, that's not entrapment. That's police work. That's how it works.
I mean that's how it's supposed to work. That means that they've done their homework. That's not entrapment. Flynn knows as much. That's why he said that in court. And for the administration to declare otherwise, of course, is just furthering their, you know, their lifelong or their administration-long theme of perversion of justice.
LEMON: It boggles my mind, Max, that we are sitting here talking about a President of the United States who traffics, a President of the United States who traffics, lives, and breathes conspiracy theories.
BOOT: That's right. And it's not just Trump. It's also reflected in the whole Republican apparatus. And the conservative journalistic establishment people like Fox News and others, who repeat these crazy lies. And for the life of me, Don, I don't understand the logic of it.
LEMON: Do you think he believes it, or do you think he does it because he knows he can get away with it with a certain demographic, a certain segment of the population and his administration, because they have to buy whatever he says, because they want to work for him. And they want to continue being in Congress or whatever in the Senate?
BOOT: Right. Well, that's the big question. And I would suspect at some level, he's basically indifferent to whether it's true or not. He doesn't really care. He just throws it out there. And as Philip said, sees what sticks. But what I don't get is why all these Trump defenders keep repeating these stupid conspiracy theories that keep exploding like kernels in the popcorn popper.
It's pop, pop, pop. Each one pops, and then they're on to the next one. Don't they realize it's going to pop in a couple of days?
(CROSSTALK)
[22:34:58] RAMPELL: It's not just about this issue, right? I mean think about how Trump launched his political career. Arguably, it was with birtherism, which was itself, you know, a racist conspiracy theory. That got him lots of attention. That got him on TV all the time.
LEMON: Yeah.
RAMPELL: That got him a handshake with Mitt Romney. So look, this is not anything new. And it -- he does this even when he doesn't really have anything at stake.
LEMON: Yeah, just because.
(CROSSTALK)
BUMP: Very quick point. I think that it's so institutionalized too, this partisan opposition. I think part of the reason conservative media in particular, seizes on this, is because they do see this as people lashing out at the left, lashing out at the establishment, which they distrust or dislike for some reasons.
And so even if these things turn out not to be true, they see enough of a grain in there and are hearing enough cheering from their base to go along with it anyway.
LEMON: Yeah. I got to run. The establishment would be the right, really now. I mean right now at this moment.
BUMP: It's the Deep State, Don.
LEMON: Oh, sorry. It's the Deep State.
BOOT: They're the establishment. They always think they're the victim of a conspiracy.
LEMON: Got it. Now it all makes sense. I have breaking news to report, everyone. The Wall Street Journal reporting the President's pick -- thank you by the way, the President's pick for Attorney General sent a memo to the Justice Department harshly criticizing Robert Mueller's investigation. We've got more for you next.
[22:40:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: OK. So here is our breaking news tonight. The Senate passing a continuing resolution to keep the government open through February 8th, the bill goes to the House next. I want to bring in now Senator Amy Klobuchar, Democrat of Minnesota. Thank you. It's a very busy night. I am so happy to have you here, because I know that you're working into the night. And maybe we won't be all of us, meaning the media as well, many of us
won't be working through the holidays. So you passed this continuing resolution to keep the government open. No wall funding for the President, right?
SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR (D), MINNESOTA: Well, that is correct. It does have the security funding for month by month that they had asked for pretty much in the neighborhood originally. So it's a few months through February of the $1 billion -- more $1 billion that they had asked for, for security, which was for other security needs and fencing and repairs and personnel and things like that.
So that's in there. But clearly, no, it does not have the wall. And as Speaker Pelosi made clear at the meeting in the White House, they didn't have the votes in the House. The Republicans didn't have the votes despite controlling the House to pass that. So I think the big news is that we avoided this shutdown, which would have -- the last Ted Cruz shutdown cost the economy around $20 billion.
We had, you know, everything, national parks shutdown, businesses not able to get approvals. There was a jet manufacturer in Duluth, Minnesota that employs hundreds and hundreds of people that couldn't even sell their planes. Those were the things that happened. So this was a good victory for America, while you're seeing the stock market tanking. The last thing we needed right now was a government shutdown.
LEMON: So it goes to the House. And then to the President -- do you think the President will be OK with this, are you...
KLOBUCHAR: I think the word is that he will. And, of course, the House has to pass it, and they must have a procedural plan to do that. I think one of the big accomplishments of the week was avoiding the shutdown. But the real big accomplishment was the criminal justice bill that we passed yesterday. And that was a priority for so many.
LEMON: That was my next question, yeah.
KLOBUCHAR: Yeah.
(CROSSTALK)
KLOBUCHAR: I think that's part of the reason that we were here longer.
LEMON: Can I ask you because people around the country -- and I would imagine you guys in Washington too have been hoping to see some bipartisanship in Washington, on Capitol Hill, throughout Washington. And this did happen. You know, this is a pretty momentous moment, don't you think?
KLOBUCHAR: It really was.
LEMON: Especially considering where we are right now.
KLOBUCHAR: Exactly. And this is something for five years that we've worked on in the Judiciary Committee, and you know, led by Senator Durbin and Senator Mike Lee, Senator Cornyn and Booker, major roles in this. And the idea was -- and I look at this as a former prosecutor. You know, we want to run things efficiently like a business, but there's an important way you don't want to be a business.
And you don't want to see repeat customers. And the best way to do that is make sure people have treatment and they have the skills, so when they get out of prison, they're able to function as part of our community. So it's an economic imperative. It's also fairness when you had those disparities with crack cocaine and other things.
And we were able to fix part of that going back in time. All in all, it was a really big effort from the left and the right to come together.
LEMON: Do you give -- how instrumental, I should say, was the President in this? What do you say to the country about the President's involvement and how much credit he should get?
KLOBUCHAR: Well, sure. The President was supportive of this, and that was helpful. And then obviously, Jared made this a big priority based on what had happened with his dad. He thought this was something he wanted to get done. And I know Senator Durbin worked with the White House. And, you know, I have so many things I disagree with this President and this White House on.
But I always believe that if there's a good cause like this, which is reducing drug sentences that are out of whack, where you have the support of police groups and civil liberties groups. You've got to seize the moment and go for it. And that's what happened this week in Congress.
LEMON: Senator, you know, I know -- well, maybe you are. Maybe you'll announce on my show. But as far as 2020 goes...
(CROSSTALK)
KLOBUCHAR: Seems a little late tonight, Don, kind of no one around here. It's just you and me and the camera guy.
LEMON: OK. So that's fine. Then you can just be honest with me and tell me the truth, because you told the New Yorker that we should have more voices from the Midwest. A lot of folks think that voice should be you.
[22:44:56] KLOBUCHAR: Well, that's kind. But I think that it's something that I have got to decide over the next few weeks. It's a really big decision, because one, I do think you want a lot of different people running. I think competition is good. And I think you want voices from places where Donald Trump did very well. My state, for instance, he almost won in 2016. And we came roaring back in 2018.
I was leading the ticket. And I believe you need people that will go not just where it's comfortable, but where it's uncomfortable, and be willing to work with other people that you don't always agree with for the betterment of this country. That doesn't mean that you don't stand your ground. I do that. And our party does that all the time. But I do think we need to change the tone of our politics.
The way he talks, it's hard for, you know, teachers to have their kids watch it. It's hard for parents that can't figure out what to tell their kids about civics and what this democracy is about when you have a President going after people and calling them names all the time. And I just think we can do better.
LEMON: Well, Senator, for the sake of the people who rely on the government for their paychecks, I hope that I am not speaking to you later on in the week. So I'll tell you Merry Christmas now.
KLOBUCHAR: I know. I think we're all good. I think we're going to be finally letting everyone go home for the holidays, including the hard workers here in the Capital.
LEMON: Good. Thank you so much for joining us.
KLOBUCHAR: All right.
LEMON: We appreciate it.
KLOBUCHAR: See you.
LEMON: The breaking news on the Mueller investigation when we come back.
[22:50:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: We have breaking news tonight. President Trump's pick for Attorney General, William Barr, sent a memo over earlier this year to the Justice Department that harshly criticized Special Counsel Robert Mueller's investigation. Let's turn right away to CNN's Justice Reporter, Laura Jarrett.
Laura, thank you for joining us with the breaking news, how significant is this memo, and will it affect Barr's nomination?
LAURA JARRETT, CNN JUSTICE REPORTER: Well, Don, this could be a major, major development. As Barr, if confirmed, would be Mueller's boss as the Attorney General of the Justice Department. Now, in this newly released memo, which we are still working to obtain a copy of, but sources familiar with it tell us that it does weigh in on a controversial issue that rocked Trump's presidency, that being the firing of FBI Director James Comey.
And now, in the past, Barr has already defended the firing because he said James Comey flouted DOJ protocols in his handling of the Clinton e-mail investigation. But this memo, we're learning, actually takes it a step further and explains how Comey's firing could not constitute obstruction of justice. Obviously, that is an issue that has been hotly debated for over a year now by legal experts.
Obviously, the President's lawyers don't think it's obstruction of justice. They think Trump was well within his rights to do this. So this news will come as music to the President's ears. Now, this memo was sent in June of 2018. And so the big question is what prompted it. The Wall Street Journal, which has obtained a copy of the memo, says that it was unsolicited.
But how did it come about? Why would he send this? He was a private citizen working at the law firm of Kirkland and Ellis. He obviously had been the Attorney General in the past but hadn't had a role in the government for quite some time. So why was he sending this type of memo on such a sensitive issue to the Deputy Attorney General who obviously oversees the Mueller investigation, Don.
Now, of course, Democrats are going to pounce all over this. They've already been worried about some of Barr's past comments on the Mueller investigation. He said to the Hill in an interview last year that he thought the obstruction of justice inquiry was, quote, asinine. He didn't explore it further. But he did say that. And he also weighed in on the firing of Comey for, as I mentioned, the reasons having to do with him flouting those long existing norms and protocols over the DOJ, saying in an article in the Washington Post op-ed rather.
Quote, I think it's quite understandable that the administration would not want an FBI Director who did not recognize established limits on his powers. But, of course, Don, this memo takes it definitely a step further to say that the firing of Comey alone could not constitute obstruction of justice, a ripe issue that is at the center of Mueller's inquiry, Don.
LEMON: Thank you, Laura Jarrett, with the breaking news. Thank you very much. I appreciate it.
I want to bring in now Tim Weiner. He is the author of "Enemies: A History of the FBI," and CNN Legal Analyst, Laura Coates, so lots to unpack here. Thank you, both. And you heard what Laura reported. What's your reaction to this?
(CROSSTALK)
LAURA COATES, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, I'll use the word that she described, asinine. It seems very odd to me that you would have somebody who would weigh in unsolicited and offer a 20-page memorandum that says I thought you would like to know my advice even though nobody asked me, because of my previous role as Attorney General of the United States.
He even takes it a step further, not just about how the President of the United States could never possibly be investigated for obstruction of justice because he fired his own cabinet member. He actually says that it's grossly irresponsible the way that Mueller has approached the entire issue. And he never should have had the President of the United States submit to interrogation about this.
He's weighed in on so many issues that are ripe right now, including by the way, eliminating even the reason to investigate whether or not the reason behind the President's firing was for corrupt intent. Yes, the President could fire somebody who is part of this cabinet. We've seen it again and again. But he can't so for a corrupt intent. And so preclude the investigation entirely without knowing all the
information, it says to me that that perhaps maybe the most asinine move. And will most certainly come up in a confirmation hearing for somebody who has been already known as qualified as being the A.G. This could undermine it fatally.
LEMON: I want to ask you, Tim, because -- (Inaudible) your reaction to this. But as I understand, you were one of the few people who interviewed Robert Mueller, right?
TIM WEINER, AUTHOR, ENEMIES A HISTORY OF THE FBI: Yes.
LEMON: This was before he became Special Counsel, right?
WEINER: Yes.
(CROSSTALK)
WEINER: It was November of -- it was just after the election in November.
[22:54:58] LEMON: Let me read something and then you can weigh in. Here's what you write in your piece in the Washington Post. You said we may want Mueller to be a lock them up law man, not a civil rights advocate. I think he has the temperament to hold these two opposite ideas at once and to reconcile them. That is justice in his eyes. He'll throw the book at Trump if the evidence demands it.
But that book is going to contain the constitution, not just the criminal code. So -- I don't have my glasses tonight. I am having a little trouble there. But anyway, tell us about that.
WEINER: Well, I had a chance to talk to Bob Mueller at an international security conference. It was just a week after the election. And we talked on stage, and then for about an hour in the bus back to the hotel through the traffic of Mexico City. And what struck me is that Bob Mueller is one, a nearly extinct species, a liberal Republican who, yes, is a law and order prosecutor, but also believes deeply in civil rights and in civil liberties.
And that he can balance justice with mercy. Now, I think this means that his approach to this case, this extraordinary case, that will determine the fate of this President, will be executed with caution, with deliberation, and with rigorous respect to the rule of law. Bill Barr in this memo, which sounds like a job application to be Attorney General, obviously has an animus toward Mueller, so strong that it has unbalanced his sense of the law and of justice. He can't, if confirmed, oversee Mueller.
LEMON: Mm-hmm. Interesting, I have much more. I want to keep you guys around, and we're going to hit the top of the show because this is our breaking news, part of our breaking news, that and a lot of cover this (Inaudible) that was voted on in Washington. This -- we're going to talk about what this means for William Barr's nomination. That's next. Don't go anywhere.
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