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Don Lemon Tonight

Democrats Off for Vacation, Republicans Still Working; Pressure Mounts on Secretary Nielsen's Department; No Holidays for Mueller's Russia Probe; Michelle Obama, Number One of Most Admired Women of 2018; The Passing of Comedy Icon, Gilda Radner; Richard Overton, America's Oldest Man Just Died. Aired 10-11p ET

Aired December 27, 2018 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[22:00:00] DON LEMON, CNN HOST: This is CNN TONIGHT. I'm Don Lemon. Thanks for joining us.

So, President Trump and his top aides at it again today. Saying things that are simply false. We should just call them for what they are. They're lies. As if saying them makes them true. It doesn't.

But what is true, what is real for so many American families is that hundreds of thousands of federal employees are taking the brunt of the partial shutdown of the government, nearing its seventh day now. Going without paychecks this holiday season.

These are the facts. OK? About the Trump shutdown, as Nancy Pelosi calls it. Three hundred eighty thousand federal workers have been furloughed, and there is no guarantee they'll be paid retroactively when the shutdown is over. There's no guarantee of that.

In addition, 420,000 employees are deemed essential and are working without pay. That includes 41,000 federal law enforcement and correctional officers. And tens of thousands of Customs and Border Protection agents and customs officers.

President Trump's ignoring those facts. And today he tweeted this really outrageous remark. "Do the Dems realize that most of the people not getting paid are Democrats?" The crassness of that statement is just stunning. And as usual, the president offers zero evidence to support it. No evidence.

But Congressman Gerry Connolly, a Virginia Democrat who represents thousands of federal workers, responded this way.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. GERRY CONNOLLY, (D) VIRGINIA: What an outrageous thing for a president of the United States to say. I have no earthly idea whether a federal employee is a Republican or a Democrat or an independent. And what is the relevance of that to a shutdown to an individual federal public servant not getting paid?

(END VIDEO CLIP) LEMON: And it looks like those federal workers will be without paychecks for quite a while. Both the House and the Senate reconvened for just moments today, and then they adjourned until next week. So that means no progress, nothing is getting done.

But the White House lies, well, they just get better. OK? Because the press secretary Sarah Sanders releasing a statement today claiming President Trump and his team stayed in Washington over Christmas to negotiate a deal and that the Democrats decided to go home.

So, let's see what's wrong with that statement. OK? Purely political. Obviously not true. The president stayed at the White House because of the optics of going to his luxurious Mar-a-Lago estate. Well, that stinks. While hundreds of thousands of employees are not being paid.

Top aide Jared Kushner and his wife, Ivanka Trump, they're not in Washington this week. They're in Florida. Along with their Secret Service detail, by the way, which is not being paid right now.

And the idea that Republican leaders stayed on Capitol Hill to head off a shutdown, that's laughable. Mitch McConnell and Paul Ryan couldn't get out of town fast enough after Trump scuttled the deal to keep the government funded temporarily. And note to this White House. Capitol Hill is empty. Negotiations said to be frozen.

President Trump, meanwhile, blasting Democrats as obstructionists for not giving him $5 billion for his border wall. Nancy Pelosi in a statement tonight reminding him that there are proposals on the table to reopen the government and they include money for border security, which is different than a border wall, which she calls immoral and expensive. But remember, it was the president who said this about a shutdown.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Chuck, you want to put that on mine.

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER, (D) NEW YORK, MINORITY LEADER: You said it.

TRUMP: I'll take it.

SCHUMER: OK, good.

TRUMP: You know what I'll say? Yes. If we don't get what we want, one way or the other, whether it's through you, through a military, through anything you want to call, I will shut down the government.

SCHUMER: OK. Fair enough.

(CROSSTALK)

TRUMP: And I am proud--

SCHUMER: We disagree. We disagree. TRUMP: And I am proud to shut down the government for border

security, Chuck. I will take the mantle. I will be the one to shut it down. I'm not going to blame you for it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: You can count on that, Mr. President. But let's go back to 2013. OK? This is what Donald Trump said to Fox News ahead of a government shutdown when Barack Obama was still president.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Who's going to bear the brunt of the responsibility if indeed there is a shutdown of our government?

TRUMP: Well, if you say who gets fired, it always has to be the top. I mean, problems start from the top and they have to get solved from the top. And the president is the leader. And he's got to get everybody in a room. And he's got to lead.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[22:04:58] LEMON: It starts from the top. If anyone should get fired, the president. Donald Trump suggesting that President Barack Obama should have been fired for a government shutdown. Priceless.

Well, a lot to get about the government shutdown. Let's begin with former Republican Congressman Charlie Dent, National Security Analyst, Matthew Rosenberg, and Political Analyst, Rachael Bade.

Good evening to all of you. Thank you for being bright and chipper and joining us this evening. I appreciate it.

Rachael, I'm going to start with you. You know, I called it. The shutdown will continue into the new year. Our sources on the hill say no progress has been made towards a deal. And that is abundantly clear when you look at the sheer number of tweets the president shot off today. Nothing is getting done.

RACHAEL BADE, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes, that's absolutely right. I was up there all day today. And it was a ghost town. I can tell you. I think I saw maybe two lawmakers, Jim McGovern, who is a Democrat from Massachusetts, he tried to bring up a bill in the House at about 4 o'clock that would basically reopen the government. He tried to--

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: You saw a Democrat -- the president said Democrats had gone home and the Republicans were still there.

Well, clearly say one thing, facts clearly show another. Right? And Republicans are the ones who gaveled him down. They wouldn't let him bring it up for a vote. So, you know, there's a lot of talk about this.

Clearly lawmakers, despite the fact that this is, you know, a total disaster and people, federal workers are going to feel the brunt of this, they're not here. And you know, my sources on the hill are saying maybe January 11th becomes the new soft deadline. That is the day of the first furloughed paycheck for a bunch of government workers who are either working without pay right now or not working at all.

So, we've gone a while and I think the reason you're seeing Trump tweet so much right now is because he knows he's losing this war right now. And his leverage is only going to decrease as soon as Nancy Pelosi takes the speaker's gavel because she's going to pass over and over again a bill that will reopen the government and you know, the pressure is going to be increased tremendously on Mitch McConnell in the Senate to put that on the floor and reopen the government. And it's just going to look increasingly bad for the president.

LEMON: Yes. Congressman Dent, listen. I'm kind of joking about that because I just think it's -- I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy. There's nothing funny about this, you know. And the minute it came out I was like you know, there's nothing funny about it.

But there's so much -- it's so hypocritical because the president is claiming without evidence that most of the 800,000 federal workers affected by the shutdown are -- he's saying they're Democrats. He is trying to play a political game here. But come on, these are real people with real bills and mortgages. It's offensive.

FORMER REP. CHARLIE DENT (R), PENNSYLVANIA: Yes. It's almost inexplicable that he would make a comment like that. It's certainly indefensible. I mean, the shutdown affects everybody negatively. There's nothing good about it.

And by the way, the party that makes the policy demand owns the shutdown. And the president owns this one. When he says if I don't get my border wall funding, I'm shutting down the government. Well, guess what? You own it.

When the Democrats insisted on a DACA bill as a price for keeping the government open, they more or less opened that shutdown. When Ted Cruz insisted on defunding Obamacare as the price to keep the government open, guess what. Ted Cruz and Republicans owned that shutdown.

So, the president clearly owns this one. And this is so unnecessary, as Rachael said. Nothing is going to happen on this until January 3rd when the Democrats I think are going to probably pass one of three likely funding bills which I can get into if you'd like to hear them. But they'll have I think three options to reopen the government. Then you have to send a Democrat -- Senate Republicans to figure out how to proceed.

LEMON: You can tell me about the options if you can do it quickly.

DENT: Sure. One--

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: You said if you'd like to hear that--

(CROSSTALK)

DENT: Yes. Absolutely. The first one would be the continuing resolution that the Senate passed, that same one. Identical. Pass that. If they don't do that then I would recommend they can pass a continuing resolution for the entire year. Not recommended but they can do that.

And the third one, my choice, is pass the six appropriations bills that are completed.

LEMON: Right.

DENT: Pass them as is and then do a continuing resolution on the homeland security appropriations bill.

LEMON: What do you--

(CROSSTALK)

BADE: And Senate Republicans, just to be clear, on that first option, the reason Senate Democrats think they actually have the upper hand on this is the Senate Republicans just voice voted that same bill to continue funding the government through February. So, they think they have the upper hand on that.

LEMON: Yes. Matthew two questions. First one is what are the chances do you think that anything will happen like what Charlie said?

MATTHEW ROSENBERG, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: You know, I mean, with--

LEMON: OK. That was your answer right there.

ROSENBERG: I mean, look, the guy is sitting in the White House spending the week tweeting. It's really not a president that -- presidency we've had before. So, I'm having trouble predicting what could happen here.

LEMON: OK. Well, let me ask you this. So, House Democrats take control in the new year. Right? What leverage does the president have to demand $5 billion for a border wall once they take control?

ROSENBERG: I mean, look, he can keep the government shut down. He can veto every bill they come up with. That's leverage. I don't know if it does him any good, but it's leverage.

[22:09:57] BADE: Yes. I would -- I was just going to add, Reuters just put a poll up a few minutes ago saying that 47 percent of Americans blame the president for the shutdown and 33 percent blame the Democrats. I think that that gap is just going to continue to grow.

And you know, again, Charlie Dent just said it. If you're the party making the demand, you are the party that usually loses. Just look back to what happened one year ago when Democrats were saying we're going to shut down the government until we get a fix for DREAMers. LEMON: Yes.

BADE: And they didn't get anything. They folded and they looked like fools.

LEMON: Yes.

BADE: And likely that's what's going to happen here.

LEMON: Yes. That's -- we don't use that polling but I mean, it gets the point across because I think all the polling across the board shows something at least similar to what Rachael is talking about, Congressman Dent.

Here's the other thing. The federal deficit rose to $779 billion in fiscal year 2018. That's up 17 percent from last year. Where's the money coming from to build a wall, the wall that Mexico was supposed to pay for?

DENT: Well, that's why we run deficits. They're going to have to find the money. They're going to issue it. Revenues are going to be obviously not sufficient to meet expenditures.

The point is look, if I were the Democrats right now, I would just first move to reopen the government. Once I reopen the government, then seriously negotiate with the president on border security. You know, $5 billion is a small price to pay for DREAMers and maybe the Mueller protection -- the Mueller protection bill.

I mean, they can negotiate something. I agree there's no reason to build a 2,000-mile concrete barrier on the southern border. That literally makes no sense. I voted for the Secure Fence Act in 2006 that authorized 700 miles of fencing along the southern border. They can do a lot of things to enhance border security and maintain operational control. But what the president's talking about, he still hasn't really explained what it means, what wall means. How many miles?

LEMON: Well, they added a trillion dollars to the deficit this year, congressman. I mean, come on. Who's going to pay for all this?

DENT: Right. By the way, deficits were projected to go up anyway. I'll just say that. Sooner or later this president and the Congress, whether it's Democrat or Republican, are going to have to get involved in a very serious fiscal reform, something along the lines of Simpson- Bowles, and get serious about it. The day is coming. And these deficits are only going to get worse. You're right, Don. You're making a point. It's money that's going to be deficit financed.

LEMON: Congressman, Matthew, Rachael, thank you very much. I appreciate your time.

ROSENBERG: Thank you.

LEMON: Secretary of homeland security traveling tomorrow to Texas to the border with Mexico. Two migrant children have died in U.S. border control custody this month. I'm going to talk to the incoming Democratic congressman from El Paso on what changes need to be made to U.S. policy along the border when we come back.

[22:15:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Homeland Security Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen heading to the border town of El Paso, Texas tomorrow. Her department is facing intense criticism. That's after the deaths of two detained migrant children this month.

Joining me now is incoming Democratic Congresswoman Veronica Escobar. She will be representing El Paso starting next week. Congresswoman- elect, thank you so much. We appreciate you joining us.

Listen, we have to talk about some serious stuff here.

REP.-ELECT VERONICA ESCOBAR (D), EL PASO, TEXAS: Hi, Don.

LEMON: As I said, the Homeland Security Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen is going to be traveling to the border in El Paso tomorrow. What is she going to see when she gets down there?

ESCOBAR: You know, it depends a lot on who she talks to. Too frequently, people from Washington, D.C. who come to experience the border and understand what's happening here really only get one side. They'll talk to federal law enforcement. They will look at what they want to look at. And then they leave.

And instead of parachuting in, my hope is that not only will she talk to federal law enforcement and tour the facilities and kind of see how inadequate they are, but my hope is that she also talks to human rights advocates, to the lawyers who are on the ground, to get a real holistic view of what's happening here in El Paso.

LEMON: You know, Nielsen says moving forward, congresswoman-elect, that all children will receive a more thorough assessment as early as possible. What else needs to happen?

ESCOBAR: There's actually a lot of work that needs to happen. That is the bare minimum. But part of what also needs to happen is she needs to evaluate the infrastructure. The facilities at the ports of entry. The holding facilities. She needs to talk to personnel. And I hope that they will be honest with her. I hope agents will tell her the deficiencies.

You know, she's at the very top of that food chain. It's up to her to ensure that her agents are getting the training passed that they need, that people in her custody are being treated in a way that protects their health, safety, and welfare.

Instead of advocating for a $5 billion vanity project, a wall, she's going to see that a wall already exists in El Paso and that those resources could be better spent in taking care of people.

You know, one of the things that we're really worried about, right behind me is the Greyhound bus station where so many migrants have been dropped off in the dark of night on cold nights like tonight to essentially be homeless on the streets of El Paso.

LEMON: Wow.

ESCOBAR: And I hope she sees that the federal government has an obligation to construct temporary humane facilities to house these folks until we can get them into shelters.

LEMON: Yes.

ESCOBAR: So, there's a lot that I hope that she sees and I hope that she widens and broadens her view.

LEMON: You're right. Five hundred twenty-two migrants are scheduled to be dropped off in El Paso just tonight. You say, congresswoman- elect, that this administration's immigration policy is to create chaos through cruelty. Can you explain that, please?

ESCOBAR: Right. You know, we've known as a country since 2014, and really some of this blame lies on the shoulders of the prior administration as well, but we've known since 2014 that the new migrant is the Central American families, the mamas with their babies, the fathers who are coming across our ports of entry seeking asylum.

We're no longer seeing single Mexican males who are looking for work. We're seeing those families. And our government has been very slow to adapt. Very slow to address the needs of those who are now on our front door.

[22:20:01] And so, hopefully her tour, this information will help enlighten that. But the administration, instead of trying to actually address these problems, is wanting to build walls, wanting to stop people at the ports of entry from seeking asylum, essentially trying -- separating families, using tear gas against people.

Essentially creating chaos among the most vulnerable in safe communities like mine in order to try to deter people from legally, lawfully seeking asylum. That is not solving a problem. That's making a challenge far worse.

LEMON: You've got a lot cut out for you when you officially join Congress in the new year. It's coming, I mean, it's coming very quickly. Are you ready for immigration and the budget battles ahead?

ESCOBAR: I am. You know, I love this community. I love the border. I love El Paso. And we really have a lot of great lessons to share with the rest of the country about compassion and humanity. And I'm eager to share those lessons with Congress.

LEMON: Congresswoman-elect Veronica Escobar, thank you for your time. Happy New Year to you. OK?

ESCOBAR: Thank you.

LEMON: Thank you.

ESCOBAR: Thanks so much. Happy New Year. LEMON: And good luck in Washington. Let's hope she can get it --

she's so positive right now. I just want to see her like maybe a week after she joins Congress. I hope she continues to be so.

But anyway, I digress. Rudy Giuliani sending conflicting messages about the president's cooperation with Robert Mueller's investigation. We're going to tell you what he's saying, and we're going to dig into exactly what Mueller has done so far, where he's going next and how bad it could get for President Trump.

[22:25:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: So, the government is in a shutdown right now, but someone in Washington is still working. And that man is special counsel Robert Mueller. Mueller and his team are still chugging along in their investigation into possible coordination between the Trump campaign and Russia and any other possible crimes that have come up along the way.

Here's a recap of where we are right now. OK? Here you go. Four people have been sentenced to prison. One person, Trump's campaign chairman Paul Manafort, was convicted at trial. Seven people had pleaded guilty including Trump's former personal attorney Michael Cohen, and 36 people and entities have been charged, including a criminally linked social media troll farm, the Internet Research Agency.

This year Mueller's investigation and the investigations he's referred out to other prosecutors around the country have seen results. And we have learned a ton. We now know how the hush money payments were made to Stormy Daniels and Karen McDougal.

And prosecutors in New York say that individual one, AKA, Donald Trump, directed his fixer Michael Cohen to take care of those payments. We now know that conversations about developing a Trump tower in Moscow continued much later into the 2016 election and that Trump signed a letter of intent for the project.

We learned that Michael Flynn was cooperating substantially with the special counsel including on investigations still unknown to the public. Remember all these redactions from his sentencing memo?

And we know that Paul Manafort continued to lie to Mueller even after agreeing to cooperate. Trump also turned in his take-home test, giving written answers to questions from the special counsel.

And by CNN's count we know at least 16 Trump associates and contacts had contacts with Russians during the campaign or transition. Sixteen.

What we don't know is if there was direct coordination between the Trump campaign and Russia. And maybe we will find out if there was or not next year. But still the walls are closing in on the president on many fronts. His campaign, transition, inaugural committee, foundation, business,

and presidency are all under investigation.

Once Democrats take control of the House next week the scrutiny is sure to heat up.

Joining me now is Jack Quinn, the former White House counsel to President Clinton. Garrett Graff is here as well. Author of "The Threat Matrix: Inside Robert Mueller's FBI and the War on Global Terror."

Good evening to both of you gentlemen. Thank you for joining us. Jack, I'm going to start with you. You just heard me lay it out. All of it, right? Mueller has indicted multiple members of the Trump's inner circle. Democrats take control of Congress in a matter of days. How bad could this get?

JACK QUINN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, it is bad. So, it's going to only get worse from here. You know, so many of the areas on which you touch are unresolved. We don't know yet the most critical question. Namely, was there, you know, per the mandate to Robert Mueller, a link, any kind of coordination between the Trump campaign and the Russian government?

But, you know, remarkably enough, when you look back on all the things you ticked off, the year started with Michael Flynn talking to the Russian ambassador. Michael Flynn of course at the end of that year being indicted. The year also ended with Michael Cohen admitting in court that he had perjured himself when he suggested that the Trump tower deal in Moscow had ended much earlier than in fact it did.

You know, the one constant, Don, throughout this year is that people very close to Donald Trump lied. And what did they lie about? They lied about Russia. Paul Manafort. Rick Gates. Michael Flynn. Michael Cohen--

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: We only have so much show, Jack.

QUINN: Yes. So, there's a theme here is the point.

LEMON: Yes.

QUINN: And I know there are a lot of predictions about Mueller wrapping this up, getting ready to write his report. I--

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: Well, that's my question to Garrett.

QUINN: OK.

LEMON: Don't read ahead in the textbook, if you will.

QUINN: OK.

LEMON: So, let me ask you -- because I want to ask Garrett this. Because Garrett, you know Robert Mueller. Do you get the sense as Jack says that things are wrapping up or is it possible that this is on the beginning? GARRETT GRAFF, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, I think both can be true.

Right? You know, I think Robert Mueller has known where this has been going for quite some time. You can sort of see the building blocks of a pretty methodical investigation coming together.

Both with what we've been shown publicly and then what we haven't been shown.

[22:30:07] You know, he's laid out sort of the four corners of this conspiracy with Internet Research Agency, the military intelligence -- GRU attacks and active cyber penetrations, Paul Manafort and the money laundering.

And then Michael Flynn and the sketchy campaign transition contacts. And so what we're beginning to see now is Mueller painting and connecting those dots in between. And sort of showing the Americans who participated, what role some of these things played in. And then, you know, the other thing is that you that mentioned is that we have these -- you know, and I have counted them up.

And you and I have talked about this before, 17 total different distinct investigative avenues pursuing the President right now, by seven different sets of prosecutors, both looking at the campaign, the transition, the inaugural committee, the Trump organization, the Trump Foundation. And that really what we're beginning to see is how these lines blur and that how Donald Trump sort of moved money from one place to another, and how money flowed into and out of his various entities involved and surrounding him in 2016.

And that this is in some ways I think where we could begin to see pretty rapid movement, we saw very rapid movement in the month since Thanksgiving. But at the same time remember this could stretch on for years. I mean people really forget how big Watergate got.

LEMON: Yeah, Watergate went on for -- I forget how long it went on.

(CROSSTALK)

GRAFF: Some of those cases stretched on for the better part of a decade. And ultimately we saw 69 people charged, 48 of them pleaded guilty or were convicted at trial.

LEMON: Yeah. Hey, Jack, can we talk about Rudy Giuliani?

(CROSSTALK)

QUINN: Do we have to? Yes.

LEMON: That was good. That was good. He was asked by the Hill today, thehill.com today, if Trump is going to answer more Mueller questions in writing. This is how he responded.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RUDY GIULIANI, LAWYER, PRESIDENT TRUMP: I think I announced about 10 days ago over my dead body. And I am not dead yet. He's not answering any more questions from these people. Their outrageous activity, you know, we did enough. We did everything.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: OK, so -- but then, Jack, he told the Daily Beast that those talks are still open. I mean this has been going on for well over a year. Do you really believe they're still in negotiations?

QUINN: Well, obviously, I don't know. I believe there's a line of communication between them. I also think that every time Rudy says something intemperate like that, that there's something else going on. And he's really trying to, you know, say don't look over there, look over here. So the question every time Rudy does this is what's he trying to distract us from?

You know, and I am not sure what it is here. And by the way, I don't -- I am not one who thinks that Robert Mueller is close to finishing his work.

I think it's going to stretch out for some period of time. And I also think that a really important recent development and we've talked about it a little before. But the more I think about it, the more I focus on how angry Judge Sullivan was. And I think he was not just angry at Michael Flynn. I think he was also angry at Robert Mueller.

And the reason may be that he's seen those redacted documents, and he's furious, I think, in part over the leniency that he thinks Michael Flynn was given. And that's why he's saying to Robert Mueller you better squeeze this orange till we get more juice out of him.

LEMON: Interesting. Sometimes I think the distraction could be maybe he's not trying to distract to something else. It's just a distraction just because -- just to confuse people. I have got to run, though, thank you, gentlemen, if I don't see you, Happy New Year.

QUINN: Happy New Year.

GRAFF: Happy New Year.

LEMON: Michelle Obama, the former First Lady, is America's most admired woman. That's according to a new poll. And you've got to see who she knocked off the top spot after a 17-year winning streak.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[22:35:00] LEMON: All right. So the former First Lady Michelle Obama tops the list of America's most admired women of 2018, knocking Hillary Clinton off the number one spot for the first time in 17 years. Oprah Winfrey or just Oprah, Oprah, Hillary Clinton and Melania Trump came in second, third, and fourth on the list respectively.

And former President Obama tops the list of America's most admired men for the 11th time in a row. Let's discuss now with Olivia Nuzzi, Nina Turner, Steve Cortes. Hello, gang. Gang's all here. Thank you so much for joining us. Olivia, I am going to start with you. It was a big year for Michelle Obama. She has a best-selling book. She has a big tour around the country.

I mean she's selling out arenas like a rock star. It's unbelievable. Appearances on the campaign trail. What do you think is behind her rise to the top of the polls, of the Gallup poll?

OLIVIA NUZZI, WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT, NEW YORK MAGAZINE: Well, it's not just that she had a best-selling book. She had the best-selling book of 2018. I think she sold an estimated 2 million copies in its first 15 days of release, if I am getting that correct. It's pretty staggering. She sold out places like the Barclays Center, which is a 19,000-seat arena. Those are...

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: They had to add a second date, didn't they? They had to add a second date at the Barclays Center.

NUZZI: It's pretty incredible. And it's the type of thing that while on the campaign trail in 2016 Donald Trump liked to talk about his own ability to sell out large venues. He used that to say that he was going to inevitably be the winner of the election. And, of course, he was. And you have to wonder, you know, would she be garnering this much -- would she be getting this big of a crowd if she were on the campaign trail. And I think that she probably would be. She is universally it seems beloved.

[22:40:18] LEMON: Yeah.

NUZZI: And I don't think that there's anyone else occupying any space in the Democratic -- you know, potential Democratic field who is as popular as she is.

LEMON: Yeah, maybe she should be the one. We're going to talk about that poll in just a minute. But I just want to stick to her, Nina, and ask you, she really stepped up her criticism of this current President this year. In her book, she said that she'd never forgive him for spreading the birther lie about her husband.

And remember this moment when she greets the President at the funeral of George H.W. Bush, not exactly warm there. Do you think her criticism of Trump played a role in propelling her to the top of this list?

NINA TURNER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, Don, she's always had a down to earth nature. And that's what I think many people really do respect about her, is her down to earth nature. Her commitment to her family, which certainly she articulated very strongly without equivocation in that book, and making it known that she did not appreciate how President Trump really put her entire family in jeopardy by the birther statements that he continued to make.

But just down to earth truth-telling, a real -- you know, she wasn't afraid to let that mama-ness in her come out, that strength that comes out, the love and affection she has for her family, and also this country, and then also her courage and her ability to be vulnerable too. It made people be able to see a side of her that ordinarily might not get an opportunity to see in first ladies, just a stellar, stellar First Lady.

LEMON: Steve, she was very open in her criticism of the President, who isn't very popular by all accounts. Do people respond to that, do you think?

STEVE CORTES, FORMER TRUMP CAMPAIGN ADVISER: You know, I hope not, I hope instead they respond to her remarkable life, that she came from modest means to get two I believe degrees, a significant career and become First Lady of the United States. I would also point out, by the way, Don, on a lighter note. You used to live and work in the city of Chicago.

It seems to me that the common denominator of this list when you look at Oprah, Barack, Hillary, Michelle, is to be from Chicago if you really want to be admired in this country.

LEMON: Well, I mean, Melania Trump is not from Chicago, but still...

(CROSSTALK)

CORTES: But all the rest.

LEMON: She's on that list as well. Bill Clinton is on the list, was he? No. He's not on there? Yes, he is. He's on the list as well. Bush is on the list.

CORTES: One thing too, Don, and it made me think of is, you know, I grew up on the south side of Chicago in a modest upbringing like Michelle Obama did. And that was a -- and I am roughly her age. That was a racially tinged time and place. It really was. And I think it's remarkable for our country too. It's certainly -- you know, kudos to her for getting this honor but also for our country.

Because I think when I was young I don't think a black man and a black woman could have topped that poll in the 1970s when I was growing up. So it's great for our country too that Americans have progressed that much on race, that the most admired man and woman in America are black. And that's not controversial.

LEMON: Yeah. Nina, I know you want to say something...

(CROSSTALK)

TURNER: You know I do. I mean, I am saying -- I would certainly agree with him to a point, but let's not, you know, overdramatize this moment. I mean we have a long way to go with race relations in this country.

But absolutely correct, we would not have seen this 10, 20, even 30 years ago. It is quite an accomplishment. And not just the pressure that she had to have of being the FLOTUS, but the pressure that came with being the first African-American woman to be the First Lady of the United States of America. She has blazed quite a trail.

LEMON: I should also point out that Donald Trump is number two on the list of men. So Olivia, Michelle Obama has ruled out running. Let's talk about this, OK? She's ruled out running for President. But do you think people have pushed for her to run because of her personal qualities, and do you think it's a real thing like if she actually ran do you think she could win?

NUZZI: Well, I think if she actually decided to run, she would be a very serious candidate. She would certainly be one of the most serious candidates who we talk about right now as being someone who might throw their hat in the ring. As Steve said, she has a remarkable personal story, even taking -- leaving aside, you know, her relationship with the former President.

She has a remarkable life story. And she's a brilliant, accomplished woman in her own right. But I would go back to that video for a second of her greeting the President, the current President, at the funeral. And what I think is so remarkable about that, you were asking whether or not her criticism of Donald Trump has played any role in her popularity now.

And I would contrast it with the way she greeted the President with the way that Hillary Clinton did not. Hillary Clinton has been similarly obviously very, very critical of the current President. And it's Michelle Obama who is the most admired person. It's Michelle Obama who's selling out 19,000-seat stadiums. So I don't think that it's as simple as, you know, she provides a sharp contrast to the person currently occupying the Oval Office. I think it's something more than that.

[22:45:14] LEMON: That was actually brilliant the way she did it because it wasn't good to see you, hello, she just said good morning. And that was a First Lady good morning and then she moved on. But listen. I want to talk about it. I have got to put this poll up, all right? Because there's -- this new poll is out asking Democrats about how they feel about 23 presidential nominees.

And here we go, OK? At top of this list wasn't a candidate at all, because 59 percent said that they would be excited by someone else entirely. What does that tell us? I mean look. It's somebody else. It's Joe Biden and it is Bernie Sanders and it is Beto. And then it's Kamala Harris. What does that tell you, Nina about the Democrats now?

TURNER: Well, Don, it's going to be a hell of a ride. And unlike 2016, there will be no -- you know, nobody will have a coronation. People are going to have to earn this. And even the folks who are uniquely positioned, there are plenty of folks, you know, who are on that poll who are certainly uniquely positioned, no doubt about it. But people are going to have to earn this.

LEMON: Yeah. Steve, I have got to run. Who do you think it's going to be?

CORTES: Look. Right now, it's so far away. But right now, if I had to bet, I would bet on Beto O'Rourke. I think he has a bit of that Obama factor, that charisma, that likeability. And if he can put Texas in play, that alone is enough to make him the nominee.

LEMON: I heard you were going to flip to a Democrat and run for President. Is that true?

CORTES: Gosh. I would be working very hard...

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: You would be supporting Beto O'Rourke. That's what I hear.

CORTES: Someday, I might be the first Hispanic President. But it's not my time yet.

LEMON: All right. Thank you, all. Happy New Year if I don't see you. Appreciate it.

TURNER: Happy New Year, Don.

LEMON: Thank you. We'll be right back.

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[22:50:00] LEMON: Gilda Radner was a comedy superstar and so much more. Her iconic Saturday Night Live characters made us laugh. Her thought provoking writing broke boundaries for women. And her hard fought battle with cancer brought attention and support to cancer patients everywhere. Now, the new CNN original film, Love Gilda, uses special access to Gilda's diaries, letters, and home videos to tell Gilda's story in her own words. Here's a preview.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was young enough to think that if you were as clever as Gilda was, and therefore blessed as Gilda was, then what would ever make you unhappy about anything. You have family, money. Everyone adores you. Every guy falls in love with you, and every girl wants you to be her best friend. She would walk into the room and all the energy would go to her. And I think that was her comfort zone.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Wow. I still can't believe she's gone. But you know who is here? Laraine Newman is here, who was along with Gilda Radner, one of the original cast members on Saturday Night Live. Laraine, it's so good to see you. Thank you so much. I still can't believe after all these years I still can't believe she's gone.

LARAINE NEWMAN, ORIGINAL CAST MEMBER, SATURDAY NIGHT LIVE: I know. It doesn't seem like death and Gilda go together because her energy was so alive.

LEMON: Yeah. As I said, you and Gilda were original cast members on Saturday Night Live, SNL as it's been come to known now. Whenever I see old clips, you guys seem to be having so much fun. What was it like back then working with Gilda?

NEWMAN: Well, first of all, sketch comedy is the most fun thing you can imagine ever, and we all came from that background. But what was significant about working with Gilda in that context is that it's live TV. Things can go wrong. But then she would come up with something that really kind of saved the day. And I think we were doing a Howdy Doody sketch, and this is in the documentary, by the way.

And, you know, in seeing the documentary, it revealed to me something that she did in that sketch that I was completely unaware of, which was the sketch was dying. And she just started to do some physical stuff to get it going and bring it to life. And it worked.

LEMON: You know, you, Gilda, and Jane Curtin, the only three women on the original SNL cast, and you worked alongside some really formidable male comedians, Jim Belushi, Bill Murray, Chevy Chase. What was it like being a woman in comedy then?

NEWMAN: Well, the atmosphere, because of Lorne Michaels, was very supportive. I think we all kind of took it in stride that it was a meritocracy. And whatever sketch, no matter who wrote it, no matter who was in it, if it was funny, it went in the show. This whole idea that it was a boy's club just wasn't true.

LEMON: It's so iconic. Did you know it was an iconic show when you were doing it, or you were just having fun, and you were just oh, we're popular, that's great?

NEWMAN: Well, there are some people that can see the big picture. I was not one of them. I mean I just knew that I was having a lot of fun.

LEMON: Yeah. That's probably the best way, right? So you can enjoy that in the moment instead of thinking about -- because that adds so much more pressure. Listen, Gilda became famous by making millions of people laugh, but she also fought and ultimately lost a terrible bat with ovarian cancer. How hard was it as her friend and her former colleague to watch her go through all that?

NEWMAN: Well, I think I know from my past experience with my friends, I always going into denial. And I think, well, even though the odds are not good for this particular illness, my friend is going to beat it. My friend will survive. So -- and she did have a period of remission so we thought great, you know, everything's going to be fine.

[22:55:16] And so it was that much harder, and I can only imagine what she went through for it to come back and to realize that there was nothing to be done.

LEMON: Yeah. She had an immeasurable impact on comedy. What do you feel her legacy is in the comedy world and in the world in general?

NEWMAN: Well, I think that she did break boundaries in a lot of ways. And I think comediennes can like Amy Schumer and Sarah Silverman, I think she would have loved them because they really embody that kind of brashness and bravado and anything for a laugh no matter how personal it might be. That was really something that I know appealed to her. So I think she would have loved that.

LEMON: Well, Laraine, I am deeply honored that you're on with me. Thank you so much. I really appreciate it.

NEWMAN: Thank you so much, Don.

LEMON: The premier of CNN original film, Love Gilda airs Tuesday, January 1st, 9 p.m. Finally, I want to tell you about Richard Overton, America's oldest man and oldest World War II veteran, died today at the age of 112. He had been hospitalized in Texas with pneumonia for over a week. Overton was born in 1906 and enlisted in the Army in 1942, 9 months after the Pearl Harbor attack.

He was honored by President Obama in 2013 for his serving this country with dignity. Overton apparently liked to have a cigar in one hand and a glass of whiskey in another. Though he credited God for his long life, Overton also said that his vices helped. Thank you for your service, Mr. Overton.

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