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Don Lemon Tonight
MLK's Greatness Compared to President Trump; "Washington Post" Listed the President's Lies; Constant Change of Tune; The Government Shutdown Continuing On; Air Traffic Controllers Being Forced to Quit Their Jobs Due to the Shutdown; Remembering Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. Aired 10-11p ET
Aired January 21, 2019 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[22:00:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: The news continues. I want to turn things over to Don Lemon and "CNN TONIGHT."
DON LEMON, CNN HOST: Hello, everyone. Happy King Day. This is CNN TONIGHT. I'm Don Lemon. Thank you for joining us.
We want to talk about where we are right now, two years into this Trump presidency. So, let's talk about where we stand on the shutdown, on the Russia investigation, and this administration's wrong-headed comments on race ahead of this Martin Luther King, Jr. Day, OK?
We're going to begin with the shutdown. Tonight is day 31. Eight hundred thousand federal workers on the verge of missing another paycheck, workers who, just like the rest of us, they have to feed their families, they have to pay their rent.
Airports especially hard hit right now with 10 percent of TSA screeners calling in sick and air traffic controllers warning planes will just sit on the ground.
And this president, who likes to style himself as an expert in the "Art of the Deal," right -- right there -- despite not having actually written this book, can't seem to make this deal. He can't seem to make it.
And that may become his negotiating style because of his negotiating style, if you can call it that, seems to be to take things away and then offer to give them back if you give him what he wants.
So he takes it away, and then he says, oh but I will give it back to you, even though it was already in there, if you give me what I want. Does that sound like negotiating to you? There are other words for it.
The president's latest proposal on Saturday was to offer temporary protections for some undocumented immigrants in return for $5.7 billion in funds for his border wall. He offered to restore temporary protected status for 300,000 people and allow 700,000 DREAMers to keep their protections for three more years.
So, here's what you need to remember. This president is the one who in the first place revoked those protections. This president is the one who almost a year ago rejected a bipartisan bill that would have provided a pathway to citizenship for DACA recipients and given $25 billion for border security and the wall. He called it a total catastrophe, $25 billion, that's a lot of money to go towards a wall and border protection.
This president is the one who just last month agreed to sign a bill to keep the government open without money for his beloved wall and then suddenly flip-flopped after he couldn't take the criticism from conservatives.
This president is the one who, when Nancy Pelosi refused to agree to give him his wall, said, bye-bye and stormed out of the White House meeting with congressional leaders.
That's not the art of a deal, maybe the art of the deal to him, but it's not the art of a deal. And none of that gets us any closer to reopening our government right now.
We have also got to talk about the darkest cloud hanging over the Trump White House, and that is the Russia investigation. Yes, Rudy Giuliani again changing his tune today, trying to do damage control after he told the New York Times just yesterday that the president himself said Trump Tower Moscow discussions were -- Giuliani quoting the president, here -- remember, this is a quote -- "going on from the day I announced to the day I won." Pretty stunning. It's pretty clear, right? Not a lot of room for misunderstanding there.
Well, now Giuliani tells CNN he didn't actually mean what he said. His comments were hypothetical, and the president actually doesn't remember whether discussions about a Moscow Trump Tower continued through the election.
There is really nothing hypothetical about going on from the day I announced to the day I won. What's hypothetical about that? It's a quote. And as for the claim the president just plain doesn't remember, what happened to this?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: One of the great memories of all time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Now despite Rudy Giuliani flat-out contradicting himself about exactly how long the conversations continued about Trump Tower Moscow, we know the efforts to build a Moscow project began in September of 2015.
[22:05:01] And the fact remains when Michael Cohen pleaded guilty to a charge from Robert Mueller in November, he said those conversations went through June 2016. So at least until June, well into the campaign.
That means that when Donald Trump said this about Vladimir Putin -- (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I will tell you that I think in terms of leadership, he's getting an A and our president is not doing so well.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: -- he was trying to make a deal to build Trump Tower in Moscow. And when he said this about Syria --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: If Putin wants to go in -- and I got to know him very well because we were both on 60 Minutes. We were stable mates. We did very well that night. But -- you know that. But if Putin wants to go and knock the hell out of ISIS, I am all for it, 100 percent, and I can't understand how anybody would be against it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: -- he was trying to make a deal to build Trump Tower in Moscow. And when he said this about Putin --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: He's running his country, and at least he's a leader, you know, unlike what we have in this country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Putin himself said this, sounding an awful lot like a fan of Candidate Trump at about the same time Russian trolls started spreading misinformation about Hillary Clinton and openly advocating for Trump according to U.S. intelligence.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VLADIMIR PUTIN, RUSSIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): He is a brilliant, intelligent person without a doubt. He is the absolute leader in the presidential debates as we see it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: That whole time, Candidate Trump was trying to do business with Russia in the middle of a campaign that Russia interfered in to help elect him. And of course, he hired multiple campaign advisers with Russia ties. Paul Manafort, George Papadopoulos, Carter Page. Don't forget the president himself said this about the Trump Tower Moscow deal just last this past November.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: There would be nothing wrong if I did do it. I was running my business while I was campaigning. There was a good chance that I wouldn't have won, in which case I would have gotten back into the business. And why should I lose lots of opportunities? (END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Because you're running for president. That's how it works.
We've also got to talk about on the weekend we remember Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., about some stunning comments from Vice President Mike Pence. And I can hardly believe that I'm saying this, comparing Donald Trump to Dr. King.
Yes, he is comparing the man who has shut down the government, leaving hundreds of thousands of workers without pay in an effort to force Congress to give him a wall on the border to keep migrants and refugees out. He is comparing Donald Trump to Dr. King. And you'll notice not saying one single word about Dr. King's life's work for civil rights.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAEL PENCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: And honestly, you know, the hearts and minds of the American people today are thinking a lot about it being the weekend where we remember the life and work of the Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
One of my favorite quotes from Dr. King was now is the time to make real the promises of democracy. You think of how he changed America. He inspired us to change through the legislative process, to become a more perfect union.
That's exactly what President Trump is calling on the Congress to do. Come to the table in a spirit of good faith. We'll secure our border. We'll reopen the government, and we'll move our nation forward, as the president said yesterday, to even a broader discussion about immigration reform in the months ahead.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Become a more perfect union? Let's think about that. Has the president really done that? Does he unite us and condemn those who seek to divide our country? Just for a moment, really think about that, very fine people on both sides. Remember that?
The NAACP calling the vice president's remarks, quote, "an insult to Dr. King's legacy." Dr. King's son, though, Martin Luther King III, said it best.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[22:09:56] MARTIN LUTHER KING III, MARTIN LUTHER KING, JR'S SON: The vice president attempted to compare the president to Martin Luther King, Jr. Now, Martin Luther King, Jr. was a bridge builder, not a wall builder.
(APPLAUSE)
KING: Martin Luther King, Jr. would say, love, not hate, will make America great. Did you all hear that? Love, not hate, will make America great.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Two years into the Trump presidency, we know not to expect the kind of soaring, inspirational language we heard from Dr. King, nothing to unite us and give us all something bigger to believe in and strive for, not in the State of the Union. That's because the State of the Union speech itself is in doubt because of this president's insistence on his wall, the wall that majority of Americans don't even want, the wall that will do nothing to solve his manufactured crisis at the border, the southern border.
We're also one month in to a shutdown that is forcing thousands of government workers to line up for food donations. That's the state of our union right now.
And looming over this presidency, the Russia investigation. And no amount of backtracking and double talk from the people around this president -- the best people, remember? Can't change that.
Lots to talk about. Laura Coates is here. John Dean. We'll dig into it next.
[22:15:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Rudy Giuliani trying to walk back his own comments today, the president's lawyer now saying Trump just doesn't recall if discussions about his proposed Trump Tower Moscow took place throughout the 2016 election. But it was only yesterday that Giuliani said Trump talked about the project with Michael Cohen into October or November of 2016.
So, let's discuss now. Laura Coates is here and John Dean. So good to see you. Happy King Day. I'm so glad you could join us here.
JOHN DEAN, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Thank you.
LEMON: Laura, I'm going to start with you. So, he's doing damage control. First, he admits, you know, that Trump Tower Moscow conversations went through the election, only to clarify his comments. Then he calls them hypothetical and not based on conversation with Trump. The timing is so important. I have a whole other theory about it, but this timing is important, isn't it?
LAURA COATES, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: It's very important because, remember, the idea is whether the American people were aware and whether the president of the United States, while he was a candidate, was actively trying to get the support and get in the good standing of Vladimir Putin, who has been a geopolitical rival of the United States for as long as anyone can remember.
The idea that the timing would be something to be dismissive of is absurd. Rudy understands very, very well why it's so important to lock in the time line. Did Cohen make misstatements when he was talking to the SDNY or Mueller's team about the probe?
Was he aware, as Donald Trump, that somebody as a part of his campaign, namely himself, was corresponding with somebody in Russia to garner favor with them? That's an extremely important thing.
And by the way, Don, he quotes the president of the United States. How can you say it's a hypothetical if you say, by I have quotation marks in that?
LEMON: Let's put the quote up. "The Trump Tower Moscow discussions were going on from the day I announced to the day I won."
COATES: Yes, in that quotation, how do you say, well, what I meant by that was that I was hypothesizing about -- and maybe just stretching the imagination. No. He had a conversation with the president according to himself just yesterday. What is on about this is that general track record of Rudy Giuliani.
LEMON: Yes.
COATES: You keep taking their attorney-client privilege and throwing it out the window because you just told us your private conversation.
LEMON: OK. You had a couple of or it could be this or it could be that, John, or it could just be that it's not mutually exclusive. It doesn't have to be that, you know, he, Rudy Giuliani is, you know, strategic and he's trying to get this information out there or that he doesn't know what he's talking about.
He could be a person who is useful to come on television and go in the media and just confuse everybody on public opinion, say a bunch of things. It doesn't matter what he says. And the next day, he retracts them and tries to clarify them and we all sit here in the media buy it, and we talk about it.
I often wonder if someone keeps backtracking and then saying, oh, this is hypothetical, why the hell are they on television so much because you can't put any credence to anything he says because he can say anything, come back the next day and lie about it to try to clear it up, and then we put him on TV again the next day. He makes another lie, and he says, but that's not what I meant. What is the purpose of it?
DEAN: It's exactly what he's doing, and it's working for them. I don't think it's planned, though, Don. I think it's just the nature of the way Rudy is. And when he did his 22-minute interview with Chris Cuomo last week, one of the things that slipped out in that conversation, when you listen very carefully, is he said he was getting his information from the newspapers, and he really wasn't talking to the president. So, he don't have --
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: Was he reading his own quotes? If he's reading his own quotes --
DEAN: I don't know.
LEMON: -- then he's not getting very solid information, but go on. Sorry. DEAN: I don't think he has any more information than you and I do,
other than the fact that he's a friend. He probably talks to the White House counsel who is actually doing the work, Emmet Flood. And I would think there's some disgust there as to the show he's putting on because he's certainly not helping the president's cause.
LEMON: Yes.
COATES: Yes. And I would say that I don't think he is helping. he's not -- it's not working because as much as people may be upset that there's media attention on what Giuliani is saying, you know who also has access to the media and his statements is Robert Mueller.
And every time Rudy Giuliani comes on-air and quotes his client, every time he says about a discussion that they've had, guess what, Mueller first of all has to prolong his probe longer because now he realizes I have another line of inquiry to look into.
He also says to himself, OK, this is another question I can add to my list. And now I have to circle back with Giuliani to say, remember the written statements that you provided to me from the president?
[22:20:04] Well, I'm comparing that to what you actually just said on television, and there's a discrepancy. And so, who is going to clarify that for me? Is it going to be Trump? Over your dead body, right, Rudy? Or is it going to be you because now essentially, you're a witness. You've now told us what you've talked about. There's no more attorney-client privilege, and now what?
LEMON: Yes.
COATES: It's a double -- it's a shooting himself in the foot every single time.
LEMON: Well, and the whole thing is that Rudy Giuliani says, well, Michael Cohen has no credibility, John. He says he has no credibility. He just wants.
So, Michael Cohen has admitted to for what he's lied to, right? I'm not making excuses for what he did before. But he has admitted to law enforcement and is going to serve time for it. Rudy Giuliani has done none of that. Who has more credibility?
DEAN: Well, I think Michael Cohen clearly does. He's admitted the lies he made. Rudy is just continuing to string us along with a set of hypotheticals every week and walks them back later. So, there's no credibility left there.
And I think he's embarrassed himself. I think he's embarrassing the president. He's embarrassing other lawyers who actually legitimately represent their attorneys. He doesn't need to be out there all the time, and yet he seems to insist and be unable to resist the opportunity to come out on television.
LEMON: Laura, I've got really just a short time here, like 10, 15 seconds. So, he is admitting that the president spoke with Michael Cohen about his testimony before. I mean, what if he -- he's saying, so what if he did it.
COATES: So, if he did, well then, you're confirming a whole host of news reports. You're also opening a door for Michael Cohen to be asked about that very question when he's in front of Congress next week or two weeks from now.
LEMON: Yes.
COATES: It's a very important thing if the president of the United States directed anyone to change their testimony in a proceeding let alone in front of Congress.
LEMON: Thank you both. I appreciate your time.
Two years in office and over 8,000 lies or mistruths told. We're going to break down some of the biggest whoppers next.
[22:25:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: President Trump has made 8,158 false or misleading claims in his first two years in office with at least 6,000 of those claims in his second year alone. That is according to the hard-working fact checkers at "The Washington Post."
Let's discuss now. Chris Cillizza is here and Astead Herndon as well. So good to have both of you here. Good evening. Happy King Day.
CHRIS CILLIZZA, CNN POLITICS REPORTER AND EDITOR-AT-LARGE: Hi, Don.
LEMON: Yes. Astead, let's talk to you first. The lies appear to be piling up faster than ever. The president averaged 5.9 false claims a day in his first year, 16.5 falsehoods a day in his second year in office. Why do you think the pace is increasing now?
ASTEAD HERNDON, NATIONAL POLITICS REPORTER, "THE NEW YORK TIMES": Well, we know when this president comes under pressure, he usually lashes out, and every time he leans into kind of his own messaging or off-the-cuff messaging, we get more and more falsehoods.
I'd also say that I'm not surprised on the second year because we're in an election year. And we know that when it's come to election time, President Trump in his base -- to rile up his base and to whip up votes, he does not care about whether things are truthful or based in fact, he does not care whether they break presidential norms or whether stir up divisions in this country. He's only worried about whether it gets the rush of the crowd, whether he gets folks excited, and he think that translates directly into votes.
And so, I think it's a couple things. We have, one, the Mueller investigation tightening around him in that second year. And that's why we may get some more falsehoods or lies. And then we also have an election year, and we know what the president's strategy in that has been, which is just to fire up the base at any cost.
LEMON: So, Chris, he's starting to use -- there's a new one, a bunch of wall has already been built. We know that is not. But let's talk about some of the biggest one. Maybe that one will rise to this level soon or one day. Some of the biggest lies he made, 192 misleading claims about the Mueller investigation.
CILLIZZA: Yes.
LEMON: He has repeated a false claim that the 2017 tax cuts were the biggest in history. He did that 127 time -- times. These lies, they serve a political purpose, don't they?
CILLIZZA: Yes.
LEMON: And so, people believe them.
CILLIZZA: Well, Astead, I think, hits on it, which is what Donald Trump is doing is creating a story that he tells both himself and his supporters about his day-to-day existence in the presidency and then sort of the long arc of the presidency too.
It's, you know, not close to what objective fact is, but we know from now years of experience that that doesn't really matter to at least a significant chunk of people who support Donald Trump.
Go back July 2018. Donald Trump in Kansas City speaking to the VFW, says don't believe what you see and what you hear. Only listen to what I say. I'm paraphrasing but barely. That's a window into how he approaches things.
Donald Trump, day by day, Don, he's done this his whole adult life. He tells himself a story of his life. Whether or not that story comports with facts is not his main concern. The main concern is that he looks tough, strong, and that he's winning.
LEMON: So, Astead, the president makes more false claims or lies about immigration than any other topic, OK? I mentioned, you know, what he said about building the wall, you know, lots of it has been built, followed by foreign policy and trade.
There it is on the screen. Fourteen hundred thirty-three false and misleading claims about immigration, 300 in the past three weeks alone. How much of a role does that play in the current shutdown mess, you think?
HERNDON: I think it plays a significant role. We know that immigration has been the heart of President Trump's kind of political ideology from the second he made himself a presidential candidate, stepped onto the stage.
He centered his message around this, quote/unquote, "border crisis or the flood of illegal immigrants from that southern border," and he has gone to misleading levels and misleading claims, straight up falsehoods, sometimes lies to really drive that message home to his supporters.
He has said things that have been flat-out untrue, some things that have been somewhat bigoted, and we know that's the issue he talks about the most. So, it doesn't surprise me that it's top of that list. But I think the root here is even deeper. I think it goes back to what Chris says about him telling a story to himself that he believes to be true.
His origin story, we have found this year -- we have found last year to not be true.
CILLIZZA: Yes.
HERNDON: The story he tells himself about being a self-made man, about being someone who didn't need his father's money, we found that not to be true as well.
[22:20:58] So I think the house -- the whole house is built of cards, and so it shouldn't surprise us that when we look at immigration, the issue he talks about the most, that also falls within that category.
LEMON: Yeah. So Chris, can we go back to the beginning, right, because there is another book in this looming genre of Trump chaos. This time, it's by former aide Cliff Sims. And in it, here's what he describes after the inauguration. Let's go back to the beginning. Remember we were sitting in Washington, going what is going on?
He said the president was furious about the coverage of the crowd size, and in a rush, nobody fact-checked the statement that Sean Spicer made the day after the inauguration. It seems like -- I mean honestly, facts it never mattered to this administration from day one.
CILLIZZA: No. And I mean look. I think there's a relatively simple explanation here. Donald Trump is not a guy who is significantly invested in getting his facts right. Again, I -- we sound like a broken record, but the truth of the matter is he really has never been that guy.
I would recommend a story in "The New York Times" over the weekend by Maggie Haberman and Russ Buettner. The story essentially says Donald Trump's always been this guy, in his real estate life prior to that. This is who he is. So why did Sean Spicer go out and do that? Why don't they fact-check it? Well, because number one, the principal, the boss man, doesn't care. He wants what he wants to be the version of facts.
Second, they're all -- the way that you survive in Trump world, we learned this during the campaign, is you do what he wants. He does not want people around him to say, wait a minute, boss. This may be a bad idea. He wants people around him to agree with him, tell him that he's doing the right thing. Tell him that the media is against him. So the way -- that is a survival tactic.
Now, in the long run, you're going to be in trouble because facts will catch up with you, as they did with Sean Spicer, as I think they will do and are doing with Donald Trump. But in the near term, as a survival instinct, that's why that stuff happens. It's why it continues to happen. So it's why Sarah Sanders gets out and tries to explain everything Donald Trump is saying is totally factual, when we know objectively it simply is not. LEMON: Gentlemen, thank you. I appreciate your time.
CILLIZZA: Thanks, Don.
HERNDON: Thank you.
LEMON: The president says he wants to run the government like he runs his businesses, but the shutdown may be an example of why that's a really bad idea.
[22:35:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: President Trump said he wanted to run the government like he ran his businesses.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I built a phenomenal company. And if we could run our country the way I have run my company, we would have a country that you would be so proud of. You would even be proud of it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: OK. Let's look at what we have to be proud of, OK? The government shutdown is in one-month-old territory tomorrow. That's one whole month that 800,000 federal workers are not going to get paid, not getting paid. Many more federal contractors might never get paid.
OK, so look at the lines, right, in the video, right next to me, the lines of furloughed workers around the country turning to food banks to feed themselves and their families. Are you proud of that? I am not. I don't think so.
The truth is that shutdowns are nothing new to the president. He has been shutting down his enterprises for decades. Time Magazine published a list of businessman Donald Trump's failed businesses. The failures include Trump Shuttle, an airline which allegedly never made a profit, Trump Steaks, discontinued. Trump Vodka, good luck finding that on the shelves.
And don't forget about Trump University, forced to close after former students sued the university claiming they were defrauded. Trump settled and was forced to pay out $25 million. Trump's foundation even had to dissolve after an agreement with the New York state attorney general, who in the lawsuit said that the charity acted as a checkbook to serve Trump's business and political interests.
Then there's the businessman Donald Trump's history of paying or not paying workers. CNN reports that Trump failed to pay in full for contractors who worked on his Trump Taj Mahal Casino in Atlantic City. That casino went bankrupt and closed. And during the 2016 campaign, investigations from USA Today and The Wall Street Journal found that Trump's companies are facing hundreds of claims that Trump has stiffed people he contracted with for decades. That gets us back to this shutdown. I flew across the country this
weekend. And at the airports, I saw the faces of those who are working hard, keeping us safe, not getting paid. When I got to the airport after working Friday night on Saturday morning, this is what one TSA agent told me. She said, Mr. Lemon -- it startled me. She said, Mr. Lemon. She looked at my ID.
She said you got to preach for us. This is hard. Some people got mortgages. I didn't know what to say to her. She's right. On Sunday, 10 percent of TSA employees scheduled to work, they called out. They didn't show up. What's going to happen when 10 percent turns into 12 percent and then 20 percent or 50 percent if this continues to go on?
It is unreasonable to make people work without a paycheck for 31 days, especially people tasked with keeping us safe, including the TSA and the Coast Guard. The president said he wanted to run the country like his businesses. So who is going to stick up for the federal employees who are the victims of the longest government shutdown in our history?
[22:39:59] Because it doesn't seem like it is going to be the person who said that he would take credit for shutting down the government in the first place.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I will take the mantle. I will be the one to shut it down. I am not going to blame you for it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: And as the shutdown grinds on, there are fears of flights being grounded and air traffic controllers being forced to quit their non-paying jobs. Let's discuss now. Dan McCabe is here from the National Air Traffic Controllers Association, also Sara Nelson, the International President of the Association for Flight Attendants.
Thank you so much. I appreciate it. I didn't know what to say, Dan, to that TSA worker. What do you say?
DAN MCCABE, AIR TRAFFIC CONTROLLER: You just -- all you can do is comfort them at this point. It's miserable. We're all miserable. Emotions are high. Morale is terrible. I mean I will bring up a perfect example. I have a 37-year-old girl that I work with, came up with her, 13-year employee of the FAA. She's fighting breast cancer.
She's at a point where she has to make a decision here shortly, am I going to continue treatment or am I going to pay for my house? It's a government employee. You're promised a paycheck. We're showing up to work. We're doing our part.
LEMON: What do you say, Sara?
SARA NELSON, ASSOCIATION OF FLIGHT ATTENDANT'S INTERNATIONAL PRESIDENT: Look, Don, this is a humanitarian crisis. And it's unbelievable that we're talking about this as we celebrate Dr. King's birthday. I was with workers from across aviation last night, federal safety inspectors who are not on the job or who have been called back to work to do their jobs without a salary.
Many times we meet our spouses at work. There are many who are married to each other, both not getting a paycheck in this instance. And these programs are shut down. There -- we have the safest transportation system in the world, and I will tell you --
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: Do we still have the safest -- is it safe to fly?
NELSON: It is less safe, and Dan and I -- that is painful for us to come here and tell you that because we take great pride in being a part of the safest transportation system in the world. The fact that we have to come here and tell you that there are systems that are not operating behind us, the people who are coming to work are coming to work, they take great pride in what they do.
They don't ever get thanks. They're often doing it in a dark room away from everyone else. But the people who support them are not even on the job, and those who are coming to work and doing what they can, the air traffic controllers, the transportation security officers, the corrections officers in our federal prisons, the FBI agents who are coming to work without a paycheck.
And this is a matter of national security, according to them. We are all people who take great pride in saying that we are there for your safety. And so for us to come here and tell you that we are less safe, that is painful. But it is what we need you to hear. And it's what we need Leader McConnell to hear because the government needs to be put back in place right away. This lockout needs to end. It needs to end, people are --
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: And they can negotiate once the government is back open, and then they can do whatever politics they do in Washington. But this is affecting people's lives. I have got to ask you, Dan, air traffic controllers have to work without pay. You fear they could quit or they could retire. Is there a backup plan?
MCCABE: It's not a fear. It's a guarantee. And there's no backup plan.
LEMON: What do you mean it's a guarantee that they're going to --
MCCABE: If this stretches on, everyone has a breaking point. Is it one check, two checks, three checks, four checks? You know everybody's got a different story. But at some point -- and it's happening now -- they will resign. They will go get outside jobs.
LEMON: Yeah.
MCCABE: And we're in the middle of a 30-year staffing shortage. It's thin the way it is. We cannot sustain that. LEMON: I want to put this sign up. Let's take a look at this sign. Warning, this facility is used in FAA Air Traffic Control. Loss of human life may result from service interruption. Any person who interferes with air traffic control or damages or trespasses on this property will be prosecuted under the law. It's posted outside of FAA air traffic control facility. It speaks volumes to what is at stake here.
MCCABE: It does, doesn't it?
LEMON: Yeah.
MCCABE: That's written by the federal government to the general public to warn them the dangers of interrupting with the system, the same federal government that's doing it today.
LEMON: Yeah.
MCCABE: That's the irony of this whole thing.
LEMON: Sara, I have got to go, but I will give you the last word here.
NELSON: Well, people are coming to work and they're trying to make this work. And there are those who are coming to work with hardships at home and those who have even tried to take their lives in this process. That's how stressful the people who are patriotic Americans trying to make this work. No shutdown has gone on this long, and there's a reason for that. We're not safe now.
And it's going to be hard to recover from this when we get back up and running. But we can't stay this way for a minute longer because our safety and security is non-negotiable.
LEMON: Thank you, Dan. Thank you, Sara. I appreciate your time so much. Good luck, OK? Please come back.
NELSON: Thank you.
LEMON: We'll be right back.
[22:45:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Today, Americans across the country remembering Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. While at an event in Washington, Dr. King's son called out Vice President Pence for invoking his father's words in the border wall fight. Let's discuss. Joseph Pinion is here, Keith Boykin and Mike Shields.
Gentlemen, good evening, thank you so much.
So Keith, yesterday the vice president cited Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. in trying to push for a border wall, comparing President Trump to Dr. King.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) MIKE PENCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: One of my favorite quotes from Dr. King was now is the time to make real the promises of democracy. You think of how he changed America. He inspired us to change through the legislative process, to become a more perfect union. That's exactly what President Trump is calling on the Congress to do.
Come to the table in a spirit of good faith. We'll secure our border. We'll reopen the government.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[22:50:03] LEMON: Today, King's eldest son, Martin III, slammed this comparison.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARTIN LUTHER KING III, SON OF MARTIN LUTHER KING JR.: Now, Martin Luther King Jr. was a bridge-builder, not a wall-builder. Martin Luther King Jr. would say love, not hate will make America great. Did you all hear that? Love, not hate, will make America great.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: So how does this comparison to the vice president sound to you, Keith?
KEITH BOYKIN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: It's almost so laughably wrong that it just is grotesquely offensive.
LEMON: Is it offensive for me to ask you that question? Do you think it is offensive?
BOYKIN: To ask the question?
LEMON: Yeah.
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: Or just offensive for him.
BOYKIN: I mean, it's your job. What's offensive is he made the comparison. I can't believe Mike Pence is -- he seems like a relatively intelligent man. He can't be dumb enough to possibly believe that there's any likeable comparison between Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. and Donald Trump, Donald Trump who has spent his entire life spewing racist conspiracy theories.
He spent 5.5 years attacking the first black president, who was sued by the Nixon administration for racial administration, who didn't want to hire black people at his casinos, who spent years demonizing the Central Park Five, five black and Latino youth. That Donald Trump is equivalent to Martin Luther King Jr. and to say that on Dr. King weekend? It's a slap in the face to black people to say that.
LEMON: Joe? JOSEPH PINION, COMMUNITY ACTIVIST: I mean I think there's just a
certain level of tone deafness here. And I think that in the same way that unfortunately the party often goes back and harkens to, you know we have Lincoln Day Breakfast and talk about the legacy of Lincoln. I think that often only highlights the lack of progress that we have done in the present.
So I think, again, when you start talking about trying to make this, you know, this juxtaposition between, you know, walls on the southern border and the legacy of Dr. King, trying to fight for the voiceless, I think that it really makes it very difficult for those people even who want to have, you know, some level of border security to take those sentiments seriously.
LEMON: Mike?
MIKE SHIELDS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yeah, I think there was an awkward connection. I mean, you know, one thing that Martin Luther King stood for that we should all always remember was non-violent protests and to work through the channels of power to get things done like the Civil Rights Act. And I think that's what he was trying to connect very awkwardly was that there is a way to do things that is not about doing it just on the streets with a protest.
It is taking that and getting action, coming together, working together across party lines to get things done like civil rights. And that's what I think he was trying to connect through a legislative thing, saying let's quit balkanizing. Let's quit shouting at each other over these issues and come together and figure out a way, for instance, to help the DACA folks become safe in America, and a lot of the other things that the president has offered as a compromise.
And so I think in the spirit of compromise, there is a nice connection there. I agree that this was not the right way or the right day to make that connection.
LEMON: Keith is going to jump out of his seat.
BOYKIN: I just feel like you're whitewashing Dr. King's legacy when you say that. I mean Dr. King didn't talk about following the proper channels. If you read his letter from Birmingham Jail, he spoke exactly against following the proper channels --
SHIELDS: Well, but he was not for violence is my point.
(CROSSTALK)
BOYKIN: He criticized -- he criticized -- I understand that. But nobody's talking about violence. He criticized white moderates in his letter from the Birmingham Jail who encouraged people to follow the proper channels and go the proper method, use the proper method for effecting change. He said that it's OK to go out and effect change through protest. And so the idea that somehow that Mike Pence would say that when --
SHIELDS: But you have to change the law. (CROSSTALK)
BOYKIN: No, but that's not just about the law. Because listen, Mike Pence is supporting a guy, Donald Trump, who is against the NFL players who were protesting peacefully, and Dr. King was one of the people who talked about peaceful protest. He was one of the people who would essentially take a knee and those are the same --
(CROSSTALK)
SHIELDS: I am agreeing with you on that. I actually agree with you.
LEMON: What he was essentially doing was comparing Dr. King and the wall. This is what Dr. King said in Berlin in 1964 in regards to walls. He said for here on either side of the wall are God's children, and no manmade barrier can obliterate the fact, whether it be east or west, men and women search for meaning, hope for fulfillment, yearn for faith in something beyond themselves. And cry desperately for loving community to support them in this pilgrim journey.
SHIELDS: But Don, I have -- I really think that that is not the right comparison. The Berlin Wall and the Eastern Bloc, they put up walls to trap people in who wanted to leave. They were trying to leave. They had their human rights denied. They had their religion denied to them. And he wanted, as we all did, for them to be able to break out. That is not what a barrier on the southern border is doing.
That is stopping people that want to come in so that we can remain safe. And so that comparison, we are all God's children on both sides of the wall. There's absolutely no doubt about that and we should --
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: So we can remain safe. So are you saying that everyone who comes through there over the wall is going to somehow harm us and --
SHIELDS: No, I am not saying that at all.
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: No, I am not trying to put words in your mouth. But you said so that we can remain safe. That's what you said.
[22:55:07] SHIELDS: Right. I mean, look, Nancy Pelosi said that walls are immoral. In that case is it the Democrat position that we should take down the hundreds of miles of barriers we have now. Should we just have an open border and get rid of all the walls? If that is what the Democrats believe, then they ought to --
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: Mike, quite honestly, that's -- don't you think that's two extremes? Listen, I am not here to speak for the democrats. But I think Republicans go to the extreme where they say democrats want open borders, and then Democrats, some, go to the extreme by saying oh, there should be no wall. As a matter of fact, I haven't heard any Democrat -- I should take that back, say no wall at all. They said that there were places where barriers should be but --
SHIELDS: If a wall's immoral, is -- are partial walls immoral?
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: You have to ask Nancy Pelosi about that. But go on.
SHIELDS: She's the leader of the Democrats.
BOYKIN: The point is, though, Dr. King's message, again, which is what we're talking about here on Martin Luther King Day, is not consistent with building walls to separate us from one another. Dr. King talked about putting aside tribal differences and nationality differences, and recognizing what he called the beloved community where all human beings are treated equally and all human beings are treated with respect.
That's the antithesis of the message that doctor -- that Donald Trump is preaching and that Mike Pence are preaching.
PINION: I think the hard truth that we're dealing with right now is that we're missing the point, which is that when you start talking about what Republicans are talking about, which is the legacy of Dr. King using let's say the process, that we get a Civil Rights Act before -- we get the Civil Rights Act, we also get a Voting Rights Act, that there is a process to that.
But that process was also rooted in our willingness to compromise. And so again, we're now dealing with the fact where we have two sides, and particularly on the republican side so entrenched that we can't actually get to the essence of Dr. King, which was working together to form that more perfect union.
LEMON: All right, I have to go. Thank you, all. I appreciate it. We'll be right back.
SHIELDS: Thank you.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
