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Don Lemon Tonight
Senate Getting Ready to Vote on Two Bills; Government Shutdown Continues On; Interview with Gov. Jay Inslee (D-WA); Democratic Candidates for President Out in Full Force; Rudy Giuliani Turning 180; Effort to End Government Shutdown is on Senate's Fate; Another Defector Exposing Administration's Dirt. Aired 10-11p ET
Aired January 22, 2019 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(JOINED IN PROGRESS)
[22:00:00] CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST: -- going to take occasion to make us better. Because this is not sustainable for the country, it's a way for us to be our best by any definition.
Thank you for watching. CNN Tonight and D. Lemon, right now.
DON LEMON, CNN HOST: Chris, we don't share notes. I have notes here because I know you were going to talk about this. And they are almost similar. So, if it you'll just allow me --
(CROSSTALK)
CUOMO: Please.
LEMON: -- just a minute or two to get this out and then you and I can discuss.
(CROSSTALK)
CUOMO: Go ahead. It's your show, brother. I'm listening.
LEMON: So you were right, right on. I think your assessment is right on, but there are some other things. Yes, there was some misreporting here, right? The media is not off the hook. I'm not trying to put the media off the hoof.
Of course, people including the media shouldn't jump to conclusions. But the benefit of the doubt should be given to all in our society, not just some. And that doesn't just mean -- and I mean, to, that means the Covington kids and the Trayvon's of the world. You know what I'm saying, right? It should be given to all.
Those black Israelites they can be horrible. They are horrible. They are racist, they are homophobic, they are anti-Semitic, they are awful and their behavior was wrong. But that still doesn't preclude a certain behavior of others involved.
We want to make it a binary choice between heroes and villains. And some things are muddy, right? There's shared responsibility sometimes. Sometimes there is a perfect victim and sometimes there is a perfect hero, but that's very rare.
OK. The MAGA hat, the MAGA hat carries a certain connotation that provokes a conditioned reaction from many people. Especially from marginalized people.
For example, Pocahontas, right? This was a Native American. Their chaperone should be keenly aware of that. Those kids should know that. And let's say that the kids didn't know that because they are kids. Their chaperones should be responsible enough to educate them. After all, they are students.
Now, here's my personal experience because I went to a Catholic school. You went as well. You said, right, I went to a Catholic school.
At no point would my school, my chaperones, nor my parents had even fathomed the idea of me going on a school-sponsored field trip with political implications or ramifications, not as a minor especially when we're at a religious institution, where there is a certain expectation of the separation of church and state. They just won't put me in that situation.
My chaperones would have quickly removed us from the situation where any of us might be in danger. Meaning, let's go stand over here somewhere else to wait on our bus. Why? Because they were looking out for me and my classmates' personal safety and not trying to prove a point.
Here's the important part for me. When I got home and my parents saw a photo of me staring down an elderly veteran, especially a member of one of the most marginalized groups in our country, Native Americans, but any grown up of any ethnicity, I would have had held to pay.
They wouldn't be saying, my gosh, they would have -- they would have told me and sat me down, boy, you get your narrow ass out of the way of that old man and show some respect. And don't be embarrassing me or yourself in public and walk away. That's what they would say to me. So that -- those -- they didn't do that but that's what my - that's what my parents would say to me. Maybe some of those kids' parents said that to them.
I personally would have felt that sense of entitlement that I could stand there and do that at that age for me and my family. Old people were always right.
The parents, the presidents, the conservative media should think less about their 15 minutes and trying to capitalize on this and they should take Nathan Phillips, the tribal elder up on his offer to build a bridge, instead of building a wall and instead of trying to further separate us.
If they think that these kids were unduly criticized in some way, then they should take that opportunity to build a bridge instead of trying to say, well, they were civil right. There were a lot of people who are right in this situation. A lot of people were wrong. And that's including the media and a number of folks. That's it. CUOMO: I think that's a lot. To me, I mean, the only part of it that
is really troubling to me, because we have seen plenty of this stuff. One, it's unusual to see the school contingent embracing a political philosophist (ph), right?
So that was unusual. There's reporting that while they were there, they were doing right to life stuff, which of course assumes that if you're in favor of women's right to choose and reproductive rights you're somehow pro death.
But putting the politics aside even if that were true and that is part of Catholic orthodoxy, right, wearing the MAGA hat would have still been a violation of endorsing a political position. So I don't get that.
And I think if the kids don't have the hats on their heads, you have a very different situation --
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: -- in terms of how it's perceived. And I'm OK tolerating all of that and the early reporting that was wrong because you can correct it. That's fine. And there was nothing done here to anybody and the scrutiny that's coming has been balanced. So, take that as it comes.
[22:05:03] It wasn't a pretty situation to begin with. But the president poached this position and he ignored Steve King. You have to see that for what it is. It doesn't make any sense except the most obvious sense. He plays favorites when it comes to bigotry.
LEMON: Political expediency and to bigotry.
CUOMO: And look, I know people are going to call me, I know they are going to say you know him. You know me. I wouldn't work for this guy. You know that. Hey, then tell him to stop doing it. OK? Because I don't believe in this in your heart analysis. I really don't.
You are what you say and you do. And you are what you say and do when I call you out for it and say, you know, Don, you tell me. What you did, we should let people know, early on when the MAGA hats come out. I was like, yes, I see MAGA hats, I them all the time.
And you and I talked about this. I don't know if you remember. It means something different to you than it does to me, fool. You're not part of the group that he's isolating about it all the time. You don't see it the way I see it.
And I heard that from so many people after that. And my eyes weren't open to it.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: Then they became open to it. I understand. But listen, if he gets called out on this, which he will and is right now by us, he isn't going to own it.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: And he'll never say I should have united. He said the kids should unite us.
LEMON: Right. You got to own it. And you have to understand you can't pretend --
(CROSSTALK)
CUOMO: I think he's going to unite us. Don't ask the kids to unite us.
LEMON: Yes. The kids have a right to wear the MAGA hat. Sure. Everyone has a right to. But you also have -- you also have a responsibility as an American to be aware. When you wear it, own it. If you're going to own it, own it.
CUOMO: Right.
LEMON: When you wear that MAGA hat you are saying build that wall. That's what that MAGA hat says.
CUOMO: At a minimum.
LEMON: When you -- at a minimum. If you are wearing that MAGA hat it says everything that this president has said and stands for. Right? All of it. So, own it and don't pretend that it's some just innocent thing.
CUOMO: right.
LEMON: Like, you know, it's in a vacuum. You know what that hat says. And you know where you are. Be aware.
(CROSSTALK)
CUOMO: And look, I had this conversation today not with regular folks, with political folks. And you explained to me why -- not you. They have to explain to themselves why does he ignore Steve King and then on MLK weekend he decides to poach and play favorites like this in this situation as president of the United States.
LEMON: I think -- yes.
CUOMO: It's a bad look. It's a bad reality.
LEMON: To say the least. Listen, when someone says something about us or there's something and we don't want to -- you know, I always tell you, I'm like, Chris, why do you respond to, you know, people with three followers --
(CROSSTALK)
CUOMO: Because I like to have as many people angry at me as possible at all times.
LEMON: But you know what I say, I say that you are bringing more attention to it and amplifying --
CUOMO: Yes.
LEMON: -- something that doesn't necessarily deserve.
(CROSSTALK)
CUOMO: I was criticized that for today and I understand.
LEMON: OK.
CUOMO: In understand.
LEMON: OK. So, if I have a kid, a child and I don't want them to be in the spotlight, they already, you know, had had issues, right?
CUOMO: Yes.
LEMON: They say they are concerned about safety and they've had all these threats.
CUOMO: Sure.
LEMON: I wouldn't put my kid out there. I'm just saying. That's me. I know you're going to come at me.
(CROSSTALK)
CUOMO: All right. Now here's the other side.
LEMON: I wouldn't want to do it.
CUOMO: Which is I don't like seeing my kid and my family painted this way. This is unfair. He didn't do anything wrong. We have all these people telling us that we're racist and bigots and that's not what we are.
LEMON: I'm an adult. I can go out there and do it.
CUOMO: You would say you'd do it for the kid.
LEMON: I would do it if I felt that strongly about it. Now, maybe I'd have a conversation with my kid. Maybe the kids could change my mind. Maybe there are reasons beyond --
CUOMO: Right.
LEMON: -- my capacity or what I know about for as to why to put the kid out there if you're actually concerned about it and that the kids have been painted in a certain light.
I mean, it is that photo is going to become I think an iconic photo. The kids are going to become famous because of this. And if that is your mission for doing it, then so be it.
But if you really want to build bridges, then I think take Mr. Phillips up on his he wants to meet and try to work something out.
CUOMO: Right.
LEMON: That's where we should be as a society instead of capitalizing on each moment and then dividing each other. That's where we should be.
CUOMO: Yes. I mean, there was certainly a metaphor moment in this. I mean, every -- I was on vacation. And people were scrambling. I was quick and I stick by what I said. This is representative of an oppositional dynamic in our culture right now. That's what it was.
LEMON: I was --
(CROSSTALK)
CUOMO: The kids know what was going on. They had the hats on. I'm not saying they own the Trump realities the way you would if they were 26 instead of 16.
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: And they certainly don't own what the black Israelites did.
CUOMO: Well, that's for sure.
LEMON: Right.
CUOMO: And let me tell you. You know, you said it and I'll let go it. I felt the bite of those guys down in Times Square.
LEMON: You've seen those guys before?
CUOMO: Yes.
LEMON: And we know --
(CROSSTALK)
CUOMO: And not to judge all of them, but it's an angry orthodoxy --
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: -- to be generous describing it as an idea that, so they were being unduly provocative, could have been much worse. The Native Americans saw that, they tried to diffuse it and they did.
LEMON: Yes.
[22:10:01] CUOMO: So good on them. But I'm telling you it's a metaphor moment. And the man who has a chance to change the mix does the opposite almost every opportunity he gets. And I've never seen anything like it and it is unacceptable conduct for a president of any political strife.
LEMON: Not going to change, you know that. I say that to you every time. He's not going to change. He's a 70-year-old man. I mean, a 70- year-old, they don't change. They don't.
CUOMO: Hey, if he's so susceptible to these far-right folks yelling about the wall, why can't voices get into his head to say you keep painting us as bigots? Stop painting us this way. Don't poach. Why can't he listen to that?
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: That's more nuance.
CUOMO: Why can't that be said?
LEMON: That's not simple enough. It's not simple enough. It's simple. It's their -- listen.
CUOMO: Don't hate.
LEMON: It's make America great again, simple. Build a wall, simple. Lock her up, simple. There's no -- you're talking nuance, Chris. Come on.
CUOMO: When I yell at the dogs --
LEMON: Don't be --
CUOMO: -- Alabama and Tennessee, two football teams that hate each other by the way, but the dogs love each other. When they are fighting and I say, be nice.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: They stop.
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: Don't --
CUOMO: The dogs can get it.
LEMON: Don't be a, as people say, they told me today. Tell your friend Chris, don't be both sides on it on everything. Everything is not on both sides. I got to go, though. We'll continue.
CUOMO: I'm glad you got that dig in.
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: I did. It wasn't dig. I'm just being honest.
CUOMO: I'll watch you at home. You're just being honest. I'll be honest after the show.
LEMON: Both sides Cuomo. OK. Thank you.
CUOMO: See you.
LEMON: I'll see you soon.
This is CNN Tonight. I'm Don Lemon.
And I've got one word for you. And that is chaos. It's everywhere in Washington tonight, everywhere. So, let me just run down some of what's going on right now.
The president's attorney may be crazy like a fox, maybe not. Rudy Giuliani denying that he is lying for his boss, saying this just days ago about Trump's involvement in that Moscow tower project.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: What did President Trump have to say about the trump Moscow project?
RUDY GIULIANI, PRESIDENT TRUMP'S ATTORNEY: He acknowledged that they had conversations about it throughout 2015, 2016. The president can remember having conversations with him about it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Throughout 2016?
GIULIANI: The president also remembers -- yes, probably up to could be up to as far as October or November.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Then backtracking and claiming Trump actually doesn't remember any of that. The president still planning to go to Capitol Hill to deliver the State of the Union one week from tonight. Even though he hasn't been invited and it doesn't look like he's going to be.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY PELOSI, UNITED STATES SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: He can make it from the Oval Office if he wants.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Wow. The White House press shop. The people who are supposed to be making the president's case for him locked in a power struggle that no one seems to be winning.
Yet another explosive tell-all book, this one from former White House aide with personal access to the president full of quotes from what he describes as an out of control White House staff.
Unless you think things have quieted down in the Mueller investigation, not so much. Special counsel wants to know more about the Trump campaign's ties to the NRA. Remember they spent over $30 million in support of Trump's candidacy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Great honor to be here. I love the NRA. (END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: And of course, there is a shutdown about to enter day 33. The Senate preparing to vote Thursday on competing bills to end it both of which are all expected, almost guaranteed to fail.
So let's go deeper, shall we, OK? Rudy Giuliani, he spoke to CNN's Dana Bash today. And in what may or may not be a deliberate strategy, just seemed to create more confusion. Insisting he is not lying for this president. And answering Dana's questions about whether his boss might be annoyed or frankly pissed saying this.
"No, he's not pissed. He just wants to -- he just wants it clarified. He understands how these things happened. It happens to him all the time."
By the way, I hate that word. I'm saying git (ph) because it's a quote. I really hate that p word. This is a terrible sound to it. I'm just going to go ahead and point out that if you have to say out loud that you're not lying and your boss is not p-ied (ph) with you, that might not be a good sign.
Politico is reporting tonight that the president was, their word, apoplectic after his lawyer's weekend interviews. But Giuliani says this, "I do have a mastery of the facts which is why I can spin them. Honestly, argue them several different ways."
Spin? On what earth does what Giuliani says there have to do with the definition of a fact?
And then there's the State of the Union, which had been planned for one week from tonight. I say had because Nancy Pelosi holds all the cards here. If the House and the Senate don't pass resolutions convening a joint session of Congress and there's no reason to think Pelosi will play that, it's not going to happen, at least not at the Capitol.
[22:15:08] But White House officials say they are still working on a speech. They are still going to work on a speech. Sarah Sanders says tonight they are, quote, "moving forward." So, make sure you stay tuned.
And then there are the stories coming out of this White House, sories of a team that's nothing if not dysfunctional. There's the White House communications team, their own colleagues calling them irrelevant now that the daily press briefing is pretty much dead.
So, the people who are paid to get the president's message out there are largely silent. But a lot of people are talking. Eleven current and former White House officials spoke to CNN about what's going on behind closed doors. As the main players snipe at each other and more and more positions go unfilled.
And have you heard about the latest tell-all book from White House aide, a former White House aide, Cliff Sims, the author of a "Team of Vipers." He was a Trump loyalist and an aide with personal access to the president. He describes a White House that was, his words, "out of control."
There's the episode when the president berated then House Speaker Paul Ryan for distancing himself from candidate Trump over the Access Hollywood video. You remember this, don't you?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I got to use some Tic-Tacs just in case I start kissing her.
You know, I'm automatically attracted to beautiful. I just start kissing them. It's like a magnet. I just kiss. I don't even wait. And when you're a star, they let you do. You can do anything.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Whatever you want.
TRUMP: Grab them by the pussy. You can do anything.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: That's the other p word. Listen to this excerpt reported by the Washington Post. Quote, "I remember being in Wisconsin and your own people were booing you. You were out there dying like a dog, Paul. Like a dog! And what'd I do? I saved your ass."
Sims also quotes former Chief of Staff John Kelly telling him, "This is the worst -- expletive, you can imagine what that is -- job I've ever had. People apparently think I care when they write that I might be fired. If that ever happened, it would be the best day I've had since I walked into this place."
Like I said, chaos. And then not the least, of course, but there's shutdown. Hours away from grinding into its 33rd day with no end in sight. And an irony that's probably not lost on anyone, the State Department has had to cancel an international conference on border security due to the shutdown over, wait for it, border security.
That is the president's demand for a wall, a wall that won't solve his manufactured crisis at the border. And those Senate votes on Thursday, the ones that are pretty much doomed to fail, they are not fooling anyone, least of all the 800,000 government workers who are about to miss another paycheck.
One more example of chaos in our government -- but this one could be solved. It could be solved if the president would take action, if he would listen to hundreds of thousands of workers who don't want a hand out. They just want to be paid for an honest day's work.
The president could solve this. But will he? From the shutdown to Rudy Giuliani's confusion tour, lots to discuss. Frank Bruni, Josh Campbell, and April Ryan right after this.
[22:20:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Day 32 of the government shutdown. No end in sight. A prime example of the chaos the Trump presidency has cast on Washington and across the country.
Let's bring in now Frank Bruni, Josh Campbell, and April Ryan. April is the author of "Under Fire: Reporting from the Front Lines of the trump White House."
Good evening to one and all. So, Frank, shutdown chaos, Giuliani chaos and the person at center of it all is this president. Even for a chaos presidency, don't you think this is really getting out of hand?
FRANK BRUNI, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: This is pretty insane. And the two books you mentioned earlier, give us some explanation for it. I mean, this is a president who pays very little attention to detail, who can't hire the right people, who cycles through them quickly.
I mean, I'm just struck that we're talking about these two books, both of whom -- both of which are written by former Trump allies, loyalists or aides and they paint the most unflattering pictures of this White House.
How many defectors, tattlers, et cetera, has this administration spawned already just two years in. It's nothing like anything we've seen before. And I think that says an enormous amount about Donald Trump and the amount of respect he can and cannot command.
LEMON: Interesting. So, listen. I just want to read this. This is a quote from Politico tonight of Giuliani dismissing the idea that he doesn't have a firm grasp on the facts. "I do have a mastery of the facts, which is why I can spin them, honestly, argue them several different ways." That explains a lot.
BRUNI: We're supposed to hear that with straight faces?
LEMON: Yes, seriously. That's what he said.
BRUNI: I think you asked earlier if he's crazy like a fox. I think we got the wrong animal metaphor here. I think we should be talking about a loon. I do not think Rudy Giuliani is in complete control of everything he's saying out there. I think he is someone who so loves the attention that he keeps on trying to say new and vivid things because it will hold the camera and keep him getting calls from television pokers.
But I don't think he's keeping track of what he's saying. I don't think all of this is distraction. You can cause distraction, say contradictory things, have us all chasing our tails without incriminating your client, which is what he keeps doing.
LEMON: Yes. You used one of my favorite words, by the way, vivid. I love that. I love that word. It's not used enough. People use vivid more.
April, you know, we're getting new insight into the White House from the former White House aide Cliff Sims. This is what the Washington Post published. They published excerpt from his book and they write this.
That he said, "It's impossible to deny how absolutely out of control the White House staff, again, myself included, was at times."
So, we know you're at the White House almost every day. This certainly lines up with all that has been reported about the dysfunction. How does the behind the scenes chaos contribute to how the shutdown is unfolding and everything else?
APRIL RYAN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: You know, chaos is too kind of a word. You know, I'm just going to give you an example for today.
[22:24:58] You know, Larry Kudlow came out to the briefing room, he gave a little bit of a mini briefing. And you know, we were talking about the severity of the shutdown. But he couldn't deny that there was, quote, "hardship," but he kept going back to but we have this wall issue, but we have it. And that's -- it does -- it just doesn't marry.
When you have people who are hurting, and the White House has even -- I've talked to officials who even said, that yes, the nation is vulnerable. I got that today. But yet, it's all about a wall.
Everything is vulnerable. People are in hardship for this wall. It's going to only deal with a certain portion of the country and that's not even viable. But they work in -- or at least this president does in chaos. He loves this. He thrives on it.
But then you have other people who are in the White House, some of them were in the Republican Party working as strategists before and now trying to catch up with this harried crazy atmosphere. They even have to take a breath and blow it out and take a deep breath and just breathe every now and again because it's just not normal.
LEMON: Got it. Josh, Dana Bash, our Dana Bash asked Rudy Giuliani if the president is upset about all of this confusion that he is creating, point blank asking him if Trump is pissed. Giuliani said he is not. He just wants things clarified. He's not doing the president any favors, does he?
JOSH CAMPBELL, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, it depends on what his goal is and what his role is. I mean, if he is there to be a sober, respected, professional representative of the Office of the President of the United States and all that office represents, then I don't think that he's doing a very good job.
But if his goal and his role is to be a ring leader and a never- ending, you know, circus and to distract the crowd from a presidential high wire act, then I think he is doing a good job. But I think today I don't know that that serves the president well.
Now look, I know the president watches this show. I know he cares about what people think about him. I think all of us on this panel and you, Don, would agree that we all would want a functioning effective White House, so I would just say this.
If the president wants to portray the image that this is a well-oiled machine and that all is well, I don't know that having Rudy Giuliani out there bouncing off the wall is necessarily going to help with that.
LEMON: More on another book about the chaos in the Trump White House. We will read some excerpts for you and we'll dig into it, right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DON LEMON, CNN HOST: So we're back now with Frank, Josh, and April. Frank, I am going to go to you first. I just want to read. This is analysis from the Washington Post on the president as it relates to the shutdown, OK? Here's a quote. "He creates or threatens to create a calamity and then insists he will address the problem only if his adversary capitulates to a separate demand. Trump has described this approach as creating leverage and negotiating, but Democrats and other opponents have said it amounts to hostage taking," says a lot about his negotiating style.
FRANK BRUNI, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Yeah. I think I have to go honestly with the phrase hostage-taking. That's exactly what it feels like in this case.
LEMON: Do you think extortion too strong a word when you take -- when you -- you're the one who removes certain things, you take them off the table and then go back and demand that you get your way and then you say, OK, I will put this in when you're the one who took it off?
BRUNI: No. I don't think it's too strong a word. And I have to be honest. I don't think the president cares that much about the 800,000 people who aren't getting their paychecks. I wish I could say otherwise. What confuses me is he doesn't care more because of who he is and what he values about the economy. I mean I think we are really playing with fire here.
There's a lot of business that can't get done, you know, if certain federal agencies can't get their approvals or review things. There are other ways in which this is being and going to continue to be a drag on the economy. The main thing he brags about in terms of his presidency and his accomplishments, what, the economy. And he is really jeopardizing that the longer the government stays shut down.
LEMON: That's a really strong statement from you, especially someone -- you say it finds you, always right on. But more moderated sometimes, you think he doesn't -- you're saying he doesn't care about -- you don't believe he cares about those 800,000 workers?
BRUNI: I do not -- I do not believe -- I'm not inside his head. I'm not inside his heart. I want to --
(CROSSTALK)
BRUNI: But I don't think he cares that much about them. He said a few things that were quite callous, like, they've been through adversity before. We played one of those clips I think last week. I don't know if the words right. I do not sense exuding, emanating from Donald Trump, an enormous amount of concern and sympathy for the federal workers. LEMON: I get your point. So I just want to read now, April, another excerpt from Cliff Sims book, OK? He recalls the president lashing out at Paul Ryan after he criticized the president's handling of Charlottesville, OK? So here's the quote. "Paul, do you know why Democrats have been kicking your ass for decades? Because they know a little word called loyalty. Why do you think Nancy Pelosi has held on this long? Have you seen her? She's a disaster. Every time she opens her mouth, another Republican gets elected. But they stick with her. Why can't you be loyal to your president, Paul?"
What do you think, especially given how the shutdown is unfolding and the hold that Nancy Pelosi has been able to keep on her caucus? Also something to keep in mind, Democrats picked up 40 seats this last election in large part due to Nancy Pelosi.
APRIL RYAN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: You can say it's Nancy Pelosi or you can is say it's the fact that people are sick and tired of being sick and tired. Let's go back to family in (inaudible). They are tired of what they are seeing. They are tired of people being bullied. You know some would say many have been bullied into submission. Charlottesville was very telling for minorities.
You have a large number of minorities, a large number of women. This president has been accused of objectifying women, at the very least. And you have other minorities who have come into -- who are now at the table. You know, Shirley Chisam (ph) used to say if you don't have a seat at the table, bring a folding hair chair. Well, you have got a lot of minorities and women and people who weren't in this process.
They brought their folding chairs because they are tired of what they are seeing from the White House. And Paul Ryan understands Washington. He understands politics. He understands governance. This is totally opposite of what we have seen. You have Republicans quietly talking about this president is crazy. They say this quietly.
[22:35:05] But yet when they are with him, they stand by him because they know that if they are seen going against him, they will be brought down by their constituency who supports this president. So there is a problem here. When do you look at the issue of humanity, not politics, but humanity versus being bullied into submission?
There's a lot at play right now in this nation. And this book is just yet again revealing. It's a whistle-blowing book, it sounds like. Yet again, we've already heard. It's just putting into paperback or hard cover.
LEMON: So you said let's look at humanity. Josh, can we look at the actual safety of the shutdown, OK? Because you're a former FBI agent, FBI agents are warning that the shutdown is putting national security at risk. That includes operations against one of the president's favorite targets, MS-13. If the shutdown doesn't end soon, how bad could it get?
JOSH CAMPBELL, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, it's already bad, Don. And there was a stunning announcement today from the FBI Agency Association, essentially coming out and saying this shutdown is harming U.S. national security. Not will harm, it is harming U.S. national security. They talked about informants that are drying up. They talked about not being able to, you know, have enough money to engage in types of operations we expect them to do in order to protect the country.
What's interesting is that, you know, the president talks about a national security crisis at the border. But the FBI Agents Association is essentially saying, no, the shutdown is the crisis. The president talks about groups like MS-13 all the time. He talks about terrorist groups. And today, you had the FBI saying this shutdown is hurting our ability to infiltrate these groups to go after them. This is a crisis. And I hope that it resonates with people.
Again, I agree with what Frank was saying. I don't know that the president loses any sleep about these 800,000 federal workers, which include members of the national security community and the FBI. But he should, because at the end of the day, the actions that are happening right now will make this country less safe.
And this isn't like flipping a switch. You don't just turn the government back on and all of a sudden you're able to recruit sources, and you know, engage in these investigations as though nothing ever happened. This is harming people. And the last thing I will say too, because I have to, you know, speaking for my brothers and sisters in the FBI.
There was a report today from the FBI, from CNN, from the FBI Agents Association where one person actually described it as being humiliating, the fact that they are working. They're not getting paid. They're having to call creditors and telling them you can't pay your bills. At the same time, they are going to work everyday to protect this country. It's really disgraceful.
LEMON: Well put. Thank you.
RYAN: Don, Don, Don, really fast.
LEMON: Quick, April, yes, because I got to go to break.
RYAN: Congressman Emanuel Cleaver -- just piggy-backing off that -- he said this nation because of the shutdown. We're at the most vulnerable that we have been since 9/11 as a nation, focusing in on the border and just leaving everything else open.
LEMON: Yeah. I didn't want to put that out there, but you have. Thank you so much. I appreciate that.
Two bills to reopen the government are headed for a vote in the Senate, but neither one seems to stands much of a chance. Washington Governor, Jay Inslee, weighs in on the now month-long shutdown. There he is. He's next.
[22:40:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: So we're now in day 32 of the government shutdown. The Senate is set to vote on two bills on Thursday. One would provide $5.7 billion for the wall and extend protection for DACA recipients, along the lines of the president's proposal. The second bill, which has already passed the House, would fund the government to February 8th.
Neither bill is expected to get the 60 votes needed to pass, which means there's no end in sight to this shutdown. Washington Governor, Jay Inslee, here to discuss, good evening, Governor, how are you doing?
GOV. JAY INSLEE (D), WASHINGTON: Well, I am outraged, like most Americans tonight, that people who are saving our lives in the coast guard aren't getting paid. TSA agents aren't getting paid. I saw in the airport today. And right now, listen, this is really impinging on basic services. I have an airport, an airline terminal supposed to open in Everett, Washington a couple weeks that isn't going to be able to open.
We're not going to be able to have flight service out of Everett to the rest of the country. So this is really diminishing services, and it really is an outrage. Particularly because we're trying to step in the states to help these hardworking people with unemployment compensation, and the president is trying to stop us from paying people out of state unemployment compensation funds.
LEMON: Yeah.
INSLEE: So don't tell me he cares about these people. He's trying to stop us from helping them out.
LEMON: Well, you mentioned the coast guard. I just want to play this, because this is the admiral, Admiral Karl Schultz from. He's the Commandant in the U.S. coast guard. He posted this message on Twitter.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ADMIRAL KARL SCHULTZ, USCG COMMANDANT: We're five-plus weeks into the anxiety and stress of this government lapse and your non-pay. You, as members of the armed forces, should not be expected to shoulder this burden. I remain heartened by assistance available to you within the lifelines and by the outpouring of support from local communities across the nation.
But ultimately, I find it unacceptable that coast guard men and women have to rely on food pantries and donations to get through day-to-day life as service members.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: You have a number of coast guard folks in your state. How is this acceptable?
INSLEE: Well, how is it acceptable to expect any federal employee, particularly we have the coast guard men and women close to our hearts because they save our lives on the waters of Puget Sound and the Pacific Ocean. So we understand their heroism. And it is not only them, of course. It's their families that are suffering. It's their spouses trying to make ends meet, if their kids are living under this cloud of anxiety.
And again, not only is the president not trying to get them back to work, he is trying to stop us from helping those families on the state nickel under our unemployment compensation. To me, that is simply outrageous. I do think that one of the things we have to start doing is putting some pressure on the Senate Republicans.
[22:45:03] Look, they are enabling this president, and they need to step up the plate and show a little bit of courage in this next vote to reopen government while this debate continues. I know a lot of ire is focused on the president. It needs to be focused on Senate Republicans that are allowing this outrage to continue. And they have a chance to step up to the plate. It's time to do it.
LEMON: OK. Let me ask you this. Because there is a piece -- I don't know if you saw this in the Washington Post -- talking to Trump voters who are unhappy about the shutdown.
This is a quote from a 45-year-old Michigan voter, OK? The 45-year- old voter says, "I was doing fine with him up until this government shutdown. It's ridiculous. You're not getting the wall built for $5 billion. And Mexico is not paying for it. We all know that, too. Meanwhile, it's starting to turn people like me away."
So how would you go about winning over that Trump voter who is moving away from the president, and is that the strategy for Democratic victory, do you think?
INSLEE: Well, those voters maybe have felt some economic anxiety. And now, you have a president who is callously indifferent to the tremendous economic anxiety of, you know, 800,000 working people that happen to work for the federal government. I think he has displayed in real terms that his heart is not with working people. When you expect people to work and you refuse to pay them, you cannot say that you're a friend of the working men and women in this country.
And they have come to understand that. They also, I think, listening to the comment of that fellow, understand that this wall is largely a vanity project. And now to deny services based on a bumper sticker and fear, look, this president is afraid of Ann Coulter. Let's get this straight who he's afraid of. That's his real threat to his well being politically and that's what he's paying attention to.
So again, I do believe we hopefully have an end in sight when we rise up and express that outrage to these Republican senators. They need to come to the rescue of this nation. President Trump has turned the District of Columbia into the district of chaos.
LEMON: Yeah.
INSLEE: And we need some good men and women in the Senate to step up to the plate, pronto.
LEMON: OK, OK. Speaking of -- all right, and what about at the top because you have been in New Hampshire, right, you have been listening to folks and I asked you last time if you were considering a 2020 White House bid. Any closer, do you have an announcement us? What are you thinking?
INSLEE: Well, I don't other than making sure you're in the shortlist for the V.P. position, of course, which is a secret deal. But -- well, I will just tell you. I have been listening to people in Nevada last weekend and New Hampshire just today, and we had some tremendous meetings with college students today talking about climate change. And this is a generation that really understands how we -- both the peril of climate change and the promise of economic development around that issue.
And if I run, that will be a central tenant because this climate change issue touches everything we do, our economy, our health, our national security. And I have been emboldened and very pleased at what I am hearing from people that share that view, that we need a Democratic nominee who will spouse that view along with all the other things we believe in. So things are well in that regard. Stay tuned.
LEMON: OK. Thank you. I hope you'll make the announcement here. I appreciate you talking about me being V.P. I am happy with what I am doing. I do not -- that's the last headache I need, is to be in political office. I have enough.
INSLEE: You'd be good at it.
LEMON: Yeah. All right, thank you, you know, maybe press secretary. We'll see. Thank you. I appreciate it, Governor.
INSLEE: Thanks, Don. Thanks for having me.
LEMON: Absolutely. Democratic candidates for president are out in full force trying to get early support from minority voters. Is that the path to victory in 2020?
[22:50:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: The 2020 battle for voters of color already under way, even some undeclared Democratic candidates are taking their cases to the voters. Let's discuss now. Nina Turner is here, Steve Cortes, good evening to both of you. I love the glasses, Nina, by the way.
NINA TURNER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Thank you, Don.
LEMON: Thank you, both, for coming on. Nina, there are going to be a number -- and your tie is OK, Steve. Nina, there are going to be a number of women and minorities among the serious contenders in the 2020 Democratic field. Candidates are openly appealing to minority voters. Does the path to the nomination in 2020 depend on that?
TURNER: Oh, it does. And it is a beautiful thing to see a rainbow coalition assembling to actually run for the highest office of the land. But certainly, you and I both know that in the primaries, especially the Democratic primary, votes of color are key, particularly the African-American community, because the African- American community by in large is the loyalist base of the Democratic Party. So it is important to deal with the issues of that community. And when you deal with the issues of African-American community, you really are dealing with the issues of the whole.
LEMON: Yeah. Steve, I want you to take a listen. This is Senator Elizabeth Warren talking about Puerto Rico. She was on with my colleague, Anderson.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. ELIZABETH WARREN (D), MASSACHUSETTS: Right here in Puerto Rico, an island that's been devastated both by a financial crisis and by twin hurricanes, right now has a government that is taking money off the island in order to send it to Wall Street, and cutting services, healthcare services, schools, right here in Puerto Rico. It's just a prime example of government that works for the rich and the powerful and doesn't work for the people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: So Steve, it sounds like she's banking on Puerto Rican voters, other Latinos holding that against the president at the ballot box. What do you think?
STEVE CORTES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Right. Well, look, I think first in terms of the democratic primary, you're absolutely right that, of course, minority votes are key. They're so key, in fact, that somebody like Beto O'Rourke who's an Irishman, Robert Francis O'Rourke has somehow re-branded himself as a Hispanic. And somebody like Elizabeth Warren at least for a while tried to re-brand herself as a Native American. So, you know, clearly it's important, but, and it will matter --
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: And Ted Cruz who ran for president.
CORTES: Well, Ted Cruz is Hispanic, by the way. And one thing I would point out, to be fair to Republicans, two of the three finalists in the Republican primary were Hispanics, all three were sons of immigrants.
So we're often unfairly maligned as a party that doesn't like immigration and doesn't like diversity, while we had two minorities in the final three, and all three the sons of immigrants. So we are a party the loves legal immigration and we're a lot more diverse than people think.
[22:55:00] But having said that, clearly, minority votes again, the Democratic primary mean a lot more than they do in the Republican primary.
LEMON: All right, great. I am out of time. So you were a surrogate, Nina, for Bernie Sanders. He called the president racist. Do you think we're going to hear more of that from Bernie and other candidates? TURNER: I think so, Don. You've got to call it like you see it. And it's just unfortunate. I mean, yes, the Republicans had some diversity in 2016. But look at what this president is propagating since he took the oath of office. Everything he's done has been the antithesis of -- I say most things that he has done has certainly been the antithesis.
It's one thing to talk diversity. It's another thing to put forth policies that push that. What Senator Bernie Sanders has been doing, Don, since 2016, I mean he's out there with workers who are striking, who's just out there with myriad (ph) of folks who've been striking. He took it to Amazon and got them to raise the minimum wage to $15 an hour, Disney.
What people are going to be looking for, whether they are of color or otherwise, are people who are authentic and people who are going to stand up for them and not the billionaire class in this country.
LEMON: OK. I got to go, Steve. You want to make a quick comment, please. I hate to leave you out.
CORTES: No, listen. I would just say that, to me, if President Trump is a racist, he's the worst one in history because all he's done is make life better and make opportunity more broad for communities of color. And he's been --
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: I thought you were saying he was a terrible, terrible person.
CORTES: No.
LEMON: I get what you're saying.
CORTES: He's a terrible racist because he isn't one.
TURNER: Please have us back on this, Don, please.
LEMON: I know. Look, to be continued. You already know that. Thank you, both. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
