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Don Lemon Tonight

CBS News polls says more Americans believe special counsel Robert Mueller's investigation is justified than politically motivated; Russian pop star tied to 2016 Trump Tower meeting cancels four-city U.S. tour; Trump team rebuffs Mueller request for interview; "Three Identical Strangers" premieres Sunday on CNN; Top Russian Democrat Denies Allegations from the U.S.; Michael Cohen Been Issued a Subpoena; Mueller's Team Getting More Public Support. Aired 11-12p ET

Aired January 24, 2019 - 23:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[23:00:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DON LEMON, CNN HOST: This is CNN Tonight. I'm Don Lemon.

We have some major developments in the Russia investigation tonight, so we're devoting this entire hour to an in-depth look at all things Russia.

President Trump's former lawyer Michael Cohen has been issued a subpoena to testify before the Senate intelligence committee next month. Cohen's lawyer says Trump's former fixer will comply.

In March, Cohen begins a three-year prison term for a variety of crimes, including lying to Congress about Trump tower Moscow deal. He says he lied to protect the president.

The top Democrat on the intelligence committee says Cohen needs to provide a lot more answers about that project.

Also, tonight, a CNN exclusive, a top Russian official lashing out when asked if President Trump's workers working as an agent for Vladimir Putin's government. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SERGEI RYABKOV, DEPUTY FOREIGN MINISTER OF RUSSIA: I mean, it's completely, completely out of touch with anything that could be conceived as, you know, anywhere close to reality.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Is Special Counsel Robert Mueller dropping a hint that more indictments are coming in the Russia investigation? We're going to take a close look at all of that in just a moment.

And Trump associate Roger Stone is sure that he is a target of Mueller's team and says publicly that he expects to be indicted. But more than a year and a half into Mueller's investigation, all he's heard from the special counsel is silence. Lots to discuss. I'm going to get straight to Michael Cohen's

subpoena, though, by the Senate intel committee.

Shimon Prokupecz joins us now with all of that. Shimon, good evening to you. A day after Michael Cohen said that he was delaying his House testimony, the Senate intel committee issuing the subpoena now, calling on him to testify. There is a whole lot that he could tell the committee, especially behind closed doors about President Trump.

SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE REPORTER: Right. There is a whole lot. And obviously, this committee has been the big committee, one of the committees that has been the most respected in terms of this Russia investigation. This has been almost their entire focus, has been the interference of Russians in the election.

Also, interestingly enough, Don, this is the committee that Michael Cohen came before and lied and wound up pleading guilty and admitting in court that he did it, he lied to them to protect the president politically.

So now he will have the opportunity to come in, not having to protect the president, and hopefully will be able to tell the truth, because when you think about it, we've been given so many different answers about this certainly this Moscow project. When did the president know about it? When did he start it? When did he end it? How many times was he briefed?

And these are certainly some of the questions that these senators are going to have for him. And hopefully, hopefully at some point we will all get the truth, because up to now we've heard so many different versions of this.

LEMON: Yes. Let's get to, let's talk about the Mueller grand jury, because there is some movement in that today. And I'm speaking about Jerome Corsi's step-son, right, testifying.

PROKUPECZ: Yes.

LEMON: He is of course an -- he is an associate of Roger Stone. What's this about? And also, talking to me about the timing. Mueller doesn't typically convene his grand jury on a Thursday, right?

PROKUPECZ: Right. And this could give us a big clue that perhaps maybe something is coming. Honestly, I think we're all kind of on edge thinking perhaps that something may be coming tomorrow.

Because his grand jury, the Mueller grand jury normally does not meet on Thursdays, the last time they met on a Thursday, the following day on that Friday is when a bunch of Russians were indicted for the hacking and the dissemination of the fake news and social media.

So, there is some concern, I should say. Certainly, we're all on edge thinking that maybe tomorrow there will be some indictments.

Now Jerome Corsi, an associate of Roger Stone, they may not be on the best terms right now. Mueller obviously has had a lot of interest in Roger Stone. He's been trying to talk to Jerome Corsi. Jerome Corsi at one point was cooperating. He has stopped cooperating with the Mueller team.

[23:05:02] So, now the Mueller team has brought in his step-son. And they've been questioning him. He testified before the grand jury today, and really, this may all have to do with WikiLeaks, of course, and whether or not there was any knowledge beforehand by Roger Stone, perhaps the president's campaign about the release of some of these e- mails that WikiLeaks wound up releasing.

LEMON: And clearly, look, this is having an impact on Roger Stone, right, Shimon because he seemed like a clear target 20 months ago when Mueller was appointed the special counsel. But he's essentially living in limbo right now, right?

PROKUPECZ: He has been living in limbo. He has been avoiding Friday nights. He has been hiding sort of at home, waiting, thinking that this was going to be the day that he was going to be arrested.

Fridays are -- you know, typically we all expect to see some activity, and sometimes there are arrests. He's back, he says, to living his life, enjoying pizza. He is certainly hanging out with his dogs, which is interesting and what he's doing with his dogs I think is pretty funny. You know, on social media, using them to profess his innocence, and here's how he's doing that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Roger Stone did nothing wrong.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Roger Stone did nothing wrong.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PROKUPECZ: So, it's been those videos all the things. Clearly, Roger has a lot of time on his hands. Try to keep himself busy, entertained, you know. Roger is this colorful guy who -- I mean, what are you going to say? What are you going to do?

LEMON: Play that again, please. One more time. Please, please, please. One more time.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Roger Stone did nothing wrong.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Roger Stone did nothing wrong.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: There you go. Too much time on my hands.

PROKUPECZ: Yes.

LEMON: All right. Thank you, Shimon.

PROKUPECZ: See you tomorrow.

LEMON: Sometimes you need just a little --

PROKUPECZ: We do.

LEMON: -- yes, a little laugh break. Thank you. Let's bring in now John Dean, Ryan Lizza. Listen, none of this is anything to laugh about, but sometimes you need that moment because it's so serious. So much news coming at us. Good evening, gentlemen. A day after -- let's talk than dog video. It's a little weird, Ryan. But I mean, going back to --

(CROSSTALK)

RYAN LIZZA, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: A little?

LEMON: Go on. What did you want to say?

LIZZA: No, I was just saying a little.

LEMON: Yes, a little.

LIZZA: Which Roger -- I think it would be a good BuzzFeed quiz. Which Roger Stone dog are you?

LEMON: You know, let's go back to the Mueller grand jury convening today. I mean, that's not typical. Are you thinking tomorrow could be, you know, indictment Friday maybe?

LIZZA: OK. I always refer to Shimon on these things who follows him more closely than anyone. But the indictments tend to come on Fridays, and they do tend to come after there is some visible activity at the courthouse in and around the grand jury room. But I mean, it's like, this is like throwing darts a at dart board. Right, Don.

LEMON: Yes.

LIZZA: We really have so little visibility into the inner workings of the Mueller camp, and it would just be a guess.

LEMON: A key point with Roger Stone, John, so many people around him have spoken to the special counsel. Roger Stone hasn't, though. What's going on? Why is that significant?

JOHN DEAN, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, typically, that would tell us that he could be a target. Targets aren't brought before grand juries, and sometimes they're actually sent target letters if they want to go before a grand jury.

Apparently, not even that has happened with him, but a number of his friends and associates, many of them have been asked questions about him and his knowledge during the campaign of advanced knowledge of what WikiLeaks was going to do, why John Podesta was coming up, and it appeared during the campaign that he had inside knowledge. He denies that now, but I don't think Mueller is taking the denials at face value. LEMON: OK. So, we, you know, we were discussing yesterday how Michael

Cohen said, you know, I'm not going to -- he wanted to postpone his testimony. But he's been subpoenaed by the Senate intel committee, Ryan. They typically conduct their hearings behind closed doors, but do you think he will still testify in public on the House side?

LIZZA: Yes, you know, I think I have a little bit of news on this because I was talking to a member of Cohen's team today, and he was very clear -- I can say who it is. It was Lanny Davis. And Lanny says that they are -- Lanny Davis, for those people who don't know is one of the communications and legal advisers for Michael Cohen.

And he was very clear that they are expecting a subpoena on the House side from one or both committees. That is the House oversight committee and/or the House intelligence committee. If they get one from the House oversight committee, that will almost certainly be a public hearing.

[23:10:00] And, look, you know, before he pulled out of his public testimony this week, Michael Cohen was preparing his statement. He was preparing what he was going to tell the American people. And the people around him frankly were calling this his John Dean moment.

It's one of the rare moments in life where I now get to say John Dean, what do you think of that? Because they very much are thinking along the lines of what, John, you did, in the Nixon era and trying to use that public testimony to turn his reputation around, be contrite, apologize to the American people and confess his sins.

And I still think despite the fact that he pulled out, that that is going to happen if indeed Elijah Cummings on the House oversight committee sends that subpoena that they are expecting.

LEMON: This may come as a surprise to you, John, but the president tweeted on Michael Cohen today, OK. Writing this. "So interesting that bad lawyer Michael Cohen who sadly will not be testifying before Congress is using the lawyer of crooked Hillary Clinton to represent him. Gee, how did that happen? Remember July 4th weekend when crooked went before FBI and wasn't sworn in, no tape, nothing?"

John, you know, we've talked about this before, not being sworn in does not mean that you can lie to the FBI. It's against the law to lie to the FBI, but doesn't this just showcase that Hillary Clinton did sit down with the FBI, and the president still hasn't been interviewed in person by the special counsel and hasn't sat down with anyone?

DEAN: He doesn't really understand the world around him. He refuses to read other than what is fed to him apparently in small bits. He likes to get his news from television. Fox doesn't carry the other side of the story on Hillary, nor do they likely cover the other side of the story on Michael Cohen and why he's decided not to testify. He just knows he's not.

But it appears, as Ryan says, I wouldn't be surprised at all if they go ahead and they do issue a subpoena, and Michael went honor it. Don, let me tell you just briefly what the history is, why there are

these conflicts between special prosecutors and congressional committees. During Watergate, no committee asked permission to proceed with their investigation of Watergate.

During the Iran-Contra, they didn't ask permission. During Watergate, it disrupted nothing. During Iran-Contra, because they immunized Oliver Stone and a few witnesses, their cases were later overturned by the court, saying the government had to make a choice. They could either have him testify under immunity before Congress or and waive prosecution, or they could prosecute him and not have him testify. But that situation doesn't seem to apply with Cohen and many of the situations today.

LEMON: Do you think, John, that Michael Cohen is concerned Republicans could take these not so subtle hints and ask Michael Cohen questions about his family and any other legal land mines there?

DEAN: I'm sure they not -- not only does he understand that's likely, it is very likely that's exactly what will happen. I can't imagine Jim Jordan passing up an opportunity to showboat and to go on the attack and to try to disrupt something about the Mueller investigation and browbeating a witness.

LEMON: Quick, Ryan, please.

LIZZA: Yes. Just quickly, I think what might happen if they issue a subpoena, then there will be a back and forth between Cohen's team and the committee, and they will -- I think Cohen's team will try to come up with some guarantee that certain areas are off limits. I think that -- if he's subpoenaed, that's the next step in the process. There will be a little bit of a dance back and forth.

LEMON: Gentlemen, thank you both. I appreciate it.

LIZZA: Thanks, Don.

LEMON: A top Russian official says questions about President Trump possibly being a Russian agent are, his words, "completely out of touch." But are they? We'll dig into it next.

[23:15:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: In an exclusive interview with CNN, Russia's deputy foreign minister says questions about President Trump possibly being a Russian agent are completely out of touch. And despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary, he also denies Russia interfered in the 2016 presidential election.

Let's discuss now. Susan Glasser is here. Susan, good to have you.

SUSAN GLASSER, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Thank you.

LEMON: So, Russia's deputy foreign minister Sergei Ryabkov, he spoke to my colleague Frederik Pleitgen and he is scoffing at the suggestion that Trump could be an agent of Russia. Here he is. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RYABKOV: I mean, it's completely, completely out of touch with anything that could be conceived as, you know, anywhere close to the reality. I am amazed. I'm embarrassed by what I see and what I hear from the U.S. I mean, it's just incredible how people are speculating on Russia and the whole issue on how relationship developed in recent years for domestic political purposes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: So, let's just be clear, OK, Susan, this wasn't just people who know. I wonder if this was the FBI investigating Trump's actions because they seemed in their mind to be benefitting Russia. They were concerned.

GLASSER: Well, that's right. This is -- you're referring to the recent New York Times report, which I think to me was one of the most significant revelations we've had in recent weeks saying that the FBI had opened a counterintelligence investigation to understand what was motivating President Trump and whether his actions that appeared to benefit Russia, you know, were in fact designed to do so.

It's interesting in the interview, right. What is in a name? Agent is a technical term of art. I mean, you know, it's a classic government official thing. What exactly is he denying there? You know.

[23:20:04] Was Donald Trump a paid spy of the Russian intelligence? That's very, very implausible. That's hard to believe, but there is substantial evidence to suggest a long pattern of both actions and policy statements on their behalf, and the idea that Putin might have something over Donald Trump.

Call it kompromat is the Russian term of art, but clearly, questions about whether because of his business dealings or other things we don't yet know about Donald Trump was in some way vulnerable to being manipulated by the Russians. Those are real questions.

LEMON: But this Sergei Ryabkov also denying that Russia even tries to interfere in U.S. politics. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RYABLOV: I'm calling the U.S. side not to posture itself as a site that only, you know, condemns and the suspects and, you know, accuses Russia of anything.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: The president would probably agree with this.

GLASSER: The president has in the past, as you know, suggested maybe it was some, you know, a 400-pound guy in his basement. Maybe it with us the Chinese. Who knows? So, both the Russians and Donald Trump at various points have been on the record as denying this. But remember, you now, you should take these statements with an

enormous grain of salt. Not only have all U.S. intelligence agencies agreed with the conclusion that it was Russia's election interference, by the way, not just interference, but interference on Donald Trump's behalf.

But you know, these are the same folks who told us Russia did not invade Ukraine and did not invade Crimea. Well guess what? That was in 2014. The Russians are still there, you know. So, just because they say it doesn't happen doesn't mean it didn't happen.

LEMON: More from the deputy foreign minister. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RYABKOV: Please do not be afraid of your own shadow. We are not that threatening. We are not trying to meddle into the U.S. domestic affairs. We do not benefit from the situation in which our relationship finds itself right now. So we are prepared to work towards a better end.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: OK. So that is not true, Susan. They meddled in the 2016 election. But when you hear him say that they're not that threatening, he says that, but does Russia want to be viewed as a threat?

GLASSER: Well, I think what I've observed of Vladimir Putin throughout his long tenure is that he's definitely a believer in the leadership maxim that it's better to be feared than loved. And I think they would rather be viewed as a threat than viewed as a pushover.

And you know, there's a might makes right quality to much of Russians view of power and how it should exercise in the world. It's also -- you have to understand it's a very zero-sum political world, right? In their view, we win, you lose. You win, I lose.

And so, in fact, I think that really misrepresents the Russian view of the world they have defined, and in particular, President Putin has defined himself politically by the idea that the west has gained in our expense, and it's my job to reassert ourselves.

And that has designed a long, almost a two decade-long campaign of pushing back aggressively against the United States and NATO. And, again, aggressively intervening not only in the U.S. domestic political affairs, but also in those of other western European allies, Eastern European countries.

This is straight out of the Kremlin's playbook. It's not a one-off what just happened in the United States 2016 election. This is a playbook that the Kremlin has been using to operate in and to meddle in other countries' political elections well before the U.S.

So, it's an experience that unfortunately a lot of Democratic countries have had in recent years with the Russians, not at all isolated to the United States. LEMON: Susan Glasser, always a pleasure. Thank you.

GLASSER: Thank you.

LEMON: New polls show growing support for the Mueller investigation, coming just as someone involved in the infamous Trump tower meeting backs out of a planned U.S. tour.

[23:25:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Public opinion on the Russia investigation is swinging in Robert Mueller's favor. CBS News poll shows more Americans believe the Russia investigation is justified than politically motivated, as the president claims.

Let's discuss now with Juliette Kayyem, Steve Hall, and Asha Rangappa. Good evening to all of you.

So, Juliette, the numbers up percent since past November. Why do you think Mueller is getting the support now?

JULIETTE KAYYEM, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: I think part of it at some stage it becomes undeniable that something is wrong. And whether it's the indictments, whether it's the lies, whether it's just these people that seem to be surrounding themselves around Trump and then get implicated in the Mueller investigation.

It heartens me because it just says outside of politics, people are just looking at the facts now, and Mueller remains quiet except for that one press statement last Friday. And shows that at least whatever Mueller is going to come out with, some report, that there will be open minds to be receptive to whatever the ultimate findings are. And I think all three of us have been pretty cautious on what in fact that will be. We just don't know yet.

LEMON: Yes. Steve, you know, in the time between these two polls, the Russia investigation has had significant developments with Michael Cohen, pleaded guilty to lying to Congress. The New York Times reported on the FBI's counterintelligence investigation to determine if Trump was working on Russia's behalf. All of these kinds of stories are helping Mueller's case, are they?

[23:29:56] STEVE HALL, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, you know, it would be interesting to see. I would imagine that they would, but of course the Mueller investigation itself is such a black box that it's difficult to see any reaction to any of the stuff that we've seen out there, Don.

But I tell you what struck me about these numbers when I first saw them. I was absolutely astonished that a still significant number of people, somewhere in the 35 to 40 percent range if I'm not mistaken...

[23:30:00]

DON LEMON, CNN HOST: Right. HALL: -- actually believe that there is some sort of innocent narrative here, that there is some sort of explanation as to why everything or all these different ties go back from the Trump team back to Russia. It's just amazing to me that people can actually think no, there actually is a good reason for that and it's explainable.

In my view, what really explains the largeness of that number of people who still to this day think that there might be politicization in the Mueller investigation is the effectiveness of Russian information operations. They've got at least 40 percent of the American public, I think, bamboozled because of a very effective long- term information operation that they've been waging over the past couple of years now.

LEMON: You know, when I saw the numbers similar to me, what you think -- what I think is similar to what you say, and especially considering all the people who have pleaded guilty to lying to investigators, who have been indicted, who are going to jail, and still -- I mean, because from the Mueller investigation, all of this has happened. So that shows you the legitimacy, 100 percent of the investigation already.

It is -- it is -- it's shocking to see how much people want to have their beliefs about either politics or a person confirmed just because, you know, they don't see things a certain way. But anyway, I digress.

Asha, I want to bring you in here. Let's talk about the son of a pop star -- pop star son of Russian oligarch canceling his planned U.S. tour. I want you to listen to this, and then we'll talk about it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

EMIN AGALAROV, SON OF RUSSIAN OLIGARCH: My dear friends, I really hate to be recording this message right now, but I'm left without a choice. Due to circumstances beyond my control, I am forced to postpone my scheduled U.S. and Canadian tour. Basically, I've been put in this position against my will.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: So Asha, that is Emin Agalarov. He couldn't reach a deal with the special counsel's office guaranteeing that he could leave the United States once he arrived. What does it tell you, that Mueller's team is still trying to question him about that 2016 Trump Tower meeting that he and his father helped to set up?

ASHA RANGAPPA, CNN LEGAL AND NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Yeah, you know, this Mueller saga has more characters than "War and Peace." Just as a reminder, it was his father -- no, his publicist that set up the Trump Tower meeting between Manafort, Don Jr. and Jared Kushner and the multiple Russians who were at this meeting where they ostensibly talked about adoptions, and this has become a focal point of what was discussed in exchange for this dirt on Hillary Clinton.

You know, I think Mueller has questions. Apparently, this is a very big focus for him, and, you know, it could mean at one extreme that he has evidence that this -- Emin was involved in criminal activity, but I think more likely that he may have evidence that will illuminate it and that could mean that he could be subpoenaed before a grand jury, he could be subpoenaed before Congress and that could delay his departure.

You know, I think that the bigger picture that this highlights is one thing that gets missed, this investigation is as big of a problem for many Russians and for Putin as it is for Trump. They have an interest in this going away, and I think that that convergence of interests ought to, you know -- we need to take note of that, that there is potentially pressure or at least a desire on this other end, this country that Trump wants to please to not have this investigation continue because it makes life difficult for a lot of them.

LEMON: All right. We have much more to talk about, so everybody stay right there. The president constantly criticizes Hillary Clinton for not testifying under oath to the FBI, even though lying to the FBI, oath or not, is a crime. So how did Trump go from saying he'd love to speak to the special counsel to rebuffing a request to do just that?

[23:35:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: So the president taking aim on Twitter, of course, at his former lawyer and fixer, Michael Cohen. "So interesting that bad lawyer Michael Cohen, who sadly will not be testifying before Congress, is using the lawyer of crooked Hillary Clinton to represent him. Gee, how did that happen? Remember July 4th weekend when crooked went before FBI and wasn't sworn in, no tape, nothing?"

Back with me now, Juliette Kayyem, Steve Hall and Asha Rangappa. So, Asha, I'm wondering if this is the height of hypocrisy, because Hillary Clinton submitted to what had to be a tough interview before the FBI, and it's against the law to lie whether you're sworn in or not, right?

RANGAPPA: Absolutely. So, if you lie under oath, it is perjury, but if you lie to any kind of federal official, particularly one in an investigation, that is a violation of 18 USC 1001, which is lying to federal officials. So she is still obligated to tell the truth. And FBI interviews are not recorded. That is not a standard part of the process.

And I just think it's quite rich that someone who has avoided at all costs sitting down with Mueller and answering questions in person has the gal to, you know, criticize someone who did.

[23:40:04] I mean, this is someone who has kicked the can down the road, submitted written responses crafted carefully by his lawyers, I don't know how carefully considering who his lawyers are, but, you know, and who still won't sit down even though Mueller still wants to speak to him. So, you know, I think this is another distraction.

LEMON: But it wasn't always that way where he didn't want to speak to the special counsel. Watch this.

JULIETTE KAYYEM, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Yeah.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Would you be willing to speak under oath to give your version of --

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: One hundred percent.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice over): Are you going to talk to Mueller?

TRUMP (voice over): I'm looking forward to it actually.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice over): To reach a higher standard, you would do it under oath, correct?

TRUMP (voice over): Oh, I would do it under oath.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice over): Mr. President, would you still like to testify to Special Counsel Robert Mueller, sir?

TRUMP: Thank you. Sure, I would like to.

I would love to speak because we've done nothing wrong. I would love to speak. I would love to go. Nothing I want to do more. I would love to speak. I would love to. Nobody wants to speak more than me. In fact, against my lawyers, because most lawyers say never speak with anything.

JEFF GLOR, ANCHOR, CBBS: Are you more likely to sit for an interview now?

TRUMP: My lawyers are working on that. I've always wanted to do an interview because -- look, there's been no collusion.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(LAUGHTER)

LEMON: Juliette, I heard you wanted to weigh in before. So what's the problem? Why hasn't he agreed to sit down?

(LAUGHTER)

LEMON: Because no one wants to speak more than him.

KAYYEM: I know. I have to tell you a little secret between the two of us. The president lies and was lying consistently. No one looking -- no one knowing who he was and knowing how he speaks and knowing that he has something to hide, believe it, he would ever willingly go before Mueller or any FBI investigator to tell a story that is almost impossible to tell.

And so he did today what he always does. He deflects to this Hillary Clinton story. Hillary completes him, you know, from the movie. He can't quit her.

(LAUGHTER)

KAYYEM: He just --

LEMON: Don't forget Obama.

KAYYEM: He just keeps bringing her back. I know. And what we also have to remember, maybe it's a lesson as well, Hillary Clinton did those interviews about her e-mails and about her server. In hindsight, I have to just be honest. It just looks so silly compared to the possibility, right, that this president and his team were somehow either coordinated or in collusion with or cooperated with the Russians.

So, she goes before the FBI on what in hindsight just seems not forgivable, but just so minor compared to the structural and governance and political challenges that are coming out of, you know, essentially Trump's cooperation with the Russians and him now trying to hide it.

LEMON: Yeah. Steve, Mueller's team and the president's lawyers, they've been negotiating for probably a year, maybe more for an in- person interview before Trump finally submitted written answers to questions. Could Mueller have been stringing them along all the while, collecting evidence here?

HALL: You know, I suppose it's possible because again, in that black box that is Mueller's investigation, we know so little about what's going on. I mean, again, the discipline there compared to pretty much everything else that is swirling around here has been pretty impressive.

But, you know, when I hear Donald Trump says stuff like that, it takes me back to may days when I was a CIA case officer. You know, Asha probably remembers this from dealing with, you know, confidential informants. Sometimes people will say whatever they feel like they got to say that's going to help them the most in any given time. It's almost human second nature.

And I don't care whether you're the president of the United States or who you are, but if you feel like the walls are closing in and things are not going well, then your going to say what you got to say, and then you're going to count on your lawyers afterwards to sort of fix it for you.

So, that seems to me what Donald Trump was doing. It's going to get increasingly harder for him to do that, I think, as the Mueller case continues and the investigation starts the wrap up.

LEMON: Right after the president submitted those answers, Asha, we learned that Cohen told Mueller that Trump Tower -- that Trump Tower Moscow negotiations were ongoing much longer than we thought, and that Manafort had lied to Mueller and his plea deal was toast. Do you think that timing was deliberate?

RANGAPPA: Absolutely. I mean, you know, and just to go back -- I mean, I do think that Trump's early lawyers, Ty Cobb was kind of encouraging him to have this publicly conciliatory tone. He did allow his White House lawyer, Don McGahn, to just speak freely to Mueller, which, you know, who knows what McGahn told him since there was no attorney-client privilege and that was waived.

But, look, once he gets the president's answers in writing, that is still subject to that same statute that I mentioned earlier, that he is basically saying that they are truthful and he can be prosecuted for false statements under if he made those to Mueller.

[23:44:58] So, once he's locked in, then Mueller has said, look, I know these guys have lied. And so if Trump had in any way, you know, tried to align his answers with what he thought those people were going to say, he is in hot water right now.

LEMON: Thank you, all. I appreciate it. We have a crazy story that you need to hear about. Triplets, separated at birth, meet each other 19 years later. A new CNN film tells their story and all about the agency behind the whole thing.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Imagine walking down the street, opening your front door or picking up a newspaper, and then discovering someone who looks just like you. What would you do?

[23:49:58] The all new CNN original film "Three Identical Strangers" dives deep into the surreal story of triplets separated at birth who miraculously reunited with each other by chance when they were 19. Here's a preview.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And I said, hi, is Eddie home? She said, no, who is calling, please? And I thought, OK, now I have to go into this whole thing on the phone. I said, well, my name is David Kellman and I was born July 12, 1961. And I'm looking at a newspaper, and basically, I think I'm looking at two of me. I think I might be the third. And I think she dropped the phone, actually.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And I remember hearing her voice over the phone, oh, my god, they're coming out of the woodwork.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was a miracle. The first time that the boys met together, the three together, was at my house. And the three of them ended up like puppies wrestling on the floor. It was the most incredible -- it was the most incredible thing. They belong to each other. They knew each other. There was no formal introduction. I mean, when you meet somebody for the first time, you don't end up rolling around on the floor with them.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was truly not fully believable, even though it was happening. It was still surreal.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Joining me is the director of "Three Identical Strangers," Tim Wardle. Tim, thank you so much. Such an incredible story. You really did a good job with it. And we saw a small piece there in the clip. Without spoiling, everyone wants to know, how did it happen? Why? And so on. What can you tell us?

TIM WARDLE, DIRECTOR: Well, what I can tell you, Don, it's the story of three brothers, triplets, separated at birth, raised by three families, completely unaware of each other's existence, who then reunite by coincidence in 1980 in New York when they're 19 years old.

The film kind of then explores what happens next, that they become famous and go on lots of talks shows and stopped, but also goes back in time to explore the very sinister reasons behind their separation.

LEMON: Yeah. And I want to talk more about that. I actually do remember them from the talk show circuit, you know, from awhile ago. But it is a heartwarming story. But as you said, you call it sinister. There's a serious investigation into some pretty disturbing secrets. It had to be challenging to put all these pieces together and to find out what happened to these boys.

WARDLE: It was really challenging, partially because beyond their initial reunion, there wasn't actually that much information about them available. You know, this is not a story that will exists in a kind of pre-internet era. It's not something you can kind of research on the internet. We had to do a lot of old-fashioned kind of door knocking and looking through archives to kind of piece this story together.

And it was really challenging because a lot of the people involved in the separation of these brothers don't want to talk about it because it's so controversial, and what they did is regarded with such horror today.

LEMON: Yeah. Was it because of this film that these three brothers were able to track down more of the information about their backgrounds?

WARDLE: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it took about a year of making the film and like pushing, but they finally got access to some records about their -- around their separation which had been suppressed and hidden and were actually buried in a university vault due to only be opened in 2065.

LEMON: So in telling the brothers' story, you're actually tackling some really big philosophical questions, right? We always talk about nature versus nurture. And I think it's fair to say, the bulk of the film is about the brothers, but you also talk of other people who had a similar experiences as the brothers. What do you think people will take away from that aspect of the film, nature versus nurture?

WARDLE: I mean, the film explores -- one of the things I think is really interesting about their story is that superficially it's this not really interesting human interest story about these brothers separated and reunited again, but it doesn't allow you to explore much bigger philosophical ideas around free will, nature versus nurture. I hope people watch the film and think about, what makes us who we are? Is it our genes, our genetics, or is it our environment? And I think it's as relevant today, that question, as it was in the '60s.

LEMON: Yeah. Other people contacted you after this film. Can you tell us anything -- who had the same agency as the brothers and similar experiences. Can you tell us anything?

[23:55:03] WARDLE: Yeah, I mean, after the film played in cinemas, we got a call from a lady from New Jersey saying, I've just seen the film and I was adopted around the same time from the same adoption agency in New York City. She was living in New Jersey. She said, I've just taken a DNA test and it matched me with someone in California.

LEMON: Wow.

WARDLE: And I looked her up on Facebook, and we look identical. I witnessed the meeting for the first time at the age of 54, and they were twin sisters separated in a very similar manner to these brothers, who only just this year found out about each other.

LEMON: Did you tape that? I hope you videotaped it.

WARDLE: I did.

LEMON: Or recorded it.

WARDLE: A little video on the internet that you can find. It is called "Two Identical Strangers."

LEMON: Thank you so much, Tim Wardle, the director of "Three Identical Strangers." I really appreciate it. It is a fascinating film. Be sure to tune in. The award-winning CNN original film "Three Identical Strangers." It premieres right here on CNN, Sunday night at 9:00.

Thanks for watching. Our coverage continues.

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