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Don Lemon Tonight

Black People Offended by a Racist Photo; Democrats Called for Governor Ralph Northam (D-VA) to Resign; Virginia's Governor Apologizes For Racist Photos On His 1984 Medical School Yearbook Page, I'm Deeply Sorry; Senator Cory Booker Announces He's Running For President. Aired 10-11p ET

Aired February 01, 2019 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[22:00:00] ANDERSON COOPER, CNN: The news continues. I want to turn things over to Don Lemon and CNN Tonight.

DON LEMON, CNN HOST: Hello, everyone. This is CNN Tonight. I'm Don Lemon.

And I wish I didn't have to talk about this tonight. I wish we didn't have to talk about the racist part of yet another American politician, another of our leaders who publicly traffic in racism, who proudly wore some of the most offensive symbols in our nation's history.

And I wish we didn't have to talk about this on the first night of black history month. Maybe it's good. We're having this discussion. But how many discussions like this are we going to have?

Our history is full of Americans who were proud to parade their racism publicly. The evidence is right here in black and white, a page from a 1984 medical school yearbook of Democratic Governor Ralph Northam of Virginia, showing a photo of two people, one in blackface, one in a KKK hood and robe. There it is. Look at it.

Governor Northam admits he's one in the people in that picture. He doesn't say whether he's the one in blackface or the one in the KKK robe.

Can you put that back up? Can we just put it back up? It doesn't matter though. They're equally as discussing and offensive. The governor put out a statement tonight.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. RALPH NORTHAM (D), VIRGINIA: That photo and the racist and offensive attitudes it represents does not reflect that person I am today or the way that I have conducted myself as a soldier, a doctor and a public servant. I am deeply sorry. I cannot change the decisions I made nor can I undo the harm my behavior caused then and today.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: So here are some important points. First, he apologized. He didn't resign, though. There's another thing the governor knew about this picture. He says he made the decision to appear in it. It is part of his past, and it's not so distant past. This was a yearbook photo from 1984, not 1954. He was 25 years old. He's in medical school.

There's no way he didn't know what he was doing when he posed for that picture, a picture that is a slap in the face to Americans of color, quite frankly, to every American.

This matters -- it should matter to every single one of us. None of us can forget what happened in Virginia in Charlottesville in 2017, white supremacists, neo-Nazis marching in the streets. Counter protester Heather Heyer murdered, mowed down by white supremacist who drove his car into the crowd. None of us can forget what the president of the United States said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: You also had people that were very fine people, on both sides. You had people in that group -- excuse me, excuse me -- I saw the same pictures as you did.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: I think that is why it is so important for the president to emphatically say once I did something really terrible, and it shouldn't happen, but it didn't. He had to do the whole on both sides thing, on both sides.

There are certain situations -- and you hear me talk about it all the time where there are -- there's no both sides. There are no both sides to racism. There are no both sides to sexism. There are no both sides to fact or non-fact and reality and nonreality. There are no both sides to a truth and a lie. There are no both sides to this.

And when I saw it, quite frankly, I wasn't surprised. If anybody out there, if all the folks who went to high school with me around the time 1984 -- I was a senior in high school in 1984. That is not shocking to me. People did that in 1984. It was not right. They thought it was funny. They laughed. And they paid no consequences because that's the way things were. And it was not so long ago.

So, all of these people who are either I feigned in shock or surprise or if you're really shocked or surprised, you have been living in a bubble because this was the reality especially for people like me in Louisiana and in southern states. I can't speak for the north, but this is not shocking. People did this all the time.

And I know there are a lot of people out there who have got some photo worry going on. Oh, my gosh, what is going to pop up with me right now? I know friends who's got photos of me and I wouldn't want -- listen, kids do stupid things.

[22:05:00] They take photos. They do dumb things. But this is more than dumb, this is racist. And if you don't -- if you're making an excuse for this, saying, this is what happened when this person was young, they were in high school, they were in college, they were in medical -- they were a young person. If you're making an excuse for it, you need to check yourself. It wasn't -- and that's why I got so upset with the whole blackface.

Do you remember that when I said blackface was not cool then? We were talking about a major news anchor saying that is black -- this is why people are so upset because they think that it was OK, but it wasn't. It hurt -- it deeply hurt people like me. It deeply hurt people like me.

So, if you even thought it was OK or you're somebody like Ralph Northam, then you owe people like me in this country a huge apology because you get on your high horse and get upset and say, oh, my gosh, you're being too rough on people. You know what you can do without being too rough on people. Put it where the sun don't shine.

Ralph Northam talked about Trump's both sides remarks just one month later, quote, "I regret that the president of this great country of ours did not denounce what they were -- what they were there for. He didn't call it out." I'm talking about Charlottesville. He didn't call it for what it was.

Racism is not just something from our collective past. Just last week, Florida Secretary of State Michael Ertel resigned after photos of him at a party in blackface as a Katrina victim were publicly revealed. That was last week.

Governor Northam has apologized, but is that enough? A lot of top Democratic -- Democrats, members of his own party, well, they don't think so. Senators Kirsten Gillibrand, Kamala Harris, Elizabeth Warren, Congressman Eric Swalwell, Julian Castro, have all called on him to resign. I'm going to talk to Julian Castro in just moments here on this program.

And the Virginia House Democratic Caucus is having a conference call right now to discuss this situation. Democrats who have called out President Trump for his racist remarks cannot try to sweep this one under the rug just because Ralph Northam is one of their own.

Like I said, I wish we didn't have to talk about this, but the evidence is right there, in black and white or I should say right there in blackface.

Sara Sidner joins us now with more. Hi, Sara, good evening to you.

SARA SIDNER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You said it, Don. Look, the Democratic Governor of Virginia, Ralph Northam, is having to answer a question that I don't think any governor or any politician would want to answer in the 21st century. Are you the guy in blackface or are you the guy wearing the KKK robes?

That is a question he actually needs to answer, although he has not yet answered that question. But certainly, one of them is him. And he has admitted one of the people in that photo is him. The picture is from a 1984 yearbook when Ralph Northam at the Eastern Virginia Medical School. He was an adult. He was somewhere around 25 years old when that picture was taken.

Here's more of what he said after admitting that, indeed, one of those photos, either the guy in blackface or the person wearing the KKK robes, is indeed him and here's how he responded to some of that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NORTHAM: I accept responsibility for my past actions, and I am ready to do the hard work of regaining your trust. I have spent the past year as your governor fighting for a Virginia that works better for all people. I am committed to continuing that fight through the remainder of my term and living up to the expectations you set for me when you elected me to serve.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SIDNER: So, what you heard there was that he is planning on continuing his term and not resigning. That's what's happening right now in the hours after this came out.

I want to mention something else that just came out. There's this. There is a yearbook photo from his time when he was in college in 1981 when he was going to school at the Virginia Military Institute. You'll see the picture there. Now, underneath that picture it says what are his nicknames. And one of his nicknames is goose, and the other nickname is coon man.

Now, you well know that's coon is one of the most insulting black characters from the Jim Crow South. And so, there is more evidence that there was definitely something in his mind that made that OK because then four years later or three years later he is pictured either as a person in blackface or a person wearing KKK robes.

So, if you're one of those folks who thinks racism is not a part of our fabric, of America's fabric, our politicians keep on giving you a clue that it certainly, definitely is, Don.

[22:09:58] LEMON: Yes. And do you have more reaction from both Democrats and Republicans tonight? What do you know?

SIDNER: Yes. So, we are hearing -- we heard first from Republicans and this was actually first put out -- the picture of him from 1984, first put out by a Republican, a conservative web site. Here is what we heard from Republicans and the Republican Party there in Virginia.

Basically, they talk about the fact that racism has no place in Virginia, that these pictures are wholly inappropriate. "If Governor Northam appeared in blackface or dressed in a KKK robe, which by the way he has admitted he is one of those things, he should resign immediately."

That was followed up by some Democrats, some heavy hitting Democrats including senator and presidential candidate Kamala Harris. Tweeting out that, you know, "leaders are called to a higher standard and the state of racism should have no place in the halls of government. The governor of Virginia should step aside so the public and heal and move forward together."

We're also hearing from Congressman Eric Swalwell, from Julian Castro. We're hearing from many Democrats who are saying you know what, you've got to resign. You can't stay there.

But the two Virginia senators, Tim Kaine and Mark Warner have not called for him to resign, not directly anyway. They've called for him to think about it, to think about what to do next. And they decry what he said, but certainly there are plenty of Democrats now who are piling on this governor to walk away, that this is not OK and you cannot survive this. We will see what happens, Don.

LEMON: I'm just saying -- as I said before there's a lot of photo worry, yearbook worry going on out there --

SIDNER: Yes.

LEMON: -- because there are people who have other pictures like that, trust. So, this is a second major controversy facing the governor this week, right? I mean, this photo surfacing follows remarks that he made about abortion.

SIDNER: Yes, and that certainly sparked a lot of reaction out of Virginia and elsewhere. He was on a radio show. Governor Northam was appearing and discussing late-term abortion. And he said something like, you know, the infant would be resuscitated if that's what the mother and the family desired and then a discussion would ensue between the physician and the mother.

And a lot of people took that would say like, OK, the baby is still alive and you're talking about killing a child that has already been born, a huge outcry from that. And so, you know, he's already faced quite a bit of criticism there.

But this is something that he is going to have to face in a different way because his own party has come after him with guns blazing, and the public is now starting to see some of these pictures. There really isn't any good explanation, I don't think. But certainly, he needs to answer a few questions about this.

And there are a lot of people, Republicans and Democrats, who are saying you have to resign. We will see what happens with him in the next 48 hours, and as you said there is a phone call going on right now amongst Democrats --

LEMON: Yes.

SIDNER: -- as to what they are going to do in light of these pictures coming out. Not new pictures, pictures from 1984 or pictures from 1981, but certainly pictures that give everyone pause as to whether this person should be in any position of political power. Don?

LEMON: Sara, thank you so much for that.

SIDNER: Sure.

LEMON: If we have new reporting we'll get back to Sara. I do -- Sara mentioned a phone call wasn't the only phone call that has been going on. There's a phone call between Lieutenant Governor Justin Fairfax and Governor Ralph Northam. They spoke tonight about the photo controversy.

A spokesman for the that Lieutenant Governor Justin Fairfax tell CNN's Ryan Nobles that Fairfax will likely not weigh in tonight, Friday, on the racist controversy involving Governor Ralph Northam. The spokesman did confirm the governor and the lieutenant governor spoke today, Friday, but did not provide any insight into their call.

If we get more information on that, we'll bring it to you. A lot to talk about. Nia-Malika Henderson, Bakari Sellers, Tara Setmayer, April Ryan, we'll dig into it next.

[22:15:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: We're back now with our breaking news. Growing calls tonight for Virginia's Democratic Governor Ralph Northam to step down. He apologizes -- apologized for being on one of the people in this photo that you're looking at right there, this racist photo showing a person of blackface and another in a KKK hood and robe on his page in his medical school yearbook from 1984. He's apologized tonight again saying he's deeply sorry. Is that enough?

Let's bring on now Nia-Malika Henderson, Bakari Sellers, Tara Setmayer, April Ryan. April is the author of "Under Fire: Reporting from the Front Lines of the Trump White House." Hello.

NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: Hi, there.

LEMON: Glad you're all on. I just -- Bakari, we've been texting. Are you shocked? Like is this --

BAKARI SELLERS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Listen, am I --

LEMON: Yes.

SELLERS: Am I shocked? No, not at all. I mean, I think that racism is a part of the fabric of this country. I think that, you know, and it belongs to both Democrats and Republicans alike.

My trouble that I have here is that you have a man, a grown man who is 25 years old who won't admit which one of them he was. We don't know if he was the one in blackface or we don't know if he was the one wearing the KKK garb. That's one issue you have.

The other issue you have is one that I take a greater concern with which goes to the systemic racism in our country that there was a medical school and medical school students who thought that this was appropriate to put in their yearbook. And so, when you have these things in collective, he should resign, and then we have to have -- continue to have serious discussions about race in this country.

But for all of us on this panel are we surprised? No. Are we exhausted? Yes.

LEMON: Yes. Very well put. Nia, you have been reporting on this story. What are you learning? HENDERSON: Yes. Well, a lot of folks in Virginia in Richmond in particular -- in particular black lawmakers are in wait and see mode. There's a 7.30 -- 7 o'clock emergency meeting called with these black lawmakers. They had been talking all day. Some of the conversations that some of these folks had with Ralph Northam reveal that he apparently is telling folks that he doesn't remember which one he was in this photo, right?

He doesn't remember the details. He has obviously since then released a statement, the apology and then that video. And a lot of people find that video lacking. They want to see what he does next. They want to see if there's some sort of press conference, they want to see if there's any sort of full discussion of this because there's so many questions, right?

I mean, if you think about him being 25 years old, really, I think displaying perhaps a pretty deep level of racism, perhaps a deep hatred of black people, right?

[22:19:59] I mean, if you think about somebody putting on a KKK costume and using that as sort of a presentation of who they are as a medical student at 25 years old. And here you have him essentially saying that isn't who I was subsequently. What kind of work did he do subsequently to turn away from thinking that that was OK when he was 25?

Those are the questions I think a lot of black lawmakers in particular are waiting for answers on. And also waiting what Bobby Scott does, right? He's a congressman in Virginia to see, you know, what his -- is he going to weigh in on this?

You had the Richmond mayor weigh in on it and say that he should resign. And black lawmakers so far have basically said they see this as a complete betrayal, and they don't have any permanent friends or permanent enemies, only permanent interests. And the question is, will they see it in their interest at some point to call him --

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: Well, it's certainly -- you said it, who you are and how you feel about people of color, but it also shows a deep level of ignorance as well, Tara Setmayer.

HENDERSON: Right.

LEMON: So, listen, Tara, people are calling him to resign. We know that there are politicians of different stripes, Steve King, we were just talking about him, right, we were just talking about the guy who had to resign last week because of the -- being a Katrina victim. Young people do silly things, you know. I remember when I was younger and people would take in afros, you know, with a red, white, and blue and dress like a pastor (ph), like all those things.

But this is whole other level -- another level of ugliness and bigotry and hatred. Should he resign? TARA SETMAYER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Absolutely. I mean, there is absolutely no way in this day and age, in the climate that we're in, with the president we have, with what happened in Charlottesville in the state, the very state that Northam is governor of, that you can possibly remain in office and have any credibility.

What Democrat -- besides the fact that it is utterly unacceptable, there is no explanation in my opinion for someone in 1984, 20 plus years after the Civil Rights Act, still thinking it's OK to dress up, not only dress up like this, take a photograph like that and then submit it to a yearbook as a representative of who you want to be remembered as.

That tells me a whole lot about your upbringing, your values, what you think is acceptable. And to Nia's point, what has he done in his career exactly to demonstrate that he's had a come to Jesus' moment and renounced that level of racism.

LEMON: Yes.

SETMAYER: Nothing. And you know, today my mom and I went to go see "Green Book," which is a fast -- phenomenal movie by the way, we want to go and see it. And so, I'm even more riled up because it was a reminder of the Jim Crow South and what black Americans had to go through and just the disgusting inequities and injustices and racism and just not that long ago, in my mom's lifetime. She's 64.

So, you can't tell me that Ralph Northam didn't know exactly what he was doing and didn't find anything wrong with this. Clearly, he didn't. So, the crocodile tears tonight is not acceptable. And not only that, no Democrat worth their salt is going to stand next to this guy in a state like Virginia where I live, I'm a resident of Virginia, during the next presidential election coming up, they're not going to stand up next to them.

Virginia is a key state. How could they do that? If you go after Donald Trump for his racism and bigotry, there's no way you cannot call for Ralph Northam to resign. They called for Al Franken to resign for the Me Too Movement stuff.

LEMON: Yes.

SETMAYER: How could they possibly standby and let Northam get away with this?

LEMON: April, you say he won't survive it.

APRIL RYAN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: I don't think he can. Number one, you've got Republicans who are going to be relentless on this. They're going in. I'm hearing from my sources that they are already strategizing. Democrats are very upset, you know.

And then you have a community -- I was in Charlottesville two nights ago at the University of Virginia, UVA, and people were still fighting back after Charlottesville. That's now the verb not the noun for the town, but Charlottesville now is the verb of about racism, the fight against racism.

And people were upset about that night or those nights, that August with the riots and the death of that woman who was protesting for the good, not for the bad. And then they were talking about how the Klansman had just come back with their sheets, you know, during the summer.

And then you have your governor turn up with a picture in the yearbook with the get-up or in blackface. It's unacceptable. And then, Don, we're not talking about here. It's one thing to say OK, it happened in this yearbook, in the medical yearbook. But guess what? He did it a couple of years prior too, saying he was called coon man. You know, when did the light shine on him on the road to Damascus, that's what I want to know.

But nonetheless, this --

[22:25:01] SELLERS: Hey, man.

RYAN: Hey. If you want to go to church, let's go to church. But here's the deal. If -- as a man think it's -- this happened twice. Not once but twice.

SETMAYER: That we know of.

RYAN: So, who is he? That we -- yes, exactly. Thank you, Tara. That we know of.

LEMON: That we know of.

(CROSSTALK)

SETMAYER: Then he is grown. Let's be clear about that. He was grown, right?

RYAN: Grown, 25 years old.

SETMAYER: So, people need to -- my Republican friends --

RYAN: Able to drink beer.

SETMAYER: -- stop making the Brett Kavanaugh comparison, which I've seen some people tried to do. You went after Brett Kavanaugh with his yearbook. No, there's no freaking comparison. Brett Kavanaugh was in high school anyway.

(CROSSTALK)

RYAN: He is -- he is in medical (ph) school.

LEMON: And Brett Kavanaugh was accused of assault -- accused of sexual assault.

SETMAYER: Right.

LEMON: That's something different. RYAN: Yes.

SETMAYER: Right.

LEMON: Listen, you mentioned --

(CROSSTALK)

RYAN: That was high school. This is medical school.

LEMON: A 25 years old.

RYAN: Different.

LEMON: You mentioned Congressman Bobby Scott. Did you have a statement from him, Nia, because I have one? Did you --

HENDERSON: No. Let's --

LEMON: You said they are waiting.

HENDERSON: Yes.

LEMON: Why don't we save that for the other side of the break?

So, Bobby Scott now is responding and we'll play it on the other side of the break. We'll be right back.

HENDERSON: Great.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: OK, so everyone is back with me now. Let's put them up. Nia, I just want to -- because you mentioned. Let me just read it. And this is from our Suzanne Malveaux. Thank you, Suzanne for getting the statement for us.

It says, Virginia Congressman Bobby Scott issued the following statement regarding Virginia Governor Ralph Northam. "It is never easy to condemn a personal friend. But Governor Northam's past behavior is indefensible. I know the governor has dedicated his life to public service and he has advance policies to help African-Americans in Virginia and from all walks of life. I take him at his word that he is deeply sorry and that he understands that his behavior was inappropriate and offensive. History will have to judge his life and public record, and his chapter will be a major stain on that record. The governor must now make the right decision that is best for the commonwealth of Virginia."

[22:30:06] What is that right decision? What is he saying?

HENDERSON: Yes, I think the most important part of their statements is the last part, they're basically giving him room to make the right decision, which I think at this point folks are saying is that he should resign. You had a similar statement from Mark Warner. They're sort of giving him a room in respect, but this is all but calling him -- on him to resign. And Bob got not wanting to say those words, but I think that is the inference in particular from that last statement.

Also when he says, you know, I know he is had a good record in terms of, you know, public service, but you know, it's sort of not enough at this point. That is how I read that statement and translate it.

LEMON: All right. Standby, you guys. I need to get to someone now. Joining me on the phone is Julian Castro, he was the first 2020 presidential candidate to call the Governor -- for Governor Northam's resignation.

Thank you so much for joining us. He's apologized. He says, he's ready to put in an effort to heal the damaged he's caused. Does he deserve that chance?

JULIAN CASTRO (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE (via telephone): Well, I think that he can have that chance. What he does not necessarily deserve is to remain in a position of trust and authority, which is what the governor's office is. You know, what I said is that no matter whether somebody's a Republican or Democrat, that kind of behavior was racist and inexcusable.

And if we're going to ensure that these types of things don't continue to happen in our country, then we need to hold people accountable for their actions. And this happened when he was in medical school. He wasn't, you know, in high school or younger than that. He was an adult. It happened in 1984.

In 1984, Jessie Jackson was running for president of the United States. And so, 1984 was not, you know, 70 years ago. So I'm happy that at least he has apologized and that he recognizes that what he did was wrong.

And I do think, of course, that there's the opportunity to understand and accept his apology, but I also believe that that is separate and apart from him continuing in a position of trust and authority, which is the governor's office. So I hope that he does resign.

LEMON: Can I just get you to just -- little bit clearer about Democrats who think that Northam -- there are Democrats and there are also Republicans, there are people who think that he can survive this, that he should go on and continue to be governor. And they say, hey, look this was a long time ago, he was a young man. I wouldn't want my past, you know, being investigated like this. Where do we - where does it end?

CASTRO: Well, I mean, the only thing I can say is the way I think about these things, you know, I would distinguish between perhaps somebody who did something when they were 15 years old or 16 years old and somebody who was in their late 20s who was a grown adult. And also this happened in 1984. This wasn't 1954.

In addition to that, he never brought it up before. It may have been different if he had affirmatively come forward at some point in the last 35 years, and said, look, this happened, I messed up. You know, I'm a different person now. I see that this was wrong.

Instead, a journalist had to go find this in a library of that medical school. Otherwise, we wouldn't even know about it. And so those are the things that I look at in thinking through whether he can maintain the trust and the authority that goes with the governor's office.

LEMON: Thank you, sir. I appreciate your time and your perspective on this. It's very important. We appreciate it. Please come back.

CASTRO: Good to be with you.

LEMON: You as well. Let's bring back in our experts here, people who dealt with this, right? We have five folks of color here. Bakari, let me ask you, I think Julian Castro made a very good point about not addressing this in 35 years. And I know people who have -- who did some really awful, awful things to me and to people I know then in the '80s when I was in high school and in college.

They never said a word, never apologized. Can barely look you in the eye when they see you now. Does that -- what does that -- what does that mean? What does that mean for people like Northam and for people -- mostly for people like us who are looking for the larger culture to come to a realization about racism and historic racism and how to deal with it?

[22:35:07] BAKARI SELLERS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, FORMER HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES: You know, that's -- that is a tough question. I'm only 34 years old. I don't believe I have the audacity. I don't even know if I was born when he took this picture.

What I do know for a fact is to add a little bit more context to what Julian Castro just said, not only was Jessie Jackson running for president but also Doug Wider was running for lieutenant governor right there in the state of Virginia. And so there had to be some sense of awareness to that going on.

But to the larger question you just asked, the fact is I think that there are a lot of white people in this country who are still having trouble grasping a couple of things. One, you know, what exactly did he do wrong, it was 30 years ago, it should absolve him. It does not. It was despicable. It does not absolve him because of the length of time that has passed. That is first.

Second thing is, again, you cannot avoid the fact that this is somebody who was a medical professional. And when we talk about systems of oppression in this country and how it trickles down, you have to look at the fact that a medical professional who's treating people of color every single day, you have to understand and think about the biases they have when they're ignorant enough to believe that wearing blackface or a KKK garb is appropriate in an adult age where they're learning how to treat you.

And so those biases, they sipped all the way down. And so when you have issues of disparities in health care, this is a perfect example of why those biases exist.

LEMON: Yes.

SELLERS: And then the last thing, it's just something that -- it is disheartening to believe whether or not you're Democratic or Republican, I don't think Republicans really have a leg to stand on either because if you supported Cory Stuart in Virginia, you just need to shut the hell up as well. But the fact of the matter is, this man does not even know whether or not he was the one in blackface or the one in the KKK garb. I mean that's a fundamental problem.

(CROSSTALK)

TARA SETMAYER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I don't believe that.

LEMON: Yes.

SETMAYER: I don't believe. You really believe he doesn't know?

(CROSSTALK)

SELLERS: Well, I mean, he doesn't --

SETMAYER: He just don't want to admit it.

LEMON: OK.

SELLERS: He doesn't admit it. That's fine, but I mean, like --

SETMAYER: He doesn't want to admit it.

LEMON: Let me just say this.

SELLERS: They're both equally as horrible.

LEMON: I've got to go. I have a lot of show to get to. I wish we had more time.

SETMAYER: Can I just say something really quick about Virginia since I live there?

LEMON: I've got to go, I'm out of time. I'm out of time.

SETMAYER: OK.

LEMON: I just want to say that we need to have these -- these conversations are not hard for me. They're not hard for people like you who are up on the screen. They're hard for a lot of other people, but those -- you need to have those conversations.

If there is something in your past that you're concerned about, that you did or you're not sure about, talk to someone like us. And you're saying no, Tara.

SETMAYER: No. I'm saying, but Don, this is not so far in the past. Like in the state of Virginia, Cory Stuart came within one percentage point of beating Ed Gillespie to be the candidate for governor in 2017. There's still -- Cory Stuart became the Senate candidate in Virginia last year.

LEMON: You're right.

SETMAYER: So there's still a considerable amount of this kind of acceptance of this called racism.

LEMON: Your right, we are going over, but go on Mia.

SETMAYER: So that's the point, you know. It's real.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think what people want from Northam in this moment is to rise to the moment.

LEMON: Yes.

SETMAYER: Might, right.

HENDERSON: To not hide behind the statement --

APRIL RYAN, CNN POLITICAL ANALIST: And step down.

SETMAYER: Right.

HENDERSON: -- to hide behind a video where he is like I'm sorry, I'm a good person now, I'm sorry for the pain that I caused, is it stepping down or is it, you know, coming on Don's show. You know and taking questions from all of us. We know that these folks are watching CNN. They're looking at Twitter, they are noticing what the conversation is around this governor at this point, but there is Northam sort of hiding at this point from the public, from the press in this crisis moment.

LEMON: Yes.

HENDERSON: Also saying that he should still maintain power, right, without being -- without facing any questions.

LEMON: I've got to run. I'm going to say, look --

RYAN: Don, really fast.

LEMON: I can't, April, I'm sorry.

RYAN: Don.

LEMON: I wish it would do that, I wish they would do that Nia, OK, go, go on. Go ahead, April?

RYAN: Really fast. Really fast. Remember the governor of Alabama who was very racist and he on his deathbed decided to say I'm sorry?

LEMON: Wow.

RYAN: Well, he knew better that the time. Yes, Governor George Wallace. So he knew better at the time. And when it came time for him to possibly meet his maker, he said I'm sorry. This Virginia governor knew it was wrong when he was a teen, when he did the Coonman. He knew it was wrong when he was 25, when he did the black face or the clan op-ed, he know it. He knows it's wrong now especially as Virginia is grappling with issues of race following Charlottesville.

SETMAYER: It's not courageous when get caught.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: Yes. Nia, I wish you would -- I wish you would do what you said.

HENDERSON: Yes, we'll see.

LEMON: Nobody, who does that?

HENDERSON: Yes.

LEMON: We can't really -- let's be honest, we can't even get our own to come on our show when they face controversy because if they go on entertainment shows and they face people who don't look like us because they know the questions aren't going to be as hard. So, to get him -- where's the lie, Bakari? Where is the lie?

(CROSSTALK)

SELLERS: You're not telling that lie. I'm just trying to make sure I'd check cash (ph) when we go to commercial.

LEMON: It could be all later. We'll be right back.

[22:40:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: New Jersey Senator Cory Booker joining a crowded and diverse field of Democrats vying for the White House. Both Booker and Senator Kamala Harris are embracing race in a way that hasn't been seen before in a presidential campaign.

Let's bring in now Errol Louis, Nina Turner, Tiffany Cross. Good evening to all of you.

ERROL LOUIS, POLITICAL ANCHOR, SPECTRUM NEWS: Good evening.

LEMON: So, I cannot let this go by.

NINA TURNER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Good evening.

LEMON: I want to talk about -- we'll get to all of that, but I want to get your response. What do you think of this news about Governor Northam? First to you, Tiffany.

TIFFANY CROSS, MANAGING EDITOR, THE BEAT D.C.: Well, you know, I was watching the last panel. I was telling you, I was screaming in the make-up room because this is nothing new. And I think there's this false narrative where people think that this kind of systems of white supremacy only exist on the right.

And I think for those of us who have been on the left side of things and have been working in progressive movements and who have worked with and in the Democratic Party, this is something that permeates all across areas of politics and society. This doesn't -- it's not exclusive to any party or any side of the aisle.

So I like you, Don, at the top of this show, you said this is not surprising. Of course, this is not surprising. This is not anything, you know, that made us clutch our prowls(ph) or you know, think that something like this couldn't happen in Virginia of all places.

[22:45:07] I do think, though, it's really interesting that if Governor Northam steps down, that you have a state like Virginia who's obviously a very important state in the battleground -- battleground state, that you'll have a state like Virginia that will be the only state in the country that will have two African-American governors serve, and I do find that interesting, but this 100 percent not a surprise at all.

LEMON: All right. Nina, what do you think?

TURNER: Damn shame, Don. And I'm going to try and keep this as PG as I can, but I'm about to jump out of my skin. Let me tell you something. This same governor just last year really had to go back to 1984, just 2018 and Democrats didn't say a mumbling word when there was a labor union there, La Una, that told this governor that if you don't take Justin Fairfax's picture off your literature that we're paying for, we're not going to support you. Go check the record on that. That just happened in 2018. So, it should be of no surprise that this governor has done this.

And furthermore, back to what my sister said, you know what? This is outrageous in every single way, and it does happen on the left a whole lot. And it reminds me of some words that the Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. had for moderate whites in the letter to the Birmingham jail. He was over it, I'm over it. It was the same thing that Minister Malcom X warned us about.

Don, there's two books, I know you've been doing bedtime stories for these folks on the show. I recommend that they read a book called "White Rage" by Carol Anderson and "How To Be Less Stupid About Race" by Dr. Crystal Fleming.

Otherwise, this governor has to go. He needs to go really quickly, and the left as my sister just said, they need to get a clue, because racism is in the DNA of this country and we are sick and tired of it.

And just one more point, Don. This governor needs to apologize to black folks first. All that okie-dokie he was just talking is BS. He needs to straight up apologize to black folks who were dehumanized, ridiculed. This country was built on the back, the blood, the sweat and the tears of black folks. And he go, no, apologize to black people first.

LEMON: Errol? LOUIS: Interesting point. I agree with Senator Turner. I mean, if he is not in a black church on Sunday begging for forgiveness, he may at that point have thrown in the towel.

TURNER: Come on.

LOUIS: The reality is I can't see how this administration continues. I mean, this is not like being a judge where you're sort of removed, you've got guards, the public doesn't have real access to you. You cannot govern a state like Virginia from hiding.

So, he is going to get an earful. He is going to see that the base of his Democratic Party is absolutely outraged. He is going to -- probably I think through the equivalent politically this weekend of getting ones affairs in order when you get a diagnosis of terminal cancer.

And come Monday morning, I'd be very surprised if he's got anything left of an administration. We'll hold out hope perhaps folks will come and surround him and say all is forgiven, but on everything we've seen so far -- look, 1984 is the year I graduated from college, and so he is older than me.

I look at this and say there's just no way -- there's just no way you can govern a state with that kind of raw bigotry and ugliness that is in your past, if you don't have a really, really good explanation, which up until now we have not heard.

LEMON: I'm getting word, and it's not confirmed -- I just want to double check it that their -- that the governor may have called a press conference until tomorrow morning.

The other thing that I'm hearing, I said we are going to talk about Senator Cory Booker throwing his hat into the ring to run for president, guys. He is calling on him to step down. Now, we'll talk about that right after the break.

[22:50:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: OK, we're back now here with Errol, Nina, and Tiffany. Guys, I have a short time. Our source put out, you know, Cory Booker threw his hat into the ring, but now we are talking about this. He just tweeted out, he says, "These images arose centuries of anger, anguish and racist violence and they even eroded confidence in Governor Northam's ability to lead. We should expect more from our elected officials. He should resign."

Tiffany, he is not -- he's making it very clear there, he's not leaving it open.

CROSS: Yes, I think anybody who's in the 2020 race on the left needs, you know, would call for him to resign. Again, this is not something new. This is something that is been, you know, very consistent I think on both sides of the aisle. And we see systems of white supremacy. If you've ever worked in labor, Nina, just talked about the La Una (ph) issue which we wrote about last year. I remember it well, I mean, thank you for bringing up that point.

TURNER: Thank you, Tiffany.

CROSS: Yes. You know, I think this is something that people will have to reckon with. The demographics of the country are changing. A lot of people feel very uncomfortable with this. And we even see this -- there seems to be this false narrative of, you know, like all Republicans are having trouble with suburban white women, but that is not necessarily true. Forty nine percent of them still remain very loyal to this party.

And so, when you think about people who are quote-unquote, "allies," and, you know, people who, you know, are standing on the same side of the aisle as you, but some of these people share this ideology with Ralph Northam. So, I think these are the uncomfortable conversations that we'll have to have as we go into a different electorate in 2020.

LEMON: OK. Yes. So Cory Booker is saying resigning -- resign. Do you agree?

LOUIS: Yes. Well, look, he is in active leadership. You stand up and say, you want to be the leader of the free world, you want to be the leader of the Democratic Party., you want to be the president of United States, you don't get to pass on an issue like this, and he's making the kind of decision that I think others are going to make.

Look, this is an example among other things. If you strip away the hot button of race, this is somebody who is found to have been disrespectful and to have denigrated an important part of the base coalition of his party. He doesn't have enough friends out there, close friends, personal friends, people in the favor bank as they would call it, who would step forward and say, I vouch for this man, we can't just get rid of him.

He didn't have that. He has no protection. I'd be expecting a resignation notice perhaps that's the point of tomorrow's press conference if he holds one.

LEMON: Yes. We're not sure yet. I'm not sure about that.

[22:55:00] LOUIS: But it's -- look, again he's got probably 48 hours, 72 hours to try and get his ducks in a row. It's not looking good right now.

LEMON: So, I'm sure it wasn't lost on you, Nina, that, you know, as we are talking about this as this is happening, you've got Julian Castro, you've got Kamala Harris and you've got Cory Booker, all diverse camps, it's people who are running for president of the United States right now, and they are diverse people even with this.

TURNER: Yes. Bring on more of that, Don. We need more people and not just diversity in terms of phenotype of diversity of ideas and positions and experiences. And you know, we should not be shocked in this country.

I mean, Don, let us not forget that during lynching, some white folks posed while black folks were swinging from trees. So we should not be surprised by this. The surprise should be that we're surprised. We need real truth and reconciliation in this country. As my sister Tiffany said and brother, Errol, breaking it, we all breaking it down, Don, and thank you, because you always go hand on this kind of stuff.

We need this kind of conversation, but white folks in America need to wake up, and we need real allies. Not just people just talking, but people who put real systems in place and understand the systemic racism, hatred, bigotry, anti-blackness is real in this country. It's not a figment of our imaginations. It's absolutely real.

And I hope all of these presidential candidates are not just going to talk this talk because it's easy, because Governor Northam made it very easy, because either he's the black face or he's the KKK uniform, that's easy. But are we going to do the heavy stuff, to reform the criminal justice system, we're going to reform a system where law enforcement hits -- hurts black bodies? That is the kind of reform, educating our children, making sure we've got clean water? Hello, Flint, Cleveland. We got to do some real stuff in this country.

LEMON: Thank you all. I appreciate your time. Unfortunately, we are out of time. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)