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Don Lemon Tonight

GOP Senators Are Pushing President Trump To Delay Imposing Tariffs; Why Can't President Trump Tell The Truth?; Climate Crisis; First African-American Secretary Of The Smithsonian Speaks Out; The 2020 Presidential Race; Kamau Bell On Living While Black. Aired 11p- 12a ET

Aired June 05, 2019 - 23:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[23:00:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DON LEMON, CNN HOST: So this is CNN TONIGHT. I'm Don Lemon. There is a growing tariff for -- within the Republican Party. The GOP senators pushing President Trump to delay imposing tariffs on Mexican goods, which he is threatening to do beginning Monday. They wanted to meet with them to discuss the issue. But the president isn't budging, at least says up tonight he's not.

Mexican officials have been talking and they still say that they will continue talks tomorrow. President insisting if no agreement is reached, the tariffs will kick in. And now, a new report is predicting that 400,000 American jobs could be lost over the tariffs. Economists also saying consumers will pay more for goods from Mexico. But President Trump continues to mislead people to ignore the facts.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The people are going to have to worry about paying the tax because the companies are going to move back in to the United States. There won't be any tariff.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Here is what we're doing for you tonight. We are going to take a look at the big picture. Why can't President Trump just tell the truth? We're going to talk about tariffs and other things.

Let's bring in Michael D'Antonio. Michael is the author of "The Truth About Trump." Also, Amanda Carpenter. Amanda is the author of "Gaslighting America: Why We Love It When President Trump Lies to Us." And Max Boot, author of "The Corrosion of Conservatism: Why I Left the Right."

Good evening, one and all. Michael, I'm going to start with you, right here on the studio. As I said, the president is misleading people on tariffs. He says that the other country will pay. That is not true. In an interview with Piers Morgan, he repeated the lie that the U.S. has the cleanest air and water. I'm not sure it has been -- Michigan. That is not true. So we know he lies but does he -- does he know that he is lying? MICHAEL D'ANTONIO, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: That's a really good question. I'm not sure that he knows what the truth is on two levels. I'm not sure he knows how to tell the truth. I think he is constitutionally opposed to telling the truth in a loyal way. I also think he doesn't know the facts.

Another example is when he was talking about climate change. First off all, he said America has the cleanest climate. Well, the climate isn't clean or dirty. The environment can be clean or dirty but not the climate.

He also ignores that fact that our emissions have gone up three present in the last year. They were going down year after year under President Obama but they've gone up in the last year. United States per capita pollutes more than any other country and is three times greater than China.

So, he is wholly ignorant of the facts, but he is also not inclined to tell the truth if it is not convenient.

LEMON: Was it frustrating to you watching, especially the question about -- the answer about climate change and weather? Wait a minute, what is it?

D'ANTONIO: It's crazy.

LEMON: He has no idea what he is talking about.

D'ANTONIO: He also lied about why he said transgender troops can't serve.

LEMON: Yeah.,

D'ANTONIO: He said because troops can't take drugs. It's absurd. Of course, they do.

LEMON: I want to read this, Max. This is a tweet. This is from Daniel Dale. Daniel Dale joined just during the fact-checking beat here at CNN. He wrote this. He said, "Some things Trump was wrong about in the last six weeks: the weather, health care, Harley, taxes, crowds, North Korea, NATO, Puerto Rico, tariffs, media, Mueller, NAFTA, the wall, one of his development disputes, Clinton, bald eagles, wind power, asylum, Merry Christmas."

(LAUGHTER)

LEMON: If you lie about anything, you'll lie about everything. That's what I say. What do you think?

MAX BOOT, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: I think that's exactly right, Don. I think what makes this really alarming is the fact that we have gotten used to his B.S. I mean, this is not as shocking as it used to be. And thanks heaven for Dale, thanks heaven for The Washington Post fact checker, thank heaven for a few other people who are trying to keep the facts straight and to call Trump out. But, you know, this is like a full-time job, policing all of his falsehoods. You know, this is really at the heart of his power. This is how he speaks to his supporters. He denies realities, they are inconvenient to him. He basically gives his supporters permission to believe in this fantasy world that he spins around them, so they don't have to grapple with the actual facts.

And off course anything that he considers inconvenient for his world view is written off as "fake news," which is a term of art that Trump uses to name actual real facts that are inconvenient to me and that I will therefore call fake news. And it's bad enough that Trump lives in this alternative reality.

But what's really alarming, Don, is that he has dragged about 40 percent of the American public along with him. I mean, there is a recent poll that showed something like, you know, 35 or 38 percent of the American public thought that Donald Trump was honest and trustworthy.

[23:05:05] Donald Trump, who we know has committed at least 10,000 falsehoods that have been documented since he became president, and yet over a third of the population thinks that he is honest and trustworthy. So they are delusional as he is. So it is not just Trump. It is his supporters. This is very alarming, when you have a huge section of the country that will not grapple with reality, refuses to admit what the reality is.

LEMON: Yeah. Amanda, this is what your book is about. You call it "Gaslighting." You know, I've got to ask you. Seriously, maybe you can explain this to me, because the president tells Piers Morgan that he believes climate change "goes both ways." I don't know what that means but even when experts tell him the facts, he seems impervious to learning. Do you know what it means? Goes both -- what does that mean?

AMANDA CARPENTER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I actually think this is improvement on his part because he's not calling it a Chinese hoax anymore and I think he realizes that this will be a general election issue. But back to the idea of why does Trump lie, I don't think that even gets into the equation for him.

It's about what he wants people to believe. He gets so caught up in the sell. The facts just almost don't matter. And this is what's so difficult for everyone else to grapple with, right? How many times we have to prove that he lies? A lot of people in the news, a lot of people in the political opposition think if we can prove that he lies, the people will turn away from him.

Well, no, because he paints a really nice, believable picture of how the world will be better with tariffs and how we'll have the cleanest air. And so I think what Democrats are going to have to do in the election, you can't just keep proving he's a liar.

That's not effective because the American people want to be told a nice story. So paint a better picture. You don't have to do it with lies. He does it the bad way. But you do have to compete with him at capturing the public imagination in a positive way. LEMON: Yeah. That is what his opponents will have to do, figure out a

way that they can, as she says, point out his lies. But as journalists, we have to point out lies, other people' lies right and left.

Michael, I got to tell you, we know the president exaggerates. You know I often quote from his book, "The Art of the Deal." Let's quote one more time, at least for now.

This is the quote. "People may not always think big themselves," he writes. "But they can still get very excited by those who do. That's why a little hyperbole never hurts. People want to believe that something is the biggest and the greatest and the most spectacular," he says. "I call it truthful hyperbole."

(LAUGHTER)

LEMON: It's an innocent form of exaggeration and a very effective form of promotion. So as Amanda said, maybe the line just doesn't really factor into it and it's more about self-aggrandizement?

D'ANTONIO: Well, it started out as self-aggrandizement. I think the tragedy, as Max pointed out, is so many people don't realize he's lying so much of the time because we're accustomed to our president having character, having morality being truthful --

LEMON: But even that truthful changed (ph) the definition of hyperbole.

D'ANTONIO: Of course.

LEMON: Truthful hyperbole and saying that in innocent form.

D'ANTONIO: It never --

LEMON: Go on, yeah.

D'ANTONIO: No, and it wasn't innocent when he was selling people real estate by claiming that more units sold -- building than had sold. There were legal charges considered in that case. He has defrauded people at Trump University. He lies. He does it in a hurtful way. Now, he's hurting the whole world.

LEMON: How often have we heard things like this?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I know more about ISIS than the generals do. Believe me.

Nobody knows more about environmental impact statements than me.

I am the smartest person. My uncle was a great professor at MIT for 40 years. But I'm smarter. I'm smarter than anybody.

There's nobody that understands the horror of nuclear better than me.

Nobody knows the politicians better than I do. Believe me.

I understand the tax laws better than almost anyone.

One of the great memories of all time.

Nobody knows more about trade than me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Does he honestly believe that he's the expert at everything? Is it a figure of speech? Does he believe if I say it, then everyone will believe it's true?

D'ANTONIO: If I say it over and over again, if I give a great pitch, if I use gestures, I've got one of the greatest brains off all time, I'm the greatest this, I'm the biggest that, none of these things can be proved. You know, if I say I'm great, who is to define it differently than me? So it's salesmanship. It is caveat emptor. But should the country have to beware what the president is selling?

[23:10:00] He is selling us. We should beware.

LEMON: What does this do to our democracy?

BOOT: Don, I think the message that he's actually sending is the opposite of what he's saying. I mean, I think the actual message when you keep saying I'm an extremely stable genius, I'm the world's greatest expert --

(LAUGHTER)

BOOT: -- on X, Y and Z, I mean, the message you're actually sending is I am very insecure, I am very worried about whether I have any kind of intellectual prowess, I am hurt that intelligent people think I am a dope and therefore I have to keep insisting to myself above all that I'm actually a genius and trying to convince myself, but I'm not actually convinced.

I think that is the actual message that he is sending. His constant (INAUDIBLE) I think ultimately backfires on him to some extent because right now you see he is trying to scare Mexico in posing some kind of draconian immigration restriction, threatening that he is going to impose these massive tariffs on Mexico.

But if you're the Mexican government, how do you take him seriously when he has made so many threats in the past including a couple months ago threatening to close the border with Mexico and he hasn't carried it out? I mean, he bluffs so much. He lies so much. It hurts his own ability to be an effective negotiator.

LEMON: Yeah. Well --

CARPENTER: Part of this exaggeration is a way of baiting the political opposition. He makes grand statement like that. He almost wants someone to challenge him so that he can get above them (ph) and say that's not true but about what me and you? It becomes a name- calling fight, which he enjoys.

LEMON: And then he can put it out in the public, in the arena, and people are talking about it and so on. That is why the book is "Why We Love it When Trump Lies to Us."

(LAUGHTER)

LEMON: This should be why some people do. Thank you. Thank you, everyone, I appreciate it.

Prince Charles spent 90 minutes on a one-on-one conversation trying to convince President Trump of the facts on climate change, and he got nowhere. Why won't the president admit the truth?

[23:15:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: After an hour and a half meeting in which Prince Charles tried to convince President Trump of the pressing danger of climate change, the president insisted that U.S. was clean while blaming other nations for the crisis. When asked if he believed the science behind climate change, here is how Trump responded.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I believe that there is a change in weather, and I think it changes both ways. It used to be called global warming. That wasn't working. Then it was called climate change. Now, it is actually called extreme weather.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: OK. Joining me now is Nick Kristof. Nick, good evening. Thank you so much. Lots to discuss here. So, climate change, weather --

NICHOLAS KRISTOF, COLUMNIST, THE NEW YORK TIMES: President Trump is mixing up an awful lot of things here. I mean, he says it goes both ways. One of his common points has been whenever there is a warm day in January or a chilly day in June, there's nothing to this. And he said that global warming has been disavowed. You know, in fact, the five hottest years on record are the last five years. That's a part of climate change.

LEMON: I just want to get you on that because he is confusing climate change and weather and pollution somehow?

KRISTOF: He was saying that we have the cleanest climate, and he was talking about pollution in countries like India and China. You know, look, there is one problem, which is air pollution and water pollution. And then there is another problem which is carbon emissions which whatever country produces them --

(CROSSTALK)

KRISTOF: Exactly. They're different issues and they both have to be addressed.

LEMON: Let's talk about the meeting between Prince Charles, the future king of England. It is scheduled for 15 minutes. The president and the future king, it was scheduled for 15 minutes. It ran over by more than an hour. If Prince Charles can't convince the president that the planet is in danger, then can anyone?

KRISTOF: I don't think so. I mean, look, Prince Charles, this is an issue, the environment is an issue that Prince Charles has been deeply dedicated to for half a century, since he was a young adult. He cares deeply about it. He cares deeply about climate change. I think that's why he corralled the president into this meeting and kept going at him.

But President Trump is like -- there are many issues to President Trump. You don't get a sense that he's deeply committed on. Abortion, he has been on both sides of the issue. He doesn't seem to understand pro-choice verses pro-life.

But climate change is one that he has a long history of skepticism. He had more than 100 tweets saying that this is all a fake. This is -- in one case, he argued it was a Chinese hoax. I think he is kind of impervious to data and science on the issue of climate change.

LEMON: Here is what is interesting to me, because on this trip, right, he's now in Ireland, he is staying at one of his golf properties. It's the one the Trump Organization wants to build a seawall at to offset the rising Atlantic Ocean.

We know that because the Trump Organization itself cited climate change in its permit application for the seawall. That is according to Politico. Do you think the president is truly ignorant of the consequences of climate change or it is politically expedient for him to pretend otherwise?

KRISTOF: I think he has a very fixed idea about some things and other facts and realities just don't enter through that impermeable barrier. And so you get all kinds of inconsistencies. And I think what happened there is you think that somebody who has real estate in Florida would also appreciate the dangers of climate change and sea rise.

But he likewise seems in any general discussion of climate change to be completely oblivious to what has been, you know, not only a scientific, but one that I think most people around the world are increasingly aware of.

LEMON: Is this why may people are trying to sell their properties?

(LAUGHTER)

KRISTOF: You look at these long-term maps and what happened to Florida, and you might want to put up a sign.

[23:20:02] LEMON: Yeah. Listen, I think it is fascinating. I also think we didn't get a chance to get to it. I really apologize. I think we are not going to have you back. But you wrote a fascinating article for The New York Times. This is "Food Doesn't Grow Here Anymore. That's Why I Would Send My Son North." If you can just quickly explain to us what this is about.

KRISTOF: I was just in Guatemala. I was talking to Guatemalans about why they migrate to the U.S. And one of the points they emphasized over and over is their desperation, partly as a consequence of climate change. Drought and extreme weather means they can't grow food anymore.

LEMON: Wow!

KRISTOF: They're malnourished. They are in desperation, send their kids north. And that is one of the things we have to address.

LEMON: "Food Doesn't Grow Here Anymore. That's Why I Would Send My Son North," Nicholas Kristof's latest column in The New York Times. Thank you. It is fascinating. Thank you so much.

KRISTOF: Thank you, Don.

LEMON: We will see you next time. The Smithsonian has a new man at the helm and he is the first African-American to lead the institution. He is going to join me next, and he has got a lot to say about the real meaning behind confederate statues around the country.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: The Smithsonian Institution announcing the appointment of its new secretary.

[23:25:01] He is Lonnie Bunch III, the first African-American to lead the renowned institution. Bunch is a founding director of the National Museum of African-American History and Culture, which is part of the Smithsonian and which he has led since 2005. His appointment to head up the Smithsonian is crucial in this era of rising white nationalism in America. Bunch is a historian who studies the roots of white supremacy.

Last year, he was a key part of symposium held at the Smithsonian called "Mascots, Myths, Monuments and Memory," which among other things examine the creation of confederate monuments in America in the late 19th and early 20th centuries.

Bunch says those monuments are a testament to racism and white supremacy, symbols to make African-Americans feel less human. The symposium was held less than a year after white nationalists ascended on Charlottesville, Virginia carrying torches designed to instil fear and chanting "Jews will not replace us." Heather Heyer was murdered in the violence that followed. And as we know, President Trump is dismissive of white nationalism.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): Do you see today white nationalism as a rising threat around the world?

TRUMP: I don't really. I think it's a small group of people that have very, very serious problems, I guess. (END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: But here's what the FBI is reporting. Hate crimes are on the rise in America. And the Anti-Defamation League says that white supremacists accounted for 78 percent of domestic extremist-related killings in 2018, up from 59 percent in 2017. So there's a lot to talk about with the new secretary of the Smithsonian, Mr. Lonnie Bunch. Thank you, sir, for joining us, and congratulations, by the way.

LONNIE BUNCH III, SECRETARY, SMITHSONIAN INSTITUTION: Thank you. I really appreciate you let me be with you.

LEMON: What does it mean to you to be at the helm of the Smithsonian Institution at this time in our nation's history?

BUNCH: It really means that first of all that we've really begun to kick down certain doors. That we've allowed people like me to aspire to leadership at the Smithsonian. And what I'm really moved by are the number of people who come to me who say that as African-American, we now believe that we can aspire to other positions, that we can open many doors.

So for me, this is really an opportunity to say that America is changing. It's not where it needs to be. But my position allows me to help America realize that it's going to be a place different today than it was 50 years ago.

LEMON: As the first African-American, let me ask you along those lines, do you feel a duty to confront the hate that we are seeing or to educate people about racism and that it still exists?

BUNCH: I think it's important as a historian. As John O. Franklin (ph) used to always say to me, your job is to tell the unvarnished truth so people will be changed by history. It is my job to help Americans understand themselves. Understand what factors have shaped them and basically understand that until they confront their tortured racial past, they can't find a present or future where we have reconciliation and healing.

LEMON: You know, Lonnie, you have studied white supremacy. You've talked about it. You take it head on. How can the Smithsonian change the conversation that we're having about race in the country?

BUNCH: The Smithsonian is a wondrous place that has so many different museums and what we can do is to really help the public realize that we are a place that is not about nostalgia but about innovation and insight and understanding.

And the hope is that we can, as a trusted place, bring people together from different points of view to debate the importance of history and to help people understand how central to understanding America white supremacy always has been.

LEMON: You have to educate them about the history especially when it comes to these confederate monuments. There has been a lot of debate and anger, even violence surrounding confederate statues and what we should do with them. I want to be clear about this because we're talking about the facts and history here. These monuments were put up well after the civil war. They were about white supremacy. Talk about that.

BUNCH: These monuments were really about an uncivil peace, not a civil war. They were really done in a way in the late 19th century when Jim Crow is becoming a legal fact of life. These monuments were there to remind African-Americans that they weren't equal. And then they really were built again in the 1940s and 50s as a direct result of the Civil Rights Movement.

So these monuments that supposedly are about confederacy are really about preserving white supremacy, reinforcing racist ideals, and really trying to win a piece when we they lost the war.

LEMON: Do you think people get that? I mean, the folks out there who are fighting for the statues to stay in place and are saying well, you're taking away from our history by taking down these statues. Do you think they understand the history of these statues and exactly when they were erected and why?

[23:30:03] BUNCH: I think not. I think one of the challenges of a place like the Smithsonian is to help people understand their history. I think that there will always be people who will see these monuments as sort of ways to celebrate the lost cause, the confederacy, but I think it's our job to help people understand exactly what they were and then to encourage the discussions and debates around them.

LEMON: Yeah. Some people want them destroyed. Others are fighting to keep them. I just want to play what you said about this last year. Here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BUNCH (on camera): I kind of like the notion of pruning, that periodically you just got to prune, and that I do not ever want to see all these monuments taken down because they're too important in terms of historical lessons. But I also think that if you can prune, that means you can add other stories. But also I think the big challenge is to figure out how to do you contextualize monuments?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: So listen, I've been saying don't destroy them. Put them in museums like the Smithsonian. And wouldn't that put them in context because then you explain them, no?

BUNCH: I think that's absolutely the most important thing to do, is that if you put them in museums or even create parks, you know, in Budapest, they've put a lot of the Soviet statues together in Hungary and they contextualize. The people understand that you're not destroying them because they are part of the history. They have shaped the way you are.

But now, by contextualizing whether in museums or in parks, people understand what the limits of memorials are and help people understand the real history, not a slanted history.

LEMON: You know, when people say when American history is taught, it's often white American history and not black American history. Is that the role of the Smithsonian to correct that?

BUNCH: It is important for the Smithsonian to be conversive with the best scholarship and the best scholarship says to understand American history. To understand America, you got to see it through the lens of race. So for me, what I try to do is not tell sort of a separate story but to say that the African-American experience is the quintessential American story.

If you want to understand this country, if you want to understand our notions of spirituality, optimism and resiliency, we better look at the story. So this is a story that shapes us all regardless of who we are.

LEMON: Lonnie Bunch, it is always a pleasure. Again, congratulations.

BUNCH: Thank you so much. I really appreciate it.

LEMON: According to CNN's latest poll, the majority of Americans think the president will win the 2020 election. We are going to break down those numbers. That's next.

[23:35:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: A new CNN poll shows the majority of Americans say they think President Trump will likely win re-election. So let's discuss now. Matt Barreto is here, Alexandra Rojas, and Matt Lewis. Hello to all of you. I'm sure you all want to discuss this this evening. I'm glad to have

you on.

Matt, I'm going to start with you. Here is what the latest CNN poll shows. Fifty-four percent of Americans say that they believe Trump will be re-elected, 41 percent think that he will be defeated. He is polling well on the economy, not much else though. You surprised by these numbers, Matt Lewis?

MATT LEWIS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: No, not really. I think there are couple reasons. One is that four out of the last five presidents have been two termers. So I think there's something of a recency bias. It's historically an aberration but we're used to two-term presidents and so that's part of it.

I also think the fact that Trump pulled off this almost stunning victory last time in the sense that we were -- many of us were surprised that he did it, we're kind of hedging our bets the other way and I think that's maybe not just in the media but also in the public. They doubted him before. Now people are maybe overestimating his potential to be re-elected.

LEMON: Matt Barreto, you now have to say last names so that you guys will know who I am talking about. The poll shows that voters do not like Trump's behavior. They cite lying. They cite racism, incompetence, not acting presidential. Those are all high negatives. But the economy is strong. If it stays the way that it is now, would that be enough to win him a second term?

MATT BARRETO, CO-FOUNDER AND MANAGING DIRECTOR, LATINO DIRECTIONS: You would think so if you would actually talk about the economy. But Trump's problem is that he's talking about all these negatives, the things that you just mentioned. He is talking about the border wall. He is making offensive statements. He is causing problems while he is overseas.

So, I think he has a lot of trouble focusing on the issue that can possibly help him which is the economy. So while people might believe that he could win, I agree with Matt Lewis that it is because of this miracle win he had last time, I think those negatives are going to continue and that's going to cause him problems down the stretch. He doesn't have the ability to focus on the issues that can actually help him.

LEMON: Let me ask you a follow-up question real quick, because your expertise is Hispanic voters, correct? Do Trump or any candidate's behavior negatives, historically have a -- his behavior negatives, do they historically have a similar impact with Latinos?

BARRETO: Yeah, definitely. I think you are seeing that already play out in 2018. I mean, look at how he closed the 2018 midterms on behalf of the Republican Party, making this really insane plea about Central Americans invading the United States, these migrants who are seeking asylum.

We saw a huge Latino vote in 2018, record numbers in terms of turnout and an increase in support for Democratic candidates in 2018 as compared to the previous midterms.

[23:40:00] So, those negatives that he was driving in 2018, that divisive rhetoric that he had, really did turn out the Latino vote against him and that was part of the big blue wave in those 40 seats that flipped in the House.

LEMON: All right. Alexandra, let's talk about another poll. This is another new poll. This one is from Quinnipiac University. It spells trouble for the president in really an unlikely place and that's Texas. It shows Joe Biden beating Trump, 48 percent to 44 percent now. Jimmy Carter is the last Democratic candidate to carry Texas. Do you think this poll is realistic?

ALEXANDRA ROJAS, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, JUSTICE DEMOCRATS: Well, I think that all of these polls -- you know, yes and also no. I think that what we're also seeing with the poll that you cited earlier around Trump being -- you know, people seeing that -- thinking that Trump is going to win again in 2020, I think that right now we saw in 2016 and some surprise victories in 2018 where pundits and voters, I think, are trying to figure out what the political landscape looks like right now.

We had some really, really shocking and surprising upsets in 2016, and I think people are overcompensating and overcorrecting where we saw a lot of people, you know, we all doubted that Trump was actually going to win. So I think at least particularly with polls in general right now, they don't always represent, I think, where voters are and voters are --

LEMON: All of you, Matt, I think maybe you're covering it with me, with Beto O'Rourke and Ted Cruz, right? They thought that Beto may have had a slight edge and that Ted Cruz actually ended up carrying Texas at the end of the day, because Republicans usually come home and they vote for Republicans.

Matt lewis, another question for you. So Trump has governed largely by appealing to minority voters, his base. A minority of voters, which is his base. Is that going to be enough for 2020?

LEWIS: Well, the answerer is we don't know. I can tell you, it's not going to be enough in the long run. And whether -- I don't know if Donald Trump's going to lose Texas this time. I think he's actually in real danger, believe it or not.

LEMON: You do?

LEWIS: Oh, yeah. He could totally lose. This isn't the only poll. This is a trend of a lot of polls that show it is Biden, Beto, and I think Bernie even at one point beating Trump in Texas. I think it's not just immigration. It's also because Texas is actually attracted a lot of suburbanite voters from places like California bringing businesses. So, it's a real trend --

LEMON: And they don't like the behavior of the president.

LEWIS: They don't.

LEMON: That really turns them off, yeah.

LEWIS: I think it does. So, I think he's in trouble. So there is a short term of question. Yes, Trump could win. It would have to be basically a similar model as last time. I think he won three states in the Rust Belt by like 80,000 votes.

Trump could do that again theoretically. I think the long-term forecast for Republicans is much more dire in Texas, whether it goes this time or not is in real jeopardy. So is Arizona, by the way.

LEMON: Matt Barreto, even while the president continues to attack immigrants, more specifically, Hispanics, he still holds a fair amount of Latino support. You caution the Hispanic vote is not one big group. So talk to me about that. Why do you say that?

BARRETO: I think first thing is that we don't have a strong read in some of these national polls on exactly where the Latino vote is because they tend to poll only in English. They don't have a lot of data from high- density Hispanic communities.

I think there is a split. It's probably closer to about 20 percent support who -- who continue to support Trump at this point. But there are a lot of issues that are important. We saw in 2018 that the single most important issue to Latino voters was access to health care. It was the cost of health care.

And again, that was an issue where the Republicans were talking about repealing Obamacare but not replacing it with anything and not expanding Medicare. And so you can't only talk about one issue. You need to meet Latino voters just like all voters where their pocketbook is, where their families are.

If Democratic candidates do that, I think they have a chance to further increase the gains they had in 2018. I agree with Matt Lewis. I think that Texas could be in play in 2020. It's a very real chance. It went from Romney carrying it by 16, he carried it by 16. Trump by nine, and then Cruz only by 2.6.

LEMON: Wow.

BARRETO: So it's trending in that direction and there is a lot of Democratic enthusiasm in Texas right now.

LEMON: Alexandra, let us continue to talk about the Democrats here because while the majority of Latino voters tend to vote Democratic, are you concerned about Democrats taking the votes for granted?

ROJAS: Yeah, I mean, I think that no group is the same and just like my colleagues pointed out, I think it's really important to recognize that polls aren't always as accurate as I think represents our community there.

But I think that there is just really Democrats can't take the Latino vote for granted. They can't take any votes for granted in that just because going up against a racist president doesn't mean that you're necessarily going to get the votes of people of color.

[23:45:04] And I think that we have to remember at least back in 2010, there was a major reason for the Dream Act not passing back then. It wasn't just because of Republican opposition. It was also because Democratic senators didn't vote in it as well.

So just to reiterate the point that it's not just something that we have to assume that Donald Trump being himself is going to make the Latino community vote for Democrats.

We are going to have to do an aggressive direct voter outreach, press outreach to those networks and really, really communicate with every constituency, but we definitely can't take it for granted just because we know that Donald Trump is a racist and expect people of color to vote for us because of that.

LEMON: Alexandra, Matt Barreto, and the other Matt --

(LAUGHTER)

LEMON: Thank you so much. Thanks, Matt Lewis. Thanks, everyone. I appreciate it. Kamau Bell is next. We are going to talk living while black.

[23:50:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK) LEMON: An ex-employee at a Mississippi campground charged with threatening exhibition of a weapon after pulling a gun on a black couple who were just trying to have a picnic last week, telling them they didn't have a reservation to be there. She was fired.

But the whole thing is all too familiar to people of color and it is an issue Kamau Bell explores in the new episode of "United Shades of America: Living While Black." That is why I said we are going to talk about living while black right before the break.

Kamau, thank you so much. So we are going to talk about stories like this over and over again on this show, black people getting coffee, barbecuing at the park, trying to use the neighborhood pool, even kids selling water who are confronted by white people, calling the cops on them for no real reason. And now, most recently, we've heard this couple at the campsite that I just mentioned. What gives here?

W. KAMAU BELL, CNN HOST: First of all, I'm glad I can finally come on your show and talk about racism in America, Don. We're doing the right thing.

(LAUGHTER)

BELL: So, what gives here is that these are the kind of stories that black people have shared since the beginning of this country, times they have treated unfairly because of our skin color. And for the most part, white people, even black people who considered themselves part of the team or allies wouldn't necessarily believe us.

Well, now, we are in this era of cell phones and not only see these things happen all the time, but the problem is that they don't seem to be initiating change. We talked about that in this week's episode of "United Shades of America," like, how come white women aren't seeing themselves in all these videos and going, I should probably react in a different way when a cell phone comes out and I'm talking to a black person.

LEMON: Yeah. You actually witnessed one of these living while black incidents. It unfolded right in front of you while you were filming this episode of "United Shades." What happened?

BELL: Yeah, we were going to go meet with historian Reggie Jackson (ph). This episode takes place in Milwaukee, which is regularly called the most segregated city in America. We are going to meet with Reggie Jackson (ph) at a park. As we were going to meet him, it was around Halloween, there were black people who are handing out candy on Halloween.

Why would black people want to do that? A white woman called the cops on them. We walked up right as the cops were pulled up on them to talk to them about why they were handing out candy on Halloween.

LEMON: Wow! So I want to watch a clip from this episode. You are talking to students about some really troubling infractions they've had with their teachers. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We had to pick an organization to work with for the semester. And my teacher told me she wanted me to help out a foster home. I was like, oh, why? And she was like, oh, don't you come from foster care?

(LAUGHTER)

BELL (on camera): Wow.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And I was like --

(LAUGHTER)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And I asked her, I said, where did you get that from? She was just like, well, I just -- and I was like, you just what?

BELL: I got it from racism.

(LAUGHTER)

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: At least they have a sense of a humor about some of it. So tell me what these kids were saying.

BELL: Well, I mean, I think they have a sense of humor about it. We really sort of frame this episode because we talk about racism a lot on this show. I was like, how can we frame this in a different way? And so in this episode, it's Milwaukee, we are talking to mostly black people or people of color. And, you know, I joked about this thing called the black people meeting which is basically any time black people are together, they are talking about racism.

If you're not black, welcome to the black people meeting. When we talk about those things in the black community, we laugh a lot because that's how we process the pain of the interaction. You laugh to sort of release the tension. That is why we have so many great African- American comedians in this country.

So for me, it was like, I don't want people to confuse the laughter for taking it lightly. The laughter is a way to go I have to release this tension because this feels impossible to think about.

LEMON: Before you go, I've got to talk to you about this. This is a video. It's gone around the internet. It's gone viral. It is a dad having a conversation with his baby son. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right, don't bring that in. You know what I'm saying? Do you understand?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE).

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice-over): I love you, too.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yeah, like go somewhere else with that, but don't bring it here, you understand? Yeah.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's what I said, and he was like -- I was like what in the world. Don't do that here, you know what I'm saying. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Really? I thought the same thing.

(LAUGHTER)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We think a lot alike, huh?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE).

(LAUGHTER)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, that's crazy.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(LAUGHTER)

LEMON: That is --

BELL: I have to check my glasses. That might be me with my 1-year- old. That's our words.

(LAUGHTER)

[23:54:58] LEMON: Listen, I love the show where we have been talking about banning YouTube people for being racist and homophobic, white supremacists, whoever. And then you have this. Can we get more of this on the internet, please, instead of the other stuff? This is the cutest video of the week, don't you think?

BELL: We could have a hashtag called black people doing regular stuff. America often sees us in videos being confronted by police. We have to sort of shout out about injustice, but also how about black people doing regular stuff like talking to your baby on the couch?

LEMON: That baby is adorable. That is a one cute little kid. Thanks, Kamau.

BELL: I got a 1-year-old at home. That is number two, my baby. LEMON: I'm sure. Thank you, sir. I will see you next time. Be sure you tune in to the all-new episode of "United Shades of America with Kamau Bell." It premieres Sunday at 10:00 p.m. We thank you for watching. Our coverage continues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)