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Don Lemon Tonight
Unhappy Outside But Happy Deep Inside; Gov. Steve Bullock (D- MT) Is Interviewed About His Plan For His Candidacy In 2020; Robert Mueller To Testify Wednesday; The Remarkable Story Of Marijuana Pepsi Vandyck. Aired 10-11p ET
Aired July 19, 2019 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[22:00:00] ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: British company that operated the ship says armed guard took control but then let the ship go.
Here is the president's response earlier.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
This only goes to show what I'm saying about Iran. Trouble. Nothing but trouble. I was right about Iran and let's see what happens.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: The news continues. Let's turn things over now to Don Lemon and "CNN TONIGHT."
DON LEMON, CNN HOST: This is CNN TONIGHT. I'm Don Lemon.
So much for disavow. So much for the president's claims that he disagreed with the send her back chant that erupted at this campaign rally this week. Did anybody really believe he was unhappy with those chants? Because he wasn't.
You saw hip standby and let it happen doing nothing to stop it. Did anybody really believe he would take back the racist tweet that started it all? He won't. Listen to what he said today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: President Trump you not happy with the chant. However, the chant was just repeated.
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: No. You know what I'm unhappy with?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Instead, what you said in your tweet.
TRUMP: You know what I'm unhappy about? I'm unhappy with the fact that a congresswoman can hate our country. That's what I'm unhappy with.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So, you're not unhappy about --
TRUMP: Those people in North Carolina that stadium was packed. It was a record crowd. And I could have filled it 10 times as you know. Those are incredible people. Those are incredible patriots.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: So, the president insisting that his supporters in the crowd chanting "send her back" that they were true patriots because they agree with him. And falsely repeating a slur that any of those four congresswomen or color hate our country because they disagree with him.
That's why he tweeted in the first place. "Why don't they go back and help fix the totally broken and crime-infested places from which they came." Completely ignoring the fact that all of those congresswomen are American citizens. That tweet is why the chants happen. And why he let them go on for a full 13 seconds.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Omar has a history of launching vicious, anti-Semitic screeds.
(CROWD CHANTING)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: It is why just 12 minutes later, he was back on his love it or leave it refrain, telling the crowd this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Hey, if they don't like it, let them leave. Let them leave. Let them leave.
(APPLAUSE)
TRUMP: They're always telling us how to run it, how to do this, how to -- you know what? If they don't love it, tell them to leave it.
(APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: So, I'm sure you're away. We all knew "send her back" is turning into the new "lock her up." Equally hateful, probably even more hateful than that. It is dangerous and disgusting.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(CROWD CHANTING)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Well, today the President of the United States showing his true colors. After yesterday's failed attempt to convince you he didn't like that "send her back" chant.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. President, if I may, when your supporters last night were chanting "send her back," why didn't you stop them? Why didn't you ask them to stop saying that?
TRUMP: Well, I think I did. I started speaking very quickly. It really was a -- I disagree with it, by the way. But it was quite a chant. And I felt a little bit badly about it. But I will say this, I did and I started speaking very quickly. But it started up rather fast as you probably know.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So, you'll tell your supporters never to say that again. That that is --
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: I was not happy with it. I disagree with it. But again, I didn't say -- I didn't say that. They did.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But they were echoing what you said in your first tweet that they should go back.
TRUMP: Well, I don't think, if you examine it, I don't think you'll find that. But I disagree with it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: He says he disagrees with the chant. He says he was not happy with it. Well, that was yesterday. Of course, less than an hour later he said this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What is your message to the supporters who are making that chant?
TRUMP: Well, these are people that love our country. I want them to keep loving our country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: And that brings us to today. The president no longer seems to have any problem with that chant. And refuses to acknowledge the racism of his own "go back to where you came from" tweet.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[22:04:56] TRUMP: You know what's racist to me? When somebody goes out and says the horrible things about our country, the people of our country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Some fact checking to do on that a little bit later on. Showing us what he really cares about. What he cares about is the news coverage of his pretend disavow of those racist chants.
Tweeting that the news media became crazed otherwise known as reporting the facts? Maybe. And immediately pivoting to claims about the size of the crowd. We know how he loves to talk about the size of the crowd. Right? The president doubling down and tripling down on his slurs against the congresswomen and seeming to lose track of how many there are, going from four to three because he doesn't like their politics.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I can tell you this. You can't talk that way about our country. Not when I'm the president.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Actually, you can't talk way about our country no matter who the president is. That is the right of every single American citizen, the right of you and everybody, a right that is in the First Amendment of the Constitution. Remember that? Our government is prohibited from abridging the freedom of speech.
But that's not stopping the president from attacking the congresswomen, attacking their right to free speech refusing to acknowledge what he has said about this country. Remember? Let's not forget American carnage. Which I should point out is from his inaugural address. Yes, he said this to America on the day that he took the oath to protect, preserve, and defend the Constitution of the United States. Here it is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Mothers and children trapped in poverty in our inner cities. Rusted out factories scattered like tombstones across the landscape of our nation. And education system flushed with cash but which leaves our young and beautiful students deprived of all knowledge.
And the crime. And the gangs and the drugs that have stolen too many lives and robbed our country of so much unrealized potential. This American carnage stops right here and stops right now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: American carnage. But the president today just brushing aside his own hypocrisy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In the past you said America is laughing stock of the world that you don't believe in American exceptionalism. Why is it OK for you to criticize America, but not Democratic congresswomen?
TRUMP: I believe all people are great people. I believe everyone is great. But I love our country. And I'm representing our country. And people can't go around speaking about or country and saying garbage. These women have said horrible things about our country and the people
of our country. Nobody should be able to do that and if they want to do that, that's up to them. But I can't imagine they are going to do very well at the polls.
And I say this, if the Democrats want to embrace people that hate our country, people that are so far left that nobody has ever seen it, that's up to them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Didn't really answer the question. Why is it OK for you to criticize the country but it's not OK for the congresswomen to criticize the country? He never really answered that. And he kept saying and they have said that this called the country garbage.
That is not true. That's a fact check that I was telling to you about. OK? But did you hear what he said? He admitted this is all about politics for the president. Twenty-twenty is looming. All about branding Democrats as far left, as socialists, as extremists, as a party that embraces hate when it was hate and divisiveness that helped him to get to the White House.
Let's not forget that he never missed a chance to espouse the racist birther lie that Barack Obama was not born in this country.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(APPLAUSE)
TRUMP: I want him to show the birth certificate.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why? Why? OK, why not, I guess?
TRUMP: There's something on that birth certificate that he doesn't like.
People have birth certificates. He doesn't have a birth certificate. Now he may have one but there's something on that birth -- maybe religion, maybe it says he's a Muslim. I don't know.
And if he wasn't born in this country, which is a real possibility. I'm not saying it happened. I'm saying it's a real possibility. Then he has pulled one of the great cons in the history of politics.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Like I said, that was a lie. One the president repeatedly still clings -- reportedly, I should say, still clings to today in private in spite of the facts. And today, he wouldn't even allow for the possibility that the first lady and his own daughter might give him advice.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What did the first lady and Ivanka advice you about the chant? I know you guys talked about it?
TRUMP: False information.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You never talked about it?
TRUMP: No. I talk about it, but they didn't advise me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[22:10:02] LEMON: True to form for the man who once said this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: My primary consultant is myself. And I have, you know, I have a good instinct for this stuff.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: True to form for the man at the Republican convention, by the way. The man who compared this country to a third world nation and proclaimed "I, alone can fix it."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Our road and bridges are falling apart. Our airports are third world condition. And 43 million Americans are on food stamps.
I have joined the political arena so that the powerful can no longer beat up on people who cannot defend themselves.
(APPLAUSE)
TRUMP: Nobody knows the system better than me. I, alone can fix it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: The president didn't want to consider the possibility that the first lady might give him some advice. But there's another first lady who might be able to share some wise words with this president, another first lady. You know what and this is the former first lady.
Michelle Obama tweeting this today. "What truly makes our country great is its diversity. I have seen that beauty in so many ways over the years. Whether we are born here or seek refuge here. There's a place for us all. We must remember, it's not my America or your America. It's our America."
The former first lady right on the mark. Our diversity is what truly makes America great. He should listen. Thank you, Mrs. Obama.
We've seen the president do the same thing again and again. Try to distance himself from his own racist statements only to double down later. Are his voters still buying what he is selling? That is a question for Van Jones, Max Boot, Alex Stewart, next.
[22:15:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK) LEMON: President Trump back to his old defiant tone today about racist tweets directed at the four congresswomen of color, backing away from his claim just yesterday that he was unhappy with the "send her back" chant at his rally on Wednesday. Instead calling the crowd incredible patriots.
Let's discuss now with Van Jones, also Max Boot, the author of "The Corrosion of Conservatism: Why I Left the Right," and Alice Stewart.
Alice, I changed you name in the teaser, I called you Alex, but sorry about that.
ALICE STEWART, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: That's OK, Don. That's OK.
LEMON: As much as I talk to you, I should know your name, right. Good evening, everyone. So, I want to first, Van, let's start with this, right? Because this has been bothering me all day as I've been listening to the president give these statements.
You know, he did it at the White House today and he keeps saying these congresswomen are anti-Semitic. There was one who made controversial comments and apologized and said she would learn from it.
Then he said, they have been calling America garbage. That is not -- if you look at the fact check. She said -- about Alexandria Ocasio- Cortez, she said that the country has gone so far in the wrong direction that people shouldn't be satisfied with moderate policies that are merely 10 percent better from garbage. That's not calling the country garbage.
VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: No. And frankly, she was criticizing Democrats.
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: She was criticizing democrats.
JONES: So, she is actually calling her own party.
LEMON: So why -- but he just -- he said the same thing over and over and over. And it was just a lie, a lie, a lie.
JONES: Well, you know if you tell a lie enough times it becomes a truth.
LEMON: Gaslighting.
JONES: Yes, gaslighting. You just tell a lie. So, he's saying these horrible things. If you -- one of the things I think is quite remarkable about the so-called squad, if you listen to them, I tell liberals all the time, I actually listen to Donald Trump's speeches not just the sound bites. This is the whole speech. You have a situation going on.
If you listen to what these young women are saying, they are growing an office. They are reaching out to white workers; they are reaching out to the white working class. And Ilhan Omar has forced an alliance with Jewish people in her and she's working very closely to try to repair some of that damage and to bring forward a peaceful message.
So, he's not, so he's frozen them in time with a false narrative and he's talking about people, you know, he's lying about what they said. But we're now ignoring the fact that these young women these young incredible leaders are actually growing an office and doing exactly what we want them to do. If you say something wrong, apologize and do better.
LEMON: Right.
(CROSSTALK)
JONES: That's what they're doing.
LEMON: That's what you're supposed to do.
JONES: That's not what he's doing.
LEMON: That's not what he's doing. He's making it crystal clear, Max, that he's racist.
MAX BOOT, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: He is definitely making it crystal clear to anybody who has not drunk the Kool-Aid, Don, that is he a racist. But I'm very glad that you are focusing in on the lies that he's telling about these women. Because you know, we tend to focus statements about "go back where you came from" and the chants of "send her back."
But you're absolutely right that he's kind of smuggling in these lies and he keeps repeating them and even by debunking them or repeating them and almost spreading the narrative for them, which is that that these women hate America, they think that Israel is evil, they support Al Qaeda. These are lies.
And I have to say, I mean, I have a lot of disagreements with the squad. They are well to the left or where I am where I think most voters are. I do think Ilhan Omar has been guilty of anti-Semitic statements and I have, you know, problems with some of the things that they advocate. But there is zero evidence that they quote, unquote, "hate America."
Trump is just making that up. And as Van was just saying, just to (Inaudible) he is making a lie part of our discourse and that is very troubling.
LEMON: Alice why is he telling lies on these women? Why is he trying to change the narrative?
STEWART: Let's just make one point clear in terms of being factually accurate here. Between these four congresswomen who have done a lot for their issues and their policies, they have made anti-Semitic statements. One of them actually did walk it back but they have made anti-Semitic statements. So that is factually accurate. And that is something that the president -- (CROSSTALK)
LEMON: So, what are the anti-Semitic statements? When people say that what is the -- what's the anti-Semitic statement? Because I have seen the anti-Semitic tweets by or the ones that were controversial from Ilhan Omar. But I don't see any other anti-Semitic statements from any of the other women?
JONES: Right.
STEWART: Well --
LEMON: And she apologized and said that she's learning. So, what are the other anti-Semitic statements?
STEWART: Well, they've talked about those that support -- they -- those that support people of Israel or the Jewish people is all about the Benjamins. They've made a series --
(CROSSTALK)
[22:20:02] No, that's one -- that's not they.
LEMON: That's the same one that I'm talking about.
JONES: That's not they. That's Ilhan Omar. And she was talking about AIPAC. And stepped in it and she realized it sounded like she was going that old Jewish slur that, you know, Jews are using their money in a negative way. She walked that back.
But that's one. I think that's really unfair. Ayanna Pressley you're going to say that she's anti-Semitic? That makes zero sense at all. I mean, if you look, I mean, Rashida Tlaib?
So, again, this idea that you just throw it out there. But then when you poke into it, it turns out it's back to two tweets. And those are tweets that Ilhan Omar has walked back.
And I do think she deserves credit, Ilhan, for listening to her own Jewish citizens and then reaching out to Jewish Congress members and now working for peace.
So now if you can't make a mistake on a tweet and then be forgiven and do better, then why do you have a president who does makes the same mistakes on Twitter every day and never apologizes and does worse. So, I just think it's not fair for us to fall for these kinds of tricks.
STEWART: But I think it's important -- the only issue is not about the anti-Semitic statement. It's not about that. It's the overall policies and the president has mentioned this a few times. I wish he would focus more on the real issue here is their policies. And they overall -- their far-left policies are really emblematic of the Democrat Party now.
JONES: No. STEWART: Their socialist policies, le Green New Deal, the late term abortion, their free college for all. And there are overall policies that these four represent --
(CROSSTALK)
JONES: None of those are proof --
STEWART: -- are emblematic of the Democratic Party and that is what the president certainly should focus on.
JONES: Listen. There's a wing of the party that likes that some of stuff. There's a wing of the party that likes it a little bit less. But none of that is proof that anybody hates America, that anybody ever said America is a garbage or that anybody hates the Jewish people.
So, again, I don't mind having these debates and arguments. I'm on the left side of this party. I (Inaudible) all those ideas when you talk about health care for everybody and doing better on the environment.
But, you know, that's not what the president is talking about. And the part is weird to me, is that the president could -- he's got a barrel of good stuff he could reach into. In fact, his criminal justice stuff with our first step back about 3,000 people came home today from the federal prisons. Ninety-one percent black.
We're not talking about any of that stuff because he goes over to the nasty barrel, scrapes the bottom of that barrel and comes up with splinters and we got to talk about that for a week.
So, I don't understand what this president is doing. But to me, you know, we are now in a position where we have to just call it like it is. These are lies and lies based on racial intolerance. And it's wrong.
LEMON: Max, I want you to weigh in here because this is the definition of a demagogue here, a leader who makes use of popular prejudices and false claim and promises in order to gain power. In your view who does that sound like?
BOOT: There's no question. I mean, I don't know how you can dispute that Donald Trump is a demagogue, he is a hate monger and he is really bringing fascism to America. I mean, what he is doing is unconscionable. I mean, he is sometimes compared and I've compared him to people like George Wallace or Lester Maddox.
But remember, George Wallace and Lester Maddox they did not become president. We have never had a president like this going back unless you go back to somebody like Andrew Johnson as, I think has been cited as our most racist previous president.
This is really unprecedented. And it's not just the racism. It's also the vilification of the opposition. Saying, they hate America, they want to destroy America. These are things that we have not heard from previous presidents. This is way over the line. This is really undermining the norms of our democracy. And this is
going to be a very great threat to the future of the country especially if Trump wins reelection which is very possible.
LEMON: I got to go to Van.
STEWART: Yes.
JONES: I think this is some authoritarian tendencies here, I think.
LEMON: Yes.
JONES: But I wouldn't use a term fascist at this point so I just wanted to say like, to my point of view, he's doing a lot of stuff. It's bad. It's wouldn't go that far.
LEMON: That's got to be the last word. Sorry, I'm out of time. Thank you, all. I appreciate it. Don't miss "THE VAN JONES SHOW," it's Saturday, Saturday night at seven Eastern with his guest Megan Rapinoe and the governors of Wisconsin and Pennsylvania. I'm going to tune in to that. I can't wait. And then you're going to have the audience and your new set and all that.
JONES: Right. The brand-new studio.
LEMON: Yes.
JONES: The big reveal.
LEMON: We'll see you then, we'll see you then, Van. Thank you.
The big stage is set and the candidates are ready to go. What is Governor Steve Bullock's plan for the debate? I'm going to ask him. There he is, coming up.
[22:25:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: The lineup is set for CNN's Democratic presidential debate, July 30th and 31st. And this time there will be a new face on that debate stage, Democratic Governor of Montana and presidential candidate Steve Bullock. There he is. Joins me now live. Good to see you, sir. Thank you for coming on.
GOV. STEVE BULLOCK (D-MT): Don, I can think of no better way to spend a Friday night than here with you.
LEMON: I like that. You're going to be on the debate stage later this month. You didn't qualify for the first Democratic debate. So, so far, many Americans -- for many Americans, I should say, this is going to be the first time that they're meeting you. I don't know. Are you feeling the pressure, are you under pressure to try to make a big splash? What's going on with you?
BULLOCK: I'm excited about it. You know, it struck me I was in town this morning. One woman said you know what was missing from that debate stage? And it was our voice is what she said. So, I want to make sure that we don't have a debate and a discussion
that's really disconnected from the challenges that folks are facing. And I think that I bring a lot to it as the only one in this field that actually won in a Trump state. Recognizing that we got to bring out our base and win back places that we lost.
I've been able to bring people together even with a Republican legislature and get progressive things done. I've been able to fight and that's been the fight of my career. It's fighting for the dark mud in our politics. So, excited to be able to bring many of those things in the stage in about a week and a half.
LEMON: Yes. So, let me ask you this, Governor, you're going to be sharing a stage with Senators Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren. They are competing for progressive voters. You're also going to be sharing a stage with other moderates like Amy Klobuchar. Where do you fit in there? Where will your focus be?
BULLOCK: Well, I think, you know, everybody says what's the lane. And my lane is been to get stuff done that matters in people's lives. I mean, the core of the word progressive is progress.
[22:30:01] I've been able to make progress when it makes about making our election clean or providing health care for people. Or investing in education. What I want to do is make sure that we walked out of that debate with folks knowing that, look, I'm from outside of Washington D.C. I think often in D.C. giving speeches or a plan is nothing more than just for a press release vs. getting things done. I don't have that luxury as a governor.
LEMON: You know, Joe Biden released his health care plan this week. He's calling for new subsidies to make Obamacare coverage cheaper. Calling for a new public option. With a Medicare-like program. You supported Obamacare, but do you think it needs strengthening?
BULLOCK: Well, I think it does need strengthening. I mean, we should always make sure that fight to make sure that health care is accessible and affordable for everyone. I think that we can do that by a things like a public option. You know, we pay more for prescription drugs in any place in the country.
And we can't even negotiate those prices down because the corrupting influence of money in our system. Getting rid of surprise medical billing and out of network charges. That is the way I approach it without trying to disrupt what could be about 180 million folks with employer sponsored care. We need to make that better and more affordable, not completely up in the whole system.
LEMON: So, in 2016 you won reelection by 4 percent. And at the same time President Trump won Montana by more than 20 percent, Governor. You have an appeal in a red state. Will that appeal roll over to critical swing states that are needed to win back the White House do you think?
BULLOCK: Well, I think it will, Don. Because, you know, we need to be able to win back some of those places that we lost. The Michigan, Wisconsin's, the Pennsylvanians. In addition to being good everywhere else. And when you look it like when 44 percent of Americans wouldn't have $400 in their pocket, when you look over the last 40 years over half of Americans haven't had a pay increase in real terms, you know, we got to start focus on how do you make everybody's lives better not use politics to divide us and give everybody a fair shot at a better future.
LEMON: When it comes to the presidential race. Here's what you told Politico, you said, maybe all the rules are gone. Maybe every single rule is gone. Tell me what you mean by that?
BULLOCK: Well, I just think, look, this president between his lies and misstatements, dividing us by race, by gender, by geography. I mean, everything that we would expect as normalized is changing a lot and then when you look at sort of, we now are now in the age of celebrity. You know, that Barack Obama's first term Senator. The last Senator before that that we successfully nominated on the Democratic side was John F. Kennedy. So we've often look for people with executive experience.
I certainly hope that this presidential race isn't a reality show. You know, who has the most tweets and clicks. And I hope that the rules, I think the rules will continue. You know, I'm in Iowa today. It's always been Iowa that sort of the great sorting hat that takes a large field and brings it down. Iowa and all of the other four early states. I kind of expect that to be the same. But we'll have to see what the rules are this go around.
LEMON: You're going to wear a tie next week, right?
BULLOCK: If you tell me to wear a tie, Don. I'm wearing a tie.
LEMON: I'm just asking. I'm not telling you to wear a tie. Just wondering. You know, if you are going to do the tie thing or not. It's your first time.
BULLOCK: It's a Friday night in Des Moines. For you I can take that tie off.
LEMON: It's a heat wave. So, we'll let you slide. Governor, thank you. I appreciate your time. Thank you so much.
BULLOCK: Thanks for having me on today.
LEMON: Don't miss out two night CNN Democratic presidential debate. July 30 and 31, beginning at 8:00 p.m. Eastern.
Robert Mueller set to testify publicly before Congress on Wednesday. What do Democrats and Republicans want to hear most from him?
[22:35:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Two House committees set to hear testimony next week for former Special Counsel Robert Mueller with Democrats hoping to shed light on what staff members call the gravity of the president's misconduct. Mueller slated to appear publicly Wednesday for three hours before the Judiciary Committee. And then roughly two hours before the House Intel Committee. Sources telling CNN that both parties are holding mock hearings to prepare. Joining me now to discuss is Jack Quinn, Jennifer Rodgers, Harry Litman.
Good evening to all of you.
Jennifer, I'm going to start with you, because I want to play House Intel Chairman Schiff on what Democrats expect and then we'll talk. Here it is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: You know they can't go beyond the reporting.
REP. ADAM SCHIFF (D-CA): Well, we are going to ask him questions beyond the report and we are going to expect him to answer.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: So, Manu Raju is reporting that a number of Democrats are rereading the Mueller report. How would you advise them to ask effective questions?
JENNIFER RODGERS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, that is always a tough thing with members of Congress, not always the best on doing that. Listen, I think if they want to go beyond the report they need to focus on two things.
One is the whole issue with Bill Barr, was there interference, and you might want ask Mueller questions like, when did you decide to end your investigation and how did it come about. You know questions about the communication between Mueller and Barr. And those days after the report was handed over to Barr, things like that.
But there are two issues that I really hope the committees get into that are not within the four corners of the report. That I hope he will answers about. One is the counter intelligence investigation. Where they were really looking into whether the president based on his conduct was actually a Russian asset. What happened to that? Where is it now? Is DOJ and FBI taking it seriously as far as you know?
And the other thing is interference going forward in the 2020 election and beyond. What did you learn about interference that can help us solve this problem in the future? Do you think again that the government is prepared for and preparing for that kind of interference going forward? He may answer those questions, because they're not overtly partisan, even though they are not really within the report itself and I hope they ask.
[22:40:00] LEMON: In that way everyone gets something out of him testifying. Out of his testimony, right? You got to help to figure out how to make the next election better.
RODGERS: Hopefully. And the American public learns more about why this investigation was so important. LEMON: Exactly. Harry, listen, the time for questions. It is pretty
limited. Members of the judiciary panel could have under five minutes for questions. How do Democrats best utilize that time you think?
HARRY LITMAN, FORMER DEPUTY ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL: Well, so, the number -- I agree with Jen. The number one sort of strategic question and Chairman Schiff. Do they go outside, do they sort of swing for the fences. The ultimate fence clearing shot here would be a question to him, hey, but for the OLC memo, would you have found the president was guilty of a crime, but if that backfires, and he is sort of bristles, that's the bad sort of one minute TV shot that they're worried about. They've got to approach him gingerly at first.
Stay in the four corners very carefully tracking what's in the report, but then kind of cut the wake a little and see how he is. He doesn't want to be there, but he is not -- he is a responsive and dutiful guy. And he may give them a little, but they've got to be very gingerly about it first. So they don't get caught in the situation where they are worse off than if they never ventured outside the report at all.
LEMON: Manu Raju also reports that Republicans plan to try poke holes in the Mueller team's credibility. Something the president has complained about since the investigation began. I mean, Jennifer, Mueller has already said that he will not go beyond what's laid out in the report. How do you see this kind of line of questioning playing out?
RODGERS: Well, it's interesting, because even though he has said that, one thing he did at his press conference was defend his team a little bit, right? So, I think even though it's not within the report, he will answer questions that are designed to either attack his team. At which point I think he will jump into defend them. Or questions from Democrats that is design to say, hey, listen your team was non-partisan. Career prosecutors for the most part and he'll talk about that. So, I think he actually will go there.
LEMON: Harry, I'm wondering why you say that the home run question for Mueller would be, would you find it appropriate to charge for obstruction? Do you think he'll answer that? And why do you think its home run?
LITMAN: OK, the home run is because it puts to rest these tortured kind of interpretation every time you address his criminal conduct you have to say things like didn't exonerate, etc. If we know that Mueller founded and a careful read really suggests strongly that he did. It's the best sort of sound bite going forward. So that is why it would be a home run.
LEMON: Yes. So, Jack, how do Democrats reinforce the evidence of Trump team's obstruction of justice? As well as the evidence of Russian interference in their questioning?
JACK QUINN, CNN COMMENTATOR: Look, I missed a little bit of this because I had an audio problem. And so if I repeat things that have been said. Just stop me. I think it's critical that the committee for the Judiciary Committee in particular make use of the House rule that allows a single person to question a witness in a committee hearing and divide the time, divide one hour between the two sides of the committee. Republicans and Democrats.
This is really is the last opportunity conceivably for the Democrats to demonstrate that an impeachment proceeding is in order. If this is a big kerfuffle were Democrats don't make the case, make the theory of the case, it's pretty much I think over anyway. And so they got 30 minutes to really make this point.
And there are two critical things here. Number one, they have got to make crystal clear through questioning Mueller, you know, that Trump was found to have satisfied the elements of obstruction of justice, but that uniquely among Americans that prosecute the prosecutors here, declined to bring a charge against him, they need to explain why. And they need to explain that the reason they didn't was because he is the president of the United States. And any other American would have been charged.
Secondly. They need to make clear that Mueller found that the constitution sets forth a process other than criminal justice to deal with a situation like this. And they need to bring out of him the fact that the other process is impeachment.
LEMON: OK.
QUINN: This has to be brought down to these two points.
LEMON: All right, Jack.
QUINN: And brought home powerfully, clearly and simply.
LEMON: And we are out of time. That's got to be the last word. Thank you all. I appreciate it. We'll be right back.
QUINN: Thanks, Don.
[22:45:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Tonight I want to introduce you to Marijuana Pepsi Vandyck. Yet, that is a real name. But now you need to call her Doctor Marijuana Pepsi Vandyck. The 46 year-old Wisconsin native has spent her life overcoming preconceived notions about her because of her unusual name. But she's always moved her life forward and appropriately, she and her PhD, studying uncommon names, right. Dr. Marijuana Pepsi Vandyck joins me now.
MARIJUANA PEPSI VANDYCK, DIRECTOR OF TRIP STUDENTS SUPPORT SERVICES PROGRAM BELOIT COLLEGE: Thank you so much.
LEMON: Congratulations on your doctorate. I do have to say, probably not as much as you. But Lemon wasn't such fun name to have always and when I first started out in this business, there were people, news directors who wanted to change my name. And I said, no way. It's Don Lemon. Lemon is such an easy name. Don't you agree? Like your name. You want people to remember you, right?
[22:50:00] VANDYCK: Not always, but, yes, I agree. It's very difficult already having to go through the name.
LEMON: Right.
VANDYCK: So, you want people to call you what you want them to call you.
LEMON: Absolutely. So, listen, again, congratulations on earning your doctorate.
VANDYCK: Thank you.
LEMON: Your dissertation topic was black names in white classrooms, teacher behaviors and student's perceptions and I guess it's obvious, but was your background the reason that you chose that research, because of your name and because of your experience?
VANDYCK: its yes and no. Yes because, of course, I have a distinctly black name, I believe. However, I was a schoolteacher and I heard a classroom teacher state that her class scores would be in the toilet for that year, because of her class list that she had just received. And when I looked at the list and heard the other teachers talking I realized she was talking about the students names. There was no other identifying information on the list except for their gender.
LEMON: So what did you learn about the experience? Because you just talked about it a little bit. The experience of black kids who grew up with these unusual names. What did you learn about that and did you hear similar stories from these kids? Because you interviewed a lot of them.
VANDYCK: Yes. I did. I heard similar stories. You know, the impacts that they experience were lower teacher expectations, mental stress and anxiety. It hampered their academic performance. Their academic achievement. It altered their student/teacher relationships. It made class very difficult and some of them even changed their career goals. Thus, you know, impacting their long-term academic and educational outcomes.
LEMON: Did it impact you that way when you were growing up?
VANDYCK: It did, however, at the same time, it didn't, because I bounced back, came back around and became the educator that I wanted to be. And so it turned out in the end, and it turns out -- it's going to turn out in the end for the students that I did interview, they're all very strong just like I was because their names have made them so.
LEMON: Think about it now. You know, it used to be common people would just, you know, name their kids a normal Don or John, or you know, not that there's anything wrong with that, but if you look at, especially what famous people are naming their kids now, you know, from Apple to, like, North West.
VANDYCK: Yes.
LEMON: And you know, Plum, and all of these things. So, you were just ahead of the curve. You were, like, you were a trend leader.
VANDYCK: You know, I am a product of Ms. Brandy Johnson, that's my mother. She pick my name, she is a force to be reckoned with. She makes her own path, she dares anyone to go and get in her way, she will knock them over. So, it is really no surprise that she named me.
LEMON: Why did she -- how did she pick that name?
VANDYCK: It's no surprise at all. You know, she once told me that she named me that because that name would take me around the world. Just judging from the way that when articles are written, the way it flies across the internet, I guess she was right in that sense, however, I could neither confirm nor deny that it was her that said that drinking marijuana and maybe smoking was a great high.
It might have been her or someone else along the line. I hear that all the time. And so it's always funny to hear, you know, the feedback. But, yes, she said it would take me around the world and here we go, I'm sitting here with Don Lemon.
LEMON: I got tell you, and we're so happy to have you, and I love your spirit. And I love that you took what some people thought would be a negative and you turned it into a positive for you. You made it work for you. That is the ultimate lesson for anyone. But listen, I just want to ask you about this, I think, I know you want to talk about it, you're starting the Marijuana Pepsi scholarship this fall. To help first-generation African-American students at the University of Wisconsin Whitewater. What made you want to start a scholarship?
VANDYCK: Right. When I -- when I graduated from high school, I was given a $12,000 Wisconsin Power and Light scholarship and a most improved student award. Leading up two years prior to that, I was headed to be a high school dropout. I had all D's and F's. I hadn't done well in school. I'd let everything else just impact me and it turned around and when I received that scholarship two years later, I vowed that I, too, would give back, and I didn't just do the scholarship now. I have literally been taking money out of my educator salary every month --
LEMON: Wow.
VANDYCK: -- for the last 10 years to endow that scholarship and now it is finally done, and it will send someone a scholarship into my grandchildren's grandchildren will be giving out that scholarship because it never ends. It's fully endowed.
[22:55:02] LEMON: Well, all those people who --
VANDYCK: It's --
LEMON: Go on, what'd you say?
VANDYCK: I was going to say, you know, you -- its pay it forward. I guess that is my mantra. Pay it forward. Someone did it for me and I want to do it for others. LEMON: All those people who said you should do something different,
who made fun of you, guess what, now you are Dr. Marijuana Pepsi Vandyck, by the way, right?
VANDYCK: Right, that is correct.
LEMON: Congratulations. Keep doing you. Keep doing being a great human being.
VANDYCK: Thank you so much.
LEMON: Thanks for joining us. OK?
VANDYCK: Thank you, don.
LEMON: It was a real pleasure.
Our coverage continues. Laura Coates picks up next.
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