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Don Lemon Tonight

Red Flag Raised To Warn U.S. Voters; Joe Biden Still Holds The Top Rank In Polls; Racism Becoming The Norm; Race In The USA; American Citizen Held By ICE Speaks With CNN. Aired 11p-12a ET

Aired July 25, 2019 - 23:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[23:00:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DON LEMON, CNN HOST: This is CNN TONIGHT. I'm Don Lemon.

Breaking news. New election warnings tonight. The Senate Intelligence Committee releasing a wide-ranging report on the extent of Russia's hack of U.S. elections in 2016.

Concluding it was extensive, that Russia likely targeted elections in all 50 states and warning the federal government and states to do more to protect against cyber attacks and to protect the integrity of our elections.

The report comes one day after Robert Mueller, the former special counsel warned Congress that Russian hacking is happening right now. And FBI Director Christopher Wray issued a similar warning today.

The intel committee's report released as Republicans in the Senate move to block bills aimed at strengthening election security. Calling them too partisan.

Let's bring in David Sanger, he's a national security correspondent for the New York Times. David, so good to have you on. Thank you so much. By the way, David is the author of "The Perfect Weapon: War, Sabotage and Fear in the Cyber Age."

So, David, we have learned tonight that election systems in all 50 states were targeted in 2016. This goes much farther than we knew.

DAVID SANGER, NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT, NEW YORK TIMES: Well, it does, Don. We had heard the 50 number. What made this different in this report is that it's now been sort of officially endorsed in what was supposed to be the major investigation into the election interference.

And by that, I mean the investigation of this one volume is just on the question of what happened as they tried to get into either election machines or into registration systems.

Now, it says that they were not successful in changing any votes within the machines. It leaves a little bit unclear what they were doing in the registration systems, whether they were there just for surveillance or whether they actually managed along the way to tinker with changing votes or whether they were thinking about the 2018 or 2020 elections when they went in there.

LEMON: OK, I want to read this from -- this is the case, one case in Illinois. It says "Russian cyber actors were in a position to delete or change voter data but the committee is not aware of any evidence that they did so." If they were in a position to change voter data, why didn't they do it?

SANGER: Well, a couple of reasons you could think of. The first is they were just experimenting to see if they could get in. The second was they got this warning in October, September of 2016 from President Obama directly to President Putin who knows whether or not that would have impressed them or not. But their only opportunity to change votes would have been on election day.

And the third possibility was this was a part of the operation in which they were just practicing. And that's why the fact that they went to all 50 states is so important because every state as you know, Don, does their elections a bit differently.

And so, a method that would get you in Missouri might not get you in, for example, in Kansas. So, it was important to them to do this broadly. Now, most interestingly is not what the report said but what the intelligence community wouldn't let the report say.

LEMON: Yes.

SANGER: And this is a hugely redacted report.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: Well, that's what I want to ask you about.

SANGER: It gives you a lot of damage.

LEMON: Let me ask you about the redactions there, because you point this out. You said there are significant redactions in the introduction in the section on recommended actions. There is one part that almost is completely redacted." Why so many redactions if this is meant to prepare folks for -- look at that. I mean, what do you get from that. Why -- why are there so many redactions if it's meant to prepare people for 2020?

SANGER: It's pretty remarkable, Don. Look, I've written about a lot of different government reports. I've seen redactions before. Think about the WMD report that came out after 9/11 that discussed the security of nuclear weapons and biological weapons and all that. I understand for that.

In this particular case it seems as if the intelligence agencies' usual instinct to go classify almost anything about cyber has run right into the question of whether or not they're getting in the way of deterrence here.

[23:04:56] Because this report is only effective if you can lay out your recommendations, lay out your findings and everyone in the states can read it. Both to for the ordinary citizens to say, look, we're not spending

enough on say paper backup for your ballots.

LEMON: Right.

SANGER: And for people who work in the states who don't have security clearances to know what to go do.

One of my favorites here is a recommendation that begins with the words build a credible, and that's the last words you see. A credible what?

LEMON: Yes, I think we saw that up on the screen. Thank you, David Sanger. I appreciate that. I appreciate that. Good reporting. Thanks so much. We'll see you soon.

SANGER: Thank you.

LEMON:

LEMON: I want to look at the big picture now. Anthony Ferrante is here. He is a former FBI supervisory special agent, and CNN Global Affairs Analyst, Susan Glasser.

Good evening to both of you. It's good to have both of you on.

Anthony, I'm going to start with you, because there's this new bipartisan Senate intel reporting that's echoing what we're hearing from the FBI Director Christopher Wray and Mueller yesterday. Watch this and then you will respond.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. WILL HURD (R-TX): Did you find evidence that suggests they'll try to do this again?

ROBERT MUELLER, FORMER SPECIAL COUNSEL, RUSSIA PROBE: It wasn't a single attempt. They're doing it as we sit here.

CHRISTOPHER WRAY, DIRECTOR, FEDERAL BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION: We expect much of the same in 2020 especially with new cyber tools that are continuing to fall in the hands of adversaries who would do us harm.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: So, Anthony, where is the urgency to stop this from happening again?

ANTHONY FERRANTE, FORMER FBI SUPERVISORY SPECIAL AGENT: It's a great question, Don. I mean, it's clear now, I mean this is large sophisticated coordinated campaign that the Russian government has been leading since 2014.

This is what Russia does. They sow discord. They're taking this massive effort to undermine our elections, the bedrock of our democracy, the right to conduct free and open elections. And now this is out for the public to see, for the public to understand. And it's definitely a step in the right direction. But now is the time to stop talking about this issue and let's do something about it.

LEMON: Yes. Susan, I see you're shaking your head in agreement there.

The House Democrats actually sent a letter demanding that the president get the same, sort of receive the same, sort of in-depth briefing on foreign interference like lawmakers did.

Part of the White House's response is they said, "You think the Democrats would have learned to stop grandstanding and actually take election security seriously." Which side of it is actually taking election security seriously?

SUSAN GLASSER, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Well, look, it's just shocking really in many ways that we're still just talking about this two and a half --

FERRANTE: Right.

GLASSER: -- more than two and a half years after the 2016 election. First of all, I think it is a significant revelation you have a bipartisan group on the Senate Intelligence Committee confirming that the Russians were active and present in all 50 states in 2016. That is far different than what was initially reported at the time, first of all.

Second of all, in an election situation where it was so close where the ultimate outcome was decided of this presidential election by a little bit more than 70,000 votes, you know, I think it changes your perspective a little bit, doesn't it?

LEMON: Yes.

GLASSER: And then as far as the gridlock on Capitol Hill about what to do about it, I was really having a case of Groundhog Day today looking at Mitch McConnell, the Senate majority leader's statement essentially saying well, gee, we don't want to move forward on these elections security bills because they're too partisan, so we're not going to do anything, which was in fact actually very much the conversation here in Washington in the fall of 2016.

LEMON: Interesting. How ugly, Anthony is this going to get if we don't do -- if we're not prepared?

FERRANTE: Don, this is just the tip of the iceberg. Not only did the Russian government prove that this could be done in 2016 but now the rest of the world witnessed it and the rest of the world knows what is possible.

I think this is just the tip of the iceberg and we need to really be prepared for 2020 because in addition to targeting the electoral infrastructure across all 50 states there's also the opportunity to conduct a massive influence operation across the United States to potentially affect the minds of the American voters. LEMON: Anthony, Susan, thank you very much. I appreciate your time.

New 2020 polls out tonight ahead of the CNN Democratic presidential debate next Tuesday and Wednesday. We're going to tell you who's ahead. That's next.

[22:10:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: All right, pay attention, everyone, because new polls are out in key states ahead of next week's CNN Democratic presidential debate. That as Joe Biden is signaling that the gloves are off as he prepares to go up against Kamala Harris and Cory Booker.

Joining me now to discuss Joe Trippi, Angela Rye, and Tara Setmayer.

Angela, why aren't you here in D.C.? Everybody is here in D.C. and you're off in Lalaland in L.A.

ANGELA RYE, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I didn't get the invite. I've been working with my -- working with my guys since I haven't been a lot of times with my guys.

LEMON: Well, good. Well, I hope to see you in person soon. So, let's talk about this.

RYE: Me too.

LEMON: Good evening. Hello, everyone. Tara, this new poll out in Ohio may strengthen Joe Biden's case heading into the debate. Let's put it up. In a head to head matchup Biden is the only candidate that clearly beats Trump. The others show no clear leader in the matchup against Trump. Give me your reaction.

TARA SETMAYER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, obviously as someone who is supporting Joe Biden I'm happy about this and it goes to the argument that he really is the person out of the field right now that can connect with voters that the Democrats need to win back in order to win back the White House in 2020.

Ohio, Michigan, Pennsylvania, Joe Biden has consistently polled well there because those are the people he speaks to the most and those are the Democrats lost. The Obama coalition, the lost those folks which allowed Donald Trump to win.

So, I'm glad to see that, and you know, he's got to have a strong performance or he has to have a strong performance not one like he had last time in the debate coming up. And I suspect it'll be a different Biden.

(CROSSTALK)

[23:15:05] LEMON: So, Joe, the polls also show that in this matchup between Trump and Biden, independents break for Biden by a wide margin as well. Do we -- there it is. How strong of a case do these numbers make for Biden to be the nominee?

JOE TRIPPI, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I mean, it's -- look, we're way off.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: It's early. Yes, it's early.

TRIPPI: Things are going to change.

LEMON: I mean right now in this time -- at this time.

TRIPPI: But Biden is doing two things. One, he still continues to lead with the African-American and with the black vote, that's a big deal in our party. And then at the same time to be able to do that and still maintain this lead with independents.

You know, when you see this and he's doing it with better than Republicans -- with a Republican than everybody else in the field that's a prescription for winning in November, that's the case he's going to keep making.

LEMON: Yes.

TRIPPI: And that's why he's going to have a target on his back in the debates.

LEMON: Angela, a new poll out in South Carolina shows that Biden way ahead with African-American voters there. He has a 51 percent and a 39 percent edge over Senator Harris. I mean, he maintains a very, very solid lead there which so far, it's been durable. Do you agree with that?

RYE: I think that it is really far-out. To echo Joe, I think the reality is Joe Biden spent two terms with the first black president who has sky high approval ratings not just with black voters but with voters across the country especially now, in case you missed it.

So, when you think about Joe Biden and how he's performing of course he's going to do very well. A lot of these folks don't even know who Kamala Harris is yet. And I think that they'll soon be surprised. She's wonderful, she's great. This is going to be a competitive Democratic primary, and again we're not even at the second debate yet, Don, of which you are co-hosting.

LEMON: That is all true. Did you want to say something?

SETMAYER: Well, I wanted to say something.

LEMON: Go on.

SETMAYER: Coming up with the debate I think that Biden and Booker -- I mean Harris and Booker need to be careful not to keep honing in on racial issues from 40 years ago or things that happened all these years ago because you do not want to depress the black vote --

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: Let me just say this. (CROSSTALK)

RYE: I disagree with that.

LEMON: And then -- hold on, hold on.

SETMAYER: Because the guys -- the votes that you need --

LEMON: You guys can -- you guys after this because you know this whole thing about Biden changing his tone, this is senior campaign official telling CNN, quote, and then I'll let you guys hash it out.

"He isn't going to take hits from any of the candidates sitting down. He won't personally attack anyone, but he will be very clear about the contrast between he and other candidates in this race. Discuss.

SETMAYER: Right. Right. And the reason why I'm saying this is because Joe Biden was -- his commitment to Civil Rights and his commitment to issues that affect the black community have never been in question when he was asked to be the vice president of the United States for eight years under Barack Obama. It wasn't a problem then.

It wasn't a problem when Senator Harris ask him to come introduce her at the California convention. It wasn't a problem for the Democrats when he was asked to go for 24 states and campaign for 65 candidates during the midterm election.

So now all of a sudden, he's someone out of touch with what Democrats want?

LEMON: All right. Angela?

SETMAYER: I think that's the wrong -- the wrong tactic for the Democrats to say.

LEMON: Go ahead, Angela.

RYE: And I definitely appreciate you, Tara, saying that. But I think the reality of it is times have changed. That we have been through a hell of a lot since 2008. And so, what you're seeing is there's a new cadre of black voters who now, maybe some of them are voting for the first time. And they are saying, listen, there are some issues that didn't matter to you all that matter to me now.

The very people who were locked up under the crime bill in 1992, not just at the feet of Joe Biden but certainly one of the leaders at the forefront of it were my parents, was my uncle, was my aunt, was my big brother, was my big sister and these are things that we care about and it's top of mind.

Wages are at the top of mind. And so, Joe Biden is going to have to make a case but it absolutely is a different ball game than it was in 2008, in 2012, in 2016 --

(CROSSTALK)

SETMAYER: But he's acknowledged his mistakes. But he acknowledged his mistakes with that. It could have a new criminal justice.

RYE: I understand that. But that doesn't mean that it's sufficient.

SETMAYER: So why are we hammering things that happened 20 and 40 or 30 years ago?

RYE: Because they never had a voice, Tara, they're first time voters.

SETMAYER: OK, great. And Joe Biden is going to have the opportunity to show what the future is going to be.

RYE: Exactly.

TRIPPI: But this is the --

(CROSSTALK)

SETMAYER: Instead of talking about what happened --

TRIPPI: This is actually the split that you are seeing in the African-American community, though. It's a generational divide.

(CROSSTALK)

RYE: It's not just in the African-American community.

TRIPPI: No. It's a -- there's a generational divide in the party writ large for sure.

RYE: Yes.

TRIPPI: But you're also seeing it in the African-American community where Joe Biden, the voters that have lived through life with him saw -- you know, grew up with him, saw him make his mistakes, saw him become vice president to Barack Obama. He's got a goodwill with those people.

And I agree, that then when you get down into the generation, he'll be voting for the first time or the younger generation across the board, they're not -- they're not really -- they're up for grabs and Joe Biden needs to win them.

[23:19:58] LEMON: I'm out -- I'm out of time. Thank you all. I appreciate it. Don't miss the CNN Democratic presidential debates next Tuesday and Wednesday nights. Dana Bash, Jake Tapper and I are going to moderate. July 30th and 31st beginning at 8 p.m. Eastern.

OK. Caught on camera. A white woman calls a group of black women at a North Carolina restaurant the n-word, and she insists she'd say it again. That story next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: All right, please pay attention to this segment. If you're in bed -- just watch, OK? Just watch. New shocking video that you have to see. It shows a white woman calling three black women the n-word at a North

Carolina restaurant. And we're about to play the full exchange, OK? We're not going to bleep out the n-word. That's because it's important to see how racist and just how hurtful it is to be called that word especially in a public place and by a stranger. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHANDA STEWART, CALLED A RACIAL SLUR WHILE DINING OUT: So, I am shocked because this person had the audacity right here to come to our table and tell us that we are the rudest people that she has ever met.

[23:25:00] Look at her. She told us that. We are getting off work, we're paying for our food just like everybody else, and she told us that we are the rudest people, ever.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You all making me nervous, I'm going to whoop somebody ass.

STEWART: No. Here's the thing, here's the thing, what you got to understand is that you don't know what people are going through -- you want to come over here? You want to come?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She is not going to come over here.

STEWART: Yes, she will. Yes, she will.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She got bold.

STEWART: Don't do that, don't do that.

NANCY GOODMAN, NORTH CAROLINA RESIDENT: You know, I've got really good friends that are black, and I love them.

STEWART: We never said anything about color.

GOODMAN: But they would never act like you all.

(CROSSTALK)

STEWART: We never said -- how are we acting? How are we acting? So here's the thing. Let me understand.

GOODMAN: You're too loud.

LAKESHA SHAW, CALLED A RACIAL SLUR WHILE DINING OUT: We're too loud? In your opinion. In your opinion. Let me show you my money. It's just as green as yours.

GOODMAN: Right. you're so stupid, niggers.

STEWART: Stupid? No.

(CROSSTALK)

SHAW: No, no, no, no. So, call your black friends a nigger. Call your black friends a nigger. Wait a minute now -- she basically just called us a nigger. You have black friends and you still call us a nigger.

GOODMAN: They're not like you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: All right, well, usually a video like that would be enough to talk about with our guests. Chanda Stewart and Lakesha Shaw. There they are right there. They are the women behind the camera in that video but there's more for you to see and it's just as shocking.

Our affiliate WRAL caught up with Nancy Goodman, the woman who said that racist and hurtful word and they asked her if she would say it again. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOODMAN: I'm a 71-year-old woman who lives in Raleigh. I suffer from tremendous anxiety. I'm not going to say I'm sorry to them because they kept pushing at it. So. And that's all I'd really like to say.

SARAH KRUEGER, REPORTER, WRAL: What about your use of the n-word?

GOODMAN: I used that word because they forced me into it.

KRUEGER: Do you see how that's incredibly offensive?

GOODMAN: Yes, I do. That's why I said it. I would say it again to them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: We contacted Nancy Goodman for this program. We haven't heard back from her. So here with me now Chanda Stewart and Lakesha Shaw. Good evening.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Good evening.

LEMON: So, we heard your reaction being called that word. You were -- were you shocked or no?

STEWART: Very shocked.

SHAW: Extremely shocked.

STEWART: Yes. Very shocked, caught off-guard, not prepared at all. Unbelievable.

LEMON: She took issue, Chanda, with your behavior at the restaurant. On the tape we hear another friend of yours make a comment about whooping somebody's ass.

Do you think Nancy Goodman heard that comment and do you think that was appropriate to say? Not that -- listen, that would not justify the use of a racial slur by any means, but if someone is in your face, that's kind of stuff that happens. But go on. STEWART: I wouldn't think that she heard that. At that point she was

still on the other side of the restaurant. She hadn't made it to the table at that point, so, no, I don't think she would have heard that. And at that point, keep in mind, this was the second time that she approached us, so we were kind of at that point already, you know, upset.

LEMON: So, the first time was not on tape, though, right? What happened that first time?

STEWART: Right.

SHAW: So, the first time she actually came out of nowhere. We don't know where she was seated but she just appeared at our table. We were there enjoying our meal just like we normally do.

We visit Bonefish quite often and we were doing the same thing that night and enjoying our meal and she just came out of nowhere. She approached our table and started banging on our table and screamed at us you are the most rudest people I have ever seen, and she turns and walks out of the restaurant.

And so, the video that we actually captured was when she actually returned to the restaurant. And she made a comment about being anxious, but she after leaving the restaurant decided to come back in and continue to make remarks. And so, that video --

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: Well, she said that -- she said that the n-word -- she used the n-word because she suffers from anxiety. You mentioned that she was anxious, that she suffers from anxiety. Do you think that was -- that's an excuse? What do you think of that excuse?

STEWART: Not at all. I think that it's -- no, it's not a good excuse. I think we all suffer from things and we all go through things but that doesn't give us the right to just be rude and use that type of language with anyone. So, no.

SHAW: Yes.

LEMON: Yes.

SHAW: And then her demeanor. Looking at the WRAL interview, she was proud, you know, what she had done and was not remorseful. And the fact that she said she would say it again she looked very, you know, calm and kempt at that point.

STEWART: Right.

LEMON: What goes through your mind when you hear her say that? I know how you feel about the n-word. But then when you hear her double down on it in the WRAL interview?

STEWART: At that point I wasn't shocked. I wasn't shocked. And I'm just speechless still, still trying to wrap my head around it and she just -- just rude. What she called us is what she actually is, rude and just uncalled-for.

[23:30:09] SHAW: Very sad to think that someone could feel so entitled that they could -- and proud that they did that and acted that way in public, and then you're going to circle back around on T.V. and proclaim how proud and -- that you are of yourself at what did you did. It's sad that she felt like we didn't deserve the mere respect of being the human beings that we are. She focused on our color.

LEMON: Do you get called that word around there ever?

SHAW: Never --

STEWART: Never.

SHAW: -- in my -- all the years that I have graced this earth have I ever been called that word.

STEWART: Never.

SHAW: This was the first.

LEMON: Really? Wow!

STEWART: I think you get used to certain looks or used to maybe certain behavior from some people who may feel that way, but to be called that, that was a first for me.

LEMON: Do you think people are emboldened now?

STEWART: I'm sorry?

LEMON: Do you think people are emboldened now in some way to use language like that or to behave that way?

STEWART: Absolutely, I do.

SHAW: Yes.

LEMON: So, listen, our affiliate WRAL also obtained an apology that Nancy Goodman posted on Facebook, but it was not an apology to either of you. Here is what it says. It says, "I would like to apologize to my family, friends, and other patrons in the bar." And then she went on to say, "I suffer from extreme anxiety, which is not an excuse. I am ashamed of my actions." Is that enough?

STEWART: No.

SHAW: No, not at all. I think she was trying to save face for herself prior to the airing of that taping that WRAL showed because that post came before that, and she was trying to save face for herself. She still showed no concern for us and even said that she, you know, would not apologize to us. I think she was more like, again, saving face for herself.

LEMON: Yeah.

SHAW: So it's definitely not enough if you're feeling like you will never apologize for what you did.

LEMON: Thank you, Chanda. Thank you, Lekesha. I appreciate it. Thanks for coming on.

STEWART: Thank you.

SHAW: Thank you. We appreciate the opportunity.

STEWART: Thank you.

SHAW: Thanks.

LEMON: Listen, anxiety and fear doesn't make you racist. It doesn't make you say words like that. We've said that in another context as well. Using language like that and using language like "go back" because -- and making excuses for it because you say other people agree with you, that's not an excuse. It doesn't make -- anxiety doesn't make you a bigot or a racist. That comes from a whole another thing, OK? So, that's it. It doesn't make you say words like that.

We asked Nancy Goodman for a statement or to be on our program tonight. We'd still like to hear from her. We're going to discuss all of this with Bakari Sellers and Alice Stewart. That's next.

[23:35:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: So you just heard the story, a white woman in North Carolina says that she is not sorry for hurling the N-word at a group of black women in a restaurant, and she says that she would do it again.

Let's discuss now with Bakari Sellers and Alice Steward. Good evening to both of you.

ALICE STEWART, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Hi, Don.

LEMON: Three friends out for dinner, Bakari, having a good time and this happens. Give me your reaction to the story.

BAKARI SELLERS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I'm not surprised by any stretch. I mean, these two young ladies were living their best life and enjoying hot girl summer, and here they are being called the N- word at Bonefish Grill. I mean, that's just the way America is now, that's 2019, and that's an unfortunate -- that's just an unfortunate way to describe where we are.

I mean, I go back to Charlottesville, Don. I always, whenever I am speaking around the country, I always ask people what was the most surprising part about Charlottesville. And the most surprising part of Charlottesville is that they were protesting, yelling racial slurs without any hoods on, without any masks.

People are racist now, just plainly and boldly. They don't even have to wear hoods anymore. I'm old enough to remember when people were racist behind closed doors, and now people are emboldened. And so, you know, I feel really bad for those young ladies but they handled it with such grace, because it could have been a whole lot worse for everybody involved in that, Don.

LEMON: Yeah. Alice, you believe that they handled it with grace as well. But the thing is she doesn't have any contrition about it.

STEWART: No, she doesn't. And I think her excuse or her writing us off as saying that she suffers from anxiety, anxiety is not an excuse for being racist. Anxiety doesn't make it OK for you to say something like this. And the fact that she doubled down on it --

LEMON: She might say, "I'm not racist," but basically she's saying, Alice, "I'm not racist, I just use that word." Does that even make sense?

STEWART: No. Using that word is racist. And going out and attacking these girls that are out having a good time, as Bakari said, living their best life, having a good time, having dinner, that's wrong. It's racist.

LEMON: Couldn't she have just gone to the manager if she had an issue or something or saying the table --

SELLERS: Don --

LEMON: Yeah, go on.

SELLERS: No, no. There comes a certain point in time when white people need to mind their business.

(LAUGHTER)

SELLERS: That's just -- that is just a point. I mean, we've had this with the barbecue. We've had this with people walking. I mean, the whole list and list of things goes on where people are calling police --

LEMON: No, no, that's not what I meant. I mean, if you're having an argument with someone, not that someone at the next table is doing something that you don't, no, but if you're in an argument with someone, don't you go to the manager and say, "Listen, there is an argument." I am not talking about -- that's like calling the police on someone. That is not what I meant, Bakari. Go on.

SELLERS: I mean, I get what you meant, but the point still remains.

[23:40:01] I mean, there comes a certain point in time when you're paying your bill, you just need to get up and leave. I mean, if someone was loud at the table besides you, just mind your business and leave.

LEMON: Right.

SELLERS: I mean, at what point do you feel like it's OK for you go to go insert yourself in someone else's business and then call them the N-word? I think that people need to utilize the word so that they can understand the shock, but I do respect you for not utilizing that word on your show, Don.

LEMON: Yeah. That's also -- that's what I call entitlement, where you feel like I am owed something or I am in a position of authority over this person so I am going to try to influence, right, use my influence and my authority to either harm them or get them to curb their behavior so that their behavior matches how I want them to behave. Go on, Alice.

STEWART: The disturbing part of this is what we've seen from the video itself and you speaking with the two women. This woman came back to them and like went back to them again to make her point. And here's the frustrating thing with this. Unfortunately, growing up in the south, this kind of talk happens. People have said that for many years.

The difference now is people are videotaping it, and they're showing people, look, this is unacceptable. You can't go around saying this kind of thing. So this woman got caught saying something that she has probably said many times before, but she got videotaped and she's being held accountable.

I would like to think at some point she will actually acknowledge the error of her ways and really give a true sincere apology not just to her family or to the people at the restaurant but to these women who deserve it because they did not deserve that.

LEMON: Yeah. Bakari, I have like 20 seconds left. Listen, almost every time you hear this -- by the way, they said that they had never been called the N-word, you know, that was the first time. But you always refuse (ph). I have many black friends and I love them, like the one in that video.

(LAUGHTER)

SELLERS: Yeah. I mean, that's the worst person on earth to be tonight (ph), to be her lone black friend.

(LAUGHTER)

SELLERS: I mean, just imagine being her one black friend at work that she talks to every day and they're like, "That's your home girl right there?"

(LAUGHTER)

SELLERS: So, I mean, I don't know. I just think that --

(LAUGHTER)

SELLERS: -- racism is what it is. Racism as American as apple pie. We just -- and Alice is so correct now. You just can't be racist like you used to be able to do because people now have I-phones, et cetera.

(LAUGHTER)

LEMON: Thank you both.

STEWART: Thanks, Don.

LEMON: Oh, boy oh boy, what is going on? Thank you. Behind bars for more than three weeks, sleeping on concrete and surviving off sandwiches, an 18-year-old, a U.S. citizen, born in Dallas, detained by ICE is now free, telling CNN what he went through.

[23:45:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: There are some serious questions that need to be answered about why an American citizen was held in custody by immigration officials for three weeks. Francisco Erwin Galicia is 18 years old. He was born in Dallas. And at the end of June, he was taken into custody by border patrol agents in Southern Texas, even though he had documents with him proving his citizenship.

He was given little food while in detention, forced to sleep on a concrete floor, and not allowed to shower for 23 days. He was finally released this week after his ordeal was made public. CNN's Nick Valencia spoke with Francisco Erwin Galicia today.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Francisco Galicia is home at last, but the reminders of his detention are never far away. Sitting in his South Texas home, the 18-year-old American says what he went through should never have happened even if immigration officials alleged he's partly to blame.

(On camera): Immigration officials say that there was confusion about your status because there was conflicting documents. Do you think that this was about the documents or do you think that this was about something else?

FRANCISCO ERWIN GALICIA, DALLAS-BORN CITIZEN DETAINED BY ICE (through translator): They thought they were superior. They looked at us with such distaste. I think it was like a certain type of racism.

VALENCIA (voice-over): For three weeks, he slept on the concrete with nearly 70 others who were doing the same.

They didn't even treat you like human beings.

GALICIA: No.

VALENCIA (voice-over): He survived off baloney sandwiches and says every three to four days, he was given a wet wipe to clean himself.

(On camera): You didn't shower at all?

GALICIA: No shower for 23 days?

VALENCIA (on camera): You didn't shower for 23 days.

GALICIA (through translator): For 23 days, and a bad diet. I lost nearly 30 pounds.

VALENCIA (voice-over): In his 27 days in custody, Galicia said no one ever believed he was American. At one point, tired of trying to explain himself, he considered self-deporting to Mexico.

(On camera): They just mess with your mind? How? Explain.

GALICIA (through translator): The truth, threatening me that they were going to press charges, charges for falsifying documents. The whole time insulting me that how could I not know where I was from.

VALENCIA (voice-over): This all started on June 27th, when Galicia along with his brother and two friends left their home in Edinburgh and headed north. They were stopped at a checkpoint in Falfurrias about 100 miles north of the border while on their way to Ranger College in Central Texas for a soccer camp.

Galicia, who was born in the U.S. but grew up in Mexico, was carrying documents proving he was an American, but he also carried a tourist visa that mistakenly listed his birth country as Mexico. This individual provided conflicting reports regarding status of citizenship after being apprehended.

Situations including conflicting reports from the individual and multiple birth certificates can and should take more time to verify, CBP and U.S. Immigrations and Customs Enforcement said in a joint statement on Wednesday.

[23:49:59] Galicia thinks border agents would have believed he was American if not for his broken English.

(On camera): There are going to be people that watch this interview and say that you live in the United States, you're an American, you should be speaking English. What do you -- you smile. What do you say to these people?

GALICIA (through translator): I don't speak English but I'm going to learn it, and I'll speak it later.

VALENCIA (on camera): Is this a more of a reason to learn English now?

GALICIA (through translator): I have to learn and to talk to everyone and everyone so that the next time this happens, they will believe me.

VALENCIA (voice-over): Somehow, he is able to laugh about his time in custody, which he said ended media picked up his story. But just a few days removed from detention, he spends a lot of time thinking about those who aren't as lucky.

(On camera): Our president talks about how -- there are a lot of bad actors, a lot of people that are here to do harm among those that are coming to this country. But you're telling me you felt more scared being in the presence of the ICE officials and immigration officials than you did with the migrants.

When you were there, how many of the migrants would you say were here to do harm to the United States?

GALICIA (through translator): None. None wanted to come to do harm. All came in search for a better future.

VALENCIA (voice-over): After being locked up with them, he now considers some of them friends. He keeps a handful of phone numbers on tiny pieces of paper he received from those friends while in the facility. He's calling families in Central America to tell them their loved ones are still alive.

GALICIA (through translator): To see the suffering of other people, it made me understand many things. One can live his life here in a certain way while others suffer.

VALENCIA (on camera): You speak for them now?

GALICIA (through translator): Yes. I mean, I try to because they can't talk. I'm like their eyes and ears from there inside.

VALENCIA (voice-over): Walking outside, Galicia says the air to him smells fresher than before. Things look and feel different, too, and so does he. Even though he lives on the border, prior to his detention, he never paid attention to the migrant crisis. Now he's lived it.

Nick Valencia, CNN, McAllen, Texas.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: Nick, thank you very much. I want to talk about this, this whole story with Elliot Williams, who is a former assistant director of ICE in the Obama administration.

ELLIOTT WILLIAMS, FORMER ASSISTANT DIRECTOR OF ICE, FORMER DEPUTY ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL UNDER BARACK OBAMA: Yes, sir.

LEMON: Good evening. Why did it take three weeks for an American citizen to get out of ICE detention?

WILLIAMS: It's a profound tragedy. Look, I see how it happened in the first place.

LEMON: Right.

WILLIAMS: He was born in the U.S., moved to Mexico as an infant, and then there were some falsified records when he came back to the U.S. and that's what they had. But it seems what the officers wanted to do was find that this guy was illegally present. They wanted to confirm a suspicion that they had, and I don't think they were wanting to hear that he was a citizen of the U.S.

And so in ICE and CBP, they issued a statement today or yesterday saying, look, you know, it takes a long time and we want -- we want to make sure that we get this right, but three weeks is a long time for someone who is a citizen of the United States to be detained. There's no way around it. LEMON: Confirmation bias is a real thing.

WILLIAMS: It's a real thing.

LEMON: It's real.

WILLIAMS: Yeah.

LEMON: It's real. So was the fact that he didn't speak perfect English, was that something that caused ICE agents to be -- border protection agents to be suspicious of him and assume that he wasn't an American citizen and to arrest him?

WILLIAMS: What you're asking is was he profiled? And I think, you know, to some extent, yes, because look, number one, he didn't speak perfect English. Number two, at the time he was apprehended, I think he was in the car with other people who were undocumented.

So right there, I think the officers thought, wait a second, something's fishy. What's troubling is that he had a copy of his birth certificate --

LEMON: Right.

WILLIAMS: -- in his -- do you have a copy of your birth certificate in your wallet, Don?

LEMON: I don't even know where mine is.

WILLIAMS: Right.

LEMON: I've been calling my mom. She said, "I mailed you that birth certificate 10 years ago. You keep asking me. I don't have it. You got to get another copy of it." I don't know where mine is.

WILLIAMS: Birth certificate, driver's license and so on. Now, again, there was some confusion about his record on account of that back and forth when he was a kid, but how many people have their birth certificate and a valid Texas driver's license? So, again, these officers didn't like what they saw. The standard is -- you've heard the term probable cause.

LEMON: Yeah.

WILLIAMS: If they have probable cause to believe someone is not a citizen, they can detain him.

LEMON: And his mom -- didn't his mom bring him the --

WILLIAMS: When he was -- when he was in detention, they brought his birth certificate.

LEMON: They brought his --

WILLIAMS: But the articles say that even then, they didn't believe it. LEMON: So, let me -- he said he was so desperate that he considered self-deporting. I mean, what would happen if he didn't get this media attention?

WILLIAMS: I think he would have been removed from the United States. I think there is no question that he would have been removed from the United States.

LEMON: Do you think we're going to see more mistakes like this?

WILLIAMS: Yes, because what the Trump administration has done is expanded what's called their expedited removal policy.

LEMON: Yeah.

WILLIAMS: Pretty much anyone who has been in the country for less than two years is subject to this if they can't demonstrate. So now, you have all this discretion with agents. It is going to keep happening.

LEMON: Thank you, sir.

WILLIAMS: Thank you.

LEMON: Thanks for watching, everyone. Our coverage continues.

[23:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)