Return to Transcripts main page
Don Lemon Tonight
Former Top Trump Russia Adviser Testified For 10 Hours; Investigators Look At Rudy Giuliani's Bank Statements; President Trump Demands Ceasefire In Syria; Make Or Break Moment For Democrats; Critical Week In Impeachment Inquiry Into President Trump; John Kasich's New Book; White Fort Worth Police Officer Charged With Murder; President Trump Sanctions Turkey. Aired 10-11p ET
Aired October 14, 2019 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[22:00:00]
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST: I mean, within the margin of error, you could say it's dead even race, but, you know, Warren, I guess is doing a consolidation game from Bernie Sanders now at 11 percent in the poll.
Tomorrow makes that much more of an impact on the state of this race. Which one we'll have the night that gets all the talk. Because you get the talk you get the headline. You get the headline you get the buzz, you get momentum and you get donors.
That is the set of stakes that makes the CNN debate so big. So, thank you for watching. I'm late. Let me get it right to D. Lemon starting his show right now.
DON LEMON, CNN HOST: But do you get -- that's all right. Do you get people to go to the polls though from that? I don't know about that.
CUOMO: And you know, you are dead right. You are dead right. I'm talking politics with a small P, you're talking politics with a big P. Momentum within this primary everything I'm saying stands.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: But your question winds up being the ultimate one, is the one who emerges that man or woman, someone who owes people are kind of on the fence and those people you identify, I am going to still Don's point.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: Don said, you know, there are people who may not like this president who are so worried he's going to win again, that when you get close to the election, and they think he's going to win, they may not go out and vote because they don't want to give him satisfaction of beating him. That's some deep psychology that only D. Lemon could come up with.
LEMON: Yes. Smart man. The thing is, you mentioned consolidation. I'm just wondering what happens if Bernie Sanders -- if, I'm not saying he is because Bernie Sanders is still in the race, we all wish him well. But if he continues to shrink, right, his support, as it has been, I
wonder what that means for Warren and for Biden if they go to one or the other or maybe they'll come back after this heart attack scare and maybe he'll rise. Who knows?
CUOMO: And look, we wish him well.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: Nobody started the recent wave on the left of younger people involving in politics the way Bernie Sanders has.
LEMON: Bernie Sanders. Amen.
CUOMO: And of course, we wish him all kinds of strengths and vigor to take it through the finish line and have the most robust debate we can have. But any attrition with him you got to see two ways. About 70 percent of it is going to go over to Elizabeth Warren.
LEMON: Right.
CUOMO: The overwhelming majority. The rest creates more of a bundling of the x-factor. What happens if Biden just slips away and he doesn't seem relevant anymore because of his, you know, dueling with Trump or whatever. And what happens if Warren, for some reason, gets seen as an inadequate proxy too far left. Now you have a whole new race with the Buttigieg, the Cory Booker and the Kamala Harris.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: You know, that's why we got to wait and see.
LEMON: I got to ask you. Listen, I always tune into debates because I think it's -- you know, their -- it's is fantastic to watch. Just to see if they're on their toes and to see what their policies are.
I'm not sure, though, and I've always believed this. If there is as fair assessment of who could be a better president. Because being a good president is not how you can answer questions in 30 seconds or one minute. You know what -- do you feel me?
CUOMO: Pup said you campaign in poetry you govern in prose.
LEMON: Right.
CUOMO: And style counts a lot in politics. Period. But this, you know, this in-fighting within the primary it's really just bona fide to see who has the political skills. The raw political skills and the ability to compete with pressure on a big stage. Does that make for a good president? Of course not.
LEMON: OK.
CUOMO: It's one or two qualities that matters out of let's say a dozen.
LEMON: Is it bona fides or bona fides or bona fides? I hear it all kinds of ways. I'm not criticizing you. I always --
(CROSSTALK)
CUOMO: I go bona fides.
LEMON: I say bona fides.
CUOMO: I like bona fides.
LEMON: I say bona fides. And I've heard people say bona fide. I think they --
CUOMO: Bona fide people say all the time.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: Look, it's Latin, we are not speaking the language anymore. It's dead. You say it any way you want, I know what you meant.
LEMON: I got a lot to get to, I'll see you my brother.
CUOMO: All right, pal.
LEMON: Have a good one.
This is CNN TONIGHT. I'm Don Lemon.
It is the eve of CNN's big Democratic presidential debate and it's in Ohio. The biggest debate ever with 12 candidates on the stage. We're going to get into that in just minutes. We got all of that covered for you. But we have to begin with the breaking news. And that breaking news is about Fiona Hill.
President Trump's former top Russia advisor just finishing up 10 hours of testimony behind closed doors about that phones call, Trump's phone call with Ukraine's president back in July where he pressured that leader to dig up dirt on Joe Biden.
Well, she also testified about Rudy Giuliani's efforts to get the Ukrainians to investigate Joe Biden and his son, Hunter.
There is a new report tonight about Rudy Giuliani as well. Investigators have examined Giuliani's bank records. More on that in a moment.
Sources say Fiona Hill also praise Marie Yovanovitch, the former U.S. ambassador of Ukraine who was ousted by Trump at the behest of Giuliani and others. Congressman Denny Heck had this to say about her testimony.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. DENNY HECK (D-WA): I've been in Congress for seven years and I can say in all candor that after thousands of hours of hearings, I have never had a witness that came across this as substantive per minute as she did. That was an amazing amount of information provided and I think it will be very helpful.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[22:04:58]
LEMON: Well, Congress is back from a two-week break. And this week lawmakers will have testimony from a number of key players. OK?
So, tomorrow the State Department Deputy Assistance Secretary, George Kent. On Wednesday, Michael McKinley who resigned last week as senior adviser to the Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, resigned reportedly because of Pompeo's lack of support for diplomats caught up in the Ukraine scandal.
And then on Thursday, Thursday is Gordon Sondland, U.S. ambassador to the European Union. He's going to testify on Thursday. He failed to show up last week you might remember after the White House ordered him not to testify. He is now being subpoenaed.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. JOHN GARAMENDI (D-CA): He is going to tell the truth. He's going to be under oath. He all know that if he lies, there are other people that are of privy to much of what will be said.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: And the Washington Post is reporting that Sondland will tell Congress that the phrase no quid pro quo -- listen to this, that phrase no quid pro quo came directly from President Trump in a phone call but he doesn't know if Trump was telling the truth. That's according to a source familiar with Sondland planned testimony. Again, the Washington Post s reporting that one.
And then on Friday, Laura Cooper, the deputy assistant secretary of defense will testify.
President Trump can't control the impeachment inquiry so he is ranting and raving about it on Twitter and in front of the friendly audiences, going after favorite targets like House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Congressman Adam Schiff, the chairman of the house intelligence committee who is one of the biggest thorns in the president's side. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: I actually tell my lawyer, I said sue him anyway. He's got immunity. But they mean immunity for that.
I said sue him any way even if we lose, the American public will understand.
(APPLAUSE)
TRUMP: And sue Nancy Pelosi. Well, maybe we should just impeach them. (END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Someone needs to tell the president that members of Congress can't be impeached. But, he can.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Impeachment. I never thought I'd see or hear that word with regard to me, impeachment.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Not so members of Congress. And then there is Rudy Giuliani. Here is what sources in law enforcement are telling CNN. His financial dealings with two associates who were indicted last week on campaign finance charges, related charges are under scrutiny by investigators overseeing the case.
And tonight, the Wall Street Journal is reporting that investigators have looked at Giuliani's bank records. Late last week it appears that the president was distancing himself from Giuliani after the arrest of his two associates.
When asked by a reporter Friday if Giuliani was still his lawyer, Trump said he didn't know. He later learned that Giuliani is still -- we later learned that Giuliani is still the president's attorney but won't do any work regarding Ukraine. You think so?
On Saturday, the two men had lunch at Trump's golf course in Virginia. Afterwards the president going out of his way to praise Rudy Giuliani.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I stand behind Rudy Giuliani, absolutely. I know nothing about him being under investigation. Somebody said and I heard a report today, I don't -- I can't imagine it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Can't imagine it. And then there is even more breaking news for you tonight. President Trump bowing to heavy pressure from Congress especially Republicans and imposing sanctions on Turkey for its military operation in Syria.
Speaking for the president tonight, Vice President Mike Pence said that Trump spoke to Turkey's president and demanded an immediate ceasefire.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAEL PENCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: President Erdogan reached out and requested the call. And President Trump communicated to him very clearly that the United States of America wants Turkey to stop the invasion to implement an immediate ceasefire and to begin to negotiate with Kurdish forces in Syria to bring an end to the violence. The United States of America did not give a green light to Turkey to
invade Syria.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: OK. President Trump didn't have much of a choice but to take action since deciding last week to pull U.S. forces out of sire Syria. Trump is receiving scathing criticisms from both Democrats and Republicans demanding he force Turkey to stop its military actions against the Kurds who are America's allies in Syria helping to root out ISIS, ISIS fighters.
Well, tonight's action it appears that the White House is trying to take charge of events in Syria that got out of its control.
[22:10:02]
And there is another disturbing matter that I got to bring up tonight. It's a fake video that depicts an extremely graphic fashion, depicted in extremely graphic fashion. The president, President Trump attacking and shooting his critics and media outlets including CNN inside a church.
The video is so graphic that we won't even show it on air. It's been around for a while. But it's now on the spotlight after the New York Times reported that it was played at a conference held by a pro-Trump group at Trump's Miami resort last week.
Today YouTube says the video does not violate the policies against content that incites violence because it is purely fictional. But while YouTube and others may view the video as purely fictional, for some journalists, including people here at CNN, it depicts something that is very real. And could incite violence.
And to depict this fictional massacre in a church, we have seen that in real life. And it is unforgettable. This is real.
White House press secretary Stephanie Grisham tweeted this morning that the president had not seen the video but would watch it shortly. She added that based upon everything he has heard he strongly condemns this video. But we haven't heard from the president. And it's after 10 p.m. He hasn't publicly condemned it himself.
So, I have to ask, if someone made a video of you committing mass murder, a massacre in a church, where you threaten an entire organization, would you be OK with it? Or would you come out and say this is wrong. I don't endorse it. Or would you stay silent?
Important testimony on Capitol Hill about the Ukraine scandal as federal investigators examine Rudy Giuliani's financial dealings in Ukraine. A lot to discuss. Kirsten Powers, Max Boot, after the break.
[22:15:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) LEMON: You know, this is a critical week for President Trump as the impeachment inquiry widens. His former Russia advisor testifying for 10 hours today. The most anticipated testimony set for Thursday with Ambassador Gordon Sondland.
Now I want to bring in Kirsten Powers and Max Boot. Max of course if the author of "The Corrosion of Conservatism: Why I Left the Right." So good to have all of you -- both of you on, I should say.
So, Max, the Wall Street Journal is reporting tonight that federal prosecutors in Manhattan are examining Rudy Giuliani's business dealings in Ukraine. His bank records are being examined. I mean, this adds a whole new layer to President Trump's Ukraine problems, doesn't it?
MAX BOOT, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: It absolutely does, Don. I mean, what we're seeing now is that there are multiple layers of corruption in terms of Trump's dealings with Ukraine. On one level of course, the corruption as Trump subordinating U.S. national security interest to his desire to get dirt on Joe Biden so that he can, you know, prevail in the 2020 election.
But then there is this whole other layer of corruption which we're now saying which is that Giuliani and his confederates, Fruman and Parnas, you know, what the heck were they up to? I mean, Fruman and Parnas are now been arrested on charges of circumventing federal campaign finance laws funneling hundreds of thousands of dollars to Republican candidates, and now, you know, they're also trying to get business in Ukraine, working with Sondland who is corrupt element of that country.
And of course, Giuliani, the president's personal lawyer, he was in the middle of it and now being investigated for possible violations of federal lobbying laws, possible business practices. I mean, wow, this is, this is like so much corruption, it's hard to wrap your head around it.
LEMON: I can't even believe as you were talking about it, you know, and of course, I've been in it every day and reading about it.
BOOT: Yes.
LEMON: But as it's just playing out, I mean, you know, I hate it when we do this, can do imagine. But I mean, Kirsten, can you imagine under the prior administration -- what would have happened?
KIRSTEN POWERS, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: The Republicans would be screaming their heads off. They would be absolutely going insane over this. There is no question. There is not one part of me that thinks that they wouldn't be completely obsessed with this and talking about it 24/7. So, as they should be.
And I think that, you know, I'd like to think that Democrats also would be bothered if Barack Obama had behaved this way or if he had people around him like Rudy Giuliani behaving this way. I mean, there are some standards I think that should cross over party lines regardless, you know, of how you make personally want to support that person.
So, you know, there is just so much information coming out. I mean, this testimony today about the complaints about the shadow, diplomacy of Rudy Giuliani -- I mean, what exactly, you know, was he doing here? Does he have a security clearance, for example? I mean, there's a reason that you appoint people --
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: Where do you think this could lead, Kirsten? Because, I mean, listen. I want to ask you this because federal investigators have been questioning witnesses since at least August. Giuliani is denying any wrongdoing. But I mean, he is under intense scrutiny. Where do you think this could lead?
POWERS: I mean, it could lead to him going to jail obviously, you know, if he broke the law. And I think that, you know, we have to wait and see what he did. But there is a real question about, you know, whether he has violated lobbying laws.
This just hasn't been done on the up and up. Like, what I was going to say is there is a reason that the president hires people and when they're in senior positions, you know, they have security clearances and they have accountability and some positions they have to actually be confirmed.
[22:20:04]
There is a reason for that. You don't just pick people and just let them roam around the world to doing things without coordination with the rest of the government.
LEMON: Yes. Max, you know, President Trump's former top Russia advisor, Fiona Hill testified for more than 10 hours today. More key witnesses are coming. What is Congress, I mean, what are they going to do with, you know, when they're back in session tomorrow. This is a huge week for the impeachment inquiry. And look at all these folks who are going to testify.
BOOT: Well, I think what they're doing, Don, is they're really nailing down the case against Donald Trump. I mean, it was already a strong case because Donald Trump released the evidence against himself when he released the rough transcript of his call with President Zelensky of Ukraine, and the whistleblower's complaint.
I mean, they have Trump dead right there with him saying I would like for you to do us a favor though, asking basically for a quick quid pro quo. But a lot more evidence has now emerged of just how corrupt Trump's diplomacy has been with -- you had the former ambassador of Ukraine testifying last week to how she fell out of favor with the Trump administration because of her anticorruption efforts which were apparently seen as a threat by Giuliani and his confederates.
Now you have Fiona Hill, the former top Russia person at the NSC talking about how Rudy was running the shadow foreign policy. Now according to the Washington Post, Gordon Sondland, the ambassador to the U.S. going to say that he was basically coached by Trump to say there is no quid pro quo.
LEMON: Yes.
BOOT: And he can't actually say on his own information whether there is a quid pro quo or not. I mean, this case is overwhelming. There is a reason, Don, why more than 50 percent of the public thinks that Donald Trump should be impeached and removed. Because this is not an open and shut case.
LEMON: Yes. But Kirsten, do you want to weigh in on that? Because, yes, what do you want to say to that?
POWERS: Well, I agree. And I've said this before it is an open and shut case. I agree with that 100 percent. There is no question that if, you know, if you put it to any fair-minded person, should the president should, you know, be trying to get a foreign government to be digging up dirt on a campaign adversary, it's not a hard question to answer.
LEMON: And it's really rattling --
(CROSSTALK)
POWERS: And the answer is no.
LEMON: -- the president's supporter, the ones who come in front of the camera, that this is not being held publicly because they don't know what's going on. They can't get into some of the meetings and they don't know what's going on and they're saying it's not fair. Do you buy that, Kirsten?
POWERS: No, I don't. I mean, look, there is plenty that's done, plenty of hearings that aren't done in the public eye so I don't think that that's necessary. And personally, based on what the president does to people and based on what his supporters do to people, if it was me, I wouldn't -- I wouldn't want to do it in person probably.
I mean, if it was me, Kirsten Powers, I probably would because I'm a public person. But if you are not a public person, I can understand why you wouldn't be comfortable doing that.
LEMON: Got it. Thank you both. I appreciate it.
BOOT: Thank you, Don.
LEMON: The former Ohio Governor, John Kasich weighs in on the impeachment inquiry and the tightening Democratic race ahead of tomorrow's big debate in his state. There he is right there in studio.
[22:25:01]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: A dozen of Democratic hopefuls are set to take the stage tomorrow night in CNN's big debate in Ohio, of all places. Can you imagine that? And it's a critical week as the impeachment inquiry expands.
A lot to discuss with John Kasich, the former governor of Ohio.
JOHN KASICH, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Hey.
LEMON: That's why I said that. Well, let me get the book in first. Or do you want me to get the book?
KASICH: I do.
LEMON: OK. He's the author of a new book called "It's Up To Us: Ten Little Ways We Can Bring About Big Change."
KASICH: Now here is the question.
LEMON: I'm going to get to the book in a minute.
KASICH: I know. But, no, here is the question.
LEMON: Here we go.
KASICH: The debates in Ohio --
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: And you are here?
KASICH: The Republican convention was in Cleveland and I didn't go to that? What -- what is it with me?
LEMON: I don't know.
KASICH: Can I ever be in the right place at the right time?
LEMON: Can't you just be a team player?
KASICH: And I have to be here.
LEMON: Can you be a team player right now --
(CROSSTALK)
KASICH: With you.
LEMON: -- let me ask you a few questions.
KASICH: Yes.
LEMON: We're going to talk about your new book as we just say in just a minute.
KASICH: Yes.
LEMON: But I know you've been watching this impeachment investigation very closely. What do think they're looking for or what are you looking for? KASICH: I think what they're looking for is the clear evidence, and
again, the quid pro quo.
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: What are you looking for?
KASICH: Same thing. That's what I'm looking for. Look, I think it should be wide open, Don. You and I, I know how you feel about it, but they ought to have a vote on impeachment inquiry in the House. I don't know why they're not doing it. There ought to be some rules and some standards for the minority like what happened when Clinton was there and let the chip falls where they may. Open it up. Don't hide it. Don't be secret. And have the impeachment inquiry.
Because I think, Don, at the end of the day, you can't -- if you don't have that, the president is going to stall and he's going to argue with those people. See they're not fair. Just wipe hat out. Seize the high moral ground. I've told the Democratic congressman that yesterday, I'd tell Nancy that if I saw her.
LEMON: You say that Republicans need to think about how they would like to be remembered. Why do you say that, John?
KASICH: Because we should all think about how we want to be remembered and to just sit there and not answer the question. Think about this. Do you think it's wrong that the president of the United States called a leader of another country and was digging up dirt on his opponent? And they ask you that question and you go, I don't know.
I mean, come on, the answer is of course it's wrong. It is wrong if it was Reagan. It's wrong if it was Clinton. It's wrong if it was Obama, and it's wrong if it's Trump. And Don, this is one that is a mystery for me. I don't get it. No one is even asking the, are you for an impeachment inquiry, which I'm for. They're not even willing to say that it's wrong. And to me, it's bizarre.
[22:30:00]
LEMON: So, the only thing that we disagree on, this was last time I don't think people understood that I, on the transcript.
KASICH: Yes
LEMON: I think the transcript -- I think the evidence is there. You don't think it's quite there, but --
KASICH: I think, what he did was absolutely terrible. But is it a question of removing him? And we can agree and disagree on --
LEMON: Well, that's what I don't understand, because you were saying, you didn't think the transcript, but you think asking was --
KASICH: It was totally wrong. But I would like to see the quid pro quo.
LEMON: OK. All right.
KASICH: But we'll see what else comes out. We are in the beginning and we can go back and forth, it's when the beginning of a movie, but I want all the facts.
LEMON: OK.
KASICH: That's why I want the inquiry and I want it open.
LEMON: Debate. Let's get to the debate. Your home state which you are not there, because you got a book.
KASICH: Sure.
LEMON: There is a new poll showing no career leader, Warren at 30, Biden is at 27, Sanders is at third and 11. Do you think tomorrow could be a make or break, so, too early, what do you?
KASICH: To early now. And I heard you talking to Chris, I mean, I think if Warren drops out, the ball (inaudible), and I think he's right that that support is going to go to Elizabeth Warren --
LEMON: You mean Warren -- if Sanders drops out.
KASICH: -- drops out. Yes, that's what I meant. It will go to Warren. In terms of Joe Biden, you know, he's still in it and I don't think you can count him out. But you know, he's had a tough flawed here for the last few weeks and not because of the Ukraine thing. He just had a tougher time, but he's still very viable.
LEMON: How does impeachment play tomorrow? Because, I mean, (inaudible) --
KASICH: Well, they're all going to say that Trump should be impeach. So, they will all say the same thing. There will be nobody saying, no.
LEMON: Yes. This will be Sanders' first since the heart attack. What do you think he needs to do tomorrow?
KASICH: Be vigorous, but I think his time has come and gone. I mean, I think really the last time (ph).
LEMON: Really?
KASICH: Yes, he's best shots was against Hillary and did not work. And he still has attracted lots of people. He's brought, you know, a lot of young people into politics and that's been a good thing. But I don't think he was ever in it this time.
LEMON: Obama carried Ohio twice. Trump beats Hillary by eight points. Si Ohio --
KASICH: And I beat Trump by like, 14 points, so the primary.
LEMON: Is this still a battleground state then? KASICH: I think it is, Don. The reason why Republicans have done
better is because the situation in Ohio has improve. I mean, unemployment is down, people had more healthcare than what they had in the past. And you know, I think, people feel pretty good about Ohio so why change the sauce? But we will see. If Democrats talk about wages and healthcare cost which are going through the roof for everybody then I think they have a pretty good shot.
LEMON: All right. Thanks for joining us.
KASICH: That's --
(LAUGHTER)
LEMON: Let's talk about this. It is up to us, 10 little ways we can bring about big change. So, you say the most powerful moment starts from the bottom up.
KASICH: Sure. Civil rights. When in suffrage.
LEMON: Let's talk about movement. What did that say, March movement?
KASICH: Well, movements or look -- this book is really a manifesto about how you can get your power back and how you can affect change where you live. And it is not just political change, it's living a life a little bigger than yourself. This is exactly the things that you and I both believe in, fighting for what you believe in. When you see an injustice, try to correct it. When you see that something that is not kind. Be kind. We change the country this way.
Think about the Parkland students. In Florida, there's no way they would have done gun control, had those students -- those brave students fought for it. Think about Greta Thunberg, who is out there on the environmental issues, she's created a worldwide movement at the age of 15. This way, that's what matters and when people wring their hands and what about Trump and all this? I understand that. Don't just sit back and wait for the election. It is where you live, it's where you work, it's what you do.
LEMON: OK, so this is why people get upset sometimes when they think I question them too harsh and maybe you as well.
KASICH: No. You question me as harshly as you be.
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: I really want to hear from you. I don't think -- I think there are moments in history and where there is offense sitting, where you have to take a stand where you want. Just as people wanted Trump, they wanted someone to come in and shake up Washington. They didn't want someone who sits on offense and say, well. So, how do you do that and then still do what you say, you know, give people -- because this is an offense sitting moment. You have to take a stand at this moment.
KASICH: Well, for me, I have (inaudible), you know, and I've done with Trump, on the one Republican in the country that stood up against more than anybody. I have done that -- pardon?
LEMON: Do you write about it?
KASICH: No, because I don't want this to be a political book. I want people to feel like that they can get their power back that they can live a life bigger than themselves. That they are special. That there is nobody ever been like Don Lemon or never be anybody like you again. And you know what? No, you know what, you were made for a purpose. So, you got to find it and you got to carry it out.
Because, Don, I really believe that the end of the day, the people in this country are in charge. And I understand we are going through an unbelievable time now, but ultimately what will save us in this country with the folks themselves in the communities, in their homes, in the streets. That's what will saves us.
[22:35:04]
LEMON: Quickly, the number one thing people can be? Because you said, people can do to change their lives, what's the number one thing?
KASICH: Put yourself in somebody else's shoes. Walk in their shoes for a little bit and be kind.
LEMON: That's what I always say.
KASICH: That's the number one thing.
LEMON: I always say be curious and more curious and less judgement.
KASICH: Get out of your silo too. Don't be just absorbing things that you agree with. Neither you nor I should do that either.
LEMON: Well, I spent the weekend in the red state.
(CROSSTALK)
KASICH: because you were hoping somebody was going to call you on the field and that you could have a glorious catch and run into the end zone and everybody would carried you off.
LEMON: I have not had a better time in a long time.
KASICH: You know Don, we've had -- we've been doing this for a long time and I think it is really good. And sometimes we fight and sometimes we don't. But it is never personal. It's great. Thank you. And you got that cold and you're not giving it to me. I'm going to use some hand sanitizer.
LEMON: It is not a cold. It is just exhausted and I have been flying a lot lately.
KASICH: All right.
LEMON: Thank you, John. Always a pleasure.
KASICH: Don, thank you.
LEMON: There is this book, by John Kasich, it's called, It is up to you, 10 little ways that we can bring about big change. Or so you may -- you know --
KASICH: Check it out. Come on, flack it a little bit.
LEMON: It is up to us.
I know. They got it. It is up to us! Here is the book, go get it. John Kasich wrote it. I will see you later.
KASICH: All right, thanks to you.
LEMON: And the countdown is on. CNN's Democratic presidential debate live from --
KASICH: Ohio.
LEMON: -- tomorrow night at 8:00 p.m. --
KASICH: OH, Ohio.
LEMON: -- right here on CNN. We'll be right back.
KASICH: You are a nut.
[22:40:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: And I take this segment. This is really an important story that you might have missed. OK? It is shocking and it's sad. White police officer fatally shot an African-American woman inside her Fort Worth home on Saturday night. There is heavily edited body cam footage from the police department showing what happened when the officer arrive at Atatiana Jefferson's house after a concerned neighbor call for police to check and see if she was OK.
Well, that officer, that police officer resigned this morning and tonight there is more breaking news on this tragic case to tell you about. I want to bring in Lucy Kafanov who's in Fort Worth tonight. Lucy, I appreciate you joining us. Law enforcement just held a press conference there, what's the latest? What did they say?
LUCY KAFANOV, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Don, well, we just got out of that press briefing. It is fascinating to see just how quickly the story unfolded this morning. Aaron Dean, that police officer had quit the Fort Worth Police Department. Depriving officers of a chance to properly question him.
Now, we have confirmed that the presser behind me, he is behind bars accused of murdering, 28-year-old Atatiana Jefferson in her own home. I know you played that footage, that dramatic edited video, but the heaviest evidence against him just might be that body cam footage. You see the officer searching outside of the home. You see, Aaron Dean, that officer noticing something through a darken
window, he points the flashlight there, he shouts put up your hand, he does not identify himself as a police officer and he fires. Two seconds, Don. That is how long it took to go from a verbal command to deadly force. Two seconds.
Moments later a 28 years old woman was dead and her eight year-old nephew is traumatized and the community here, torn apart. Now, we haven't gotten any comment or information from Aaron Dean himself. I can tell you, he is a rookie cop, he graduated from the Fort Worth Police Academy about two years ago, joining the force last April. That is all we know about him so far.
The interim police chief is supposed to hold another press conference tomorrow. We know they are launching a criminal investigation. The FBI has been alerted to a potential civil rights investigation. But at this point, you can tell the department is trying to be transparent, because this is now the 9th officer involved shooting in Fort Worth. Seven of those shootings, Don, are deadly.
LEMON: Lucy Kafanov, reporting to us from Fort Worth. Thank you, Lucy.
Joining me now from Dallas, Atatiana Jefferson's brother, Adarius Carr, and Lee Merritt, who is representing the family in this matter. Thank you both so much for joining us. Adarius, so sorry for your loss. Listen, I won't even ask how your family is doing tonight, because I know it is tough. And I can't even imagine. But we thank you for joining us and we know that you called today for Officer Dean to be arrested and tonight we know he is being held on murder charges. What is your reaction to that?
ADARIUS CARR, ATATIANA'S BROTHER: Yes, Don. Thank you for having me. He did get what I wanted him to get. And this is only a start. There is no way this is enough. We know this is a good step in that direction though, where we want to go, but it is definitely not the end.
LEMON: You want justice.
CARR: Absolutely. Demand it. It has to happen.
LEMON: So I would not ask you how your family is doing, but how has this affected you guys?
CARR: We slowly, but surely starting to allow ourselves to feel the emotion that we should be feeling right now. The case itself has been a whirlwind. Slowly, but surely we are -- allowing us to feel. It has been a lot, it has been quite a bit of -- today itself has been -- I am speechless about it. I can't put it into words.
[22:45:13]
LEMON: I understand.
Lee, here we go again with, you know, another one of these cases. You have been on the show before and I have seen you in other media. Fort Worth police have presented a preliminary case for the FBI, for civil rights violations -- for civil rights violation, but you and the family are calling for an independent criminal investigation, do you know if that is going to happen?
LEE MERRITT, ATTORNEY FOR FAMILY OF ATATIANA JEFFERSON: Well, I can tell you that the city of Fort Worth is unique in allowing its own department to investigate its own officers. And we've just learned in a trial last week for Amber Guyger, the murderer of Botham Jean that when you had officers who worked with the officers testifying in those trials, who lead the investigations, they put their thumbs in the scale of justice.
So, it is the appropriate thing to happen whether or not Fort Worth will do that will depend on how invested this community remains and calling for justice. Now, I want to make no mistake about it.
The results that you see coming in is because of the national pressure, it is because of the act in the streets, it is because of the people who have been organizing within the city of Fort Worth and all around the country, demanding justice in this case. And those people are just going to have to keep pushing along with this family.
LEMON: Lee, Aaron Dean did not identify himself as a police officer and shot Atatiana through a window that could -- what could possibly justify that?
MERRITT: There is no real justification for that. There never will be. Unfortunately, in the American judicial system, we have seen cops get away with things -- they are completely unjustifiable to (inaudible) playing with a toy gun in a park, they perceive threats, we often see law enforcement perceiving threat from the most mundane things that black people are doing and justifying the use of deadly force. And so, while this is a start, we know that there is a long road to a prosecution, a conviction and an appropriate sentence.
LEMON: Adarius. Your eight year-old nephew who was very close to Atatiana witnessed her being shot and killed. Is he able to understand all of this? What's going on with him?
CARR: Zion, is a very smart child. (Inaudible), he is very wise of his little eight years. We have noticed things about him to changed, but he is as strong one. The (inaudible), I know, we'll give him the treatment that he needs to make sure that he's good, but I can't describe how he could have seen or what he have heard. Or what anybody -- I would be affected by it. But he's doing strong. We believe in him.
LEMON: Adarius, our regards to your family, thank you so much. Lee, please come back and keep us updated on this, OK? Thank you both.
MERRITT: Of course, Don. Thanks for having us.
CARR: Thank you for having us.
LEMON: We'll be right back. [22:50:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: President Trump announcing tonight that he is imposing sanctions on Turkey and sending Vice President Mike Pence to Ankara to negotiate a deal between Turkey and the Kurds. But it was his decision last week to remove U.S. troops from northeast Syria that opened the door for Turkey to attack our Kurdish allies and throw the region into chaos.
Joining me now, Steve Hall. Steve, is the former chief of CIA Russian operations. Good to have you on. Thank you, sir. Let me just get your reaction to the breaking news. You see the move to send Mike Pence to Turkey as a reaction to all of these backlash the president has been getting?
STEVE HALL, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: You know, Don, it's hard to imagine how this could have been handled worse. And I think right now the administration is seems just to be, you know, sort of in a reaction mode. I mean, the damage that these moves in Syria and with the Turkish government are doing to U.S. credibility.
For our ability to be a geopolitical power is juts -- I mean, it's going to impact not just now, not just our allies. But it's going to -- I'm afraid it will reach the point in which it's going to reverberate, you know, years and years into the future. So, it's just -- it's a bad situation. One that sanctions and you know, business by the vice president are really not going to help.
LEMON: CNN's Jim Acosta, reported just a couple hours ago that senior administration officials has said there is good evidence that some ISIS detainees have been released and are now at large. Has the president's decision to pull out of northeastern Syria made Americans less safe?
HALL: Absolutely. I mean, there is no doubt that there's now a greater chance for an attack on the homeland or an attack on Americans serving abroad. Whether in military or diplomatic posts or just traveling abroad. Is greater than it was just a couple days ago. And you know, you can say that that's going to outlandish. You know, is ISIS going to attack the homeland, I think the president said something ridiculous like we're 7,000 miles away.
You know, the day before 9/11 happen. If you had said, you know, a bunch barely literate Al Qaeda guys are going to able to, you know, hijacked three airplanes and used them as weapons in the United States that would have sounded whacko too. So, I don't think its all whacko to think that you know, ISIS is now, you know, in a regrowth period or soon will be.
[22:55:00]
And because of the actions of this administration, it's because of the action of this president, I believe our national security is significantly less than it was just a few days ago. LEMON: Steve, thank you for your time. I appreciate it.
The president's former top Russia adviser testifying for over 10 hours behind closed doors today. We are going to bring you all the new details we are learning about the House's impeachment inquiry, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: This is CNN TONIGHT. I'm Don Lemon.
