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Don Lemon Tonight

People Are Divided On Impeaching President Trump; House To Vote On Impeachment This Wednesday; GOP And Dems Fight Over Witnesses Ahead Of Senate Trial; Rudy Giuliani Admits Role In Ousting U.S. Ambassador To Ukraine; James Comey: Real Sloppiness In Carter Page FISA Warrants; President Trump Has Made 15,413 False Or Misleading Claims Over 1,055 Days. Aired 10-11p ET

Aired December 16, 2019 - 22:00 ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[22:00:00]

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST: All right, let's get to "CNN TONIGHT" with D. Lemon right now.

DON LEMON, CNN HOST: Who used to say this all the time? "Come on, man."

CUOMO: No, they say it now. Deion Sanders started saying it.

LEMON: Yes.

CUOMO: And now they have a whole segment on it, about football game.

LEMON: That was - that was President Obama. He used to say it all the time. The only reason I'm saying that--

CUOMO: Well he took it from Deion.

LEMON: --is because he must have been watching me when TMZ caught up with me. And I said that to them, I think it was like a year ago. And I got eaten up by the right. CNN host says more women should run for president because they are the smartest of the sexes. I've been saying that forever. Did you see that headline?

CUOMO: You think that you are the originator of the idea that women have advantages in leadership over men?

LEMON: Women are the more evolved, the most evolved of the sexes.

CUOMO: You said it to be P.C. Obama said it with integrity.

LEMON: They are the smartest. Just ask Christina Cuomo. She will tell you.

CUOMO: I think what they do better is the more important the decision, very often how you feel and how you think have to be married in a way that I don't think men do as well as women. I think what we've learned is the more opportunity you give women, the more they show that what we used to think were masculine advantages don't really exist. LEMON: Yes.

CUOMO: You know, if women are exposed to stems, you know, to science and technology, they do just as well or better than men.

LEMON: Well, I happen to have grown up in a household with mostly women.

CUOMO: Yes.

LEMON: A single mom at times, stretching a penny into a dollar, right? Women have been running the households, taking care of the bills, running businesses, running businesses from home while the men think they're actually running it.

So, I think women rule the world, and I don't care if people criticize me. And especially, listen, I think women have been carrying the black community on their shoulders for centuries. And so, you know, for me, I think they're the best.

CUOMO: So, here's the question.

LEMON: And I'm not just saying that.

CUOMO: Here's the question, philosopher.

LEMON: What?

CUOMO: Then why doesn't it happen? Why are they underrepresented in every way and undercounted?

LEMON: Because men want to mansplain, and they won't let go of power. It's the same thing. It's the same that we're seeing now with politics. Men won't let go. It's the same thing you're seeing now with --

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: Obama also said that. You're copying him.

LEMON: I didn't know that.

CUOMO: That's what he said.

LEMON: But men won't let go, but it's the same thing we're seeing now with the larger culture. They won't let go. It's the same thing we're seeing with the Trump folks. Right? With the older people. They won't let go. The country is becoming browner. And the people who are not browner they won't let go so they're fighting it. They're upset and they're mad. And so, it's the last vestiges of that people clinging to that sort of power.

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: You know what my concern is as we're raising our two daughters right now? Is that it can be difficult for women -- LEMON: You're outnumbered in that house by the way.

CUOMO: I am because Mario, he's a swing vote at best. The idea he's going to come on my side is very dicey.

LEMON: So, you know what I'm talking about.

CUOMO: You know what I worry about with them?

LEMON: Yes.

CUOMO: And you really feel this in school. The boys take all the time in class.

LEMON: Yes.

CUOMO: They get negative attention, positive attention, they answer all the questions, they get half of them wrong. It's hard for women to have to adjust sometimes to these systems that men have made that stink, and it often can bring them down. I think we see it in our politics.

LEMON: Yes.

CUOMO: You see women especially on the right adopting positions and postures that almost seem like a bad version of a man instead of being their better self because the system doesn't allow it. But I think we're going to see more and more of it going forward.

LEMON: But didn't Jake Tapper's daughter write a book about it?

CUOMO: So good, about how kids are in class. I got it for the kids. I mean, talk about talent running in a family.

LEMON: Yes.

CUOMO: You know, he's a beautiful writer. So, as his daughter, Alice.

LEMON: We're not talking about Jake. We're talking about her.

CUOMO: Sometimes it's nice to give a parent credit. You'll see. That will change with you when you start having some little ones.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: Jake will text me, I know.

CUOMO: All of a sudden, you'll be like, who do you think taught them? But it's very real, and it's a real challenge. I like the second question, why doesn't it stop? Why don't they get more opportunity? Why aren't they equally paid?

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: Because they won't let it go.

CUOMO: It's amazing that men come up with explanations to continue their wrongs.

LEMON: Yes. Speaking of letting it go, in my ear.

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: You know, it's the best part in the show by the way. It's the best part of my show, and it's the shortest part of both.

LEMON: And guess what?

CUOMO: And women are in control of both.

LEMON: hey are in control of both. Women are running both of our shows, and so there you go. I forgot what I was going to say, but, yes, women are running both of our shows.

CUOMO: That's true, Don. That's true.

LEMON: All right. See you.

CUOMO: Have a good night.

LEMON: You too.

This is CNN TONIGHT. I'm Don Lemon.

And we're on the verge of making history right now. The president of the United States all but certain to be impeached on Wednesday, a day from now really. It's almost Tuesday now. Only the third president to be impeached.

And how is he responding? Well, he's doing what he always does, just a lot more of it. Doubling down by -- he's doubling down with a provably false or misleading claim or claims.

The Washington Post reports he has made more than 15,400 false or misleading claims since he took the oath of office. And that's just as of last week.

[22:04:57]

But here's how you know how much impeachment is getting to him. The Post reports that October and November of this year were two of his lying-est months. And nearly 600 of those lies or those false or misleading claims are related to the Ukrainian investigation. I guess his strategy is if you don't like the facts, just make something up.

But the president's Republican defenders aren't even trying to pretend that they're going to hold him accountable in any way, and they're being about as blatant as they can get. Rudy Giuliani, his loose cannon attorney, telling the New Yorker this about the ex-ambassador to Ukraine, quote, "I believe that I needed Yovanovitch out of the way. She was going to make the investigation difficult for everybody."

Part, I don't know, maybe one million in the never ending saga of Giuliani saying things that really don't help the president the way he seems to think they do. He flat-out admits -- he admits it right there, that he wanted Ambassador Marie Yovanovitch out because she was standing in the way of investigations the president wanted, investigation of Hunter Biden, and other discredited conspiracy theory that it was Ukraine, not Russia, that was behind election interference in 2016, the very investigations the president was trying to get when he leaned on Ukraine in the infamous July 25th phone call that set off the impeachment investigation.

When he said, quote, "I would like you to do us a favor, though, because our country has been through a lot and Ukraine knows a lot about it. I would like you to find out what happened with this whole situation with Ukraine. They say CrowdStrike. I guess you have one of your wealthy people. The server, they say Ukraine has it."

And then this. "There's a lot of talk about Biden's son, that Biden stopped the prosecution. A lot of people want to find out about that, so whatever you can do with the attorney general would be great."

Now we have Rudy Giuliani with what appears to be the very first time someone explicitly linked the ambassador's removal to those bogus investigations. That seems like a pretty big deal, doesn't it, right? The president's attorney admitting he wanted the ambassador out of the way so he could get the investigations the president wanted, admitting it right after his return from yet another sketchy mission to Ukraine. Seems like something the president would want to hear all about, doesn't it?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How much has Giuliani shared with you about his recent trip to Ukraine?

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Not too much.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Not too much? I thought he had a whole lot. Let's remember the Wall Street Journal reported Friday that while Giuliani was on his way back from Ukraine, while his plane was still taxiing down the runway, the president called to ask him, what did you get? Hey, what did you get? Rudy replied, more than you can imagine.

Let's remember the president, more than a week ago, said this about Rudy Giuliani's adventures in Ukraine.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: He says he has a lot of good information. I hear he's found plenty.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: OK? So, which is it? Wait a minute. I got a lot of good information or not too much? In any case, the president would like you to know exactly why Giuliani does whatever the heck he is doing.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: He does this out of love, believe me. He does it out of love. He knows what he's doing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: He does it out of love. It's love. He just loves it. Loves it and him and the country. He just does it out of love. And then there's this. The president's number one fan in the Senate, Lindsey Graham, who really takes the cake when it comes to being a blatant partisan.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): I am trying to give a pretty clear signal I have made up my mind. I'm not trying to pretend to be a fair juror here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Not even trying to pretend to be a fair juror. With an impeachment trial looming in the Senate in a matter of weeks. And make no mistake, senators will the jurors in that trial. Each and every one of them swearing to, quote, "do impartial justice according to the Constitution and laws."

And yet Lindsey Graham blatantly says that he is not even trying to pretend to be a fair juror. At least he's honest about that. Though things sure have changed since Bill Clinton's impeachment trial 20 years ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GRAHAM: If a Republican president had done these things, would a Republican delegation gone to tell him to get out of town? I hope so.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Well, it sure doesn't look like any Republicans are going to tell this president to get out of town.

[22:09:59]

And then there's the question of whether senators will let any witnesses testify in the trial. Chuck Schumer says that he wants to hear from four current and former officials including Mick Mulvaney and John Bolton.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY), SENATE MINORITY LEADER: There is no reason on God's green earth why they shouldn't be called and testify unless you're afraid of what they might say.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Well, the Republicans are pretty blatant about that too. They don't want to hear from witnesses.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Schumer has asked for hearing from Bolton and Mulvaney. Do you have any desire to hear from them in the Senate trial?

SEN. RICHARD BURR (R-NC): Nope.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Nope. Elevated doors. No, no, no. That from Senate intel chairman Richard Burr, who seemed to value a bipartisan approach, until now anyway. Wonder how Republicans would feel if, just for an example, a Democratic president were being impeached. If only we had some idea how they felt about witnesses during, say, the Clinton impeachment.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY), MAJORITY LEADER: Every other impeachment has had witnesses. It's not unusual to have witnesses in a trial, and I think we're handling this in exactly the appropriate way under the Constitution, and it will end soon.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Always videotape for everything, right? Well, I guess that was then. This is now. Speaking of Mitch McConnell, speaking of blatantly siding with the president no matter what, let's not forget this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MCCONNELL: I'm coordinating with White House counsel. There will be no difference between the president's position and our position as to how to handle this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Yes, that is pretty blatant all right. Let's face it. It's a message to an audience of one.

We have a brand new CNN poll. It finds the country may be even more deeply divided on impeachment than you thought.

Governor John Kasich -- there he is right there -- weighs in next.

[22:15:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: So, the House all but certain to vote Wednesday to impeach the president followed by a trial in the Senate next month. That as a brand-new CNN impeachment poll finds the country about evenly split on whether he should be impeached and removed from office.

Let's discuss with former Ohio Governor John Kasich is here. John, good to see you my friend.

JOHN KASICH, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Don, good to see you.

LEMON: Let's talk about this brand-new CNN poll tonight. Forty-five percent say President Trump should be impeached and removed. Forty- seven percent opposed to that. That is within the margin of error, in line with the polls that we have seen recently, where we see, you know, that about half the country wants him impeached and removed and so on and so forth. What do you think?

KASICH: The Fox poll actually showed more people, like half the country supporting it, so it's very, very close. Well, we're very divided, Don. The thing that amazes me, the discussion now that's going on on Capitol Hill if you watch any of these hearings is, you know, whether you think that Donald Trump should be impeached or whether he should be censured or whatever, I'm amazed at the people who say he didn't do anything wrong at all.

You know, how is it possible when he's making a call to a foreign leader and saying, investigate my political opponent. You can't say it didn't happen. You can't say it didn't exist. But if you listen to a number of the people right now on Capitol Hill in the Republican Party, they kind of say there's nothing wrong here.

And maybe they're not going to go for impeachment. Maybe they're not going to go for a censure, but just to ignore reality seems to be awfully crazy. So I brought you another little chart.

LEMON: My God.

KASICH: Which I guess our viewers like, OK? So, it's back to another triangle. I want to just --

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: We have it up on the screen. We've got it up on the full screen. Go for it.

KASICH: Well, you didn't ruin my artwork.

LEMON: No. We have yours.

KASICH: You have people live -- OK. They live in a silo, right?

LEMON: Yes

KASICH: We have people that live in a silo. They only -- they only absorb that that they agree with.

LEMON: OK.

KASICH: And then their views are reinforced by social media and reinforcing media. So, they only get information that reinforces their view.

LEMON: Right. KASICH: They never find the truth because the truth is not a matter

of opinion. The truth is a fact. And so, when you wonder how does this happen, it's because people are in silos. They only read and they only hear things and they only hang out with people who tell them they're right, and that's why they just can't even admit any of the facts at all. And the truth always escapes them. What do you think of that?

LEMON: Well, I think you're right, but the thing is, is how do you get them out of the silo? How do you get them out of their -- can we put the thing back up there? You said they live in a silo.

KASICH: They live in a silo.

LEMON: And then their social --

(CROSSTALK)

KASICH: And all they do is pay attention to social media that agrees with them or --

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: And then --

KASICH: -- reinforcing media.

LEMON: -- reinforce with media.

KASICH: Yes.

LEMON: So then how do you --

KASICH: Yes, the regular media. You know, television, newspapers.

LEMON: Yes.

KASICH: They have to decide they want to try to find the truth. And if you live in a silo, guess what? You're pretty uninteresting, and you're pretty boring, and you are unwilling to test what you think because I guess you're afraid to go out and say, well, maybe I was wrong. And I have circumstances --

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: OK. OK. But then isn't that -- but isn't that --

KASICH: Yes.

LEMON: But isn't that a failure of leadership because the leaders in the Republican Party should know the truth.

KASICH: Yes.

LEMON: And they're not telling their constituents. Don't they have an obligation to tell their constituents the truth because then they're misleading people because they want to be -- KASICH: Well -- the interesting -- they want to be re-elected, and we

can get to that in the future here. But basically, Don, when they go, if they give any hint of the fact that they'd be wondering about this, then they get hammered by social media.

[22:20:03]

They get attacked viciously on social media, and then they get called out by, you know --

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: Yes, but who cares. I get hammered by social media all the time.

KASICH: -- by the media that they usually pay attention to.

LEMON: You get hammed by. Do you really care?

KASICH: Don? Don?

LEMON: I mean, it's not -- nobody cares. Why do I care?

KASICH: Don, no. Guess what, Don? You're not everybody else. Your mama raised you a certain way so you can be open to other ideas. That's why when we were on here the other night, you pointed out that the FBI had made mistakes according to the Horowitz report. You didn't put your head in the sand. You actually listened to it and thought it, and I believe you're capable of changing an opinion.

I'm capable of changing an opinion, but we were raised to get our head out of the sand. We were raised to listen to other points of view. That is not happening today, so in the Republican Party when you watch those hearings, these people wouldn't even criticize that phone call. How is -- it's crazy. So, they're not going to discover the truth, and the truth sets you free as you know.

LEMON: But all I'm saying is -- listen, I get going back to, you know, a town hall, you know, in your town and you've got to face your constituents, and you should welcome that even if they're yelling at you. And even if they're yelling at you, like Justin Amash did, you've got to say, listen, guys. What he did or whatever, he's done some things that are impeachable. I got to tell you -- I'm sorry.

KASICH: Yes.

LEMON: I got to tell you that was wrong. Our leaders shouldn't be doing that. I got to tell you, blah, blah, blah. You have to do that if you're a leader. I don't understand this --

(CROSSTALK)

KASICH: Well --

LEMON: Here's what I don't understand. Why do you care what some stranger says about you on social media? No one gives a crap, and you don't have -- and you don't have to be on social media.

KASICH: He care a lot.

LEMON: Get off social media. Who cares?

KASICH: They care -- no, but they care a lot because they're afraid at the end of the day if they get hammered over there, they might lose. Now, if you take the guy up in New Jersey who said he's going to switch parties. LEMON: OK.

KASICH: He said he's going to switch parties because everybody was yelling at him and he's realized --

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: He's going to switch parties because he can't win as a Democrat. He's not switching parties because of impeachment. He's switching parties because he wants a job.

(CROSSTALK)

KASICH: Because he can't --

LEMON: That's why he's switching parties.

KASICH: Well, that gets down to careerism.

LEMON: Yes. That's why they switch --

KASICH: That gets down to the fact that some people want job security at the risk of all other things. Now, Don, we can't really hammer them because we got our faults. They got their faults. But to me, it's about the truth. And if you can't open your mind to what the truth is, the truth is not relative. The truth is a fact.

LEMON: Right. I agree.

KASICH: And I'm just saying to you in our country today, not with just our leaders, but with the public, too many of them living in a silo. All of us tend to live in silos. We need to get out.

LEMON: All right. Let's get back to this poll. Because we're sitting here and talking like we're having a beer --

KASICH: Yes.

LEMON: -- and I think people are get freaked out by it, but who knows. Maybe they like it.

KASICH: No. I don't. I think they like it.

LEMON: OK. So, let's talk about this --

(CROSSTALK)

KASICH: I may be in my own silo here.

LEMON: So, in our CNN poll, if you break down by gender, right, in November, 61 percent of women supported Trump being impeached and removed. That is down to 51 percent now. For men, it has pretty much stayed the same from 40 percent and 38 percent. But a majority of women still support impeachment. What does that -- what does that say to you? I say that women are going to be the deciding factor in the elections, especially suburban white women and black women overall.

KASICH: Well, to me, Don, it's about -- it's not just about the policy. It's about -- it's about the culture. What women don't like is all this yelling and screaming.

LEMON: Yes.

KASICH: I don't like it either, but I think they're particularly sensitive to it, and they're concerned about issues like health care because this health care stuff is really hard on a lot of families.

And I think that women are, you know, obviously they feel under the gun when it comes to health care. I'm not saying that men don't, but they -- you know, in many respects, they're the ones going to the doctor. They're the ones looking at the bills, and I think this is really big.

Now, the poll that was out just a couple days ago showed independent support going up. So, I believe that as more -- I've always said as more and more information comes out, then I think it will be change things.

However, Don, I hate to go back to the triangle again. But if you're in a silo, no matter what they say, they don't -- they don't believe it. Here's what I'm saying. They go, well, that's just fake news. That's just false.

LEMON: Yes.

KASICH: And that is dangerous for our country. And that's why we're so divided. If people could just look at the other side, respect the other side, listen to the other side, and that's what it used to be in Congress. You bring up the leaders in Congress.

One of the problems we have with our leaders in Congress is they're not telling the people that work with them to grow up, be mature, knock it off, stop. This is not what it means to be a member of Congress.

LEMON: Yes. Well, you're right because a lot of folks there, you can see it in the hearings, they want their moments. They want the moments that are going to, you know, viral moments for social media or people at home will see them or the president will see them and give them an attaboy.

[22:25:03]

And it's just not -- it's not mature. It's not classy. It's just -- yes. You know what I'm saying. I got to go though, John. I appreciate it.

KASICH: Yes.

LEMON: I'll see you soon. Thank you.

KASICH: All right, sir. Thank you.

LEMON: I like the triangle. You need some art --

(CROSSTALK)

KASICH: Merry Christmas.

LEMON: You need some art classes, though.

The House is just days away from voting on impeachment, but senators are already battling. Will there be witnesses at the trial, and if so, who might be called?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[22:29:58]

LEMON: Mitch McConnell and Chuck Schumer are clashing over President Trump's inevitable impeachment trial. Schumer is demanding witnesses, four of them, but McConnell says, it won't happen. Even though he argued four exactly that during the last impeachment. That was back in 1999. Here to discuss, Susan Hennessey and Michael Gerhardt. Good evening to both of you.

MICHAEL GERHARDT, LEGAL ANALYST: Hi.

LEMON: Thank you so much for joining us. So, Susan, let's talk about this. I'm going to take you back to -- this is back, right? President Andrew Johnson's Senate impeachment trial lasted 87 days. President Bill Clinton's lasted for 37 days. If McConnell has his way, how long will President Trump's last? Probably not even a day, but how long do you think it will last, if he had his druthers?

SUSAN HENNESSEY, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY AND LEGAL ANALYST: Look, McConnell clearly wants to avoid this whole thing entirely. I don't know that it necessarily, you know, needs to be the exact same number of days, you know, as past president. The problem with the position of people like Mitch McConnell is just the level of whiplash. We've heard over the past several weeks Republicans in the House arguing over and over again about how this was going too fast. There wasn't sufficient facts finding. We didn't have enough of the facts on the table. We needed more.

And now just weeks later we're seeing Republicans saying no, no, no. The House had its chance. We don't want to hear from anybody else. We've already made up our minds. And so, you know, I think that's the kind of sort of, you know, a shift and whiplash shift that, you know, voters can understand exactly what's going on here, and that's not a message that's going to be easy even for Mitch McConnell to sell. LEMON: Here's what -- Michael, here's what the Minority Leader Chuck

Schumer is calling for. Let me get my list here. Four witnesses to testify including Mulvaney and Bolton. Republicans are saying it's not the Senate's job to do any fact-finding. But shouldn't Republicans want to hear any potential exculpatory evidence from firsthand witnesses?

GERHARDT: I don't think they do. I think they're going to -- odds are they're going to go with what the president wants, which is essentially to shut down any further inquiry. And I would guess the Republicans will also argue that based on whatever the House sent over, there's not enough information there to even warrant any further investigation.

So, they'll shut it down. I think calling witnesses for the Republicans is simply opening up a Pandora's Box for them, and it's going to produce a lot of unpredictability. That's the last thing they want. They want to be able to keep this under control and that means keep it short.

HENNESSEY: And Don, you know, I do think that the tell here, is they don't think Mulvaney's testimony is actually going to be exculpatory. You know, if Republicans genuinely believe that these were witnesses that were going to come forward and tell you a story that was favorable to the president, you know, it sort of -- it strains belief that they would be fighting this hard to prevent their testimony.

It strains belief that the White House would have been fighting as hard as it has thus far. I think it's a pretty clear indication that the Republicans know that whatever story these White House officials might have to tell under oath, it's not going to be one that's particularly helpful to their cause.

LEMON: OK. Article 1, section 3 of the constitution, Michael, clause 6, says Senators need to take a special oath for the impeachment proceedings. Here's what part of that oath sounds like. This is 1999, the Clinton trial.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You will do impartial justice according to the constitution and laws, so help you god.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Impartial justice. So it sounds like Senator Lindsey Graham and the Majority Leader McConnell are violating that oath, no?

GERHARDT: Well, they are not impartial, and to be frank, I think a lot of people come into that room -- a lot of Senators come into that room already leaning pretty heavily one way or another. The critical thing is they don't typically admit that out loud, and they don't typically admit, as the majority leader did, that he's going to do everything in coordination with the president.

LEMON: I was just going to interject and cut you off and say, but they don't usually say it before, but go on.

GERHARDT: But yes, and it's unprecedented to have a Senate majority leader say in an impeachment trial that he's going to do everything -- that's his word -- everything in coordination with the president. The Senate is an independent institution, and I would have hoped that the Senate majority leader would be protecting the Senate's institutional prerogatives rather than give the president whatever he wants.

LEMON: Susan, Graham has said, you know, that's what he's been alluding to. Graham says that he has made up his mind already. McConnell says he is coordinating with the White House. That's shameless. There's no other way to put it.

HENNESSEY: Yes, look, its two Senators that are not even a little bit concerned with preserving the appearance of legitimacy. Look, this is clearly a political calculation, one that they've decided, you know, is going to be the thing that's going to favor them in their upcoming elections. I do think it will be interesting to see some Senators that are in a slightly different position, people like Susan Collins, Cory Gardner, people who actually do have -- are facing tough upcoming races and might be more inclined to want to do things, provide those 51 votes in order to say, look, you know, maybe we voted to acquit ultimately, but we did push for a fair process, for a legitimate process, and we did take that oath seriously and we strove to uphold it.

[22:35:11]

LEMON: Susan, Michael, thank you very much. I appreciate it.

GERHARDT: Thank you.

LEMON: Rudy Giuliani admitting today that he needed the ambassador to Ukraine, quote, out of the way, and he got what he wanted. We'll go overseas for a report on what else Rudy's been up to in Ukraine.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: President Trump is on the verge of impeachment over his Ukraine pressure campaign, but that hasn't stopped his personal attorney, Rudy Giuliani, from continuing his bogus investigations and pushing debunked conspiracy theories about the Bidens. But his so- called fact-finding mission is being condemned by anti-corruption activists in Ukraine, and CNN's Fred Pleitgen followed the story from Ukraine to Moscow. Fred?

[22:40:00]

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi there, Don. Yes, the president's personal attorney, Rudy Giuliani, still very much at it in Ukraine, still trying to dig up dirt on the Bidens there. Now, there's a lot of anti-corruption groups inside that country who are extremely concerned at some of the things that Rudy Giuliani has been doing there. However, Kremlin-controlled media here in Russia are having a field day. Here's what we're learning.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PLEITGEN: Rudy Giuliani's continued efforts to dig up dirt on the Bidens in Ukraine are disgusting, some anti-corruption groups in that country.

DARIA KALENIUK, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR ANTAC: It's not search for truth. It's actually continued spreading disinformation in the best tradition of Kremlin.

PLEITGEN: And it's music to the ears of Putin-controlled TV in Russia, who are eager to paint themselves as innocent despite the U.S. Intelligence community's conclusions about Russian election interference in 2016.

EVGENY POPOV, HOST (through translator): It turns out the State Department is wired to remove Trump's power and to stop the case of corrupt Biden from being investigated as Giuliani says.

PLEITGEN: Giuliani, who spoke with Trump last week after returning from a supposed fact-finding mission to Ukraine and other eastern European countries, tweeted this weekend a string of clips from pro- Trump, right-wing media outlet OAN, claiming to lay out his findings, which he says prove fraud by the energy company Burisma, which employed Joe Biden's son Hunter and alleges that then-Vice President Joe Biden had the Ukrainian prosecutor general investigating the case, Viktor Shokin, fired.

RUDY GIULIANI, ATTORNEY FOR PRESIDENT TRUMP: He will testify that he was investigating Biden's son. He will show you the documents to prove he was investigating Biden's son.

PLEITGEN: There is no evidence that Biden did anything wrong, and Giuliani is also refusing to acknowledge the clamor by European and American leaders alike at the time for Shokin to be fired due to his alleged corruption.

Ukraine's main anti-corruption action group, ANTAC, which has also been in Giuliani's crosshairs, tells CNN there was broad consensus that Shokin was ineffective and provided us with documents apparently showing that he actually hindered large parts of the investigation into Burisma.

KALENIUK: Under his leadership, prosecution is not reforming, and actually he is blocking the attempts to do the reforms and to perform proper investigations.

PLEITGEN: ANTAC says the same goes for Ukraine's next prosecutor general, Yuriy Lutsenko, another one of Rudolph Giuliani's proclaimed witnesses. Neither Shokin nor Lutsenko replied to CNN's efforts to contact him.

KALENIUK: Giuliani continues surrounding him as the most notorious corrupt people in Ukraine's bad reputation, who are helping defeat this disinformation.

PLEITGEN: And Kremlin controlled media is clearly gobbling up the message, portraying America as weak and Ukraine in disarray, but President Trump as the winner.

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PLEITGEN: And so, Don, you see that pattern that we often see from Russian state-controlled media where on the one hand they rip into the U.S., they rip into American institutions like Congress or like the State Department as well. Never really seem to criticize President Trump though.

On the other hand, again, difficult to overstate the amount of concern that we heard from former Ukrainian officials and also from those anti-corruption groups who are saying that some of the things that Rudy Giuliani has been doing are having a chilling effect on Ukraine's efforts to try and fight corruption and promote transparency, Don.

LEMON: Fred, thank you so much. Let's bring in Elie Honig, now. It's fascinating to watch that. Russia's really winning on this one, right?

ELIE HONIG, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yes.

LEMON: Yes. Giuliani is telling the New Yorker about the former U.S. Ambassador Marie Yovanovitch. And this is a quote. I believe that I needed Yovanovitch out of the way. She was going to make the investigations difficult for everybody. Stunning admission.

HONIG: It is. This is exactly the point that House Democrats were trying to drive home a couple weeks ago when they put on testimony from Marie Yovanovitch and others. The point was they needed -- Rudy Giuliani and Donald Trump needed to get rid of her, and the reason was she was known for her anti-corruption efforts in Ukraine, and she was standing in the way of this whole scheme that Rudy had cooked up. And now he just comes out today and tells us, yes, that's exactly why I got rid of her.

LEMON: Yes. Giuliani responding tonight on Fox. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GIULIANI: I didn't need her out of the way. I forced her out because she's corrupt.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HONIG: Well, he did need her out of the way. I mean where are we?

LEMON: She's corrupt? I mean --

HONIG: We're through the looking glass here. Can we all just as sane human beings agree that this whole notion that Donald Trump and Rudy Giuliani were this two-man international crime-busting duo is complete lunacy? Does anyone really believe that? I know some people are saying it because they have to, because it's the only innocent explanation for this whole thing.

But nobody believes that, right? What history other than Rudy in the 80s, but what history in the last 30 years does -- do either of them have of doing anything to truly combat corruption unless it involves in their view the Bidens? I had to say that.

(LAUGHTER)

[22:45:15]

LEMON: It's lunacy, right? It's just -- it's crazy.

HONIG: There seems to be this notion of Rudy's -- look, people roll their eyes at Rudy, and he's so out there now. It's sometimes hard to take him seriously, but let's not underestimate the damage he can do, right. He was the driving force behind this whole Ukraine effort. He's the person who has now led the president to the brink of impeachment.

LEMON: Thank you, Elie. I appreciate it.

HONIG: Thanks, Don.

LEMON: James Comey admitting that he was, quote, wrong about that Carter Page surveillance warrant. What he says went wrong and what former Director of National Intelligence James Clapper thinks about all of it. That's next.

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[22:50:00]

LEMON: Former FBI Director James Comey is admitting that procedures weren't followed when applying bureau investigators applied for surveillance warrants to investigate Trump campaign adviser -- a Trump adviser in 2016.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAMES COMEY, FORMER FBI DIRECTOR: I was wrong. I was over confident in the procedures that the FBI and Justice had built over 20 years. I thought they were robust enough. It's incredibly hard to get a FISA. I was over confident on those, because he's right.

It was real sloppiness, 17 things that should have been in the application or at least discussed and characterized differently. It's important that a leader be accountable and transparent. If I were still Director, I would be saying exactly the same thing that Chris Wray is saying which is, we are going to get to the bottom of this, be the most important question is, is it systemic? Are there problems in other cases?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Comey (inaudible) coming a week after the DOJ inspector general found that while the investigation was properly opened by the FBI. Errors were made in how the FISA warrant application were handled. Joining me now to discuss, James Clapper, the former Director of National Intelligence. Director, thank you so much. What's your reaction to Come's comments?

JAMES CLAPPER, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, first, Jim did something that doesn't happen in this time very often. Where he admitted publicly to a mistake. So, good on him for that. And I guess the mistake here is, you know, trusting in the procedures that I have always understood. I'm more familiar with the FISA authorization request that NSA does than the FBI's.

But I have always been under the impression that this is a very rigorous process. And overseen by the Department of Justice and scrubbed pretty hard by the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance court. So, somehow those procedures didn't work as I had thought they were. So, and I think, you know, Jim had the same feeling.

And I'm sure he, you know, he is thinking about that as -- as the Director at the time and it does worry me, I suspect this wasn't the one time case. And that there are probably comparable systemic issues with other such requests and I'm also pretty confident the Director Wray has stepped up pretty (inaudible) to make fixes.

LEMON: Let's talk about the president's personal attorney, shall we, Rudy Giuliani. He met with this client in the White House on Friday to discuss the findings from his fact finding mission to Ukraine to attempt to dig up dirt on the Bidens. You say Giuliani is acting on his own in Ukraine is creating a counter intelligence vulnerability. Is that correct? Do you believe that?

CLAPPER: Absolutely, Don. You know, he's apparently according to him, has collected a lot of good information. Air quotes. While I wonder how much of this information actually emanated from the Russians. Who undoubtedly would try to feed this narrative? You know, when they can point to Ukraine as interfering in the election of 2016 and divert attention away from them. You know, Putin is going to be happier than a pig in the sunshine about this, the way this is going.

So, I question the providence of this information because the Russians have strong motivations for feeding of false or fabricated information about you know, corruption or whatever it is he's gathered in Ukraine.

LEMON: Giuliani made a shocking admission in New Yorker telling the reporter Adam, I believe that I needed former U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine Yovanovitch out of the way. She was going to make the investigations difficult for everybody. Is he making the Democrats case for them? It doesn't get any more blatant than that.

CLAPPER: Well, at least in my mind he certainly is. I mean, this is -- you know, I hate to use -- we over use the word stunning. But this is really a stunning acknowledgment and even as the truth -- why would he acknowledge it publicly. I mean, it's just complicates to me, it just complicates things in the White House. And it's certainly I don't know, just -- it makes you wonder what on earth is he doing there.

LEMON: Yes. Director, thank you.

CLAPPER: Thanks, Don.

LEMON: Over 15,000 false and misleading claims, the president now passing that threshold. According to the Washington Post. And within impeachment vote looming the lies just seem to be coming faster and faster.

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[22:55:00]

LEMON: This is CNN TONIGHT. I'm Don Lemon. A lot to get to tonight. We are going to catch you up on all the headlines in the hour ahead. Donald Trump is about to become the third president in U.S. history to be impeached. The House expected to vote on Wednesday. So, what's the president doing on this historic week? Well, he's misleading, he's lying and distracting. We are going to break down all the gaslighting for you.

In a country divided, a new CNN poll out tonight shows voters are split on impeaching and removing Trump from office.