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Don Lemon Tonight

Pro-impeachment Rallies Seen In Cities And Towns; President Trump Attacks House Speaker Pelosi In A Scathing Letter; Inside Nancy Pelosi's Impeachment Balancing Act; Rudy Giuliani Says Trump Still Supports His Dirt-Digging In Ukraine; Army Unit Says It Regrets Social Media Post Featuring Nazi War Criminal. Aired 11p-12a ET

Aired December 17, 2019 - 23:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[23:00:00]

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DON LEMON, CNN HOST: This is CNN TONIGHT. I'm Don Lemon.

A lot to get to tonight and we're going to catch you up on all the headlines in the hour ahead.

In just a matter of hours President Trump is all but certain to become the third U.S. president to be impeached. All across the country tonight people are rallying in support of removing Trump from office. It's happening in big cities and small towns from coast to coast.

So how is the president dealing with this extraordinary and solemn moment in U.S. history? He is ranting and lying in a jaw dropping six- page letter to Nancy Pelosi.

The speaker is responding to Trump's letter tonight calling it ridiculous and really sick. She is a constant Trump target, in part, because tomorrow's historic vote wouldn't be happening without her.

Dana Bash has an in-depth look at Pelosi's power.

And Republican senators are lining up to support the president during the Senate trial. Will the whole party blindly defend him? And how will history view their role in this impeachment? We'll discuss that.

Plus, Rudy Giuliani says President Trump supports his ongoing efforts to dig for dirt in Ukraine. He claims they're on the same page, but is he making the Democrats argument for them?

And an army unit commemorating the Battle of the Bulge by posting a picture of a Nazi war criminal to Facebook. Shocking. We're going to tell you how they're responding now.

Joining me now is Daniel Dale, Susan Glasser, and Ryan Lizza. Good evening, everyone. Ryan, I want to start with you. And I want to talk about these protests as they are marching in multiple cities in support of Trump's impeachment. Here's what they're saying.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) (CROWD CHANTING)

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LEMON: What do you make of all these protests all across the country tonight, Ryan?

RYAN LIZZA, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes, several of them not far from where I'm at tonight in L.A. I think there were plans for a half dozen of them actually.

Look, you know, the country is divided. Although a majority supports impeachment. So, it's not surprising that people are out on the streets showing why they think what Trump did is impeachable. I don't think this was -- I don't think impeachment was sort of mass movement of protests. It's something that bubbled along in Washington and was decided by Democratic leadership.

So, I think in some ways the protests have been a slightly lagging indicator of all this. Right? It wasn't like people were out in the streets and that's what led to impeachment. It was a very sort of sober fact-finding mission on the part of the House intelligence committee that led to this.

So, I think, you know, previous impeachments there has been a sort of bubbling up from the grassroots. But this was actually the opposite. This was a sober study of the facts and investigation that has triggered some of the outrage that we're seeing perhaps belatedly in the streets. I think that's what historically somewhat unique about what's going on here.

This is not some kind of like mob led coup. This is, you know, a people who are well credentialed and looking at the facts and, you know, feel duty-bound to do what they're likely to do tomorrow. That's my view of the protest.

LEMON: And Susan, I have in my hand here the read of the day. And you know what I'm talking about. And that is the letter. Listen, this is -- he is -- the president is spending the eve of the historic vote lashing out a scathing six-page letter to Speaker Pelosi. You almost can't believe it but then. Go on, Susan.

SUSAN GLASSER, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Don, you know, you give me all the tough questions here. There's a lot of exclamation points in this letter. Interestingly, they're often directed right at Nancy Pelosi, the speaker of the house to whom the letter is addressed.

[23:04:59]

It's a very personal lament of complaint in many ways. You hear the voice of that, you know, outraged kid screaming at the mom. And he's particularly offended throughout this letter at the tone that Nancy Pelosi has tried to strike. One of sort of solemn and prayerful duty and discharging at this (Inaudible) duty. That seems to have driven him from crazy. He is furious. You know, as if it's the parent punishing him but won't engage in fighting with him on his level. So, the tone of it is really something and of course it's just a

remarkable document. I mean, you know, you had the mayor of Salem on earlier. You know, that's one of the more extraordinary lines in this ranting letter where he talks about, you know, the less due process and fairness to him the president of the United States than at the Salem witch trial.

You know, it's hard to remind yourself that this man is a graduate of an Ivy League University. I mean, you know, it's uninformed. It's filled with errors of fact. And you know, frankly, reducing it to sound bites doesn't do justice to the level of sheer whacky runtiness that the president has chosen to share with us.

LEMON: Yes. So, let's talk about that when you talk about some of the not even misstatements, right? You know, not only does this letter show that the president is completely unhinged, it also is filled with tis multiple false statements. Is any of that -- has anything set off Trump's lying more than this impeachment, Daniel?

DANIEL DALE, CNN REPORTER: It's hard to know when he's been set off lying because he basically exists in a perpetual state of lying. He is lying whatever he subjects all the time. I think what's different about this Ukraine saga and the related impeachment saga is that in this case he is chosen lying as his response strategy.

He's been dishonest about just about every individual component of the story. And that's been the way that he's approached this. You know, just to flood the zone with absolute nonsense. And hope enough of it sticks for public opinion to go his way.

LEMON: OK. So, this is an example of the lies in this letter. And I'll just read just a little bit of it. Trump writes, "you know full well that Vice President Biden used his office and $1 billion of U.S. aid money to coerce Ukraine into firing the prosecutor who was digging into the company paying his sons millions of dollars."

Daniel, give us the facts here. What are the facts?

DALE: So, there's a bunch wrong with this. I think the key error or lie however you call it it's wrong, is that the prosecutor, Viktor Shokin was not investigating the company on which Hunter Biden sat on the board. That investigation had fallen dormant by the time Joe Biden applied this pressure.

In addition, the one billion was not a loan payment or an aid payment. It was a loan guaranteed. And the other thing is, Don, is that Joe Biden was pursuing official U.S. policy as well as a policy of U.S. allies in pushing for the ouster of this prosecutor who was widely considered corrupt.

So, Trump makes it sound like Biden was on this rogue errand to benefit himself or benefit his son. And that's just not the case.

LEMON: All right. I want you to take a listen to President Clinton when he was dealing with impeachment.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BILL CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: What I want the American people to know, what I want the Congress to know, is that I am profoundly sorry for all I have done wrong in words and deeds. I never should have misled the country, the Congress, my friends or my family. Quite simply, I gave in to my shame.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Ryan, compare those comments to that the tone of those comments to the tone of Trump's letter.

LIZZA: Well, you know, Richard Nixon on the eve of impeachment, he resigned. Bill Clinton on the eve of impeachment give that extremely remorseful statement. And on the eve of impeachment now we have a purely partisan president, a partisan process and response with a president writing a, you know, frankly, fairly unhinged letter without a lot of factual basis or dealing with the facts of the case.

And you know, I always come back to this, Don, I probably have said this on the show dozens of times. What allows Trump to make those -- you know, what allows a president to make it unhinged argument that is recognizably insane is his enablers in his own party. That's what allows this. Right?

So, if he had people who stepped forward and recognized what was going on, things would be different. Trump is Trump. He's not going change. The real issue is the larger Republican Party and the media environment that that party operates in now.

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That frankly has, I mean, totally alternative view of the world that is factually not -- often not factual. And that's the larger kind of crazy system we're dealing with right now.

LEMON: Susan, we have never seen remorse from Trump. Instead, he's still insisting that that call with Zelensky that it was perfect. What does that say about this president?

GLASSER: Well, he's a maximalist when it comes to confrontation and division. And that's what powered his unlikely rise into politics and it is what has sustained him throughout his presidency. Although, you know, I think what we should note, though, is the escalation in Trump's divisiveness and his tactics by almost any indicator by any metric we're closing out 2019 in a state of really heightened confrontation that the president has sought out.

Like he seems to be actually unraveling in certain ways more than in his previous couple years in the presidency. And it's interesting because, you know, there was this line out of the White House in various Trump anonymous sources in the beginning of the impeachment.

Well, he thinks it's good for him politically. You know, his campaign is still insisting he's going to win reelection in 2020. And that this process has made his victory inevitable. You read that letter and it doesn't sound like someone who's convinced

of his inevitable victory. It sounds like who's panicking, who's hysterical who feels cornered, who feels that he's on the brink of a shameful defeat. And you know, what's amazing is that he never addresses shame directly or head on.

And by the way, it's only this fall there's one example I can think of where Trump has ever reversed course. Not really by saying he's sorry. And that was when he decided to have the G8 next year -- the G7 next year at his own resort in Florida.

And the level of pushback was something that he must have really felt that there was a significant threat to his presidency from Republicans if he proceeded with that. And he reversed course and he never admit error. But in this we're not going to hear him at his rally tomorrow in Michigan express remorse like Bill Clinton just did there.

LEMON: I've got to ask you, Daniel. President Trump also writes in this letter. He said Ambassador Sondland testified that I told him no quid pro quo. I want nothing. I want nothing. I want President Zelensky to do the right thing. Do what he ran on. Yet, many of the president's defenders spent a lot of time throwing Sondland under the bus and backing over him but not President Trump.

DALE: Well, Trump himself has distanced himself since Sondland -- since Sondland at least quasi turned on him. But I think what's interesting about this defense is that Trump is citing what Sondland said Trump told him. So, Trump is citing his own denial as evidence that he is right.

And he is omitting the other part of Sondland's testimony which is that even though Sondland said Trump told him there was no quid pro quo he still thought, himself, that there was a quid pro quo. So, this is very selective and as usual very interesting from this president.

LEMON: All right. Thank you all. I appreciate it.

The president can write all the letters he wants. The fact remains he is all but certain to be impeached in a matter of hours. But what about his Republican defenders? How will history remember them? We'll discuss that next.

That as pro-impeachment rallies are spreading in towns and cities across the country. This one is in Louisville, Kentucky.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And what we're going to do is like this. We're going spell out what needs to happen to Donald Trump tonight. OK? Give your I. Give me your m. Give me a p. Give me a e. Give me an a. Give me a c. Give me an h. What are we going to do to Donald Trump?

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LEMON: So, we are watching tonight pro-impeachment rallies held in towns and cities across the country. The president which in this draws big crowds to his rallies and he loves to brag about those crowds.

You're looking now at a rally earlier tonight. This one was in Vermont. And there's also one in Chicago. That as President Trump sends a blistering letter full of false statements and angry proclamations to the House Speaker Nancy Pelosi just a day before the House is set to vote to impeach him.

But it's still an open question on how the Senate will handle the trial. So how will history look back at the Trump impeachment?

Here to discuss, Margaret Hoover and Douglas Brinkley. So glad to have both of you on. Good evening. Margaret, I'm going to start with you. Many GOP senators are lining up to support President Trump during the Senate trial. So, it's worth remembering statements like this from the Clinton impeachment. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY), MAJORITY LEADER: Every other impeachment has had witnesses. It's not unusual to have witnesses in a trial.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I need witnesses and further evidence to guide me to the right destination to get to the truth.

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): I'll ask of the Senate is to take your oath, listen to the evidence and some way that will with stand historical scrutiny that you'll have a record that will justify any decision you make and vote your conscience. Don't just live for the political moment.

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LEMON: That was then. This is now.

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MCCONNELL: I'm not an impartial juror. This is a political process. There's nothing judicial about it. Impeachment is a political decision. I'm not impartial about this at all.

GRAHAM: I am trying to give a pretty clear signal I have made up my mind. I'm not trying to pretend to be a fair juror here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

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LEMON: OK. So, before the trial senators had to take on oath to be impartial. Are they already violating that? That's for you, Margaret. MARGARET HOOVER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, if you take Mitch McConnell at his word, that he's going to work in conjunction with the White House and you won't see any daylight in between his strategy and that he said explicitly that the president won't be acquitted and has a high degree of confidence that he won't be. You can -- you can surmise.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: That he will be.

HOOVER: That you can surmise that he and enough of his group of Republicans senators have already made up their minds.

LEMON: Yes.

HOOVER: By the way, it's not just Republicans senators who have already made up their minds. I mean, Democrats were also very guilty from before the impeachment inquiry began. And the intelligence committee have also having made up their mind. And it is exactly like we just saw in those clips. A political process --

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: You know, when you talk about --

HOOVER: -- as Hamilton predicted.

LEMON: When you're talking about this time around though --

(CROSSTALK)

HOOVER: In federal --

LEMON: What they said back then, like I hope that people I want to everyone should be impartial and blah, blah, blah. And now this time they're saying, no, I'm not impartial.

HOOVER: But, Don, are you surprised that politics is absolutely a matter of where you sit reflects op where you stand? I mean, this is situational ethics at its very best or worst as the case would have it. No surprise there to any of us.

I mean, what the surprise is they they're all arguing four witnesses. Now there's this push against witnesses. President Trump is the one who says he wants witnesses. He wants every witness out there. He wants Hunter Biden. He wants Joe Biden. He wants the whistleblower. He wants Adam Schiff. I mean, what's all over the map is, you know, what the priorities are here.

LEMON: All right. Douglas, I want to bring you in. How do you think history is going to remember the Republicans who defend and enable this president?

DOUGLAS BRINKLEY, CNN PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: I think that's the real story going on here. I mean, we all know what Donald Trump was when he ran. I mean, the Access Hollywood tape, you know, birtherism. We all knew this.

What surprised our country was these enablers in the GOP. We'll see what happens in the Senate. But I promise you people like from Alexander (Ph) or Mitt Romney or Susan Collins or Cory Gardener. They know that that letter that Donald Trump sent today was whack a doodle. It was gibberish. It was ugly. It's not going to hold up well in history.

And you just wonder if any of these senators are really going to be able to take -- break out from the pack and make a statement during the Senate trial. The problem is there may really not be a trial. Because I don't think you can have a trial without witnesses and without hearing from people like Bolton or Mick Mulvaney and others.

It's going to be -- it's just going to be a charade I think in the end. And we'll see how it all plays out. But today, I thought the letter in particular, Don, was just sad that this comes from president of the United States. This kind of warped defiance. And the belittling of Nancy Pelosi in the way that he did it. I think she was right to call it sick.

LEMON: Yes. I want to talk about this letter. I mean, Trump is sending this furious letter to the House Speaker Nancy Pelosi today. It's clear that he is worried about impeachment. That it's going to be a black spot on his record. But he also seems particularly threatened by powerful women.

I mean, what did you make of this vitriol that we have seen as it comes to Nancy Pelosi? I mean, did you see this letter is just --

(CROSSTALK)

HOOVER: You know, one of the first things that struck me and stood out to me about the letter is what he said in the third paragraph. I think he said that this was beginning an open war on American democracy. And I think of people who have served this president and have also served in open wars like General Jim Mattis, a four-star general who served in Afghanistan and Iraq.

And using the language of war for a political battle -- I asked Jim Mattis about this one. I said what do you think about the president using the word enemies? What are enemies? You know, he says this is something that's on the battlefield. These are people who are trying to kill you because they are against our values, they are against what we stand for.

And I said is it ever appropriate to use the language of war for your political enemies? And he said it's never appropriate. Right? This is -- I mean, Doug is right. Doug has the scope of history that he's looking at as a lens for this.

But every American has a degree of decency which we come through with. And if you're honest with yourself there's nothing in this letter that reflects decency. The standards and the values that we uphold as Americans, the American presidency and of government. A representative of democracy by and for the people. This is not our best self. LEMON: Yes. I agree. Thank you. Thank you, Douglas, as well.

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi dismissing the president's letter today as ridiculous. We're going to take a closer look at the power Pelosi wheels, next.

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LEMON: Also, pro-impeachment rallies were held in towns and cities across the country. Take a look at this one. This is Boston.

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LEMON: We're only hours away now from a vote on the two articles of impeachment against President Trump. A vote that would not be happening without the stamp of approval from the woman in charge of the House. And that's Speaker Nancy Pelosi.

CNN's Chief Political Correspondent, Dana Bash looks at Pelosi's role as leader.

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DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: These days, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi is a cult-like figure among Democrats for going head-to-head with President Trump. Sunglass-clad, coming out of an Oval Office meeting after Democrats won back the House where she said this.

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): Please don't characterize the strength that I bring to this meeting as a leader of the House Democrats.

BASH (voice-over): Taking an image Trump tweeted as an unhinged meltdown, making it her own social media profile picture, a show of strength against the president who doesn't like to be challenged.

SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR (D-MN) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: If you think a woman can't beat Donald Trump, Nancy Pelosi does it every single day.

(APPLAUSE)

BASH (voice-over): But with impeachment, the skills that got Pelosi where she is in the first place, a leader who knows how to manage her diverse democratic caucus, are being tested. Debbie Dingell is on her leadership team.

REP. DEBBIE DINGELL (D-MI): The one I've learned about Nancy Pelosi since I have been here is she does listen. She understands the importance of building consensus. She did not move forward on impeachment without knowing that that's where her caucus was.

BASH (voice-over): Part of knowing her caucus, making sure vulnerable Democrats had victories on other bread and butter issues to talk about back home.

(On camera): The fact that there's a trade deal and it's going to be voted on the day after impeachment, the fact that there's prescription drug legislation that particularly moderates can go home and talk about, that is not an accident.

DINGELL: It's not. She knows what she's doing.

BASH (voice-over): On display at this contentious Michigan town hall with Elissa Slotkin.

REP. ELISSA SLOTKIN (D-MI): We will talk, of course, about the impeachment inquiry, but we will also talk about really big things like the USMCA or sort of the next agreement after NAFTA, as well as prescription drug legislation.

BASH (voice-over): The speaker understood cutting a deal with the administration on trade --

PELOSI: Defend the Constitution --

BASH (voice-over): -- announced an hour after a milestone speech on impeachment allowed Democrat Slotkin to talk up the president in her Trump-won district.

SLOTKIN: I have to give a lot of credit to both the president and the president's negotiator.

BASH (voice-over): On the progressive side of the caucus, you hear the same thing about Pelosi's leadership style.

REP. PRAMILA JAYAPAL (D-WA): I think she's done a really good job of navigating very difficult waters.

BASH (voice-over): Progressive Caucus Co-Chair Pramila Jayapal fought Pelosi hard and won some concessions on a key prescription drug bill Pelosi wanted done before Christmas.

JAYAPAL: Sometimes, you know, I'm sure she's irritated with us and sometimes we might be irritated with her. But it has to do with what we're fighting for. At the end of the day, I do think she recognizes that if this is an ideological value for you and you make that clear, she's not going to talk you out of it.

BASH (voice-over): Last fall, during a visit to her hometown of Baltimore, Pelosi described her role as a leader as one of a master weaver.

PELOSI: I'm at the loom. Every member, whatever, generationally, geographically, gender identity, whatever the philosophical differences, whatever it is, all of it is strength to us. And so you weave it and weave it and you value every thread because it strengthens the tapestry of what you are creating.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: And Dana Bash joins me now. Dana, thank you so much. In this letter the president sent to Speaker Pelosi, one of his rants claims that she admitted the party's impeachment effort has been ongoing for two and a half years but that's not the whole story, is it?

BASH: No, not even close. What has been going on is that a lot of people on the left really mostly since the Democrats took back control of the House and she became speaker, they have been pressuring her big time to move forward on impeachment.

But she has gotten just as much pressure until recently from moderates in Trump-won districts saying do not do this, this would be political disaster for us. It didn't happen. She didn't get there until recently, until this Ukraine issue.

And most importantly, she didn't get there until she was comfortable that her caucus, majority of the caucus, and we'll see in the vote tomorrow, a vast majority of her caucus said we're ready.

LEMON: You spoke with Rudy Giuliani today. What did he tell you about the president's thoughts about what Giuliani is doing when it comes to Ukraine?

BASH: So I was trying to find out if the president directed him to go to Ukraine to try -- to continue this investigation and frankly this quest that led to the impeachment situation we're in right now. He wouldn't go there. He wouldn't say what the specific conversations were except to say that the president and he are on the same page and that the president is very supportive of these efforts and these efforts obviously, as I said, include a big trip to Ukraine.

And now him coming back and talking to reporters like me and others and other outlets continuing to stir the notion that there is a lot more to dig up on Joe Biden and also going back to 2016 and Ukraine's role and insisting that we need to get more information as a country.

[23:35:07]

LEMON: Wow! Did he say anything about admitting that he pushed to oust --

BASH: Yeah.

LEMON: -- the ambassador, Marie Yovanovitch?

BASH: Yes, he did. Remember during the dramatic public testimony that she gave, one of the things that she talked about was how stunned she was, it appeared to be a revelation that Giuliani was behind it all, he doesn't hide it. He said, yeah, I've said it before. I was behind it. I prepared to report, he said.

(LAUGHTER)

BASH: That he gave to the secretary of state back in the spring in March, detailing why she should be removed. The president knew about it, too. He insists it is because she was blocking his efforts to do these investigations into Biden and other conspiracy theories.

And she testified it's just the opposite. He was trying to get into bed with figures in Ukraine who dealt with Russia. He pushed back on me hard saying that's not true, insisted that she perjured herself when she was testifying.

But the one thing that's key, Don, is he said -- I said, where's the evidence? He said, well, I have it, it is in a safe, and I'm not going to give it yet. So, that's kind of a key thing if he is going to make those accusations. Where is the evidence?

LEMON: I guess he is learning from the president, just tease it along, right? Keep the suspense. Thank you, Dana. I appreciate it.

BASH: Thanks, Don.

LEMON: Yeah. We heard Dana, Rudy Giuliani says he and the president are on the same page. But every time he speaks, does he give Democrats more ammunition against his client?

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[23:40:00]

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LEMON: On the eve of President Trump's all but certain impeachment, his attorney, Rudy Giuliani, telling CNN, "Just in case you think we're on defense, we're not."

Joining me now to discuss are Elie Honig, Julia Ioffe, and Garrett Graff, whatever that means, OK?

(LAUGHTER)

LEMON: Hi, everyone. Elie, Giuliani is also telling CNN that President Trump is very supportive of his ongoing efforts to dig up dirt in Ukraine. He is really making the Democrats' argument for them, right?

ELIE HONIG, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: He's exhibit A. He is a walking, talking, living exhibit for impeachment. When this impeachment happens tomorrow, remember, the two most responsible people for it are number one, Donald Trump, and number two, Rudy Giuliani.

I think the evidence has been pretty clear. This Ukraine scheme is not something Donald Trump pulled out of thin air. It is something that was put in his head by Rudy Giuliani. So, yeah, he is intensely responsible for what we are about to see happen.

LEMON: It doesn't feel like we are living in bizarre --

HONIG: It does. Even just that hope where if you think we are on defense, we are on offence. He should not only be a defense. He should be in hiding. (LAUGHTER)

LEMON: Julia, Giuliani has been talking. He has been tweeting wild claims about former Ambassador Yovanovitch, claiming that she perjured herself during her testimony last month. But he is not providing any evidence aside from claims from some really sketchy characters.

JULIA IOFFE, CORRESPONDENT, GQ: I mean, he is playing for 4D test where three of the dimensions cancel each other out. He is just that good. And, you know, some of the evidence he is providing, I don't know if you have seen the kind of documentary that one American news network put together --

LEMON: I saw some clips.

IOFFE: It is pretty amazing. One of the characters looks like a character from "The Big Lobowski." He was about to open, you know, Don, he is kind of (INAUDIBLE). You know, he is bringing in the Ukrainian disgrace, Ukrainian prosecutor Yuriy Lutsenko, who has changed his story a number of times.

Well, now he is saying this. Therefore, Marie Yovanovitch, who has not lied at all at any point, has perjured herself because this guy at this point today has said something the opposite of her. Again -- I don't know. He is just that good. We just can't get it.

LEMON: Yeah. Garrett Graff, last time, I spoke with James Clapper, the former director of National Intelligence. He said that Rudy could be counterintelligence vulnerability. Do you think he could be unwittingly helping Vladimir Putin? Are they setting him up possibly?

GARRETT GRAFF, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, very much so. I mean, in part because we know that the roots of some of these Ukrainian disinformation to campaign were actually put into place and have been advanced by Kremlin propaganda. I think sort of one of the things -- and Julia just touched on this a little bit -- is this weird network of characters that Giuliani is playing with.

In the department -- scandals that in any other moment, in any other administration would be among the biggest stories of the day that I think today probably didn't even merit a blip was U.S. prosecutors today were in court arguing and announcing that actually Lev Parnas, one of Giuliani's associates who was wrapped up in this campaign finance scheme, his wife evidently received $1 million loan from Russian-Ukrainian oligarch Dmytro Firtash, who was one of the most wanted criminals in the world.

[23:45:00]

GRAFF: He has been indicted in Chicago, and who according to Bill Taylor, the ambassador at the center of this impeachment inquiry, actually got his (INAUDIBLE) with Semion Mogilevich, the most notorious of Russian-organized crime bosses and the only international figure on the FBI's 10 most wanted list alongside Osama bin Laden.

So the fact that you have Rudy Giuliani in business with someone who is taking a loan from one of the most powerful best connected Russian organized crime bosses and that's not even something that we are talking about at any depth tonight, that's an incredibly weird moment for American politics.

LEMON: I can't believe you remembered all these names, Garrett.

(LAUGHTER)

LEMON: Julia, regardless of whether Giuliani is being manipulated by Russia, if he is running around, he is trying to spread a debunked conspiracy theory or conspiracy theories, that it was Ukraine, not Russia, that interfered in 2016 election, that is a win for Putin.

IOFFE: Well, that specific theory came from Putin. We know that already, right? So we know that at least one of the theories that Rudy is out here spreading comes directly from the Kremlin. We also know that Donald Trump gets a lot of his views on Ukraine from Vladimir Putin, from Viktor Orban, his friends in the kind of autocrats club.

But I think -- Garrett is an incredibly brilliant journalist and he did an amazing job connecting all these dots for us. But unfortunately, I think a lot of people watching have lost track a long time ago. And what Rudy Giuliani does is he gums up the works even more. He throws in more names, more Lutsenkos and Parnasas and Frumans.

Meanwhile, Donald Trump is out there saying read the transcript, perfect call, very simple, very consistent messaging, whereas we in the media are like, well, there were these two lawyers who represented this guy who also work for this oligarch who was also connected to this person, and people's eyes glaze over. This is how Donald Trump and Rudy Giuliani win their case with the public.

LEMON: Yeah. Elie, I had another question for you, but unfortunately we are out of time.

HONIG: Next time.

LEMON: Next time.

HONIG: Yeah.

LEMON: Thank you.

HONIG: I owe you. You owe me.

(LAUGHTER)

LEMON: Thank you, guys. The final presidential debate of the year is coming to CNN. It is a critical night for the candidate still trying to break through. The PBS NewsHour-Politico democratic presidential is live from Los Angeles. Watch it on CNN and your local PBS station. Coverage starts at 8:00 p.m. Eastern. It is on Thursday night.

Up next, an army unit commemorating the Battle of the Bulge by posting a picture to Facebook, but the thing is they posted a picture of a Nazi war criminal. How, why, and what they saying about it now, that's next.

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[23:50:00]

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LEMON: A U.S. military unit is expressing regret after commemorating a World War II battle by posting a picture on social media of a Nazi war criminal and telling his side of the story.

The glossy colorized image posted on the army's 18th airborne corps Facebook page and shared on other Department of Defense pages showed notorious German Commander Joachim Peiper, a Nazi who fought against the U.S. in the battle of the Bulge 75 years ago. He also ordered the deaths of more than 80 U.S. prisoners.

In fact, 75 years ago today, his unit gunned down 84 Americans, the deadliest mass execution of U.S. soldiers during World War II. Is he really deserving of a hero headshot on official military social media? And the post went beyond just a picture. It included a narrative of what the Nazi commander was up against, and that part still live on Facebook says this.

"The mission was called "Operation Watch on the Rhine," and Joachim would lead it. The fate of his beloved nation rested on his ability to lead his men through the American lines." His beloved nation, Germany, was led by Hitler and slaughtered millions.

One military public affairs officer posted on Twitter that he was dumbfounded by the decision to feature a Nazi so prominently on social media. And critics on Facebook agreed, many of them commenting in outrage.

And at one point, the Facebook account belonging to the military unit responded, defending the post as documented by The Washington Post, saying, "Sometimes in movies, the movie will create a sense of tension by introducing a bad guy. It is a technique of effective storytelling."

The picture has since been taken down, and the 18th airborne corps is apologizing, tweeting, "We regret the use of the photograph of Joachim Peiper. The intent was to tell the full story of the Battle of the Bulge.

But could that same story be told without a glamorized photo of a Nazi? The photo, according to The New York Times, came from a photo- sharing website and may have been colorized by someone in Slovakia, whose online account shows several colorized Nazi photos and comments praising Nazis and Hitler.

Again, was that picture needed to remember what happened? We should all know the answer to that because it is not a Nazi war criminal who should be remembering -- we should be remembering or honoring or lionizing.

[23:55:02]

LEMON: It's the 84 Americans who lost their lives at his hands, Americans fighting for what is right. Tonight, we should be remembering them. Thank you for watching. Our coverage continues.

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