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Don Lemon Tonight
President Trump Impeached by the House; Friction Between Lawmakers in the Senate; Don's Take On The House Vote To Impeach President Trump; House Voting To Impeach President Trump. Aired 10-11p ET
Aired December 18, 2019 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[22:00:00]
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST: Now, between these two events, there's been an unknown injected. Nancy Pelosi, speaker of the house, saying we've done our job. And she's asked about handing over those articles to the Senate to allow it to be their chance. And she said, we'll see what happens. We want to see what shape it takes. What's going on with timing? What does that mean for what comes next?
Impeachment can't be undone. But the president can't get his acquittal until that trial happens in whatever form it takes.
We'll be back at midnight with more special coverage of the impeachment of President Donald Trump.
CNN Tonight with D. Lemon right now.
DON LEMON, CNN HOST: That's the suspense. That's the leverage that Nancy Pelosi believes that she has at this point. Is it going to be fair because at this point in doesn't seem like it's going to be?
You hear Mitch McConnell saying there's going to be no distance between the White House and him. They're supposed to be impartial. They're supposed to be fair. Lindsey Graham saying the same thing. I'm sending the message that we are -- this is not going to happen. I'm going to vote against the president being indicted.
But here's the thing that struck me the most when I watched all day today, OK, Chris? We always talk about the president. The president has no one to blame but himself. Not one person -- let me go back here a little bit.
I watched you last night when you talked about what happened with Bill Clinton, and I mentioned it, and I played the sound bite as well in my take, in my opening remarks.
Bill Clinton was contrite. He apologized. He said, I'm sorry. I'm sorry that I misled the country. I'm sorry that I steered you wrong. I'm sorry that I lied.
Donald Trump has done none of that. And guess what? When I watched every single person, every Republican who got up today and spoke, not one of them said he did anything wrong. Not one of them said it was inappropriate. Not one of them chastised him for anything he did on the call or for any of his behavior.
They have been enablers throughout this entire process. They didn't say, well, maybe he could have done something different. Maybe what he did was inappropriate. Maybe he should not have brought the Bidens up on the call. Maybe he shouldn't have brought Burisma or anything that had to do with any of his personal business.
So, they have been enablers throughout this. So, I also blame them as well. They are responsible for his impeachment as well. It is what it is at this point. So, they are to blame, not just the president of the United States because they have been enablers.
CUOMO: He did what he did. He said what he said. That nobody else deserves any blame for. However, he could have not been impeached, there's a likelihood, if he had played this differently.
If he had been compelled by himself or any of the voices or the Republicans, as you suggest, to admit that he did something wrong but he didn't do it for the reasons that the Democrats are accusing him of, and he doesn't want foreign interference, he may have avoided this because Nancy Pelosi did not want to go down this road when a lot of other Democrats did, and it was a tough push for them.
LEMON: What if -- imagine if he had said, listen, I didn't -- I didn't mean to do that. I was -- if he had said, listen, I'm really sorry. Maybe the call wasn't perfect. Maybe it came out wrong. What I was really trying to do was deal with corruption.
Maybe I got ahead of myself or what have you, but I'm sorry. That's not what I meant. What if he had just -- what if he had done that? What if he apologized?
(CROSSTALK)
CUOMO: It would have really hurt the Democrats. It would have really hurt their case because he's certainly not a continuing threat now.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: He's not a continuing national security threat. He just said he knows that he did this the wrong way, and he didn't even have to give as much as you're suggesting.
LEMON: Yes. He could have just said, look, I don't trust the State Department. I think they're out to get me. I don't trust any of these institutions. I think they're out to get me. That's why I put Rudy in there.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: I didn't have some parallel or anything going on. I didn't accept the main one. But I didn't do this for foreign interference. I don't need any help to beat Biden.
LEMON: Yes. CUOMO: So, I understand why you think it was wrong. I shouldn't have
done it this way. I'm trying to get my trust up, but you guys keep coming after me that's why it happened. I wasn't trying to get any advantage. I don't need one.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: That alone would have made the Democrats not able to argue he was a continuing threat. But, my brother, pride comes before the fall.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: And when you refuse to admit you did anything wrong and you blame everybody else around you and the facts are as clear as they are here, you're going to get impeached and that's what happened.
LEMON: And now there's a mark, permanent mark, on his record that he talked about.
CUOMO: It can never go away. It cannot be undone by the Senate. He can only be removed from office and disqualified from running again by the Senate.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: But I don't know that Pelosi has the leverage that you suggest. I don't understand how much of a deal --
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: Well she's using it as -- she's using it as leverage. Yes, I don't know if she does as well and we're going to discuss that throughout our show.
CUOMO: Good.
LEMON: We'll see you at midnight. Thank you, Chris.
This is CNN Tonight. I'm Don Lemon.
President Trump has been impeached. President Donald J. Trump, the 45th President of these United States, now only the third president to be impeached.
[22:05:05]
The House voting less than two hours ago, just a short time ago, to approve two articles of impeachment. The first for abuse of power.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. NANCY PELOSI (D), UNITED STATES SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: On this vote, the ayes are 230. The nays are 197. Present is one. Article one is adopted.
(END VIDEO CLIP) LEMON: The second for obstruction of Congress.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PELOSI: On this vote, the ayes are 229. The nays are 198. Present is one. Article two is adopted.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Two years and 332 days into his presidency.
I want to get straight to Phil Mattingly on Capitol Hill, also Kaitlan Collins at the White House tonight. Good evening to both of you. Phil, you first. Wow, this is history. Bring us the latest here. There was a lot of news in the speaker's press conference. What can you tell us, Phil?
PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Don, that's exactly right. The speaker starting off saying it was a great day for the Constitution, a sad day for the country, which is pretty in line with what she's been saying.
But it was she said after that, that was, to be frank, that was remarkable. Pelosi asked several times what the next steps were in terms of actually transmitting the articles of impeachment over to the Senate and declining to say, even declining to say whether or not she was willing to hold on to the articles of impeachment for an extended period of time.
And Don, let me give you the context here of what's been going on this week on this side of the Capitol. I'm over in the Senate right now.
There is a standoff right now between Chuck Schumer, the Democratic leader, and Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell about the structure of the Senate trial. The two are supposed to meet and try and hammer out a bipartisan deal. That hasn't happened yet.
Schumer has put a proposal on the table asking for witnesses. McConnell has made clear that is not something he's amenable to right now. And so, you and Chris were talking about the idea of leverage and there's a lot of different factors going on right now.
But there is some truth to the idea that this gives Schumer, who may actually sit down with the majority leader tomorrow, some leverage in those talks. Look, if you want to get this trial done as quickly as you say you do, we can get these articles of impeachment over here if you're willing to negotiate on the structure of the trial. I think the big question, though, is whether or not that will actually be the case, Don.
LEMON: So, what happens next? What's the Senate reaction to this? Do you know?
MATTINGLY: Yes. So, here are the things you're going to need to watch. Tomorrow morning at 9.30 a.m., Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell will come to the Senate floor and give a speech. It's going to be a very important speech where he lays out kind of his views of the next steps.
We're obviously also still waiting for that long-standing meeting between Schumer and McConnell to see if they can reach some kind of bipartisan agreement.
But I want to get back to the issue of leverage here because I've been bouncing this off Republican sources in the Senate, what they thought. Was it a realistic idea? Was it something that might help Schumer in these negotiations?
And Don, I had a Republican senator get back to me and say, quote, "if the speaker thinks this magically gives Democrats leverage in the Senate, she hasn't been paying attention to how McConnell operates the last few decades."
So, kind of undercutting this idea as this goes forward. The bottom line is there will be a Senate trial. The big questions that are still outstanding that hopefully we have some answers to soon, how long will it be, what the structure will it be, and based on where Democrats stand right now, will there be any witnesses at all, Don.
LEMON: All right, Kaitlan, I want to bring you in now. As the House was voting to impeach the president, he was at a rally tonight surrounded by people who love him. What's the reaction, what was his reaction tonight?
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Don. He actually found out what this final tally of that vote was that Phil is just talking about while he was on stage. At first, they acted like he might wait for that vote to happen. And then he took the stage in Michigan.
He's been up there for two hours, and while at times it sounded like a speech that he would have before he had been impeached, he's also been incredibly angry with Democrats, lashing out at them, saying that they act so pompous and righteous.
And Don, he's been singling them out, saying that House speaker Nancy Pelosi should be voted the hell out of office. He's going after the House minority leader -- excuse me -- the Senate Minority Leader, Chuck Schumer, saying he needs to kiss his back side.
Even going after Carolyn Maloney saying that he wants to get the money back that he has given to her. And saying also that President Barack Obama should be impeached.
But, Don, perhaps his most personal attack tonight was at Debbie Dingell, who was of course the congresswoman from Michigan whose husband passed away earlier this year. He of course was the longest serving congressman.
And the president had attacked them a few days ago after she had been talking about the fact that she would likely vote yes on these articles of impeachment. But he took it to a different level tonight, Don. Listen to what he said to a crowd in Michigan where John Dingell was from. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Debbie Dingell, that's a really beauty. So, she calls me up like eight months ago. Her husband was ill a long time but I didn't give him the b treatment. I didn't give him the c or the d. I could have. Nobody would ask, you know. I gave the a-plus treatment. Take down the flags. She calls me up. It's the nicest thing that's ever happened. Thank you so much.
[22:10:02]
John would be so thrilled. He's looking down. He'd be so thrilled. Thank you so much, sir. I said, that's OK. Don't worry about it. Maybe he's looking up. I don't know. I don't know.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Now, Don, he said maybe he's looking up. I have been to a lot of Trump rallies, and I don't think I've ever heard the crowd groan like the way you heard that crowd there in Michigan at something the president said like he did -- like they did tonight when he made that comment about John Dingell.
LEMON: That's really disgusting. Representative Debbie Dingell responding to the president on Twitter just a short time ago saying, "Mr. President, let's set politics aside. My husband earned all his accolades after a lifetime of service. I'm preparing for the first holiday season without the man I love. You brought me down in a way you can never imagine and your hurtful words just made my healing much harder."
I mean, Kaitlan, she's absolutely right. But here's my question. What were people expecting, that President Trump would say, yes, I've been impeached. You know, I get it now? I'm going to mend my ways? That's who he is.
COLLINS: Yes. I don't definitely do not think they thought that he was going to downplay it, though you did see him trying to minimize it at the beginning. But then you could see he kept coming back to it. Clearly his anger was coming out.
And of course, this is all before the president has even watched the coverage of that vote as it happened tonight since he was already onstage. And essentially what we had heard from aides earlier in the day, campaign aides said they were ready for that rally to be happening while that impeachment vote was happening.
But what people who were on the plane on inside the West Wing typically don't like it as when they fly back with the president, it's some kind of unfavorable coverage, and of course it doesn't get less favorable than being impeached, and that's what they're going to be flying back to Washington watching tonight.
LEMON: All right, Phil, Kaitlan, nice job. Thank you so much. Stay with me because I want to bring in now John Dean and also David Axelrod.
So, John -- guys, welcome to the show. Speaker Pelosi said tonight that she is holding the articles of impeachment until we know more about the Senate trial. This is just -- what you have been recommending, right? You recommended that on this show last week. Give me your reaction, John.
JOHN DEAN, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, I was delighted with what she said. Contrary to some of the talk that's out there, she does have leverage. She has a lot of leverage. She doesn't -- I can't find anything in the rules that requires her to send those articles over to the Senate, which triggers the impeachment trial in the Senate.
And as long as she's holding those, he's an impeached president, and let him carry that into an election. Let members of the Senate and the House carry those into their elections. I think they're losers on those issues.
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: Yes, but John, what about --
DEAN: They're really not defensible.
LEMON: What about the argument that this, that all along we have to do this quickly because he's going to do it again? We have an election coming up. Doesn't that sort of negate that argument?
DEAN: No. What you had to do quickly was impeach him, and they have done that. He's on notice. He's not likely to continue that activity while he's under impeachment. And they're going to have ongoing investigations. They'll know if he's doing this again.
LEMON: OK. David, let me bring you in. So, at the end of this very extremely historic day, the president has been impeached. It is a huge mark of his historical record -- on his historical record. So, and then what? Now what?
DAVID AXELROD, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes. Now what is the question. I think it is axiomatic that he is not going to be convicted by the Senate. I think that's been true from the beginning but it was important for the House to do what it did today.
Otherwise you'd be normalizing that which is clearly beyond the pale. You can't shake down an ally, a foreign, another government for political favors to try and advantage yourself in the election and use U.S. military aid as leverage to do it.
And you can't just thumb your nose at the Congress and say, I'm not going to cooperate with any investigation. I'm not going to turn over any documents. I'm not going to allow my aides to testify or anybody in my government. Some people defied that order.
They had to make a stand here regardless of the outcome. How it affects the election, I don't know. But, Don, let me tell you one thing that occurred to me today. There were almost three dozen Democrats in that House who ran in districts that Donald Trump carried last year.
There is no political advantage to them for having cast this vote today. They did something that we want our public officials to do. They cast a vote of principle. Even if -- even knowing that there might be political risk to it, Republicans were menacing them on the floor today.
There's been tens of millions of dollars poured, you know, into ads, and they can expect more. And they cast those votes anyway because they thought it was important as a matter of principle to stand up for the Constitution and for norms that have been just torn us under by this president.
[22:15:05]
So, I don't know what the political implications of this will be in the long run, but it was an important statement for the House to make.
LEMON: Yes, you don't think they've really had a choice with this. John, President Trump wants a big trial. We saw how all they're in, the Republicans, were today -- I was just talking to Chris about that. This is his party. Will they go along with him on this? I want a long trial, drawn out, the show?
DEAN: I don't think so. If you take the precedent of the Clinton trial where they did have witnesses, they had them in depositions and had screens on the floor of the Senate for the depositions to be shown, but they didn't have live witnesses, they had four witnesses.
And it was a very orderly and somber and really well conducted trial. It wasn't something that President Clinton wanted. He wanted no trial at all.
I don't think that there's any circumstance they're going to give Trump what he wants. Ted Cruz, for example, has already said there's not 51 votes in the Senate to get him Hunter Biden on the floor of the Senate.
LEMON: They --
(CROSSTALK)
AXELROD: You know, could I just --
LEMON: Yes, go ahead, David.
AXELROD: -- could I jump in there, Don? I don't think a -- I don't think there's any -- I think what everybody has been telling the president and Kaitlan would know more about this than anyone here, but there is no advantage to him in a long trial.
There is no advantage to him in having witnesses because the witnesses that the Democrats want to call are witnesses who have firsthand knowledge of what was behind this decision. He does not want to see them under oath in front of the nation, having to testify on this. So, you know, I think they're -- and I think Pelosi knows that too,
which is why she may feel like she can leverage something here or wants to leverage something here. But I think that anyone who is making rational judgments for this president would say, let's get this over quickly. Let's not have witnesses. Let's get past this because it's not going to be good for you if it becomes a longer trial.
LEMON: Hey, Kaitlan, I'm up against the clock here. If you can respond in 10 seconds. You want to respond to that?
COLLINS: Yes. He's completely right. That's what they've been warning him. Witnesses can cut both ways, Mr. President. So just because you have Hunter Biden doesn't mean that Mick Mulvaney is not going to have to talk about what he knows as well if it comes to that.
LEMON: All right. Thank you all. We've got more to come on this momentous and historic day. President Trump impeached tonight by the House for abuse of power and obstruction of Congress. And speaker -- the House Speaker Nancy Pelosi says they won't decide when to send articles of impeachment to the Senate until they see whether there will be a fair trial. We'll be right back.
[22:20:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: We're back now with our breaking news. President Trump impeached by the House of Representatives tonight. He's only the third president in the nation's history to be impeached. And in a surprise move the House speaker Nancy Pelosi says she won't send the articles of impeachment to the Senate or name impeachment managers yet.
Here to discuss, Mark McKinnon, Catherine Rampell, Andrew Gillum and Elie Honig. Not a lot to discuss, right?
ANDREW GILLUM, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Just a little bit today.
LEMON: Listen, this was a very big day. This is a very big day. Only the third president in U.S. history to be impeached. Welcome one and all.
Catherine, I'm going to start with you. Nancy Pelosi says, the House speaker says she's not going to send the articles over to the Senate until she knows there's going to be a fair trial. What do you think about that move?
CATHERINE RAMPELL, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: It's hard for me to see how the Democrats actually have much leverage here. I know John Dean indicated that he thinks that they do.
And, look, I believe that Trump wants this over as quickly as possible, so maybe that's the logic. But on the other hand, you can just imagine Republicans spinning this as, Democrats can't even stand by their own articles of impeachment, and it was a lot of hurry up and wait now. You know, they rushed through this impeachment process and now they're not even sending over the articles of impeachment. So, I don't know that this really carries the kind of leverage that I
think people on the left are hoping for if they want anything more than a show trial, if they want real witnesses called, but maybe I'm wrong.
MARK MCKINNON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I think Mitch McConnell will say, we'll just drag this out as long as you want to. Fine. On the other hand, I think John Dean is right about President Trump's psyche. He wants to be exonerated now. He doesn't want this to be hanging out there that he's been impeached. So, I think the president very much wants to get this thing going.
LEMON: So --
(CROSSTALK)
GILLUM: In the president's case though, he will always have been an impeached president from here to forth.
MCKINNON: True. True. But if a Senate trial goes forward, he'll have been impeached and exonerated.
GILLUM: Well, there is that. But the truth is I doubt the Senate is going to produce a single witness that is going to in any way absolve this president of any responsibility. If they felt like they had the facts on their side, why wouldn't they produce Mick Mulvaney? Why wouldn't they produce Secretary Pompeo? Why wouldn't they produce people who have firsthand information about what took place who could potentially exonerate the president?
MCKINNON: It wouldn't be hearsay anymore, right?
GILLUM: Of course. But they won't do that and that's because those folks cannot exonerate the president.
LEMON: Yes, but this is -- everyone always says, you know, this isn't -- this isn't about a -- it's not a criminal proceeding, right? But is it innocent until proven guilty? Does the president have to prove his innocence, or do they have to prove the guilt here?
ELIE HONIG, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: So, the burden is on the House managers. They have to prove guilty enough to convict him. But the big question here is are we going to have any truth-finding function whatsoever? Is this going to be an actual trial on anything like the real sense of the word, or is this just going to be an empty political formality?
Isn't it crazy, big picture that we're sitting here arguing over whether there should be witnesses at a trial? I mean, what's more fundamental to a trial than witnesses and facts? Then we have Mitch McConnell and Lindsey Graham openly advertising, we're not going to be impartial. I mean watch them when they take that oath, when they have to raise their right hand in the well of the Senate and swore to be impartial jurors. I want the TV cameras to zoom in on them. I want to see what happens to --
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: But how are they going to do that? How are they going to take that oath --
HONIG: Yes.
LEMON: -- but when they've already said I'm not --
(CROSSTALK)
GILLUM: That's what I'm saying.
LEMON: All right.
GILLUM: Are they even going to blink?
LEMON: Who's going to win out here? Is it going to be Mitch McConnell? Is it going to be President Trump? Mitch McConnell who wants a short one. is it going to be President Trump who wants a long -- who's going to win?
MCKINNON: I think McConnell.
GILLUM: But really does the president really want a long trial?
RAMPELL: Yes.
LEMON: He likes a show.
GILLUM: Well, no. I think what the president likes to do --
(CROSSTALK)
RAMPELL: What he said, he also said he really would love to release his tax returns.
GILLUM: Precisely. I would love for all of them to be witnesses, except not really.
RAMPELL: Yes.
GILLUM: I think the president is full of bluster and fluff and his word can't be trusted.
MCKINNON: Yes, I'd love to testify.
GILLUM: For sure.
MCKINNON: Here we go, train is on the track.
RAMPELL: Right.
LEMON: You've been a Republican --
GILLUM: Not me.
LEMON: -- in Republican politics for a long time. What did you think of your party?
MCKINNON: Well, like you in your opening statement, the thing that really strikes me is that not a single Republican could acknowledge that there was some misbehavior. You know, even call for censure.
Whatever it is, you can't look at the set of circumstances that happened and not know in your heart that this president absolutely knew what he was doing. He did it right after the day he got exonerated by Mueller. You know he was testing the guardrails of democracy; you know he was breaking as much stuff as he can. He broke a bunch of stuff during Mueller. I got away with that, and I can see I can get away with this.
[22:25:02]
And so, we have tested the guardrails of democracy and the last guardrail is impeachment, and that guardrail came up today.
GILLUM: And this president, by the way, I mean, he's acted with impunity. He believes that he is above the law. He has pretty much said so. And takes no -- I heard you and Chris earlier as you all entered the conversation, and I actually don't think there are words he could have given that could have backed him away from what his actions were.
This president, on a phone call with a national global leader said, I need a favor, and I need you to do this for me. In exchange for doing this for me, we'll release this aid, which by the way held lives in the balance, national security in the balance.
These were issues of state, and this president was prepared to put his own personal interests above the interest of the country. That's not a mistake.
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: You don't think that could have helped to change the sentiment with Democrats in the Congress?
GILLUM: To say I accidentally asked him for a favor?
LEMON: Or that I made a mistake, and I'm sorry I made that mistake.
GILLUM: For sure except now he's got his own personal attorney.
LEMON: Yes.
GILLUM: Who is keeping him updated every single day since the impeachment has started, as late as, what, yesterday, two days ago? His attorney comes back from Ukraine.
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: Here's the interesting thing. I've been speaking with some of the people who worked in the Clinton administration, and they said they were told under no uncertain terms, you are to cooperate with Kenneth Starr.
GILLUM: Sure.
LEMON: And this administration has been told, you are not to cooperate with anyone.
GILLUM: That's article two.
MCKINNON: That's the second article.
HONIG: Yes. That's right.
RAMPELL: Yes.
LEMON: So, what's -- that is not obstruction of Congress?
GILLUM: Of course, it is.
MCKINNON: Well, I think that the Congress just voted that it is. It is obstruction. Again, this is just the pattern of the president just seeing how much he can push, how much can he get away with this. This is where the constitutional founders are going to say this is where we draw the line. This is where the House is going to say no. We are coequal branch of government and we have our say today.
GILLUM: That's right.
HONIG: And Adam Schiff made a good point in his closing. I think he said, someday you're going to be the majority --
GILLUM: That's right.
HONIG: -- Republicans in this House, and you're going to want to exercise your constitutional oversight power and you'll be thankful that we did this.
GILLUM: The problem is that they don't care about that. You can see Lindsey Graham, you put his comments next to what he said during the Clinton impeachment.
LEMON: No one cares.
GILLUM: There is no comparison.
RAMPELL: Yes.
GILLUM: You won't identify the person in those --
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: You're in politics. You know that. Come on. Thank you.
GILLUM: No, I couldn't do that. I couldn't do that.
LEMON: Thank you very much. Our breaking news tonight is huge. President Trump impeached by the
House and his Republican defenders are comparing him to Jesus and comparing his impeachment to Pearl Harbor. Really?
[22:30:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DON LEMON, CNN HOST: Our breaking news tonight, the House voting to impeach President Trump. But let's be clear here about what impeachment means. It's not about hating the president. It's about abuse of power. It's about a shakedown of a vulnerable ally to get investigations the president wanted. In fact, not even real investigations, just the announcement of investigations. It's about withholding $391 million in military aid. It's about dangling the prospect of a White House meeting if Ukraine gave the president what he wanted.
Listen to this. I want you to sit down and listen to this, all right? It's about the president saying this in front of TV cameras right on the White House lawn, telling us out loud exactly what he wanted from Ukraine.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Well, I would think that if they were honest about it, they'd start a major investigation into the Bidens. It's a very simple answer.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: So here's the thing. The GOP bears a lot of responsibility for where we are tonight. They have largely refused to acknowledge any of the president's behavior was wrong. They still do. Ride or die. The Republicans wouldn't provide checks and balances, leaving Democrats with the choice of impeachment or letting the behavior go unchecked. Remember, it was just yesterday the president himself complained that impeachment was worse than the Salem witch trials, trials that led to innocent people being put to death.
Well, today the president's defenders took it to 11, claiming -- and this is really shocking -- that Pontius Pilate gave more rights to Jesus in his trial than Democrats gave the president. Yes. Georgia Congressman, Barry Loudermilk actually said that. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. BARRY LOUDERMILK (R-GA): When Jesus was falsely accused of treason, Pontius Pilate gave Jesus the opportunity to face his accusers. During that sham trial, Pontius Pilate afforded more rights to Jesus than the Democrats have afforded this president in this process.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: But it wasn't enough for Republicans to compare this president to Jesus. They also compared impeachment to Pearl Harbor.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. MIKE KELLY (R-PA): On December 7th, 1941, a horrific act happened in the United States and it's one that President Roosevelt said this is a date that will live in infamy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: The president was impeached today for his own actions. There is absolutely no comparison to Pearl Harbor, where 2,403 Americans were killed and more than 11,000 wounded. You think Republicans would know better than to go there, comparing impeachment to Pearl Harbor, comparing this president to Jesus. Let's face it. They would have blown up if Democrats had compared Barack Obama to Jesus. Can you imagine? But let's remember this president, who loves to call himself a stable genius, is no stranger to even more grandiose claims.
[22:35:12]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I am the chosen one.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: In the midst of all this, the president has been ranting about impeachment and calls to Congressional Republicans over the last few days and nights. That is according to multiple Republican sources who tell CNN he is furious. Another source, a Trump adviser, says the president is stunned and can't believe impeachment is happening. But let's cast our minds back for a moment, shall we? We're going to go back to 2008, and what one Donald J. Trump said to our very own Wolf Blitzer about impeachment. First he praises Nancy Pelosi. Really?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: When she first got in and was named speaker, I met her, and I'm very impressed by her. I think she's a very impressive person. I like her a lot.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Then he gets around to his own thoughts, his thoughts on impeachment and former president George W. Bush.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: But I was surprised that she didn't do more in terms of Bush and going after Bush. It was almost -- it just seemed like she was going to really look to impeach Bush and get him out of office, which personally I think would have been a wonderful thing.
WOLF BLITZER, WOLF AND THE SITUATION ROOM, CNN: Impeaching him?
TRUMP: Absolutely, for the war. For the war. BLITZER: Because of the conduct --
TRUMP: Well, he lied. He got us into the war with lies.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: With lies. And that wasn't the only time Donald Trump had impeachment on his mind. Just listen to what he said about the former President Barack Obama and impeachment. This was back in 2014.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Do you think Obama seriously wants to be impeached and go through what --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.
TRUMP: -- what Bill Clinton did? He would be a mess. He would be thinking about nothing but. It would be a horror show for him. It would be an absolute embarrassment. It would go down on his record permanently.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Ah, memory lane. It would go down on his record permanently. Now, where have I heard that before? Oh, yeah, it was right in this president's unhinged letter to Nancy Pelosi just last night. Quote, I write this letter to you for the purpose of history and to put my thoughts on a permanent and indelible record. Well, now impeachment is on his permanent record. Even if the president is acquitted at a Senate trial, even if he's acquitted, you can't be un-impeached.
Not a single Republican voted for impeachment today despite the facts being clearly laid out. The Republican Party is Trump's Party now. What does John Kasich have to say about that? Next.
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[22:40:00]
LEMON: Breaking news tonight, President Trump impeached by the House for abuse of power and obstruction of Congress. Joining me now to discuss, John Kasich, the former governor of Ohio. Good evening, governor. Good to see you. President Trump impeached.
FMR. GOV. JOHN KASICH (R-OH), CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Thank you, Don.
LEMON: Couldn't bully your blusters way out of this. What do you think?
KASICH: Well, my reaction is it's a really sad day. I mean I -- frankly I'm bummed out about the fact that this has happened. And then I looked at the fact that there wasn't one Republican that crossed over. I mean, it's just astounding. It was almost a straight party- line vote with a couple Democrats saying they weren't going to vote for it, but basically strict party line, which really shows us where the country is today.
I mean, we're so divided. And Don, it's really troubling for us, and, you know, it's just -- what can I say? It's just we're not in a great place in America. And you know, perhaps at the end we'll see what happens in the Senate. But then we're going to have an election, and hopefully when that's over, we can begin to get our act together. Because right now there's just -- there's too many people hating other people, and that doesn't work for our country.
LEMON: Yes. Listen, there was a little drama, a little surprise at the end because House Speaker Nancy Pelosi kind of slowed the next step tonight, saying that she wants to see a fair trial before they announce who the managers and before they send the articles of impeachment to the Senate. It sets up quite a battle between the two chambers, don't you think?
KASICH: Yes. You know, Don, I guess Steny Hoyer, who is really number two in the House, talked about this. I saw a clip somewhere. I mean I got a text or something saying that he had talked about this earlier. So, I think what probably they're thinking is, you know, probably gets down to people like Bolton. Will Bolton be called? I mean the Senate says -- the Senate majority says they don't want to call anybody. So, it's going to be interesting to see -- if there's pressure that rises. Does the public say get on with it, or does the public say we want more information?
Right now, Don, what has been astounding to me, frankly I've been wrong. I thought that the public would begin to support -- well, still a lot of Americans that want to see him impeached. But I didn't expect a continued partisan divide. Look, part of it -- I think part of it, blame goes on the Democrats, who I don't think entered this process in the right way.
I think they should have tried to get some expedited judicial hearings. I also think they should have gone and voted on the impeachment inquiry from the beginning. I told you that before. That being said, however, now, you know, this is done. Totally partisan. Was split down the middle. Country divided and we got to see what happens in the Senate. I don't know what their plan is but probably slowing it down so that they can put some pressure on the Republicans to not just ram this through quickly. That's what I think.
And then over in the Senate, of course, you've got what does Mitt Romney do? What does Lisa Murkowski do? What does Susan Collins do? And then there's the other interesting name that's come up, and that's a very widely respected gentleman by the name of Lamar Alexander. Former governor of Tennessee. Excellent governor. Now Senator. Former presidential candidate. A lot of people are wondering what he might do.
LEMON: You know, we've been paying close attention to all of this, you know, the rules vote, you know, what played out on the floor of the House and on and on and on. And we watched today. But let's go back to the House. You talked about the Senate and Lamar Alexander and all that. But House Republicans just unequivocally defending Trump throughout the day and just completely ignoring the facts in order to defend him. I want you to watch this.
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REP. TOM COLE (R-OK): Articles of impeachment based on an event that never happened. A purported quid pro quo that did not exist. Aid that was allegedly withheld that in reality was never withheld at all.
[22:45:11]
REP. JODY HICE (R-GA), HOUSE OVERSIGHT COMMITTEE MEMBER: The transcript speaks for itself. There was no quid pro quo.
REP. JIM BAIRD (R-IN): The president did not commit any crimes. He did not break any laws, and there was no quid pro quo.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: No doubt having to contort themselves like this, this is Trump's Party.
KASICH: Well, Don, here's the thing. I talked to a friend of mine today, and I said, listen, regardless of how you feel, the call was inappropriate. There isn't any question. The chief of staff to the president said, we do it all the time. To call a country, a fledgling country that's being basically invaded, their survival is at stake, and to say investigate my opponent, this friend of mine says, oh, well people do it all the time. They don't do it all the time.
And this is about inappropriate behavior, and it gets to be about what's the precedent that gets set in the future, both in terms of impeachment and, you know, this is a big statement about future presidents have to be careful. But to say nothing happened, that's the thing I can't believe. You might say impeachment is wrong, censure is wrong. I don't like what he's done. They're not even saying that. It's hard for me to understand that. I guess they don't want to go home and have people start chanting at their town halls that there's something wrong with them. I just don't understand that.
LEMON: John Kasich --
KASICH: Fair is fair.
LEMON: John, thank you very much. I appreciate it. If I don't see you, Merry Christmas. Thank you, sir.
KASICH: Thank you, Don. Thank you, Don Lemon. Merry Christmas.
LEMON: President Trump impeached by the House, his presidency changed forever as of tonight. And two men who have seen impeachment up close will give me their perspectives next. That's Carl Bernstein, He's here. John Dean is back with us.
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[22:50:00] LEMON: Our breaking news tonight, President Trump impeached by the
House of Representatives. Carl Bernstein, John Dean join me now. Gentlemen hello. Well, John welcome back. Carl, welcome -- and welcome to the show. Carl, I'm going to start with you. So, here we are. It's an enormous night in American history. You have been through this before. We have here tomorrow's headlines up. Look at that, Trump impeached. That's the Washington Post there. What are your thoughts on this? Impeach USA today. What are you thoughts?
CARL BERNSTEIN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: That the moment of gravity is so great, because we have a Republican Party that does not want to participate in the reality of what this president has done. And that's far different than we've had in other impeachments, particularly the Nixon impeachment.
The idea that given the grievous nature of this president's offenses, and what he's been accused of. Even if there are Republican who believe in fact he's innocent. The willingness of the Republicans to fall in line without any serious questioning, without any presentation of evidence of their own that would contradict what he would do, we are in a very, very dangerous place.
And also, what comes to mind watching Trump is that he is a demagogue in the bold of Joe McCarthy, but far more dangerous because he is the president of the United States. And again, going back to the Republican Party. There was mention made today earlier by someone on the air about a Senator who took on McCarthy from the Republican Party. And a great Senator who really challenged him and was the beginning of the end of McCarthy.
We've seen nothing like that from Republicans who understand, talk to us as reporters about his lying, about the fact, they know that he has not defended the constitution. Not most of these Republicans we saw today, but a good number in the Senate. A good number in the House to talk to us privately. This is extraordinary.
LEMON: John, tonight he was out at a rally. This was the longest rally speech of his presidency tonight. Speaking, you know, as Carl is saying, many Republicans know that he's lying and they know that he did something wrong. And tonight, I guess it's bothering him. Maybe I don't know why. But it was the longest speech. What do you make of that?
JOHN DEAN, CNN CONTRIBUTOR, FORMER NIXON WHITE HOUSE COUNSEL: He's clearly troubled by this. And he is not used to being told what he can and can't do. He spent his entire life getting away with whatever he wanted to get away with. And somebody is finally called him on it and put a real mark on his career that he didn't ever want or dream would happen. But he doesn't listen to anybody, so it's not surprising. And Carl is right. We need a Margaret Chase Smith to come forward.
BERNSTEIN: That's exactly the right person I was referring to.
(CROSSTALK)
DEAN: Right. We need someone like that to come forward. And take the colleagues down a notch and tell them, listen. This is a serious problem. This is our democracy that we're playing with. And we don't tolerate this kind of behavior in this country.
LEMON: Yes. Two articles of impeachment here. Obstruction of Congress and abuse of power. Equally as strong, Carl?
BERNSTEIN: Yes. Look, they're almost at the tip of the iceberg. You have to understand that this impeachment also is not just about Ukraine in the sense that it follows the Mueller investigation. All things go back to Putin in some way. Why is it that everything of consequence in terms of foreign affairs, that this president does, falls to the advantage of Vladimir Putin? Why does he constantly as in Ukraine, as with, he did in this phone call, do things to the advantage of Putin and Russia? That's the sub text of part of this. If you don't think the Senators know that and are worried about that. That's one of the things that really is going to come out to trial.
[22:55:16]
LEMON: Well, that's what Nancy Pelosi said. All roads lead to Putin, in one of her statements to the press. Thank you, gentlemen. I appreciate it. Again, a historic night. President Donald Trump impeached by the House of Representatives. And thank you so much for watching everyone. Our live coverage, today's historic impeachment vote continues with Anderson Cooper.
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