Return to Transcripts main page

Don Lemon Tonight

NYT: Adviser to White House Chief of Staff warned Congress would become unhinged if aid to Ukraine withheld; WH confirms Putin- Trump call one day after Kremlin revealed it; Putin invites Trump to visit Moscow in May; Iran warns of consequences after U.S. strikes in Iraq and Syria. Aired 10-11p ET

Aired December 30, 2019 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[22:00:00]

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: By the way, Times Square lines, they reversed their decision. They no longer have umbrellas so Andy likes to think of himself like the normal ray of Times Square. There's almost no chance of rain tomorrow night according to weather reports which I never really believe. Coverage kicks off tomorrow night 8PM live from Times Square. We go to 12:30. Don Lemon takes over just as he does right now. Let's turn it over to Don Lemon in CNN tonight.

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN HOST: This is CNN Tonight. I'm Victor Blackwell sitting in for Don Lemon. With the impeachment trial of President Trump moving when the Senate Rick reconvenes in January, new details are emerging about the administration's decision to withhold nearly $400 million in military aid to Ukraine.

The New York Times reporting that a month before the phone call where the President asks Ukraine's leader to investigate Trump's political rivals, a top adviser to White House Chief of Staff Mick Mulvaney warned Mulvaney that Congress will become unhinged if the money's withheld.

The Times also reports that top Trump officials including former National Security Adviser John Bolton, Defense Secretary Mark Asper and Secretary of State Mike Pompeo met in the Oval Office with the President in August in a previously undisclosed meeting.

They tried to get him to release the funds arguing it was in the country's best interest to do so, America's best interest but the President refused, calling Ukraine a corrupt country. A lot to talk about tonight with Boris Sanchez and Phil Mattingly. Good evening to you.

Boris, I want to start with you. In this New York Times reporting, Mulvaney has been near or at the center of this, this saga from the beginning but it's clear now that he was key in the operations to withhold the aid to Ukraine.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that's right Victor. He was effectively a conduit doing President Trump's bidding in trying to freeze this military aid to Ukraine and in that email exchange that you read a portion of when Mulvaney emails that aide, Rob Blair about tying up loose ends, it's clear that they both understand that this decision could have serious political implications and create problems for the White House.

Blair responds by saying that Congress can get unhinged, that this could potentially feed the narrative that President Trump is pro- Russia but Mulvaney decides to move forward anyway and he does so not just with Blair but with a number of other aides. Interestingly, Mulvaney has made the case to close associates that he didn't really know the substance of the call that President Trump had with President Zelensky of Ukraine until weeks later.

Though House testimony contradicts that and there is one interesting tidbit in this reporting that Mulvaney would often leave the room when President Trump was discussing Ukraine policy with his personal attorney Rudy Giuliani. It's still unclear exactly what Mulvaney knew and when he knew it but as you know Victor, he has refused to testify.

So these questions may go unanswered for some time.

BLACKWELL: Phil, we're also learning for the first time about this meeting where top Trump officials tried to convince the President to release the aid, the President dismissed them and reportedly this is what he said. Ukraine is a corrupt country. We are pissing away our money and this clearly goes against the GOP argument that there was no direct link to the President.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, there are really two things that struck me from the reporting of that meeting in the New York Times and the first was just how kind of obsesses the President was with this issue.

This issue that will become so personal to him as we've seen in testimony as we've talked - heard from Republican lawmakers that had spoken to President about this. It's so personal that his entire national security team, the highest levels of the country's national security establishment inside this administration told him that it was a bad idea continuing on the path that he was on and he still said no, we're staying on that path.

So that was one piece of it. The other one is just how little we know about what the President was thinking, doing and saying during this entire process. Look, you've had more than three month investigation, you had 17 people come in and testify in depositions and in the public hearings.

You have had some documents, not a ton of documents come in. And yet we still don't have a great sense of where the President was and what he was thinking. I think when you recognize that meetings like this were occurring that the President was involved in, you realize that there's still so much left to learn about everything that was happening even though we've learned quite a bit up to this point.

BLACKWELL: Boris, the President we know also spoke with Vladimir Putin on the phone yesterday. But we learned about this from the Russians, not the White House, why? SANCHEZ: Right. Well, the Kremlin put out a readout shortly after the

call took place. As you noted, it took place over the weekend. Both the White House and the Kremlin put out a statement. The read out from the White House coming this afternoon, not including nearly as many details as the Russian read out.

Interestingly, the Russians made clear that Vladimir Putin for the second time invited President Trump to attend Victory Day celebrations marking the 75th anniversary of the end of World War II in Russia. President Trump sort of toyed with the idea in November saying that it might be something that he's interested in but it would be coming in the middle of the 2020 campaign.

No official response yet from the White House as to whether he intends to make good on that invitation, Victor.

BLACKWELL: All right, Boris Sanchez, Phil Mattingly, thank you both. Now let's bring in James Clapper, the former Director of National Intelligence. Director Clapper, thanks for being with us tonight.

Let's start here what's your reaction to this New York Times reporting showing the President was very involved in this early operation to withhold the aid to Ukraine?

[22:05:00]

JAMES CLAPPER, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, Victor, to me - first of all, Happy New Year.

BLACKWELL: You too.

CLAPPER: First, the New York Times article assuming the reporting is accurate which has been pretty much a track record for the New York Times, kind of flushes out I think a lot of the specifics particularly, involving those in the immediate inner circle of the President which I think will and in fact already has fueled a fire on the part of the Democrats for the demand that these - some of these people testify in the course of the Senate impeachment trial.

The other thing it - it bothers me though is reading - reading through this, I couldn't help but think of the plight of the Ukrainians who were desperately in need of this security systems which you know, we've been providing to them since I don't know, 2014 or 2015 and so I couldn't help but think about that. While all this palace intrigue is going on in the White House.

BLACKWELL: There's the need for the Ukrainians but also there's this meeting where the President's top national security officials, you've got Esper, Pompeo, Bolton, all there, surrounding the resolute desk there in the Oval Office trying to explain to the President that this helps American interest.

How telling is that - that the President just ignored that?

CLAPPER: Well, it's to me, it's consistent. I don't think the President's particularly mindful of what the U.S. stake has been throughout this engaging with Ukraine ever since the Russians incursion and the seizure of Crimea and so I think for the President, it's - it's all about him and what the implications are for helping him you know get elected.

BLACKWELL: You know, back in 2017 there was the release of the photograph of the meeting in the Oval Office with Sergey Kislyak, Sergey Lavrov and the President that came from the Russians. We know that the President reportedly confiscated interpreters notes in his one on one meeting with Putin and now this weekend, there's this call between Presidents Putin and Trump and we hear about it from the Russians.

What's the significance, not only of this specific instance but the pattern that we're seeing between the communications of the President - President Trump and President Putin?

CLAPPER: Well, this has been a mystery and I think concern on the part of many about just what is the nature of the relationship between Russia generally and specifically, personally, between Putin and President Trump and so this this just adds to this cloud of mystery and concern about you know just what's going on here.

And I also observed that I think probably the White House is going to be extra careful about transcripts or reports, memorandums describing phone calls with any foreign leader particularly Putin.

BLACKWELL: So what about this invitation for President Trump to travel to Moscow? I think it's in May. We know the President has an affinity for strong men. What would be the potential impact of that - that image, that visit?

CLAPPER: Well, I don't think it will be very good personally but Putin knows that you know President Trump loves a parade and I think he - this would be another feather in Putin's cap having President Trump there as his guest sitting on Lenin's tomb, watching the marching legions of Russians go by and their new missiles and all that.

So this would be again, another way that Putin enhances his image and presents the picture of the being in co-equal with the President of United States and this is - this is - it's a big deal to Putin so I can understand why he'd extend the invitation more than once.

BLACKWELL: Director Clapper, let me ask you about the recent airstrikes in Iraq and Syria linked to Iranian backed up militia. Iran is now warning of consequences. Do you think this was the right call for the U.S.? Also should the U.S. expect retaliation?

CLAPPER: Well, yes and yes. I absolutely do think this is the right thing to do.

[22:10:00]

We lost an American, in this case a contractor was killed by this particular group which has a reputation for American blood on their hands so it was absolutely the right thing to do and I'm glad the administration - I'm glad they did it. And I also think that yes, there will be some form of retaliation at some point. It may not be immediate but that's kind of the way they do business. Eye for an eye.

BLACKWELL: Director Clapper, thanks for being with us tonight and Happy New Year to you.

CLAPPER: Thanks Victor. Thanks for having me.

BLACKWELL: Tonight, the top Democrat in the Senate is calling the revelations about the President's Ukraine policy, a game changer. He's demanding that documents and witnesses be part of the impeachment trial. We'll talk about it, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLACKWELL: In response to new reporting from The New York Times about President Trump's freezing aid to Ukraine, Senate minority leader Senate minority leader Chuck Schumer says this.

[22:15:00]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY): Simply put in our fight to have key documents and witnesses in the Senate impeachment trial, these new revelations are a game changer.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: Let's talk about it now with Elie Honig, Patrick Healy and Michael D'Antonio. Gentlemen, welcome. Patrick, first to you. Game changer?

PATRICK HEALY, POLITICS EDITOR, NEW YORK TIMES: Well, for Chuck Schumer the question is where can he get leverage? You know where can he get leverage in negotiations with Mitch McConnell, with the White House to get the witnesses and the documents that would really, I think just expand on our reporting tonight, reporting by others that basically showed that they were these - these two tracks.

These two tracks of a both confusion and chaos in which one track questions about Ukrainian aid and the President's desire wherever it was coming from to hold up that aid and the second you know, the investigations of the Bidens.

But this reporting just raises so many questions. The idea that Mick Mulvaney was leaving the room every time Trump was talking to Rudy Giuliani and then conflicts about that whether he actually knew before the phone call about the extent of the President's desire for the Ukrainian need to be held up.

These are questions that the House could not resolve. They weren't able to resolve it. They didn't have the witnesses, they didn't have the documents. The question is does - does Schumer and the Senate Democrats have the leverage to get it?

BLACKWELL: Elie, let's stay with Mick Mulvaney because an aide sent a message to him that said that Congress would be unhinged about this if this aid is put on hold. What does it tell you about how things were working in the White House?

ELIE HONIG, FORMER FEDERAL & STATE PROSECUTOR: It tells me the White House was clear eyed about this. You're damn right, Congress is going to be unhinged. Here you have the President undoing money that was - that Congress allocated.

You have the President doing something that is we now know abuse of power and potentially illegal so it shows that people in the White House were - were sensible enough to know that this was a huge problem and this meeting that we've just learned about is so important.

I mean other than the July 25 phone call between Trump and Zelensky, what could be more important than three of the top advisers, sitting with the President in the Oval Office, trying to get him to understand why he needs to release the aid and him saying no and the fact that we don't have testimony about that underscores just how damaging this obstructionism by the White House has been.

BLACKWELL: Michael, it's fantastic reporting it when you consider that you have Esper, you have Pompeo, you've got Bolton there standing around the resolute desk trying to plead their case to the President and he says no, we're just pissing our money away. What does that tell you?

MICHAEL D'ANTONIO, AUTHOR, THE TRUTH ABOUT TRUMP: Well, it's very consistent with who Donald Trump is. He's a very impurious man who doesn't actually take advice very well. The - when I was dealing with him a few years ago, what I heard was that maybe if Donald Junior Eric and Ivanka went in together and made a case and got other executives to come in, he might consider an alternative course of action.

But he delights in threatening people so this is an opportunity to threaten Ukraine with something and he also, I think thought he was getting one step ahead of everybody. It's well you think it's Russia, it's really Ukraine. Oh Biden's going to run against me. I'm going to crush him too.

So this was tantalizing to him. There's no way that these folks were going to talk him out of it and now we have to wonder are some of them trying to save themselves. You know, somebody made sure that these emails were seen. So maybe there are people who are concerned that their own reputations, maybe their own legal status is worth protecting.

HEALY: Just one more point about the meeting. It just goes to Donald Trump's deep distrust of what he still sees as the bureaucracy even though this is his Secretary of State, his Secretary of Defense who are coming in and he still believes that his own instincts for making in this case, sort of global foreign policy and be able to marry it with political concerts is greater than anyone else you know, anyone else's around him.

This is the frustration that John Kelly as Chief of Staff, Preibus Chief of Staff ran into, the ability to sort of control this President and be doing it with the instant of rule of law just isn't there. BLACKWELL: Let's talk about frustration to the different frustration

from the President and if you have an alert set for the President's tweets, I mean it's been flashing all day and night for the last week and a half. What - you see some of them on the screen, just some of the attacks on Democrats, Nancy Pelosi primarily.

Michael, are we seeing just frustration here or is this strategy?

D'ANTONIO: Well, it's - he's a profoundly frustrated Donald Trump right now but he's trying to give Nancy Pelosi, a nickname. He wants everybody to call her by this nickname which I don't think is going to stick.

[22:20:00]

She doesn't carry the same baggage that Hillary Clinton carried into 2016. He's looking for targets for 2020 so rubbing up the base, trying to create a person that they can hate and I think this is a challenge for him because Pelosi doesn't have that national standing.

Republicans have tried to demonize her over the years but she just isn't that appealing as a target so he's looking - he's looking for some enemy and he'll find it. We just got to give him time. He's a resourceful guy.

BLACKWELL: Elie, how much leverage does the Speaker really have? Since that news conference on the Thursday before they went to recess. I mean trying to understand what does she expect Mitch McConnell will do? We watched him for almost a year hold off on Merrick Garland. So he can - he has endurance.

HONIG: I'm with you, Victor. I'm trying to figure out what the strategy is here. I don't see it strategically from Nancy Pelosi's point of view. The one thing that I think she's trying to do and succeeding in doing is keeping attention on the fact that the Republicans want this to be a substance free trial and keeping attention on the fact that it's so important that there be witnesses and evidence.

But this tactic of I'm going to hold back the articles of impeachment does not fly legally. There's no provision for that in the constitution. The Senate has sole power to conduct an impeachment trial. She's got no leg to stand on. Legally and politically, I don't think she's scaring Mitch McConnell here.

He's got a very easy counter move which is you want to keep your articles, fine, you keep them, you can keep them forever or McConnell can just say fine, hold on to your articles. We're starting the impeachment on January, whatever. Be there or try to stop us and there's really nothing she can do.

But I get what she's fighting for here. The cause is a good one. The tactics, I don't think a very effective.

BLACKWELL: All right, Elie, Patrick, Michael, thank you all.

HONIG: Thanks Victor.

BLACKWELL: Up next, new information about the machete attack on people celebrating Hanukkah. Federal hate crime charges being filed against the suspect as we're learning about disturbing writings in his journal, we'll go live to the scene.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[22:25:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLACKWELL: The suspect in the stabbing attack at a rabbi's home during a Hanukkah party is now facing federal hate crime charges. Grafton Thomas appeared in federal court today while authorities revealed they discovered journals filled with anti-Semitic writings in the suspect's home and the attack comes as concerns are growing over a rise in anti- Semitic incidents across the country.

CNN's Sara Sidner joins us now with more. Sara, good evening to you. What do you know about these new charges?

SARA SIDNER, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Victor, the suspect of this vicious stabbing attack that happened here at the rabbi's house just behind me during Hanukkah. Those charges against him are now up to 11 charges. We know that he pleaded not guilty to 5 attempted murder charges and a burglary charge.

But now he faces 5 federal charges that are all hate crimes. Now those charges were brought today after investigators looked into some of the items that they got from where he was living, they said that inside of hand written journals they saw things, references to Hitler, references to Nazis and searches for synagogues in New York and New Jersey.

According to the complaint against Grafton Thomas, they also saw that he appeared to make reference to the black Hebrew Israelite movement. Now you'll remember that movement linked to one of the attackers that took part in the New Jersey shooting that took four lives at a Kosher Jewish market there.

That just happened this month as well and while investigators say there is evidence that they're saying that the suspect had anti- Semitic thoughts, the suspect's pastor and his defense attorney are saying that if he was responsible that he has a long history of mental illness.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAEL H. SUSSMAN, SUSPECT'S ATTORNEY: The FBI and law enforcement did extensive investigations through a search warrant at a home in Greenwood lake. We were able this morning to go to the home, Reverend Page and I and review scores of papers which frankly show the ramblings of a disturbed individual but there is no suggestion any of those ramblings and pages of writing an anti-Semitic motive of any anti-Semitism. (END VIDEO CLIP)

SIDNER: That is not how of course, federal prosecutors see it. He faced a second arraignment today on those federal charges, those 5 hate crime charges that are now being brought against him. Victor.

BLACKWELL: Sara, we're hearing the stories from people who were inside that home. What more have you learned about the attack itself and how it happened?

SIDNER: Yes, we met up with Joseph Gluck who was inside of the home and he says you know, we were there, we were celebrating the seventh night of Hanukkah together. We were enjoying each other. There were about a 100 people. We're talking about everyone from toddlers to people who are 80 years old, all coming together when a man entered, wielding what he thought was a sword or a huge knife.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOSEPH GLUCK, EYEWITNESS: When I first saw, he came in, I just saw him wielding his knife back and forth trying to hit the guys.

SIDNER: Did he say anything?

GLUCK: Nothing. He didn't say a word to anyone inside. He just spoke to me outside once.

SIDNER: What did he say?

GLUCK: Hey you, I'll get you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SIDNER: So Gluck says that he actually was able to leave the house but then realized there were so many more people still inside including children some of whom were hiding under coach on the floor, they were stuck in closets, hovering there waiting for the madness to stop.

He says he went back in and decided to fight.

[22:30:00]

He picked up whatever was around him which turned out to be a table and threw it into the suspect's face. Eventually the suspect leaving and Gluck says look, as I saw him walking out, I saw him walking towards the synagogue which is just next door, he was worried that he was trying to get into the synagogue so he followed him at a distance.

He ended up seeing the car that the suspect got into. He made sure he had a picture of the license and he shared the license number with police. Lo and behold about an hour later that license was picked up on the George Washington bridge on one of those license scanners and police were able to apprehend him within two hours of the attack.

That is very much due to this person who just had his mind right that he was going to do something and he was able to get that license plate, also able to help fight off the attacker.

Many others and they're throwing things like furniture, anything they could, it was a terribly bloody scene inside the home. We have seen the pictures. We have seen the video, it is horrific and this community is struggling.

BLACKWELL: Terrifying absolutely. Sara Sidner there for us in Monsey, thank you so much. Joining me now to discuss Evan Bernstein, the New York regional director for the Anti-Defamation League and Wajahat Ali. Evan, first to you.

Nine anti-Semitic incidents in just the last few days. Take us inside the community. What are the conversations and how's it changing daily life?

EVAN BERNSTEIN, NEW YORK - NEW JERSEY REGIONAL DIR, ANTI-DEFAMATION LEAGUE: You know, really if you look back to the last 2.5 weeks, it starts with the New Jersey city. Murders that took place, that are domestic terror, anti-Semitic and then you go into what took place last week where we had a spate of anti-Semitic attack and now here at the end of a Hanukkah, you had what took place in Monsey.

In all these the common denominator here is that the orthodox - ultra- orthodox community have been targeted. There's a tremendous amount of fear. There is - daily life has been completely disrupted and there's inability right now for people to reset themselves.

They don't know when the next attacks going to come. They don't know when they're going to be able to practice openly and freely without fear and you know, you have a lot of mothers and fathers right now and the conversations I've had that never expected to have these kind of conversations with their children about safety in this way.

And having to answer questions that no parent should have to answer to an 8 or 9-year old. It's really devastating for the community and they're reeling.

BLACKWELL: Wajahat, the statistics from the ADL show that anti-Semitic incidents soared between 2015 and 2018. What do you think is behind this?

WAJAHAT ALI, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Yes, so whenever you see hate and bigotry mainstreamed in America and Europe, anti-Semitism usually is flourishing and if you step back for a moment Victor, anti-Semitism, these conspiracy theories aren't unique to any geography or to America or to any political party.

There is a conspiracy theory unfortunately that has always blamed Jews and made them the victims that say that they are part of a global cabal. They are in power and they're trying to weaken society and if you see the 2018 midterm elections, I just want to give you one example.

You see Donald Trump in particular in the Republican Party helped mainstream an anti-Semitic white supremacist conspiracy theory that says that George Soros, a Jewish Hungarian billionaire is responsible for funding a caravan and invaders of immigrants and rapists and criminals and Muslims.

Well, what happened just a few weeks after that in November 2018? The worst domestic terror attacks against Jews in this country. Robert Bowers attacked the Tree of Life synagogue, killed 11 people, said all Jews must die and said he must attack the invaders.

And then you saw a few months later. He inspired another terrorist in San Diego and then you saw the globalization of this. That same conspiracy theory that says that Jews are a part of that global power, trying to weaken western society, that was a conspiracy theory of the Christ Church killer when he killed 50 Muslims.

So what we're witnessing is anti-Semitism driving white supremacy and the mainstreaming of these conspiracy theories predominantly by the Republican Party, specifically Donald Trump, I'm sorry to say this and the right wing party. Honestly now Victor is now mainstreamed, it's not a dog whistle.

You literally here on Fox news, on Right wing radio, Republican senators says George Soros - George Soros is responsible. Rudy Giuliani, the attorney of Donald Trump recently said what? That George Soros is supporting Marie Yovanovitch and I want to say this.

Fiona Hill, in her testimony said that this George Soros conspiracy theory is the modern particles of the elders of Zion and she's absolutely correct.

BLACKWELL: That these words mean something. Evan, to you the Rabbi there from the Tree of Life synagogue in Pittsburgh. 11 people were killed last year there. Spoke to CNN this morning. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RABBI JEFFREY MYERS, TREE OF LIFE SYNAGOGUE: It made me sort of wonder, I don't recall them selling licenses to have open hunting season on Jews but it sure can make Jews feel that way.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: Senate minority leader Chuck Schumer, you were with him earlier this evening. He's called for quadrupling from 90 million to 360 million grants, security grants to houses of worship. Is that the right start?

BERNSTEIN: I think it's the right start for it all.

[22:35:00]

We need all elected officials especially at the level of the federal level to come up with plans of action. Fund those plans and implement those plans and I think it's great. The Senator sure is doing that but I want to see other elected officials also targeting other areas of need with funding.

We need to get more young people. We're seeing the normalization of anti-Semitism and hate. We need to do more proactive work, on the ground, working with kids. We're seeing a rise of anti-Semitic incidents in K3-12 schools and on college campuses.

We need to do this earlier with young people. We need to get federal funding to do that. We need to also do more with law enforcement. Give them the resources they need to be able to respond to these kind of incidents that are taking place and get them trained on how to respond at the highest level.

They need to be supported as well so I think it's wonderful what Senator Schumer is doing. I think it's - but it's more important that others follow his lead and also target the areas of need that we're seeing.

BLACKWELL: All right, Evan, Wajahat, thank you both. Tonight a candlelight vigil was held by grieving members of the West Freeway church of Christ in White Settlement, Texas where two members of the church community were killed by gunmen during the service, yesterday morning.

The scene was harrowing and it was captured on video which I can tell you is disturbing to watch. The police chief says the shooter entered the church, sat down in the sanctuary just before 11:00 AM. And then he stood up, hold on a shot gun and killed two people.

The head of security at the church shot and killed the gunman.

Up next, Joe Biden asked if he'd consider a Republican running mate. We'll see what he says and he's taking knocks from Pete Buttigieg. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[22:40:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLACKWELL: Now to the state of the race. It's a countdown to the Iowa caucuses. Pete Buttigieg is going after front runner Joe Biden for voting in favor of the Iraq war when he was a senator. Let's talk about this now with Elaina Plott, national political reporter for The New York Times and Williams Jawando, former officials in the Obama White House. Welcome to you both.

Elaina, let's start here by listening to Mayor Buttigieg.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR PETE BUTTIGIEG (D-IN) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This is an example of why years in Washington is not always the same thing as judgment. He supported the worst foreign policy decision made by the United States in my lifetime.

JOE BIDEN, (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I believe that my judgment on how to proceed in anywhere from Afghanistan to Libya and what to deal with - how to deal with Syria, will stand the test of time.

BUTTIGIEG: I just don't believe that there's a justification for that vote.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: Does it appear Elaina that this criticism is as potent as it was in the 2008 race?

ELAINA PLOTT, NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER, NEW YORK TIMES: Victor, I don't get a sense based on my reporting, talking to voters, that this is something that's going to you know have a tremendous effect or really even a small effect on how people feel about Joe Biden. The thing is when you do have a track record as long as Joe Biden, yes, there is a lot to pick apart but there's also a lot of for knowledge in terms of what you're getting when you support somebody like the former vice President.

So you know, the reality is that it's not new in terms of you know, the public being largely aware that Joe Biden supported the Iraq war so if Pete Buttigieg wants to land this and have it make an impact, he's going to have to message it in such a way that feels new and different and not just the mere facts that this is the reality of Biden's record.

BLACKWELL: Will, the Vice President vowed a few months ago that he would not speak ill of another Democrat. You see this back and forth now with Buttigieg. He's getting some hits from Biden - from Sanders and Warren, I should say. Do you think he'll be able to hold to that?

WILLIAM JAWANDO, FMR OBAMA WHITE HOUSE OFFICIAL: Well, look I was in L.A. when he was literally crossing his arms and watching people fight in front of him and he held it there. You know, I would agree with my colleague on tonight that look, if you were to think back to that vote, that authorization, 29 of 50 Democratic senators, almost 60 percent voted for that authorization including our last Democratic Presidential nominee Hillary Clinton.

And so while there are some hardcore folks that remember that and look, if I was in the senate, I wouldn't have voted for it and - but I think that issue has been put to bed. People will acknowledge that it was the wrong decision. Vice President Biden has acknowledged that.

And so I don't think people are going to be voting on that. It's particularly it's not a great attack for Buttigieg who's trying to claim that same moderate kind of leaning space where Biden is so I don't think it's going to have a huge impact.

BLACKWELL: We'll play something else that the former vice President said today when asked if he would consider picking a Republican running mate.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My 21-year old son said the other night I wonder if Joe Biden will consider choosing a Republican as running mate.

BIDEN: The answer is I could but I can't think of one now. We got some really decent Republicans that are out there still but here's the problem right now. Of the well-known ones, they've got to step up.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: Does this resonate Elaina, let me start with you on this. Is this what the base wants to hear potentially a bipartisan ticket?

PLOTT: I think this is the sort of a line Victor that you've seen Joe Biden message in terms of you know ethos, time and time again on the trail that make a lot of primary voters and strategists for other campaigns you know, bearish about his chances of winning this nomination because a line like that is not necessarily speaking to the Democratic base at this point in time.

[22:45:00]

I certainly haven't spoken to a voter who is looking for a Republican vice Presidential nominee from Joe Biden so I'm not sure if other reporters have but it's the sort of thing where I think he wants to advance this tone of moderation, this tone of you know, yester year congeniality across the aisle.

But it's just a you know, in the Trump era, it's not something that I hear from voters that they're looking for.

BLACKWELL: Will, as we wrap up here, I know that you are close with Congressman John Lewis. He announced that he is fighting Stage 4 pancreatic cancer. What's your reaction to hearing that?

JAWANDO: Heartbroken you know, I had - have had the opportunity over my career on the hills and in the White House and as an elected official to have the support and mentorship of Congressman Lewis.

He is a great man. He is a legend not just an American hero but a hero on this earth. If anyone can beat this disease, it's him but I know you know he lost his wife a number of years ago and he - he like Dr. King and many others, he's ready to go when God calls him home and he's going to work all the way till the end.

And so I think all of us what he said this is the fight of his life, we just have to pray and support him and he's made his mark and will continue to do so.

BLACKWELL: So soon after losing Congressman Cummings now to hear this. We need that booming voice for civil rights in Congress and Elaina--

JAWANDO: And more leadership.

BLACKWELL: - Will, thank you both. We'll be right back.

PLOTT: Thank you Victor.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[22:50:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BLACKWELL: This Wednesday night, New Year's day, you do not want to

miss the new CNN film, 'Linda Ronstadt: The Sound of My Voice.' 10 Grammys, 11 platinum albums and the first woman to simultaneously top the pop country and R&B. charts. Ronstadt is a legend.

Now 'Linda Ronstadt: The Sound Of My Voice' tells the inside story of her meteoric rise to fame and exploration of every genre from rock to opera. Here's a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you will read.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK, and the winner is Linda Ronstadt.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Linda was the queen. She was like what Beyonce is right now.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She was the first female rock and roll star.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She was the only female artist to have five platinum albums in a row. And most of the multi-platinum.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Favorite female in rock and pop.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Favorite country single, Blue Bayou by Linda Ronstadt.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And the winner is Linda Ronstadt.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And the winner is Linda Ronstadt.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: Don Lemon recently sat down with figure Erin Nevil who collaborated with Ronstadt on the Grammy winning song, 'Don't know much' among others.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DON LEMON, CNN HOST: Joining us now singer Aaron Neville. Thank you and I really appreciate you joining us here You first met Linda.

AARON NEVILLE, SINGER & MUSICIAN: It's a pleasure.

LEMON: You first met her when she came to one of your performances in New Orleans. You ended up bringing her up on stage to sing with you. What was that like?

NEVILLE: Oh, it was great. I mean you know like she was at a world fair in 1984 and she heard that we were playing and she came to see us. I dedicated a song to her and called her on stage.

She said, I don't usually don't do that but I wasn't going to say no to the brothers you know. LEMON: Your voices, I mean, they blended so well together. You worked with her on a number of projects. Why did you want to collaborate with her or was it just because you guys meshed so well?

NEVILLE: Well, she came down the next year, myself and Allen Toussaint had started this benefit thing called 'New Orleans Artists against hunger and homelessness.' And I called her down to do that with us and she came down and we were down at Allen Toussaint's studio and we sang Ave Maria together in harmony.

And she said, we need to do something together and I said, hey, I'm game so it took a couple of years but it was right on time.

LEMON: What's your favorite song you sang with Linda?

NEVILLE: I'd pick, 'Don't know much.' I mean, that was the first Grammy we got together you know, which we did got a Grammy on 'All my Life' also.

LEMON: Yes, you know, like I said your voices work so well together. Why do you think that is?

NEVILLE: I don't know. She said at our voices were married. That we sang together in another life.

LEMON: You know, it's - when you find something like that, I remember when you know Patty and Michael did their thing together and their voices really meshed together and yours and Linda but when that happens, I mean, it's really magic. You got to capitalize on that.

NEVILLE: Oh, no doubt. I mean when we did the song in the studio, when we finished, I said let me the Grammys. I was joking but not joking because you know it was that type of some.

LEMON: You know sadly now Linda has Parkinson's. She no longer performs publicly now. That's devastating for a musician.

NEVILLE: It's devastating for me. You know like I talked to her maybe once a week or so and just remind her that she is one of the greatest singers of all time. Her voice, when I'm on a long trip I usually put her, Cry like a Rainstorm album on and it brings me all kind of emotions You can think of really.

LEMON: What is her mark on the music industry and pop culture in general?

NEVILLE: She owns it. You know like, I can't think about anybody else that could be in her shadow, really and I watched the movie and I just like found out more than I already knew about her and it just blew me away. You know, much respect and you know, it's like she's just phenomenon.

[22:55:00]

LEMON: Yes, she's a legend and in her own time really. Listen, I'm going to call you homeboy because I'm from Louisiana. So thank you homeboy for doing this. I appreciate it.

NEVILLE: You're welcome home.

LEMON: Enjoy and happy new year to you, OK.

NEVILLE: Same to you. Be well and be safe.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: Don Lemon there was singer Aaron Neville. Be sure to tune in. CNN films, 'Linda Ronstadt: The Sound of My Voice' premieres New Year's day 9:00 PM on CNN and tomorrow night's the big night.

It's New Year's eve. Ring it in with Anderson Cooper and Andy Cohen live in Times Square. Plus Don Lemon, Brooke Baldwin live from Nashville with appearances by Christina Aguilera, Lenny Kravitz, Jack, Lindsay Lohan and a whole lot more. You do not want to miss it. It all starts at 8:00 PM right here on CNN.

Thanks for watching our coverage continues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)