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Don Lemon Tonight
Documents Show the Dots to Lev Parnas' Communications; President Trump Claims he Doesn't Know Parnas at All; Republican Congressman Admits After Denying; New Book, In 2017 Trump Called Top Military Brass A Bunch Of Dopes And Babies; Washington Post Poll Eight In 10 Black Voters Say Trump Is Racist; House Democrats Release New Documents From Giuliani Associate; New Documents Show Communications Between Lev Parnas And Aide To GOP Rep. Devin Nunes. Aired 10-11p ET
Aired January 17, 2020 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[22:00:00]
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST: 83 percent believing he is racist, that Trump thinks the economy will boost him with those voters but blaming both sides for violence in Charlottesville and so much other ugly talk matters. Bolo. Some things matter more than money.
Thank you for watching. Have a great weekend. But before you party, CNN Tonight with D. Lemon right now.
DON LEMON, CNN HOST: I'm breaking down that poll that is. It's an Ipsos. Washington Post/Ipsos poll. We're going to break all of all down. But what happened to all of these polls that they're pointing out saying well, the president numbers among African-Americans they're growing. He's 35 percent. We know better than that.
CUOMO: Well, look, here's what he's got going. If he can get like 19 African-Americans to vote for him. It will be a boost. You know, it's a little bit of a relative assessment. But the idea that nobody has been better for the blacks than I have.
LEMON: Please.
CUOMO: They know what he said.
LEMON: The blacks.
CUOMO: They know what he encourages.
LEMON: I know you are saying the blacks because he says it.
CUOMO: Yes.
LEMON: Because I have never in my life heard you say the blacks.
CUOMO: No. No.
LEMON: Because you know what I would do to you.
(CROSSTALK) CUOMO: But that's what he says.
LEMON: If I ever heard you say the blacks. There would be a footprint.
CUOMO: There would be black eyes.
LEMON: So, there would be shoe print --
CUOMO: Two blacks. Two black eyes on my face.
LEMON: So big on your rear end.
CUOMO: But that's the talk. That's the talk he talks.
LEMON: I know. That's what he says.
CUOMO: And look, some people say it's generational, Chris. Whatever. He's president man.
LEMON: It's not generational.
CUOMO: You have to be the best of us. Not the residue of the rest of us.
LEMON: Well, its ignorance is not generational. I mean, you, if you're the president of the United States you should have people educate you. You should be -- you should want to be educated. You shouldn't be calling people the blacks and you should be yelling where's my African-American? What else do you have to lose?
By the way, that phrase, if you look into the poll and the story. It turned off so many African-Americans. And in that poll African- Americans say this economy that he touts so much and says that he's responsible for, they don't believe he's responsible for it. They do give credit to the former president, Barack Obama for the economy and they say pretty much they give credit more than anything to themselves for the economic responsibility.
CUOMO: Working hard.
LEMON: For working -- yes, there you go.
CUOMO: Picking up savings. Finding different avenues. No question about it. Personal industry is the best industry in America.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: Look, I have no problem with the president getting credit for the economy. When the economy is good the president benefits.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: When it's down, he loses no matter who is responsible. But the idea that the economy eclipses everything else. That's what they're arguing now about impeachment. LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: It can't be abuse of power. You can't impeach him because the economy is good.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: One has nothing to do with the other and especially with minority groups. You say people of color should go back to where they come from. You know what he called countries that have predominantly brown skinned people in them. You know what I'm talking about immigrants.
LEMON: S-hole countries. Yes. So, you know, listen, as a person of color who has this particular platform. And you remember what happened. Do you remember when I said the president of the United States was racist. I opened up the show by saying that. I got a whole lot of gaffe.
But you know what? Ninety percent of African-Americans believe that and feel that in this country. And I speak for those people especially with the rhetoric coming out of the of the president's mouth.
So, there you go. And now the poll, the polls backs it up.
CUOMO: Now we'll see.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: We'll see what the voting does. We'll see what the Democrats can do to harness the needs not just the animus.
LEMON: This isn't about a Democrat or Republican thing for people of color. This is just about living in America as a black person.
CUOMO: Right.
LEMON: That's what this is about.
CUOMO: But as you well know a lot of African-Americans believe that sometimes they vote for Democrats as the lesser of two bad choices.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: And while it's true that they do vote Democratic across the country.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: And now this argument will be as it is every election cycle. Look what those inner cities communities are like. This is what Democrats have done to you. It's disingenuous. Because the pressure comes from the top down.
But I still think African-Americans and a lot of other minority communities and some white communities that feel disaffected that the system is against them who will win those hearts and minds.
CUOMO: Yes. Well, they may sit at home and the turnout may -- the turnout may be suppressed.
CUOMO: That matters.
LEMON: Because if they're not inspired by the candidate. But I'll tell you who they won't vote for. They won't vote for the party who has a leader that says there are very fine people on both sides.
CUOMO: yes.
LEMON: I have to go.
CUOMO: I hear you.
LEMON: Have a great weekend.
CUOMO: Have a great show. Have a great weekend.
LEMON: Thank you very much.
This is CNN Tonight. I'm Don Lemon.
Now we have some breaking news tonight. With the impeachment trial of President Trump about to get underway more and more new evidence continues to come out. Evidence of the Ukraine shake down.
Tonight, brand new revelations from Giuliani associate Lev Parnas including WhatsApp messages that appear to show Connecticut congressional candidate Robert Hyde texting with a number from Belgium about efforts to surveil then Ambassador Marie Yovanovitch.
[22:05:06]
The Belgian number sends Hyde a screen shot of a official photo of Yovanovitch with the message "my contacts are checking." And then adding "I will give you the address next week." Hyde replies, "awesome."
In another series of messages, the Belgian numbers says, "nothing has changed. She is still not moving. They checked today again." OK. Adding shortly after "it's confirmed we have a person inside."
There are always messages between Parnas and an aide to Congressman Devin Nunes -- also messages stream that Congressman Devin Nunes messages in which they arrange interviews with Ukrainian officials and apparent meetings at the Trump hotel in Washington including with Rudy Giuliani.
That comes after Nunes admitted this week that he has spoken to Parnas on the phone after all. Everybody said they didn't know. Right? He previously said that that very unlikely. And as that new evidence of contacts between Parnas and an aide to Nunes is revealed there is this. There's Congressman Ted Lieu. He says Nunes has threatened to sue him
for saying Nunes worked with Lev Parnas. Here's Lieu's reply. "I welcome any lawsuit from your client and look forward to taking discovery of Congressman Nunes. Or you can take your letter and shove it."
Didn't Nunes threaten to sue a cow? Something like that.
And there's more new evidence tonight. The House Judiciary Committee releasing 15 photos of Lev Parnas with President Trump, Rudy Giuliani and other members of team Trump including this photo of the president, the president's and Parnas' name tag side by side. There it is. Look at it. Side by side on a conference table.
The president and Parnas together. A thank you note signed by the president and the first lady. Rudy Giuliani. Parnas and others with an Indiana GOP banner in the background. Parnas and Don Jr. at a dinner table. And Parnas and the president pictured in front of two American flags. It's getting harder and harder for the president to claim that he knows nothing about Parnas even though he keeps trying. And remember he just, you know, he said this yesterday. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I don't know him. I don't know Parnas other than I guess they had pictures taken which I do with thousands of people including people today that I didn't meet. But just met them. I don't know him at all. Don't know what he's about. Don't know where he comes from. No nothing about him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Nope. Nope. Don't know him. That's an awful lot of evidence. Evidence you would think senators would want to ask questions about in the trial. Witnesses you would think they'd want to question.
yet, the president's Republican defenders are still fighting against calling witnesses. Even though the president himself said just last month that he loved to have witnesses testify in the Senate trial.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: When it's fair and it will be fair in the Senate, I would love to have Mike Pompeo. I'd love to have Mick. I'd like to have Rick Perry. And many other people testify.
I want them to testify. But I want them to testify in the Senate where they'll get a fair trial.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: It seems the president has forgotten all about that now that the Senate trial is actually beginning. I've got say the hypocrisy of all of this is pretty blatant. The hypocrisy of the Republicans trying to keep witnesses out when they made the opposite argument during the impeachment trial of a Democrat. The hypocrisy of proudly proclaiming you're not impartial.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY): I'm not impartial juror. This is a political process.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): I'm not trying to pretend to be a fair juror here.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Then raising your right hand and taking an oath to do impartial justice.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN ROBERTS, SUPREME COURT CHIEF JUSTICE: Do you solemnly swear that in all things appertaining to the trial of the impeachment of Donald John Trump, President of the United States, now pending, you will do impartial justice according to the Constitution and laws, so help you God?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: So, they raise their right hands right there and then they sign the oath book. We all watched them do it. And then there's the president's made for TV legal team including Kenneth Starr whose investigation of President Bill Clinton led to the last impeachment trial.
Just listen to what he said to he had to say back then about a president who refused to cooperate with the investigation.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KENNETH STARR, WHITEWATER INDEPENDENT COUNSEL: The president refused six invitations to testify before the grand jury.
[22:09:57]
Refusing to cooperate with a duly authorized federal criminal investigation is inconsistent with the general statutory duty of all executive branch employees to cooperate with criminal investigations.
It also is inconsistent with the president's duty to faithfully execute the laws.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: That was then. Now he is representing President Trump who is continually stonewalling and refusing to allow his aides to testify and refusing to turn over documents.
But back in the 90s during the Clinton impeachment there were people who disapproved of Ken Starr.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I think Ken Starr is a lunatic. I really think that Ken Starr is a disaster. I hated the way the president handles it. It was a long and terrible process. I really think that Ken Starr was terrible.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Now -- you can't make this stuff up. Now he is welcoming the man he once called a lunatic to his defense team. The team defending him at the most consequential moment of his life. He called him a lunatic.
And there's another blast from the past today. Monica Lewinsky weighing in without explicitly though Kenneth Starr, tweeting, and I'm quoting here. "This is definitely an are you f-ing kidding me kind of day."
It is, Monica. All this, all these new developments. All this new evidence with the impeachment trial of President Trump set to get underway Tuesday 1 p.m.
Shimon Prokupecz is here. He's got our breaking news. New evidence released by House Democrats tonight. Shimon, welcome. Thank you so much. Boy, Kenneth Starr, Monica Lewinsky, Bill Clinton and Donald Trump. We've heard from a lot of folks. It's the 90s all over again.
But we got some new documents here from Parnas. It shows text messages that appear to be more evidence that Ambassador Yovanovitch was surveilled while in Ukraine. What do you learn?
SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE REPORTER: It's certainly troubling. And just to remind, you know, viewers and people of what was going on here. There's -- there was a plot here to remove her to get her out of the Ukraine.
And certainly, with tonight's latest revelations, it looks like this was much more involved than we all probably thought at first. This introduction of this new person this congressional candidate Robert Hyde out of Connecticut introduces a whole new element that we have not seen or heard from before.
And now that we had the Parnas text from him and Parnas where they were talking about conducting surveillance of the Ukrainian ambassador. But now we have an additional piece of information where Mr. Hyde is talking to someone on a Belgium number and they're talking about where is she. Is she in the embassy? All sorts of back and forth.
No one in the federal government certainly is discounting this. No one has come out. I've talked to people today all are taking this pretty seriously. The FBI is investigating this. FBI agents have been to his home. The Southern District of New York is investigating this plot.
What was going on behind the scenes back channel efforts to try and get the Ukrainian ambassador out of the country. That is all under investigation. And this just raises more questions. Certainly, very troubling that you had an ambassador, a U.S. official people were talking about conducting surveillance on her. People wanting her out of the country. Why?
And that is all part of what this investigation by the Southern District of -- Southern district of New York is trying to do.
LEMON: We don't know what was going on. But it sounds in the surface very sinister and scary.
PROKUPECZ: Very sinister.
LEMON: I've got to ask about these new documents that also show these communications because he denied them. I'm talking about Devin Nunes.
PROKUPECZ: Right.
LEMON: These communications between Parnas and an aide to congressman, Republican Congressman Devin Nunes. How much contact was the congressman -- congressman's office having with Parnas?
PROKUPECZ: It seems like a lot. When you look at the information that came out today. You're talking about text messages from a senior aide to Devin Nunes talking to Parnas about arranging interviews with Ukrainians. Information there.
There's a March 2019 exchange where they talk about materials. Can we get materials? This is the aide to Devin Nunes asking Parnas for materials on dirt that they're supposedly digging up on the Bidens and there's this whole back and forth.
And then there's this whole thing there's meetings at the Trump hotel in Washington, D.C. where this aide to Devin Nunes is present. Rudy Giuliani is there.
[22:15:02]
So we're seeing more and more signs that at least Devin Nunes, his office was in the mix on this, was heavily involved in all of this.
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: Is Nunes admitting to it now having communication?
PROKUPECZ: He is admitting just on Wednesday after initially denying that he had any communications with Parnas, says I do remember now. There was this -- there was some communication with Parnas.
LEMON: There's also photographs in these documents that show Parnas closely tied to Rudy Giuliani. And pictures of an event that he and the president apparently attended.
PROKUPECZ: They attended. There are name tags. Right? More evidence perhaps that these guys actually did know each other despite the president claiming that he didn't know him.
They're on your screen you see there's a name tag, right, Lev Parnas, and right to the left of that is Donald Trump's name. Now we don't know if they actually sat next to each other.
LEMON: Or if he showed up.
PROKUPECZ: Or if he showed up. But here, the fact is we keep seeing photos of the president's family. People close to the president, people close -- senior people in the Republicans Party.
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: Thank you notes. Rudy Giuliani on a boat with Parnas.
PROKUPECZ: Thank you notes, all sorts of --
LEMON: Yes.
PROKUPECZ: -- photos. He's inside this circle. So how can the president say that he doesn't know who he is when there are all these photos when he's at all these events with the president. Again, this is why this is all being released. Right? They're trying to show that the idea that somehow the president didn't know who this guy was very hard to believe. Because so many people inside the president's inner circle certainly knew him.
LEMON: Well, the president he says he didn't know him. The folks in the president's inner circle and Rudy Giuliani --
(CROSSTALK)
PROKUPECZ: Certainly Rudy Giuliani.
LEMON: -- certainly knew who he was and had close relations with him. Thank you so much. I appreciate it. I appreciate that, Shimon.
Like I said, President Trump has a team of made for TV lawyers to defend him in the impeachment trial. One of them was on three TV networks just tonight. Is it a sign of things to come?
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(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: President Trump stocking the defense team for his impeachment trial for made for TV lawyers including Kenneth Starr, the former independent counsel whose investigation led to President Clinton's impeachment. Also, Alan Dershowitz and Robert Ray. They joined Trump's personal attorney Jay Sekulow and former Florida attorney, Attorney General Pam Bondi as seen on television.
Just tonight, Alan Dershowitz did three interviews with team led by Pat Cipollone who isn't a TV guy. And also includes Jane Raskin and Eric Hershman.
Let's discuss now with defense attorney Mr. Joe Tacopina and Bradley Moss, a national security attorney. Thank you, gentlemen. I appreciate you joining us. Speaking of TV lawyers, you guys are on television. I don't know, does that make you TV lawyers? JOE TACOPINA, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You know, it does. But being a TV lawyer and a trial lawyer are not mutually exclusive.
LEMON: Yes.
TACOPINA: Remember that.
LEMON: All right. Let's talk about that then, Joe. Listen, Kenneth Starr, Alan Dershowitz, Robert Ray as seen on TV team?
TACOPINA: For sure. I mean, there's no doubt. Trump wants lawyers who are going to do sound bites well and to be out there because he wants to persuade --
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: The court of public opinion.
TACOPINA: -- the court of public opinion. Because at the end of the day the verdict is already in this case. I mean, this is a bit of a mockery in the sense that it's a political process masquerading as a legal process.
There's zero chance we're going to be stunned by a verdict. You know, you need two-thirds of the Senate. Majority of the Senate is Republican. Verdict is in. You know, despite all their oaths that they take about impartially judging the facts and law in this case, I mean, it's just -- we know it's not the case. McConnell said so.
LEMON: Yes. Let's bring Bradley in. And Bradley, no doubt President Trump considered media savviness when picking his team. I think Joe is right on that court of public opinion. Dershowitz obviously is a constitutional expert too. What does it say about the president's strategy?
BRADLEY MOSS, NATIONAL SECURITY ATTORNEY: Yes. Well, you know, when I heard this news that, you know, earlier today we saw these people being picked. I almost -- I had a sports analogy pop in my head. It's like they picked the (Inaudible) pro-team of 1995 and said yes, those guys were great back then let's bring them on now. It's only been 25 years.
You know, look, Alan Dershowitz, Ken Starr these guys were certainly capable qualified lawyers back in the day. When I was probably in high school. But Alan Dershowitz hasn't practiced since the days of Jeffrey Epstein getting a sweetheart deal. Ken Starr was last seen being run out of Baylor University in a scandal.
They are there because, you know, as my colleague has said, that they're there because they're good at media messaging, that they're there because this is cable news. That's what the president consumes on a regular basis and that's what they know -- that's what they know that they can do in segments on late night television. Their legal skills at this point I don't know how much they're really there for that. LEMON: Let's talk a little bit more, Joe, the president -- President
Trump once called Ken Starr a lunatic, Joe. And now he has picked him to defend him. I mean, that's really something, don't you think?
TACOPINA: Not in the world of politics is that something. I mean, President Trump once called Hillary Clinton the greatest secretary of state of all time. I don't think he would say that today. As a matter of fact, I think he has said otherwise today.
So, I mean, it's politics, you know. What this goes to show you is how many easily people flip sides depending on the political party involved. I mean, you know, 20 years ago the Democrats were talking about a witch hunt. And today they're talking about the importance of rule of law.
LEMON: Yes.
TACOPINA: Twenty years ago, the Republicans were talking about the rule of law and how important it is and today they're talking about a witch hunt. That's politics for you. And I mean, people flip sides and switch sides no matter what.
LEMON: Yes. Bradley, McConnell and others are saying that they are using like speaking of, you know, Joe just said 20 years ago. They're speaking of talking about using the Clinton impeachment as an example. But I mean, are they?
In the Clinton trial, there were 24-hour -- 24 hours of arguments divided over four days on each side. Now the Republicans are considering just 12-hour days. They're trying to shorten this thing.
MOSS: Yes. So, I mean, the essence tough of what McConnell is getting at is the idea of, you know, doing these arguments up front both sides can present their case, isn't it, then they decide on witnesses an additional information.
[22:25:02]
What, of course, the Senate majority leader is omitting here is before Bill Clinton was put on trial before the Senate there was a years' long investigation with grand jury authority run by Ken Starr.
We didn't get to have any of that here. We had to address this in advance on November 2020 because the president was trying to bring interference in the upcoming election in which he is a candidate. So, we didn't have all that information.
What will happen here, that remains to be seen. It certainly appears there will be additional witnesses. I think there's enough support within certain moderate elements in the Republican caucus in the Senate to bring in witnesses and information. It remains unclear how much additional information.
LEMON: So, to you, Bradley, do you think that this will affect the outcome of the predetermined outcome that they -- that it appears McConnell and others have already made? MOSS: I think it's unlikely unless some kind of massive bomb shell
so, you know, unprecedented that we can't fathom it akin to Nixon in the 70s comes out with testimony from Bolton. I'm not expecting anything like that.
LEMON: And Joe, you've already said you don't think so as well. But do you think that will affect maybe the outcome or could affect the outcome of the election, the upcoming election?
TACOPINA: That's for sure. I mean, as I've said you could take three law students and put them as Trump's lawyers in this case. They're going to win. Could it affect the election? Absolutely. Depending on what comes out and how badly he's made to look, what kind of liar he's made to look. That will -- it should, I should say. It should affect.
But, you know, again, the people who voted for Trump they're locked in.
LEMON: Yes.
TACOPINA: I mean, there could be a video of him murdering somebody.
LEMON: As he said Fifth Avenue.
TACOPINA: I think he actually said that. Right. He'd still get those votes.
LEMON: Yes.
TACOPINA: So.
LEMON: Gentlemen, thank you. Have a great weekend. I appreciate you guys coming in.
TACOPINA: Thank you, Don.
MOSS: Thank you.
LEMON: The president called military leaders, quote, "a bunch of dopes and babies." That's according to a new book. He complained that U.S. companies aren't allowed to pay bribes overseas. And the officials who heard all of this, while, the so-called adults in the room kept it all quiet for a long time. That's next.
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(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Excerpts released from the upcoming book, A stable genius revealed disturbing details about a tirade by the president against his top military leaders during the July 2017 briefing in a room known as the tank at the Pentagon. Here's a quote, it says, Trump unleashed his distain calling Afghanistan a loser war. That phrase hung in the air and disgusted not only the military leaders at the table, but also the men and women in uniform sitting along the back wall behind their principles. They all were sworn to obey their commander in chief's commands and
here he was calling the war they had been fighting a loser war. You're all losers, Trump said. You don't know how to win anymore. Trump by now was in one of his rages. HE was so angry that he wasn't taking many breaths. I wouldn't go to war with you people. Trump told the ensemble brass. Addressing the room, the commander in chief barked, you're a bunch of dopes and babies.
Joining me now, Catherine Rampell and Max Boot. Good evening. Max, no other way to describe this in the book is outrageous, it's offensive, its unhinged. It's disrespectful. It's ignorant. Yet every person in that room has essentially stayed silent about this. It has been hidden from the American people. How can they justify this?
MAX BOOT, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Well, I think it was appalling. And I do think that they had an obligation to speak out. And you know, one of the -- my takeaways from this is that I'm almost sorry that I was so hard on Rex Tillerson. Because I still think that he was a terrible Secretary of State. But he was the only person in that room who had the guts to speak up and tell Trump, you are wrong. You're out of line and then of course, he had that famous quote. Calling Trump a moron. Which was then reported and soured his relationship with Trump.
LEMON: F'ing moron.
BOOT: A F'ing moron, thank you for correcting me, Don. But you know, I think the more that we learn about what happened there, the more we can see why Tillerson called him a F'ing moron. And why that was amply justified. Because it is clear, it is crystal clear the president does not understand how American alliances work or the benefits we derive from them.
He doesn't understand how the funding of NATO works. And he cannot sit there and comprehend a briefing or they are trying to set him straight. It doesn't compute. He just can't handle that. And the final point that I would make that comes across from this is Donald Trump is fundamentally antimilitary. We already knew that, because he's pardoning war criminals. Which is (inaudible) a real soldiers. But you know, the disrespect that he shows to the men and women in uniform. They are calling them dopes and babies. This was a guy who was a draft dodger. OK. He is talking about men and women who have risked their lives for this country. And spent decades of service on the front lines, defending our country. And he's calling them dopes and babies? That is obscene. He has no standing to be doing that.
LEMON: But Max, he did had bone spurs.
BOOT: Yes, there you go, I forgot.
CATHERINE RAMPELL, CNN POLITICAL REPORTER: He can't remember which foot they were in, but he had them.
LEMON: But here's the thing though. This is what Max was talking about. In the book that he (inaudible) Trump tirade of how U.S. troops should make money from its troops. Saying this, Catherine, no, this is what Tillerson said. No, it's just wrong, the Secretary of States said, Mr. President. You're totally wrong. None of that is true. The men and women who put on a uniform don't do it to become soldiers of fortune. That's not why they put on a uniform and go out and die. They do it to protect our freedom. It is really astounding the president would say this. But it's also --
(VIDEO CUT)
[22:35:00]
RAMPELL: -- is being able to make money off of our soldiers apparently. He's happy to put an 18 year-old kid in harm's way. As long as the highest bidder, you know, deposits money in someone's bank account. Maybe he's bank account, maybe whatever the United States bank account looks like in his imagination. But he perceives our soldiers not as men and women of honor, of sacrifice, of service. But as mercenaries. And I think that's a fundamental problem with his world view and how he runs our foreign policy.
LEMON: I want to read another incident described in the Times review speaking to his aid. Trump reportedly said, it is just so unfair that American companies aren't allowed to pay bribes to get business overseas.
RAMPELL: He's been complaining about that for decades.
LEMON: I mean, it's jaw dropping. You know, the other morning at the White House economic adviser, Larry Kudlow said this. Let's just watch this.
Do we have it? OK.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LARRY KUDLOW, WHITE HOUSE ECONOMIC ADVISER: We are looking at it. We're aware of it. We are looking at it. And we've heard complaints from some of our companies. So, I don't want to say anything definitive policy wise. But we are looking at it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: To pay bribes?
RAMPELL: The companies that I think he has heard complaints from are the Trump organizations. Donald Trump has been publicly complaining about the foreign corrupt practices act for years if not decades at this point. And the United States has been a leader in helping root out corruption around the world. So that you don't have to grease someone's palm in order to get permission to build a tower in India or in Turkey or whatever. And Trump has been upset about that. Other countries have taken notice of our leadership and have passed their own laws actually. That sort of also is good governance laws at home and abroad. And instead this is again Trump showing that the United States no longer hopes to be a leader in this matter, anything else related to American values.
LEMON: I can't believe we are here. Thank you both. I appreciate it. A new poll finds a majority of African-Americans say it is a bad time to be black in America. Eight in 10 think the president is racist. Break down the numbers and the stories behind them, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:40:00]
LEMON: Remember when President Trump said this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Look how much African-American communities have suffered under Democratic control. To those I say the following, what do you have to lose by trying something new. Like Trump. You're living in poverty. You're schools are no good. You have no jobs, 58 percent of your youth is unemployed. What the hell do you have to lose?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Well, that was actually before he was president. But anyway. Back in August of 2016. Today a new Washington Post IPSOS poll shows African-Americans have a deeply negative view of Trump's America, 90 percent disapprove of Trump's job performance, 77 percent say he deserves little to no credit for the unemployment rate, 76 percent believe trump's policies are bad for African-Americans. And 83 percent say President Trump is a racist.
Here to discuss Republican strategist Joseph Pinion, and Angela Rye, former executive director of the Congressional Black Caucus. So, welcome.
ANGELA RYE, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Thank you, Don.
LEMON: Joseph, what does this say about the president? Eight in 10 African-Americans think that he's a racist.
JOSEPH PINION, CHAIR, CONSERVATIVE COLOR COALITION: Look I think it goes all back to the fact that --
LEMON: Wait. Hold on. Is anybody surprised by the poll?
PINION: No.
RYE: No.
LEMON: OK. Go on.
PINION: And I think the problem is that when you have people running around the country side saying that President Trump has approval ratings with, you know, plus 30 percent of the African-American population. I mean, that's just not true. But again it starts to resonate in the mind of people who want to believe it's true. I think we go back to you know, it's on the eve of Dr. King (inaudible). Don't let anyone take your manhood, right. And so, the reality is that right now, we have a situation where jobs are up, yes. But you can't expect black people to be OK with the president calling NFL players kneeling sons of bitches. When they're realistically -- again, they are just trying to kneel for justice. Even if you dislike that.
LEMON: Yes, 65 percent say African-Americans say, Angela, that it's a bad time to be a black person in America. A view shared across income generational political lines.
RYE: Well, and again I don't think it it's startling at all. I think, it's always a great time to be a black person. But from a political standpoint and policy prescriptions from this administration, I certainly understand why. Case in point would be -- well, I almost said Ben Thomas. And I meant to say, Ben Carson who is of course, the HUD secretary. Implementing policy that make it more difficult to pursue any type of housing discrimination issue.
To put up that type of wall, the Department of Justice has become more like the Department of Injustice. Stopping decrees left and right over police department that we know had been brutal to our communities. We are talking about a president who regularly takes credit for strides that were made by the Obama administration. All the while dialing back Obama era regulations just because this black president implemented them.
Also one of the things that we have yet to feel the impact of are the 187 federally appointed judges -- Trump nominations judges. We will really feel the sting of what it means to be black in America once those policies come from those benches.
LEMON: Yes. Listen, I want to read this quote. Because it's something that resonated to me and to most black people when you -- because of the support. They don't understand it.
[22:45:02]
The Washington Post spoke to a 44 year-old black woman from New Jersey. Who said that Trump has changed the way she thinks about white people, she said. If I'm in a room with white women, I know that 50 percent of them voted for Trump. And they believe in his ideas. And I look at them and think how do you see me? What is my humanity to you?
RYE: Wow.
LEMON: That's an experience a lot of black people can relate to, Joseph.
PINION: Look, I think again we have to separate I think the things that happened four years into a President Trump's term. let me -- look, I think no one called it, you know, the George H.W. Bush, you know, (inaudible). We call it the Clinton (inaudible). So, I think we have to acknowledge that fours in, there has progress has been made with regards to the economy.
But it comes back to the sentiment. When you are talking about, you know, there are very good people on both side. When those same people that Charlie is talk about blood and soil. It's very difficult to imagine a black America that is going to feel as if they have the warm brace of this administration. So, again, we can talk about the fact that, you know, black
(inaudible) in Michigan will be in poisoned well before Donald Trump ever took the oath of office. And we can talk about the fact that (inaudible) lost his life before, you know, Donald Trump took the oath of office. But we can also acknowledge the fact the president has not used his bully pulpit to bring us closer together when it comes to the issue of race.
LEMON: But also, Angela, I'll give you the last word here, because even you may, you know, think that this is about -- it's not necessarily about Republicans. This is about Donald Trump, because African-Americans, black folks felt belter in America under George W. Bush, this poll shows.
RYE: Yeah. I think again, the reality of it is systemic racism and oppression did not begin with Donald Trump and it certainly didn't come to a halt or at least suspended under Barack Obama. The reality if nothing else this poll teaches us is that there a whole group of people in this country who paid taxes, who built it on their backs for free. Who feel this in franchise , who feel less than humane. That is what this woman said. What do you think about my humanity? What do you really see? And it is time for us to not only be seen, but to be heard and to be empowered. And the best way for us to do this is to take our beliefs in systems to the polls and challenge him.
LEMON: One response. Before I let you guys go, this is from a man who says, he's talking about Trump. He has taken hatred against people of color in general from the closet to the front porch. Thank you both, I appreciate having this conversation with you and I encourage everyone to read this story and this poll in the Washington Post. Thank you. Have a great weekend.
RYE: Thank you, Don.
LEMON: Our breaking news tonight. Newly released documents showing communication between Lev Parnas and an aide to Devin Nunes. The details next.
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[22:50:00]
LEMON: We're back now with our breaking news, House Democrats releasing more documents tonight from indicted Rudy Giuliani associate Lev Parnas, including texts that appear to show possible surveillance of Marie Yovanovitch, the former U.S. ambassador to Ukraine, who was fired by President Trump. I want to bring in now Shimon Prokupecz and CNN -- he's a CNN crime and justice reporter. And we are joined by Harry Litman, a former deputy assistant Attorney General.
Shimon, welcome back, Harry, welcome to the program. You know, Shimon, we see these text messages that appear to show more efforts to track marine Yovanovitch. She's been there since Thursday, never left the embassy, that is from an unknown Belgian number in a text exchange with Trump ally Robert Hyde. So now there are even more questions like who is this on the other end of this Belgian number? SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE REPORTER: Yes, and that's
going to be a big question. We don't know who that is but certainly the FBI does. The folks over at the diplomatic security at the State Department will know who this is and now probably members of Congress who have been sitting on this information after they received it from Lev Parnas and his attorney, they know who this person is.
But most importantly who really needs to know are the security folks at the State Department and the FBI because they need to unravel exactly what was going on here and was there actually a plot here to keep her under surveillance, to keep an eye on her, to see what she was doing. Because ultimately they wanted her out of there and was this part of that?
LEMON: Harry, I know that you have very strong views on Congressman Devin Nunes, what do you think about this documents that show his aide appearing to have a role digging up dirt on Trump rivals?
HARRY LITMAN, FORMER DEPUTY ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL: Now, I mean, in some ways it doesn't seem a surprise. He's been kind of a scoundrel in these ways from the start. But think about this. This is the official foreign policy of the United States of America vis-a-vis Ukraine and it's basically being run by these overgrown frat boys of who, you know, Nunes fits in perfectly and they have a goal of ousting a U.S. Ambassador.
To Shimon's point, it's stunning that nothing has been undertaken as far as a criminal investigation. Yet the State Department has had -- and the bureau would have had this months ago. This kind of surveillance of a U.S. Ambassador is you know, tantamount to a kind of declaration of war on U.S. normal foreign policy. There's another story here about why have they slept on it for these months?
LEMON: Shimon, talk to me about some of these photographs, OK, that were released, Parnas with Giuliani, then you have Parnas with Trump, even a photo of Parnas sitting next to Donald Trump Jr. What's going on?
PROKUPECZ: These are events, presumably these are campaign events, money, fund raising events, meetings that they're having with Rudy Giuliani. We've seen video, we've seen photos of them spending time together at the Trump hotel.
[22:55:03]
All of this was going on at the Trump hotel, think about this. This is -- the hotel in Washington, D.C., they're having all these meetings there. We've seen Jay Sekulow there sitting with Parnas. We've seen other members of the Trump team and family and friends and inner circling, hanging out, all of them together at the Trump hotel and we are seeing more evidence of that, they are just keep releasing more and more.
LEMON: Well, my question is, he said, you know, he said keep releasing. What happens Harry, if more of this comes out during this trial? LITMAN: Well, in general, in trials in the past when things come out
that's what I was talking about, the FBI is on it, the DOJ is on it. It puts heat on the witnesses. As best we can tell there's been no impact to what obviously are sorts of conduct that should be opening criminal investigations. I'll tell you what should happen here, certainly, is there should be a criminal investigation of the efforts to Harris, Ambassador Yovanovitch, without a doubt.
LEMON: Well, thank you Harry. Thank you, Shimon. I appreciate you joining us for this breaking news.
PROKUPECZ: Thanks.
LEMON: And thank you for watching, everyone, our coverage continues with the Lev Parnas interview. Anderson Cooper speaks with the man who says President Trump knew exactly what was going on in Ukraine. The full interview in just a few minutes.
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