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Don Lemon Tonight

Sen. Bob Casey (D-PA) Is Interviewed About The Resolution That Was Passed By Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell For President Trump's Impeachment; Leader McConnell Wants To Rush Things Up; McConnell Announces Proposed Rules For Impeachment Trial; Interview With Rep. Ro Khanna (D-CA); Alan Dershowitz On Impeachment Trial; President's Legal Team Argues That Trump Has Authority To Ask Ukraine To Investigate The Bidens; White House Announces Several House Republican Will Join President Trump's Impeachment Team; Democrats Clash With Two Weeks Until Iowa Caucuses. Aired 10-11p ET

Aired January 20, 2020 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[22:00:00]

DON LEMON, CNN HOST: This is CNN TONIGHT. I'm Don Lemon.

Thank you so much for joining us.

Just hours to go until the Senate gets down to the real business of the impeachment trial of President Donald Trump.

But we've got major news tonight on just how the trial will play out. OK. So, we're going to tell you about that. It looks like Mitch McConnell is determined to keep most Americans from seeing and hearing this historic event for themselves. With new rules that mean opening arguments what happened in the middle of the night. Literally under the cover of darkness.

You got to wonder, what he's trying to hide. Tomorrow will be al about debate on McConnell's resolution then opening arguments begin on Wednesday. House impeachment managers and senators will be on the floor for hours and hours fighting just really just to stay awake.

McConnel's plan allows each side 24 hours to make their opening arguments. But they only have two days to use that time which means trial day scheduled to start at 1 p.m. It could easily stretch until one in the morning or later.

Is the majority leader deliberately trying to push senators to the breaking point? I mean, after all there's no reason that opening arguments have to be done in two days for each side. No reason unless really you want the trial to be over and done with as soon as possible.

The White House applauding the plan which after all gives the president exactly what he wants. A trial that could be over well before the state of the union. The state of the union is February 4.

And that's not all. There's no guarantee of witnesses or even evidence from the House. McConnell's plan doesn't allow the Senate the to vote on witnesses until after both sides present their opening arguments.

Then there are 16 hours, 16 hours of questions by senators which they can only ask through Chief Justice John Roberts who is presiding over the trial. The Senate only votes after all that on whether to consider any motion to subpoena witnesses or documents. Democrats and the Minority Leader Chuck Schumer they're calling the whole thing a cover up.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY), SENATE MINORITY LEADER: It is certain, it is now certain that Leader McConnell is going along with President Trump's cover up. Hook, line and sinker. When you look at his resolution, it's no wonder he delayed it until the last minute. He didn't want people to study it or know about it.

After reading McConnell's resolution it's clear, McConnell is hell bent on making it much more difficult to get witnesses and documents and intent on rushing the trial through. On something as important and serious as impeachment, Senator McConnell's resolution is a national disgrace.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: And Chuck Schumer vowing to fight for amendments tomorrow. But the fact is Mitch McConnell is likely to get his way since he is -- he is in the majority. He has the majority.

Democrats would need four Republicans to join them and it is clear that McConnell wouldn't have put this resolution out if he didn't have the votes. A trial taking place in the middle of the night. No guarantee of witnesses or evidence.

All of it turning the impeachment trial only the third such trial in our history into a mockery.

But let's not forget what we have already heard. Let's not forget the evidence we have heard. We have heard it out loud from the president on the White House Lawn calling for Ukraine to investigate his political enemies and throwing in China for good measure.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Well, I would think that if they were honest about it that they would start a major investigation into the Bidens. It's a very simple answer. And by the way, likewise, China should start an investigation into the Bidens. Because what happened in China is just about as bad as what happened with -- with Ukraine.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Let's not forget the acting chief of staff Mick Mulvaney telling Americans to get over it. That the administration held up money for Ukraine to get an investigation of a conspiracy theory about the DNC. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICK MULVANEY, ACTING WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF: Did he also mentioned to me in past that the corruption related to the DNC server? Absolutely. No question about that. But that's it. That's why we held up the money.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: To be clear. What you just described is a quid pro quo. It is, funding will not flow unless the investigation into the Democratic server happened as well.

MULVANEY: We do -- we do that all the time with foreign policy. I have news for everybody, get over it. There's going to be political influence in foreign policy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[22:05:00]

LEMON: Let's not forget Ambassador Gorgon Sondland testifying under oath that there was a quid pro quo.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GORDON SONDLAND, U.S. AMBASSADOR TO THE EUROPEAN UNION: Was there a quid pro quo? As I testified previously with regard to the requested White House call and the White House meeting, the answer is yes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: But in the face of all this, it looks like the president will get what he wants - a short impeachment trial. Most of it under the cover of darkness followed by swift acquittal. That's what the president wants, it's not what a majority of Americans want.

More than half of Americans, 51 percent in our new CNN poll say the Senate should vote to remove President Trump from office. Those are the numbers. That moderate Republican senators will be looking at as they weigh the question of allowing witnesses. And that's a fact the president and his defenders can't cover up.

Let's discuss now. Joining me now Senator Bob Casey, a Pennsylvania Democrat. Senator, thank you so much. I appreciate you joining us here.

SEN. BOB CASEY (D-PA): Thanks, Don.

LEMON: Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer you heard him there. He is calling this, and I quote here. He says, "Mitch McConnell's resolution is a national disgrace." How do you see it?

CASEY: Well, I think that's accurate, Don. When you consider what the American people are faced with now in terms of judging the president's conduct and we're heading into a trial now, a full-blown trial that has at its core that conduct. Soliciting the interference of a foreign government in the next

election and then trying to get that same foreign government to investigate a political opponent and investigate a debunk theory about the last election. That's at issue here. And the American people rightfully, I think, are demanding that we have witnesses and documents that are relevant to those basic questions.

This resolution by Leader McConnell and I think Leader Schumer is correct in saying the reason why he kept it under wraps so long is because he knows it will be met with a lot of opposition across the country.

And you can see that in the polling. Republicans saying, we need to have witnesses. People of all different stripes saying we need to have witnesses. As one of my colleagues said last week, he said in a trial you have witnesses and documents, in a cover up you have neither. And unfortunately, that's what we're seeing as we head into a very grave matter for the country, a very serious inquiry.

LEMON: So, you're saying the American people are demanding that. But how are they -- that's what the polls are showing but that's not necessarily ha demand. How are the American people demanding it?

CASEY: Well, I think it's clear when Americans are asked about this question, about witnesses. Look, this is just logical for people. They want to know all the evidence that's possible to ascertain. They want to put it all on the table.

The president has said over and over again he did nothing wrong. In fact, in the brief filed by the administration the lawyers for the administration, they're saying over and over again the president did nothing wrong. That's their stated position. It's not the position to say that what his conduct that his conduct was wrong but it might not be impeachable. They're saying he did nothing wrong.

So, it's perfectly appropriate for a federal elected official including the president according to their argument, to engage in political electioneering to use the power of your office to investigate your political opponent. That is always wrong. Categorically wrong under every under circumstance.

And the question now for us is whether or not that rises to the level of the basis for removal from office. But we need to, I think we need see the evidence from John Bolton and Mr. Mulvaney and some others.

By the way, all -- virtually everyone who's testified under oath so far has been a Republican. And the witnesses were trying to at least their testimony from are Republicans.

LEMON: Let's talk about some of the evidence. because this resolution does not automatically admit the House's evidence that's been submitted. Why wouldn't that be admitted from the get go? It sounds like suppression of evidence. Is this about suppressing evidence?

CASEY: Well, it's rather it's bizarre and insulting. To say you won't admit the evidence from the House, which was conducted according to the rules, according to the same rules Republicans agreed to years ago with all the witnesses and all the documents that are attached to it --

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: So how do you have a trial without evidence?

CASEY: Exactly. So, well, there are two parts to it. Number one is, Leader McConnell saying that should not be automatically entered into evidence so you have no -- you have no evidence that forms a basis for the trial. And then on top of that, he says no witnesses.

So, I guess we're going to have a trial not only with no witnesses, but no evidence. That is bizarre and insulting and damaging to the national security of the United States of America. That's pathetic.

(CROSSTALK)

[22:10:04]

LEMON: So, what do you guys just sit there and look at each other and what do you, I mean, what do you do? Talk about the weather? Like, what happens then?

CASEY: No. We're going to be offering plenty of motions to get this information into evidence and also to demand the testimony of evidence -- of witnesses and also to have document evidence as well which is very relevant.

Look, we only have a memorandum of a phone call from one engagement with a foreign leader. I wonder about some other phone calls some other engagements with foreign leaders. But at a bare minimum, at a bare minimum --

LEMON: Yes.

CASEY: -- witnesses should be part of this because that's what's called considering the evidence with impartial justice according to the constitutional laws. That's the oath we take and I think Leader McConnell should reread the oath.

LEMON: OK. Listen, I want to talk about these rules. Listen, we don't have 12 hours. We have shorter than 12 hours. But listen 12 hours a day. I mean, do you think that -- is the point to hide the facts from the American people by making this go into the middle of the night? I don't want to put words in your mouth but what do you think this is?

CASEY: Well, look, they obviously want to rush this. They don't want to have any witnesses. They want to rush -- they want to rush to judgment here so that it goes away very quickly. I think the American people have a right to expect and I, as a juror have the right to expect that this will be a thorough considered review of relevant evidence. That ought to be the basic standard here.

Now that means we have to work some late nights, that's fine with me. We're ready to do that. But if it's meant as a way to fast track this process to have an outcome that the president wants.

I have -- Don, I have to tell you, I'm really amazed that how lawyers and legislators are constantly not only doing the bidding of this president but are using his language. They're saying he did nothing wrong when he asked a foreign government to interfere in the next election. If that's not wrong than we've got some work to do.

LEMON: Senator, we appreciate you coming on. We hope you come back throughout this process and even beyond that. Thank you for your time.

CASEY: Thanks, Don.

LEMON: Thank you.

Mitch McConnell said that he wanted to follow the model of Bill Clinton's impeachment trial. Then cut the number of days each side has for their opening argument. He cut that in half. Is there any way to make this a fair trial? We'll discuss.

[22:15:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: The Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell laying out his proposal for how he wants the impeachment trial to unfold in the Senate including giving both sides House impeachment managers and President Trump's legal team 24 hours over two days to present their opening arguments.

The Minority Leader Chuck Schumer slamming McConnell's plan calling it a national disgrace.

Let's bring in now CNN National Correspondent, Athena Jones, also Eric Columbus, a former senior official in the Obama Justice Department. From 2001 to 2002 he worked as legal counsel for Senator Joe Biden when Biden was a member of the Judiciary Committee. And John Dean is here as well. John Dean's resume and reputation proceed him.

So, thank you all for joining us. I appreciate that. Athena, I want to start with you because the Majority Leader McConnell released this resolution on the rules for President Trump's impeachment trial. Talk to me about the timeline McConnell is laying out here. I mean, it is pretty unbelievable. Don't you think?

ATHENA JONES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, don, I mean, it's speedy. I don't know how you can go any faster while still allowing the participants time to sleep and to eat. You said it. Both sides or each side gets up to 24 hours over, at most, two days to lay out their case. So that's 48 hours. Then there is 16 hours for questions from the senators. They'll be asked by either side. They do that through Chief Justice John Roberts.

Then another four hours to debate this idea of witnesses and documents. And we don't know how it's all going to play out. Of course, but that looking at 68 hours. So, it's only a matter of days, and if, and I suppose this is a big if, if the senators do not vote to allow witnesses or documents, this thing could be over by next week or as soon as next week.

So very, very fast. And that of course would be right up -- right along the line of what President Trump wants to see.

LEMON: John, this condensed time frame. He said he wanted to follow the Clinton model. But, I mean, he shrunk it and 24 hours over two days. Is this fair?

JOHN DEAN, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, he cut the time in half from the Clinton model. What's all -- it's not fair. What I think the House managers will do is they're very savvy. They'll play this out in primetime. And it could come back and bite Mitch. In other words, they'll have some of the less important arguments made in front of the Senate. And then during the primetime hours you'll see the A-team out there presenting the strong case. They'll just use the primetime.

LEMON: And --

DEAN: Maybe to play it twice even.

LEMON: Right. And then I think maybe what they didn't count on is that the networks will run it in primetime.

DEAN: They will.

LEMON: Right? It will. Because during the day they may not necessarily run it but then they'll run it in primetime.

DEAN: Exactly.

LEMON: Right?

DEAN: They want to cut the soaps off.

LEMON: Yes. Eric, let me bring you in. Because senators can't be on their phones, they can't talk to each other. This is going to go -- I mean, I'm wondering if this is going to go well into the night, probably, right?

Let's be real, McConnell must know that this is going to put strain on these senators not to mention the House managers as well.

ERIC COLUMBUS, FORMER SENIOR OFFICIAL, OBAMA ADMINISTRATION: That's certainly right. I mean, the Senate has done late nights before. Most famously the night when John McCain delivered thumbs down on getting rid of Obamacare, it was two in the morning. They can handle a couple of late nights.

[22:19:59]

And I think that some of these moderate senators like Romney and Lisa Murkowski may have -- may have -- and I'm perhaps being a Pollyanna here, trying to give McConnell what he wanted here and leaving open the possibility that they will vote to call witnesses.

I mean, from all we've been reading the Trump administration is making all kinds of contingency plans should John Bolton be called to testify. And they don't feel that they have these votes in the bag by any means. So, I think it's by no means a guarantee that this is going to be lights out by next week.

LEMON: Yes. But what does it look like, John, when you're to the public when you're holding this under the cover of darkness?

DEAN: It doesn't look good. The public is very savvy about this sort of thing. Not only will the Democrats be telling them what's going on, they'll be able to see for themselves. If no evidence, for example, really comes in, if Mitch is able to shut off new evidence and he's put a highly restricted record in. It's what's already public in the House proceedings and they're going to vote on that again.

LEMON: Do you think it's appealing to his base, to the president's base?

DEAN: I think he's appealing to the president. Right?

LEMON: Yes.

DEAN: That is who he is appealing to.

LEMON: What does this mean for the senators who are up maybe for senators who are in a contested reelection race?

DEAN: If they vote for the rules, I think they're going to pay dearly for it because they'll hear about it throughout their campaign that they didn't want a fair trial for the Senate to have to test this very important and very, very pivotal issue. Can a president shake down a foreign country to get campaign help? Which should -- the answer should be no.

LEMON: Athena, as you're out there listening, do you agree with that? What do you think?

JONES: Well, certainly. But I also think that, you know, Americans know what a fair trial looks like. This has been the argument that Democrats have been putting forward for the last few weeks. To put the pressure on Republicans or on the Senate or on Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell. To make sure that there is way to have witnesses and documents.

And so, what's so interesting about this is that this resolution doesn't even allow for the admission of the evidence presented in the House to process.

LEMON: In the House. Right.

JONES: That is something that has to be voted on and that's very different from the Clinton model. So that is why you hear Minority Leader Chuck Schumer saying, look, this is, this is no way like the Clinton model. And I have many problems with it that's why he's going to try to amend it.

LEMON: John, here's what the Washington Post is reporting. That Trump's legal team and their GOP senate allies working on a contingency plan if Dems do get enough votes to force witnesses. One option is to move Bolton's testimony to a classified setting. Meaning out of the public view. What are they afraid of? Why are they so afraid of that, of having in public publicly testify?

DEAN: Well, there is a rumor going around that Bolton's friends are trying to block his testimony for him. In other words, he's made himself available. So, he's protected on his book to say whatever he wants to say, to say I didn't try to hide it.

But I think this whole thing where you're have depositions before any witness is permitted to testify and then another vote on what out of that deposition can be admitted into the Senate is just creating hurdles and making sure it's testimony that Mitch wants to hear.

LEMON: Yes. But there's also part of a contingency plan, Eric, that, you know, if that they plan to -- if they do get witnesses, right, that they'll say it's they're going to add these other guys to President Trump's team that Doug Collins or Mike Johnson, even though they won't be able to speak. Jim Jordan, Debbie Lesko, Mark Meadows, John Ratcliffe, Elise Stefanik, Lee Zeldin. And also claim executive privilege as well.

They're trying to gain this out so that the president -- so that Bolton doesn't get a chance to speak and also, you know, executive privilege and then add all these other people. What is going on here, what are they trying to do?

COLUMBUS: Well, the executive privilege argument is a sure loser if John Bolton wants to speak. It's a free country and John Bolton is no longer a member of the Trump administration. If he wants to speak, he has every right to just as much as you or I, or as James Comey who is in a similar position and testified before Congress back in 2017.

LEMON: So that's --

(CROSSTALK)

COLUMBUS: Maybe they're trying -- sorry.

LEMON: -- in their story. But I wonder also, why they are adding all these folks here if they can't speak? Why are they adding Doug Collins, the House member joining the Trump team, why are they adding Doug Collins? Because obviously senators can't speak. What's the whole point of that? Does anybody understand?

COLUMBUS: It maybe just for giving chance to talk on TV and feel good about himself and give him a nice shiny title.

LEMON: Yes. Giving Trump --

(CROSSTALK)

JONES: I think that's exactly right.

[22:25:00] LEMON: Yes.

JONES: I think that's exactly right. We know that President Trump had to be talked out of having some of his staunchest defenders in the House. People who made a name for themselves certainly during the House's impeachment process.

And so, he wanted those -- those guys to be on his team. He was talked out of that because they didn't want to create a circus like atmosphere in the Senate. But he wants to see those people on TV defending him.

LEMON: Got it.

JONES: He cares a lot about people defending him on TV.

LEMON: John, last words. Senators can't speak with these congressmen added to his team. They're not part of his legal team? But I guess they're joining the TV team? Is that --

(CROSSTALK)

DEAN: They have the credentials of being part of the team.

LEMON: Got it.

DEAN: Even though they're non-speaking parts. Then they can fan out on television and be the cheer leaders.

LEMON: The president gets what he wants.

DEAN: Yes.

LEMON: Thank you all. I appreciate it.

One of the president's lawyers is arguing he can't be impeached because he didn't commit any crimes. But go back to the Clinton impeachment and Alan Dershowitz was saying something very different.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Here's more on our breaking news.

Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell revealing his proposed rules for the president's impeachment trial which gets underway in earnest just hours from now.

[22:30:05]

McConnell wants to give each side 24 hours over just two days to make their case.

And joining me now, constitutional attorney, Floyd Abrams, he represented McConnell in the Citizens United Case and considers himself an old friend Alan Dershowitz, a member of Trumps legal team. Thank you. It's indeed an honor to have you here. FLOYD ABRAMS, CONSTITUTIONAL ATTORNEY: Good to be here.

LEMON: Thank you so much for appearing. Thank you very much. Give me your reaction to McConnell's resolution. How difficult will it be to present a case under these rules?

ABRAMS: Well, look. It's loaded in favor of the president. That said, I don't really think you need 24 hours to put out a case. I mean, if I were advising the Democrats and these rules passed, I would say, you know, put it on from 1:00 p.m. until 8:00 p.m. The first day. And from 9:00 a.m. until 5:00 p.m. or 7:00 p.m. the next. I mean, trial lawyers don't open with 24 hours usually. And the Democrats have a lot to say. But they can say it in shorter time.

LEMON: Yes. You wrote an article. Right? And it talks about how the Senate is a closed doors for impeachment deliberations in the past should be the public should be let it. It's in The New York Times, right? What will each Senator say about Trump. We deserve to know, right? And Mitch McConnell's resolution puts out the question of the witnesses until after opening arguments. Questions. Is this fair? And that you say that this is isn't because the public has a right to know.

ABRAMS: Yes. I mean, the point of my article as you rightly said was that the public is kept out of just about everything where the Senators speak. I mean, what's going to happen tomorrow? They're going to have arguments with the House managers and the president's lawyers, arguing about Senator McConnell's resolution. That will be two hours of this and then another two hours, Senator Schumer's proposal. The public will see that.

What the public won't see at all, none of it. Is what the Senators have to say with respect to this issue. All of that will be in camera. And the same will be true routinely throughout the procedure.

LEMON: For deliberations and everything, right?

ABRAMS: Particularly for deliberations. Right. So, even on they have the final vote, I mean, yes there will be speeches by the managers, speeches by the defenders of the president, but not a word from the Senators. And not a word on the record at the moment it's being said for the public to know and pass judgment on the behavior, the tone, the nuance and the substance of what the Senators believe.

LEMON: Let's talk about Alan Dershowitz. One of the president's attorneys changing his tune on impeachment. This is him in 1998. Then yesterday he finally his attempt to explain his contradiction. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALAN DERSHOWITZ, TRUMP IMPEACHMENT DEFENSE LAWYER: Certainly doesn't have to be a crime. If you have somebody who completely corrupts the office of president and who abuses trust and who poses great danger to our liberty. You don't need a technical crime. The framers intended for impeachable conduct only to be criminal like conduct. Or conduct that is prohibited by the criminal law.

You don't need a technical crime. That's my position today. I've said right in the beginning, you need criminal like behavior. Akin to bribery and treason.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: When was he right? Was he right in 1998, and was he right yesterday in the middle or was he right in his finally in his attempt today to explain? When was he right?

ABRAMS: Well, I think, he was really right during the Clinton impeachment. That there is conduct, non-criminal in nature. But which is so outrageous by a president, so focused. The argument here is so focused on himself and not the country. Getting reelected. Not anything to do with the Ukraine and corruption. That's what the Democrats say.

LEMON: Have you spoken to him?

ABRAMS: No.

LEMON: Why? What do you make of this contradiction?

ABRAMS: Well, I'm ready to take him at his word. He wouldn't use this language. He is sort of changed his mind. And he changed his mind I guess over the years.

LEMON: Why would he change his mind the constitution hasn't changed, Mr. Abrams?

ABRAMS: I'm not Alan Dershowitz's lawyer. What I will say that I know from watching him on this channel, that his position is he went and did the work. He went and looked at the research.

[22:35:11]

Now, I think he's wrong. That's to be clear. And I just to say a line or two. The constitution doesn't lend itself to absurd, ridiculous, unacceptable results very often. And I think that if the charges against the president are true here, or if he evenly this president now, if it is the case that a president withholds foreign aid solely for the purpose of benefitting himself by trying to get something from the country that we're about to give it to, that it just doesn't matter common sense. That cannot be permissible behavior.

Now, one of the things Professor Dershowitz has said this is that, this is all really about foreign policy. And in my view it's not. It deals with foreign people and events, and the like. But it's not foreign policy when the president is doing it for domestic political gain. And while it's absolutely true, presidents have ulterior motives all the time. The charge here is that that was the only thing going on. The only thing he wanted was something to hurt Joe Biden.

LEMON: Yes. ABRAMS: And it just seems to me that we shouldn't read the

constitution in a way which makes it impossible for an impeachment proceeding to proceed in that circumstance.

LEMON: It's indeed an honor to have you here.

ABRAMS: Good to see you.

LEMON: You're a good guy. I'm not sure about that other guy that bears your last name.

ABRAMS: Who's that?

LEMON: That's Dan, it's your son.

(LAUGHTER)

No, he's a good guy. Thank you. Stan Abrams (inaudible), thank you very much, I appreciate it, sir.

Congresswoman Ro Khanna, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[22:40:00]

LEMON: White House announcing tonight that it will add several House Republicans to the president's defense team in the impeachment trial. The list includes some of the Congressmen the president calls him warriors, like Doug Collins, Jim Jordan, (inaudible) among others. Joining me now to discuss is Congressman Ro Khanna, a Democrat on the Oversight Committee and co-chair of Senator Bernie Sanders campaign for president. Good evening, sir. Good to have you. How you doing?

REP. RO KHANNA (D-CA): Don, good to be back on.

LEMON: So, according to a source there are currently no plans for these House members to speak on the Senate floor. So, what I want to know is what exactly -- what are they going to be doing?

KHANNA: I don't know. And I don't know why anyone would have Doug Collins to represent the president. I mean, Doug Collins has had to apologize for suggesting that every Democrat loves terrorism. I was on the House floor where Speaker Pelosi actually accepted Doug Collins' apology. So, I don't really understand what the White House is thinking by having someone like him involved. I guess, he's going to do post impeachment spin. But I think it's going to be a backfire.

LEMON: Let's talk about Mitch McConnell's plan for the impeachment trial. Each side expected to get only 24 hours of time divided over two days for the opening argument. House was -- I mean they were accused of rushing their process. What do you think about Mitch McConnell of what he's doing in the Senate?

KHANNA: Well, it's outrageous. I mean, why you wouldn't give the House the time to make the argument and to make it in prime time. I mean, when McConnell is hoping is that some of the evidence gets buried and they don't present it until midnight. And that's not fair for the American people. But the bigger outrage is that he's not allowing witnesses. Four witnesses is what Senator Schumer requested and three sets of documents. It was a reasonable request. And that's not included.

LEMON: I want to talk about some of these polling. CNN has a new poll out, it shows 69 percent of people want witnesses to be called. Do you see this as a cover up if we don't hear from witnesses as majority of Americans poll want?

KHANNA: I do. I mean, here's the simple question, if the president is so convinced that he will be exonerated that he did nothing wrong that the phone call was perfect, why doesn't he just let John Bolton, who was national security adviser and knows the facts and Mick Mulvaney, who was the chief of staff testify. Presumably they would exonerate him. And I think the question people are asking is what is there to hide? If he's confident enough of his innocence.

LEMON: What do you think they are afraid of?

KHANNA: I think they are afraid of what John Bolton is going to say. I mean, I think from public reports, John Bolton felt that this was illegal. He felt it was a scheme that he didn't want to participate in. And John Bolton has a lot of credibility on the right.

So, I think they're afraid that John Bolton is going to come and tell some version of the truth. And the reality is look, president's don't often get prosecuted in this country. But certainly people around them go to jail all the time. So, I think John Bolton is going to lookout for his own legal interest.

LEMON: Do Americans know a fair trial when they see one?

KHANNA: Absolutely. I think they know a fair trial. I mean, imagine if you said that someone is going to trial and they can't call witnesses. Or imagine if, one of the parties gets the to write the rules with the judge. I think these things -- they don't require a law degree. It's just common sense of fairness. And frankly I think that's upsetting people more than anything else. More than even what the president did and why can't there just be a fair process that takes place.

LEMON: Yes. Let's talk about the state of the race since I have you here. You have endorsed Senator Bernie Sanders. He's been back and forth with the former Vice President Joe Biden over what Biden claims is a doctored video misrepresenting his opinion on social security. Do you expect Bernie Sanders to be playing more of offense now that we are two weeks away from the Iowa caucuses?

[22:45:18]

KHANNA: I don't think he's going to launch attacks on other candidates. He has a tremendous amount of respect for Joe Biden. He has always said that he believes Joe Biden is a person of integrity. They have philosophical differences. Bernie Sanders believes in Medicare for all. He was opposed to war in

Iraq. He believe we need to expand social security. And I think it's fair to draw policy contrast. But he clearly has said that he doesn't want any of his supporters launching personal character attacks.

LEMON: Do you think this trial hurts him on the campaign trail? And he won't be out there.

KHANNA: I don't. I think he's got a tremendous amount of surrogates and he's got a ground game in Iowa that's going to really propel him. And ultimately, he has to do his duty. So, the politics are secondary.

LEMON: All right. Congressman Ro Khanna, thank you for your time. I appreciate it.

KHANNA: Don, thanks for having me back on.

LEMON: Democrats storming Iowa today with only two weeks until votes are cast there. And two front runners in particular are going after each other. Why are Bernie Sanders and Joe Biden at odds? Talk about it more, next.

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[22:50:00]

LEMON: Now on the state of the race, we are on the verge of the first votes being cast in the 2020 election season, the Iowa caucuses will be held in exactly two weeks and clashes between the leading Democrats are heating up. Let's bring in CNN political commentators Keith Boykin and Bakari Sellers.

I have read it like that because I have no idea what's going on, when you read that 38 and you read all the polls in there, I'm like I don't know who's on top, who's not. There's a poll for everybody, if you like support any candidate, like, one of them is on top in some poll. Good evening gentlemen, I appreciate it. Bakari, I'm starting with you. Joe Biden has accused Bernie Sanders campaign of sharing a doctored video that attack him over social media. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, FORMER VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, 2020 U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: There's a little doctored video going around, put out by one of Bernie's people.

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS, (I-VT), U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It was not doctored.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: There's some tension between Joe Biden and Bernie Sanders. What's going on, Bakari?

BAKARI SELLERS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, FORMER HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES: You have two front runners. I think, anyone's who's watching this race can tell you honestly that this race is simply between two people, it's between Bernie Sanders and Joe Biden and so, they are going to head to head, they are having a legitimate dialogue about social security.

There are some people are accusing, others of playing dirty. But this what is what happens. I'm actually having flashbacks of 2016 when Bernie Sanders made the similar accusations towards Hillary Clinton in the same manner. Look, I mean, I think what Bernie Sanders understands is that for him Iowa is a must win.

And so they're pulling out all the stops. I wish Democrats would stop being proverbial bed (inaudible) and thinking that politics is tiddly winks. Look, this is combat sports, you know, in South Carolina we always talked about politics, being on combat sports, let these two candidates go at it. They make each other better. They will see what happens after Iowa.

LEMON: But Elizabeth Warren would take issue to that, she would say, look, I'm still in here, what are you talking about, Bakari?

SELLERS: Well, Elizabeth Warren has work to do, I think even Elizabeth Warren in her support is will tell you as this race boils down? I think it's really a two person race, I don't think many people can disagree with that.

LEMON: Keith, what do you think?

KEITH BOYKIN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I disagree with that.

SELLERS: I don't think many people other than Keith can disagree with me.

LEMON: What's your reaction to this?

BOYKIN: I think the other candidates would probably disagree with that too. I mean --

LEMON: But also to Joe Biden and Bernie Sanders.

BOYKIN: yes, I mean, first of all, the reality is that nobody knows what's going to happen in Iowa. Anybody could win. I agree that Bernie is in a good position to do well in Iowa. I also think, obviously, Joe Biden is in a great position to do well in South Carolina because he has a significant amount of black support. The question is, whether anybody else can surprise us? And sometimes a surprising candidate that finishes second or third makes a strong impression. So, it's not clear that that's a two person race, I can surely say that.

In terms of the story, the conflict between Biden and Bernie, you know, we're going to see a lot more of this because as Bakari said they're front runners. But the reality is, is that the Democratic Party, for the most part, for the past 40 years or more has been on the side of supporting increases in social security, increases for Medicare. It's the Republican Party which has been against that.

And I think the Democrats should emphasize that we actually have more that unites us on this issue than divides us. I mean, Trump is the one who claimed he was going to protect social security and Medicare. He claimed he was going to do this at the same time as he's going to cut the deficit.

And what happens is, and this is what Bernie was trying -- the point Bernie was trying to make is that Republicans consistently get in office and once they get in office they cut taxes and they create deficits and debt and then they say well we have to cut entitlements. We have to cut social security. We have to cut Medicare because we're in such debt. The debt that they created themselves. That's the situation that we got ourselves into.

LEMON: Yes. Aren't you guys kind of saying the same thing, he just said it longer, I don't know.

SELLERS: But -- let me just -- let me explain something, because Keith actually hit on it. but I want to go a little bit further. The reason that I articulate the fact that it's a two person race is that, Bernie for the past four, five, six years has been running for president of United States and Bernie has a base of support that's actually doing wonders by increasing the number of people who are participating in our primary system.

The biggest problem Bernie Sander's has is black voters. Joe Biden has a lock right now on black voters, particularly black women. We always talk about this, Don, it's my mama and her friends. So, when you come to South Carolina it's not just South Carolina but it's super Tuesday. And so when you see these two are running away from it whereas Pete, Amy and somebody else is running for president of the United States, Pete, Amy and Tom Steyer and the rest of them are not doing well with these black voters.

[22:55:07]

LEMON: Yes. Hey, just real quick, I just want to show to honor Dr. King's legacy today, Democratic presidential candidates linked arms with each other and civil rights leaders and marched to the State House in South Carolina with thousands of others. Moments like these are what we need more of, don't you think?

BOYKIN: I definitely agree. We need more of that and it also, again, shows the contrast between the Democratic Party and the Republican Party.

SELLERS: Amen.

BOYKIN: Something I think, I wish the Democrats would say more of. I agree with Bakari that this is a combat sport, they should be able to be aggressive in their disagreements, but at the same time let's emphasize the fact that we are having -- they're marching in South Carolina for Dr. King's dream while gun rights people are marching in Richmond and Donald Trump is encouraging them, there's two different messages, two different communities they're trying to reach out to and the African-American community has been traditionally supportive of the Democratic Party for the past 150 years or so, because of that reason. LEMON: Bakari, there's nothing wrong with gun rights. But, you know,

I know.

BOYKIN: When Donald Trump is pushing at the same time, we saw the history in Charlottesville that's the problematic part about the message with that. People have the right to support gun rights and to support the second amendment, but it's just on Martin Luther King day, the Prince of Peace, you're going to decide to hold a rally for gun rights?

LEMON: The March was peaceful, but go on.

SELLERS: But I mean what I want to see, though, I'm not worried about what they are doing, what the other side is doing, I'm worried about what we are doing and today was a great day for the Democratic Party, from Pete Buttigieg to Tulsi Gabbard, even to Bernie and Joe Biden, etcetera, everybody in between.

What we have to remember is that Donald Trump is a symptom of the ills that this country has. He's not the cancer but he is simply a symptom of those things.

LEMON: We got to go, Bakari.

SELLERS: And we have to talk about -- we have to talk about how we're going to root those things out. And so today was a proud day to be a Democrat and we just have to do more and encourage more to join our party.

LEMON: Dr. King day, look at us on the TV.

BOYKIN: We agree on this.

LEMON: No, I'm just saying. Three brothers on the TV. Dr. King would be proud.

SELLERS: Three handsome men on Dr. King day, is good day.

LEMON: Don't speak for us. Not you, Bakari.

SELLERS: Wow.

LEMON: We'll be right back.

(LAUGHTER)

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