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Don Lemon Tonight

President Trump Displays What He Can Do After Being Impeached; Primary Contests Bring More Surprises; State Of The Race: Democrats Are Setting Their Sights On Nevada And South Carolina, Two States With A Lot Of Diversity Among Voters; Michael Bloomberg Defended Stop-And- Frisk, Throwing Minority Kids 'Against The Walls' In 2015 Audio. Aired 11p-12a ET

Aired February 12, 2020 - 23:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[23:00:00]

DON LEMON, CNN HOST: This is CNN TONIGHT. I'm Don Lemon.

A lot going on. And we're going to catch you up on all of the day's big headlines.

One week after he was acquitted by the Senate in his impeachment trial, has President Trump learned his lesson? Well, yes, he sure has. But not the kind of lesson that some people were hoping for.

He is ramping up attacks on people he sees as enemies and intervening in the sentencing of his long-time associate Roger Stone.

The president meeting with reporters in the Oval Office and putting out tweet after tweet. We're going to have the Trump fact check just ahead.

The Democratic candidates taking their battle for the nomination to Nevada and South Carolina. States with large numbers of black and brown voters. We're going to see who is best positioned to get the support of those key voting blocs.

And Mike Bloomberg's popularity with African-American voters is on the rise, but will he be hurt by his previous support of stop and frisk? A policing policy he now says that he disavows. We're going to have a discussion coming up on that.

But we're going to begin with President Trump, him thanking the DOJ for intervening in the Stone sentencing.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I want to thank the Justice Department for seeing this, this horrible thing -- and I didn't speak to him, by the way, just so you understand.

They saw it a horribleness of a nine-year sentence for doing nothing. You have murderers and drug addicts they don't get nine years. Nine years for doing something that nobody even can define what he did.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: So, let us give you the facts. So, here's a fact. Roger Stone was convicted in federal court of lying to Congress and witness tampering. But let's think about the big picture of what has happened in the weeks since the Senate acquitted the president.

First, he attacked senators who voted against him, then he fired witnesses who were subpoenaed to testify under oath. The president's Republican allies in Congress announced investigations into his political rivals.

Trump also criticized the potential sentence of his long-time friend Roger Stone. The Justice Department then reversed their decision on Stone, prompting four prosecutors to quit or resign.

And as you just heard Trump thank the attorney general for intervening in that case.

And that's not even all of it here. Garrett Graff, Max Boot, Susan Glasser, Charlie Dent, as well, all here to discuss this. Thank you all for joining. Max, I'm going to start with you. So, we have all of that and it's only been one week since Trump's acquittal. What gives?

MAX BOOT, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Well, pretty clearly, Don, President Trump is unchained and unhinged. He has really been emboldened by that acquittal after the sham trial that the Senate Republicans put on.

He basically sees it as his license to do anything he wants to do. And he said that repeatedly, he thinks he thinks he has the right to do pretty much everything under the Constitution.

And now he is on his vengeance tour, seeking retribution against his real and perceived enemies. He is going after Lieutenant Colonel Vindman, an Iraq war hero trying to get the army to discipline him for testifying truthfully.

And at the same time, he's trying to protect Roger Stone for lying under oath, for witness tampering, for trying to cover up Trump's connections with Russia.

I mean, this is really banana republic stuff. This is not something I'd ever thought we'd see in the United States of America. But we see it here. And what's really alarming is we're not alarmed enough. Senate Republicans --

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: They're like this.

BOOT: They don't care. They're just pretending it's not going on. They're pretending this is perfectly normal. This is not normal. This is truly a mayday moment for our democracy.

LEMON: We're going to have Republicans reaction in a moment and I want to play some with that. But I've got to ask Garrett, what does this say about the state of the country that we're in now, that the president is interfering in the justice system right out in the open, he's saying listen, I didn't call them, I didn't talk to them, but there's this thing called Twitter that anyone can read.

GARRETT GRAFF, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Yes. And I think this is something that we're still trying to wrap our minds around even through three years into the Trump administration which is what happens when the corruption is out there, sort of just in plain sight, you know.

We're sort of used to these scandals playing out with, like, there's a surreptitious phone call from the Oval Office to the attorney general. And that would be a terrible scandal in a normal administration. Now, though, Trump is sort of able to just fire off his corruption, you know, live in real-time and we don't really know how to react to that.

LEMON: Yes. Susan, let's talk about that. Because the president and his team, they say he wasn't involved in the DOJ's decision on Roger Stone, right? But he tweeted that the sentence was unfair. They changed it. Then he publicly congratulated Barr's decision. I mean, is this how Trump -- is this how gaslighting works?

[23:05:09]

SUSAN GLASSER, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Look, we've had a lot of who will read me -- rid me of this meddlesome priest moment. It seems to me this is another one of them.

What I've been struck by, Don, is that in general, Trump and his advisors no longer even go through a lot of the motions of trying to hide it. I mean, in this particular case they're sticking with a barely believable cover story that somehow this doesn't have anything to do with the president. Also demanding the same action that the Justice Department took it upon itself to make.

But, you know, his vengeance tour as I think Sherrod Brown, the senator from Ohio called it today, he wants us to know that this was in retribution for impeachment. He wants us to know that he is the one who ordered the Vindmans' frog marched out of the White House, you know.

In fact, there was a plan at the NSC to use the cover of the NSC reorganization to get rid of Lieutenant Colonel Vindman. Trump said, no, I don't like that plan. I want him fired and I want everybody to know about it.

I think the thing that we see from the experience of other authoritarians around the world is that they want us to be aware of it because that's the whole point of the vengeance. I think Donald Trump is obsessed with looking tough even more than being tough.

LEMON: Hey, Susan, real quick so I can get to Charlie here. But I mean, wasn't reportedly there a meeting with the concerned lawmakers asking the president not to do this, and he did it anyway, but, you know, he's learned his lesson.

GLASSER: Well, I think it's interesting to see these senators now squirm, you know. In particular, the small handful of Republicans who said they were undecided during the Senate trial, and then with the exception of Mitt Romney, all broke in favor of Trump.

Now they're very uncomfortable because they realize they're once again being forced to own all of Trump's behavior. You saw Susan Collins today basically saying, hey, wait a minute, I decided that I didn't want to remove him from office. I wasn't essentially giving him a blank check or endorsing all of his future behavior.

You know, I guess they're thinking that we journalists will become exhausted again and, you know, stop shoving microphones in their face every time Trump does something outrageous.

LEMON: Yes.

GLASSER: Remember, we did that at the beginning of the administration and then we all just got tired of it and the senators learned that they soon enough would no longer be accountable for Trump's behavior.

LEMON: Yes. Well, Charlie, this is how some Republicans -- I want to play this. Some Republican's reaction to Trump's involvement in the Stone case. Here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): I've got concerns about overzealous prosecution more than anything else. In fact, I thought he did something that had changed the outcome inappropriately, I'd be the first to say.

REP. JOHN CORNYN (R-TX): The president has First Amendment rights too.

MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: You really believe that the president did not -- his view of this did not influence the Justice Department in any way?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't have any reason not to believe that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Charlie, is there anything your party won't defend when it comes to this president?

CHARLIE DENT, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, you know, it's very --

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: That was an exasperate --

DENT: Yes. It's very hard. It's very hard for me to watch this. I mean, look, what's happened is I think the president has taken their loyalty for granted and he mocks their support. And then he will go so far as to attempt to intimidate them after the fact.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: But they keep coming back for more.

DENT: Who wants --

LEMON: He's laughing at them.

DENT: Yes. Who wants the Mitt Romney treatment? Who wants the Jeff Sessions treatment? We saw what this president is capable of and he will do more of it. As some -- I think Max or somebody said, this guy feels completely unleashed. He's unshackled. And he's shameless.

I mean, I still haven't gotten over last week, Don. I mean, I have three words I thought I would never utter, prayer breakfast attack. I mean, who does that? I mean, I just -- you're just at a loss. Or in the White House when he, you know, his lesson -- he talks about himself being the victim and his family after all this.

No acknowledgement that maybe something that he did caused our nation to go through this traumatic turmoil with impeachment. There's just no self-awareness, no introspection.

We've seen this. It's not going to change and it's going to be up to the American people to make a decision if they want more of this chaos and craziness and dysfunction and trashing of norms. Or, you know, they can stay the course or they can choose a new direction.

LEMON: Wait a minute. So, you're not buying the president and his apologists' term that presidential persecution, that he's not a victim, Charlie?

DENT: He's always the victim. I mean --

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: That was complete sarcasm, as if you couldn't tell my voice went up about eight octaves.

DENT: Of course.

LEMON: But go on.

DENT: Yes, he's a victim. I mean, you just ask him. I mean, it's stunning to me. I mean, look, there's a lot of work for a therapist here. This is above my pay grade.

[23:10:07]

But it's very sad, you know, lifetime's worth of work for a therapist.

LEMON: Yes.

DENT: But it just seems to me that -- the American people have to take -- are going to have to take responsibility for this. They think this is OK, if, you know, trashing our institutions and our norms and traditions is OK with them, then I think we have a bigger problem than we realize. LEMON: Just wait. I keep saying it. But just wait. I hope I'm here

when it happens. When there is a Democratic president and that president starts to do things that they consider outside the bounds of the presidency.

And I just people's heads will literally explode in real time. And I hope we can have it on live. So, Garrett, sources are telling or saying that more resignations at the DOJ are possible after the leadership overruled the prosecution of Roger Stone, the Roger Stone case. Could this have a long-term effect and damage the department, the Justice Department as an institution?

GRAFF: Well, let's remember why this sort of firewall went up and why presidents are supposed to stay so far away from the Department of Justice. It's Watergate. It was John Mitchell doing the hatchet work of Richard Nixon that sort of created this cultural norm that we have spent, you know, the better part of 50 years defending.

And remember, just sort of, what a bright line this has been. You know, Barack Obama in one TV interview said he didn't really think that Hillary Clinton damaged national security with her e-mail scandal. And that was seen during the Obama years as undue influence on the Justice Department. You know, which -- you know, that would not even --

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: Didn't the Justice Department come out with a report just about a month or so ago saying that nothing -- basically saying what the former president said about Hillary Clinton's e-mails?

GRAFF: Yes. Barack Obama had the benefit of actually being correct in the assessment of the intelligence community, the State Department and the FBI. Now, that is so far removed from where we are today, and Bill Barr has sort of made clear that this is the way that he intends to move the department.

LEMON: Do we still have separation of powers in this country now, Max?

BOOT: Well, not according to Donald Trump. I mean, he constantly says that he has the absolute right to do anything that he wants to do. He does not recognize the separation of powers.

And this is very scary because what we are seeing now is that so much of the restraint that we've gotten used to on presidential behavior is actually self-imposed restraint, that there are certain things the courts can do and other institutions, but ultimately it's up to the president to respect the rules of the road.

And now you have a president who doesn't respect the rules of the road and is trashing all of these, as Garrett was saying, all of these norms that we've accumulated since Watergate. And there is very little to stop him because he's surrounded by yes men, by toadies who are basically urging him on, not stopping him.

Republicans on Capitol Hill are afraid of him. There is not a break on him. There is a certain amount that journalists can do, and judges can do. But not that much. He has a lot of leeway. And we're seeing how much power he has. And he's now learning how much power he can exercise.

Because remember, when Donald Trump came into office, he knew almost nothing about the job. And now he's learned a lot and he's learned, wow, I can do all these things, and guess what, the 5th Avenue Republicans will not stop me.

And so, this is a pretty scary situation we're in, especially considering the fact that he could easily get re-elected.

LEMON: Charlie, I thought you wanted to weigh in. Did I hear you? If you can do it in quick halftime, I would appreciate it.

DENT: Yes. Separation of -- we don't have -- I feel like we have less a system of separation of powers any more, it's more separation of parties. It seems that the congressional party of the president feels it's their obligation to protect the president. That's been the case for some time. It's gotten worse.

And I think Congress has to stand up for its institutional interests and protect itself from an executive that's overstepping.

LEMON: Charlie, Susan, Garrett and Max, thank you. I appreciate it.

GRAFF: Thank you.

LEMON: The president has been fuming and tweeting up a storm in the wake of his impeachment victory. Are you ready for a spoiler alert? A lot of what he is saying doesn't pass the smell test. The Trump fact check with Daniel Dale is next.

[23:15:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Time now for the Trump fact check. The president making a series of false and misleading claims this week as he lashes out at the DOJ's handling of the case of his long-time ally Roger Stone.

Here to walk us through it, CNN's fact checker extraordinaire, Mr. Daniel Dale. Hi, Daniel.

DANIEL DALE, CNN REPORTER: Hi, Don.

LEMON: So, the president is fuming over this Stone case, making these false statements today about the Stone sentencing, the prosecutors who resigned and the Mueller investigation. Here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Nine years recommended by four people that perhaps they were Mueller people, I don't know who they were, prosecutors. They treated Roger Stone very badly. They treated everybody very badly. And if you look at the Mueller investigation, it was a scam because it was illegally set up. It was set up based on false documentation and false documents.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: OK. And he accused Mueller of lying to Congress in the tweet. There's a lot there. What's the truth?

DALE: There's a lot here so I'll try to go very quickly through these. Two of the four prosecutors on the Stone case who subsequently resigned had been on Mueller's team. Not all four. On the question of whether Stone was treated badly, well, that's subjective.

But remember that Stone was convicted of seven felonies, one of which was witness tampering. No, the Mueller --

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: By a jury.

DALE: By a jury.

LEMON: Yes.

DALE: No, the Mueller investigation was not illegally set up. Multiple courts have upheld its validity. We have a finding from a Justice Department inspector general that the FBI investigation which preceded Mueller taking over the investigation was legitimately founded. And, no, there is no evidence that Mueller lied to Congress.

Trump didn't specify what he was talking about, but the accusation he's previously made about Mueller lying which is that Mueller lied about whether he was seeking a reappointment as FBI director when he met with Trump prior to his appointment of special counsel.

[23:20:01]

It was contradicted by Steve Bannon, the former Trump advisor who said that Mueller had been invited there by the White House to advise Trump on what it takes to do that job, not to seek the job himself.

LEMON: Daniel, the president also directing his anger at the judge overseeing the Stone case, tweeting that this wild claim on Tuesday. And I quote here. "It is the judge that put Paul Manafort in solitary confinement, something not even a mobster Al Capone had to endure?" What is he talking about?

DALE: So, Judge Amy Berman Jackson, a federal judge at the District of Columbia, did not put Paul Manafort in solitary confinement. Here's what happened in brief.

Manafort breached his bail. He was out on bail. He committed another crime. He tampered with witnesses. He was convicted of that crime later. So, she revoked his bail and he went to jail. He was held by himself, but it was pretty nice for so-called solitary.

He had his own phone, he had access to a laptop, bathroom, shower, his own work space. He even said according to prosecutors that he was being treated like a VIP. He then complained about conditions and where he was being held.

So, another judge, a different judge, transferred him to a second jail where he was again held alone. The conditions were a little bit less luxurious, shall we say, but still weren't like the solitary you see on prison shows on TV. So, no, he was not treated like a criminal in need of discipline.

LEMON: This wasn't like Oz on HBO. OK. So, listen, Daniel, Trump tweeting his opinion that Stone's original sentencing was too harsh. And then adding, quote, "two months in jail for a swamp creature, yet nine years recommended for Roger Stone who was not even working for the Trump campaign."

So, the swamp creature aside, what do we know about Stone's involvement with the Trump campaign?

DALE: Yes. Don, Trump keeps saying that Roger Stone didn't even work for my campaign. Roger Stone worked for the campaign at least for the first couple months, and crucially, after he was either fired or resigned there's some dispute about what happened, we have evidence that Stone continued talking repeatedly to Trump past 2015 when he was fired or resigned into 2016. And not only with Trump, with other members of the campaign.

So, at first, he was an official advisor, and then it seems he was an informal advisor even after that.

LEMON: So, that, we have lots more to fact check and we'll have you back, of course. Daniel Dale, thank you so much. I appreciate you joining us.

DALE: Thank you.

LEMON: All right.

Well, the first two races of 2020 have people already naming winners and losers, but the truth is there's a long road, long, long road. Nineteen hundred to 1991 delegates. State of the race, next.

[23:25:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: So, let's take a look at the state of the race right now. Democrats now setting their sights on Nevada and South Carolina, two states with a lot more diversity among voters.

Let's bring in Democratic Strategist, Keith Boykin, Aisha Moodie- Mills, also Republican strategist Joseph Pinion. Good evening. I told you should get a podcast called Joe pinion. Give me -- give me your Joe Pinion.

(CROSSTALK)

JOSEPH PINION, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Along with (Inaudible). We got it. Let's get it done. LEMON: Let's discuss. Keith, you first. So, the current state of the race here has the former mayor of South Bend, Indiana, Mayor Pete Buttigieg narrowly ahead of Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders in the delegate count vote thus far. The rest of the folks trailing. But I mean, look, it takes 1,991 delegates. Do you get the sense that this is barely started or what?

KEITH BOYKIN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: It is barely started, it's very early. And Bernie Sanders is the apparent front runner now. He won the most votes in Iowa, the most votes in New Hampshire. The most recent polls that came out today show Bernie Sanders is surging.

This is the first time since Joe Biden entered the race where Joe Biden is not in the lead. So, the Biden campaign has got to be concerned. The black support is starting to evaporate a bit for Joe Biden.

We saw in the Quinnipiac poll just a few days ago it went down to 27 percent for Joe Biden. Twenty-two percent now for Mike Bloomberg, which we'll talk about I guess later.

But, you know, it's astonishing how fluid this race is. I've been following politics and involved in campaigns since 1988. I have never seen a campaign with so much fluidity as this one where I have no idea who is going to win. It could -- anybody could possibly take off.

LEMON: That truth. There is truth to that. So, when you look at the slimness between the two front runners, right, are we -- are we possibly looking -- I know it's far down the road -- that a brokered or contested convention here?

AISHA MOODIE-MILLS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think going into this whole thing we assumed that we would take it all the way to convention just like last time. We got pretty close to convention.

I mean, here's the thing, though. The reality is that America is in a crisis and Democrats are extremely scared right now. And so, I think people are feeling a sense of foreboding, not really wanting to make the wrong choice, and so they're not quite sure which choice they're going to make. I think that's why you see this so close.

We keep thinking it's going to break down an ideological line, is it going to be progressive versus conservative. But then, you know, what I keep seeing is that we're looking at newcomers versus the old guard. So, we don't know which way any of this is going to shift. And it's all so early. Because everything that's happening in February is really only 6 percent of the delegates for the --

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: But you know, people have weighed on this --

MOODIE-MILLS: Which is --

LEMON: -- you're going to --

MOODIE-MILLS: -- which is frustrating to me.

LEMON: -- Iowa and New Hampshire, like, you've got to have the momentum coming out of that because that means fund-raising. You need money to stay in the race.

(CROSSTALK)

MOODIE-MILLS: And that's not just the actual problem --

LEMON: You know, no one has ever won but now, blah, blah, blah.

MOODIE-MILLS: Because Iowa and New Hampshire are not at all reflective of the totality of America.

BOYKIN: Not at all.

MOODIE-MILLS: So why they get to be the bellwether --

(CROSSTALK)

BOYKIN: The totality of the Democratic Party --

(CROSSTALK)

PINION: I think, you know, the reality of where we are right now is that Iowa and New Hampshire do set the tone, right? So, for better or worse for this cycle that's what we have to deal with.

BOYKIN: Right.

PINION: And so, you know, my high school -- my college football coach told me a long time ago you can't win in the first half, but you most assuredly can lose it.

LEMON: That was a nice humble brag.

PINION: Yes. So, you know, like I said, you look, obviously we have the wealth of the delegates being awarded in March. But again, if you're finishing fourth place in Iowa in February, if you're finishing fifth place in New Hampshire in February, you might not make it through March. So, I think that that's what Democrats --

(CROSSTALK)

[23:30:04]

LEMON: So, who has the upper hand right now?

PINION: I mean, I would think right now Bernie Sanders certainly has the upper hand, certainly based on the fact that again, he is building this movement whether people want to call it a movement or not. Once movements get started, even the candidates themselves can't necessarily control it.

LEMON: So Keith, I've been wanting to talk to you about that, the struggle between the Democratic Party, progressives, and moderates, OK? This week, longtime Democratic strategist James Carville said, "We've got to decide what we want to be. Do we want to be an ideological cult or do we want to have a majoritarian instinct to be a majority party?"

OK? Sanders excites a lot of people. Shouldn't the voters decide that? I mean, he may have a point, but ultimately that's left to the voters.

BOYKIN: Yes, the voters should decide that. I heard what James Carville said live when he said it. I didn't agree with everything he said. I like the idea that it's important to win. You can't do anything if you don't win. That's the part I agree with.

I don't agree with his philosophy that you have to follow his approach in order to win or you're going to lose the election. I don't think that's necessarily true because I think we have a new Democratic Party. The Democratic Party is not the Democratic Party of the 1990s and the country isn't the country of the 1990s.

So, of course, we're going to have younger voices, we're going to have younger voice, and we're going to have more progressive voices. The country as a whole has moved in that direction, too, on issue after issue. You see that on climate change, on LGBT issues, on criminal justice reform, on issue after issue, the American health care reform.

The American people are moving close and closer to where the Democratic Party is moving. They're not moving rightward. And the younger people are certainly aren't moving rightward. That's the future of the country and the future of the party.

LEMON: OK. I understand what you're saying. But don't you think he's right? None of this matters unless you have power. We can sit here and discuss --

BOYKIN: That's what I said.

LEMON: We're going to be discussing it. People are going to be arguing on text and Twitter.

BOYKIN: I agree --

LEMON: If you don't have someone in the White House --

MOODIE-MILLS: Here is the problem. It is that we are not defining power.

BOYKIN: We're not defining how you get that power.

MOODIE-MILLS: How you get that power --

BOYKIN: I agree that you can't do anything until you get the power. But first, who is to say that James Carville has the only recipe --

(CROSSTALK)

MOODIE-MILLS: I don't know why we are still having some conversation about James Carville.

LEMON: Can I tell you how you get the power?

BOYKIN: Don mentioned it.

LEMON: Let me tell me you how to get the power. You get the power the way the Republicans do it. You get the power --

BOYKIN: They cheated.

LEMON: -- by falling in line instead of having a purity test for every single --

BOYKIN: No, no, no.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: Hold on. There is no perfect candidate.

BOYKIN: I agree there's no perfect candidate. I'm sorry. I'll let you talk in a second. I agree there is no perfect candidate. I agree that you have to fall in line. But this is not the time to do t. I know Democrats are getting all up -- listen to me, everybody is all up in arms.

LEMON: In the primary.

BOYKIN: Exactly. You do it -- my belief is you fight your heart out during the primary. Then once you pick a nominee, even if it's somebody -- I don't like Mike Bloomberg. I hate Mike Bloomberg. I don't want Mike Bloomberg being the nominee.

LEMON: Keith, that's a strong word.

BOYKIN: I do not -- I was -- I was a resident -- we'll talk about it in the next segment -- I was a resident of New York when Mike Bloomberg was mayor. I do not want him to be president of the United States. You know what? If by some chance Democratic Party nominates him, I will vote for Mike Bloomberg because that is how --

LEMON: Will you vote for him or will you ride or die when you say he is the best thing since sliced bread?

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: That's the difference. Because you guys were here, we're going to talk about that. During 2016 election, every single Republican came on the show and said, I hate Donald Trump, he's terrible, he's this, and he's this. And before the election, he is the best thing since sliced bread.

PINION: But I think --

BOYKIN: That's a lie (ph).

(LAUGHTER)

LEMON: Let me get this in. Sanders was on with Anderson earlier and responded to Carville. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: James, in all due respect, is a political hack who said very terrible things when he was working for Clinton against Barack Obama. I think he said some of the same things. Look, we are taking on the establishment. This is no secret to anybody. We are taking on Trump, the Republican establishment, Carville, and the democratic establishment.

But at the end of the day, the grassroots movement that we are putting together of young people, of working people, of people of color, want real change.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: He should sometimes say how he really feels.

PINION: Yes. I mean, look --

LEMON: The guy says -- Bernie Sanders is like always, I said what I said.

PINION: I think that's his appeal to the people who actually like him. I think Democrats have to be very cautious right now. I think they face a prisoner's dilemma, much worse than what Republicans faced in 2016, because even Donald Trump -- you know, people like myself sits up here and say he will never be the nominee. There are more people casting votes for people who are not named Donald Trump than Donald Trump himself. Well, guess what, Democrats right now are even more fractured than we were.

So now, if you have somebody like Amy Klobuchar who sees a peak in New Hampshire the way that John Kasich peaked in New Hampshire but now doesn't have the time to put together the infrastructure the same way that he failed, doesn't have the time to raise the money the same way he failed, now he stays in two dates past his expiration date, the same way that Amy Klobuchar could be facing, the same way that Elizabeth Warren --

[23:35:00]

PINION: Does she try to make a last stand in Massachusetts the same way that Marco Rubio tried to --

LEMON: What he says -- we -- because you are Republican.

BOYKIN: The Republican Party is not the same as the Democratic Party. We don't select delegates the same way. We have proportional representation. We have winner take all --

PINION: That's why -- that's my point. That's why it's worse. Because, again, now you're giving out these things proportionally, right? Now, again, you have Warren hangs in there two dates past her prime. Now, she's trying to make a last stand in Massachusetts. So, again -- LEMON: I got to go, everyone. We have more to talk. Everybody stay with me. Michael Bloomberg making his first public comments after a tape from 2015 resurfaced where he demanded stop-and-frisk -- defended, I should say, stop-and-frisk policing. Well, we're going to bring you what he said and we're going to talk to his campaign's national political chair next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:40:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Democratic presidential candidate Michael Bloomberg is addressing the use of stop-question-and-frisk when he was a mayor of New York, saying that he took "too long to understand the impact it had on black and Latino communities."

That comes after an audio from a 2015 event was unearthed with Bloomberg heard discussing the controversial policy in blunt terms. Here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAEL BLOOMBERG (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE (voice-over): We put all the cops in minority neighborhoods. Yes, that's true. Why do we do it? Because that's where all the crime is. And the way you get the guns out of the kids' hands is to throw them up against the wall and frisk them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: So joining me now to discuss is another former Mayor, Michael Nutter, of Philadelphia. He is a national political chair for the Bloomberg campaign. Mayor, appreciate you joining us. Listen --

MICHAEL NUTTER, FORMER PHILADELPHIA MAYOR, NATIONAL POLITICAL CHAIR FOR BLOOMBERG CAMPAIGN: Sure. Thanks, Don.

LEMON: Let's just be honest about this. Many people find that these newly unearthed comments are offensive. They say that it's unacceptable. Is Mayor Michael Bloomberg's history with stop-and-frisk something that black voters are just supposed to overlook? What do you say to that?

NUTTER: Well, first and foremost, Don, these comments which I heard on the tape, they are insensitive, they are inappropriate, and they lack the empathy that I certainly know is within the head and heart and soul of Mike Bloomberg.

So, they are unacceptable. And he needs to further apologize for even making those kinds of comments. They are hurtful certainly to number of people, but especially people of color, African Americans, Latinos and others who were affected by that policy.

No, I don't expect folks are just going to overlook it, but I would certainly hope that like any mayor, any high-ranking public official, people would also look at the totality of his service. Mike Bloomberg cares passionately about people, cares passionately about folks in New York and across the country.

He has done more to reduce violence not only in his own city, but cities across America, more than any single living person. And certainly African Americans and Latinos, especially African American men and Latino men ultimately benefited from some of the other measures that Mike took --

LEMON: Listen --

NUTTER: -- efforts to reduce violence, increase educational opportunity and jobs. And so, you know, it is a complicated story, but on this particular narrow issue, Mike has to continue to explain and seek forgiveness from the public.

LEMON: Listen -- OK. There is a comparison here in the sense that the current president was a supporter -- strong advocate for stop-and- frisk and is somehow tried to use it against Mayor Bloomberg and then pulled it back.

NUTTER: Right.

LEMON: The difference, I think, being is if this had come out of the current president's mouth, he didn't apologize for it, right? But he has --

NUTTER: Well, he doesn't apologize for anything, so we all know that.

LEMON: All right. You would be upset if this had come out of his mouth, right?

NUTTER: I'm sorry. Say that one more time, Don.

LEMON: If he had said the same thing, you would be upset by that?

NUTTER: The president?

LEMON: Yes. The same thing that --

NUTTER: Yes.

LEMON: -- Michael Bloomberg said.

NUTTER: Yes.

LEMON: OK.

NUTTER: But I don't said that Mike said it as well.

LEMON: OK.

NUTTER: I mean it's just unacceptable. We have to say that.

LEMON: At the very least, this Mayor Bloomberg has apologized for it, whether you want to take his apology, what have you. But a lot of African Americans are, hearing sort of a groundswell, my own unscientific poll. But we have new national polling showing that he has been doing well with black voters. He is in second place behind the former vice president, Joe Biden.

NUTTER: Right.

LEMON: And he did pick up endorsements from three members of the Congressional Black Caucus today. Why do you think that he is gaining this ground?

NUTTER: Well, I mean, as you well know, this election is so complicated. I listened to the earlier panel. I mean, Democrats are still trying to figure out where people are in this election. More and more people are getting to know the record of Mike Bloomberg. I think one of the driving forces is that many, many Democrats are saying, I may not agree with everything about a candidate.

Your panel earlier talked about these purity tests. Folks are focused on who can beat Donald Trump in the fall. And African Americans and Latinos in particular have been devastated by many of the actions and policies and some of the general craziness coming out of the Trump administration.

[23:45:03]

NUTTER: So voters are, in fact, trying to make a distinction between, I may not agree with you about A, but now an even larger issue is who can actually beat Donald Trump in the fall. And that is driving a lot of voters certainly to Mike Bloomberg because of the operation that we have, 40 states up and operating, he's visited every Super Tuesday state, 2,100 staff. And again, the record is coming out. You know, some of it are not good for us.

But overall, Mike Bloomberg has a great record of service as a business person, as a leader, of course as New York's mayor, three times elected, as well as a philanthropist. So, I think the voters always take a lot more factors into consideration than, you know, might happen on television and with people who are really in the business and in the weeds of things.

Voters want to know who can win, who can take this guy electorally out of office, and increasingly many people are saying, I think that Mike Bloomberg guy actually has what it takes to win.

LEMON: I got to tell you, I have been hearing that, and so this is an important discussion. We're going to continue the conversation. You know you're welcome here any time. You've been on the show a lot.

NUTTER: Thank you.

LEMON: Please come back to discuss this very important topic.

NUTTER: Glad to.

LEMON: Mayor Nutter, appreciate it. And also, we extend -- Mayor Nutter, we extend to Michael Bloomberg, he's welcome to come on the show, I'd love to interview him and talk to him about this issue and others.

NUTTER: Thank you.

LEMON: Thank you, sir.

NUTTER: I actually recommended that.

LEMON: Thank you. So, Keith, Aisha, and Joe, they are here with me now and I know they have a lot to say about this. They were sharing stuff on their phones. They were shaking their heads. We'll discuss that right after the break.

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[23:50:00]

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LEMON: So Mike Bloomberg on the defensive tonight for his past support of stop-and-frisk, saying that he has apologized and that he took too long to understand the policy's impact on communities of color. Back with me now are Keith Boykin, Aisha Moodie-Mills and also Joseph Pinion.

So, I'm glad you're all here. You heard Mayor Nutter, a respected former mayor of Philadelphia, and now he is co-chair of the Bloomberg campaign. What is your reaction to the mayor, meaning Bloomberg, former mayor's stop-and-frisk comments? Do you think it is going to hurt his campaign with minorities?

PINION: I mean, look, I can just speak personally. My father was born in Louisiana. He joined the military. White people younger than him were calling him "boy." He tried to register to vote and couldn't do it. He is telling me that if it's Mike Bloomberg versus Joe Biden, if Joe Biden is not going to be viable, he is voting for Mike Bloomberg.

So I think that Democrats face their own, you know, "Access Hollywood" moment right now. We went from "grab her by you know what" and now "throw them up against the wall and frisk them."

I think, you know, if Bakari was saying earlier, you know, I don't know who these black people are, they are going to vote for Bloomberg, get your popcorn and say get ready because a lot of black people who are older, who realized that it's not necessarily about what they're going to say, this once in a generation matrix, where it is Donald Trump or somebody else, I think they will hold their nose --

LEMON: Are you listening to him because I'm hearing the same thing from folks down in Louisiana? The same thing. I say, how can you say that? And they say, because he is the one who can beat Donald Trump and that's all that matters. Everything else should fall by the wayside. They view Trump as an existential threat that is worse than anything that Michael Bloomberg or anyone in the democratic ticket has ever done or ever could be -- ever could do.

MOODIE-MILLS: That is all true. Donald Trump absolutely is an existential threat. I think what breaks my heart and is just so sad is that black people in America have had to tolerate the worst racist or the least of the racist. That has just been our plight. I think what we are seeing is desperation and lack of solutions in front of us that people will literally drink the sand because they don't have any water around them.

LEMON: Don't you think older people know that? They know that, Aisha.

MOODIE-MILLS: I think older people are seasoned enough to not necessarily --

LEMON: Older people -- the people that we're talking about had to walk to school because they couldn't go to the white school. They know. They know that.

MOODIE-MILLS: I know who these folks are. What I am saying is the sad state of our democracy. Here's what I'm most concerned about. Let us get through this primary. Let's say in some mythical magical way, $300 billion on air buys you the nomination. We know all this stuff. It's coming out now. I think that there's going to be a battle for the airwaves.

I think that Donald Trump's people are looking at all this Michael Bloomberg oppo research and they're going to saturate the airwaves with it. So what happens in a general election? My concern is less about whether the majority of black people are going to vote for Democratic nominee, it is whether they actually are going to come out of their homes to vote in the first place, because the Democrats don't dump Trump and get back the White House if turnout --

LEMON: Don't you think they're less apt to come out if you make it a purity test no matter who it is, whatever the issue is --

MOODIE-MILLS: No, I think --

LEMON: -- whether stop-and-frisk or some other issue?

MOODIE-MILLS: -- everybody is just more of the same. If everybody is just more of the same, I think --

LEMON: OK. Listen. Don't you think -- I'm not just talking about Michael Bloomberg here. But don't you think doubt begets doubt? Don't you think that I can't get along with that? Listen. I understand a lot of people were harmed by stop-and-frisk and a lot of other policies by a whole bunch of other people. I get it. I'm a black man. But I also understand that older people, I respect their opinion because they have lived through stuff that I have not lived through.

[23:55:00]

LEMON: And so I take their opinion and their assessment into account. I think that's really important. Go on.

BOYKIN: I respect our elders. I respect everyone who is a voter in this process. But I'm a voter in a process, too.

LEMON: Right.

BOYKIN: I was stopped by the police in New York by Michael Bloomberg's NYPD during his administration at the New York 125th Street subway station in Harlem. I don't feel like that's inconsequential. I still bear the scars of watching other young black men who have been stopped by police. I don't think that you will just ignore and say --

LEMON: You're absolutely right.

BOYKIN: -- let us put it under the rug and let --

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: -- people are saying it's inconsequential.

BOYKIN: My point is, like I said before, I do not like Mike Bloomberg. I am saying we should litigate the case against any of the candidates we dislike and litigate the case for the candidates we do like. When we come to November, we make our decision.

LEMON: OK. I got to go.

PINION: I will just say that right now while Democrats are arguing, Trump is out here doing African American outreach --

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: Just where we are.

PINION: He's doing black outreach. He is getting white sucker mothers to show up at the --

LEMON: OK. I got to go. Thank you so much for watching. Listen, Carville says you've got to stop winning arguments and you have to win elections. That's really what it's about. Thanks for watching. Our coverage continues.

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