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Don Lemon Tonight
A.G. Bill Barr's Veracity Highly Criticized; President Trump Not Done Yet with His Vengeance; State of the Race Getting Hotter Each Day; President Trump and Michael Bloomberg Escalate Their Personal War on the Campaign Trail; Organizers Begun Holding Events in Black Communities Where They Lavish Praise on President Trump While Handing Out Thousands of Dollars in Giveaways. Aired 11p-12a ET
Aired February 13, 2020 - 23:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[23:00:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DON LEMON, CNN HOST: This is CNN Tonight. I'm Don Lemon.
We've got a busy hour coming up and we're going to catch you up on all the big headlines.
The attorney general, William Barr sending a public message to President Trump, stop tweeting about cases being handled by the Justice Department. He says they're making it impossible for him to do his job. But the White House says Trump is OK with the remarks.
Democratic candidates now fanning out across Nevada and South Carolina, ahead of the upcoming contests in those key states. What's Tom Steyer's strategy to attract voters? We're going to get some answers when he joins me live.
The battle of the billionaires, the barbs are getting very personal between President Trump and Michael Bloomberg who is fighting for the Democratic nomination to take on Trump in November. And tonight, Bloomberg is apologizing for his remarks about stop and frisk.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAEL BLOOMBERG (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: There is one aspect, approach that I deliberately -- deeply regret, the abuse of a police practice called stop and frisk.
I defended it, looking back, for too long, because I didn't understand then the unintended pain it was causing to young black and brown families and their kids. I should have acted sooner and faster to stop it. I didn't, and for that I apologize.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: And it is a controversial way of encouraging African-American voters to cast their ballots for Trump. But is it voter outreach or is it pandering? You can decide for yourself.
But first, let's talk about the attorney general sending a very pointed message to the president.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WILLIAM BARR, UNITED STATES ATTORNEY GENERAL: To have public statements and tweets made about the department, about people in the department, our men and women here, about cases pending in the department, and about judges before whom we have cases make it impossible for me to do my job and to assure the courts and the prosecutors and the department that we're doing our work with integrity.
I cannot do my job here at the department with constant background commentary that undercuts me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: OK. Let's discuss now, Elie Honig is here. Margaret Hoover, and John Avlon. Thank you all.
MARGARET HOOVER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Good to be here.
LEMON: Good to see you.
HOOVER: Great to be here.
LEMON: Good to be here. I haven't seen you guys in a long time. He is here all the time.
ELIE HONIG, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: I don't know who's -- who's watching the kids, though?
LEMON: I have to -- I know. He has to wake -- I have to wake up early to see this gentleman so it's good to see you late.
Elie, let's start with you. Because William Barr is saying that the president's tweets make it impossible to do his job. But you need to look at the history. He misled the public on the Mueller investigation. Now he is kneecapping the Roger Stone prosecutors. How do we take this at face value? How are we supposed to believe that this is even real?
HONIG: I don't believe it. But let's just for the sake of argument take it at face value. OK. But you have to weigh it against the entirety of the record. These are words. Words matter, these matters, but Bill Barr has now been in office as attorney general exactly one year. It turns out he was confirmed February 14th, 2019.
Today is February 14. Happy Valentine's Day.
JOHN AVLON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Happy Valentine's.
HONIG: Right. Happy Bill Barr confirmation anniversary. But let's look at what he's done over that year. I think this statement today was the first thing he's done in any sense that does not please or might not please Donald Trump. On the other side, look at his actions, like you said. He squashed the
Mueller investigation, he distorted Mueller's findings, he tried to keep the whistleblower complaint from going over to Congress even though the law said it must. He's interceded on the Flynn case. He's interceded on the Stone case and a dozen other things. So, actions speak louder than words.
LEMON: I want to, this is from the Washington Post reporting that the tension is spilling over because the Justice Department hasn't brought charges against the former FBI director James Comey and our colleague Andrew McCabe, by the way, and that is infuriating the president, more evidence though that this is about vengeance from President Trump and getting Barr to carry it out. No?
AVLON: Yes. I mean, that's clearly what -- the president is on a revenge bender one week after impeachment. And look, Bill Barr has had his back. He's just basically saying would you stop saying the quiet part out loud --
LEMON: Yes.
AVLON: -- because it's making it more difficult. It's all what Trump supporters always say about the president, don't listen to what he says, look at what he does. Well, apply that standard to Barr and Trump's got very little reason to be upset which may be one reason why the first cabinet official to call out the president also unusually didn't attract the president's wrath tonight.
HOOVER: One of the things I always look at though, is how is the conservative commentary at specifically responding to this set of events. Right? Whenever there's a wedge on the right, where are the conservative grown-ups, quote, unquote, "falling on the line?"
[23:04:59]
Mitch McConnell and most of them are saying, you know what, if the attorney general is saying this is making it hard to do their job, maybe the president should stop tweeting. And, you know what --
(CROSSTALK)
AVLON: For him to stop tweeting.
HOOVER: You've got to imagine that this is actually -- and I asked Elie about this, this has got to be making it very difficult for Bill Barr to actually lead the department. If the president is directly interfering with cases in his department, this makes it very difficult, he has to say something in order to continue to have credibility in his department.
AVLON: Yes.
LEMON: OK, OK, OK. But why now? Because there have been so many -- he's been -- it's not like the president stopped tweeting ever.
HOOVER: Because four prosecutors have just resigned in a case the president directly on Twitter intervened with. I mean, look, this was a prosecution, a process that had a jury, that has a judge, that has a series of deliberations. The president interfering in the most basic operations of our justice system that the average citizens are a part of on a daily basis --
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: But he didn't have to -- the Justice Department didn't have to do that.
HONIG: Right.
LEMON: I mean, if you're going to carry water you can't complain that your arms are tired.
HOOVER: I'm just saying -- I'm just saying --
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: My gosh, I've been carrying your water and now my arms are tired --
HOOVER: -- this is about -- this is --
LEMON: -- I can't carry it anymore.
HOOVER: No, no, no, no. But it's not that, it's that he's trying to have credibility with the people he's leading --
LEMON: Yes.
HOOVER: -- and he couldn't not do that anymore.
AVLON: You're trying to have -- you know, he's trying to have his cake and eat it too. I mean, he can't have U.S. attorneys in outright revolt trying to calm their folks, you know, for saying, look, the president is trying to politicize justice. That's a cornerstone. That's why folks were so upset when this came down.
Barr should be asked why did you disregard the sentencing guidelines. But the bigger picture is, Barr has a pattern. We have seen this pattern. The president has also gone after prosecutors, judges and as of today jurors.
LEMON: Yes.
HOOVER: Yes.
LEMON: But, do you think that --
HOOVER: Yes.
LEMON: What is -- Elie, what is the whoops after the four prosecutors have gone too far and this is about trying to -- this is clean up on aisle four. HONIG: He had to tamp down. He can't have a mutiny, and there were
growing indications that have going to happen. And there were people, the rank and file people, the people who work every day in the Justice Department who do their jobs where there is all sorts of sings of discontent.
And I can put myself back in that situation and imagine how it feels to be under this Justice Department, you need to see something. You need to see some statement. And I think he wanted to keep the situation from spinning out of his political control.
LEMON: All right. Standby, everyone. Because let me bring in Daniel Dale. He is our fact checker extraordinaire. Daniel, welcome to the program. I have to ask you about something that he said to Geraldo Rivera, about his other lawyer, Rudy Giuliani. I'm talking about the president's --
(BEGIN VOICE CLIP)
GERALDO RIVERA, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT-AT-LARGE: Was it strange to send Rudy Giuliani to Ukraine, your personal lawyer, are you sorry you did that?
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Not at all. Rudy was a great crime fighter. You know that maybe better than anybody.
RIVERA: Of course, yes.
(END VOICE CLIP)
LEMON: So, Daniel, that's a blatant contradiction from what he said before.
DANIEL DALE, CNN REPORTER: That is literally the exact opposite of what he told Bill O'Reilly in an interview in November. Your team has cued up the clip. Listen to what he said in November.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BILL O'REILLY, FORMER FOX NEWS HOST: Giuliani is your personal lawyer.
TRUMP: Yes.
O'REILLY: So, you didn't direct him to go to Ukraine to do anything or --
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: No, I didn't direct him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DALE: So, what has changed now? Well, perhaps Trump just thinks impeachment is over with, I've been acquitted, I can say whatever I want, perhaps he forgot that he ever denied this, regardless, though, what he's saying now is the truth, he did direct Rudy to go there. We heard that not only from Rudy himself but from testimony from others in the impeachment inquiry.
LEMON: All right. Daniel, stand by. Because there are lots of murmurs. I mean, you were saying exactly to -- he forgot, and you -- what did you say?
HONIG: Yes.
HOOVER: I said I can't even believe that he did it -- the president of the United States did an interview with Bill O'Reilly.
LEMON: All right.
HOOVER: Sorry.
AVLON: There's some mystery there. But, look, I mean, you know, the fact is, the president probably forgot that he lied. This is what happens when you sort of live in a web of lies, occasionally you contradict yourself but I would pass impeachment, so.
(CROSSTALK)
HOOVER: Yes. To be fair --
AVLON: So, what's the recourse?
HOOVER: -- at that point he might not have -- he might have regretted it more than he regrets it now. I mean, we know the president is always lean in, lean in to the victory.
LEMON: Yes. The former White House chief of staff John Kelly, right, the Atlantic is -- let's talk about it. The Atlantic is reporting that he spoke about impeachment witness Alexander Vindman at an event and he said this.
He did exactly what we teach them to do from cradle to grave, we teach them, don't follow an illegal order and if you're ever given one, you'll raise it to whoever gives it to you that this is an illegal order, and then tell your boss. So why now?
HONIG: So, better late than never, but I agree. Right. There's a lot of post-facto courage in this administration. Right? People are not willing to come out and do things like we saw this week from the prosecutors, resigning, taking a principled stand.
That said, better that Kelly speaks up now than never. And let's just put to rest this notion that Vindman did something wrong or improper or deserved what he got when they walk him out of the White House. That was retaliation, straight up.
AVLON: Absolutely.
LEMON: Do you agree?
(CROSSTALK) HOOVER: Yes, and his brother.
LEMON: Yes. And his brother who had nothing to do with is.
HOOVER: This is a man who that has shrapnel in his body because he served in the front lines of Iraq.
LEMON: And Purple Heart.
HOOVER: And a Purple heart.
LEMON: So, but, Margaret, why does it seem like the president's former staffers are only coming out when they have books to sell or paid speeches, why not do it when in the moment when it matters?
[23:10:09]
HOOVER: John, as you and I both know, courage is as hard to find in Washington as water in a desert. It is moral courage and political courage are what we're missing the most.
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: But we're just talking about Vindman. That's courage, but then --
HOOVER: No. Well, and --
LEMON: You mean --
HOOVER: Vindman, I mean, we saw it with Vindman. We saw it -- you've seen it with -- few and far between, we all know it, you guys cover that every night.
LEMON: But you're talking Republicans in Washington now, courage is --
(CROSSTALK)
HOOVER: Well, that's what I thought you were asking, but yes, I am talking about that.
LEMON: Yes.
AVLON: Look, the entire Senate with the exception of Mitt Romney has been cowed by fear of the president and you did have principled people stand up and speak out and now they're being retaliated against. But you should have people who know better, not in paid speeches, not in books. Tell the truth when it counts, when it matters.
Because there's moral authority in the president's former chief of staff, saying no. And unfortunately, we need to be reminded right now that lying is not acceptable, that being intimidated into doing something that abuses the oath you take is not OK.
LEMON: Daniel, listen, President Trump is also making a false claim about Vindman in that Geraldo Rivera interview. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VOICE CLIP)
TRUMP: With many people on the call, the only one -- this guy ran and said he didn't like the call. First of all, that's very insubordinate. Why wouldn't he go to his immediate -- you know, he went to Congress, or he went to Schiff or he went to somebody.
(END VOICE CLIP)
LEMON: What really happened, Daniel?
DALE: So, Vindman was, of course, not the only person who heard that call and had concerns about it. But aside from that Vindman did not run with these concerns to Adam Schiff. He did not run to Congress. What he did was go to the lawyer, the counsel for the National Security Council where he worked, John Eisenberg.
Now, it's possible as Trump has argued to say that he should have gone to his direct superior, Tim Morrison, and Morrison has said I wish he did that. However, the reason Vindman explained he did go to Eisenberg was that Eisenberg specifically told him before that to come to Eisenberg with concerns about Trump's conduct with regard to Ukraine.
And Morrison also said that look, he was new in this job, he'd been there less than month and his predecessor had had a different attitude toward reporting up the chain of command than he did. So, no. He didn't go to Schiff. He didn't go to Congress. And Vindman only spoke to Congress under subpoena.
LEMON: More groans from the folks in the studio when you heard the president's remark.
HONIG: Can I speak for one of --
AVLON: Sure.
HONIG: Eisenberg, who Daniel just referred to, the lawyer who Vindman went to, he was one of the people who was subpoenaed and clammed up and was told not to testify and did not testify, so it's even more hypocritical to try to take a -- to try to spin some lie after the fact given that.
LEMON: Yes. John, let's -- I want to talk to you and move on and talk to you about CNN's new season of the race for the White House. The first episode tracks a history-making 2008 race between Barack Obama and John McCain, a clip describing how McCain went to Baghdad to clear his mind during his struggling campaign.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In Baghdad, on the 4th of July, surrounded by the military he so admires, John McCain attended the reenlistment and naturalization ceremony.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When he got to the ceremony you saw boots of the guys who were going to be made naturalized citizens there. They had been killed in action and that got to him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: John came back and told us this story and he was very emotional, and he said, I looked at that and I realized I need to fight as much for my country as they are.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: So, John, John McCain was one of President Trump's biggest critics before he died. Tell me about the transformation of the Republican Party that has happened from 2008 to 2020, with the races here, what happened?
AVLON: Well, you can't find two people, let alone two politicians more different than John McCain and Donald Trump. We're talking about courage in American politics, John McCain personified it, the documentary goes through, he refused early release as a prisoner of war in the Hanoi camp -- continued that courage throughout the '08 campaign.
That moment that was just shown, his campaign was cratering, people thought he should drop out. And he decided to double down. He went to Iraq to clear his head and reminded why he was running in the first place.
Also, that key moment in the late stages of the campaign when some of the supporters came out and called Barack Obama an Arab and a Muslim and he said no, ma'am. He's a good picture of America, we just happen to disagree. That's the kind of profile and courage you don't see any more and that's one of the things that this documentary reminds us.
HOOVER: And it also gives us a wonderful portrait of patriotism and how you serve your country. Look, again, you do get this remarkable contrast, you had, I'll never get this most recent State of the Union out of my mind where President Trump plucked a soldier from the front lines in Iraq -- in Afghanistan and brought him home and created this reunification for the whole country to see all to act -- to demonstrate how what a kind and gracious leader he is. Right?
[23:15:00]
It's all about him. Meanwhile, John McCain, who was advocating for the surge strategy in Iraq, had a son on the front lines as a marine in Iraq, never used his family or paraded his own personal heroism as an illustration of what American courage looks like.
LEMON: Well, that's class, and you can't buy it.
HONIG: That's right.
LEMON: And so, right? There you go, John McCain was a hero, may he rest in peace.
AVLON: Absolutely.
LEMON: And we thank him for what he did for this country. Thank you, all. Be sure to tune in, an all-new season of race for the White House, it
premieres Sunday at 9 p.m. only on CNN.
And up next, the state of the race in a very crowded Democratic field there are two real billionaires vying for the chance to run -- I'm talking about Steyer and Bloomberg, to run against President Trump and want to -- what's so funny? And one of them is here tonight.
There's Tom Steyer. Tom there laughing in the studio. We're going to talk to you on the other side of the break, we'll see you.
[23:20:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: I want to turn now to the state of the race, all eyes were in Nevada and South Carolina where the electorate is a whole lot more diverse.
Let's discuss now with Democratic presidential candidate, Mr. Tom Steyer is here. Good to see you, sir. Thank you very much for joining us.
TOM STEYER (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Don, it's great to be with you.
LEMON: So, let's look backwards and then let's look forward. OK? Because we just came off the Iowa and New Hampshire -- the caucus in the primary. So, you haven't picked up any delegates in those two places, but we're nine days away from Nevada, where Latino voters make up a much larger part of the Democratic electorate. You're in Vegas right now. So, what are you doing to appeal to those voters?
STEYER: Well, let me say this. I've spent more time in Nevada than anybody else. We have a great team on the ground, Don. I'm doing really well in the polls, either in second or third. I have a long history with the Latino community across the board.
I come from a state that's 40 percent Latino, California. And I've been working on immigration policy for 35 years. I was the co-chair of the Latino Victory Fund in 2016 and 2018. I've personally spent millions of dollars hiring lawyers to represent people under threat of deportation.
So, I have a long history with this community and I'm really happy to be here in Nevada, in a diverse state, showing that I can put together the kind of coalition that really represents the Democratic Party and that we're going to have to have in the fall of 2020 in order to beat Donald Trump.
LEMON: OK. All right, so that sounds like optimism to me. So, I want to talk now about the other billionaire in this race, the Democratic race, and that's Michael Bloomberg. He has seen a surge in the polls this week, Bloomberg getting so much traction, do you think that changes your role in this race? STEYER: I don't. I'm really different from Michael Bloomberg. I mean,
we have a completely different history. I'm a straight up progressive, Don, you know, I think that in many ways I'm the most progressive person in this race.
So, I think Mike has a very different history. I think that, you know, people are going to have to judge him both on his message and on his behavior over the last several decades and me too.
And, you know, we are different people, we both have a business background but I've been putting together coalitions of American citizens to take on unchecked corporate power for a decade and I've never lost.
I mean, I'm a progressive who thinks this government has been bought by corporations. I've been fighting them for a decade. I want to go to Washington as an outsider and take back this government from the corporations who've bought it. That's my job. I don't think Mike Bloomberg would say anything like that.
LEMON: Let's talk a little bit more about the upcoming contests, OK. Because there's a lot of recent polling out in Nevada and South Carolina. But there's a Fox poll, it's from January, and it's in South Carolina and it showed you in second place, both overall, and the support among black voters. What has been working for you there, what's working?
STEYER: Well, Don, let me say this, I don't know if you watched the last debate between Democratic contenders, but basically two-thirds through the debate I said, look, we have gone through this debate and no one has mentioned race.
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: I saw it. I did see it.
STEYER: An American society in virtually every policy area there is an unspoken important subtext of race. And I believe that we have to talk about that and we have to address it.
I'm the only person running for president as far as I know who will say, openly and consistently, that I'm for reparations, that I believe something happened, we have to acknowledge it, we have to retell the story of the last 400 years plus of African-Americans in America, and work towards solutions towards what was done wrong.
And also, to acknowledge the contributions that the African-American community has made for those 400 years. Not just in building the country, but also, the kind of moral leadership that has come out of the black community, not for decades or generations, but literally for centuries.
LEMON: Tom Steyer --
(CROSSTALK)
STEYER: I think when we do that we're going to come up with solutions across the board.
LEMON: Listen, it's a pleasure to have you. Good luck out there on the campaign trail and I wish you, you know, stamina because all of you guys need it. It's just the beginning. Thank you, sir. I appreciate it.
STEYER: Thanks, Don. I appreciate you.
LEMON: Up next, a man who really wrote the "Art of the Deal," the one who really wrote it weighs in on the battle of the New York billionaires that's turning into a real street brawl with insults flying. Loser, carnival parking clown, that's next.
[23:25:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: The president setting his sights on a new target, Mike Bloomberg. Trump is ramping up his tweets on the former New York City mayor, he is now going after him more than any other candidate and it's really getting ugly.
Joining me now is Tony Schwartz. Tony Schwartz is the co-author of the book the president says is his favorite, and is "The Art of the Deal", I should say the author because you wrote the whole thing, right, but that's how it works.
Thank you.
If you look at this president's Twitter feed it is clear that he is obsessed with Mike Bloomberg. What's that all about, Tony?
TONY SCHWARTZ, AUTHOR, THE ART OF THE DEAL: I mean, it's a very simple thing, Donald Trump, his net worth is completely connected to his sense of personal worth.
And Bloomberg's worth, you know, net worth is 100 or 200 times or 300 times what Trump's is, and that drives him crazy.
[23:30:00]
I think he is also genuinely scared that Bloomberg can use that money to defeat him.
LEMON: Let's put this up. This is according to Forbes's annual list of the richest people. Bloomberg is eighth on that list. Donald Trump is 275th.
SCHWARTZ: Which is nonsense, anyway. He is nowhere near that.
LEMON: You don't think he is anywhere near 275th?
SCHWARTZ: Oh, my god, no. I mean, he hasn't been worth a fraction of what he said he's worth ever. LEMON: But he's obsessed with this list. So this is the first person that he really actually has to respect in that manner, and he knows the truth about him and is willing to spill it.
SCHWARTZ: Yes. I don't know that he's so worried about the truth being spilled. The truth has been spilled about Trump for the last four years and it -- you know, it doesn't necessarily seem to crack the edifice. But I think he is genuinely awed. He will never acknowledge that anymore, but genuinely awed by Bloomberg's wealth. By the way, Bloomberg earned it. Donald Trump inherited it.
LEMON: Yes. Well, Bloomberg says that knows. Here's what Bloomberg says. He said to Donald Trump, "We know many of the same people in New York. Behind your back, they laugh at you and call you a carnival barking clown. They know you inherited a fortune and squandered it with stupid deals and incompetence."
I mean, is part of Bloomberg's power that he understands Trump's insecurities?
SCHWARTZ: I think he has a good feel for Trump. Look, he's been around him for a long time and they travelled in parallel circles, I would say, in the New York kind of world of power. Yeah, he has a -- he has a sense of how to needle Trump. He also has 40 people, I assume, Bloomberg writing these tweets, so he probably got a great cast of very, very good authors doing it for him, helping him.
LEMON: Yeah. This feud is nasty and is personal, as we know. Trump called Bloomberg. Let me get the quote right here. A 5'4" mass of dead energy, a loser who can't debate, and many -- this is how Bloomberg responded.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAEL BLOOMBERG (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Somebody said, you know, that he's taller than me, calls me "little Mike," and the answer is, Donald, where I come from, we measure your height from your neck up.
(LAUGHTER)
BLOOMBERG: I am not afraid of Donald Trump. Donald Trump is afraid of us and that's why he keeps tweeting all the time. He sees our poll numbers, and I think it's fair to say he is scared because he knows I have the record and the resources to defeat him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: What do you think? Trump knows. Probably that's true.
SCHWARTZ: Yeah. I also think that, you know, Bloomberg, I think, is about 5'8". So, by that standard, Bloomberg's response should be, yeah, Donald, you're about my height because, you know, I assume Donald Trump has lost some height. He's also 113 pounds heavier than Mike Bloomberg, morbidly obese. I mean, this level of dialogue back and forth is just one more measure of how crazy this has gotten. And having said that, for Bloomberg to be cheeky and willing to say anything, it's great, like, we need that.
(LAUGHTER)
SCHWARTZ: Let's not stand on ceremony.
LEMON: I was going to -- OK, great, I'm glad you said that. But can we handle this anymore? I mean, because this is going -- you know, Hillary Clinton pulled back. You know, she went after him a little bit but not as much as this, right? Bloomberg seems to say, I don't really care, go for it. He's not going high when he goes low. He's going to meet him where he is.
SCHWARTZ: Well, he's what, 77, 78 years old. At that age and I'm getting toward that myself, legacy is on his mind. This, I would assume, is what he considers to be, no matter what other people say, his chance to truly cap his career and make a difference. I think the defeating of Donald Trump is genuinely more important to him than being the president.
LEMON: Yeah.
SCHWARTZ: You know this is a guy who's gotten everything that he's gone after.
LEMON: Yeah. And he said, listen, even if I'm not the nominee, I'm still going to work to defeat the guy. He's going to give a lot of money.
SCHWARTZ: And I believe that.
LEMON: OK. He seems to be doing exactly what he said. But I don't know if you could say they weren't rivals, but they have worked together before. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I have to say, you have been a great mayor. You really have. I mean, this guy is fantastic.
BLOOMBERG: If there's anybody that has changed this city, it is Donald Trump. He really has done an amazing thing and this is another part of it. Donald, thank you for your --
(APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: That was back in 2013, when Trump helped Bloomberg convert this trash dump in the Bronx into a high-end golf course. What's the story? What's the history here?
SCHWARTZ: I think that they have very little relationship and that was the way politicians greet one another when they seem to have a moment of mutual interest.
[23:35:00]
SCHWARTZ: I don't think Bloomberg has any real relationship with -- ever had any real relationship with Trump. I think, you know, Bloomberg has a really big challenge of his own. You know, he's got to -- the notion that he is going to buy this election, even leaves me feeling ambivalent because on the one hand, that's a noble way to spend your money. To save the republic, that's a great way to spend your money. Donald Trump won't spend ten cents of his own money.
LEMON: Yes.
SCHWARTZ: On the other hand, it's a dangerous and worrisome precedent to set, to think that if you do have a billion dollars, if you do have $10 billion or $20 billion or in his case $50 billion, you have pretty much free rein to do whatever you want including get yourself (INAUDIBLE). Listen, I've heard the argument that Tom Steyer has spent a fortune himself and hasn't --
LEMON: Right.
SCHWARTZ: -- got a single delegate. So --
LEMON: But he spent -- but Mike Bloomberg is spending a fortune and you can see it in the polls. It is actually working.
SCHWARTZ: It's working and he has -- you know, Tom Steyer has no background that would suggest he ought to be president whereas Michael Bloomberg was the mayor of the biggest city in the country for 12 years.
LEMON: Yeah. It is always a pleasure. Thank you, Tom.
SCHWARTZ: Thank you very much.
LEMON: Thank you very much. Critics are accusing a group of Trump allies of trying to buy votes in the black community. They are promoting the president's policies while handing out cash prizes at events. We looked into this and we're going to show you what we found.
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[23:40:00]
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LEMON: President Trump's reelection campaign is desperate to pick up support from black voters, but the president's poll numbers with African Americans are terrible. One outside group that supports Trump's reelection is using a controversial tactic to try to get black support. Here's CNN's political correspondent Sara Murray.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Come on down -- SARA MURRAY, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Was it savvy community outreach or political pandering?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm going to dinner with this money.
MURRAY (voice-over): A non-profit founded by President Trump's allies is under fire after doling out cash prizes at a Cleveland event last Christmas.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Four more years of President Trump.
MURRAY (voice-over): While organizers pumped up President Trump.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I am unapologetically a Donald Trump supporter.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: don't see any other party giving us anything.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't care who -- insulting or condescending to bless people with cash money around Christmas time. We're doing it anyway.
(APPLAUSE)
MURRAY (voice-over): At the center of the controversy is a new charity called the "Urban Revitalization Coalition" led by Ohio Pastor Darrell Scott.
DARRELL SCOTT, CEO, URBAN REVITALIZATION COALITION: Cleveland, we're here to bless you tonight.
MURRAY (voice-over): Tax experts contacted by CNN raised red flags, saying the cash events may violate tax laws that bar non-profits from engaging in political campaign activity and could jeopardize the group's tax exempt status. In an interview with CNN, Scott says he's been careful to follow the law. Racial justice groups like the NAACP accused Scott's charity of trying to buy support for Trump in the black community.
DERRICK JOHNSON, PRESIDENT AND CEO, NAACP: It is both worrisome and very disingenuous. You know, we are in a political climate where elections are won by the margins, less than a fraction of a percentage, and people are using many tricks to encourage people to participate or persuade their political point of view.
MURRAY (voice-over): Scott hit back at his critics, telling CNN, I really think that's insulting to black people. They automatically think black people demean themselves so much that they will sell out a vote for $300. Trump has struggled to build support among African American voters and 83 percent of African Americans believe the president is racist, according to a recent poll. And the organizers have touted the group as a link between the White House and urban communities.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: President Donald Trump, the one they say is a racist, is the first president in the history of this country to (INAUDIBLE) for people that have no money to put it into areas where it is needed.
(LAUGHTER)
MURRAY (voice-over): The Trump campaign says the cash giveaway was not affiliated or sanctioned by the president's campaign. But Scott has been a fixture in the Trump camp for years, playing a lead role in the president's diversity program for his 2016 campaign and attending White House meetings.
CNN also found Scott's organization has close ties to one of the main outside groups supporting Trump's reelection, America First Policies. It gave the Urban Revitalization Coalition a $238,000 grant in 2018, that quote, "helped get the organization off the ground," an America First spokeswoman said.
MURRAY: And a White House official, deputy assistant to the president Ja'Ron Smith even attended the Cleveland event, touting Trump's commitment to boosting urban communities.
JA'RON SMITH, DEPUTY ASSISTANT TO THE PRESIDENT: It was a goal from day one from the president to speak on behalf of the forgotten community.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We've got two $300 gifts left.
MURRAY (voice-over): Another planned giveaway slated for Martin Luther King Day at a historically black university in Virginia was cancelled amid backlash from students and alumni. It was set to honor Trump and his son-in-law Jared Kushner with a $30,000 cash giveaway.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have a whole lot of money to give away.
MURRAY (voice-over): Scott said the events helped the community and none of it was an endorsement for Trump. But critics like Cleveland city councilman Blaine Griffin worried that people are being duped into attending pro-Trump events with the promise of cash prizes.
[23:45:00]
BLAINE GRIFFIN, CLEVELAND CITY COUNCILMAN: The first thing that came to my mind is that our community needs genuine, authentic relationships. We don't need a one night stand in Cleveland.
MURRAY (voice-over): Griffin says organizers said they wanted to honor him at the event. After learning more, he instead denounced it as condescending and insulting.
GRIFFIN: When I began to do the math and do two plus two, it just didn't smell right. I thought it was disingenuous.
MURRAY (voice-over): Scott says the criticism isn't stopping him. His group has more cash giveaways scheduled with an even bigger pay-out. A lot of people don't stand up under pressure, he says, but I'm not going to allow people to make me think my good is bad.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Come back in February when we give you $50,000. (APPLAUSE)
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MURRAY: Don, when I spoke to Darrell Scott via phone, he said his group has had all kinds of events. He said they gave away turkeys around Thanksgiving. They gave away toys around Christmas. But it wasn't until they started giving away cash that all of a sudden people took notice and started to get offended by the events. Obviously, that's not deterring them from holding more in the future. Back to you.
LEMON: Thank you, Sara. You saw the story. What do you think? Did they try to buy votes in the black community? David Swerdlick and Keith Boykin weigh in after the break. Wow!
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[23:50:00]
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LEMON: A non-profit organization backing President Trump's reelection, handing out cash at events in Cleveland. Critics are accusing them of trying to buy black votes. Let's discuss. David Swerdlick and Keith Boykin, hello.
DAVID SWERDLICK, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Hey, Don.
LEMON: Keith, you don't have as good a poker face as David. So, I'm going to start with you first.
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KEITH BOYKIN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: No, I don't either.
(LAUGHTER)
LEMON: Sara Murray's reporting. What do you think about this organization led by a Trump ally, Pastor Darrell Scott, essentially giving money and other gifts to help persuade black voters?
BOYKIN: First of all, who ever heard of Darrell Scott before Donald Trump appointed him his black liaison in 2016? Nobody knew anything about him or Pastor Mark Burns or Diamond and Silk who, by the way, were paid $1,200 from the Trump campaign in 2016.
Trump's black outreach in 2016 was not existent. He went to a white suburb of Michigan and there he made his famous appeal, what have you got to lose to black people? How do you go to a white suburb and appeal to black people to try to get black votes? It means he was never serious about it. That's the reason why it didn't work in 2016.
Hillary Clinton got nearly 90 percent of the black vote, 94 percent of the black women's vote. And Donald Trump -- remember this, Don -- Donald Trump four years ago promised that he will get -- I guarantee you, he said, I will get 95 percent of the black vote in 2020 when I run for reelection, 95 percent.
And then we just saw the poll just a minute ago in the previous segment that 83 percent of African Americans think Trump is a racist and 90 percent of African Americans disapprove of his job performance. So clearly he was wildly inaccurate in his prediction.
LEMON: So, David, go on. Trying to buy votes here?
SWERDLICK: Yeah. I mean, look, there is an issue of whether or not this is even an appropriate use of funds for an organization that at least in one report questioned whether they were supposed to be 501C3 corporation, but let's assume for a minute that everything is on the up and up and they're following rules. It's a really low-base way to try --
LEMON: It's embarrassing.
SWERDLICK: -- and win black support. It's embarrassing. In terms of Pastor Darrell Scott, look, there are a few serious black conservatives in the administration. In Sara's piece, she mentioned Ja'Ron Smith who works in the White House. There are serious black conservatives outside of the White House. Pastor Darrell Scott is not a serious black conservative.
LEMON: They we're going to do the next one, Martin Luther King holiday, and then they cancelled that. I mean, oh, my god. OK, go ahead.
BOYKIN: They're not even trying. They're not even trying to make it look like they're being serious. Like I said about the Michigan speech in the white suburb four years ago, this is not outreach designed to reach black people. If they really wanted to reach black people, they'd go to black communities and talk to black leaders.
LEMON: This is designed for suburban women or white women --
BOYKIN: Exactly.
LEMON: -- so they won't feel guilty about voting for him. They will say, well, he's reaching out to the black community.
BOYKIN: Yeah, exactly.
SWERDLICK: Don, I think it's a two-pronged approach. I agree with Keith. Part of this is to reassure, let's say, college educated white women in the suburbs who are on the fence about whether or not they'll go for Trump a second time, that he's not a racist. I also think, though -- this is the thing the Democrats have to watch out for -- that if you look at exit polls, McCain got four percent of the black vote, Romney six percent, Trump eight percent.
If Trump somehow manages to get 10 or 12 percent of the black vote, I'm not predicting, I'm just saying it's not totally outside the realm of possibility. That could really hurt Democrats. Just peeling away those couple of percent in Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin --
LEMON: Something like this -- doesn't this -- when you look at the video, I mean, on the surface, it's just -- it's gross. I mean --
SWERDLICK: It's not that outreach that's going to get it, Don. It's not that outreach. But it's the State of the Union --
LEMON: Got it.
SWERDLICK: The Super Bowl --
LEMON: As we were saying --
SWERDLICK: -- Johnson. They're throwing everything at the wall and trying to make it stick.
LEMON: Yeah. Pastor Scott says his organization -- let me get this in -- is nonpartisan and that the event had not been organized by the Trump campaign. Yet Scott, he's been a top surrogate for Trump since 2016. He's on the show a lot. His organization was given a grant from the main Super PAC supporting Trump's reelection campaign. I just had to say that. What did you want to say? Keith, did you want to add anything?
[23:55:00]
BOYKIN: Yeah, I wanted to say that people know the president's history. They know not only what he did before the Central Park Five and Barack Obama and birtherism. They know what he has done since he has taken office. They know he has spoken critically of black people. He has spoken about black countries and called them "shitholes." He has talked about black legislators repeatedly and called their communities "bad communities."
He has talked about you, Don, and other black members of the media. He has also talked about black athletes like Lebron James and Colin Kaepernick. At the same time when he's attacking black people, he's praising racists. He is praising people --
LEMON: I'm out of time, Keith.
BOYKIN: He's praising Rush Limbaugh and giving him a medal. He is praising Joe Arpaio. He is praising people he shouldn't be praising including Andrew Jackson for god sake.
LEMON: I got to go. Thank you both. Sorry, I'm out of time.
BOYKIN: Thank you, Don.
LEMON: Thank you both. We'll see you next time. Have a good night. Thanks for watching, everyone. Our coverage continues.
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