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Don Lemon Tonight
President Trump Grants Presidential Pardon; Democrats Faces in Nevada; A Warning or Real Threat from A.G. Bill Barr. Aired 11p-12a ET
Aired February 18, 2020 - 23:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[23:00:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DON LEMON, CNN HOST: Hello, everyone. You have been watching CNN's town halls, live from Las Vegas. Bernie Sanders, Pete Buttigieg, Amy Klobuchar, each trying to make their case to voters tonight. Thursday night it is Joe Biden at 8 Eastern followed by Elizabeth Warren.
But in less than 24 hours six Democrats vying to run against the president will hit the debate stage in Vegas with the clock ticking toward the all-important Nevada caucuses and that is on Saturday.
But let's jump right into our expert analysis of what you heard tonight. So here to discuss is CNN political director, Mr. David Chalian and Ron Brownstein, the senior editor at The Atlantic. So good to have you on. Fascinating to watch.
RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes.
LEMON: All of this they got in tonight. David, I'm going to start with you. We heard from Bernie Sanders, Pete Buttigieg, Amy Klobuchar, tell me what stood out to you?
DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Well, one thing that was consistent across all three town halls, Don, was Michael Bloomberg and they all were making the point that they don't feel that somebody should be able to buy their way to the nomination or the presidency.
Now, of course, they're not in a position to do that, although Bernie Sanders raises a ton of money, so it's a critique you may expect to hear, it's one they've been making on the campaign trail but it's one they certainly brought to their town halls.
And the other notable moments I would say, you know, Bernie Sanders saying you've got what you're getting on medical records. He doesn't plan on releasing anything more. And not willing to sort of wear the mantle of front runner in this race. He was a little resistant to that label.
And then in that Buttigieg town hall, Don, that moment where he clearly took on the president over hush money to a porn star, not something you normally hear Pete Buttigieg say on the trail, but clearly, when asked about what Rush Limbaugh said about his being gay, and the president saying he shouldn't apologize for it, Buttigieg came loaded for bear on that.
LEMON: Let's listen to that, David, and then we'll discuss a little bit more. Here it is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PETE BUTTIGIEG (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The idea of the likes of Rush Limbaugh or Donald Trump lecturing anybody on family values.
(APPLAUSE)
BUTTIGIEG: I mean, I'm sorry, but one thing about my marriage is it's never involved me having to send hush money to a porn star after cheating on my spouse.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: I mean, listen, he spoke in very real terms,
CHALIAN: Yes, yes.
LEMON: -- David about this, wasn't judging people who might be new to coming on board with the idea of a gay president.
CHALIAN: Yes. And, listen, this is red meat for his supporters, for the Democratic base in general. He's not afraid of putting anyone off to his candidacy because of this.
And by the way, it is also a message that has some resonance in sort of the suburban independent voter world that helped Democrats win the House, the very voters that may have voted for Donald Trump but have drifted away from him in the presidency, the very argument that Pete Buttigieg makes as to why he can cobble some of that coalition back together for the Democrats.
LEMON: David, it reminds me of something that was going around the internet this weekend that people were sharing, a question someone said how will I explain a gay president kissing his husband to my kids and the answer is, I don't know, Karen, probably the same way you did the p-grabbing. That's for Ron.
CHALIAN: That certainly made the point. Yes.
BROWNSTEIN: OK. Well, look, you know, it's interesting. Those remarks, obviously we're probably in the most memorable single sound bite of the night. They're an extension of what he does in his stump speech.
[23:05:00]
Because, I mean, one of the challenges all the Democrats are facing, part of the audition they're going through is voters are trying to envision them on the stage against Donald Trump if there are debates this fall, which is certainly not guaranteed and, you know, as a 38- year-old mayor of a small city he has that challenge. And one of the things he does in his stump speech, he says look, I can talk to him -- I can talk about family values, you know, in my life. I can talk about military service in my life. And this, I thought, was, you know, a moment in which Democratic voters who are uncertain about someone with his resume going against Trump could very easily picture him being effective in that moment in a debate this fall. Kind of just one other point, Don, real quick to what David is aiming for.
LEMON: Sure, absolutely.
BROWNSTEIN: It's kind of striking -- it's kind of striking that all three focus so much fire on Bloomberg, which understandable, he's moved up a lot. They haven't had a chance to lay a glove on him. He's been playing tennis without Annette, as he'd like to say putting all of his money on television. But the fact is --
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: Let me put the polls up as you're talking about that. OK.
BROWNSTEIN: Yes.
LEMON: Let me read this.
BROWNSTEIN: Right. Right.
LEMON: This is an NBC/Wall Street Journal poll puts him at 27 percent, talking about Sanders, Biden second at 15 percent.
BROWNSTEIN: Right.
LEMON: The Marist poll showing Sanders at 31 percent, and a surging Michael Bloomberg behind him at 19 percent. Go ahead, please, Ron.
BROWNSTEIN: But the point is that Bernie Sanders is the one at 31 in that Marist poll, he crossed 30 in a California poll today. There are several polls out showing him now leading among Latinos nationwide. And I think this gave us a pretty good indication that the other candidates are focused, probably going to be focused more on Bloomberg than on Sanders tomorrow night. It's a continuation of what we're seeing through the whole race.
They have chosen not, most of them, not to truly directly engage with him out of a belief that he's still unlikely to be able to put together a coalition to win. But his numbers are going up. He had a really good day in polling across a lot of polls today, and I think it was just striking that Buttigieg and Klobuchar both, both moderates who have criticized Sanders on other occasions really were so light on that front tonight.
And maybe a preview of what we're going to see tomorrow with Bloomberg more in the line of fire than the guy who's now the clear the national leader on all of these polls.
LEMON: Well, he's getting -- it's always been interesting but it's getting even more interesting. Fascinating to watch tonight and tomorrow probably even more so. Thank you, gentlemen. I really appreciate your analysis.
We have some breaking news tonight that we need to tell you about, it's on the attorney general. A source telling CNN that Bill Barr has considered resigning over the president's interference in the DOJ, mainly he's talking about, they're talking about his tweets.
What sounds like an escalation after his big interview just last week saying that he won't be bullied by this president. So, is he sending another message to the president who today says this?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Yes, I do make his job harder. I do agree with that, I think that's true.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Now, we've got more on that ahead. A lot more on that ahead. But I want to turn to the president's wave of pardons today and commutations.
This president has been on a tear ever since his impeachment victory, which was not even two weeks ago, he's been settling scores, he's been firing his perceived enemies and today dolling out pardons and commuting the sentences of 11 convicted criminals. Including the former Governor of Illinois Rod Blagojevich who was released from prison tonight.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: We have commuted the sentence of Rod Blagojevich. He served eight years in jail. That's a long time. I watched his wife on television. I don't know him very well. I've met him a couple of times. He was on for a short while on "The Apprentice" years ago.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Served eight years as he just said, but he was supposed to serve 14 years, that was his sentence on corruption charges, including attempting to sell the Senate seat left open when, wait for it -- Barack Obama was elected president. Blagojevich caught on tape in a four-letter word filled rant.
(BEGIN VOICE CLIP)
FMR. GOV. ROD BLAGOJEVICH (D), ILLINOIS: I've got this thing, and it's (muted)golden. And I'm just not giving it up for (muted) nothing.
(END VOICE CLIP)
LEMON: Well, that has been one sure fire way to get the president's attention. Mention Barack Obama. He is this president's kryptonite. And this is interesting. Even some of Trump's Fox News allies are not exactly down with commuting Blagojevich's sentence.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) DANA PERINO, CO-HOST, FOX NEWS: That was at the time the definition of the swamp.
JESSE WATTERS, HOST, FOX NEWS: Yes. You try to sell a Senate seat and then got caught.
PERINO: Yes.
WATTERS: I think he probably got his sentence commuted because he was on celebrity apprentice.
GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST, FOX NEWS: Blago was one of the worse kind of swamp, swamp rats.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Well, speaking of Fox, you heard the president say he saw his wife at Fox News -- speaking of Fox, probably where the president got the idea about Blagojevich, from his wife's appearance there, to plead his case. Of course, there's also this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[23:09:59]
TRUMP: But, Rod, you're fired.
BLAGOJEVICH: Thank you.
TRUMP: Thank you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: This is real. Can you believe -- wow. By the way, it was while he was awaiting trial, that was while he was awaiting trial and then there is the cherry on top of the sundae as far as this president is concern, tying the Blagojevich case to James Comey.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: It was a prosecution by the same people Comey, Fitzpatrick, the same group.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: A couple of things here. OK? First, James Comey was deputy attorney general early in the Blagojevich corruption investigation but not when he was arrested or tried. And the former U.S. attorney who prosecuted him, a friend of Comey's, is Patrick Fitzgerald. Not Fitzpatrick.
But there's more. The president also pardoning the former New York City Police Commissioner Bernie Kerik who served three years in federal prison for charges including tax fraud and lying to officials and who not at all coincidentally was commissioner under then Mayor Rudy Giuliani. The former mayor praising the pardon for his friend, and in case anyone was unclear on all this tweeting he himself recommended the pardon. And then there's junk bond king Michael Milken who served 22 months of his 10-year sentence for violating securities laws.
A source telling CNN that pardon is all about the Benjamins, that source saying, quote, "Michael Milken is a billionaire with a lot of rich friends. Jared and the campaign will be knocking on all their doors in the coming months."
Does anybody else think that sounds like what this Latin phrase again that we've heard so much about, all right, the quid pro quo. So much for this president trying to claim that he is a corruption fighter, so much for trying to claim everything he did in Ukraine was about fighting corruption.
He is pardoning infamous people with name value. And with money. A lot of them. People he's heard about from friends or from Fox News. He's pardoned a lot of them. And the fact is he can. He can use his power to pardon any way that he wants to and there are times when commuting someone's sentence is the right thing to do.
There should be a place for mercy, of course. But you've got to wonder, why these pardons and why now? Well, probably no coincidence that he is still at angry that Comey and McCabe aren't being prosecuted. He's still obsessed with the Mueller investigation, even though he got off scot-free.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: You had the impeachment hoax, you had the Mueller hoax, you had the Russia, Russia, Russia nonsense, all are scams.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Russia, Russia, Russia. And he thinks he should be able to do exactly what he wants.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I'm actually, I guess the chief law enforcement officer of the country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: The president thinks he is the chief law enforcement officer in the country. Which he is not. That is not true. That would be the attorney general. Remember him? Bill Barr, who, according to a source, has considered resigning.
A senior Republican congressional official telling CNN that Trump's comments are not what you'd call out of character. Quote, "none of this is surprising." It sure isn't. Not for a president who says this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I am the chosen one.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Not for a president who says this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I alone can fix it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: I alone decide who gets punished and who doesn't. My friends don't. People who could be useful don't. My perceived political enemies do. That's what this is all about. And this, this is just amazing. The president of the United States says the only way he has a voice is through social media.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Social media for me has been very important because it gives me a voice because I don't get that voice in the press, in the media. I don't get that voice so I'm allowed to have a voice.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: He thinks he's not allowed to have a voice. Donald Trump has been all over all kinds of media ever since, as he loves to remind us, he came down the Trump tower escalator on the day he entered the race.
[23:15:03]
He has absolutely no trouble getting his message out. So, in the wake of today's pardons you've got to wonder what is to come. You've got to wonder whether he is saying the quiet part out loud again.
And if you wonder if he's not through yet remember that he's also saying this today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you think Roger Stone deserves any prison time?
TRUMP: You're going to see what happens. Let's see what happens.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: See what happens. So, our breaking news tonight, Bill Barr, the attorney general telling people he's considered resigning over the president's interference with the DOJ. Especially his tweets. But would he really do it? Would he? That's next.
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LEMON: Here's our breaking news. A source telling CNN that the Attorney General Bill Barr has considered resigning over President Trump's interference with the Justice Department, with Justice Department matters, mainly his tweets about cases.
[23:20:01]
So, let's discuss now. CNN White House correspondent Kaitlan Collins is here, on the phone with us the Washington Posts' and Josh Dawsey. Hello to both of you. Kaitlan, let me start with you. So, give us the latest on what you're learning about the Attorney General Bill Barr. What is he saying?
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: So, basically what we were hearing, what was first reported by the Washington Post is that Bill Barr is telling people he is considered resigning if the president doesn't stop getting involved in these ongoing Justice Department matters.
Mainly the president's tweets which you have seen have not subsided since Bill Barr gave that remarkable interview to ABC News where he said he couldn't do his job if the president was tweeting. Though, the president tweeted the next day, he tweeted today about the Roger Stone case as well.
But what, more than anything, Bill Barr seems to be doing by telling people this that he is considering resigning from his job as attorney general is sending a message to the president, trying to communicate to the president something publicly that he has said privately to him which is about how these tweets make his job harder.
Of course, Don, the flip side of this is that people see Bill Barr as someone who is incredibly calculated. They know that he knows essentially what he's doing and that he knew who the president was when he took this job, that he is not likely to stop tweeting.
So what people are confused by, even inside the administration that we've been speaking with tonight, is how this is going to end because essentially what we have learned from the sources we've been speaking with is the tension here is real.
Bill Barr genuinely is frustrated by this. But a lot of it has to do with the fact that the response inside the DOJ, since the president has been tweeting about the Roger Stone case, what is going to go forward.
And of course, the president has said, yes, I agree, my tweets do make his job harder. But, Don, that doesn't mean the president is going to stop tweeting. So, the question is, is Bill Barr actually going to resign over this or is he just telling people this because he essentially wants to be able to save part of his reputation and not seem like he's letting the president interfere.
LEMON: Well, if he wants the president to hear it maybe he should say it on television, or at least on cable news. Right?
But, Josh, let me bring you in, so far -- Barr -- so Barr is talking to people inside, and outside the White House. Is Barr trying to send a message to this president, you think? JOSH DAWSEY, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: That's correct. I mean, Barr has
been trying for months, many, many weeks to tell the president you tweeting about open investigations, you tweeting about the Justice Department is entirely unhelpful to me. And then that was the crescendo in the interview last week, that ABC interview that Kaitlan mentioned that was kind of a remarkable rebuke of the president saying I cannot continue to do my job.
The president has, as Kaitlan said, has continued to tweet about things, has continued to make his public opinions known. And sources close to the president tell us he's not going to stop. So, the question will be, how much of this is Bill Barr willing to take? Is Bill Barr actually serious about this threat or is he trying to get the president to stop and won't back down? I think that's what we're still trying to figure out.
LEMON: Kaitlan, this is Kerri Kupec who is the Barr's spokesperson. Here is what he tweeted. He says "addressing beltway rumors the attorney general has no plans to resign." Isn't that what we typically hear when we see reporting like this? This kind of reporting?
COLLINS: Well, yes. And you don't expect the Justice Department spokesperson to come out and say actually yes, he is resigning. That is something that would come from the attorney general or from other reporting.
So the question is, of course, if he actually is going to resign, if he's just saying this because he hopes it will get the president to stop tweeting, we know, remember when John Kelly was chief of staff, he threatened to resign multiple times over disagreements he had with the president. They were actually pretty successful in the beginning; they became less so at the end.
The other thing, though, of course, is that the tension between the president and Bill Barr is obvious. You saw Mitch McConnell, Lindsey Graham, Kevin McCarthy put out that statement today in support of Bill Barr, it was a really unusual statement, you don't usually see those three Republicans put something out in favor of Bill Barr.
But it also comes as he come under this increasing scrutiny, having over 2,000 former federal prosecutors and Justice Department officials calling on him to resign just yesterday.
So I think it's Bill Barr trying to balance his relationship with the president who he has essentially done everything the president has wanted, don't forget how you initially characterize the Mueller report before we actually got to see what it looked like, but also the fact that he's working inside a Justice Department where you are seeing increasingly these officials who work inside of there being essentially displaced with him.
LEMON: Hey, Josh, before I let you go, just quickly, please because I've got a lot of news to get to, what do you think of her statement, Kerri Kupec's statement.
DAWSEY: I think it's non-denial, denial. I don't think yet (Inaudible) a story or others that (Inaudible) who confirms to us that Barr is definitely told to exist. Whether he goes through with it or not is still unclear as Kaitlan said, but that is certainly a threat he has made in (Inaudible).
LEMON: All right. Thank you, both. I appreciate that.
You know, it seems pretty unlikely that this president will stop interfering in the DOJ. So, should Bill Barr resign? Should he resign? We're going to discuss that.
Plus, that surprise series of high profile and highly controversial pardons, why now? And what does all this tell us about the president's state of mind?
[23:25:03]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: So we have some breaking news tonight on the Attorney General Bill Barr telling people that he's considered resigning over the president's interference with the DOJ. This on a day that the president spent a lot of time rage tweeting about DOJ cases and helping out a who's who of convicted white collar criminals.
Let's discuss now, Max Boot, a columnist for the Washington Post, Michael D'Antonio, the author of "The truth About Trump," and CNN legal analyst Laura Coates, a former federal prosecutor.
Hello, hello, one and all. Laura, you should be here in the studio with us but since you're not I'm going to start with you.
[23:30:06]
LAURA COATES, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Thank you.
[23:30:00]
LEMON: Listen, considering the president's interference in the DOJ's business over the last week, I mean, should the attorney general -- I'm going to ask you flat out -- should he resign?
COATES: Well, he should be very cautious about reputational issues not for himself but about the rest of the Department of Justice. My concern is not for his personal legacy but the legacy of the DOJ.
I'm alumni of the DOJ, I am a former federal prosecutor, and it really pains me to think that there are people who believe that Lady Justice's blindfold is totally off with respect to these
preferential-based treatment cases involving the president's friends.
We already know there are many, many, many misgivings about the criminal justice system. There is the idea of the bail reform initiatives that must take place. There is the idea of people knowing that there is profiling involved. We all know about certain aspects of it. But now to add a second layer to this or maybe even a third layer to all this, if you know the president, if he somehow is an ally of yours, that you are singled out for preferential treatment and the Justice Department has to now carry that into court.
Every time they go in with the judge saying, which recommendation is it, the one this morning or should I wait for a tweet, that's the problem, what needs to happen about how every prosecutor now is resigned to that reputation.
LEMON: Mm-hmm. Max, listen, I want to ask you this because I want to get your view. Has the president conceded that he is making Barr's job more difficult?
MAX BOOT, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST, COLUMNIST FOR THE WASHINGTON POST, SENIOR FELLOW FOR COUNCIL ON FOREIGN RELATIONS: He certainly seemed to be saying that today. He also seemed to be saying he doesn't care. And, you know, it's kind of interesting because, you know, what does Barr actually object to? He doesn't really object to the fact that there -- the legal system is being rigged on Trump's behalf because Bill Barr is the person who is rigging the system on Trump's behalf.
What Barr really objects to is that Donald Trump is putting it out there in the open so everybody can see what's going on. He's coming out from behind the curtain, and he is tweeting it out in full view. And so he is undermining Barr's standing in the Justice Department. And so all Barr really wants is for Trump just to be quiet and to let Barr manipulate the system on his behalf.
Why does Trump want to come out and say these things, which are actually in some ways harmful to his henchmen at the Justice Department? It is because Trump wants everybody to know he is the man with the power. He wants everybody to know that he can punish his enemies and help his friends, that he is the power to do that, and that we are not ruled by the rule of law, we are ruled by the rule of Trump.
He wants everybody to know that he is the strong man in the making and that makes Barr's job harder, but Barr has facilitated that ever since becoming attorney general.
LEMON: What are the chances that, Michael, that he actually resigns?
MICHAEL D'ANTONIO, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: I think slim to none.
LEMON: He's annoyed with the president.
D'ANTONIO: You're right. I think this is Bill Barr saying, I really do have a little manhood, you know. Some of it is left. You know, you don't own me completely, Donald Trump. But, in fact, Donald Trump does own him completely.
The one thing that I would say that the president might consider is that Barr is what you might say in the mafia, the captain of all the captains. He is the person who has served the president well. He's served him best. He has protected him.
And I think in some ways, Trump may need Barr more than Barr needs Trump. But right now, we've got two fellows who I think are playing a game. You know, Barr wants us to think he has some measure of authority and integrity when he doesn't really have integrity. And the president is undermining his authority on a daily basis.
LEMON: A little aside here. My colleague, Olivia Nuzzi, who is on here -- who is on the show is reporting that they're both Geminis. She says -- she sent me their horoscope. She said, if you're expecting an important work e-mail or project approval from your boss, you may have to wait a little longer as Mercury has just gone retrograde in your career sector.
(LAUGHTER)
LEMON: And then it goes on to explain -- it is kind of exciting what is happening. Thank you, Olivia, for sending me that. We needed that moment of levity.
Laura, let us move on to the president's pardons now. The president has the pardon power. We all get that. But typically, the controversial pardons happen on the way out the door, right? President Trump's view is why wait, let's just do it now.
COATES: And why wait? He feels particularly emboldened right now. There's no requirement that you must wait until the very end to avoid a judgment or avoid the scrutiny of the public.
In many ways, he is being (INAUDIBLE) pro bono to say, you know what, I'm doing it right now because guess what, I've just survived an impeachment trial, I survived two and a half years of Mueller report. And the name Teflon Don (ph) still seems to apply to him, too. He's now even more emboldened in this respect.
What's ironic about all this case, of course, is the common thread here. Rod Blagojevich is one example. He believes it was very unfair to have it come down to a phone call about an abuse of power. Does that sound familiar to anybody else that he was treated so unfairly about this very notion?
[23:34:56]
COATES: You have somebody who is a friend of Rudy Giuliani and worked alongside him as a former police commissioner, the idea is a fraud, and lying to members of Congress and the White House administration. None of this seems to bother the president of the United States. Why? It is because he's been accused of each of these things. It's a very big signal.
Of course, there were other people who are commuted today, other people who were not big headliners, people we don't know about, including drug cases and people in marijuana sort of rings. I think he has thrown all these people in there to show some sort of objectivity. In the end, that's the pardons office's job in many respect to be able to have a uniform way to address each of these particular acts (INAUDIBLE) instead on a case by case.
LEMON: I think you can see right through that. I mean, it's so transparent. Max, his whole idea, his whole defense over Ukraine and the people, his apologists, were he is fighting corruption. That just blows this right out of the water. It's a total lie.
BOOT: Of course. I mean, he doesn't care about corruption. We know he was trying to actually eliminate funding for fighting corruption. Now, he's pardoning some of the most corrupt office holders in America. I mean, it is truly stunning, this white collar criminal jailbreak going on right now. It's really been going on since the start of the Trump presidency.
Remember, he pardoned racist Sheriff Joe Arpaio, he pardoned Dinesh D'Souza, and he pardoned Conrad Black. This is entirely outside the normal procedures of the Justice Department or the Office of the Pardon Attorney where there is protocol for getting a pardon.
He doesn't care. He's basically using his power to reward his supporters and friends. He's showing that he is not going to be bound by the rules.
LEMON: Yeah. And for the people on social media who send us things that are saying, why is it always about race? When we say white collar, it's not --
(LAUGHTER)
LEMON: We're living in those times, right?
(LAUGHTER)
COATES: Oh, my god.
D'ANTONIO: But these high-profile guys, what do they have in common? They're very rich, they're very white, and they're about the president's age.
LEMON: I know.
D'ANTONIO: These are people he relates to.
LEMON: That's not what white collar means.
D'ANTONIO: I know.
(LAUGHTER)
LEMON: Thank you. Thank you all.
(LAUGHTER)
LEMON: With voters in Nevada and South Carolina going to the polls in days, everyone is talking about who the black and brown voters will support, but the question isn't as simple as that. We're going to break down the role of voters of color. That's next. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[23:40:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: And now to the state of the race. This weekend, we're going to hear from a lot more voters of color. Well, early voting is underway for the Nevada caucuses on Saturday. And a new poll, national poll, shows former Vice President Joe Biden with a three-point lead over Senator Bernie Sanders among black voters. Will those numbers hold up when the votes are counted though?
Let's discuss. SiriusXM host Clay Cane is here, and Karen Finney, former senior adviser and spokeswoman for "Hillary for America." It is so good to have both of you on. I sound like a radio host because --
(LAUGHTER)
LEMON: -- because Clay is here. Listen, Karen, Biden's support among black voters plummeted in one recent poll, down 22 points from January to February. That is according to Quinnipiac. He is not in a position to be losing very many of those votes, is he?
KAREN FINNEY, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: No, he's not, particularly since his campaign has made it clear that South Carolina is kind of their firewall, thanks to, you know, black voters.
But I think there's something else going on here, and we're going to hear more about it tomorrow night or hear more of it tomorrow night, and that is Mike Bloomberg's record is actually starting to really be vetted and examined in a way that pushes past the beautiful television ads that he has out there that we can't miss if we tried.
So I think that is going to mean he's going to be held a little bit more accountable. I think you're going to hear also Amy Klobuchar be held accountable for her record as a prosecutor. And obviously, Pete Buttigieg continues to deal with these questions as well.
So, you know, to some degree, black voters felt like they know who Joe Biden is. They know what they're getting with him. The others still have to make their case.
LEMON: I think the people are still holding on. This is again my, you know, unscientific survey, they're still holding on but they don't think the energy is with Joe Biden anymore, and they're looking to these next few contests to see that.
If not, I'm wondering, you know, can they -- is that going to move over to Bloomberg? And Karen, having said that, is there a generational divide that could split black voters among different candidates here?
FINNEY: Sure. We saw that in 2016. Senator Sanders really resonated with younger African American voters in South Carolina and actually also Latinos in Nevada.
LEMON: Yeah.
FINNEY: And I think we'll see a similar split potentially in South Carolina, you know, again, older voters, people who know Joe Biden, feel like they know his record. I think we'll see those voters turn out and they tend to be the voters frankly that turn out in primaries.
LEMON: OK.
FINNEY: And then I think it's going to be potentially a mix.
LEMON: All right. Clay, so former New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg support among black voters jumped from seven percent to 22 percent in that Quinnipiac poll despite these issues he has with stop- and-frisk and redlining, the comments he has made about redlining and loans.
Why do black voters have -- why do you think they have been so willing to give him a look? I think I know the answer to this. They think he can beat Trump.
CLAY CANE, SIRIUSXM HOST: It's an idea they can beat Trump. And also, a lot of black voters outside of New York, they don't know Bloomberg, right? So I think when we see this debate tomorrow, we're really going to get to know Bloomberg in a different way. Any New Yorker knows when they saw him running for mayor that he's not the best at debates.
[23:45:01]
CANER: And also, I think Bloomberg is going to have to realize that black voters aren't for sale. The black electorate isn't for sale. So it is not going to be enough to have a bunch of campaign ads with President Barack Obama, you and him shaking hands in 2016, right?
I want to see if Bloomberg can go to black neighborhoods, can go to a black barbershop, can sit down with black journalist, with black media outlets and really be held accountable. So we haven't seen him do that. So I think once the shiny sparkle, you know, wears off Bloomberg, we're going to see something else.
LEMON: Listen, I think you have a point there, but when you look at it, I mean, this is just ads. Everyone I've talked to said he is probably the best conceptual candidate --
CANE: Right.
LEMON: -- for president that they have ever seen because he hasn't been on a ballot, he hasn't been on a debate stage, he will be tomorrow, and yet his numbers are -- he's surging in most every -- in most categories.
CANE: But, you know, it's funny. I'm on the radio five days a week, two hours a day. I'm speaking to black voters, black folks all the time. I'm not hearing the surging. I'm not hearing it. So the polls, I've never been polled, I don't know if somebody else has been polled, I don't know, but I really think that people have to get to know him in a serious way. I'm telling you, you can't buy the black vote. I'm a billionaire and let's not forget --
LEMON: You're a billionaire?
CANE: No, I wish I was.
(LAUGHTER)
CANE: I wish I was. They still wouldn't vote for me.
LEMON: Hey, Clay, how you doing?
CANE: I'd share it with you.
(LAUGHTER)
LEMON: Listen, you're right about the polls, but I've got to tell you, Karen, you and I have talked about this before, I've got to get to the break. I remember during the campaign for Trump in 2016, when people would come up to me, they'd look around and they'd say, you know, Trump, I saw you do an interview and I like him.
I am hearing the same thing about Bloomberg. That could all change tomorrow night because you said he's not a good debater, in your estimation. Karen, I think you believe the same thing. So a lot of this can depend on his performance on the debate stage. And as you said, can he go out and meet and greet African American voters and win them over?
CANE: I can't see him in a black barbershop.
FINNEY: Tell us what he's going to do as president. Is he going to end stop-and-frisk as we know it? That's what I'd like to hear him say.
LEMON: Or what he's going to make up for stop-and-frisk, right? For the wrongs --
FINNEY: He could do both.
LEMON: Yeah. Thank you, both. I appreciate it. We hear a lot about black and brown voters, but let's take a deeper look at it. Nearly a third of Nevadans are Latino. Which Democratic candidates polling best with voters there? Could President Trump gain more support than any of them?
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[23:50:00]
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LEMON: We are four days -- count them -- four days away from the Nevada caucuses in the first state in the race with a significant Latino population. Let's discuss with Kristian Ramos, a former spokesman for the Congressional Hispanic Caucus, and Albert Morales, a senior political director of Latino Decisions. I'm so glad to have both of you on. So let's talk, gentlemen. Albert, you first. Latinos make up 29 percent of the Nevada population, 20 percent of the state's registered voters. Who do you expect the Latino population there will support? I know it sounded monolith, but overall, who do you think it is?
ALBERT MORALES, SENIOR POLITICAL DIRECTOR, LATINO DECISIONS: I think the money is on Bernie and for obvious reasons. He's been there the longest. He has got a stellar operation. He brought on Chuck Rocha early on the campaign. They have been at it for five years. This isn't their first rodeo in Nevada so they know a lot of the local activists and leadership in the community. I would give him the edge tonight. We will see how they perform tomorrow night in the debate.
LEMON: All right.
MORALES: Not only Bernie, but also Vice President Biden has a lot riding on this. Don't count on Bloomberg. I mean, he is not even on the ballot, but he's polling at 6 percent. So that's nothing to sneeze at.
LEMON: All right. Kristian, you're smiling from ear-to-ear.
(LAUGHTER)
LEMON: What's going on?
KRISTIAN RAMOS, FORMER SPOKESMAN, CONGRESSIONAL HISPANIC CAUCUS: That was a hot take, Bloomberg coming in there. So, look, I agree with Albert that Bernie is in the poll position right now. This is his to lose. He's invested quite a bit of money in the Latino population there.
It's interesting, though. We are seeing conflicting polling on this right now. You had the Telemundo poll coming out today that actually had Biden in first. They are in a virtual tie when you're looking at it in terms of the difference margin of error there. But then if you're looking over at the Latino Decisions poll, you actually have Bernie up by a significant number.
LEMON: Yeah.
RAMOS: It will be very interesting to see who is able to put it all together and win this thing tomorrow.
LEMON: Let me ask you about this, Kristian, because you warn that despite Trump's xenophobic comments and his administration's inhumane treatment of immigrants in detention camps, you said that Latino support for Trump is very real and could hurt the Democratic candidates.
In the 2016 exit polls, 28 percent of Latino voters supported Trump. According to a recent PEW Research, 30 percent of Latino voters approved the job Trump has done as president thus far. How can he be getting that much support from a group he is trying to keep from entering the country?
RAMOS: So this is a two-part answer here. Number one, let's start with the Democrats.
LEMON: Save some time, though, for Albert. Go on.
RAMOS: Of course.
(LAUGHTER)
RAMOS: Democrats are underperforming right now with the generic Democrat only getting 65 percent of the Latino vote. In order to win the White House, we need around 70 percent.
LEMON: Mm-hmm.
RAMOS: We are not talking about the economy. We are not talking about health care. We are not talking about things these voters actually really care about. On the other side of it, you have Donald Trump. All he talks about is the economy. All he talks about is the benefits of the economy.
[23:55:02]
RAMOS: Did he do any of those things? No. He's benefitting from Barack Obama's economy. He talks about it excessively.
LEMON: OK.
RAMOS: The other piece here -- go right ahead.
LEMON: Sorry. But I want to get Albert in, because Albert, you don't agree to the 30 percent figure, right?
MORALES: No. I'm not ready to hit the panic button here like my good friend Kristian. Bottom line is 30 percent approval rating doesn't necessarily translate to votes on Election Day. A few things remain constant. If you ask Latino voters today whether they plan on participating on in their presidential primary, some north of 70 percent will say that they do. That number is usually around 50 percent for the presidential primary.
LEMON: Mm-hmm.
MORALES: And let's look at previous presidential campaigns. We usually see an uptick in support for the Democratic nominee once he or she is established.
LEMON: OK.
MORALES: Once we have a nominee, I think you're going to see that number come down significantly.
LEMON: I enjoyed this conversation. We will make more time for you, guys, to come back. Kristian and Albert, thank you so much. I appreciate it. Good luck. Good luck.
All right, here is our breaking news tonight. Attorney General Bill Barr says he has considered resigning over the president's interference in the DOJ. So, what will he do when the president keeps on tweeting?
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