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Don Lemon Tonight

Italy Under Lockdown; President Trump Expresses Concerns Over COVID-19 Effects; Coronavirus Threat Causes Stocks To Nosedive; Coronavirus Affecting The Economy Around The World; Coronavirus Will Test The Trump Administration's Ability To Handle A Crisis; U.S. Coronavirus Cases Rise Sharply To At Least 728. Aired 11p-12a ET

Aired March 09, 2020 - 23:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[23:00:00]

DON LEMON, CNN HOST: This is CNN TONIGHT. I'm Don Lemon.

We have a busy hour coming up. And here are tonight's big headlines.

Coronavirus spreading around the world and across the United States. There are now at least 723 cases in the U.S. and that tally is rising sharply by the day.

A nationwide shut down in Italy as the country tries to get the coronavirus outbreak under control. More than 9,000 people in Italy have contracted the virus and some 463 have died.

Wall Street is completely rattled by the worldwide spread of the outbreak. The Dow Jones losing more than 2,000 points today. It's the worst one-day point drop since the financial crisis in 2008. What can Americans expect to happen as the coronavirus gets worse? Well, we're going to hear from one expert what he is warning.

And is the Trump administration doing enough to battle the outbreak? The president announcing tonight that he is concerned about the virus' impact on the economy and is ready to take action.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We are going to be asking tomorrow, we're seeing the Senate. We're going to be meeting with the House Republicans. Mitch McConnell and everybody. And discussing a possible payroll tax cut or relief, a substantial relief. Very substantial relief. That's a big -- that's a big number.

We're also going to be talking about hourly wage earners getting help. So, they can be in a position where they're not going to miss a paycheck.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

Let's discuss now with CNN National Correspondent, Erica Hill, also Dr. Stephen Morse, professor of epidemiology at Columbia University, and New York Times columnist Frank Bruni.

Good evening to one and all. Thank you so much for joining me.

Frank Bruni, I'm going to start with you. You just heard President Trump's comments. What do you think of his message today?

FRANK BRUNI, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: I keep on hearing him talk about the economy and the stock market and the stock market and the economy. And I'm waiting for him to talk about public health. I'm waiting for him to talk about science.

I mean, everything he has said leads us to believe that he's in a kind of denial about the scope of this and about where it's going. And I think until he starts leveling with us and telling us the truth about what this could like and how it will affect Americans and the inconveniences that we'll have to get used to and some of the changes in our behavior in our habits that we have to commit to.

Until he does that, he's not taking it seriously. He's treating it as a political problem. He's treating it as an economic problem an inconvenient one.

I mean, this morning we saw the spectacle of the president start tweeting madly and desperately and sort of pitifully as the stock market is about to open saying this is all a hoax.

This is, I mean, I don't think -- I don't know if he used the word hoax this morning, but this is Democrats exaggerating it. This is the fake news. You can't guide the nation through a public health crisis if you won't admit that it's going on.

LEMON: I thought it was interesting, can you drill down on that a little bit more? Because as I watch it tonight, I thought it was interesting that he was there at the beginning of this briefing. And then just left and he only talked about the economy and not really the human part of it. What kind of message does that send? Talk about that a little bit more.

BRUNI: Well, I mean, I think it sends a message that we always get from Trump, that he is concerned solely about himself and not about the American public. We -- I mean, it's funny, Don, we keep talking about -- or not necessarily us. But I hear on hearing people talk about the political peril of this for him. How this is a threat to his reelection, a threat to his presidency.

I actually think this is great opportunity, if you'll forgive the word. If he shows some leadership, if he actually guides us through this in a way that when we look back, we say the damage was minimize as much as possible, Donald Trump will have done himself and the country and the process enormous good.

But I don't think he can do that right now because it requires a commitment to the truth, it requires a commitment to science. And it requires thinking about everybody else and not just your numbers and your optics.

[23:04:59] LEMON: Yes. So, Dr. Morse, let's talk about what they did do. OK? The administration released tips on keeping people safe amid this outbreak. What's the -- it's very important if they do that. It's helpful but is that any substitute for the appropriate testing and other measures?

STEPHEN MORSE, PROFESSOR OF EPIDEMIOLOGY, COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY: No. I think there's an enormous testing gap. And I think we really won't know how many people are infected until we're able to test more regularly. And so many of the cases we talk about are the sick people. But there are probably 10 times as many who are infected but not showing any signs of disease. Or showing very mild signs of disease.

And so, until the infection hits someone who is vulnerable, and older person like myself for example. We don't know. It's out there. So, if we were to get any handle on where it is and how much of it there is we really need to be doing appropriate testing.

LEMON: Well, that was one of the frustrating things for me this weekend as I watched the news and the conferences -- the news conferences and the news interviews. Reports they were saying, well, you know, they were giving numbers and saying well, the numbers are fairly low compared to others. But we don't know because that -- because there's not enough testing going on right now.

MORSE: Yes, and arguably, you know, the numbers that we see of cases probably represents maybe 10 or 15 percent of the total number of infections based on data from China where that's what they were finding. So, we're really seeing the tip of the iceberg. And if we want to know how to stop it, we have to know where it is.

LEMON: Erica Hill, multiple members of Congress including those who were close to the president including the president's new chief of staff now in self-quarantine after being exposed to the virus at the CPAC conference. What can you tell us about that?

ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR & CORRESPONDENT: So, what we know is there are five Republicans who have said well, I am voluntarily now self- quarantining or self-isolating. And they all had contact with this one person at CPAC.

Now that contact ranged from it was a handshake. You know, I didn't have a lot of interaction to an extended period of time. That's Paul Gosar from Arizona who said he spend an extended period of time with this person. Though none of them have said that they're showing symptoms.

But the other thing that's important to point out is not just that they had interactions with this person but that they also some of them had interactions, as you pointed out, with the president.

So, we saw Doug Collins who shook hands with the president at the CDC of course last week is one these lawmakers. In addition to Matt Gaetz who was on Air Force One with the president today. And he, of course also put that gas mask on last week on the House floor. And was then, you know, people came to him and said, are you making light of this. And he said no, not at all. I was doing that because I'm totally serious here we face serious threats as members of Congress because of travel and selfies and handshakes, and so I put that on to show you.

LEMON: He was also riding in the presidential limo with the beast with the president as well. Could the president, Dr. Morse, have been infected with that sort of contact?

MORSE: Anyone could be infected. Basically, this spreads a lot like the flu. So probably the primary infection method would be someone coming in contact face to face with droplets from an infected person when someone coughs, sneezes, or perhaps talk too loudly.

But there are occasional probable possibilities. Probably cases where someone could pick it up from a handshake or from a surface that's contaminated.

LEMON: Or even a close talker? Because some of the people were close talkers. If you look at some of the photographs there.

MORSE: Yes.

LEMON: There were -- there were a lot of close talking going on.

MORSE: It's possible.

LEMON: Yes, I know. I'm being serious. Manu Raju asked the House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, Frank, about the president's contact with people exposed to the virus. Take a listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Should the president be tested he had contact with Congressman Collins and Congressman Gaetz. Should the president be tested?

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D), UNITED STATES SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: Tested for what?

RAJU: For coronavirus. Do you think he should be?

PELOSI: Yes. I think -- I thought he should be tested for a long time now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BRUNI: I don't think she was talking about the coronavirus.

LEMON: Was that appropriate answer?

BRUNI: I wish she hadn't said that because this is a really serious juncture. So, I don't -- I don't think it was good that the speaker made light of it, no.

LEMON: Dr. Morse, the White House says the president hasn't been tested. They told us just a short time -- just as we were going on the air tonight, for the coronavirus. Should he be? MORSE: I'm surprised actually that he hasn't because he does worry

about these things. But I think we're in the same category, as older men we have over 60 and so we have the greatest risk of actually getting a more serious infection which you would call a case.

So, he may very well find out without being tested if anything should happen. I hope not. But that's how we have been following these.

LEMON: Listen, Erica, we have been talking about Gaetz, Collins and Meadows. You've been reporting on this. People who are always in line with Trump. What does it say when it comes to health that they are not echoing the president and instead, they're taking responsible measures at this point?

[23:10:00]

HILL: It is interesting to see that they are taking these responsible measures, and saying, look, I am going to stay home for 14 days.

LEMON: Yes.

HILL: And I'm doing this all just out of caution. But you raise a very good point. It's what, Frank, you brought up as well, is the messaging is not the same from the president. It's about the economy, it's about your stocks, it's about your payroll taxes. It's not about your health.

And there has been seemingly from the beginning by the president an effort to really down play this. Whether it be in the numbers or we've got this contained. Almost a fear of these numbers growing which doesn't mean that it's, correct me if I'm wrong, it doesn't mean that it's more serious. It simply means we're doing more testing so we have a better sense of what's going on.

So, it is an interesting juxtaposition to see on this one point anyway a little bit of a difference.

LEMON: And as you look at where Italy was 11 days ago and then.

HILL: Look at where we are tonight.

LEMON: Look where we are tonight. Yes. The one thing that we may have in our favor is warmer weather. May. We don't know. We'll have to see.

Thank you all.

BRUNI: Thank you.

LEMON: I appreciate it.

All of Italy is on lockdown. Tonight, 60 million people quarantined. And CNN is there live. Our ben Wedeman has the latest. That's next.

[23:15:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) LEMON: The corona pandemic is so severe in Italy the country is in lockdown tonight on orders of the prime minister. More than 9,000 people in Italy have been stricken with the virus. Some 463 have died.

I want to bring in now CNN Senior International Correspondent, Ben Wedeman who is in Bologna, Italy tonight.

Ben, so good to see you. Thank you so much. What is it like in Italy right now with the whole country essentially shut down?

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's gotten very real in the last 48 hours, Don. Forty-eight hours ago, the only part of Italy that was a red zone was an area of about 11 towns with the population of 50,000. Now it's the entire country with a population of 60 million.

Initially, when we got here two weeks ago, we found that many people particularly the young were sort of thinking of it as a problem over there in a small part of the country. Now it's everywhere. Sort of the information we're getting is increasingly worried.

We were in touch, for instance, with the director of intensive care services in the Lombardi region where Milan is. A population of 10 million. He said that the public health system in that region, that the system there is actually the best in the all of Italy and the Italian public health system is one of the best in the world.

He said it is steps away from collapse. That they are receiving what he called a tsunami of patients. That the intensive care units are so overloaded they are trying to move some of that care into the corridors of hospitals.

So, this is a problem that is really staring people in the face. And I think that initial sort of easy-going attitude towards this crisis is starting to evaporate as reality hits. Don?

LEMON: I can't imagine. Ben Wedeman, thank you so much. I appreciate it. I want to bring in now Fareed Zakaria.

Fareed, thank you. You just heard Ben in Italy. Lockdown. This could happen in other countries too.

FAREED ZAKARIA, CNN HOST: It could certainly happen in other countries. Look, it's pretty clear we are facing a global pandemic. Whether or not the WHO formally calls it that. You have a situation just to remind people something like SARS had 8,000 cases. We're already at 100,000 cases. And it's causing enormous amount of fear and uncertainty.

We saw the stock market. But the more telling indicator of an economy is often the bond market. What does the government have to pay on interest to get people to loan it money? That interest rate is now in the United States to 10-year treasuries under 1 percent.

LEMON: Right. ZAKARIA: In Germany it's negative. You have to pay the government

money to let them keep, you know, take your money. Well, that -- those are indications that people think we are heading for a recession. Without any question.

At least if you read the bond market that is the -- and I can't help but wonder where some of this is the kind of the realization that the United States is not leading in this global crisis. It is flailing around.

The United States has had time to prepare for this. Because of the extraordinary things that China did. China essentially shut down a country of 1.4 billion people. Seven hundred million people are on lockdown for six weeks. And that gave us all time to figure out what was going on. But the Trump administration didn't take that time.

And you can see it most clearly in the lack of testing that you were referring to. So, let me give you the contrast between South Korea, a country that has been really aggressive about this and the United States.

South Korea has done almost 200,000 tests. South Korea is a country of 50 million people. You have to multiply by seven to understand what that means in America. So that would be like 1.4 million tests in America.

Do you know how many we have done so far? Three thousand. So, we are way behind the ball. We are not leading the world, we're flailing around. And as a result, I think it keeps the world on edge because that is not the role the United States normally plays.

LEMON: But if you look, let's take China, for example. An authoritarian country. They can command their citizens in a way that America can't, though. Does that -- how does that --

(CROSSTALK)

ZAKARIA: Correct. There's no question. Almost nobody can do what China did. But my point is that bought everyone else time.

LEMON: Right.

ZAKARIA: South Korea is a democracy. What they have -- the key here is actually not travel bans, not draconian dictatorial measures. It's testing.

LEMON: It's testing.

ZAKARIA: It's public health responses. So, for example, what do the South Koreans do? They said we are committing immediately to nationwide free testing.

LEMON: And drive -- they had drive-thru testing which we have a video.

(CROSSTALK)

[23:19:59]

ZAKARIA: They had in one city they have a drive-thru test. But the main point is they just made it really easy. Really fast. Cheap. Nobody had to ask any questions. None of that is true in the United States.

LEMON: Why didn't we do that? Because we knew about this. This -- and correct me if I'm wrong. Is it 19 because it was 2019, I think the COVID-19 --

(CROSSTALK)

ZAKARIA: Yes. So co is corona, vi is virus, d is disease --

LEMON: Nineteen.

ZAKARIA: -- and 19 is the year.

LEMON: So everyone thinks that this just happened here in the United States. It didn't. I was trying to explain to people this weekend.

ZAKARIA: Exactly. Fall of '19 --

LEMON: That it happened in the fall or the winter -- excuse me -- of '19. And that we really found out about it in December of 2019. China -- China came clean --

ZAKARIA: Right.

LEMON: -- in December of '19. So, we got advanced notice of it.

ZAKARIA: We had about six weeks here.

LEMON: Six weeks to figure it out and we didn't figure it out here.

ZAKARIA: Well, and even now, we are still not at the place where we are testing remotely as much as -- because the key here is in order to understand what is happening, you need to understand the nature of the problem. The scale of the problem. Isolate the people who need help.

You can't do any of that if you're not testing. That's the -- you know, if you look at Singapore, another country that's done a great job. The Italians have tested way more per capita than we have, you know. I think roughly 10 times as much as we have.

The United States is really at the bottom of the list. The United Kingdom is testing more. Japan is testing more per capita. And you can't figure out, certainly didn't help that the guy in the White House who was meant to coordinate all this was fired and that office eliminated two years ago by President Trump.

LEMON: Right. So, OK. So, a couple of things here. So, once you know if you have the testing, you have an idea on how -- where it is, how it spread, where it spread. Right? And then what to do about it. If you don't have those numbers you basically, you don't know. You don't know if it's over here. You don't know if it's over there. ZAKARIA: Right. So, the Singaporeans after they test you and if you test positive, they make you -- they subject you to a time line.

LEMON: Right.

ZAKARIA: Where they ask where were you over the last three weeks. They look at your digital signature. Every ATM you went to, every restaurant you went to. And they try to track where are the likely places. This is now -- where is the next cluster going to be. That's the kind of --

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: They can get a handle on it.

ZAKARIA: Right. Because that's what testing does. Without testing you're operating with ignorance. With our numbers, the United States numbers are frankly non-sense. Because we have no idea of how many people.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: So then that's the whole point of when people say when you try to downplay it, you're not helping at all. You're not helping. And so, that brings me back to the markets.

So, the people who don't really have a political stake in this, which is the markets. Because they know they realize this is B.S. and so they're becoming jittery. They become jittery.

ZAKARIA: Exactly. And because they can -- they cannot trust anything that's coming out of the administration. They cannot trust the numbers, they cannot trust, you know -- when you hear the president saying there's going to be a vaccine soon. Which is again --

LEMON: Eighteen months.

ZAKARIA: You know, exactly. And it's for a very good reason. Even if everything goes right you get one, you then have to test it. You have to make sure it doesn't have adverse effects; it doesn't give people other kinds of problems or disease.

And so, you go through that whole process. And I think what is happening here as I say is the whole world is looking at the United States which used to be the place where you have the best practices, the cutting edge. And the United States would take a leadership role.

Our attitude, the United States' attitude this time around has been we just want to protect ourselves. We want to make sure, you know -- you know, you can't hear enough Republicans on Fox News is all -- came out of China. They eat raw bats, you know, all this kind of nonsense.

Instead of us trying to understand -- you can't just -- the fortress of America or strategy won't work. We're too interconnected.

(CROSSTALK) LEMON: America is --

ZAKARIA: We got to go out and lead and figure out how to, you know, make this a collectively how does the world solves this problem.

LEMON: The world is looking at us saying that where the emperor is not wearing any clothes.

ZAKARIA: Yes, I think so. I think so.

LEMON: Thank you, Fareed. Be sure to watch Fareed Zaria's GPS Sunday at 10 a.m. and 1 p.m. right here on CNN.

Markets plunging with the Dow having its worst day in over a decade. I'm going to talk to the experts next about why and what happens tomorrow.

[23:25:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Here's one of the coronaviruses leading to the biggest point drop in Dow history today. Falling more than 2,000 points. It was the worst day since the 2008 financial crisis and could be a warning sign of things to come.

Joining me now to discuss, Kai Ryssdal, the host and senior editor of the public radio show Marketplace. Kai, welcome.

(CROSSTALK)

KAI RYSSDAL, HOST AND SENIOR EDITOR, PUBLIC RADIO SHOW MARKETPLACE: Good to be here.

LEMON: Don't bring me no bad news, Kai. I can't do it anymore.

(CROSSTALK)

RYSSDAL: Look, you called me. You called me, pal. I got to answer the mail.

LEMON: Man. OK. The market is clearly shaken by this coronavirus.

RYSSDAL: Yes.

LEMON: Earlier today you said that there are a zillion ways this goes bad in a big hurry. A very big hurry.

RYSSDAL: Right.

LEMON: Go on.

RYSSDAL: So, look, this thing is changing right now. Right? What we have had for the past month is what you call a supply shock. And we saw that for the first time really when Apple came out three weeks a month ago and said listen, we can't get enough of our product out of our factories in China to sell. That's a supply shock. They didn't have the supply.

What's happened in the last five, eight days maybe is that it's become a demand shock. As people decide they're staying home, as conferences get cancelled, as people aren't flying, there's no consumer demand, or consumer demand is falling, actually that's what's going on.

And that's really going to be where the next part of this crisis comes from. And so, you've got a supply shock and a demand shock meeting. And that's making the market go, man, what is going on here.

[23:30:03]

Equity stocks are nervous. The bond market, as a couple of your guests have talked about tonight, they are saying -- I don't know what is going on.

People want safety so they're buying government bonds, the safest thing out there. That pushes the yield down, the interest rates down, which is not a sign of good economic growth to come. So yeah, the markets are rattled.

LEMON: OK. So the president -- you know, there was a press conference today. He took part in the beginning.

RYSSDAL: Yeah.

LEMON: He said that he would be proposing financial aid for the tourism industry, specifically to airlines, hotels, and cruises. He will support those specific industries. Would that help, supporting those specific industries?

RYSSDAL: They're getting clobbered, right, for good reason. You have seen the pictures of empty planes. Cruise ships --

LEMON: I was on one today. It wasn't empty but -- and the airport wasn't as full as it usually is --

RYSSDAL: Right, right, exactly. So demand for airline seats (ph) is down, right? That is their product. That demand is down. Cruise ships, we don't really need to talk about because of obvious reasons. So those are the industries that are most likely to benefit from some really specific relief.

But I think what you're going to have to see are two other things going on here. The president is talking about a payroll tax cut which Richard Quest talked about in the last bloc or last hour. That may or may not happen.

But I think that Democrats in Congress are going to demand relief for workers. They are going to want sure that people get paid sick leave so that if they have to miss work because they are caring for someone who is sick or they get sick themselves, they don't miss a rent payment, they don't miss a mortgage payment because that would truly make this a catastrophic incident.

LEMON: So on February 25th, National Economic Council Director Larry Kudlow said --

RYSSDAL: Yeah.

LEMON: -- investors should take a serious look at the market and consider buying at the dip. Since then, the S&P fell -- let's see. The S&P 500, as an example, dropped over 12 percent. I mean, Eric Trump Jr. -- is it Eric or Donald Trump Jr.?

RYSSDAL: No --

LEMON: Eric Trump. Eric Trump. Eric Trump --

RYSSDAL: Yeah.

LEMON: -- also tweeted similar thoughts a couple of days later. Should they stop giving stock advice?

RYSSDAL: Well, look, as the president likes to say, he's free to express his opinion, so too are the people who work for him. But I would caution out there, do not take advice on your investments from politicians or their family members, right?

LEMON: Right.

RYSSDAL: They are motivated by one thing and one thing only and that is --

LEMON: Why is Kudlow giving stock advice? Go on.

RYSSDAL: Well, look, I mean, he was on CNBC forever, right? He has got a degree in --

LEMON: But that's not his job anymore. Come on.

RYSSDAL: No, it's not his job, but it is also not Alex Azar's job to come out on the White House lawn like he did today and say the fundamentals of the economy are fine, right? So I think what you're seeing in this administration is that lines are being skewed. Do not take investing advice from the government.

LEMON: Right. That is a very good point. But I mean, imagine though, I have heard people say, oh, when it first started, oh, it's time to buy, it's time to buy. Imagine if you had bought in now --

RYSSDAL: Right.

LEMON: -- then. You'd be down a lot. Listen, don't take investing advice from me but I'm just saying. I'm not a guy that --

RYSSDAL: Exactly.

LEMON: Listen. There's an idea going around that coronavirus might hit a peak, reseed due to seasonal factors, which lead to possibility of it coming back again later this year or next. How would that impact the economy? RYSSDAL: Well, I think you have to look again at the whole supply

demand thing. I think if this thing comes back let's say in the fall or maybe next spring, I think you're going to see the same thing evolving. The challenge now really is to get out ahead of it.

If it is going to take -- as Dr. Fauci said at the CDC, institute for advanced diseases -- if it is going to take a year to get a vaccine, then I think we need re-planning for this now and see what we can do to exacerbate and take care of things -- mitigate rather, take care of things that might happen. That is where the president's physical stimulus might conceivably come in handy. I don't know.

LEMON: All right. Kai Ryssdal. Kai, that's a good name.

RYSSDAL: Thank you.

LEMON: It is like in a beach blanket bingo movie or something.

RYSSDAL: That's me.

LEMON: Like a surfer movie. Thanks, Kai Ryssdal. I appreciate it.

RYSSDAL: Great advice. Good to talk to you.

LEMON: Thank you. Thanks so much. President who has spin his administration lashing out at government institutions and twisting the truth now needs the public to trust them and him. Former Director of National Intelligence James Clapper weighs in, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:35:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: At a press conference tonight, President Trump tried to reassure Americans that his administration is doing what's necessary to get the coronavirus under control. But do Americans believe that? According to a new CNN-SSRS poll, 48 percent disapprove and 41 percent approve of how the president is handling the outbreak.

Joining me now to discuss is James Clapper, the former director of National Intelligence. Thank you, director. Let me make sure I got that right, 41 percent approve, 48 percent disapprove of how the president is handling the coronavirus outbreak. Director, thank you so much. Appreciate you joining us. So the president's credibility crisis has been building for a long time now. Now, the public needs to believe and trust him. Can they?

JAMES CLAPPER, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, the track record is not that great. You know, as we discussed before, he has sort of an inconsistent relationship with the truth.

[23:39:56]

CLAPPER: This is one time when it's absolutely critical that the administration be credible. It would be so much better to have the experts, medical doctors, and public health officials do the talking. Get the politicians out of the way.

Dr. Fauci, who is known from last administration, is absolutely terrific. He's authoritative but not patronizing. He can explain things in a way that everyone can understand and he sounds credible and convincing. That's what we need right now.

The messaging is kind of all over the map. You know, it is a good idea to get Vice President Pence to try to bring some order and discipline to this.

LEMON: I find them all, even Fauci, honestly, a little defensive lately. I haven't seen -- I don't know what's going on. Maybe they feel that they're all behind the eight ball when it comes to coronavirus. But even -- I have to be honest. I find Fauci a little defensive on this one. Not sure why.

CLAPPER: Well, I think part of that -- I can't explain it. I don't know either. But I think part of it is the fact that both the apparatus and the process is that were built in the last administration were gone away with by this one.

It would have been so much better to have an organization in place, a staff element in place from the National Security Council who could be looking out on the horizon for indications of a potential pandemic exercise. I can't -- I don't know that's an explanation for --

LEMON: Let's dig a little bit more on that because I don't know if that's been discussed enough. Talk to me more about that, director.

CLAPPER: Well, the experience I remember most was the Ebola crisis. At first, I thought now there is going to be a bunch of meetings at the White House that I don't have to go to. But I was wrong. I did learn that intelligence has a big role to play in such events. I trust that it's playing now. From a couple standpoints, one, helping with anticipating where a disease might go and also --

LEMON: There is an official though who is on the National Security Council who was there who is no longer there, right?

CLAPPER: Exactly. That was all dismantled. And, of course, certainly, you know, budgets in Washington are messages or signals. If you read the budget, the latest budget is omitted by the administration. They cut CEC, cut funding for the World Health Organization and other such activities, which I think is indicative of the neglect, frankly, that has been -- this whole endeavor suffered from.

LEMON: Listen, director, there's a phenomenon known as black swan events, significant unpredictable events that have major consequences. Is that what we're seeing here?

CLAPPER: Well, it certainly could be. Obviously, a lot of this will -- we'll know better when we can look back on it. It's certainly could be. And we discuss this before, Don, on the last three years. At some point, you know, the administration to this point has been blessed because it hasn't been challenged by a black swan or some crisis where it didn't really have to depend or so it thought on experts, for example.

Well, now, we have a very different situation. And you can't make your enemy a virus and tweet about it and have it go away. We're in a very different mode here.

LEMON: Yeah. And this isn't a marketing crisis. This is a crisis that requires expertise and you just can't market your way out of it or BS your way out of it and think that you're going to say something that everyone can buy that is not true.

CLAPPER: Or conjure up an enemy --

LEMON: Yeah.

CLAPPER: -- so you can deflect. Well, that's hard to do here. And the enemy, if you want to air quotes is, doesn't respect national borders --

LEMON: Yeah.

CLAPPER: -- or political ideology.

LEMON: Thank you, director. I appreciate your time.

CLAPPER: Thanks, Don.

LEMON: Seattle is the worst hit city in the country so far, and the way the coronavirus is affecting people there, it could tell us a lot about what to expect in the rest of the country.

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[23:45:00]

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LEMON: Tonight, the number of coronavirus in the United States is at least 728. The hardest hit states is Washington State where at least 180 people were stricken. Twenty-two people in that state have died and the pandemic is having a severe impact on Seattle. Here is CNN's Omar Jimenez.

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OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): At the start of the new week, some businesses in Seattle are settling into a new and sobering reality.

GREG LOKI, PIROSHKY PIROSHKY BAKERY MANAGER: On a typical weekend day, there could be thousands of people for sure.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice-over): And now?

LOKI: We're seeing maybe couple hundred.

[23:49:57]

JIMENEZ (voice-over): This bakery, Piroshky Piroshky, says their business is down 50 to 70 percent since the outbreak began, leaving some fearing what comes next.

JON ROBINSON, OWNER, PIKE PLACE PHOTOS: Oh, my god. At night, I say, is it going to get worse? They say, close down the market. Well, I'm shut down.

JIMENEZ (voice-over): City wide, hotel occupancy last week dropped to as low as 30 percent. Normally, hotels would be at 70 percent, according to Visit Seattle. And many restaurants reported a 40 percent drop in business over that same week, according to the Washington Hospitality Association.

Education is taking a hit, as well. More than 80,000 students in the Seattle area are now learning from home, from the university level, all the way down to elementary school. All of this as there had been more than 175 positive coronavirus cases statewide and more than 20 deaths. That's why even handling presidential primary ballots is being treated with caution.

(On camera): Here at King County's election center, the county, by the way, that had seen more deaths due to the coronavirus than anywhere in the country, you will notice something small but significant. Everyone is wearing gloves. It wasn't a requirement in years past. But this year, is different.

(Voice-over): And first responders are now responding to all calls for respiratory issues, fever or cough in full personal, protective equipment suits as dozens have had to be quarantined, many symptomatic, and at least one testing positive for COVID-19.

(On camera): So obviously, these precautions are pretty important.

GABE DEBAY, FIREFIGHTER AND PARAMEDIC, SHORELINE FIRE DEPARTMENT IN KING COUNTY: Yeah, very important. I mean, I have a family. I have kids at home and definitely want to come home safe for them.

JIMENEZ (voice-over): Each day in the Seattle area brings new cases of the coronavirus and with it, uncertainty from merely every aspect of life, and what has gone from just a few cases to an outbreak in just a matter of weeks.

Omar Jimenez, CNN, Seattle.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: Let us bring in CNN's National Security Analyst, Juliette Kayyem, a former assistant secretary for Homeland Security under President Obama.

Juliette, thank you for joining us. Look, empty classrooms, empty parks. We are seeing the impacts of businesses and travel here. Could we see this in other cities affected by coronavirus? JULIETTE KAYYEM, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST, FORMER DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY OFFICIAL, PROFESSOR AT HARVARD'S KENNEDY SCHOOL OF GOVERNMENT: Absolutely. I think we have to expect it at this stage. We are in the new normal right now. It is jarring. I am willing to admit that. But we know that containment cannot work perfectly. We don't even have a sense anymore of who has it.

We are in the mitigation phase. Each locality is going to execute this differently, depending on what they are seeing in their jurisdictions. Seattle had to do it quite aggressively because of what they were seeing. New York City, you are seeing a more gradual sort of social distancing, you know, recommendations to employers and then recommendations about subway use. So you're going to see it played out differently, just the nature of our federal system.

LEMON: You actually think that some of the ways local authorities are trying to stop the spread seems random. Why?

KAYYEM: Well, I think that it appears random from the outside. Part of that is just the basic, sort of inexcusable aspect of where we are now, which is of course we don't have a sense of what the denominator is. We do not know how many people have it. So every mayor is going to assume once they have one, two, three cases, that there is probably community spread.

Once you know there is community spread, you are going to then begin social distancing mitigation measures. Those aren't going to all come at the same time. It may make sense, like in Cambridge here, to focus on universities. That's where lots of people live together and it's very dense. So we are testing out systems here to do stuff remotely as compared to another area where, say, in Austin, may just close a big thing like south by southwest.

So it doesn't look consistent now. I would probably get people prepared. That is going to look more consistent over the next week or two as more cities simply begin to do the same thing, which are the employee recommendations, the school closures, university closures and things like that.

LEMON: It's -- you know, we get the e-mails, right?

KAYYEM: Jarring.

LEMON: It is.

KAYYEM: It is jarring, yeah.

LEMON: It is because we are news organization so we get the e-mails. Every update, every city, two more here, three more here, six more here, one person has died here, two people have died here. It just comes across. It is really ominous, right, because you see the buildup.

KAYYEM: Yeah.

LEMON: You know, I think this morning -- you know, it may be a couple hundred and then it grows by the day.

KAYYEM: Yeah.

LEMON: Here's the thing. You say that the U.S. isn't ready for what is about to happen next.

KAYYEM: Right.

LEMON: And you write and I quote, "The United States is far less prepared than other democratic nations experiencing outbreaks of the novel coronavirus. Even if the U.S. were far more ready for the COVID- 19, the consequences could still be grievous." Why do you say that?

KAYYEM: So, I mean, part of it is just to get people's head around what is about to happen. This is part of the planning. I don't know any better way to say it. Pandemic planning has been known for a long time.

[23:55:00]

KAYYEM: This is a new virus. We get it, but we know what is likely to occur. Vulnerable populations will be more vulnerable. People who do not have employee benefits will be more severely harmed economically. And elderly are likely to be more impacted than nonelderly. That is, unfortunately, as I said in the piece, you know, unfortunately, a crisis hits the nation as it is, not as we want it to be. And so part of --

LEMON: I am out of time, Juliette.

KAYYEM: -- why exactly -- right, so, anyway, more later unfortunately.

(LAUGHTER)

LEMON: Sorry about that. But it is -- you know, it is pretty scary as we sit here and watch it all because it's all condensed for us every day as we get it.

KAYYEM: Right.

LEMON: And it's like, boy, oh boy, where are we headed? Thank you, Juliette. Appreciate it. We'll you soon.

KAYYEM: Talk to you soon, Don.

LEMON: By the way, I need to tell you, guys, there are six more critical primaries tomorrow and CNN's got special live coverage for you, Super Tuesday Round II. Special coverage starts at 4:00 p.m. Eastern only on CNN. Thanks for watching. Our coverage continues.

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