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Don Lemon Tonight

Gov. J.B. Pritzker (D-IL) Is Interviewed About President Trump's Unrealistic Easter Idea; No Vote Yet On Stimulus Package; Public Health Advisers Drafting Options For A Step Back Toward Normalcy For Certain Areas Of United States; White House Public Health Experts Say Anyone Who Recently Left New York Should Self-Quarantine; More Than 52,900 Coronavirus Cases In United States, At Least 704 Deaths. Aired 10-11p ET

Aired March 24, 2020 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[22:00:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST: I know the financial anxiety is real but you can't let fear guide you. We are better when we are together, and if we stay there, we'll get through it.

Thank you for watching. "CNN TONIGHT" with D. Lemon right now.

DON LEMON, CNN HOST: Right on the money at 10 o'clock. Thank you for doing that. You're not -- you're consistent if you're anything. I'm so glad that you are doing some good news because we could -- boy, we could sure it at this time.

Tonight, I'm going to tell you about a tattoo parlor in Alabama giving up their gloves and some of their safety equipment for health care workers who are putting themselves on the front line right about this time.

And then hopefully tomorrow I'm going to tell you, so you know my partner, we're supposed to be fostering dogs because some shelters are emptying up because people want to adopt animals at this time. Others are having trouble because -- in some places -- people don't want to. Right? They are not coming in to adopt and foster.

Supposed to be a foster, now he is putting out on social media new member of the family. So, I guess I have another dog at this point.

CUOMO: No way.

LEMON: Yes, yes, so that's the good news.

CUOMO: Do you have a picture?

LEMON: Check out in Instagram. The story is going to be on tomorrow night. We'll put it -- we'll put it on tomorrow night and I'll show you.

CUOMO: I have to wait with everybody else you aren't going to give me the name?

LEMON: No, I'll tell you. You got to wait.

CUOMO: All right. You got a lot of news. I'm going to watch your show.

LEMON: I do have a lot of news, but I do want to tell you, I just want to tell you we're watching these hot spots and I want to put them up and we're going to tell the viewer why. Let's put them up.

There is, you see there is New Orleans which is part of Louisiana. Because they have the fastest growing rate per capita in the world, Chris. And then you know the city to the right at the top, that is a city, dear city that we live in, part of the state that your brother governs, the governor.

We have, I mean, our -- the number of people here who are infected is just amazing. And then we're watching the Capitol because they are voting and they are trying to get the stimulus package together to get --

CUOMO: Taking too long.

LEMON: -- to get our economy in this order. And then we got the White House and that's where the president is trying to decide if we're going to get the economy back up --

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: The Capitol is taking too long and the White House is cutting this too short.

LEMON: Yes. Why do you say that?

CUOMO: Because the science tells us that the worst is yet to come. I take no satisfaction in that but I know the projections. I see the data and you are going to have the most hospitalizations at the same time that the president wants to ease the restrictions. That is nonsensical.

LEMON: Yes.

CUOMO: Something else is driving that decision. Not reason, not science.

LEMON: Yes. And we have to look to the science, we got to look to the facts, we got to take care of the virus before -- listen, we can do both at the same time. We can look to try and fix the economy, but we got to take care of this virus. And I will see you tomorrow. Make sure you be safe. You take care of yourself.

CUOMO: I love you.

LEMON: You as well.

This is CNN TONIGHT. I'm Don Lemon. Thank you so much for joining us. We got some big news for you. Our breaking news. President Trump says that he wants the nation to open up, get back in business by Easter which is less than three weeks away. But the coronavirus pandemic is surging here in the United States. We have been reporting on it for you for a -- to you for a while now.

Experts and officials warning it will be worse before it gets better.

I want you to take a look at this map tonight. Tonight, there are nearly 53,000 confirmed cases of the virus in the U.S. At least 700 people have died. Seven hundred at least. These victims are our loved ones, they are our neighbors, they are our friends and they are co- workers.

And here is the very stark reality right now. The number of confirmed cases has jumped by more than 10,000 in just 24 hours, since this time last night. I left you at 10 p.m. last night and since this time it has jumped 10,000 cases. Experts say that is due to a major increase in testing, but also that the virus has not peaked and it is still spreading.

One hundred and sixty-three deaths were reported just today, making this is the single deadliest day in the U.S. so far in this outbreak. An official with the World Health Organization warning that America has the potential of being the epicenter of the pandemic.

But here is the president from earlier today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Ultimately, the goal is to ease the guidelines and open things up to very large sections of our country as we near the end of our historic battle with the invisible enemy. I hope we can do this by Easter. I think that would be a great thing for our country and we're all working very hard to make that a reality.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: The president also said that he sees light at the end of the tunnel. And that includes seeing churches packed on Easter Sunday despite guidelines about social distancing.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I think Easter Sunday and you will have packed churches all over our country.

[22:05:01]

I think it would be a beautiful time and it's just about the timeline that I think is right. It gives us more chance to work on what we are doing. And I'm not sure that's going to be the day, but I would love to aim it right at Easter Sunday so we're open for church service and services generally on Easter Sunday. That would be a beautiful thing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Dr. Fauci says there needs to be flexibility in getting the country back up and running. That parts of the nation maybe OK by Easter, but not hard-hit cities like New York. And a warning tonight from Dr. Deborah Birx, the White House public health expert working alongside Dr. Fauci about the severity of the coronavirus in New York City.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DEBORAH BIRX, COORDINATOR, WHITE HOUSE CORONAVIRUS TASK FORCE: To everyone who has left New York over the last few days, because of the rate of the number of cases, you may have been exposed before you left New York. Everybody who was in New York should be self-quarantining for the next 14 days to ensure that the virus doesn't spread to others.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Now I want you take a look at the map of this country. This is the map of the country, OK? These states are seeing spikes in the coronavirus cases. New York has the worst-case load. Remember it's the most deserted city, right, it's the biggest city, with more than 25,000.

New Jersey, I want you see the states, right, but New York City, right. New Jersey has the second highest number of cases with more than 3,600. But cases are also rising in Pennsylvania and Indiana and Michigan. And in Louisiana whose governor by the way told us just last night on this program that his state has the fastest growth rate in the world.

Spikes are also in Georgia and Florida. And while California and Washington State have been hit hard by the outbreak, there's a bit of good news that I want to report to you. The rate of increase in those two states not as high as in states in the red. OK? And I don't say this to be alarmist.

But if your state is not on this map that's up on the screen now, it doesn't mean that it won't be in a week. One week ago, after all, New York had about 1,700 confirmed cases of coronavirus. Today, one week later, more than 25,000.

And even with social distancing in places like New York City, it is a virtual, a virtual standstill. It is expected to increase even further. When coronavirus hits, it hits hard, it spreads fast. And that is the point of social distancing, to prevent that.

So, let's look at the impact of the coronavirus outbreak that it's having on life in major cities all across the country. We showed you a little bit earlier, right, empty streets in New York. But look at this, San Francisco is on the upper left. And going clockwise, New York City is on the upper right, Los Angeles, lower right, Boston, lower left.

You might not recognize what you are seeing in these boxes. Vast stretches of our great cities empty. They are desolate streets. They're deserted. People forced to stay home due to potential for danger. Scenes like these are repeated in cities and towns, large and small, all across America. And for good reason.

President Trump may be pressing for life to return to normal in the United States. But that's likely going to take some time now especially since 55 percent of Americans will be living under at stay- at-home orders by the end of the week.

So, I want to go right away to CNN White House Correspondent, Kaitlan Collins. Kaitlan, good evening to you by the way, standing at the White House right now. So, Kaitlan, I saw you, I was watching you this afternoon you pressed the president on his desire to get the country back up and running, and the economy at least, by Easter. But what's driving that decision, can you tell us?

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well that was our big question, is why Easter and who picked that timeline. Was that the president, was it the medical experts who recommended that that was something. The president made it clear he was the one who made that decision, he had picked that date. It didn't come from any of those doctors on stage there, though he said he had discussed it with them, Don.

But listen to what exactly the president said compared to how Dr. Tony Fauci worded things today about that Easter timeline that the president is now flouting.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I hope we can do this by Easter. I think that would be a great thing for our country.

COLLINS: Who suggested Easter?

TRUMP: I just know it's a beautiful time, it's a beautiful time, a beautiful timeline.

ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: You can look at a date, but you got to be very flexible on a literally day by day, week by week basis. Obviously, no one is going to want to tone down things when you see what's going on in a place like New York City. I mean, that's just, you know, good public health practice and common sense.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[22:10:06]

COLINS: So, you hear Dr. Fauci there giving a little bit more of a sober, you know, judgment of what that Easter deadline could look like.

But, Don, I should just point out quickly that the president is relying on the advice of economic aides too. He brought out his top economic adviser there at the briefing. He is increasing worried about the economy with that, so he's looking like what the impact that these guidelines are having on that. And he also held a call with investors today to talk about the markets as well.

LEMON: Kaitlan, CNN is now reporting that public health advisers are drafting options for a step back towards normalcy. What's that, what are those options?

COLLINS: Yes. They seem to be weighing, you know, ways that they can actually start to get people back into more normal routines back to their normal lives. But they've been cautioning, you know, it's going to take time. It's not going to be something that they want to happen rapidly because public health experts have said if you move Americans back into their normal routines too quickly, it's going to erase the gains that they've already made.

So, that's been the concern there. But they seem to be right now trying to estimate on a rolling basis how they can gradually get people to start going back to their normal lives, and they are taking it to account, you know, whether they are doing that based on age, geography, all of those things are something that are coming into consideration, we're told.

LEMON: Hey, just really quickly because I have to get to Manu. They do realize that if they do this and people get sicker, that it could be worse, actually worse for the country and the economy, right?

COLLINS: And that's the risk here.

LEMON: Yes.

COLLINS: That that's the risk with the president flouting this Easter deadline because you have not heard that from health officials. So, the question is whether or not he changes his mind before this guideline expires next week.

LEMON: Yes. Thank you, Kaitlan. I appreciate that.

Now to Manu Raju on Capitol Hill where this Senate is trying to pass a massive stimulus package, but hasn't been able to get it passed for days now. Good evening to you, sir. Give us the latest on this economic stimulus deal in the works.

MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, although another day of marathon negotiations. These long nights have been going on since this past Friday, it's carried on through the weekend up until tonight. And it's been 10 hours since Chuck Schumer, the Senate Democratic leader said that they are at the two-yard line where they have not advanced the ball far yet.

I asked Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin why they have not been able to advance those final two yards. He says this is a complicated deal. We're getting there. And they do expect to try to get something done tonight.

Now at this moment Mnuchin is in Schumer's office. They are trying to hammer out the final legislative language here. And then he said he is going to meet with Mitch McConnell, the Senate majority leader. So, we'll see if they can close this out.

But this is such a sweeping bill, Don, affecting virtually all aspects of the U.S. economy costing roughly $2 trillion. So, there is a lot that they have to hammer out, the legislative language, to try to make sure that it meets the deal that they have essentially outlined in principle. So, we'll see if they're able to finally hammer this out tonight as a lot of Americans and the economy are all waiting for that -- for Congress to answer this.

LEMON: So, Manu, I know you. You like the details so take us inside this plan, what's potentially in it?

RAJU: Well, we haven't seen all the details of it but we have a good sense from basically some of the past proposals that have come out and from what we are hearing from our sources. Among the bill, basically it will be broken down into several different components.

One, it includes small business loans that are costing about roughly $350 billion. There would $500 billion fund for some of these distressed industries. The bigger companies they would also be able to apply for that. There would be some oversight to that. That had been an issue that they have been fought about, that there will a panel overseeing how that funding that those loans would be directed.

Plus, $250 billion on unemployment benefits, enhanced unemployment benefits for individuals. And an additional $250 billion in direct payments for people who make above under certain income threshold, up to about $1,200 per individual, $2,400 per family with additional money for children who -- for children.

They are talking also about adding a significant funding package as well that could be costing upwards about $200 billion to fund all different aspects of the government.

So, there is a lot that they have to sort out which is why this has been so hard. And they have tried to put this massive proposal, one of the biggest pieces of legislation ever in the history of Congress to get enacted, to get this done in just probably a week's time.

Something that's typically would take months if not years. And they are trying to hammer this out behind closed doors among the small group of people including the leadership and the White House which is why it's been so hard to get over the finish line. But there is still optimism tonight that they could at least get a deal tonight and get it passed in both chambers tomorrow, Don.

LEMON: Yes. I was listening to Larry Kudlow and I was like eye popping when he started mentioning the numbers and just how big they were.

Thank you. Manu Raju on Capitol Hill for us late this evening. I appreciate you. I appreciate Kaitlan as well. Thank you, sir.

[22:15:02]

The president says it is a two-way street when it comes to working with governors and they have to, quote, "treat us well." I'm going to ask Illinois Governor J.B. Pritzker what he thinks about that and the president's Easter timeline. That is next.

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LEMON: President Trump says that he wants the nation opened up and rearing to go by Easter Sunday and he wants to see churches packed. But health experts and some of Trump's Republican allies on Capitol Hill says it is likely too soon with the coronavirus pandemic surging across the country.

I want to bring in now Governor J.B. Pritzker of Illinois. Governor, thank you so much. I appreciate you joining us.

GOV. J.B. PRITZKER (D-IL): Thanks, Don. Great to be here.

LEMON: Listen, the president says that he wants the country rearing to go by Easter, as I said. You know, that is April 12th. If you don't think that's right for your state, what are you going to do?

[22:19:58]

PRITZKER: Well, look, I am going to follow the science. That's what I've been doing. We have some of the greatest medical institutions and research institutions in the world here in Chicago and in Illinois. And so, I've been relying on the epidemiologists and researchers at the University of Chicago and Northwestern University of Illinois, Southern Illinois University.

And the advice that I'm getting is that, now that we have a stay-at- home order in place, and people are actually following it, that we now need to follow through with that and we need to see whether we're actually bending the curve. It looks like we may be seeing the beginning of that, but we are only three or four days in and so we've got to follow this for some time.

People say you really need to go 14 days maybe to see if there is a difference. And so, I must say I think that the president is premature, I think he is probably overly hopeful and not listening to the science.

And if you listen to Dr. Fauci, I think he agrees more with the rest of us than he does maybe with the president.

LEMON: He may be appealing into that, and I don't know if anyone has brought this. So, he maybe appealing to people of faith, maybe Evangelical saying, you know, God has got this and, you know, pray on it and God will take care of it.

PRITZKER: Maybe so, but, look, we, and certainly we all think about and pray. We think about what the impact that this is all having on the lives of people all across our nation. And everybody is, frankly, in a spiritual way.

But I have to say that if you're not listening to and looking at the modeling at what's happened in China and Italy and all across Europe now and trying to figure out what's going to happen in your state and looking forward, then you're really not doing it right. I'm not sure the president is really on top of all of that.

LEMON: Yes. God did create scientists as well. So, listen.

PRITZKER: Indeed, he did.

LEMON: Yes. The president picked the Easter timeline because he says it is a, you know, quote, "beautiful time" when states are still desperately demanding supplies and ventilators. I think you've said this, but he's -- do you think he's being realistic about this timeline?

PRITZKER: All I can tell you is that we see a steady rise in the number of cases here in Illinois. You know, we're number six in the list of states in terms of the number of cases we have. We're number eight in terms of the number of deaths that we've seen. And it does not seem to be substantially abating.

We are doing everything that we can to deal with it. But we see what's happening in New York. We see what's happening in Washington and California and we know that that can happen here. So, we are doing everything that we can. We're building out our hospital capability, we're making sure we are tracking new health care workers into the field, people who maybe retired recently coming back in.

We're looking for PPE all over the world, competing unfortunately, with every state and with other countries, too, when I would like the president to invoke the Defense Production Act to try to keep this market sort of stable so the rest of us can get the equipment that we need.

LEMON: Let me ask, so two things. One, you would like him to invoke it. I know that you have been, you and other governors have been frustrated by the president saying that he would use it. He hasn't done it. Even tonight he is making it clear that he has no intention of using that tool. What is the cost of that kind of reluctance do you think?

PRITZKER: Well, I can just tell you I made calls -- I do every day -- but just day before yesterday I was calling ventilator companies trying to locate and purchase vents wherever I could find them. I spoke to two CEOs and in both cases I was competing either against FEMA for the ventilators that I need in Illinois or I was competing against other states and foreign countries.

And the president has the ability to stop that from happening, for either by the United States government making this purchase and then distributing them across the country or by simply making sure that U.S. manufacturers are selling to U.S. states and not to foreign countries and letting the states buy and maybe having the federal government step out of the way.

Either one, any of those would be better than the situation we have now. Because there is price gouging going on. You know, there is -- I was -- one of the manufacturers who was telling me that well, if you could up your order by some more, we would put you higher in the priority queue for the ventilators that you need. (CROSSTALK)

LEMON: And the attorney general address that yesterday that he would handle that. Before we run out of time, I just want to play this. This is the president from the virtual town hall. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: We are doing very well, I think almost all of the governors. I think we're doing very well. But you know, it's a two-way street. They have to treat us well also. They can't say gee, we should get this, we should get that.

[22:25:01]

We're doing a great job. Like in New York where we're building, as I said, four hospitals, four medical -- we're literally building hospitals and medical centers. And then I hear that, you know, there is a problem with ventilators. Well, we sent them ventilators and they could have had 15,000 or 16,000. All they had to do is order them two years ago but the decided not to do it. They can't blame us for that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Quick answer if you can, I'm going up against the break here. What's your response, governor?

PRITZKER: Well, we were supposed to buy ventilators a couple of years ago knowing there would be a pandemic two years later? I'm not sure that makes any sense.

Here's what I know. Look, they have the ability at the federal government level to acquire what we need and to distribute it. I was very critical of the president publicly. He called me out on Twitter. I responded. And then I called the president and I told him exactly what we need.

I want to give him some credit here. He responded immediately and we, in fact, are going to receive some ventilators --

LEMON: OK.

PRITZKER: -- and some PPE, but -- but it's a fraction frankly of what we need and we've asked for. And that's happening to every governor all across the nation. He should really bring us altogether and make acquisitions that are good for everybody across the United States.

LEMON: And if the president opens up the economy by Easter, will you defy -- what you said you are going to look at the science -- but would you defy a federal roll back or if he does it? Would you defy it? The governor of New Jersey said he would. Would you do the same?

PRITZKER: Well, you say defying a federal roll back. These are state orders. These are executive orders at the state level. What I can tell you is that I' going to listen to the scientists and the medical doctors and keep the health and safety of the people of Illinois upper most in my mind.

LEMON: Governor Pritzker, I appreciate your time. Thank you so much. If you need anything, let us know.

PRITZKER: Thank you, Don.

LEMON: Thank you.

PRITZKER: I appreciate you.

LEMON: The president says his Easter deadline will be driven by the hard facts. Well, our Dr. Sanjay Gupta is here with the real hard facts. He's next.

[22:30:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: CNN learning tonight that health professionals are drafting options that could let people ease back into society. A federal health official describing a rolling response affecting different parts of the country at different times. Chief medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta joins us now. Dr. good evening to you.

So, it seems the reporting seems to back up much of what President Trump has been saying about easing restrictions. Is that the best thing for public health right now? What do you think?

SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I mean, you know, the drafting of these options, you know, for the rollbacks and the sort of ease back into normalcy, implementing that something like that in the near future doesn't make sense. I mean, I don't know if they are drafting up these things to be possibly used later, I am not sure.

But I think pretty clearly Don, even when this 15 days sort of pause was implemented, I think the idea was that at 15 days they would look at these measures and see where things are and probably get more stringent, not less stringent at that time. And there's real world data, you know, Don. Right now we are dealing with a novel coronavirus. So, nobody knows for certain how this virus is going to behave.

But look at China, look at South Korea, these are countries that give us some hope, right. In terms of what they've been able to do, but it was an eight to ten-week curve over there. If you take your foot off the pedal, the concern is you're going to erase all the gains that we have been trying to make.

LEMON: Yes. I think, it's fair that someone should be looking proactively about how and when to open the economy -- the country back up. But I am not sure, you know, once we do it and when it should be done, but I am not sure there should be like a timeline in the near future. So, I think you bring up a very good point. Listen. Every state is effective. Cases and deaths are rising. How would we know if an area is safe to be open up for business as usual when the outbreak is actively spreading? I've seen -- I've heard people say, you know, it was interesting to me

to hear the governor of New York and even the former Goldman Sachs, Lloyd Blankfein and I know Lloyd, saying you should, you know, young people -- to me it was surprising to hear because you don't know where those people are going, who they are going to come into contact with on and on. It was surprising to me.

GUPTA: Yes, I mean, look, you know, I think one thing the country has learned over the past week or so is the value of social distancing. It doesn't mean everyone is abiding by it by any means, but I think the people sort of fundamentally understand that this virus is contagious, it spreads person to person. If you sort of distance people you can break the chain of transmission from, you know, one person to another. That's what we are trying to do here so not as many people get sick at the same time.

But you are absolutely right, you know, you look at that map, Don. There has been a lot of focus on New York right now, but you know, in Michigan cases went from 65 to 1300 in one week. In Louisiana, basically no cases to close to 1400 in one week. Florida and Georgia increasing by 20 percent. So, you know, this is clearly spreading around the country. And I would say that most of the places that have lower numbers may be a reflection of less testing and also giving a picture of things from about 10 to 14 days ago, because that's how long it takes for someone to get sick, to get a test, all of that.

Last 10 to 14 days, Don, there is no question but that the virus is spreading more. So, these numbers are going to get worse. When they are considering, hey, should we be dialing things back, they are probably going to be considering that in the wake of the numbers still continuing to go up. So, you know, I think the decision is going to be pretty clear as Dr. Fauci talks about. He is going to look at the data.

LEMON: Yes. And you said there is so much we don't know about this. I asked you a similar question earlier last week. So much we don't know, we don't have the data because there is really no history. We don't know about this virus, correct?

GUPTA: Yes, when they say it's a novel coronavirus, that's in part what they mean. But from the health standpoint, the reason that it's so significant is that most pathogens that are circulating around you right now, Don, you have some natural immunity to, just by virtue of your time here on this planet. Me too.

[22:35:15]

With this virus, because it had never circulated before was novel, none of us had any native immunity to it. And that's what makes it so frightening. That's why public health officials get concerned about something like that.

LEMON: Dr. Birx is saying, Dr. that she's deeply concerned about New York, asking people who have recently left to self-quarantine for 14 days, but isn't there a community spread already in just about every single state? GUPTA: Yes. This one surprised me. And I hope I get a chance to ask

her specifically about that, because, yes, New York is considered a hot spot. You know, I think 5 percent of the world's patients right now with coronavirus are in New York. That is true. But I think you're right, Don. I mean, take the example of New York going to Florida. There's more cases in New York that could be reflective of more testing, but then telling people to go to Florida and quarantine themselves.

I don't quite get it. I mean, there's cases in Washington and California, those are hotspots as well. And frankly, as you know, Don, you and I talked about, people should pretty much be staying home as much as possible right now anyway. So, in some ways, you know, the country is sort of being recommended to quarantine as much as possible. So, why do they then single out New York and say New Yorkers in particular have to do a 14-day quarantine if they even go, you know, east in their own state? Not quite sure, but I hope we can dig into that all in more with her.

LEMON: All right. Dr. Gupta, thank you very much. I appreciate it.

President Trump and New York Governor Andrew Cuomo clashing over the government's response to coronavirus. What happened today to amped up the tension?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[22:40:00]

LEMON: Tonight the White House public health experts said anyone who recently left New York City should self-quarantine, a move and attempt to slow the spread of the virus after Dr. Deborah Birx announced that 56 percent of all the cases in the United States are coming from the New York metro area.

Joining me now to discuss, Frank Bruni. From the New York Times and CNN political commentator Catherine Rampell. Good evening to both of you. Thanks for joining. Glad that you are safe and self-distancing. Thank you so much.

So, listen, Frank, I'm going to start with you. Cases in New York soaring, the so called attack rate of the virus are making New York the epicenter of this pandemic in the U.S. All the officials had expressed concerns about the situation in New York, but this move to quarantine New Yorkers came as a surprise.

FRANK BRUNI, CNN CONTRIBUTOR, NEW YORK TIMES OP-ED COLUMNIST: It did come as a surprise, I mean in one sense it shouldn't, because when there is an epidemiological sense to it, when you're fighting an epidemic, you want people who are coming from geographic areas where it is most for days it works more concentrated to minimize their contact with people in other areas.

But this was just so sudden and it sent a kind of message that's a little bit different from the ones that we have been hearing from a lot of public health experts who had been emphasizing I think correctly that this is a national crisis that's going to require a national response, that it doesn't do us a lot of good to send the message that we can draw borders around it and worry about this but not about that. And so, I worry about the sort of message it sends.

And it also came at diametric odds with so much else that we have been hearing from the White House, from Trump over recent days which is a lot of happy talk about how soon the countries is going to get back to work, about how quickly our economy is going to become roaring back. This was a much, much more chilling message.

LEMON: Yes. Frank, Kaitlan Collins asked about the president if he gave Governor Cuomo a heads up about the quarantine, he just said that we are talking to them. No advance notice about a 14-day quarantine.

(BAD AUDIO)

CATHERINE RAMPELL, CNN POLITICAL REPORTER: Me?

BRUNI: I mean -- its actively rude or passively sloppy, but it's disturbing, because -- I'm sorry, was that to Catherine?

LEMON: That's to you, Frank. Go on. Frank?

BRUNI: Hello. Yeah.

LEMON: That's for you.

BRUNI: I am sorry. I heard Catherine chime in. I worry about that because if we really -- I mean, if we are going to get through this as best possible, it depends utterly on cooperation between the federal government and state officials. And you can't have cooperation without mutual respect and goodwill and you can't have that without certain courtesies. And so, the idea that this came as a surprise to the governor of New York who has been such a remarkable figure in all of these, I find more than a little disturbing.

LEMON: Yes. So, Catherine, this is for you. And speaking of -- heads up or warning, Governor Cuomo making the case today that New York should be a warning to the nation. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. ANDREW CUOMO (D-NY): We are just a test case and that's how the nation should look at it. Look at us today. Where we are today, you will be in three weeks or four weeks or five weeks or six weeks. We are your future. And what we do here will chart the course for what we do in your city and in your community.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: To me that was the most important lesson, the most important sound bite of the day, Catherine, about opportunities to learn from New York City. Are they being missed?

RAMPELL: I think they are at this point. There are lots of the various parts of the country where people think that they are immune from this pandemic just as we in New York presumably thought that we were going to be safe from a very distant handemic (ph) than an epidemic that was hitting countries in East Asia, for example.

[22:45:15]

I think that there's a tendency in general to assume if it's not here yet or it is not visibly here yet that it may not come here at all. That's why you're seeing people still go to the beaches for example in warmer climates of this country. So, yes, other states should be taking heed.

New York has much higher rates of diagnoses at this point, maybe that's partly because of the fact that we have higher density here, for example, people ride the subway, etcetera, but we have also been doing a lot more testing here than has been the case in many other parts of the country.

So, it is possible that there has been much higher rates of spread elsewhere in the United States than people have realize. And regular Americans as well as their political leadership I think are not really taking that into account when designing policies, when deciding whether it's you know, particularly wise to continue with their day- to-day lives.

LEMON: There were some testy exchanges today between the president and Governor Cuomo. Here is -- this is one where Cuomo showed his frustration with the president refusal to release government supplies. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: You have 20,000 ventilators in the stockpile. Release the ventilators to New York. How can we be in a situation where you're going to have New Yorkers possibly dying because they can't get a ventilator, but a federal agency saying I am going to leave the ventilators in the stockpile? I mean, have we really come to that point?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: So, Frank, listen. They had, you know, he has been critical of the president at times, but they had sort of made up and were complimentary. What is going on now?

BRUNI: Well, I mean, every relationship with Trump is an erratic one, it goes up and down because that's the way he behaves. Andrew Cuomo is looking at a wave of sickness and death coming at him. And New York State, for all of its sides, for all of its (inaudible) does not have the resources of the federal government and it needs to know that the federal government has its back. It needs not to hear what Trump once said to Governor Cuomo and other governors, which is, you are on your own.

And I think you're hearing in Andre Cuomo's voice, a very real frustrations at a very blunt acknowledgment of the dimensions of this problem. And I think he's frustrated because the president doesn't clearly grasp the dimensions as well as, he and other governors do.

LEMON: Thank you both. I appreciate it. Congress still negotiating over a much needed stimulus bill. We are going to dig in to what's being considered and how it could impact not just on Wall Street but every day Americans.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[22:50:00]

LEMON: The DOW surging today on news that Congress is close to a deal on a massive coronavirus relief package. But as millions of Americans inch closer to financial disaster, what relief can they expect and what will this bill do to help businesses large and small? Let's discuss now. CNN business anchor Julia Chatterley. Julia, wow, what an up and down, up and down roller coaster with the DOW. So, it's not finalized. By the way, welcome, good evening to you.

JULIA CHATTERLEY, CNN BUSINESS ANCHOR: Thank you.

LEMON: By the way, not finalized but the Senate bill is expected. It's going to include billions of dollars for states and hospitals as well as what Senator Schumer calls quote, unemployment insurance on steroids. What's in this bill to help every day Americans?

CHATTERLEY: Let me tell you what I'm hearing about the (inaudible) of this bill getting passed. I'm hearing real disquiet that there's pretty much no chance of it happening tonight. This concerns that we don't even get it tomorrow and it cuts exactly to what you're talking about. The lending to big corporations and the conditions that the Democrats are trying to attach to it here.

They're asking for oversight. The Republicans apparently said yes. They are asking for an inspector general further oversight. The Republicans had said yes. Then comes all the other the measures. They want workers added to the boards. Earlier they were asking for ratio pay date within ratios. That got written off. There were all sorts of conditions and I think there's real fears that they are simply demanding too much on that.

But there's other issues as well. All of these things would be good ordinarily. But is this the time when we need this investment for survival for businesses and for workers? There's also concern about form and how much goes to health authorities, goes to municipalities and states. Don, this does not look like we're just drafting this and taking some time over it.

This looks like real concern to me about getting this done. And the desperate workers who are being made redundant being fired on a daily basis and we're seeing the numbers gathering even if you'd agree to this and the loans to small and medium size enterprises. It's not coming any time soon if we can't get this deal signed off.

LEMON: We have heard a lot about direct payment to people. Where does that stand, Julia? CHATTERLEY: Looks like that's agreed. And also it looks like the

lending to the small and medium size enterprises is agreed. But, you know, it doesn't help if you have an agreement on this and you can't agree on some of the issues like, corporate lending and money going to states. Do, at this stage, the Democrats are so in danger.

I think of looking like they're not concerned about millions of people, they were frightened about the future of their jobs and simply meeting that bills over the next two to three months. If that's how long this economic sleep in the economy goes on. There's real fear here and there's no excuse really for not somehow meeting in the middle here and getting this deal signed.

[22:55:06]

LEMON: So, there's nothing to and if that is true they are and you know, especially with what Mitch McConnell said if they are looking to put issues concerning the green new deal and those sorts of things in there. And you know, the carbon footprint into this. Then, yes, they will look bad. But what about the corporate slush fund part of it? That will make Republicans look bad as well if they are looking to put that to end.

CHATTERLEY: There should be limits. All of the things that have been brought up by the Democrats here you can argue are necessary things that need changing. Everything about the crisis that we're seeing here, jobs, economy, financial crisis, come back to the underlying vulnerabilities. That fact that 40 percent of households in this country cannot cut a $500 check. These things do need addressing.

I guess, the argument for a lot people are making and I'll make it too is, we can't address all of these issues at this moment. When so many people are threatened with unemployment. People are afraid of being able to pay their rent and mortgages. Going out and buying food. There's too much uncertainty. This stimulus package should not be called a stimulus package or a bail out package. It's an investment in survival. Don. And we have to call it that. And these guys needs to let pull themselves together and agree on something.

LEMON: This is not the time to slip your agenda and your pet projects in this. This is the time to get help to the American people.

CHATTERLEY: Absolutely. It maybe 2020. But we have to get to the election first. We need to survive the next two to three months.

LEMON: Thank you, Julia. I appreciate that.

CHATTERLEY: Thank you.

LEMON: We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)