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Don Lemon Tonight

More Deaths Expected In The U.S.; Cities And States Compete For Medical Supplies; Coronavirus Pandemic; Pentagon Says It Still Has Not Sent Out Ventilators Because It Has Not Been Told Where To Send Them; Commander Of Aircraft Carrier Hit By Coronavirus Outbreak Warns Navy Decisive Action Is Needed; More Than 185,000 U.S. Coronavirus Cases, Most Reported Deaths In A Single Day, 830; Defense Production Act Has Been Used Routinely, But Not With Coronavirus; Retailers Furloughing Employees. Aired 10-11p ET

Aired March 31, 2020 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[22:00:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST: You know the phrase to borrow from Shakespeare a little bit. It's not the question, it is the answer.

The only good news is they're telling us it's working. Staying away works. Let the fact that I'm doing the show and I'm doing OK be a comfort. But the numbers are not everything. Most of us are going to be fine. Hopefully it stays that way for me.

But also, let me take away any illusion that you're not bigger, you're too big for this. If I can get it, you can get it, all right? Remember, the good news is we are our best solution. Together as ever as one. We know what to do to make this easier on all of us. We just have to do it.

A lot of news. "CNN TONIGHT." D. Lemon on top of all of it, as always.

DON LEMON, CNN HOST: What's going on today? Something's different about your set.

CUOMO: Is it?

LEMON: Yes. Where is your suit?

CUOMO: I've worked on this hard.

LEMON: Your black tie and the white shirt.

CUOMO: You know, I'm too sick. Christina said it didn't look right for me to be sick in a funerial suit. It looks too much like what I might be buried in it.

LEMON: Yes? Does she come down there and do some decorating and help you dress?

CUOMO: Nope. Nobody will come anywhere near me. Those stairs are a -- they're over there -- those stairs are a no-go zone.

LEMON: You look --

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: Even the dogs don't come.

LEMON: Listen, don't get -- listen, everybody, don't get it twisted. We know this is very serious. But this is how Chris and I interact. We tease each other. So, I knew when I got the call earlier this morning and saw it said Christopher Cuomo, I was like, lord, here we go. And then -- but I was actually on a business call. So, I was like I'll call you right back. And I called you back. I knew what you were going to tell me. So, anyway --

CUOMO: It's nice that's where the priority played in your own life.

LEMON: Well, we --

CUOMO: You were on a business call.

LEMON: -- we had been talking about it.

CUOMO: I have the coronavirus. It's fine.

LEMON: Can I share? We had been talking about it. You told me you were going to go get the test. That you were concerned. You thought it was a sinus infection initially. So, I had been holding on to the information for a while. And so, when you called me it wasn't a surprise.

And you're a strong guy so I know that you'll have to be fine. I just don't want to have because your family has abandoned you, I don't want to have to come over there and bring you stuff like "Silence of the Lamb" with a rope down the little window or your --

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: I don't want to get the hose again. I'll tell you what I feel badly about and this is why I want you to avoid this. It's not being sick. I'll deal with it. Whatever it is, it is. So many people have it so much worse. I don't believe that that's the way I'm going to go.

But not being able to be there for the people you love, for guys like me and you, that is a killer.

LEMON: Yes.

CUOMO: To have those kids upstairs and I don't know if any of them is sick yet because of me. My wife, the center of everything, and I'm down here. That sucks and I don't want other people to be in this position. So, learn from me, you can get it. Avoid it.

LEMON: Yes. Well, did you get my gift?

CUOMO: No. LEMON: Sent you a six pack of corona.

CUOMO: Did you? You're not funny, by the way. And I'm not going to forget.

LEMON: I know I'm not. I'm trying to make you feel better. I actually do feel bad for you.

CUOMO: And when I laugh it hurts my back.

LEMON: Yes.

CUOMO: This is so weird, Don. It is so weird to have symptoms and when you talk to the doctor, they say there is nothing you can do.

LEMON: Nothing you can do. Nothing you can do.

CUOMO: Let us know if your breathing gets more restricted. And then you say, OK, why, what do we do then?

LEMON: But here's the real me -- this is a concern. The other part I'm trying to make you feel good and make you laugh, but here's the real part.

You have to listen to what Dr. Gupta said. I saw your segment with Dr. Gupta. And he's concerned about the breathing and your chest and all of that. You have to listen to him, so listen to the symptoms.

I know that you, you know, you want to get out, you want to work out, you want to do all those things. You can't do it right now. I know that your gym is down there in the basement. Don't do that, Chris. I know that you got the sauna down there in the basement. Don't do that.

Chill out for however long they tell you to do it. And just take your time and relax. Focus on your show. Do your radio. talk to people. Yell at Mario at the top of the stairs or what have you and just chill out.

And I'll make some bad jokes and inappropriate jokes and I'll call you and text you, things like, why are you crying on the air? Why are you crying on the air? You always tease, when I get emotional on the air you always tease me and call me a baby.

CUOMO: I will cry. I'm sick.

LEMON: And now you're crying on the air. What's going on with you?

CUOMO: I wasn't emotional on the air. There is a difference between poignance and just, you know, outpouring of emotion for effect. Not that I'm drawing a distinction between the two of us.

LEMON: OK. I love you, buddy.

CUOMO: I care. I care about people who care about us. I care about these people just like you. We've seen so many. We're doing so much for people they don't even know. LEMON: Yes.

CUOMO: And we're not even doing enough for ourselves. And that's what galls me. But you've got to love these frontline people, man. They are just the best of us. They give me hope in humanity.

LEMON: They are the best. And they are really on the front lines. Believe me, when they say it's like a war zone, I know you've been out and you've been seeing some of this stuff, but just take care of yourself.

[22:05:02]

We need you. Take care of your family. I already texted Christina today. You know if you need anything, I'm really right around the corner, honestly. We don't live that far from each other, sadly.

So, you don't get to bug me as much, and that's kind of good. Someone asked me today, they said, how is he doing? I said he's fine. I don't want to speak for him, but the basement is the right place for him.

CUOMO: That seems to be the consensus. You can come and look at me through the glass. I'll be here for a couple of weeks.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: It rubs the lotion on its skin.

CUOMO: Anyway, get to the news.

LEMON: I've got to go.

CUOMO: There's a lot of information. There's a lot of love. People have been so good to me. Thank you for being good to me and my family.

LEMON: You be good.

CUOMO: I love you. I'll see you tomorrow.

LEMON: Any time. Just a phone call away. All right, buddy. Take care, and the whole Cuomo family.

This is CNN TONIGHT. I'm Don Lemon.

And our breaking news is news that should make every American stop in their tracks. There are now -- I always say this is -- there are people involved. There you get to see there is a person who is involved who is close to me and to you. You watch him every night.

There are more than 185,000 cases of coronavirus in this country. More than 3,825 deaths. At least 821 deaths reported just today, and that is what's happening in this country. That is the most reported coronaviruses -- coronavirus deaths in the country in a single day since the outbreak began.

A number that just goes up and up and up. You see it here. Last Friday there were at least 258 reported deaths. Look at that, 258 reported deaths March 27th, OK? Just that single day. Saturday, 394.

The next day, March 28th, 394 deaths reported on Sunday, and then 456. Look at that. Yesterday, that was just yesterday. Yesterday, that number was up. Excuse me, on Monday, 575 deaths. And tonight at least 821 new deaths reported.

You see the numbers going up. A grim president today warning Americans that the next two weeks will be very painful and we now know. We see that they already are. And his coronavirus task force says that even if guidelines are followed precisely, and we've all seen that they haven't been so far, there could be -- there still could be 100,000 and 240,000 deaths. To 240,000 deaths. Can you imagine that?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: I want every American to be prepared for the hard days that lie ahead. We're going to go through a very tough two weeks. And then hopefully as the experts are predicting, as I think a lot of us are predicting after having studied it so hard, we're going to start seeing some real light at the end of the tunnel, but this is going to be a very painful, very, very painful two weeks.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: And the president also paid tribute to the bravery of true heroes among us. The true heroes that are among us. The health care workers on the front lines risking their own lives while trying to save the rest of us.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: The bravery is incredible. And I just have to take my hat -- I would take my hat -- if I were wearing that hat, I'd rip that hat off so fast and I would say you people are just incredible. They really are. They're very brave.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: But listen to what the president says now, tonight, about comparing the flu to the coronavirus.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Think of what would have happened if we didn't do anything. I mean, I've had many friends, business people, people with great actually common sense. They said, why don't we ride it out? A lot of people have said -- a lot of people have thought about it. Ride it out. Don't do anything, just ride it out and think of it as the flu, but it's not the flu. It's vicious.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Gee, who would ever have thought that we could just ride this out? Does he think that we've all forgotten that he called the coronavirus a hoax? Does he think that we have forgotten what he said -- that he said that it would disappear like a miracle, that his administration insisted that it was contained, mocked people who said otherwise, urged Americans to buy stock.

That he said 15 cases would go down to zero in a couple of days. That's all the truth. That's all on tape.

And where did people get the false and dangerous idea that this was like the flu? There it is, maybe from the president, who tweeted just a few weeks ago comparing the number of people who die from the flu to deaths from coronavirus. Tonight, he also took credit for what he calls the biggest decision he made, shutting down travel from China.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I made a decision to stop China from coming in. Took a lot of heat. Even from China. They weren't exactly happy. I just made a trade deal, a big one, $250 billion trade deal and I'm shortly thereafter saying you can't come into our country. That was a big decision. That was earlier than the date you're talking about.

[22:10:00]

So that was a big decision. That was probably -- and by the way, not because I did it, that was probably the biggest decision we made.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Some people are fact diverse but we like the facts on this show. And so, here's the fact to that because you've been hearing that a lot from the president, OK? Everybody, listen.

Here's the fact. The president didn't shut down travel from China. All right? Listen. He made exceptions for immediate family members of American citizens and permanent residents and American citizens themselves were free to go back and forth.

So -- and anyone who had been to Hubei province were quarantined, the rest were screened and they were subject to up to 17 days of self- quarantine. That is by no means a shutdown. And we all know this virus doesn't care whether you're a citizen or not. It doesn't care who your family is. This is a time for the cold, hard facts, yet the president says this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I'm not about bad news. I want to give people hope. I want to give people a feeling that we all have a chance. I mean, when you saw -- when you saw the numbers, and when John and all of you saw those numbers, and you were saying 120,000 people. You mean that's good? A hundred -- dead people within a short period of time. I want to give people a feeling of hope.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Yet, you know, it is the president's job to give Americans hope. It's also his job to level with people. We need honesty and we need credibility and we need it now.

Two things this president has squandered away over the last three years and from the very beginning of this crisis.

The President of the United States is now telling us that up to almost a quarter of a million Americans could die from the coronavirus. You see it right there. Look, it's on the graph, it's at that briefing. He's telling people to wear scarves because we don't have enough masks.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What's your recommendation --

(CROSSTALK)

TRUMP: OK.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I understand there is an issue with supplies.

TRUMP: That's right.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But if there wasn't enough --

(CROSSTALK)

TRUMP: Well, you know, you can use a scarf. A scarf is -- everybody -- a lot of people have scarves and you can use a scarf. Scarf would be very good.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: So how did it come to this in the United States of America, the greatest country on the planet, brought to the brink of human disaster and economic disaster where the best-case scenario is 100,000 dead?

How did it come to this that the president of the great country -- of this great country is telling people to wear scarves if they can't wear masks, which they can't because there aren't enough masks? Why aren't there enough masks and how do we fight through this and come out on the other side? With science. With social distancing. Act on what the experts are saying.

As Dr. Cornelia Griggs told me and all the people at home last night, hold the line. Give them a chance to save lives. If you're afraid, take heart from her and all the heroes out there, and if you're not taking this seriously, yet it's deadly serious, 821 of your fellow citizens died today. It is really serious.

CNN's White House correspondent is Kaitlan Collins. I want to bring Kaitlan in right now. CNN's medical analyst Dr. Celine Gounder joins us as well. Good evening to both of you. I really appreciate you joining us.

Kaitlan, you first. It's good that the president spoke about the seriousness of this today. We're going to get to, you know, what led to this, but real questions still remain about how prepared the United States, the administration are about the crisis right now. Talk to me about that.

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, certainly they do because the question now is what you're going to see over the next two weeks. But you heard the president today, he said it's going to be challenging and it's going to be painful.

There are still questions about how these hospitals are going to deal with that, and so those questions came up also in the briefing where they were looking at these models and there were questions about ventilators and this protective gear that we've seen these health care workers say that they are severely lacking.

And one notable thing the president said about ventilators is he said he believes that some hospitals are overstating the needs that they have of how many ventilators they want, and actually the federal government is telling them, no, we don't agree with you in certain situations.

I saw the Illinois governor on with Chris last hour. He was saying that that basically happened to him. He said, OK, at least send me what you think I need at this point. Because they still say right now at this point, they can't only get what they need, they're also competing with FEMA and the federal government to buy these supplies.

LEMON: Dr. Gounder, Dr. Fauci is warning Americans they should be prepared for at least 100,000 deaths. That's staggering. Is there anything more that we can do so fewer people will die?

[22:14:53]

CELINE GOUNDER, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: Well, what's concerning about those estimates, so the 100,000 to 240,000 deaths that both Trump and Fauci have discussed from the press conference today is that those assume that we actually implement strict social distancing measures until the end of May.

And there are many parts of the country that have yet to even do that, to even contemplate that, and those that are even, you know, considering it or have talked about it aren't doing it rigorously enough.

And so that -- there is a lot that needs to be done to achieve even those numbers of deaths.

LEMON: Kaitlan, the president is now portraying himself as essentially fighting back against people who told him to ride it out, to essentially do nothing. That doesn't line up with the facts. I mean, he downplayed the crisis for a very long time.

COLLINS: Yes. His somber tone today doesn't erase to what the president has said in the past. Even just weeks ago when he was the one comparing the coronavirus outbreak to the flu. So today he was pushing back, saying this is nothing like the flu. That is what Dr. Fauci has been saying all along, that it's much deadlier than the flu is.

And you saw the president strike a much more somber tone but it also doesn't, you know, disregard the fact that he did for months downplayed the coronavirus outbreak, something that people inside this White House and allies of this president will say to you.

But I do think you felt amid administration officials realize just how seriously the president took this after looking at those models, seeing those images of that hospital in New York where is a refrigerated truck sitting outside acting as a makeshift mortuary.

And of course, he also polling that a lot of Americans favor keeping these stricter measures in place. All of those played a factor into that somber tone you saw coming from the president today.

LEMON: Yes. Dr. Gounder, the president says nearly 10,000 ventilators are being held back from distribution. From a medical perspective, do governors and health care professionals, do they need them now?

GOUNDER: I think this is very concerning. I think you have a couple of things at play here, Don. One is that you're going to see a surge in need very quickly. And so, if those ventilators are not on hand, when you have a patient that goes into respiratory distress that needs a ventilator, it happens like that. You have minutes.

And so, to say let's just wait and see until we see that surge in patients, you're going to see a lot of patients die just because of that. You know, and then secondly, I think a big problem here is that there is no federal, national level coordination according to need, according to epidemiological projections as to where the needs are going to be.

And so first come first serve and on the basis of political favorites is not a way to be allocating these very scarce resources right now.

LEMON: So, it's not prudent to hold some back in case, like, in case someone needs, you know, in an emergency and some other place doesn't need as many? Not at all, Dr. Gounder?

GOUNDER: We need them in places that are most likely to need them.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: It seems to make -- it seems to make sense but it doesn't.

GOUNDER: Yes.

LEMON: Say again?

GOUNDER: I mean, we need them in the places that are most likely to need them now in the next couple of days. You know, it takes time to get these things in place, to get them set up. We need them in New York and other places that are seeing the surge right now because otherwise they're not going to be arriving in time for us to use them to put patients on them.

LEMON: Kaitlan, what's the president saying now about all Americans that maybe wearing face masks?

COLLINS: Yes, this is notable. We know this came under intense discussion today at the coronavirus task force briefing. It's not really clear where they came out on what the guidance is going to be because right now it's Americans do not need to wear masks. The general public doesn't.

We know, we saw the surgeon general typing in all caps telling Americans to stop buying these masks because they needed to save them for health care workers. But today the president was saying it doesn't have to be a mask. That if people want, they can wear a scarf or some type of bandana, some protective gear around their face when they're out in public.

Though there is no formal guidance yet. We are still waiting to see what it is. But we know Dr. Fauci on our air this morning said actually he thinks it's a good idea, he thinks we are potentially moving toward that phase in the response to this.

But there is concern about recommending that Americans and the general public wear these masks is, of course, we're in short supply of masks for the people who are in these rooms interacting with people who may or who do have coronavirus.

So, if they still don't have enough for the health care workers, they're hesitant to recommend it for everyone. That could change once they feel they're up to speed on the supplies.

LEMON: Kaitlan, Dr. Gounder, thank you very much. I appreciate your time.

We've got CNN -- some new reporting from CNN TONIGHT on what happened to all those coronavirus test that we were promised. The truth about testing. That's next.

[22:20:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: President Trump tonight defending coronavirus testing across the United States despite governors and medical workers saying that they don't have enough tests. Vice President Mike Pence trying to blame the whole thing on what he called a misunderstanding. Here with the truth about --

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There would be 27 million tests available by the end of the month. So, can you outline where in the supply chain, where in the logistics chain where are those other 26, yes, where are the other 26 million tests right now?

MICHAEL PENCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: I think the -- the misunderstanding early on was there were many tests being distributed, many test kits being sent, but under the old system, as the president's described it, the antiquated system, those were being processed in state labs or at CDC or in private labs on a very slow, methodical system that could only produce maybe 30 to 50 tests a day.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: So, let's talk now. Kaitlan Collins is here. Drew Griffin as well with the truth about testing. Drew, so clear this up for us. The president said that millions of tests were being sent out. That everyone who wants a test gets a test. Now the vice president is talking about an antiquated system. Is he saying that they weren't sent, weren't used or what? What's he saying?

DREW GRIFFIN, CNN SENIOR INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT: Don, I wish I knew. I really don't know what he's saying. There aren't 27 million tests. The end of the month is today. Twenty-seven million tests have not been done. Everybody is not getting a test.

First the tests went out that didn't work. Then they went out without the supplies to collect the test. Then they went out without the labs being able to process the test.

And let's, let's get real. You can make as many test kits as you want, but if the labs can't process the tests and send them back to the patient and the doctor, what good are they?

[22:25:01]

I really don't know what the vice president is talking about here. I just know that this story about testing just gets worse and worse. We are way far behind. Governors across the country are just begging for more testing capacity, and while it is inching up, we are still lagging. Everywhere.

LEMON: Let's talk about something that Dr. Birx said, Drew, that half a million tests were sent out and the state -- and the states aren't aware of them. I don't know what that's about. So, what has happened? How will there be some kind of coordination to use these tests just sitting around somewhere?

GRIFFIN: And -- and the follow-up questions weren't answered. What is the answer? She didn't know the answer. Brett Giroir, the admiral that was brought in to kind of clear up the testing is supposed to be working on it, but my ears really perked up as an investigative correspondent.

When this is all done, I'm going to go looking for the millions and millions of tests that the U.S. taxpayers paid for that apparently aren't being used because one hand doesn't know what the other is doing. We are in the -- if these tests are out there not being used, that is really a crime.

LEMON: Kaitlan, it was in mid-March the president was boasting about the government partnering with private companies for drive-through testing. Here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: We've been in discussions with pharmacies and retailers to make drive-through tests available in the critical locations identified by public health professionals. The goal is for individuals to be able to drive up and be swabbed without having to leave your car.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Kaitlan, I understand that you're learning that that hasn't come close to being fulfilled?

COLLINS: No. The president was essentially touting it, making it sound like it was going to be this network. It sounded like a great idea because there are all these parking lots, these stores, Walmart, Target, CVS, Walgreens, they have a combined 30,000 locations.

Don, two weeks after the president made that comment, my colleague Cristina Alesci and I have realized there are only five stores in the entire country that are offering drive-through coronavirus testing, and none of it is available to the general public.

You cannot go unless you are a first responder or a health care employee or now CVS says it is going to allow senior citizens who have symptoms of coronavirus to come and get tested in their drive-through testing.

But, again, there are only five locations throughout the entire United States. Now, it's only been two weeks. We asked these companies if they have plans for future openings or whether or not they're going to extend it to the general public to have that testing, as the president implied that that would be the case.

They said they're working with the government, but, Don, they did not give us any details about any more of those happening. So right now, they are only testing people. Some of the locations, the two Walmart locations are only testing first responders and health care employees who are showing symptoms of coronavirus.

And of course, as we have very well learned by now there are some people who can have coronavirus and be asymptomatic. So, as Drew was just noting, testing has remained the number one issue in all of this. And clearly, by this story this private/public partnership that the president touted only five locations have come out of that so far.

LEMON: Drew, Kaitlan, thank you very much. I appreciate it.

The Pentagon says they have 2,000 ventilators that they can deliver to help fight coronavirus, so why haven't any of them been sent out? We've got the latest reporting on that coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: The Pentagon confirming today it has not shipped a single ventilator, despite promising to distribute up to 2,000. A defense official also saying only 1.5 million N95 masks out of the 5 million have been sent out, and it is unclear if the military has tested civilians. All a major contradiction from what Defense Secretary Mark Esper said just two weeks ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARK ESPER, U.S. DEFENSE SECRETARY: First, the Department of Defense will make available up to 5 million N95 respirator masks and other personal protective equipment from our own strategic reserves to the Department of Health and Human Services for distribution. Next, we are prepared to distribute to HHS up to 2,000 deployable ventilators for use, as needed. Third, the department has made our 14 certified coronavirus testing labs available to test non-DOD personal as well and we will soon offer two additional labs for that purpose.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: So, joining me now to discuss is CNN's Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr. Barbara, good evening to you. Thank you so much for joining us here. You know, they have ventilators and masks. The country desperately needs them. Why on earth have they not been sent in places they need them the most?

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: You know, it's a question that we asked today when a top Pentagon official was briefing reporters and were stunned to hear the answer, at least initially, 2,000 ventilators to be made available, as you just saw the Secretary of Defense say. And some 5 million N95 respirator masks. OK.

None of the ventilators have gone. And they said it was because the Department of Health and Human Services, which controls how they get distributed to private medical care, hadn't given them an address, hadn't said where they wanted them to go and so they were just sitting.

HHS comes back and says not true, we do have some respirators -- ventilators. The real bottom line on ventilators today is we have learned from the president that the country has 10,000 ventilators in reserve, according to him, and that may be the most disturbing indication, because what it means is they are holding them in reserve because they need to have them ready to move out to many different parts of the country when this dreadful -- I hate to call it surge of cases comes that everyone is now predicting over the next couple of weeks.

As far as the respirators go, the Pentagon has shipped about 2 million of the 5 million and the 3 million, again, the Pentagon insists it's waiting to be told by HHS where to send them. Don?

[22:35:10]

LEMON: Barbara, the commander of a naval aircraft carrier has put out an urgent plea after dozens of sailors became infected with the coronavirus. What is he saying?

STARR: Well, this is the commander of the carrier Theodore Roosevelt which right now is docked in Guam trying to get testing done of all 5,000 members of the crew. And removing the ill crew members. There may be as many as 70 or more getting them to local hospital. The commander today made an urgent plea. And let me just read you what this navy captain said to the Pentagon.

And I'm quoting him. He said, we are not at war. Sailors don't need to die. If we do not act now, we are failing to properly take care of our most trusted asset, our sailors. And the response from the Pentagon about all of this is that none of the sailors so far who are stricken are seriously ill or in the hospital.

LEMON: That's good.

STARR: And they are sending additional -- good news. Sending additional medical care, additional testing out there trying to see if they can at least take some of them off the ship. But what the commander is saying is what we already know. A ship has tight quarters. Everybody lives together. He wants to get the crew off, so they can be properly housed and isolated, and right now the Pentagon says it has no plans to evacuate that 5,000-person crew.

LEMON: It's good none of them are in serious condition right now or seriously ill. We wish them the best and hopefully that commander gets what he needs and all the sailors as well. Thank you so much. I appreciate that, Barbara.

STARR: Sure.

LEMON: Thank you.

Well, it turns out the president used the defense production act a lot during his president -- actually thousands of times, according to The New York Times. That report is next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[22:40:00]

LEMON: New York Times reporting that the Trump administration has used the defense production act hundreds of thousands of times, but only sparingly for the coronavirus. The president only invoking the law for one company to combat the growing pandemic, I should say. Here to discuss is Zolan Kanno-Youngs of "The New York Times" and CNN Medical Analyst, Dr. James Phillips.

Gentlemen, good evening. Thank you so much for joining us. Zolan you first.

ZOLAN KANNO-YOUNGS, HOMELAND SECURITY CORRESPONDENT, THE NEW YORK TIMES: Yes, good evening.

LEMON: Your reporting for the Times says that the defense department alone estimates it uses the act 300,000 times a year, but the president is reluctant to use it to fight the coronavirus. Why is that?

KANNO-YOUNGS: Well, so that number is -- is attributed to a report that was submitted by a committee of agencies that were formed to analyze the defense production act. This has been routinely used by the Trump administration, the Obama administration and previous administrations before that. Mostly for Defense Department acquisitions. For tanks. For weapons. For materials for those weapons.

But when you speak to former officials that worked -- that were the closest to implementing this language into those contracts, they have asked the exact question that you've asked, why it's not being used now. What we've heard is that some company executives have been lobbying the president to not use this. Some of those former officials do acknowledge as well that previous administrations have as well have wanted to rely on the volunteerism of certain companies and not intervene in the market.

And then, of course, you have to look at the president's own comments. The president has been reluctant to use this and has said that using it could nationalize the economy, but as one former official who used to lead the DPA division in FEMA told me, if using at least one of the powers under this law would mean nationalizing the economy then most of the economy would likely be nationalized already.

LEMON: Is this when you talk about that politics that may have also influenced the president? Is that what you're talking about?

KANNO-YOUNGS: Yes, partly.

LEMON: Yes.

KANNO-YOUNGS: Like I said, we have heard that certain company executives have tried to push the president to not invoke this law. When you do prioritize a contract that does mean that other clients of that vendor are likely to have their product be delayed. So that is a concern. But also, we have heard as well that there is a feeling that using this law could be -- go against American values, if you will. So we have heard all of that. But you do have to go back and look, once again, this has been routinely used by the administration and previous administrations.

LEMON: OK. Dr. Phillips, let me bring you in. Because you say when you saw this reporting that you had no idea the DPA was used so often. How much would expanding it have helped the front lines workers here?

DR. JAMES PHILLIPS, ASSISTANT PROFESSOR, GW UNIVERSITY HOSPITAL: Well, I figured there had to be some purpose behind the reluctance in enacting this or implementing it fully both -- on two fronts. One for the ventilators, which we know that the president did try or did successfully implement it against G.M. to sort of start the ventilator process there.

I have a bigger concern. And my concern is if all the physicians and nurses in the country and in the world are asking for protective equipment, why are we not implementing that? Every manufacturer of textiles in the United States right now should be in line to make N95 masks for us and for the rest of the world.

[22:45:00]

And come to find out that now I'm learning today from his report that it's been used hundreds of thousands of times for defense acquisitions. I can't believe it. And I know it's going to anger physicians and nurses out there on the front lines. We need this equipment. We are rationing it now, and it is going to get worse. So we're sort of left out there hanging. We don't know when more equipment is coming. We're really in the dark about the numbers in the strategic national stockpile.

And certainly outside of Hanes, who has started converting their factories to make N95 masks and PPE, I don't know of another manufacturer that is doing that. And when those of us who are in the heat of this are looking for some hope, we'd sure like to know where it's coming from and when we can expect it.

LEMON: All right. Dr. Phillip, Zolan, thank you very much. I appreciate it.

More retailers furloughing employees today which will likely add up to over three million Americans who filed for unemployment for the first time last week. How the coronavirus crisis is impacting America's workforce. That's next.

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[22:50:00]

LEMON: You guys know it's bad out there. We are all feeling it. Everybody is feeling it. Look at this up on your screen right now. J.C. Penney and Neiman-Marcus join the ranks of Macy's, Kohl's, Gap, other retailers announcing that they'll be furloughing workers in response to the economic damage from the coronavirus. For the 350,000 employees furloughed today and yesterday, and just a small fraction of what could be massive unemployment numbers yet to come.

Let's discuss. Seth Harris is here, he is a former acting labor secretary under President Barack Obama and he oversaw the rollout of the 2009 stimulus package. I'm so glad you can join us, secretary. I really appreciate it. We learned last week that over 3.2 million Americans filed for unemployment for the first time and we're bracing for the March jobs report this Friday. Just how bad do you think the economic situation is going to get?

SETH HARRIS, FORMER ACTING LABOR SECRETARY UNDER PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: It's bad and it's getting worse. We'll find out about last week's new unemployment claims Thursday morning. I fear that that number will be even higher than the 3.2 number you just cited, Don. The unemployment report we'll get on Friday is not going to give us a very good picture because the data that was collected for that report was collected before sort of the big shut down kicked in. So, don't pay too much attention to Friday's report, but Thursday's report, unemployment claims is going to be very important and I fear very bad.

LEMON: So, the next report, you think, will be -- will show us -- will be the most concise indication of where the jobs -- the unemployment numbers are going, correct?

HARRIS: I think that's right. But we're already getting estimates from some terrific labor economists all over the country. I saw an estimate from my friend Bill Rodgers at Rutgers today who estimates the true unemployment rate right now is around 17 percent. I've heard projections that could actually go over 20 percent.

Remember, Don, you'll remember back in the peak or the bottom, really, of the great recession. The highest unemployment rate we reached was 10 percent. The highest unemployment rate before that was in the great depression which was 25 percent. So, we are going to be maybe closer to the great depression than the great recession. That's going to be terrible for our country and for working people.

LEMON: Listen, people -- working people, people want to know when they can get back to work or if they are going to get back to work. Because I mentioned the large retailers that are now implementing furloughs. Is it an encouraging sign that they furloughed, but didn't lay off employees? I mean, how long do you think that can last?

HARRIS: Well, it means they think they are not going to shut down. And that's good news. The hope is that stimulus bill that was just passed will encourage both big and small businesses to keep people on the payroll. Those hundreds of billions of dollars in loans that the government is going to give out are all conditioned on employers keeping their workers on the payroll. As many as they possibly can.

For small businesses if they keep workers on the payroll, that loan becomes a grant. In other words, the loan is forgiven. So, there's a big incentive for businesses of all sizes to keep people on the payroll. That's better than unemployment insurance because most people have built their lives around what their paycheck is every week.

And so we want to keep them getting that paycheck for as long as possible. It also keeps the businesses intact and it allows us to recover more quickly when this pandemic passes.

LEMON: We're having a conversation, if you can tell me -- I want to get to something else. We were talking about the stock market in the break. Because you know, the president always refers, he likes to look at the stock market as an indication of how the economy is going. And I say that many people have their retirements, you know, tied up in the stock market. What do you say about that? I want the audience to hear what you told me.

HARRIS: Yes. Sure. The bottom-line is the stock market is not the economy. It's a projection by people who have a lot of money, mostly, about where particular businesses or businesses as a group are going with respect to profits. It doesn't tell us really where the economy, the main stream economy particularly is going.

And only about half of Americans have money in the stock market. A lot of workers, particularly low-wage and middle-wage workers don't have investments. What matters to them is what is in their paycheck, because they're living paycheck-to-paycheck, week to week. That's the most important thing.

LEMON: I want to get to this before we run out of time. Look at this video. I mean, it is a staggering that we've seen in recent days. It's showing a massive line of cars waiting at a food bank outside Pittsburgh. It's just, I mean, it gives you a sense of just how bad it is and how displaced people are and how scared people are, secretary. [22:55:15]

HARRIS: Yes. Don, there's real desperation out there. The good news is there that should be some money coming people's way. There's $1200 per adult coming in their way from the stimulus package, there's unemployment benefits coming their way. If they can just be patient and file. The unemployment system is swamped by a tsunami of unemployment claims, but there's a lot of fear.

There's a lot of worry. People are worried they're going to get evicted, they are going to be foreclosed on, they are going to lose their internet, they are going to lose their utilities. They won't be able to feed their kids. This is as much an economic crisis as it is a health crisis, but we've got to solve the health crisis first. The economic crisis will be solved when we can all get back to work.

LEMON: Seth Harris, thank you so much. I appreciate your time. You take care of yourself, be safe.

HARRIS: Thanks, Don.

LEMON: Tonight, at this moment, there are more than 185,000 cases of coronavirus in this country. At least 830 reported deaths, juts today. And new models show 100,000 to 240,000 people could die even with social distancing. We're going to have the latest information for you next.

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