Return to Transcripts main page

Don Lemon Tonight

Coronavirus Cases Continue To Rise Worldwide; President Trump Getting Advice From Media Allies; London Monitors P.M. Boris Johnson's Condition; There Is Chaos In The Rollout Of SBA's Paycheck Protection Program In The United States; According To "The New York Times," Peter Navarro Warned The White House In January Of Risks Of A Pandemic. Aired 11p-12a ET

Aired April 06, 2020 - 23:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[23:00:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DON LEMON, CNN HOST: This is CNN TONIGHT. I'm Don Lemon.

Eleven p.m. on the East Coast and here's the very latest on the coronavirus pandemic.

There are more than 1.3 million cases worldwide. And more than 74,000 deaths around the globe.

Here at home there are now more than 368,000 confirmed cases and more than 10,000 deaths in the U.S.

In a major international development tonight Britain Prime Minister Boris Johnson in intensive care unit in a London hospital after contracting coronavirus. His office saying that Johnson's condition worsened this afternoon.

As hospitals across the U.S. plead with the federal government to provide more medical supplies, President Trump announcing a deal with 3M. The company will provide additional 55 million N95 masks every month for healthcare workers on the frontlines.

Joining me now CNN's White House correspondent John Harwood, and our resident fact checker Daniel Dale. Gentlemen, good evening. John, to you first. Tonight, President Trump was combative, he was threatening reporters. Denying the legitimacy of questions about his performance during this crisis. Alarming to say the least.

JOHN HARWOOD, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: It was alarming, Don. And what we saw from the president was behavior in which he questioned the legitimacy of reporters asking questions. Questioned the legitimacy of the inspector general at the Department of Health and Human Services to survey hospitals and come up with a report that cast his administration in a negative light.

This was the -- this is the way authoritarian leaders behave. They say you can't question me. I'm the head of the state. Well, in a democracy we got checks and balances, reporters do hold the government to account.

Others in the government, whether it's the Congress or inspector generals within the executive branch hold the government to account. And the president showed his refusal to accept these kinds of limits last Friday. We talked about when he fired the inspector general of the intelligence community.

And when he went after Jon Karl for asking about the Health and Human Services inspector general report, he raised a question about where how long has this person been in the job. The person was put in her immediate job by President Trump and had served in the government long before that.

And he was, the president was saying that the fact that she had served under President Obama disqualified her from holding him to account. That is not the way the government works, that's not the way democracy works. Same with Michael Atkinson. He was a career official.

There is such a thing as expertise. There is a such a thing about the proper role of government to hold the leader the president feet to the fire and he's not accepting it under the pressure of this terrible situation in which the facts are not his friend.

LEMON: Not only aren't you supposed to question me but you're supposed to praise me as well. It seems to be the attitude.

HARWOOD: Right.

LEMON: Daniel, the president was very set off by the questions about this inspector general report that detailed severe and widespread shortages of medical supplies. President Trump says it's wrong. So, what are the facts here?

DANIEL DALE, CNN REPORTER: Don, there's no basis to dismiss it as just wrong. This report involves interviews with more than 300 hospital administrators from more than 40 states. It was conducted in late March. And what it found was a widespread short and of critical supplies. And those range from ventilators. We've all heard about those to masks, to even things like thermometers and cleaning supplies.

Now others in the administration have said that this is already outdated even though it was conducted in late March. You know, things have changed significantly over the last week. They can make that argument. We're not certain what's going on today at this minute, at this hour.

Trump just summarily dismissed it as Trump is alluding to because he's suggested this deputy inspector general Christi Grimm is out to get him. Well, as Jon alluded to, she was appoint -- she began her career -- she's a career official -- in 1999. Serving under Bush, Obama, Clinton, and Trump. And so, there's no basis for this suggesting that all of these reports all of these interviews are somehow the product of political bias.

LEMON: John, there's no question that this country needs medical supplies and equipment. So why is the president so reluctant to use the powers at his disposal so address this issue?

HARWOOD: Well, I think there a couple of things, Don. One is the president continues to make reference under pressure from business and under pressure from free market ideologues within the White House to his support for federalism. So, I don't have the power to do that. We have a Constitution. States are in charge.

[23:05:01]

Of course, he's not in the case of stay-at-home orders. He's not asked to order the states to do something. He's asked to recommend. Because it's clear that Republican officials listen to him.

But I think there's a second aspect of the two. Which is, the more control the administration takes, the more responsibility it has for the situation. And it is a bad situation. It is very difficult in New York, it's very difficult in Michigan, difficult in Louisiana. We've got other rolling developing hotspots in other places.

And if you as the president especially one seeking reelection this year, is presiding over this effort in which a lot of people are getting sick, a lot of people are dying. There's a lot of pain and blowback associated with that. And he pretty clearly doesn't want that.

LEMON: Thank you, gentlemen. I appreciate it. I want to get now to the news out of London. Britain's Prime Minister Boris Johnson hospitalized in intensive care unit battling coronavirus. Johnson's office is saying his condition worsened this afternoon.

CNN's Bianca Nobilo is in London now. Bianca, thank you for joining us in incredibly serious situation there. Intensive care often means being put out on a vent -- put on a ventilator. What can you tell us about the prime minister's condition? What's going on?

BIANCA NOBILO, CNN ANCHOR AND CORRESPONDENT: Well, you're right. Two out of the three cases of people going into the ICU with coronavirus do end up with that person being put on a ventilator.

Downing Street let us know about six hours ago now that the prime minister was conscious when he went into the intensive care unit. And that he wasn't on a ventilator at that point but needed to be in a location where if he needed that ventilator support, he would be able to get it.

Now what's really striking about this but certainly not unusual in the context of this pandemic is how quickly the prime minister's condition has deteriorated.

Only on Thursday evening he popped out at Downing Street in order to show his support for the British National Health Service. He clapped. He was looking a bit worse for wear and he went back in. Then we had one or two messages from him on Twitter and on Instagram.

And then on Sunday night he was taken into hospital for what was called routine tests by his doctors because he had symptoms that had persisted for 10 days. So, his fever and his cough hasn't subsided. He remained in this hospital, St. Thomas' Hospital in central London and then was taken to intensive care late Monday evening.

But it does seem to have come as quite a shock to the British government. Because only at 5 p.m. Monday did the government say that Boris Johnson was still leading the country and he was in good spirits and comfortable, Don.

LEMON: Yes. Bianca Nobilo with the update. We'll continue to check in with you. Thank you, Bianca. I appreciate that.

I want to turn now to Dr. Michael Osterholm, he is the director of the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policies. Also, the author of "Deadliest Enemy: Our War Against Killer Germs." Doctor, thank you so much for joining us again this evening. We appreciate your time and expertise.

MICHAEL OSTERHOLM, DIRECTOR, CENTER FOR INFECTIOUS DISEASE RESEARCH AND POLICIES: Good evening, Don.

LEMON: So, there are more than 367,000 cases of coronavirus in the U.S. and well over 10,000 deaths. But there are some glimmers of hope. Where are we in this fight against the virus?

OSTERHOLM: Well, you know, one of the things that has been really unfortunate is that when you're looking at this as a sprint. And this is a marathon. Remember in 1918 that pandemic lasted through the spring of 1918 until the spring of 1920.

Same thing is true with the other influenza pandemic. So, if this virus acts like that this is just the first inning. And I think that it's been unfortunate because we don't want to minimize how powerful and how deadly this first inning has been.

But we're in this for the long haul. We can have waves hit much larger than it has hit New York or any other city over the course of the months ahead and we've got to prepare for that. And that's what we're not doing.

LEMON: Doctor, the president keeps saying that we're starting to see, quote, "the light at the end of the tunnel." Is that optimism warranted right now?

OSTERHOLM: Well, it is in a sense that if you understand infectious disease pandemics like this, they are not a one and out. And I think people are approaching it like this is a hurricane. Once it makes landfall then we'll just get into trying to get all over it.

And what we're trying to tell you is that if you look at these kinds of events in the past they come and they go. And what happens is some areas will get hit now. Some will get hit later. But more importantly, many areas get hit multiple times.

Some of us have tried to make some estimates. Probably how many people really have been infected in New York City right now. And I'd be very surprised if it weren't at least a million to two million people. The numbers we're counting are those that get tested. Many milder

illnesses are missed. But that points out that there are probably at least 80 percent of the residents in the greater New York City metropolitan area that haven't been infected yet that will likely get infected over time.

Look what's happening right now in China, Singapore and Korea. All the infections are coming back even with those very major efforts to suppress it.

[23:10:02]

So, what we've got to keep doing and the media needs to help us with this, keep getting people to focus on yes, you need to take steps right now. Right now, to deal with this. But you've got to also plan to be in this thing for months and months. And that's the reality.

LEMON: I want you to take a listen what Dr. Fauci said when he was asked earlier about getting back to a normal life.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: If back to normal means acting like there never was a coronavirus problem, I don't think that's going to happen until we do have a situation where you can completely protect the population.

If you want to get to pre-coronavirus, you know, that might not ever happen in the sense of the fact the threat is there. But I believe with the therapies that will be coming online and with the fact that I feel confident that over a period of time we will get a good vaccine. That we will never have to get back to where we are right back now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Is he right? Is the vaccine the only answer?

OSTERHOLM: Well, it is. With one qualification. There's two redeemers in this situation. One is good one and one is not. The vaccine is obviously the answer that will save many, many lives but that's many months off.

The other one, unfortunately, is just getting infected and either getting surviving and now being immune or getting it and dying. And so, what we have to do is minimize those people dying from this so that we can save them for the point of getting the vaccine.

The challenge with that is we can't shut down the world for the next 18 months. And so, over and over again and you've heard me say this on your show multiple times, we need a plan for how we're going to thread that rope through the needle so that we don't just let all the cases happen and flood our healthcare system. Bring them down and many people die.

Or try to live in a world like the Wuhan, China event that isn't successful either. So, we've got to try to craft that plan in between. And that's what we need right now to get us through the next 18 or how many months it is to get a vaccine.

LEMON: Yes. And you're right about people staying at home because I believe -- I went to the grocery store this weekend for -- that was the one thing I did. But -- because I knew it was going to get worse the next two weeks. Right? I wouldn't be able to leave but I leave to come to work and I'm starting to see more people out on the streets. And so --

OSTERHOLM: Yes.

LEMON: -- the word needs to get out.

OSTERHOLM: The key message here, Don, is going to be figuring out how to -- when to put the pedal to the medal and when do we take it off.

LEMON: Yes.

OSTERHOLM: So that we try to get ourselves through this without shutting down but also not letting a lot of infections happen.

LEMON: Thank you, doctor. I appreciate your time.

OSTERHOLM: Thank you.

LEMON: The number of confirmed cases of coronavirus now soaring past 368,000. More than 10,000 deaths. The U.S. surgeon general warning it's going to be a tough week for Americans.

Here's CNN Erica Hill.

ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR & CORRESPONDENT: Two hundred fifty beds at the meadowlands in New Jersey. Twenty-five hundred each at Chicago's McCormick Place exposition center, and New York's massive Javits Center where COVID-19 patients began arriving over the weekend.

The navy hospital ship Comfort now accepting COVID-19 patients as well. The two facilities acting as relief valves for the states hospitals as New York death toll continues to rise. Though more slowly.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. ANDREW CUOMO (D-NY): While none of this is good news, the flattening possible flattening of the curve is better than the increases that we have seen.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: The CDC today warning the country's death toll could be higher because data is lagging by as much as two weeks. As a New York City councilman tweets the city may need to bury victims in parks because morgues and trailers outside hospitals are reaching capacity.

That's not happening at the moment. Though, Mark Levine staff says it is part of a contingency plan which seem to catch the governor by surprise. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: I have heard a lot of wild rumors. But I have not heard anything about the city burying people in parks.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: Around the country, communities adapting and bracing for what the surgeon general cautions will be the hardest and saddest week yet.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEROME ADAMS, U.S. SURGEON GENERAL: This is going to be our Pearl Harbor moment. Our 9/11 moment. Only it's not going to be localized, it's going to be happening all over the country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: In New Orleans mortuaries and morgues are at capacity. Louisiana's governor says they could run out of the ventilators and beds by the end of the week. Officials in New York warn they may have even less time and resources.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DEANNE CRISWELL, COMMISSIONER, NEW YORK CITY EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT DEPARTMENT: The numbers that we're really watching is still the number of hospital admissions. The numbers that are going into the ICU and eventually on ventilators. And we're not seeing a decrease in those numbers yet. Those are the numbers that are really going to strain our healthcare system.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: Meantime, a new government watchdog report finds, quote, "severe widespread shortages of critical supplies across the country adding to the strain." And the report says those shortages are making it harder for hospitals to test and protect their staff.

[23:15:03]

The government adding new travel restrictions for all cruise ship passengers and crew arriving in the U.S. No longer allowed on commercial flights and subject to a mandatory 14-day quarantine.

A third passenger from Macquarie Princess now docked in Miami has died. In New Jersey, a mother and ICU doctor is recovering from the virus anxious to hold the children she wasn't sure she'd see again. Dr. Julie John even made them a good-bye video.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JULIE JOHN, ICU DOCTOR: I wanted to tell my kids that they are the most important thing in the world to me. I love you and I want to be there. But I can't. but be amazing, be nice. And then I just -- that's the most important thing. Right? When you're -- when you can't breathe, I think of my children and how I can say good-bye in the best way.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: Don, we should point out it isn't just New York patients who can now be treated on board the Comfort. Patients from New Jersey could go there as well.

Governor Phil Murphy saying that he received a call from the White House today letting him know his request to send some patients there had been granted.

Back to you, Don.

LEMON: All right, Erica Hill, thank you very much.

And now I want to update you on my friend and colleague Brooke Baldwin. Well, she said, she announced that she had a coronavirus last week. So, I have been speaking not to her because she is resting, but to her husband James.

And James has been keeping me updated and James says she is doing just fine. She is resting at home. They are checking all of her vital signs. Everything appears to be OK right now. As normal as it can be under the circumstances.

So, there you see her with her little pooch Pugsley (Ph) who we love. And so, if you want to check on her go to her Instagram. But Brooke is doing fine. She can't wait to get back on television and be healthy and happy. And she's -- so she'll be back soon. So, we are checking on her and we're sending you love and she feels the love as well. So, get better, Brooke. We love you.

In the meantime, the president touting an unproven treatment for the coronavirus. But just wait until you hear who is giving him medical advice. Next.

[23:20:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: So, we have some new insight tonight on the why the president is pushing an unproven treatment for coronavirus patients. The Washington Post is reporting that Fox News host Laura Ingraham and two doctors who are regular guests on her show met with the president on Friday.

They pitched him on the benefits of the antimalarial drug hydroxychloroquine. Experts say there isn't enough clinical data to show its effective for coronavirus and it has some serious side effects.

So, joining me now CNN Chief Media Correspondent, Brian Stelter and Dr. Jonathan Reiner, Dick Cheney's cardiologist and director of the Cardiac Catherization program at the George Washington University Hospital. Thank you -- Cardiac Catheterization at the George Washington Hospital -- University Hospital program. So, Brian -- good evening, gentlemen. Brian, I'm going to start with

you. Because this drug is unproven as a treatment for coronavirus. It could show some promise. It could. I mean, if it works then that would be wonderful. But it's the doctors who should decide this. This is not, you know, his media allies who should be deciding this.

BRIAN STELTER, CNN CHIEF MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: Right. There are lots of anecdotes, really important anecdotes that might point the way forward. But there is not the kind of wealth of evidence that experts and doctors need to see.

And Dr. Anthony Fauci made that very clear. But President Trump needs to promote this drug because he's hearing about it from his friends and his allies on Fox News.

And tonight's Washington Post report is quite disturbing because it shows that Fox is a real pipeline for the president about medical advice. Laura Ingraham and two regulars on Ingraham show visited the White House last week to hype this drug.

An in the meantime, Don, people like my wife who need this drug. My wife has rheumatoid arthritis so she uses Plaquenil, which is a brand version of this drug, to keep her symptoms under control. People like my wife need this drug and they are worried about shortages because there's always hype on Fox News about the drug. That's why these matters in the short term.

LEMON: So, doctor, let me ask you, because I'm old enough to remember the AIDS epidemic. The start of the AIDS epidemic. The early part of the AIDS epidemic when they were testing all kinds of drugs, when AZT and then on and on and on.

And so, if this drug works, more power to it, I mean, you know, so I don't want to give. But you don't want to give people false hope. The information should be coming from the doctors. I don't think it's a president's place to be touting this drug. But you don't want to poopoo a drug, lots of drug were tested for clinical trials. Just because it's one among hundreds doesn't mean it's not the one that it's not the legitimate.

JONATHAN REINER, CARDIOLOGIST, GEORGE WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY HOSPITAL: Sure.

LEMON: But what do you -- what do you -- what do you say to this?

REINER: Yes, I would say a resident during the early years of the AIDS crisis and it was a really dark time. There were no therapeutics. And people were just dying every single day. So, I really understand on a very visceral level the yearning for a therapeutic to help people.

LEMON: Right.

REINER: But this drug has been around for a long time. And it's been evaluated, actually it was evaluated years ago for HIV for something called dengue fever, for something called chikungunya fever. And even though in high doses in test tubes for some of these viruses it did appear to have significant antiviral activity, when trialed in vivo in human beings, the drug was disappointing.

[23:25:01]

And in fact, even with some suggestion that in chikungunya fever it might be harmful. So, you know, we know that drugs where there are anecdotal responses or even promising of benchtop trials can fail when you study it actually in a human being. We need to -- we need the data. And we'll get the data.

LEMON: So, when the president says what do you have to lose? What's your answer to that? Because we understand that among the effects of hydroxychloroquine is there can -- it can have an effect on the heart.

REINER: Yes. So, I'm a cardiologist and there is a specific lethal cardiac arrythmia that in a small number of people but in a definite proportion of people with a particular underlying cardiac abnormality this drug can cause a fatal arrythmia. A sudden fatal arrythmia.

So, it -- this is not, you know, a vitamin which -- maybe it will help, you know, it really can't hurt you. This is a real drug with real toxicities, if it works --

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: I think it's important, I think what's important that people should, and listen everyone -- because what they're saying what the people who are touting this drug is saying, this drug has been around forever, and so therefore they know that it's a good drug.

REINER: Yes.

LEMON: But just because it works for one thing doesn't mean that it's not going to have a side effect for another treatment. Is that where you're going with this, doctor?

REINER: Yes. Exactly. And here's the other thing, just because you know how to use it for something like rheumatoid arthritis it doesn't mean that we know how to use it for something like this virus.

So, for instance, do you start this in very mild asymptomatic patients very early or is it better to start them once they get sicker? What dose of the drug do you use? How long do you use it in? Who should you not use it in? Right?

LEMON: Yes.

REINER: So, there are all kind -- there are all kinds of issues. And this is what clinical trials help us understand. How to use a drug like this safely.

Your prior guest in the last segment mentioned that, you know, look, this is really a marathon. We think we're sprinting but this is a marathon.

LEMON: Yes. REINER: The prior pandemic came in three phases. The actual second wave was even more lethal. So, we're going to need all our weapons, you know, throughout this whole process. So, let's figure out if this works and how best to use it. And if it does, let's get it everywhere. If it doesn't, let's move onto to something more promising.

LEMON: I've got to go. Yes. But let's do it the right way. No one is saying that. No is saying that this isn't the right drug. But let's do it the right way.

Thank you both. I appreciate it. We'll be right back.

REINER: My pleasure.

[23:30:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: The rollout of certain aspects of the $2 trillion rescue package passed by Congress to try to keep the economy afloat has been anything but smooth. Small business owners have been struggling all weekend to get applications submitted for the loans as part of the Payback Protection Program.

So let's get the very latest now from Richard Quest, CNN's business editor-at-large, and CNN Congressional Correspondent, Phil Mattingly. Good evening, gentlemen. I appreciate it. Phil, I'm going to start with you. It has been, what, four days since the small business administration launched their Paycheck Protection Program? But so far, it's a disaster for the business owners who are trying to use it.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN U.S. CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, Don. The way one administration official who was actually working on this put it to me is they're essentially trying to build the spaceship as they're traveling to Mars and they're not totally sure what the blueprint is actually supposed to be here.

Look, put it in context. This is a $350-billion program that basically the small business administration guarantees. Banks are allowed to allocate those loans, give out those loans to the small businesses. And so all this is happening over the course of seven days. It is something that simply hasn't been done before. I think that's been proven out over the course of the last several days.

You talk about the small businesses desperate for cash, facing the very real possibility of not being able to survive another week or two weeks or three weeks. What they have run into is a myriad of problems, banks that aren't willing to accept their applications, no clear guidelines on what those applications would be.

Now, to be clear, $40 billion, I am told, have been booked up to this point. They expect it to be smoother in the days and weeks ahead. But again, the urgency surrounding this program has certainly caused a lot of issues as the volume has been so enormous over the course of these last four days.

LEMON: And Phil, it's not just the application process that's been a problem. Even the lenders are unsure of who meets the guidelines to qualify.

MATTINGLY: Yeah. This is actually probably been the biggest issue. I have been talking to bankers, big banks, the largest banks, J.P. Morgan, City Group, Bank of America, all of them are trying to participate, haven't been able to scale up the way they wanted to. And part of the reason why is they haven't had full guidelines as to what this program is actually going to be.

In fact, Don, just 45 minutes ago, the Treasury Department just released updated guidelines. This is four days into the program. Underscoring the fact that the banks didn't exactly know how they were supposed to operate. Banks operate uncertainty. If they don't have certainty, they are wary of lending money, even when it's government- guaranteed money that is all forgivable to some extent.

There's another issue, too. The small business administration, the system it uses for banks to actually upload these loans, get these loans into the system, has crashed continuously over the course of the last several days. All of these issues on the tech side and on the guidance side are being worked on or being massaged. They are getting a lot of pressure from lawmakers who helped draft this to get this going.

[23:35:00]

MATTINGLY: They recognize this is a central piece of the $2.2 trillion package that has to work. But right now, they are still running into issues.

LEMON: Richard, I want to bring you in, because the money that has been made available to small businesses is expected to run out at some point. So, any delay in getting an application process could end up being costly for the small businesses.

RICHARD QUEST, CNN INTERNATIONAL BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Indeed because the plan is, also by the small business administration, that it is first come, first serve. Now, one can expect that the administration would make more funds available if it was badly needed. But at the moment, you are basically trying to push your way to the front of the line because those that get there might get the money.

I'm not at all surprised, by the way, to hear what Phil is saying about the confusion and the difficulty that is being experienced. The sheer number of applicants on a new untried, untested system, that's being done in extremist and in -- if you're like gone into battle in anger.

It really doesn't surprise me that there are these tremendous teething problems that need to be sorted out because the urgency is small businesses have cash going out the front door in terms of rent and payments and everything else. This money is vital. I think they will sort it out. I worry about those who don't get to the front of the line and those who don't make it in time.

LEMON: Yeah. But Richard, sorting it out, I mean, you think they'll sort it out, but every -- really, every minute that it takes to sort this out, I mean, these guys are hanging with a thread, the small businesses. They don't have any money coming in. So the longer it takes to sort it out, it's a threat to them going out of business altogether.

QUEST: Right. But I think you have to distinguish between whether it's incompetence that is preventing this from happening or just the sheer size and scale of it that it was inevitable it was going to be like that. Now, that does not matter a jot to the small business owner, who is watching me tonight, in despair that they can't get the money. The best hope is that their creditors are also being understanding. It's a full on hope in many cases.

LEMON: All right. Phil and Richard, thank you so much. I appreciate it. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:40:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: We have some new reporting in that I want everyone to sit and take a listen to, and it is a stark warning that came in to the White House in January. It is being reported by Maggie Haberman of The New York Times, and we are working to get Maggie or a reporter to talk about this on the phone. So I'm just going to go over it. Again, this is breaking news in to CNN.

This is the report. It says, "Trade adviser warned White House in January of risks of a pandemic." This is a memo from Peter Navarro, who said, "Failure to contain the coronavirus outbreak could lead to hundreds of thousands of deaths and trillions of dollars in economic losses." It is the most direct warning known to have circulated at the key moment among the top administration officials.

Again, this is being reported by The New York Times's Maggie Haberman. I'm just going to read some of it to you because I find this -- this reporting is striking. It is disturbing and it provides -- it gives you a look into the administration's thinking and what they were doing back in January when this coronavirus outbreak started to come to light.

It starts by saying, "A top White House adviser starkly warned the Trump administration officials in late January that the coronavirus crisis could cost the United States trillions of dollars and put millions of Americans at risk of illness or death."

Again, this is The New York Times. It says, "The warning was written in a memo by Peter Navarro, President Trump's trade adviser, in the highest level alert known to have circulated inside the west wing as the administration was taking its first substantive steps to confront a crisis that had already consumed China's leaders and would go on to upend life in Europe and the United States." The report by Maggie Haberman goes on to say and it starts with a quote here, "The lack of immune protection or an existing cure or vaccine would leave Americans defenseless in the case of a full-blown coronavirus outbreak on U.S. soil." Mr. Navarro's memo said, "This lack of protection elevates the risk of the coronavirus evolving into a full-blown pandemic, imperilling the lives of millions of Americans."

As I read from Maggie Haberman's report in The New York Times which says, "Trade adviser warned White House in January of risks of a pandemic," and then it goes on to say that the memo was dated January 29, it came during a period when Mr. Trump was playing down the risks of the United States -- to the United States, and he would later go on to say that no one could have predicted such a devastating outcome. He is still saying that right now.

[23:44:57]

LEMON: But again, January 29 is when the memo was dated, during the time that the president was playing down the risks of the United States even though this warning was written in a memo to Peter Navarro in the highest level alert known to have circulated inside the west wing.

Maggie Haberman joins us now with the -- to talk to us about this report that she -- that just was released and that she filed earlier this evening. Maggie, this is in-depth reporting and it is very disturbing, this memo by Peter Navarro.

MAGGIE HABERMAN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT FOR THE NEW YORK TIMES (via telephone): Don, thanks for having me. Yeah, this memo was dated January 29, the same date that the task force, the first version of the Coronavirus Task Force, was appointed and met after President Trump convened it.

And it issued a pretty stark warning. You know, it was around the notion of whether there should be a travel ban from China. And a lot of people, I think, got stuck seeing it through that lens because Peter Navarro, the president's trade adviser, is a notorious China hawk.

But what he detailed is the economic toll on the country and the loss of life that could take place in the country in various scenarios of other containment, aggressive containment or no containment, and either scenario was bad for the U.S.

What it points to, at least this memo was circulated pretty widely within the west wing, we don't know whether the president saw it, Peter Navarro declined to get back to us, but it does indicate that at the upper level of the government, at least some officials were aware in late January that something bad could be coming to the U.S. at a time when the president is downplaying it.

LEMON: Well, the president is saying no one could have predicted this, he keeps saying that, but his own trade adviser predicted it. HABERMAN (via telephone): His own trade adviser predicted it. His own trade adviser warned that there could be serious ramifications for the U.S. if more was not done. He compared the novel coronavirus to previous pandemic viruses around the globe. He talked about why it was a potential threat.

And again, he went over, you know, in terms of the loss of life estimate. He went over the potential cost. He put the cost in the trillions of dollars. As we know, we are now in the trillions of dollars of economic burden caused by the attempts to deal with the coronavirus. Again, it is just going to raise questions about who saw the memo, what they made of it, whether the president was aware of it.

Again, I do think that it's important to note that a number of people who were familiar with what was taking place at the time argue that in hindsight it looks clearer than what the arguments were at the time based upon, you know, available evidence from doctors and based on the fact that Peter Navarro and another official from the National Security Council were both often talking about China's bad behavior in their eyes and wanting to deal with that.

I think that was the lens through which people took this. As it turns out, Peter Navarro was pretty pressed on (ph).

LEMON: Maggie Haberman, I want you to stand by because there are a lot of ramifications to your new reporting. We're going to get that after a quick break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:50:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Here is our breaking news. The New York Times is reporting tonight that Peter Navarro, the president's trade adviser, warned in late January that the coronavirus could cost this country trillions of dollars and put millions of Americans at risk of illness or death.

Times's Maggie Haberman is back with us. She is the one who filed this report. Maggie, thank you so much. Maggie, the president is saying this could not have been predicted. This memo says otherwise. Not sure if the president saw the memo, but it was circulated in January around the administration.

HABERMAN (via telephone): That's right, Don. Look, it began by Peter Navarro writing it, as we understand it, sending it to the National Security Council. And from there, it was broadcast out more broadly around the administration. And a number of people, as we understand it, did see it. How closely they read it, whether the president saw it, these are all questions that we don't know the answers to --

LEMON: Would it be hard to believe that the president -- I mean, from his own trade advisor, that the president wouldn't see a memo like this? I don't know. I'm not at the White House. I don't report there. But what do you think?

HABERMAN (via telephone): There's not a typical process at this White House. There hasn't been for, frankly, almost the entirety of the administration. So it is certainly believable that he didn't see it. The question is how many other people saw it and how widely it was talked about.

Navarro is viewed with skepticism by a number of his colleagues because of some of his trade positions, because he is so singularly focused on China and has been for a long time. That was how people assumed he was seeing this, as another threat from China, as opposed to him sort of looking at evaluating the various possibilities here for what could happen in the U.S. if this spread.

And, again, he was not the only person who was warning of this. The chief deputy of the National Security Council was also concerned. They were -- they were in the minority.

LEMON: Mm-hmm. Maggie, also in your -- in your reporting, something that has been -- that really gnaws at me is when the president talks about this travel ban which really wasn't a travel ban. It was a travel restriction, saying he acted early on.

It talks about Peter Navarro wanted something that was much more comprehensive, and you say the travel limit subsequently imposed by Mr. Trump did not entirely ban travel from China and many travellers from country continue to stream into the United States.

[23:55:03]

LEMON: Go ahead, Maggie.

HABERMAN (via telephone): That's right. Look, the Times's report in the last couple days actually revealed the breadth of the flights from China that have continued to come in despite instituting this restriction on travel.

To be clear, look, he was heavily criticized at the time when he did, something he talks about quite frequently. There are people who say that they think this is a draconian measure that may have been effective. But it was not complete and it was not even --

LEMON: Right.

HABERMAN (via telephone): -- close to what Peter Navarro was suggesting as the most extreme possibility in this memo. He talks about the potential of a full ban for 12 months in order to do the most extensive form of containment that could be done. That's obviously not what happened.

LEMON: Well, Maggie Haberman, I have to get off here now, but thank you so much. Maggie Haberman reporting -- her report in The New York Times, trade advisor warned White House in January of risks of a pandemic. Look to The New York Times for that reporting, also tomorrow morning on "NEW DAY." Thanks for watching, everyone. Our coverage continues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)