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Don Lemon Tonight

President Trump Wants To Re-open U.S. Economy By May; Acting U.S. Navy Secretary Thomas Modly Resigned; All Health Care Workers Must Be Tested; Hot Weather Doesn't Make Virus Disappear; U.S. Coronavirus Death Toll Surpasses 14,700 But New Cases Are Trending Down; President Trump Claims Voting By Mail Ripe For Fraud, Which Is False And He Voted By Mail Himself. Aired 10-11p ET

Aired April 08, 2020 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[22:00:00]

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST: Those are the kinds of questions that we have to ask. It will be a hard Passover. It will be a hard Easter. But I hope that things, the ideas and the rationales that they did as rooted as much in our collective faith in each other as they do in our particular faith traditions. We need this dark spirit to pass over our homes. We need to see the purpose even in pandemic-level pain. We need rebirth and renewal to get to a better place.

My prayer is that on some level the pandemic is purifying and that while we are being denied the intimacy of being with our families during times that usually matter the most, that this isolation will make us remember what matters most, to value it more, value that intimacy more and better. And take us to our best days together to come. That is my prayer for us all.

But at the end of the day, I only control what I do, and I promise this pandemic has changed so much about me. And that I hope I will be better for it, and I pray the same for you. I love you. And thank you.

Thank you for watching as well. "CNN TONIGHT" with D. Lemon starts right now. And I have a gift for you for Passover.

DON LEMON, CNN HOST: You do?

CUOMO: Yes.

LEMON: You going to tell me what it is? You going to show it?

CUOMO: Yes. Yes. Vaughn, show the picture that somebody made of me.

LEMON: You're crazy.

CUOMO: Do you see the picture?

LEMON: Yes, I see it.

CUOMO: This was made by a guy named Merritt who works with a friend of mine. He did this. And I knew you'd love it. And you know why I know you'd love it? LEMON: Why?

CUOMO: The legs.

LEMON: Because I always tease you about your legs.

CUOMO: Yes, which I am leg day. I don't understand the skinny legs, although that is what they look like now.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: You got --

CUOMO: I am not looking good.

LEMON: You got skinny legs. I keep telling you that. You don't believe me. You got a big upper body and skinny legs.

CUOMO: Right now -- it's really not true. It is true right now. But I thought you'd enjoy that.

LEMON: That's good.

CUOMO: Although Christina -- Christina will get mad at me. There is no Gatorade. I had no Gatorade. She doesn't believe it in.

LEMON: She just texted me. I send her a text, I said, quick, you have an embarrassing pic of Chris for the handoff from childhood. And she said, no, they were in the city so we were plotting but it didn't work out.

CUOMO: Nice.

LEMON: Yes. You were talking about Passover. And it's true. Because I was sending, you know, all my Jewish friends texts saying happy Passover, happy Passover. And one of them said, you know what, Don, we are living the story of plagues and pestilence right now. And it's absolutely true, we really are. You know, that's the obvious.

And I was thinking about that on the way in. I was doing -- some people were doing zoom. I was doing house party with about eight or ten -- eight of my friends on house party. We were doing Passover. So they were eating their matzah ball soup, and doing the thing and I was in the car on the way into work. And it was sundown.

And we were all some were in Florida, some were in New York, some were in L.A. And we were just all over the country and we were just talking about it, and although we weren't together physically, we were together as friends emotionally, and I just thought it was a great time -- I'll put it up on social media later, but I took a big screen shot of it.

So, we, you know, there is a way to be together, even if you can't be together physically, and I think it's great that it is going to change you, and I think it's going to change a lot of people -- I'll let you talk about that, but also I have an idea I'm going to text Christina. I think like this weekend maybe we should do a zoom brunch or something where we can actually get together and have Easter or some sort of brunch maybe on Sunday or do something. I don't know. You're probably doing something with your family. But maybe we should do that.

CUOMO: You are my family.

LEMON: Yes, I know.

CUOMO: So, whatever we're doing, you're invited. Although, of course, I won't be. So, you're actually more invited than I am because --

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: You're an outcast right now.

CUOMO: -- nobody will come near me. But, look, you know, that's OK, man, you know?

LEMON: Yes.

CUOMO: The path is what it is. And I'm just lucky for each day.

LEMON: I'm so glad you're feeling better. I'm so glad. When you said that, it just, it perked me up. I got like a little teary. Don't tell anybody, don't tell Chris Cuomo I said that. I'm so happy you're feeling better.

CUOMO: Listen, your strength is your sensitivity.

LEMON: I know. Don't tell anybody that. Anyway, I sent you as many -- so many people -- every day they're sending me, tell Chris, tell Chris. I'm sick of being the de facto Cuomo brother. I am not a Cuomo. I sent you as many texts today as possible early this morning.

So, the more I get in, the more -- I mean, everybody, look, I mean, Iyanla Vanzant, Bryant Gumbel, Katie Couric, everybody, it's like, tell Chris. Tell Chris. What's his number? What's his number? I mean, everyone. I mean, you know, the judge over at Fox. Everybody is sending, like, former friends of yours from childhood who don't have your number anymore. Anyway, it's great. I don't mind it. I'm joking.

CUOMO: It is humbling and it's empowering.

LEMON: Yes.

CUOMO: And I appreciate it so deeply.

LEMON: All right.

CUOMO: I know you got a lot of news. I love you. I'll talk to you.

LEMON: See you later. Feel better. Talk to you tomorrow, sir, if not before.

This is CNN TONIGHT. I'm Don Lemon. [22:04:59]

Our breaking news deaths. Coronavirus deaths are rising and they are rising sharply even as new cases are starting to level off.

More than 14,700 deaths reported tonight, over 431,000 confirmed cases, more than 1,800 deaths reported, and that is just today. And researchers say the highest daily number of deaths could come on or around this Sunday, but even with cases rising, with deaths rising, there is a glimmer of good news on the horizon. Social distancing, it may be working. That's good news.

Projections from the University of Washington in Seattle suggest 60,415 people could die from the coronavirus by August, but -- I know that's terrible, but that is down from an estimate just yesterday of 82,000 people.

But that result depends on strict social distancing through August. Where schools and businesses will remain closed. That's just one model. One projection. And every single death is a tragedy. But the message to take from that projection, the message to take from that, the thing to remember is that if you're staying home, if you're practicing social distancing, you're doing the right thing.

We're also learning tonight that new hotspots are popping up in Philadelphia and the D.C./Baltimore area. That as a prestigious scientific panel has warned the White House that the coronavirus won't likely go away when the weather gets warmer, as the president has suggested.

And in the face of all of that, a big change in the president's tone today. Yes, he still wants to open the country up with a big -- what he calls a big bang, but he also admits that he is listening to the experts.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So, what specifically has to happen for you to feel it's safe to re-open the country and what is your plan to do that?

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Well, I think we can say that we have to be on that downside of that slope and heading to a very strong direction that this thing is gone. We could do it in phases. We can go to some areas, which you know, some areas are much less affected than others, but it would be nice to be able to open with a big bang, and open up our country or certainly most of our country. I think we're going to do that soon.

You look at what's happening, I would say we're ahead of schedule. Now you hate to say it too loudly because all of a sudden, things don't happen, but I think we will be sooner rather than later. But we'll be sitting down with the professionals, we'll be sitting down with many different people and making a determination and those meetings will start taking place fairly soon.

(END VIDEO CLIP) LEMON: And CNN is learning that his aides are beginning to --

beginning intensive talks to try to re-open the economy as soon as the beginning of May, even though those projections we just talked about, projections that more than 60,000 Americans could die by August are based on strict social distancing until August. The projection could change if we re-open the country too soon.

And then there's what the president says about hydroxychloroquine. The unproven drug that he has been touting as a possible treatment for the coronavirus. Saying what had been, you know, what have you got to lose? And even suggesting that he'd take it himself. Again, a drug that is unproven.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: We're distributing the hydroxy all through the country. It's being distributed in large amounts. We have it coming in now. We were up to 29 million doses then we went to 30 million doses, but we have it coming in all throughout the country, and much of it's being distributed. In fact, it will start going down, what we have in our stockpile.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But the only --

(CROSSTALK)

TRUMP: And, again, it's had -- you know, I hope it works. Again, I'm not a doctor, as you possibly have found out. I'm not a doctor, but I'm a person with common sense.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: He is not a doctor. Listen, everyone hopes it works. Everyone wants a cure for this. But tonight, some doctors are raising a red flag about hydroxychloroquine and the antibiotic Azith -- let me say that again. Azithromycin. Excuse me for that.

They say that patients with existing cardiovascular disease may be at risk of potentially serious heart arrhythmias if they take those drugs, which is exactly why drugs like these need to be thoroughly tested.

I want you to listen to what he said. This is about reports today that his own intelligence community was warning of - warning of the spread of the coronavirus all the way back in November of 2019. Reports the defense intelligence agency is now denying.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ABC is reporting that your intelligence community was warning about the virus as early as November and produced a detailed report about the outbreak in China. When did you first learn about the intelligence and could you have acted on it then?

[22:09:58] TRUMP: Well, I learned when I started -- when I learned about the gravity of it was sometime prior to just closing the country to China, and when we closed up the flights coming in from China and various other elements. And then as you know we closed up to Europe, so I don't know exactly, but I'd like to see the information.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Remember it wasn't a full ban. The president put travel restrictions on China in early February. The fact is he did not close the country to China. He made exemptions for immediate family members of American citizens and permanent residents. And American citizens themselves were free to go back and forth. That is by no means a shutdown.

And as for the president's claim that only -- he learned only about the seriousness of the virus around that time, well, we know his trade adviser Peter Navarro wrote not one but two memos about it in January, at least one of them addressed to the president.

"The Washington Post" reports the president ignored intelligence reports about the virus, also in January. And remember when he played the blame game last night, pointing the finger at the World Health Organization? He's at it again tonight.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The head of the World Health Organization today warned against politicizing --

(CROSSTALK)

TRUMP: I agree with him.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He said the consequence of politicization could actually create more body bags. That's a pretty vivid image. What -- what do you believe the consequence of the U.S. pulling out its funding of the WHO --

(CROSSTALK)

TRUMP: I think when you say more body bags, I think we would have done -- and he would have been much better serving the people that he's supposed to serve if they gave a correct analysis.

I mean, everything was -- I said China-centric. Everything was going to be fine. No human-to-human. Keep the borders open. He wanted me to keep the borders open. I closed the borders despite him, and that was a hard decision to make at the time.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: He actually says he closed the border to spite the head of the WHO, and as discussed, the fact is he didn't close -- close the borders. And then there's this exchange about the president's false claim that voting by mail, even in the midst of the coronavirus crisis, leads to voter fraud. Even though he, himself, voted by mail in Florida's primary just last month.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JIM ACOSTA, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: I want to get back to something you were saying yesterday about people going to Wisconsin and voting.

TRUMP: Yes.

ACOSTA: In the middle of this pandemic. I mean, really putting their lives on the line and you said, well, if they do that, vote by mail, perhaps we'll have voter fraud in this country.

I just wanted to ask you, voters in five states, Utah, Colorado, Hawaii, Washington and Oregon all vote by mail. Can you or the White House staff or your campaign provide any evidence to back up your claim that mail-in voting is rife with fraud like the example you gave of people working in rooms filling out false ballots.

TRUMP: Yes, sure.

ACOSTA: You've been talking about it since the beginning of this administration.

(CROSSTALK)

TRUMP: Well, what happened -- what happened -- yes, very fair.

ACOSTA: And where is the evidence for it?

TRUMP: The, I think there's a lot of evidence, but we'll provide you with some, OK? And this evidence is being compiled just like it's being compiled in the State of California where they settled with Judicial Watch, saying that one million people should not have been voting -- you saw that.

ACOSTA: All I ask you, sir --

(CROSSTALK)

TRUMP: Wait, excuse me, I'm just telling you. I'm telling you in California, in the great state of California, they settled and we could have gone a lot further. Judicial Watch settled. Where they agreed that a million people should not have voted where they were 115 years old and lots of things and people were voting in their place. What I see and, you know, every one of those states that you mentioned is a state that happens to be won by the Democrats.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: That is the tell right there. Every state you mentioned was won by Democrats. That's what the president is really worried about. That's why he was at it again. Tweeting about it after the briefing. Claiming voting by mail is ripe for fraud.

He's lying about that. Multiple studies for years have found that voter fraud is extremely rare in this country. And millions of people vote by mail, including, as I said, the president himself. Those elections overseen by both Republican and Democratic state officials with no systematic problems, and voting by mail is one way to protect American voters during this crisis. So, they don't have to choose between their votes and their health.

And there is another piece of news today that you really got to hear. You remember the acting secretary of the navy, Thomas Modly, resigned last night after he set off a firestorm with his speech to the crew of the USS Theodore Roosevelt in Guam, slamming their former commander and calling him stupid for writing a memo sounding the alarm about a coronavirus outbreak on his ship.

[22:15:03]

A navy official estimates Modly's trip to Guam cost the Defense Department almost a quarter of a million dollars. It also cost him his job.

Let's bring in now CNN's White House Correspondent, Kaitlan Collins.

Kaitlan, good evening to you. Let's talk about the president. He says he thinks that the U.S. is, in his words, ahead of schedule in the efforts to slow down the spread of the coronavirus. So, talk to me about this timeframe, because we are also hearing warnings about potential new hot spots in cities like Philadelphia, D.C., Baltimore.

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, and the main concern we're hearing from the health experts on the president's team is that if you let up too early then you're going to shut the economy down again, put these strict measures back in place, so they are trying to find out a delicate balance here essentially.

Because the president wants the country re-opened. He wants the economy re-opened, and increasingly, he's focusing on this idea of opening it up all at once, instead of doing certain geographic areas. That's something the president has mentioned not only publicly but privately on several occasions.

But, Don, what's still not really clear is what it's going to look like after April 30th, after these social distancing guidelines that they've put in place are going to run out. What exactly they're going to do then. If it's going to open up on May 1st or if May is going to be more of a slow transition month, which is what you've heard that the health experts are pushing for, something a little bit slower like that.

But the vice president had an interview tonight. He was asked about that. He did not really clarify exactly what they're picturing for May 1st, what that's going to look like, though there are discussions right now because the president has made pretty clear what his position on this is.

LEMON: The president wants to re-open the economy with a big bang, he says, and what sorts of plans are being discussed to prepare for that? I mean, does that include more testing, Kaitlan? COLLINS: Well, you would think it would have to. That is what you've

heard from several officials who have talked about what it would look like if people start going back to work, how you could know who could be the people going back to which, which kind of groups, and a lot of the health experts that have been speaking with the president have said that testing would be a key factor in that, in addition to contract tracing. Something that does not seem round up to the point where they could start sending people back to work yet.

So those things are two really critical factors that they've been focusing on and they're going to issue new guidelines about people who can start going back to work.

Dr. Fauci said things of that nature, trying to get American life back to normal. But, Don, you've got to know that a lot of this is fluid because it wasn't that long ago the president was saying he wanted to have the country open by this Sunday. Obviously, they have blown past that.

The president backed off that date he presented without any evidence or data for why he was picking that date. So, they're trying to be really cautious, and you've noticed the president is not putting a date on when he wants the country re-opened right now. And sources we've spoken to have said that is the primary reason.

LEMON: Kaitlan Collins at the White House, thank you, Kaitlan. I appreciate that.

Dr. Deborah Birx making a startling admission tonight, saying every healthcare worker in the country could have been tested for the coronavirus if a specific testing machine had been running at capacity.

Here with the truth about testing, CNN's Drew Griffin. Drew, hello to you. Thank you for joining. Listen, I want you to listen to Dr. Birx talking about a testing machine made by the company Abbott. This is what she said. Here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DEBORAH BIRX, COORDINATOR, WHITE HOUSE CORONAVIRUS TASK FORCE: This is not sitting in a warehouse. These are physically in these laboratories sitting there right now.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The machines aren't running.

BIRX: They're not running. So, we've only run 88,000 tests in three weeks off of those machines with the million test kits. So as someone who has worked in a lot of laboratories, to have a machine that is needed -- because we could have screened every healthcare worker. These machines are every place in the country. So, they could have screened in these last three weeks 100 percent of the healthcare workers across the country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: So, Drew, walk us through this. How could this happen and what is Abbot telling you?

DREW GRIFFIN, CNN SENIOR INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT: Well, there is some sort of disconnect between what's happening at the White House and what Abbot and labs are telling us, quite frankly.

These machines are out there in the communities, and according to Abbot, it surveyed its customers after these remarks that she first made last night and said, their customers, their labs, they are using these machines and they are using them for COVID. The great majority of them.

So, I'm not sure where she is getting her information from. The few labs or actually the one lab that we found that is not using it for COVID is able to keep up with its own COVID-19 testing and needs this machine to test for other things that are coming up in the hospital, primarily this one hospital for HIV.

So, there are other needs that patients need tests for, but the idea that these machines, these M-2,000s which can do 470 tests a day, they're kind of a medium-range machine, are sitting idle is just false according to the manufacturer and according to the labs we contacted.

[22:20:01]

LEMON: What about this rapid test from Abbot? We're also hearing complaints about that.

GRIFFIN: Yes, this is a new test. It was the only one that has been approved right now as a rapid response test. And the company Abbot is behind it, too. It's meant to work with a machine that's already out there. This -- this machine that -- there's 18,000 of them. So, Abbot is developing the tests and shipping them out.

Tonight, we learned from the governor of New Hampshire that he's got machines but he has no test kits to go with it. Here's what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. CHRIS SUNUNU (R-NH): It's incredibly frustrating because there's a lot of talk about this device, there was a lot of hype on it nationally. That was wonderful. And then when they showed up, expectations were set really high, as they should be, but I actually have these, 13 of these devices and have no way to use them. I'm banging my head against the wall. I really am. It's really frustrating.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRIFFIN: And I think this is where the hype from the White House got ahead of the actual reality, which is Abbot is trying to pump these tests out, 190,000 they've sent since last Friday, 50,000 more a day, but the demand is so high that obviously New Hampshire didn't get its -- its share of these tests yet. It takes a while. Ramping up is what we've been hearing about for weeks and weeks and

weeks. That's what needs to happen. It needs to ramp up. You can't do this stuff overnight.

LEMON: CNN's Drew Griffin. Drew, thank you so much.

We've heard the president say the coronavirus will miraculously go away when the weather gets warmer. We're learning that a top doctor warns that they may not be true.

[22:25:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Before we get too far away from this, I said something that was wrong before the break when we played that sound bite talking about the WHO and the president closing the border.

The president actually said that he closed the border despite what the head of the WHO not in spite of that, so sorry about that. Listen, not to spite -- so sorry about that.

Now we have some breaking news that we want to say. A top scientific panel contradicting the president's claim that summer weather will slow the coronavirus. An expert committee of the National Academy of Sciences alerting the White House that it doesn't expect the virus to go away once the weather warms up.

Here to discuss, Dr. Harvey Fineberg, the chair of that committee. Doctor, thank you so much for joining. We appreciate it. So, your committee informed the White House the coronavirus won't go away with warmer weather. What did you tell them?

HARVEY FINEBERG, CHAIR, STANDING COMMITTEE ON EMERGING INFECTIOUS DISEASES: Specifically, Don, we told them that the evidence does not suggest any confidence that this virus will go away. There are laboratory studies and there are field studies and there is some evidence that this virus does diminish with more heat and humidity, but that doesn't explain a very large amount of the variation and the SARS virus and the MERS virus that were related to this one did not show any range by season.

So, if you're counting on a seasonal reduction, it's not a very safe bet.

LEMON: Yes. Because as they were saying that, it was raging in warm climates like Australia and other places as well, correct?

FINEBERG: Well, that's -- that's the point. You look at a place like Australia, it's in the summer. There was an interesting study within China looking at cities and, you know, it's a big country like ours that has cities that are relatively cold, relatively warm, subtropical, and in that study they did not find any connection between the extent and rate of spread and the exact location of the city climatically within China.

LEMON: Yes.

FINEBERG: You know, with the influenza virus, there have been 10 pandemics in the last 250 years. They've started in every season. Those pandemic years do not change with winter or summer or spring or fall.

They all showed a double wave. They had an interest in the first wave of cases, a decline and then came back up about six months later. Now the SARS coronavirus is not influenza, it's own thing, but everything we know would lead to us be very cautious about any expectation that this could be changed significantly by the season.

LEMON: So, doctor, how would you like to see the coronavirus task force use this information when it comes to national guidelines to contain this virus?

FINEBERG: The job of our task force, Don, is to provide scientifically sound evidence that the White House, the Department of Health and Human Services can take on board and use it in defining policy.

We all realize that policy choices stand on many, many considerations. The science is a very important part of it, but our job is to get the science right. Their job is to make the smart policies based on the science.

LEMON: All right, doctor, thank you so much. We appreciate you joining us. Thank you. I really appreciate that.

And, again, I just want to say that the president was talking about the WHO and why he closed the border. The president actually said that he closed the border despite the head of the WHO not to spite him. So, again, regret that error.

I just want to tell you make sure watch Anderson Cooper and Dr. Sanjay Gupta. They're going to host a live town hall, Coronavirus: Facts and Fears with special guest Magic Johnson. That is tomorrow at 8 Eastern right here on CNN, 10 p.m.

What exactly do we need to do to be able to re-open the country? We're going to take you inside that debate next.

[22:30:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Dr. Anthony Fauci warning Americans that the increase in the coronavirus death toll this week will be difficult to fathom. This comes as John Hopkins University is reporting the rate of new cases in the U.S. is trending downward.

So, I want to bring in Dr. Richard Besser, the former acting Director of the CDC. And Dr. Mark McClellan, the former commissioner of the FDA. Gentlemen, thank you so much. I appreciate both of you coming on and your expertise, of course. Dr. Besser, you first. We also see signs that the curve may be flattening. That is good news, of course, but we are still seeing death tolls rise in New York and potential new hot spots in other U.S. cities. In order for that to stay the case, how long do we need to keep these closures in the U.S.?

DR. RICHARD BESSER, FORMER ACTING DIRECTOR OF THE CDC: Well, you know, Don, I think in addition to the data we're seeing, there are a lot of data that we're not seeing. We're starting to hear more and more reports about this pandemic hitting different communities in different ways. There was a piece in the Atlantic two days ago that really called out the increased rate of infection and death among black Americans.

[22:35:00]

So, until we really understand how this is affecting different communities, I think it's really premature to think about letting up on the interventions that are currently being put in place to try and control this.

LEMON: Dr. McClellan, you and some of your colleagues over at Duke University are out with a new report on achieving containment of coronavirus through surveillance and testing. Talk to me about it because without a rapid detection of this virus, are we going to see more scenarios like New York?

DR. MARK MCCLELLAN, FORMER FDA COMMISSIONER: Well, Don, rapid detection is critical, and just to reinforce Dr. Besser's point, if we re-opened without taking any further steps to understand the virus and how to control it, there is no reason to think the outcome would be any different than another big surge in cases and we never want to see that happen again.

We can do it differently. Our testing capacity for diagnosing quickly, whether the virus is present and someone is infected is much higher than it used to be. We still have some serious work to do, though, to match up those tests with getting them to every community, including those hard-hit communities where we need rapid testing to make sure there is not ever a big outbreak like we've seen in the past weeks.

LEMON: So when you hear Dr. Birx say Philadelphia and Washington, D.C. could be the next hot spots, can that still be prevented?

MCCLELLAN: The cases -- the hospitalizations, the deaths that we're seeing now are a reflection of infections that spread before. So, there's a lag between when we see these upward trends and outbreaks and when that -- behind when we actually took the steps to distance and control future outbreaks.

So we need to wait a little while until we make sure that those cases are solidly on the downward trend, that they're not going to threaten the capacity of our health care system, and while we're doing that, that's the time to get in place a much bigger capacity to do rapid testing to prevent outbreak from spreading again.

LEMON: Dr. Besser, I'm not sure anyone knows what the new normal is going to look like, but, you know, if -- from what you can sort of guess here, what will it look like when the country eases up on social distancing? Will things transition slowly? Will restaurants start to open up? But, I mean, with fewer tables? Give me some concrete examples, if you can, of what this could look like.

BESSER: Well, you know, I think Mark hit it squarely where things need to be. Until we have the capacity to really understand where this is spreading, the idea of letting off all of these controls is a really big mistake. There are many communities that are not even in the early days of this. And they will likely see a lot of disease. And so until we have the ability to track cases, to do contract -- contact tracing, to understand how a disease is spreading through different communities, the idea of imagining what it will look like when this comes to an end or when we start to release some of the social distancing measures, it's way too mature -- too premature for that.

LEMON: Yes. And Dr. McClellan, what about -- I think people are going to -- it's going to be a weird transition for people to actually go back to normal, to go back to work, to leave their families. People were talking about, oh, you know, in the beginning, I'm not going to be, you know, I'm not going to work. I think it's going to be a transition actually going back to whatever normal is. But what about when parents start going back to school? A lot of school districts have closed through their academic year. How will that sort of thing complicate getting the economy and the country back up and running?

MCCLELLAN: I think as Dr. Besser said, it's going to be a step-wise process. So, you're seeing businesses take steps now to separate workers more, to give them protection against spreading the virus, and with more testing in place, I wouldn't be surprised if we see people who are starting shifts at nursing homes or going into health care facilities being tested before their actual shifts.

That along with getting tests out into the community -- and, again, we have a lot more tests available now. It's a question of matching those tests up with where they're most needed, understanding how much infection has existed and does exist in different communities and matching that up with the ability to trace people who are positive, trace their contacts and contain the outbreak.

Those are the steps that we can be working on right now to get to a point where people can start going back to work under modified conditions and where we can start thinking about new ways of getting kids back in school with accounting for the fact that we're in a new normal for a while.

LEMON: I think we can all agree it's going to be really interesting, the upcoming months and even years. It's going to be interesting to watch just to see how our lives are going to change going forward here. Thank you, doctors. I appreciate your time. We'll see you soon.

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MCCLELLAN: Thank you.

LEMON: Multiple governors desperate for supplies say they are frustrated. Why aren't they getting what they need and who's in charge of all of this anyway? Those answers aren't so clear. We're going to dig into it next.

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LEMON: The number of confirmed cases of coronavirus in the U.S. surging past 431,000 tonight. And governors are pleading with the federal government for more medical supplies. Yet the lack of federal coordination has many of them asking who's in charge? More tonight from CNN's Leyla Santiago.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SUSANA MENDOZA, (D) ILLINOIS STATE COMPTROLLER: The states have been told you're on your own, it's a wild, wild west.

GOV. GRETCHEN WITMER (D-MI): We are running dangerously low on PPE.

GOV. MARK GORDON (R-WY): Those supplies are being diverted by the federal government.

LEYLA SANTIAGO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Nearly a month after President Trump declared covid-19 a national emergency, states are still sounding the alarm on supply shortages and there's another frustration mounting among states.

[22:45:08]

Understanding whose taking charge of the federal response. FEMA has taken the lead coordinating role, but with FEMA's administrator, Pete Gainer largely out of the public view, one Congressional aide tells CNN, no one really knows who's in charge, who's making decisions.

JARED KUSHNER, SENIOR WHITE HOUSE ADVISER: We were briefing the president earlier. He asked me to come out and talk a little bit.

SANTIAGO: Trump's senior adviser and son-in-law Jared Kushner has taken a more prominent role in the federal response, at times taking charge unapologetically.

KUSHNER: I got a call from the president. He told me he was hearing from friends of his in New York that the New York public hospital system was running low on critical supply. Called up Admiral Polowczyk, made sure we had the inventory. We went to the president today, and earlier today the president called Mayor De Blasio to inform him that we were going to send a month of supply.

SANTIAGO: In a letter to FEMA's administrator, the House Oversight Committee is now questioning Kushner's involvement, stating in part, it appears that Mr. Kushner is unclear about basic facts, regarding the purpose of the strategic national stockpile. Kushner is one of many stepping in to respond to the unprecedented pandemic, including others, like Vice President Pence, Rear Admiral Polowczyk and FEMA administrator, Gainer.

FEMA provided this video showing how the chartered in more than a dozen overseas flights with supplies secured by private U.S. companies. Half of it goes to prioritized hot spots, they tell us. The other half goes to the private market. Now a source of frustration for states competing with others for the same supplies. MENDOZA: What's happening is that we're having to secure --

hopefully, if we're able to get our hands on product from China, from Australia, whether it's ventilators or PPE and we're paying six or seven times the price that we would.

SANTIAGO: As some states compete, others have turn to each other. California Governor Gavin Newsome sending 500 ventilators to fellow states including New York, New Jersey and Illinois. Its relief for some, progress for others, but with such uncertainty ahead, states continue to say it's not enough.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SANTIAGO: And Don, it's worth pointing out today the House Oversight Committee providing some insight on the Strategic National Stockpile. That's where Health and Human Services stores a lot of that medical equipment that so many states are desperately in need of right now. We reported last week that it was depleted, but today we're learning through the House Oversight Committee that only a portion, a fraction of the PPE and the medical equipment that first responders need right now have actually been distributed by the government and that that distribution was not based on states' requests.

LEMON: What do we know about the critical hot spots FEMA has prioritized, Leyla?

SANTIAGO: Right. We talked a little about that in our story and really we know that is based off of CDC data, but that's about it. We have repeatedly asked for a list, a map, some sort of indication of what these hot spots are that FEMA and HHS are prioritizing right now. But that information has not been released. To get a better idea of where the supplies coming in from overseas are now being distributed.

LEMON: Leyla Santiago, thank you very much.

Should people be able to vote by mail while the coronavirus rages on so they don't have to choose between their health and their votes? And why is the president against it? What this will all mean for your vote. Next.

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LEMON: The president today continuing his attacks on voting by mail in the face of the coronavirus pandemic, tweeting tonight, quote, absentee ballots are a great way to vote for the many senior citizens, military, and others who can't get to the polls on Election Day. These ballots are very different from 100 percent mail-in voting which is ripe for fraud and shouldn't be allowed.

Well, that claim is false. All evidence suggests voter fraud is extremely rare. But with many state primaries left and the 2020 election just months away, what will states do to protect voters?

Joining me now, CNN senior political analyst, Ron Brownstein. So glad to have you on, Ron. The president keeps making false claims about voter fraud with mail-in ballots this week. Is it because he thinks that everyone can vote easily if they can that he's going to lose?

RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST, AND SENIOR EDITOR OF THE ATLANTIC: Yes. Well, Republicans are going to move to a position of being more skeptical. The irony is that I've been covering presidential elections since 1984. From most of that period, Republicans have been more focused than Democrats on voting by mail. Democrats attended to focus more on the early votes. The souls to the polls, the Sunday before the elections.

What the president is really raging against is a very limited number -- five states have complete vote by mail. Every ballot -- every voter gets a ballot sent to them at home. None of those are states that are likely to be truly competitive in the election. In the states that are likely to decide the election, there is substantial availability of absentee balloting, no excuse absentee balloting. In some ways the president is fighting a war that's already been lost.

LEMON: Interesting. And you've been writing about this already, right.

BROWNSTEIN: Yes.

LEMON: Yes.

BROWNSTEIN: Yes, I mean, you know, what he's basically saying is he doesn't want to go -- he doesn't want other states to go to the point of mailing everybody a ballot and that may or may not happen. I mean, there may be some states that try to do that through kind of public health emergency grounds. But even if that doesn't occur in the six states that everybody pretty much agrees is going to decide this election, Arizona, Florida, North Carolina, and the Sunbelt, Michigan, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, and the Rustbelt.

[22:55:05]

In all six of those states you can now under current law, vote absentee with no excuse. You don't need a reason. And in fact, in Michigan and Pennsylvania that has only been added since the 2018 election. So, there is really -- o don't think anything he can do to prevent absentee balloting being available in the states where the election is most likely to be decided, what -- I think, they are going to draw the line at is trying to expand that to, again, mimicking those five states where everybody gets a ballot mailed directly to their House.

LEMON: Ron, our time is short but, you know, we love having you. Thank you so much. We appreciate that.

BROWNSTEIN: Thanks, Don.

LEMON: Johns Hopkins reporting new cases of coronavirus in the U.S. are trending down even as the death toll rises. We'll tell you more. That's next.

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LEMON: This is CNN Tonight. I'm Don Lemon. It's 11:00 p.m. on the East Coast. And here, this is the latest on the coronavirus pandemic. The number of cases of coronavirus nationwide has now surpassed --

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