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Don Lemon Tonight

President Trump Eager To Re-open Country's Economy; Majority Of Americans Expect Worse To Come; White House Wants More COVID Funding From Congress; California's Aggressive Action Pays Off; What California Is Doing Right In Responding To The Coronavirus Pandemic; NYT: Studies Show Most Of New York Coronavirus Cases Came From Europe; New Zealand Shuts Its Borders And Declares A Nationwide Shutdown To Battle Coronavirus; Passover Seders Go Virtual During Coronavirus Crisis. Aired 11p-12a ET

Aired April 08, 2020 - 23:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[23:00:00]

DON LEMON, CNN HOST: It's 11 p.m. on the East Coast.

And here, this is the latest on the coronavirus pandemic. The number of cases of coronavirus nationwide has now surpassed 1.5 million with more than 88,000 deaths around the globe. Here in the U.S., the number of confirmed cases has risen substantially in the last 24 hours to more than 431,000. The U.S. death toll now surpassing 14,700.

Dr. Anthony Fauci warning Americans that the increase in deaths this week from the virus will be -- will be, to use his word, sobering. And yet, there's encouraging news from Johns Hopkins University. It's reporting that the number of new cases in the U.S. is trending downward.

Plus, the University of Washington's reporting that the modeling shows fewer people will die from coronavirus than previously predicted. And Dr. Deborah Birx of the White House Coronavirus Task Force attributes that to social distancing, commending Americans for changing the way we're living our lives right now.

So, joining me now, CNN White House correspondent John Harwood. John, good evening to you, sir. Thank you so much for joining us tonight and every evening. We really appreciate it.

So, the president was asked tonight if the country can reopen on May 1st. Here's his answer.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: We're doing well in terms of the numbers. I can't tell you in terms of the date. You know, we don't want to -- we don't want to go down and then we -- it's not going up if we're not careful so we have to be careful.

As far as distancing, social distancing and other things, certainly for a while -- you know, at some point that's going away. We'll be able to sit next to each other like we have all our lives. (END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: The dynamic seems to be that the president is eager to open the country back up but experts, at least for now, they're sticking to their guns.

JOHN HARWOOD, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: They are sticking to their guns, and I think if you're somebody in this country which I think is a majority at the moment who is inclined to listen to the public health professionals, you're going to be happy with the tone the president struck today at his briefing.

Because what he said was, he resisted an invitation to embrace May 1 as an opening date and said we're going to listen to the experts. Obviously, this is a president who can't stick to a consistent message one day or the other. We had yes open by Easter, no, we'll stay closed through the end of the month debate that played out a few days ago.

And I would expect when we get to the end of April that debate is going to play out again. But at least for the moment the president today was resisting the urge to repeat his desire to open things up.

And the significance of that -- and I think we've talked about this before, Don -- most Americans aren't really listening to Donald Trump. But there's a significant minority who do listen to Trump. And the extent to which they take a message from the president of back off, that makes the collective effort to stop the spread by mitigation efforts less powerful.

So, I think today the president sent a message that would reinforce the mitigation efforts.

LEMON: John, the Attorney General Bill Barr addressing social distancing calling current measures draconian. This is what he said. He said, "I think they have been patient and I think we have to be very careful to make sure that the draconian measures that are being adopted are fully justified and they're not alternative ways of protecting people.

And I think when this period of time at the end of April expires, I think we have to allow people to adapt more than we have, not just tell people to go home and hide under the bed, but allow them to use other ways, social distancing and other means, to protect themselves."

And that was a quote from him. That's what he said during the briefing. The president saying, he will be sitting down with many different people to discuss how to reopen. But with so many different voices in the administration, so many people in his ear about, you know, ways to look at this, I mean should we expect to see more tension in the run up?

HARWOOD: Yes, I think we should. And I think that that is a striking statement by the attorney general who obviously has zero credentials to evaluate public health considerations. But he does --

(CROSSTALK) LEMON: And that was in an interview with Fox. I'm sorry. I thought that was in a briefing. Sorry. An interview with Fox. Sorry about that, John. Go on.

HARWOOD: Right. But that's fitting that it appeared on Fox because it reflects the sensibility of a lot of conservative who is have been arguing this whole thing is overhyped, we have been going too far, we -- government has been too intrusive in our lives.

Bill Barr is somebody who's made clear in his public remarks that his principle concern is a sense that conservative Christians are under siege. And so, I'm sure he is highly sensitive to the fact that church services are being put off in vast parts of the country, most of the country.

[23:05:06]

But, again, the question is do you listen to people who are concerned about considerations like that versus the public health considerations that Deborah Birx and Anthony Fauci and hospital workers around the country are voicing? And at least so far, those voices have prevailed. But it's going to be a battle. You're exactly right.

LEMON: John, the president once again lying about voter fraud in a coronavirus task force briefing. Here's what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: When you vote, you should have voter I.D. And if you send something in, you should be sure as a state and as a country, you should be sure that that vote is meaningful and it's not just made fraudulently. Because there's a lot of fraudulent voting going on in this country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: John, there's no evidence for that.

HARWOOD: There's not a lot of fraudulent voting that goes on in this country. Republicans have complained about that increasingly over the years as they have -- their position and public opinion has deteriorated.

This is a situation -- you were just talking with Ron Brownstein about this a few minutes ago. In most of the country -- in more than 30 states -- you can either vote entirely by mail or vote with no excuse absentee balloting.

And Ron pointed out that in the six swing states of the election, those are included among those more than 30 states. So, it has been established and embraced by both Democratic and Republican states that you can have widespread voting by mail with minimal fraud.

Fraud is almost non-existent in American elections as much as Republicans have been talking about it. In fact, the most notable example of voter fraud that we've seen in the last couple of years has been fraud by Republican campaigns in North Carolina in the House race where they were harvesting absentee ballots and filling them in. And we had an election overturned as a result of that.

But, look, this is an argument that Republicans have made. But the trend in American life is to make voting easier for more people. Republicans have resisted this. But I think over the long run, they're not going to prevail.

And I certainly think as you discussed with Ron, conditions are in place right now for widespread voting by mail in a way that will make it easier to get through whatever situation we're in with the pandemic in the fall.

LEMON: Yes, two things, the president has voted by mail, and the president set up a voter fraud commission that was disbanded because they could not find any evidence of widespread voter fraud.

Thank you very much, John Harwood. I appreciate your time.

HARWOOD: You bet.

LEMON: Tonight, the number of coronavirus cases in the U.S. stands at over 431,000. The death toll in this country climbing steadily towards 15,000.

Here's CNN's Erica Hill.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: Increase in new cases.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR & CORRESPONDENT: A blunt assessment from the top.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FAUCI: It's going to be a bad week for deaths.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: For the second day in a row, New York State announcing a new high for single day deaths. Seven hundred seventy-nine on Tuesday. With morgues overloaded, hard hit communities are bringing in refrigerated trailers and more help.

In New York City, hundreds of National Guard members and more than 50 active duty mortuary military specialists are now assisting the medical examiner's office. As states and cities report a rising death toll, there is some hope.

Projected deaths nationwide now expected to be closer to 60,000 by August, revise down significantly thanks to social distancing. The message from officials, this is no time to let up. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR BILL DE BLASIO (D-NY): We're all looking to finally get out from under this, but it's not that time yet. The progress confirms the strategy is working.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: The White House task force also zeroing in on several additional cities as potential hotspots including Washington, D.C., Baltimore, Philadelphia, and Houston.

New CNN polling reveals a majority of Americans feel the federal government has done a poor job preventing the spread. Eighty percent feel the worst is yet to come.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ASHISH JHA, DIRECTOR, HARVARD GLOBAL HEALTH INSTITUTE: More rural areas are starting to get hit, and I'm really worried because hospitals in those areas don't have as many ICU beds, don't have the same capacity.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: With each day there is also mounting evidence that the virus is impacting African-Americans at a much higher rate. Underserved communities also hit hard.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. ANDREW CUOMO (D-NY): Whatever the situation is, natural disaster, hurricane Katrina, the people standing on those rooftops were not rich white people. Why? Why is it that the poorest people always pay the highest price? Let's learn from this moment and let's learn these lessons, and let's do it now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[23:10:02]

HILL: New York Governor Andrew Cuomo said the state will increase testing and research in minority communities today to better understand the disparity.

Meantime, supply needs continue to be a concern across the country. G.M. announced it will produce 30,000 ventilators for the national stockpile costing nearly half a billion dollars. But those won't be delivered until the end of August.

Another concern, how and when to reopen the country? That conversation is starting with a focus on antibody testing to learn who was infected but asymptomatic.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) DEBORAH BIRX, COORDINATOR, WHITE HOUSE CORONAVIRUS TASK FORCE: This makes a very big difference in really understanding who can go back to work and how they can go back to work.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: Dr. Birx says those tests could be available in the next 10 to 14 days. Though in reality, there is no clear end date for this pandemic. Pennsylvania and New York following New Jersey's lead, flags lowered to half-staff in honor of the thousands lost to this virus.

Don, here at the Javits Center, 104 of the 2,500 available beds in the center behind me will being used for COVID positive patients. We also learned today that 470 additional beds will be available on Friday at the Billie Jean Jing National Tennis Center in queens.

Why so many unused beds? Well, the governor noted today that hospitalizations are down in the state. He said that's a good thing. And as for those unused beds, that it's good to have the preparation. Don?

LEMON: Thank you, Erica.

Nine hundred twenty-two deaths reported today, that's the highest number of deaths in a single day so far. And there's also the staggering economic toll. Six in 10 Americans in a new CNN poll now say the economy is in poor shape under the coronavirus. What will the impact be as the crisis stretches on for months?

[23:15:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: The coronavirus is slamming the economy with millions of new unemployment claims and businesses hanging by a thread really.

The new CNN poll finds only 39 percent say that they rate the current economy as good while 60 percent say they call it poor.

This, as tonight -- as tonight the Congress and the administration still trying to get assistance to the huge numbers of Americans who suddenly and unexpectedly need it.

Let me bring in now Lauren Fox, a CNN congressional reporter, and CNN political commentator Catherine Rampell. Good evening to both of you. Thank you so much for joining.

Catherine, I'm going to start with you. Talk about this new poll showing Americans views of the economy plunging 30 points and Trump's handling of it down by 6 points since March. We know the economy is a top issue for this president. Our reporting is that he asks a lot of questions about that in meetings. So, what's going on?

CATHERINE RAMPELL, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, look. Trump likes to talk about things we've never seen before. He got it this time around. We have never seen this many jobs lost this quickly, this many businesses shuttered this fast, and this many bankruptcies, frankly, that we should anticipate over the months ahead.

And I'm distressed by the fact that Trump has continued over the past several weeks to push, sort of, false hope when in fact he should be urging caution, when he should be helping Americans better manage their expectations for the fact that everything that we're seeing right now, both the public health crisis, and the economic crisis, could endure for quite a while, months if not potentially over a year at this point.

I mean, if you look at estimates, for example, from the congressional Budget Office, they anticipate that unemployment will be at 9 percent at the end of next year.

LEMON: Wow.

RAMPELL: So, so there are a lot of reasons to be quite concerned about the long-lasting damage here and the way to handle that, of course, is to manage the publics' expectations and also for our lawmakers to be much more proactive about addressing many of the easily foreseeable economic fallout, the consequences that we should anticipate in the months ahead.

LEMON: Wow, nine percent, Catherine, goodness gracious. Listen, we knew this from the beginning, Lauren, about, you know, another more rounds of rescue packages. These talks are underway for another round of rescue money from Congress. The White House has proposed $250 billion. What do you know about that?

LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL REPORTER: Well, essentially tomorrow, Don, we're going to majority Leader Mitch McConnell go to the Senate floor around 10 in the morning and essentially ask for unanimous consent of agreement to increase the amount of money they're going to put into this small business loan program by about $250 billion.

But here's the issue. Democrats are not on board with this proposal, not because they don't support the money for small businesses but because they say look, this is an opportunity to increase funding across the board.

What we're seeing here is an economic impact that no one could have anticipated. We want more money for hospitals. We want more money for state and local governments to handle this crisis. And we want to make sure that some of that money for small businesses actually goes to underserved communities.

They want to basically put $125 billion of that $250 billion in another fund to make sure that it is steered to those smaller community banks who have experienced some issues with rolling out the SPA's new small business loan program, Don.

LEMON: Yes, let's talk more about jobs, Catherine. This week's jobless claims expect to show over five million Americans file for unemployment benefits. But there are reports from all over the country of people still struggling just to get applications in. Are the systems just completely overwhelmed right now? RAMPELL: They are absolutely overwhelmed at this point. And look, many

states -- in fact, most states are still running on software that is basically from 60 years ago in many cases.

[23:20:04]

They run on a system called Cobol. These systems have not been sufficiently updated. Web sites are crashing. And in fact, the call centers that usually are set up to help people file their claims are also being shut down of course for the very same reason that people are trying to file claims in the first place, because of this pandemic.

So, the states are just massively overwhelmed. There has been some additional federal money that was appropriated for the states to help them sort of upgrade or at least maintain their service to handle this surge, but it's not nearly enough.

And the I.T. problems, to be clear, are not unique to state unemployment insurance systems. There is basic -- this is a problem basically at all levels of federal government. There's sort of systemic underinvestment in I.T. It never seems like an important thing until you of course have a crisis and then suddenly everybody is trying to get government help at once.

LEMON: It's not important until it's important.

RAMPELL: Right.

LEMON: Lauren, what is the latest on the SPA paycheck protection loans? I mean, that program has had a really chaotic start.

FOX: Well, that's right. And if you remember, Don, it really only got started just a few days ago. And essentially, what Steve Mnuchin, the treasury secretary has been touting on congressional calls he's been having today is that this program is getting money to people who need it.

He touted that $100 billion is waiting to go out, $90 billion has already gone out. And he says that they are getting more applications all the time. But at the beginning of the week on Monday, the system that the lenders were using to actually upload the application information into the SPA crashed for a significant period of time.

I had sources texting me saying, you know, across the country people are not able to get into the system right now. There were glitches over the weekend. I'm told it's still moving slowly but some fixes have come along.

And so, there's progress but we are talking about increasing the amount of money this program gets. And a lot of Republicans and Democrats -- and this is across the aisle -- are arguing some of these things need to be fixed perhaps, at least in legislative language or at the treasury level before we just hand them over 22 -- excuse me -- 250 billion more dollars.

LEMON: Lauren, Catherine, let's wish all those folks luck. Man, o, man. Thank you so much. I appreciate it.

California's governor making aggressive moves to keep the state safe during the coronavirus outbreak. What California is doing -- what they've been doing and how it's working, next.

[23:25:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Government officials and business leaders in California among the most aggressive in taking actions to stem the spread of coronavirus. Governor Gavin Newsom was the first in the U.S. to issue mandatory restrictions ordering 40 million residents to stay at home. Those early and aggressive actions appear to be paying off.

Here's CNN's Dan Simon.

DAN SIMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: States across the country scramble to increase their supply of N95 masks, California, the world's fifth largest economy, made a striking move. Governor Newsom announcing the state put together a deal to acquire 200 million masks a month for healthcare and frontline workers.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM (D-CA): We're dealing at a time where we need to go boldly and need to meet this moment without playing small ball any longer.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SIMON: In Los Angeles County, authorities are lifting the restrictions on coronavirus testing, and beginning Friday, the city will require residents to wear a mask or covering in supermarkets or other essential businesses.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR ERIC GARCETTI (D) LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA: And if you're not covering your face by Friday morning, an essential business can refuse you service.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SIMON: It follows a series of aggressive moves throughout the state beginning in mid-March that health experts say appear to show that California is bending the curve.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR LONDON BREED, (D) SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA: These measures will be disruptive to day to day life, but there is no need to panic.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SIMON: On March 16th, San Francisco became the first city in the country to issue a stay-at-home order. Bustling neighborhoods quickly became ghost towns.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NEWSOM: We direct a statewide order for people to stay at home.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SIMON: Three days later on March 19th, Newsom issued a stay-at-home order for the entire state. California got it right, medical experts say, as the results of these actions appear to be coming into the focus.

The state has not seen the sharp escalation in cases nor deaths that experts had predicted. Hospitals from both northern to Southern California appear to have little problem keeping up with the volume of patients.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SIMON: Is it fair to say that California right now is seeing a flattening of the curve?

ROBERT WACHTER, CHAIR, UCSF DEPARTMENT OF MEDICINE: There's no question about it. We've been reluctant to say it because we didn't want to jinx ourselves and we worry that people would hear that and change their behavior. But at some point, you have to look at reality and the curve is remarkably flat.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SIMON: Dr. Robert Wachter, chair of the Department of Medicine at UCSF credits the state's early call but believes other factors including many company's early decision to have employees work from home.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WACHTER: Apple, and Google, and Facebook and Microsoft has a big presence here, order their people to work from home 10 days to two weeks before even the politicians did that. And remember, when it happened everybody said is that an overreaction, but it turned out it was, it was prescient.

SIMON: It's one thing to call for drastic social distancing. It's another to actually see people comply.

[23:29:59]

Headed to California in early March, the return of the Grand Princess cruise ship with an unknown number of sick passengers and crew. Experts speculate it made the crisis seem more imminent ad real. Because of the quick action, Santa Clara County says the doubling time of cases has gone from three days to two weeks and perhaps even longer. But officials say now is not the time to let up.

SARA CODY, HEALTH OFFICER, COUNTY OF SANTA CLARA: That does not mean that we are not still seeing new cases and new hospitalizations. This incident is a marathon, maybe even an ultra-marathon.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SIMON: While California appears to have been quite successful on the mitigation side, officials acknowledged they have not been as successful on the testing side, which means there could potentially be thousands of people out there who have not been diagnosed.

That said, one of the key points here is when you talk to doctors in the state, they will tell you without too much trouble hospitals have been able to manage the patient inload, and Governor Newsom has pledged to substantially boost testing in the state by the end of the month. Don?

LEMON: Dan Simon, thank you so much. I appreciate it. We've got some breaking news tonight on the coronavirus outbreak in New York and where it came from. The details, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:35:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: So, we have some breaking news to report to you right now. The New York Times is reporting tonight that new research indicates that the coronavirus began to circulate in the New York area by mid- February. That was weeks before the first confirmed case, and that travelers brought in the virus mainly from Europe, not Asia.

So, I want to bring in now Dr. Esther Choo, an associate professor at Oregon Health and Science University. Fascinating new reporting and information here, Dr. Choo. Thank you so much. So give us your reaction to this new research in the Times that they're reporting on tonight. What do you think?

ESTHER CHOO, ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR, OREGON HEALTH AND SCIENCE UNIVERSITY: Yeah, I mean, it's concerning and disturbing that the virus was floating around in New York it sounds like as early as February when we were really looking in a different direction with kind of our pants down. On the other hand, what were we going to do with that information without testing?

I mean, the idea is had we known that the virus was coming in early, we could have been aggressively testing in New York and other major cities and been identifying these cases when there was just a handful of them and then tracing those cases and their contacts and being really aggressive about figuring out where those infections came from.

And, you know, I think everything would be different right now. It could be completely different in New York City if you think -- it makes you feel like if we had a rewind button in February and we were starting to test people who were -- had any sort of travel history, not just travel histories from Asia, what would that look like? It's painful to think about that.

LEMON: Yeah. It's interesting because these are two different sets of researchers and they were studying the genomes of the coronavirus. At least one of these two studies is awaiting peer review. But again, as we said, if early testing had been put in place, we might have known sooner, correct?

CHOO: Yeah.

LEMON: Yeah.

CHOO: I would like to read those studies. I haven't seen the studies. I saw the report on the studies. So, we'll have to revisit it when there's a little bit more information. But two studies independently coming to the same conclusions, we know -- you know, the virus -- different strains of the virus have a very specific fingerprint so that capability to trace back the pathway of the virus is possible. So, yeah, very suggestive and we'll see what else comes out of those reports once they're published.

LEMON: The report says on January 31, President Trump barred foreign nationals from entering the country if they had been to China during the prior two weeks, it would not be until late February that Italy would begin locking downtowns and cities, and March 11 when Mr. Trump said that he would block travellers from most European countries.

But New Yorkers had already been traveling home with the virus. So, people were just oblivious, said Adrian Haggai (ph), a member of the NYU team. He must be one of the members of the team who worked on this. So it's fascinating information here.

So, listen, I have to -- let's move on because there are a lot of folks here -- we're going to continue to report on this. And again, people will -- there are probably more studies that are going to come out and people are going to find out exactly when it got here and we will know soon. So, some answers to some of the questions, OK? This one comes up a lot. It says can coronavirus spread through the air? What do you say to that?

CHOO: Well, I don't know if you've seen these pictures of these slow motion pictures of people sneezing --

(LAUGHTER)

CHOO: -- and the droplets traveling some distance. And so, you know, that's aerosolized spread and it's possible, but really, that is -- that is only in the air for a short period of time. And really, we know that what's much more common is for it to be spread hand to hand, more like on droplets and sort of picked up from surfaces. So, it's possible, but that is exactly why we have these six-foot social distancing orders.

[23:39:59]

CHOO: So, you stay within a distance where it probably will not make it over to you by drifting through the air.

LEMON: OK. This one is so important. What is a typical progression of symptoms, from onset and back to healthy?

CHOO: Yeah. I mean, first, I want to be clear that there are a variety of pathways. Everything from never getting any symptoms at all or having such mild symptoms, you think you just have a common cold. So, I mean, that is just one pathway for people. Other people over the course of days to a week or a little bit more progress to really feeling terrible, having body aches and cough and having spiking high fevers.

And then small percentage of people develop a very -- a pneumonia and that pneumonia can become very bad and they become sick enough to go into the hospital.

LEMON: And the second part of the question was how long do the symptoms typically last? I think that's where you're going.

CHOO: Yeah, that's where I'm going. For people who get the sickest, it could be a recovery time of several weeks. Whereas if you get mild symptoms or don't become symptomatic, you know, I mean, you might feel a little something for a few days and that's it for you.

So, it's -- there are many possibilities. So, there isn't just one classic presentation but really a number of different ways it can present. But what we're really -- I would say, you know, what we're looking out for is the fever, cough, respiratory symptoms that lasts a week to two weeks.

LEMON: Dr. Choo, thank you for joining us again. We appreciate it.

CHOO: Of course. Thank you, Don.

LEMON: Here is an encouraging statistic. New Zealand has so far only had one death from coronavirus. What they're doing and what can we learn from them. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:45:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: There are now more than 1.5 million cases of coronavirus worldwide. But as the virus began its deadly spread, New Zealand took decisive action, shutting its borders and declaring a nationwide shutdown, measures which appear to be working. Here's CNN's Ivan Watson.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In the midst of a deadly pandemic sweeping the globe, the leader of New Zealand sounds a note of optimism.

JACINDA ARDERN, PRIME MINISTER OF NEW ZEALAND: I remain cautiously optimistic that we are starting to turn a corner.

WATSON (voice-over): Since the beginning of the outbreak, New Zealand has identified more than 1,200 coronavirus cases and suffered just one death.

(On camera): Do you think New Zealand has lessons to offer other countries with how it has dealt with this crisis?

SIOUXSIE WILES, MICROBIOLOGIST, UNIVERSITY OF AUCKLAND: I think the go hard, go early is the lesson. But obviously, we are not out of the woods yet.

WATSON (voice-over): New Zealand identified its first case of coronavirus on February 28. Less than three weeks later, Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern announced New Zealand would become one of the first democracies to shut its borders.

ARDERN: From 11:59 p.m. tonight, we will close our border to any non- residents and citizens attempting to travel here.

WATSON (voice-over): The ban on foreign visitors, a dramatic move for an island nation whose economy depends on tourism.

ARDERN: Over the past few weeks, the world has changed, and it has changed very quickly.

WATSON (voice-over): Two days later, a rare address from the prime minister's office, not seen in New Zealand in decades, outlining a response plan. Just four days after that, Ardern imposed a state of emergency and announced a nationwide shutdown.

ARDERN: -- we head into the next four weeks. Stay at home. It will break the chain of transmission and it will save lives.

WATSON (voice-over): Enforcement hasn't been easy. Police received tens of thousands of reports of people ignoring the lockdown, including these surfers. But the most egregious case came from the country's health minister.

DAVID CLARK, NEW ZEALAND HEALTH MINISTER: And I was wrong.

WATSON (voice-over): Ardern demoted but did not fire him after he drove his family to the beach for a walk.

CLARK: I had been an idiot if I'm being frank, and I understand why people will be angry with me.

WATSON (voice-over): Ardern was thrust into the international spotlight last year when an Australian gunman massacred Muslims in the city of Christchurch. Seventy-two hours after the deadliest mass shooting in New Zealand's history, Ardern announced a ban on semiautomatic weapons while also consoling a traumatized nation.

ARDERN: Good evening, everyone (ph).

WATSON (voice-over): In this latest crisis, the 39-year-old has shown her softer side, broadcasting live on Facebook in a sweatshirt and sending a message to children that despite the lockdown, the Easter bunny is still an essential worker.

ARDERN: If the Easter bunny doesn't make it to your household, we have to understand that it's a bit difficult at the moment for the bunny to perhaps get everywhere.

WATSON (voice-over): It is far too early to say whether New Zealand's strategy will succeed, but there may some lessons here for other countries grappling with coronavirus.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: Ivan Watson joins me now. Ivan, wow, very interesting. So, what is New Zealand's strategy going forward?

WATSON: Well, quite simply. They say they want to eliminate coronavirus completely from their shores. The prime minister, in a speech on Thursday, said that she congratulated kiwis for, quote, quietly and collectively implementing a nationwide wall of defense.

[23:50:04]

WATSON: For four straight days, New Zealand's coronavirus cases have diminished, just 29 detected on Thursday. She says despite this progress, they're implementing new restrictions. Any New Zealand citizen who flies back will go into mandatory quarantine for 14 days in some kind of government facility. Again, this is all part of the goal to try to eliminate this completely from New Zealand.

That country does have some advantages. It's very far away from other countries. It has a relatively small population. But, Don, we have been looking at cases around the world, countries that have suffered more like Italy and Spain.

Jacinda Ardern mentioned those countries, saying two weeks ago that according to her government modelling, New Zealand was on that trajectory when it had more than 200 cases. It could have followed Spain and Italy, which have both had more than 10,000 deaths.

Instead, she's arguing with this lockdown, with the borders shut down, it has protected her citizenry from this pandemic. And the only conclusion you can come to when you look at places like Hong Kong where I am right now, South Korea, New Zealand, countries that have kept the mortality down, you got to wonder if some of these strategies had been adopted in places like Italy, Germany, the U.S., could many lives have been saved?

LEMON: Absolutely. Fascinating. Ivan Watson, thank you so much. I appreciate it. It's the first night of Passover and this night is definitely different from all other nights, how people across the country are celebrating at a distance.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:55:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) LEMON: So it is the first night of Passover and Jewish people around the world who would typically be celebrating with family and friends around the same state or table, well, they're finding themselves gathering virtually because of social distancing. Check it out.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(GROUP SINGING)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: That is the Bornstein (ph) family having their Seder via Zoom. Let's bring in New York Times Cooking columnist Alison Roman, the author of "Nothing Fancy" and "Dining In." She also put together The New York Times guide to a Seder dinner this year. Thank you for joining us.

ALISON ROMAN, AUTHOR, COLUMNIST FOR THE NEW YORK TIMES COOKING: Hi. Thanks for having me.

LEMON: Happy Passover, by the way. You know, lots of families are enjoying Passover a little differently now. And you say this will be everyone's most memorable Passover, ever, still. Why is that?

ROMAN: I think it's the -- you're used to inviting your friends and your family and their friends and family into your home. And, this year, it might just be you or it might be you and your partner or your immediate family and your laptop or your phone. And it's -- it can be a bit more chaotic and feel a bit less full. But, you know, it will be memorable.

LEMON: Yeah. You know, in your piece for the Times, I mean, you even say it wasn't the Passover article you were expecting to write. Why is that?

ROMAN: Yeah. So when we conceived of this, it was supposed to be sort of this, you know, contemporary, modern, very fun, lively, spring dinner party, vaguely tied to Passover. And when things started to unravel and this was well after we had shot the recipes and the video shoot that accompanies them, we realized that it was going to be a completely different Passover this year.

And not just with regards to who we could or could not have in our homes but, you know, how we can shop for the ingredients, how we can shop for the recipes. You know, I try to be pretty flexible with my recipes in general. But this year, I feel like it is a great exception and things need to be very, very flexible.

LEMON: How are you celebrating this year?

ROMAN: I am quarantined with two of my friends up in Hudson, New York and so we are going to have a Seder on Saturday, which we will have a Zoom link for and send out to a few other friends who we typically celebrate Seders with. And so it will be led electronically this year.

But, you know, still in a fun way and we're still going to make the foods and the mussel soup and the short ribs and the kugel, and it's going to be great.

LEMON: Nice. This is me. I don't know if you can see this. That was me earlier on house party, celebrating with my friends. And we were actually -- we played chips and guac and some of them had --

ROMAN: (INAUDIBLE) house party, Don. I can't see them.

(LAUGHTER)

LEMON: So, there you go. That's what we did. So, anyways, that was a bit of fun that we did. But it's so good to see you and again, happy Passover to you. Actually, I think it's -- it's -- it's special this time around. So, you know, it's always special but --

ROMAN: (INAUDIBLE).

LEMON: Yeah. Absolutely. I appreciate you joining us. Thank you so much.

ROMAN: Of course, thanks for having me.

LEMON: Enjoy. So listen, before we leave you tonight, I just want to give a shout out to my friend, Tyler Perry, teamed up with Winn-Dixie and Kroger grocery stores in Louisiana and Georgia to pay for all groceries for seniors and high-risk customers during the hour this morning set aside for those shoppers. Tyler was born in New Orleans and his production studio is in Atlanta, so those states are close to his heart. It is so amazing. Thank you, Tyler.

Thanks for watching, everyone. Our coverage continues.