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Don Lemon Tonight

Florida Governor Want Kids to go Back to School; President Trump Points Finger to His Predecessor; Gov. Laura Kelly (D-KS) Was Interviewed About Her Executive Order on Group Gatherings; Coronavirus Cases In The United States 465,000 Plus, 16,600 Plus Deaths; New York Times, Aides And Allies Increasingly Believe the President's Daily Briefing Are Hurting Him; Federal Government Blocked Private Labs From Using Coronavirus Tests In Late January. Aired 10-11p ET

Aired April 09, 2020 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[22:00:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DON LEMON, CNN HOST: This is CNN Tonight. I'm Don Lemon.

Here's our breaking news. A surging number of cases of coronavirus in the United States and a rising number of Americans dying even as the hardest hit states like New York are now seeing declining, a declining number of hospitalizations.

Tonight, the coronavirus pandemic has claimed more than 16,000 lives in this country. That's at least 1,800 additional deaths in the last 24 hours. More than 462,000 confirmed cases in the U.S. as of this hour. And while the numbers are staggering and rising every day, Dr. Anthony Fauci has a message tonight that every American needs to hear.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: At the same time as we're seeing the increase in deaths, we're seeing rather dramatic decrease in the need for hospitalizations. So, that is going in the right direction. I say that -- and I always remind myself when I say that, that means that what we are doing is working. And therefore, we need to continue to do it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: The Vice President, Mike Pence, had the same message. America, it's working. Keep it up.

Tonight, 97 percent of Americans are living under stay-at-home orders. Social distancing, by practicing it, we are all saving each other's lives as best we can. Yet incredibly some governors seem resistant to the science and are out there tonight saying things that are just flat out wrong.

Florida's governor, for example, Ron DeSantis who admits he takes his queues from the president, from President Trump, saying today that he's considering reopening schools in his state. And here's why. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. RON DESANTIS (R-FL): I don't think nationwide there's been a single fatality under 25. For whatever reason it doesn't seem to threaten, you know, kids. And we lose in Florida between 5 and 10 kids a year for the flu.

This one, for whatever reason, much more dangerous if you're 65 and plus than the flu. No doubt for that. If you're younger, it just hasn't had an impact. So that should factor into how we're viewing this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: We like to give you the facts. Facts first on this program. Governor DeSantis is -- he's just wrong. The CDC reports coronavirus is killing people younger than 25, including infants, children, teens, and young adults.

Additionally, young people can also serve as carriers of the virus, transmitting it to their parents who can die, their grandparents who can die, and the elderly and people with underlying conditions who can die, of course. Those are who are at risk are most at risk.

Governor DeSantis is comparing coronavirus to the flu as President Trump did early on when the pandemic struck, and then of course, he denied it. Medical experts say there is no comparison. They are two completely different diseases.

Even the vice president at tonight's coronavirus briefing is acknowledging that despite the president in the past making similar comparisons. Tonight, he was asked by a reporter how we can consider reopening the country, the nation, if coronavirus is so contagious.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MIKE PENCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I can tell you is the layperson on the stage --

FAUCI: Go for it.

PENCE: -- we have known from the beginning that this is at least three times more contagious than the flu. And I believe that that fact alone has informed our projections in the modeling.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: At the briefing tonight, President Trump said that he wants to reopen the nation and get the economy moving again. But he was asked by my colleague Jim Acosta how we can get the country back up and running when we don't know the extent of the virus due to inadequate testing nationwide. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JIM ACOSTA, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: How could the administration discuss the possibility of reopening the country when the administration does not have an adequate nationwide testing system for this virus? Don't you need a nationwide --

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: No.

ACOSTA: -- testing system for the virus before we reopen?

[22:05:01]

TRUMP: No, we have a great testing system. We have the best, right now the best testing system in the world. But there are certain sections -- there are sections in the country that are in phenomenal shape already. Other sections are coming online. Other sections are going down.

And we, in addition to that, are giving out millions of tests. And every day we're doing it exponentially we're picking up. And what we'll be doing in the very near future is going to certain areas of our country and do massive testing. It's not necessary but it would be a good thing to have.

ACOSTA: Don't you need that, Mr. President --

TRUMP: Go ahead

ACOSTA: -- to make sure people are safe going back to work? You don't want to send people back to the workplace.

TRUMP: We want to have it, and we're going to see if we have it. Do you need it? No. Is it a nice thing to do? Yes. We're talking about 325 million people and that's not going to happen as you can imagine.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: I hate to say it, but the president seems to have learned very little from his own mistakes over the last three months. He clearly still doesn't understand the problem with coronavirus testing in this country. And to just let the experts speak. Even some doctors and nurses on the frontlines say that they cannot get tested.

So, Jim Acosta asked the question again, this time to the vice president, who tried to dodge the question at first but then gave a clearer answer than the president. Here's part of that exchange.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: So, we have enough testing right now?

PENCE: Well, let me -- let me say we're moving every day toward meeting that moment.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Meeting that moment. In other words, there's not enough testing being done right now. As we have seen --we have seen time and time again during this pandemic, President Trump blames everybody else for his administration's slow and erratic response. That includes, of course, his predecessor, President Barack Obama.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: You were preparing for a pandemic, if this government were preparing for a pandemic, why is it we don't have enough masks? Why it we don't have enough medical equipment in this country?

TRUMP: The previous administrations gave us very little ammunition for the military and very little shelf space. Let me just tell you. You know it. You know the answer. The previous administration -- the shelves were empty. The shelves were empty. So, what you should do is speak to the people from the previous administration, Jim, and ask him that question because the shelves were empty.

No, I don't take responsibility at all because we were given a set of circumstances and we were given rules, regulations, and specifications from a different time. It wasn't meant for this kind of an event.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Well, today the former President Barack Obama spoke virtually to a gathering of mayors and local leaders from around the world. And I want to read part of his message to them.

And I quote, he said, "Speak the truth, speak it clearly, speak it with compassion, speak it with empathy for what folks are going through. The biggest mistake any of us can make in this situation is to misinform, particularly when we are requiring people to make sacrifices and take actions that might not be their natural inclination."

Speak the truth. Don't misinform. Who do you think those words were directed to?

And he went on. "The more smart people you have around you and the less embarrassed you are to ask questions, the better your response is going to be."

Words notably different in tone than what we witness on a daily basis from the Trump White House. President Trump also likes to say that nobody saw the pandemic coming. Really? Well, here's a warning from President Barack Obama back in 2014.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: There may, and likely will, come a time in which we have both an airborne disease that is deadly. And in order for us to deal with that effectively, we have to put in place an infrastructure not just here at home but globally that allows us to see it quickly, isolate it quickly, respond to it quickly.

So that if and when a new strain of flu like the Spanish flu crops up five years from now or a decade from now, we've made the investment. And we're further along to be able to catch it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: And guess what. The former president was not politicizing the possibility of a pandemic on the horizon. He was sending a message to Congress at the time that a deadly pandemic is not a partisan issue.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[22:09:57]

OBAMA: I cannot think of a better example of an area where we should all agree than passing this emergency funding to fight Ebola and to set up some of the public health infrastructure that we need to deal with potential outbreaks in the future.

How do you argue with that? That is not a partisan issue. That is a basic common-sense issue that all Americans can agree on.

For the most part, people have recognized. This is not a Democratic issue or the Republican issue. It's about the safety and security of the American people. So, let's get it done. This can't get caught up in normal politics. We need to protect the American people, and we need to show the world how America leads.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: He said five years in that speech. It was exactly five years. So, instead of blaming the former administration, maybe he should take advice from the former president. Maybe he should take advice from former presidents who have been there before instead of saying I alone can fix this.

America needs to lead in the battle against coronavirus, and President Trump needs to stop dividing the American people. He needs to stop blaming his predecessor who set a totally different tone, a presidential tone.

And tonight, more than 462,000 confirmed cases or, of coronavirus in this country. More than 16,500 deaths.

CNN White House correspondent Kaitlan Collins is here, and also Dr. Amy Compton Phillips, a chief clinical officer from Providence Health in Seattle joins us as well. Thank you very much. I appreciate both of you joining us.

Kaitlan, I'm going to start with you. There are now plans for a second task force aimed at reopening the economy but the key factor should also be testing, testing, testing, and the president is downplaying the significance of that.

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, tonight he said he doesn't think there needs to be mass testing in order to return the country back to work, reopen the economy.

As we know that is his number one priority which is notable because that's not really what we've been hearing from health experts. They've said we need to have adequate testing in order to return people to work, to try to get life back to normal because you're going to want to be able to test people if they're going into work, not only to see if they have it, or test them to see if they've had coronavirus because that's going to make some pretty crucial decisions about that.

And of course, third, they also need to ramp up the contact tracing, something that has not been at an adequate level yet because they need to be able to know if someone does get it in the future, how can they isolate that person and prevent the outbreaks like what we're seeing now?

But the president totally downplayed that tonight, dismissed it, made it sound like as if that would include testing every single American. He referenced, you know, 330 million people. That's not what these health experts have suggested we should note.

But, Don, the president also repeated falsely once again that the U.S. has the best testing system in the entire world. We know that's not the case. We still lag behind several other countries in testing per capita because testing has been one of, you know, the slowest responses of the administration to the coronavirus outbreak here in the U.S., though they are ramping it up now, of course.

LEMON: Kaitlan, I want to play what we heard from the president at the beginning of March on tests. Here's what he said then.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Anybody right now and yesterday, anybody that needs a test gets a test. They're there. They have the tests. And the tests are beautiful. Anybody that needs a test, gets a test.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: But tonight, a month later, he's conceding that there isn't going to be mass testing. What gives?

COLLINS: Yes, that wasn't true when the president said it. It's not true now that anyone who wants a test can get a test. We hear it from scores of people who are not only dealing with themselves but also state officials as well.

So, the president has tried to gloss over the testing issue and said multiple times false statements about the level that the U.S. is at, why you've seen other officials on stage give more accurate reflections of actually what the testing looks like here in the U.S. And that is just, you know, that's not the case that anyone who wanted a test can get a test.

And of course, it is going to have to be ramped up before they get people back to work. Which we should remind people the president is hoping to do in just three weeks from now.

LEMON: Dr. Compton-Phillips, I want to bring you in because the CDC director, Robert Redfield participated in our CNN town hall and was asked whether he would use hydroxychloroquine to treat coronavirus, the drug that the president has praise as a game changer. Here's what he said and then we'll talk.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERT REDFIELD, DIRECTOR, CENTERS FOR DISEASE CONTROL AND PREVENTION: I'm not going to recommend it and not going to not recommend it. I think, you know, Sanjay, you and I are very similar. We're probably similar to our friend Dr. Fauci. I mean, you know, we're very comfortable in responding when we have data that is compelling. And I think this is where the studies are going to give it.

[22:15:05]

CDC is an organization -- as you know, you and I have talked about it before. We're not an opinion organization. We're a science-based data- driven organization.

So, I do think this is going to be an independent decision of these health care providers and patients. And at this stage -- at this moment in time, we're not recommending it, but we're not-not recommending it. We're recommending for the physician and the patient to have that discussion.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Listen, I think everyone -- everyone hopes that it is a miracle drug, that it would work. But again, the president has praised the drug despite not being fully tested. So, it's interesting to hear the CDC director say this.

AMY COMPTON-PHILLIPS, CHIEF CLINICAL OFFICER AND EXECUTIVE VICE PRESIDENT, PROVIDENCE ST. JOSEPH HEALTH: Well, you know, the upside is that he said that this needs to be a science-based decision. And that's exactly right.

So, what we do with studies is we actually determine is what we're seeing anecdote or is what we're seeing actually give the weight of scientific evidence.

And if you think about this, Don, you know, 95 percent of people that we know have coronavirus that have symptoms are perfectly fine and don't need to go on to ICU and a ventilator. Right?

And so, if you, if the very small trials that have been done with hydroxychloroquine have been -- I mean, honestly in the 20s and in the 10s of patients, and you wouldn't expect those patients to get worse, right? Ninety-five percent of people don't get bad. They don't need a ventilator. They don't go into the ICU.

So, if you just do a handful of patients and treat them with the drug and say it's a miracle, none of them needed the ICU, well, that could just have been the odds to begin with. And that's why we need to do these larger trials and really understand does this drug help or was it just luck that people who were going to be fine anyway got treated with the drug. So, that's what we're working on right now.

LEMON: All right. Doctor, Kaitlan, thank you both very much. I appreciate.

Both the vice president and CDC director are complimenting Americans for their success in social distancing. But in Kansas, a battle over religious gatherings could put a lot of people at risk just days before Easter.

The Kansas Governor Laura Kelly is here to talk about that, next.

[22:20:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: An escalating battle over religious gatherings in Kansas threatening to put people at risk with coronavirus with Easter quickly approaching.

Kansas Governor Laura Kelly suing the state's top Republican lawmakers for overturning her executive order to limit religious services to 10 people. Her lawsuit coming after Wednesday marked the state's highest number of reported coronavirus deaths in a single day.

Governor Kelly joins me now. Governor, I really appreciate you joining us. Thank you so much. You're asking the Kansas Supreme Court --

GOV. LAURA KELLY (D-KS): Thank you, Don.

LEMON: -- to quickly decide on this. I mean, Easter is Sunday. You say these Republicans are jeopardizing the lives of Kansans. Go on, talk to me about this.

KELLY: Well, you know, it was a very simple decision, a very simple executive order. All it did was reinforce an executive order. We had already passed before that just said no more than 10 people in any one place, socially distance.

We just made it very clear that this also applied to our churches because we've had now four clusters of coronaviruses in our church settings. We needed to make it clear to our church community who by and large have stopped doing in-church services, been doing everything online, drive-in services. They've been incredibly creative.

But there were some who weren't, and we just needed to make it very clear that you have to do this. The health and the safety of all Kansans is involved in this so you're included. And that's all this was. This was not any attack on religion or anything else. It was just really put in place to make it clear that we want all Kansans so matter your religion to be safe.

LEMON: I mean, can you help me understand this? I've been trying to get someone to help me understand this because I don't. Look, I love the Lord just as much as anybody else and I would love to go to church on Sunday and put on my sere sucker suit and, you know -- but it's not like you're asking people to never go to church again. So, what am I missing? I don't -- what am I missing here?

KELLY: Well, Don, you chose not to go into politics and probably a wise choice. I live in a political world. And sometimes things just get political. And that's what's happened here, and that's shameful.

You know, we have a pandemic here in the State of Kansas as we do all across the nation, all across the world. The fact that legislators would use this opportunity to make a political statement is incredible, very irresponsible.

And I'm hoping that the Kansas Supreme Court will reaffirm our decision to ask, to tell, our church congregations that they should not meet in groups, anything larger than 10 like we have for everything.

LEMON: And you can have kids there with Easter baskets and bonnets and Easter -- they're putting kids and old ladies and men and -- you know, at risk. I don't --

KELLY: Well, you know, I honestly don't think that will happen because quite honestly before I announced this executive order, I was on the phone with dozens of our faith leaders all across the state, all across denominations, and all of them were with me on this. I was on the phone again with the faith leaders after the legislature did what they did.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: So, you think it's the politicians and not the faith leaders.

KELLY: They continue to be with me. I know it's not the faith leaders.

LEMON: Got you, OK.

KELLY: They are completely and totally with me.

LEMON: So, I get you. So, listen, this is what the Kansas City -- the Kansas Senate president, I should say, telling the Wichita newspaper, quote, "don't tell us what we can't practice. Don't tell us we can't practice our religious freedom."

[22:25:07]

What do you say to Kansans who might agree with her?

KELLY: Well, you know, I know President Susan Wagle, the Senate leader you're talking about very well. I was in the Senate with her for 14 years. I also was raised Catholic. I actually happen to have a brother who is a Catholic priest. And trust me, he's all in this with me.

He understands that right now the health of Kansas, the health of Americans across the nation is the most important thing. And that religion is really not about the building. It's about the faith. It's about how you feel on the inside. And so, the need to congregate is important, but not during a pandemic.

So, I hear president Wagle. I just don't agree with her. I am not trying to suppress religion. I'm just trying to save Kansans lives.

LEMON: I get what you're saying. So, listen, I apologize if I thought -- you know, if anyone thought -- I thought it was the religious leaders who were, you know, defying this.

(CROSSTALK)

KELLY: No, absolutely not.

LEMON: So, I apologize. It's the politicians. Wow. Unbelievable. Unbelievable. Well, good luck. And let us know what happens, OK?

KELLY: Thank you. I'll see you Easter Monday.

LEMON: And you have a happy Easter. Thank you so much. Good luck. Thank you, Governor.

KELLY: Take care. You too.

LEMON: Officials say that they're looking into reopening the country on a rolling basis. I'm going to ask the former Defense Secretary and Senator William Cohen what he thinks the right strategy for reopening the country could be. That's next.

[22:30:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: President and his top aides anxious to reopen the country and get the economy moving again. But when is the right time? I want to bring in now former Defense Secretary, William Cohen, who is also a former U.S. Senator. Good to see you, Secretary. Thank you so much for joining us.

WILLIAM COHEN, FORMER SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: thanks for having me on.

LEMON: We're starting to hear what the return to normal might look like. Dr. Fauci is saying that it will be gradual, could be different by region. What does the right strategy look like to you?

COHEN: Well, you had an earlier segment with President Barack Obama -- former President and he used the word truth on several occasions. And you need to have truth before you can have trust. And I think that is the key to deciding when you start to unroll or spread out the recovery of our economy.

I think at this point there's still a great deal of mistrust or distrust, that people aren't be given the full information or it's inconsistent. So, I think as the president tries to reenergize the economy, he has to be guided almost exclusively not by his instincts or gut, but by the science and scientists and the experts like Dr. Fauci. And I think of that in the context. We've been reading about the Theodore Roosevelt what happened there, in terms of how the sailors aboard that aircraft carrier, they were giving their captain a round of applause as he departed that ship, because they trusted him. They trusted him that he was telling the truth and trying to tell truths to power.

And so, I think that applies in virtually every asset of what we're talking about in governance. And now there are some questions being raised, for example, on the military basis that our military, they train together. They're in close quarters for the most part. Their families are with them. And so it really requires not only truth and trust but transparency. We have to be as transparent with the people as possible.

And so, I think the message coming out -- I know the president wants to give people hope and a sense of optimism and that's part of his job. But the principle part of his job is to build trust. And that can only come with truth. And if you're not giving us the truth or if you're trying to hype certain products or medicines, that is not helpful. And so I think we need to hear more from Dr. Fauci and his team and also the vice president, who has been very direct in describing the factual situation. So, I think we need more of that. I think the president, today, was more direct in terms with his comments and I think that's a good thing.

LEMON: So, no matter -- so, in terms of opening up the country, the truth first so that people can believe what the president says and they'll feel more comfortable, whatever that new normal is. But The New York Times secretary is reporting that some of the president's aides and allies, Republican lawmakers increasingly, think that the president's daily briefings are hurting him. Some wonder why a former President Obama and Bush haven't been asked to help respond to the national emergency as I mentioned in my opening remarks as well. Why isn't that happening?

COHEN: Well, you know, it's interesting, not just the Congress that's being vocal about it now. The Wall Street Journal, something that the president I'm sure follows very closely had an editorial today criticizing the president for turning these briefings really into an entertainment show or a political event. The last thing we need in this country is to play partisan politics with this.

And so I think the president got the message. I hope he did, that if you're going to give a statement. Give a statement, step aside, and let the experts talk, because his inclination is to want to entertain people. And entertainment comes at a price. It comes at a price of what the truth is, what accuracy is, what the facts are.

[22:35:13]

And so I think it's in his nature to want to entertain. That's who he is. But I think what we really need in this country is not entertainment, but we need the facts. We need the truth, and then we can trust. If he goes any endeavor that we have, if you don't have the truth you will never have the trust of the people you're seeking to lead. You will never be a leader because people will not be willing to follow you into battle or into the community or follow you on television et cetera, if you're not telling the people the truth.

So, I think as it unrolls, what is really important is for the administration to continue to try to, at least, tell the truth as hard as it may be or as good as it's going to be and not engage in hyperbole or trying to be too much of a cheerleader. I understand the president wants to lift people up and to give them hope, but, you know, I want Tom Brady as my quarterback. I don't want a cheerleader. I want Tom Brady. And I want that in my president as well.

LEMON: Secretary Cohen, thank you. I appreciate your time and your knowledge on this as well. Thank you so much. You be safe, you and your family.

COHEN: Thank you. You too.

LEMON: Thank you.

A programming note for you. Make sure you tune in to New Day tomorrow morning. Dr. Anthony Fauci live, 7:00 a.m., 7:00 a.m. Eastern right here on CNN on New Day, Dr. Anthony Fauci.

CNN is finding not only was the government behind on testing but they put up road blocks to keep private labs from helping. Our investigation into the truth about testing is next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[22:40:00]

LEMON: Vice President Mike Pence tonight dodging a question on whether the U.S. is doing enough testing to reopen the country. Health experts say ramping up tests is one of the first steps in even considering a return to normalcy. This as CNN is learning that private labs were eager to develop testing as early as January, but were blocked by the federal government. Here's CNN's Drew Griffin with the truth about testing.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DREW GRIFFIN, CNN SENIOR INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT: As coronavirus was silently racing around the world in late January and early February, the federal government not only failed to use the massive arsenal of hundreds of laboratories across the United States for emergency testing, it actually left road blocks in place to prevent non-government labs from assisting. That is according to documents obtained by CNN and interviews with more than a dozen scientists and physicians involved in coronavirus testing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: At the very beginning of this pandemic, it was the federal government that had the sole ability to do the testing and made it very difficult for private labs, for University labs to make their own tests based on certain regulatory hurdles.

GRIFFIN: Several hospital and University base labs have told CNN they saw the pandemic approaching, were developing their own tests as early as January to detect the virus. But the red tape with the FDA's regulatory process prevented them from moving forward meaning labs sat idle.

DR. GLENN MORRIS, UNIVERSITY OF FLORIDA: Rather than enlisting the tremendous strength and power of the U.S. laboratory capacity, getting everybody working on this and creating tests and having widespread test availability, we had CDC trying to keep running everything by itself. GRIFFIN: The federal government was prepared to enforce the rule,

sending this memo on February 6th telling state health departments to actively police against labs using their own coronavirus tests. The reasoning behind the tight regulations were good, but sure the safety and efficacy of tests. But Dr. Glen Morris of the University of Florida says the FDA rules were written for normal situations, not a crisis.

MORRIS: When we suddenly hit the point where we're looking at China and seeing what was going on there, what we needed was extremely aggressive leadership, we've got to move fast because otherwise we're going to run into a problem.

GRIFFIN: The problem developed as soon as the CDC rolled out its own test for verification. It didn't work. And weeks were lost as the CDC scrambled to make a new test.

SCOTT BECKER, CEO OF THE ASSOCIATION OF PUBLIC HEALTH LABORATORIES: So, we really were in a -- basically at a pause for a few weeks within the public health system. And meanwhile the academic laboratory who had developed their own test also were not able to test because the regulations didn't allow it at that time.

GRIFFIN: What's even worse in 2018 after the Zika outbreak, the CDC came up with a plan to avoid the very testing disaster that's happening. CNN obtained a copy of this memorandum of understanding between the commercial and public labs and the CDC that was supposed to increase national laboratory testing in an emergency by engaging commercial labs early in the response. It didn't work. Dr. Karen Kaul, who runs the laboratory services for Northshore University Health System in Evanston, Illinois was one of the labs pushing to launch its own test and was stopped by overbearing red tape. It seems like this has been a bit of a failure.

DR. KAREN KAUL, LABORATORY SERVICES, NORTHSHORE UNIVERSITY HEALTH SYSTEM, EVANSTON, ILLINOIS: I do think there's definitely room for improvement. What's happened is we've had a number of laboratories and a number of manufacturers and groups that are not all working together in a coordinated fashion.

GRIFFIN: In a statement to CNN, the FDA insists there was nothing wrong in its process and instead blames individual lab delays where labs did not understand the FDA process and mistakenly believed there was more work involved. Despite that, the FDA did publish new guidelines on February 29th allowing labs to begin testing. Experts tell CNN it was just too late.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: Drew Griffin joins me now. Drew, good evening to you. There was concern over the Trump administration ending support for coronavirus testing sites after a statement from FEMA now. But the government is saying that something else. Can you clarify this for us?

[22:45:11] GRIFFIN: Yes, this seems to be a reversal. The government's calling it

a clarification. What was happening was that FEMA was going to allow the states to transition into manning their own sites. These are the 41 sites that the federal government was helping to stand up. But there's a lot of push back because these sites still need a lot of help, a lot of federal help. So, today Mike Pence, the vice president, said well if they need our help we're going to give them our help. If they don't need our help, we're going to allow them to run these on their own. But the big problem still remains with supplies, supply lines getting to these places and apparently now after some push back the federal government will not just abandon these sites across the country.

LEMON: Drew Griffin reporting. Drew, thank you so much for that.

Next, one family's warning, don't take this as a joke. We're going to hear from the daughter and sister of a woman who died from coronavirus.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[22:50:00]

LEMON: So, I want you to sit down and watch this interview and pitch into this family, because they definitely deserve it and you will -- it will resonate with you and you will learn something. So, tonight, the coronavirus pandemic has claimed more than 16,000 lives in this country, including Rosemary Gabriele.

Joining me now is Tara Gabriele, Rosemary's daughter Patricia Scimone, Rosemary's sister. Good evening to both of you. Thank you so much. I'm sure you're holding up as well as can be expected under the circumstances. And we're so sorry for the loss of your family member. Of your sister. Patricia, thank you so much for joining us. You say that Rosemary got into a hospital too late. So, please tell me what happened.

TARA GABRIELE, ROSEMARY'S DAUGHTER: So, I piggyback on my aunt for this interview just for that exact reason was that my mother was a real person. She was loving and selfless and kind and giving. And she was one of the 95 plus thousand that died. And they're real. They're real people. The virus is serious. We have to save one another. And if she could have been tested sooner and gotten into the hospital sooner which her doctor steered her away from. She might have survived and been with me today.

LEMON: Why did you say her doctor steered her away from?

GABRIELE: Yes. Well, it seems that she had made calls to both her pulmonologist and also her general practitioner. And she was told by one of them we are not sure which, frankly, that there were problems in the hospitals already. And that it wasn't in her best interest to go to the hospital. That it seemed that because she explained to them that she wasn't well, she did have a high fever, the next day she seemed to be doing better. And then the next day she wasn't. And he said based on that, you couldn't end up having the virus, because first of all you wouldn't survive the virus and second of all that this is not how the virus works.

PATRICIA SCIMONE, ROSEMARY'S SISTER: And you're not sick enough.

LEMON: Well, Tara, you said, you know, that this is real. And either one of you can respond, Patricia or Tara, but Rosemary believed, this is according that folks who down played the virus at first you believe that she believed the people I should say, who down played the virus at first. And you and other family members tried to get her to take precautions. But she thought it was on overreaction. Why do you think that she didn't take it seriously enough?

GABRIELE: It was early on. And she was following the news that she watched. And her granddaughter begged and begged her to take it more seriously. And to please not visit me in Virginia. She really wanted to see my daughter for her birthday. And she just really didn't think she was going to get it. She said if I get this, I will die. But she did not think she was going to get it.

LEMON: Patricia?

SCIMONE: Like so many other people, everyone thinks that they are invincible. No one thinks it's going to happen to me. It's definitely going to happen to someone else. But it's not going to happen to me. And I think that's a lot of people's attitude and this is one of the reason why we're on this evening. Because if there are people that out there feeling just that way, heed the warning?

LEMON: We hear about the phone calls and the Facetime. That some patients are having before they can no longer speak. Tara, talk to us, you know, about what your mother said to your older sister Paula, when she called her before --

GABRIELE: It was so sad.

LEMON: This was before she was put on a ventilator, right. But go on. Sorry.

GABRIELE: Yes. So, Thursday when she went into the hospital she was able to talk to us and Friday morning I text her and I said are you getting a ventilator. And she said yes and then she called my sister and she said I can only make one phone call please tell your brother and sister that I only have this one phone call to make.

And she had her get her computer out and type down her last words. And you know, at the time we didn't realize that the ventilator, we thought that was good. OK, she's getting on a ventilator. Well, it wasn't good. It's very hard to come off of the ventilators and those were the last words that she had to my sister to all of us.

[22:55:08]

LEMON: This is a tough question. But I just -- you know, I lost someone and I wasn't able to say goodbye to them. And I know that's something that sort of haunts you for, you know, the rest of your life. I know Tara that, you and your Aunt weren't able to say goodbye and you weren't able to be at her burial yesterday. And you know, what do you want to say and what are you going to remember about Rosemary?

GABRIELE: I mean, my mother was so loyal. And so selfless. And she cared for us immensely and did everything for her family. And for strangers too. She was just a kind soul. And I'm going to miss her with every breath of every moment that I take.

LEMON: Patricia?

SCIMONE: Well, I did not realize that I was in an emergency room with her. And I did not realize that the last conversation that I would have with my sister was sitting in the emergency room. I was there with her for about a half hour. Before she said to me, gosh I'm really tired. And I would like to see if I could get some sleep. As they were working on her. It was obvious that they were having difficulty being able to get enough oxygen in her lungs.

They kept raising the oxygen. Raising the oxygen and they were asking her, you know, do you have oxygen at home? And questions like that. I had no idea that that would be the very last time that I would have a conversation with her. But she and I were talking and laughing. And when I walked out of the room we were chatting about something. And her last words to me was good luck with that.

LEMON: Thank you both for sharing your story, to have the courage and for honoring your loved one. I really appreciate it.

GABRIELE: Thank you for sharing it.

SCIMONE: Thank you so much for allowing us to get on the air and tell people that you need to do this. You just need to follow what's going on. Thank you so much. We really appreciate it.

GABRIELE: Thank you.

LEMON: Thank you. We'll be right back.

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