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Don Lemon Tonight

Mayor Eric Garcetti (D) of Los Angeles, California Was Interviewed About the Status of COVID Cases in His City; Kim Jong-un's Health in Grave Danger. Aired 11p-12a ET

Aired April 20, 2020 - 23:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[23:00:00]

DON LEMON, CNN HOST: This is CNN Tonight. I'm Don Lemon.

Eleven p.m. on the East Coast. And we've got two huge breaking news stories tonight. Of course, the latest on the coronavirus crisis, there are now more than 786,000 coronavirus cases in the United States, over 42,000 deaths.

There's also the breaking news out of North Korea, Kim Jong-un reportedly in grave danger after recent surgery. We're going to go live to the region later in the hour.

But first, the latest information on the coronavirus pandemic. The death toll double where it was this time last week. Worldwide, nearly 2.5 million cases and 170,000 deaths.

The State of Georgia will begin easing restrictions on businesses allowing gyms, tattoo parlors, barbershops, hair and nail salons to reopen on Friday. Theaters and restaurants next Monday.

And local officials are barred from imposing their own restrictions on those businesses. But Governor Brian Kemp admitting that his state may see an uptick in cases.

And tonight, President Trump insisting again that enough testing materials are available. And that governors are responsible for testing. His statement coming hours after Vice President Pence held a conference call with governors to address their growing frustration with testing capacity.

And tonight, announces on Twitter that he'll be temporarily suspending immigration into the United States while providing no details and without explaining how it will help provide Americans with more tests, PPE or the other conditions necessary to open safely.

Joining me now CNN White House correspondent John Harwood, and our resident fact checker Daniel Dale. Good evening to both of you. John, over 42,000 people have died in this country from coronavirus. And yet the president talked about the election at his briefing.

And just in the past hour he tweeted that he's going to suspend immigration into the U.S. It seems clear that he's no longer even trying to look like he is approaching this as a public health crisis. This is political now.

JOHN HARWOOD, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Don, the president made clear by his words and his actions in the last couple of days that his principle motivation right now is to escape blame for this economic and public health catastrophe on his watch as president.

He is in deep trouble for his reelection. It is very difficult for him to cope with the weight of this criticism. And so, he comes into the briefing and he continuously tries to suggest that he's done everything right. All the difficult things that yet have to be done, the testing needed to reopen the country, he's saying those are the governor's responsibility.

Picking arguments with Larry Hogan, the Republican governor of Maryland who is the head of the National Governors Association who has been saying plainly we do not have enough tests. And the president said yes, you do. He arrayed his aides at the briefing to try to make the argument that they had patched together enough resources in various places to solve the problem.

But you have to go with the judgment of the people on the ground that is to say the governors and certainly the American people are. We saw a poll over the weekend 36 percent of the American people say they trust Trump on coronavirus. Sixty-six percent say they trust their governor.

That's what the president is up against. He's trying to change the subject with the immigration ban that without explaining anything about how this would affect the problem. This is a president who is in survival mode right now. Not survival for his constituents, survival for himself.

LEMON: Yes. Our colleague, John, Kaitlan Collins asked the president if companies that reopen and have employees if they get sick, if they are going to face liability. Here's how he answers.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: I'll give you an answer to that. I'll give you a legal answer to that when we look it up. But we had tried to take liability away from these companies. We just don't want that. Because we want the companies to open and to open soon. But I'll get you a legal opinion on that.

[23:05:01]

I'll get you, well, that's what I'm saying. I'll get you a legal opinion on that.

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: You guys haven't discussed that yet?

TRUMP: Nobody is discussing it. No, but we will now.

(END VIDEO CLIP) LEMON: So, John, I don't know if you remember, I'm not sure if it was in my discussion with you, but I raised that last week when they started maybe even the week before, about companies having exposure if people started to get sick.

They haven't discussed it no one in the White House. It seems like that would be one of the first things that you discuss. Even though this president is so anxious to get the economy back up and running again. It seems like a no brainer.

HARWOOD: Of course, they have -- of course they have discussed it, Don. And in fact, I believe that's a subject that came up on the president's call with business leaders on this task force he's put together.

But this illustrates the box that he's in. If businesses do not have liability protection, they're going to be very wary of reopening. Because of the exposure they face. If the government then indemnifies the companies from risk and says we'll cover you if it's risky. The employees are not going to want to go back to work.

If their -- if their company has said we don't want to be on the hook for protecting people, are those workers going to come back? Are those executives really going to ask them to come back? That's the problem.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: The government indemnifying companies -- that's a lot of --

HARWOOD: Exactly. You cannot separate the threat of the virus --

LEMON: Yes.

HARWOOD: -- from the economic damage. If you want to solve the economic problem you've got to get on top of the virus.

LEMON: Yes.

HARWOOD: And the president is not recognizing that.

LEMON: All right. So, Daniel, listen, the president is also claiming that people are trying to get him by talking about testing just like they did with the ventilators. Give me the fact check on that.

DANIEL DALE, CNN REPORTER: Don, it's just not an anti-Trump conspiracy to express concern about the level of testing in this country. Like it's just not. It's very simple.

In the last week alone, we have heard the Republican governors of Maryland, Ohio and Nebraska, Massachusetts, plus other Republicans like health committee chairman Senator Lamar Alexander express concerns about the level of testing or about their ability to obtain critical testing supplies.

We've also heard concerns about the level of testing needed from people like Scott Gottlieb, Dr. Scott Gottlieb, the former Trump FDA chief from the head of the Association of American Medical Colleges. These are not foaming at the mouth leftists. This is a widespread bipartisan concern.

LEMON: OK, gentlemen. Thank you. A lot more to talk about and we will have you, we'll see you both back here very soon. Thanks so much.

I want to bring in now the mayor of Los Angeles, Eric Garcetti. Mayor, thank you. I appreciate you joining us. How are you doing?

MAYOR ERIC GARCETTI (D), LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA: I'm hanging in there. Strength and love to you.

LEMON: Yes. You as well. So, you say your city is under attack and we were told that L.A. hasn't reached the peak of this outbreak. Do you have what you need to deal with this?

GARCETTI: Well, we've got to build a lot of that ourselves and I've been just blown away by the courage and the strength and generosity of Angelenos. We stood up testing centers using our own firefighters. Buying whatever tests, we could find. We've opened that up to everybody.

We're trying to take care of immigrants who are written out of the federal legislation. Even though they pay taxes and are helping in our grocery stores and picking our food and in our slaughter house.

We've got a lot to still go through. And we know that we mostly have to do it on our own. But we certainly hope to see more of a United States of America in the days ahead and not just this attitude of good luck out there.

To remind everybody in Washington that this country is made of states and cities that need direct help right now. Because we're the ones with our people on the front lines.

LEMON: A new study shows that 95 percent of Los Angeles County residents are vulnerable to the virus. Officials thought that more people would have been antibodies. What does that mean for your fight against this virus?

GARCETTI: Well, it's good news bad news. The good news is we went out early, we protected our people. And you show how few people have gotten it. It's about 4.1 percent in this first study are shown to have the antibodies. Which means almost 96 percent of us thankfully haven't gotten it.

Which means that our deaths are, you know, we have about as many cases as there are deaths in New York. And our hearts go out to everybody in New York who's been so hard hit.

On the other hand, it means that we're very vulnerable. So, as we take our steps forward to opening up the economy, to kind of not only reopen but to recover and to reimagine. We're going to have to make sure that we design this carefully. Not get caught up in whoever is protesting and saying open it up.

One study here showed that if --

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: Mayor, if I can step in. Is that because -- is that because fewer people have been exposed than you thought might have been? Because you're nowhere near herd immunity.

GARCETTI: No, we're not. Which means that one study showed that 95 percent of us could get it by August 1 if we just lay down everything and said everybody go outside. That would be devastating and we'd see like we saw in northern Italy. Decisions between life and death. People dying in hospitals. And that would be a travesty.

[23:09:57]

So, we have to keep with what we're doing and also look at smart ways to reopen and testing and tracking and tracing is going to be absolutely critical for that.

LEMON: OK. I want to get your reaction to the president saying that he is going to suspend -- he's tweeting this out tonight, suspend all immigration temporarily, he says. I imagine that you like to hear more details. Everyone would. About exactly what this means beyond, you know, just firing off a tweet.

GARCETTI: Yes. I believe in governance by law not necessarily by tweet. I'm proud to be the grandson of an immigrant from Mexico. That's why I'm the mayor today. We have a president who is the grandson of an immigrant as well who married immigrants.

We can't run away from who we are and the people who are helping us most right now. I think we are all in this together and all life matters. And this isn't going to get stopped by playing politics.

I think that Mexico is more worried about the rate of infection from the United States right now than vice versa. So, let's make sure that we stay connected and engage with the world and let's not start writing off anybody in this country just because of where they come from.

LEMON: Maybe by all immigration he means everybody. Who knows? Maybe European. Everybody.

GARCETTI: Astounding.

LEMON: Maybe.

GARCETTI: Some of the darkest chapters of our American history are written in times like World War II when we scapegoat people and try to change the subject. This is a public health emergency. This is not an immigration emergency. So, I hope we can stay focused on what this really is.

LEMON: Mayor Garcetti, thank you for your time. And good luck to you and everyone out there, your family and everyone in Los Angeles and the state of California as a matter of fact. GARCETTI: Thank you.

LEMON: Thank you so much. I appreciate it.

GARCETTI: I appreciate you, Don. Thank you.

LEMON: I want to turn now to Larry, Dr. Larry Brilliant. He is an epidemiologist, also Dr. Michael Osterholm. He is the director of the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy, and the author of "Deadliest Enemy: Our War Against Killer Germs."

Gentlemen, thank you so much.

Dr. Osterholm, a huge story today is Georgia's plan to reopen the state starting on Friday. They're planning to reopening things like gyms, bowling alleys, body art studies, hair and nail salons, and massage therapy. That's Friday. Theaters, restaurants can reopen on April 27. Is that safe?

MICHAEL OSTERHOLM, DIRECTOR, CENTER FOR INFECTIOUS DISEASE RESEARCH AND POLICIES: At this point I don't know what criteria they are using to make that decision. I don't have a primary data from their state. Looking at what the incidents and new infections are this week or what they're seeing that way.

But I'd be very surprised that you can just open up everything right now. Even rural Georgia we know they have had ongoing transmission. So, again, I think it's all about what information they have that said they can open. And I've not seen any that would support that decision.

LEMON: Dr. Osterholm, the president suggested guidelines to the governors it was 14 days of a lowering in incidents and infection. And Georgia hasn't met that. So that's -- I'm wondering why they're saying --

(CROSSTALK)

OSTERHOLM: Right. That's what the data I'm saying. I mean, we need to have in place the kind of testing that could allow you to know. Are you having new infections or not? Just the absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. So not having testing or availability wouldn't tell us that.

Also, what is their healthcare surge capacity right now, what can they do if they needed to suddenly surge it? And then what other data do they have? Are they doing other kinds of surveillance systems as we call them in public health to know that cases might be increasing?

We're going to be in a constant battle of kind of the accelerator and the brake making sure that we don't destroy the economy. At the same time, we don't let this virus just run loose.

And so, it's going to be a challenge. I don't know that Georgia or any other state for that matter has in place all of those requirements to really open back up with the confidence that they can stop it if it starts to happen again. LEMON: Yes. And they are saying they want to do this but you also

have to continue to social distance when you do that. But I'm not sure how my barber can socially distance while giving me a haircut especially now I got like have afro. I'm like patting it down as much as I can. I got like a big giant thing back here that it's crazy.

OK. So, listen, Dr. Brilliant, I want you to listen. This is Dr. Gupta what he said about this. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: The numbers are still going up. You know, you're supposed to have a 14-day downward trajectory in terms of cases, a 14-day downward trajectory in terms of symptoms. People are reporting symptoms. But you look at the graphic and then you look at the numbers, and the numbers are still going up, you know. They bounce around a bit.

But there's clearly not been a 14-day downward trajectory. So, it doesn't meet the basic guidelines. I also think that, you know, it's just one of the things, Anderson, so what -- so people are should they be worried when they go out? I mean, are they going to go to a place where you obviously can't physically distance like a nail salon or a hair salon or a massage parlor.

Have those places had they had their ventilation checked? Because that's been a real concern. That was part of the guidelines for places of business to have that checked. Have they gone through deep cleaning? Has the person that you're about to not physically distance yourself from been tested? I mean, how is this going to work?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[23:15:05]

LEMON: A big gamble they're taking with the public health there, Dr. Brilliant.

LARRY BRILLIANT, CNN MEDICAL ANALSYT: Yes. Hey, Don. I've got Georgia on my mind tonight. Every epidemiologist in the country has been trained in Georgia, at CDC goes there. It's the Mecca for epidemiologists. And I wonder what Governor Kemp is thinking.

Georgia has twice as many cases per capita as California. It's in the top 10 states for death. Number of deaths has doubled in the last week in Georgia. It's in the top 10 states in the country. I don't understand. It doesn't meet CDC's guidelines. He should just go down the block and go to 1,600 Clifton Road where CDC is and talk to the epidemiologists. I don't think that they'd be happy about this.

LEMON: Dr. Brilliant, you know, one of the biggest questions about this virus is whether you have immunity after being infected. And until we have a firm answer to that question, how can we reopen the country safely without a vaccine?

BRILLIANT: So, this is a baby virus. It's four and a half months old. It's hardly crawling. It's certainly not walking yet. We learn something new about it every day. And one would think that like most viruses if you get it once you get immunity. You may not it for a lifetime like you did for smallpox. But you should get it for a year or two.

However, when we look at the other four viruses that are circulating now that are coronaviruses, they don't provide as much immunity as we'd like to think. So, I'm hopeful that this virus will give us immunity and more than that I'm actually pretty confident that we'll wind up with a vaccine that confers more immunity than even getting the disease. And I think that's really our big hope for getting out of this.

LEMON: Gentlemen, thank you both. Good luck.

OSTERHOLM: Thank you.

LEMON: Good luck.

BRILLIANT: Thank you, Don. Nice to see you.

LEMON: Yes, you as well.

We've got much more to come on the coronavirus crisis that killed more than 42,000 Americans.

And our breaking news out of the North Korea. Kim Jong-un reportedly in grave danger after surgery. We're going to go live to that region next.

[22:20:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: So, we have breaking news out of the North Korea. Serious questions tonight about the health of Kim Jong-un following recent surgery.

I want to bring in now CNN's chief national security correspondent Jim Sciutto, also CNN's Will Ripley. Will is live in Tokyo for us. Jim, I'm going to start with you about your reporting. What would happen next if Kim Jong-un dies. Who would follow him?

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR & CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: OK, let's start with what we know at this point. U.S. official with direct knowledge tells me that the U.S. is now monitoring intelligence that Kim Jong-un's health is in grave danger. This is following a recent surgery.

We should note that this is also in conjunction with other events in recent days. On April 15, five days ago, Kim did not appear at a ceremony commemorating his grandfather Kim Il-sung. That was noted. Speculation grew around that time as to why he was absent from there.

And it is since then that the U.S. received intelligence that he had a surgery and that there were complications following that surgery and that leaves his health in grave danger at this point.

Now we should note any intelligence involving North Korea we have to acknowledge North Korea is the blackest of black boxes. Difficult to penetrate for U.S. and other foreign intelligence services. Hard to corroborate information coming from that hermit kingdom.

And that's always a caveat that you have to keep in mind as U.S. intelligence tries to interpret what is happening inside those borders.

But we should note this as well. It's CNN reporting that the U.S. is taking this information seriously enough that it is the begun to look at least the possibility of contingency planning. In other words, what would you do if, for instance, if Kim were to die from this? Would there be an outflux of refugees? Would there be a need for humanitarian assistance?

The U.S. now consulting North Korean experts including those on the peninsula as to what would happen then. Again, let's note that is purely out of abundance of caution at this point because we're not there. But again, I should note that they are taking this intelligence seriously. That his health is in danger.

LEMON: To Will Ripley who is in Tokyo. So, Will, you have been in North Korea to report for CNN 19 times since Kim Jong-un took power. Speak to the significance of what we are learning tonight.

WILL RIPLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, certainly any time that there's speculation about Kim Jong-un's health it is a major development. I mean, he vanished from public view for 40 days back in 2014 and later was seen walking with a cane after surgery on his foot.

There were death rumors swirling around at that time. His, you know, absence from the Day of the Sun holiday was eyebrow raising, to say the least. But he hasn't been out of public view quite so long.

So, when I asked several highly placed sources about Jim's reporting they were startled. And frankly, this kind of information would be kept so secret even inside North Korea that very few people would actually know what the health condition is of Kim Jong-un.

I mean, I've been in the country where he's rumored to be attending events. His Secret Service surrounds the building people wait around for hours and he never shows up. Even his movements are very closely guarded. Only a handful of people know where he even is at any given time.

But look, this is somebody who has absolute power inside a country that has an increasingly nuclear weapons arsenal and claims to have missiles that are capable of striking the mainland U.S.

So, if there is uncertainty about who potentially is in command right now that raises a lot of red flags for people here in the region and around the world.

[23:24:55] His sister Kim Yo-jong has been a familiar site by his side at the three meetings or at least the two meetings in Singapore and Hanoi with President Trump. Kim Yo-jong was right there. And she just received a promotion at the last time that Kim Jong-un was seen in public before he had vanished from public view. And is now rumored, you know, or believed to have undergone this surgical procedure.

So, what role does she play in all of this moving forward, I think that's something we should keep a very close eye on. Don?

LEMON: All right. Will, Jim, thank you very much. We appreciate your reporting.

I want to bring in now the -- James Clapper. He is a former director of national intelligence. He joins us via phone. Director, thank you so much. My question for you is what is U.S. intelligence doing now and to prepare for whatever happens next?

JAMES CLAPPER, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, thanks, Don. I think Jim and Will laid it out pretty well. As specifically Jim indicated North Korea is a tough, tough intelligence problem.

And so, what U.S. intelligence committee would be doing would be looking inferentially at external, what I call external signs in the terms of behavior of the North Koreans. Are there any military alerts, some sort of restriction on movement in Pyongyang, for example?

So, it will be more indirect inferences rather than direct information on Kim Jong-un's condition. This is somewhat reminiscent of when his father was ill and then later died and there was all kind of speculation about succession and that sort of thing.

And there is not I don't believe a clear line of succession that succession planning is not really something they do. I think Will's point about Kim's sister who I would guess I would assess would be critical in terms of running things during Kim's recovery if that's what is happening or his death.

So, the U.S. intelligence committee pulling out all the stops not only in North Korea but what they can gleam from other places where North Koreans is present.

LEMON: All right. Director Clapper, thank you so much. I appreciate your time. More --

CLAPPER: Thanks, Don.

LEMON: Absolutely. More protests erupting over stay-at-home order. But for every person you see at this protest there are tens of thousands at home or at their jobs as essential workers.

So, since that's the case, who is really behind the protests? Next.

[23:30:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) DON LEMON, CNN HOST: There are now more than 786,000 cases of coronavirus in this country. More than 42,000 people have died. And researches at Harvard say that we have to triple our current level of testing to be able to reopen states.

Now, I want to get to the truth about testing. CNN's Drew Griffin is here as he is every evening, and we certainly appreciate it. So, Drew, the vice president is claiming there's enough testing capacity for all states to go to the phase one of their reopening plan. What's the truth?

DREW GRIFFIN, CNN SENIOR INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT: I don't know if this is a semantic issue or a disconnect issue, Don, but there isn't this capacity in any state that I know, and even where there is some capacity left to test more, there isn't the testing supplies to do it. So, I'm not sure exactly what Mike Pence is saying.

I will tell you that Mike Pence also said if those states also met with the other criteria, which is a downward trend in coronavirus cases over a 14-day period, but even then, Don, I don't know any state that's at that point at this time.

LEMON: So, the president was asked when he'll invoke the Defense Production Act to compel medical supply companies to make more testing swabs. He said it's not necessary. But that's not what you're hearing.

GRIFFIN: And this is such a big disconnect that it is scary because I don't where President Trump is getting his information. Everybody we are talking to in the world of testing is telling me that the supplies are the big issue.

The American Association of Clinical Chemists, these are the people that are actually in the labs, sent a letter last Thursday night to the Coronavirus Task Force, detailing exactly this. And today, the president of that organization, Dr. Carmen Wiley, said nothing is magically changed since we had that letter. This is what she told me this afternoon.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CARMEN WILEY, PRESIDENT, AMERICAN ASSOCIATION OF CLINICAL CHEMISTS: We're experiencing a shortage of collection supplies, the supplies to transport the samples to the laboratory. And then once we get into the laboratory, we require reagents where you can maybe think of them as ingredients to perform the testing, and then report the results to the doctors. So we feel there's disconnect between the theoretical capacity and what we're actually able to do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRIFFIN: And again, Don, they're not actually able to do these tests because they don't have the supplies. That woman, that doctor, is speaking on behalf of private labs, public labs, state labs, all labs across the country. So, again, I really don't understand where the president is coming from.

LEMON: Drew Griffin, truth about testing. Thank you very much, sir. Noisy protests erupting over the stay-at-home orders that are our best weapon right now to slow the spread of the coronavirus.

[23:35:03]

LEMON: But what's behind the protests? CNN's senior justice correspondent Evan Perez has been looking into that, and he joins me now. Evan, hello to you. Good evening. So, Evan, can you hear me? I guess not. Evan Perez? We'll go to a break. We'll get to Evan right after this. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:40:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Reports tonight that former New England Patriots quarterback Tom Brady was cited when he was caught working out in a Tampa, Florida park. At her press briefing, the Tampa mayor, Jane Castor, is saying parks are closed down, and Brady was cited and kicked out of the park when workers saw him. Brady is now the quarterback for the Tampa Bay Buccaneers.

We got CNN's senior justice correspondent Even Perez back with us now. So, Evan, Let's talk about -- earlier, we lost your signal there. Protesters against the stay-at-home orders are continuing today, including this one in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. So, what are you learning about the origin of these protests?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, a lot of them, Don, say that they are grassroots-organized. A lot of them are organizing through Facebook. We see some of the same common language with some of the protests in Michigan, in Illinois, and Ohio. It appears that at least some of it is born of a variety of groups. Some of them gun rights organizations. Some are freedom of speech organizations. And all of them really are tired of the quarantine. Look, a lot of us are tired of the quarantine.

LEMON: Did we lose Evan? All right. Well, we lost Evan. But it's interesting that Tom Brady is sighted.

(LAUGHTER)

LEMON: The protestors aren't. Anyway, let's move on now. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi is telling CNN tonight that Congress is working out the final language for a new deal on small business funding. That is after the initial $349 billion package ran out in less than two weeks. Some chains are facing a lot of heat for getting big loans when other small businesses couldn't.

Joining me now is Heather Haddon of The Wall Street Journal. Hi, Heather.

HEATHER HADDON, REPORTER, THE WALL STREET JOURNAL: Hi. Thank you very much.

LEMON: Oh, I can hear you! Wow! Whew! Music to my ears.

(LAUGHTER)

LEMON: Thank you so much for joining us. Listen, you're reporting says that Ruth's Chris Steak House was able to qualify for $20 million even though these loans are generally capped at $10 million. How did this happen?

HADDON: Yes, a number of big restaurant chains are organized into different divisions. So whether it is an individual restaurant or an LLC that they have formed to conduct their normal business, they are applying under these individual divisions and able to in some instances secure more than the limit, more than $10 million limit.

Now, there's nothing wrong about this. The administration officials did clarify that this was an allowable use for this loan. But clearly, this is causing a lot of backlash because a lot of small independent restaurants have applied for their businesses are closed but they want to open again and can't get this funding. They are really concerned about what they do now that the fund has run out and who knows if more funding will be allotted.

LEMON: This is when I was at the top of the 10:00 hour, when I was going on about how the, you know, how government or at least the administration should try to fix this because some of these really big businesses were taking advantage of the things that should be given to smaller businesses, right, because those are the ones who are hurting and these big businesses were getting -- taking advantage of this.

There are at least two other restaurant chains who took advantage of this provision, including Fogo de Chao, J. Alexander's, several other big chains landed $10 million loans. If those businesses were able to get this much money than actual small businesses, they have been left out in the dust.

HADDON: Yeah, and that's what a lot of the independent restaurants are now saying, that this program should have been set up originally for them and to allow them to apply and to get the funding in a way that they could access easily. So, some of these bigger chains have bigger banks that have been working for them, making sure they have the applications in very quickly and were able to access this funding.

Some of the smaller independent restaurants said they didn't have that same assistance and really needed more help and guidance into trying to get this funding and, you know, really save their businesses.

So, going forward, we might see some changes to the program if we get more funding for it. And we're seeing some interesting turn of events. So, Shake Shack, which is one of the chains that got the $10 million max, actually today announced that they were giving it back, that they were able to access their own funding through the capital markets and they want to give this money back.

LEMON: Are other companies, because of Shake Shack, are they being pressured to do the same?

[23:45:00]

HADDON: So there is definitely a lot of scrutiny in some of these bigger chains because they have accessed this funding. But so far, in talking to some of these companies, they say that they need this money, too. They are big employers and they are local economists. They individually employ thousands of workers. And they say they have the right to this assistance, there was nothing that they did wrong for this, and they plan to use it if they can.

LEMON: Yeah. And so, listen, people should definitely be protesting about that. So, Congress -- Heather, Congress is scrambling to get a new small business rescue package. Do we know the details of that and hopefully this won't happen -- we won't have a similar situation with this one.

HADDON: So that's still under negotiation. Hopefully, we'll have something this week. National Restaurant Association, which is a trade group, they issued a call today for changes to the program. That would try to guarantee some kind of funding specifically for restaurants. They say that this program was never tailored for restaurants.

They want to want to have some of the terms change so they can access -- restaurants can access this funding when they are actually open as opposed to -- so many of them are still closed and if they get this funding, they can't hire workers back. So, a lot of trade groups are talking to the administration and to federal officials to try to get something passed this week and something that is more tailored for their needs.

LEMON: Do we know if there is a push to include more oversight in this funding deal, Heather?

HADDON: You know, there are some democratic voices who have said that some of these big loans should be investigated, that there should have been more oversight to begin with. And, you know, even some of the advocates for this program said it was passed very quickly.

You know, some of the lawmakers themselves didn't fully understand some of the scope of these potential loans and how they would be given out and in hindsight, I think, do agree privately that there should have been changes made. So, we will see going forward what can be added as part of one of these additional federal packages.

LEMON: Heather Haddon, Wall Street Journal, thank you so much. Be safe.

HADDON: Thank you so much.

LEMON: Thank you.

HADDON: Thank you so much.

LEMON: Thank you. That's what you should be protesting. A lot of breaking news tonight. We'll be right back. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:50:00]

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LEMON: The death toll in the U.S. doubling in one week. But leaders across the country are trying to come up with ways to reopen safely. More tonight from CNN' Erica Hill.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR AND NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Gyms, barber shops, hair and nail salons, massage therapists, all cleared to reopen in Georgia on Friday.

GOV. BRIAN KEMP (R-GA): This measure will apply statewide and will be the operational standard in all jurisdictions.

HILL (voice-over): Theaters and restaurants can open April 27th. Bars and nightclubs will remain closed for now. Some businesses in neighboring Tennessee will also be back on Monday. The state's stay- at-home order will now end April 30th. Neither state has seen a 14-day decline in cases, which the president recommended, before moving into phase one of reopening.

South Carolina, giving some retail stores and beaches the green light. Four coastal communities, however, will keep existing restrictions in place, noting there is "no evidence from medical professionals that indicates the threat has diminished," setting up a stark contrast across the country.

MAYOR MARTY WALSH, BOSTON, MASSACHUSETTS: I think that the worst is yet to come for a lot of people.

HILL (voice-over): Boston, Chicago, and Philadelphia, singled out by the White House Task Force as potential new hotspots. Ohio, the latest state to close schools for the remainder of the academic year, as experts caution a rush to reopen could backfire.

ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: Unless we get the virus under control, the real recovery, economically, is not going to happen. So what you do, if you jump the gun and go into a situation where you have a big spike, you're going to set yourself back.

HILL (voice-over): Beaches in Jacksonville, Florida now open with limited hours and what appears to be limited social distancing.

REP. DONNA SHALALA (D-FL): Jacksonville is right across the border from Georgia and it tells you that one state can't make a set of decisions that are inconsistent with public health and with science because it's going to affect another state.

HILL (voice-over): As states and cities look for a path forward, testing continues to be key.

GOV. ANDREW CUOMO (D-NY): The question is how fast can you increase the volume of tests? Because the more tests, the better. That is the (INAUDIBLE). The more tests, the better. Test nursing homes, test schools, test teachers, test prison facilities. But you need the volume of tests.

HILL (voice-over): The city of Detroit now testing its essential workers. Amazon is using thermal cameras to screen for fevers. New York State began antibody testing today, but officials stressed we still don't know how effective those antibodies are.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HILL: Don, Governor Brian Kemp of Georgia was asked whether he was concerned that this new order to reopen some businesses starting Friday could lead to more positive cases in his state. He acknowledged it absolutely could, but said he feels they have what's needed in place to deal with those additional cases.

We should also point out as he was talking about this, Don, talked about reopening the economy, he talked about importance of small businesses and how he needed to get those folks, Don, back to work.

[23:55:03]

LEMON: All right. Erica, thank so much. Just a reminder of how many stories are breaking tonight just while we've been on the air here. There are now more than 786,000 cases of coronavirus in this country. Over 42,000 people have died. That death toll is doubling in just the past week.

The governor of Georgia says he will begin reopening business, including barber shops, hair and nail salons, and massage therapies as soon as Friday even though is state has not met the president's guidelines for states to reopen.

That as the president claims in a late-night tweet that he will sign an executive order to temporarily suspend immigration in this country over coronavirus fears without explaining how that would do anything at all to keep Americans safe.

And our breaking news out of North Korea, the U.S. monitoring intelligence, that North Korea's leader Kim Jong-un is in grave danger after a surgery. That is according to U.S. official, a U.S. official with direct knowledge.

So, I want to thank everyone for watching with so much breaking news tonight. Our live coverage after this with John Vause live from the CNN center in Atlanta. Thanks for watching.

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