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Don Lemon Tonight

Vice President Mike Pence Violated Mayo Clinic's Protocol; U.S. Crossed One Million COVID Cases, More Than 58,000 Americans Have Died; Coronavirus Likely To Come Back By Next Winter; Georgia's Easing Of Restrictions Has Consequences; President Trump Signs Order Requiring Meat Processing Plants To Stay Open; Concerns Grow Over Impact Of Coronavirus On 2020 Election. Aired 10-11p ET

Aired April 28, 2020 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[22:00:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST: Hey, I wanted Don here for this. Not just because he's taken over the show right now with "CNN TONIGHT," but he loves a moment like this.

People showing their thank yous to healthcare pros and first responders in New York City, of course, the virus epicenter. But this afternoon they saluted each other at one hospital. Look at this.

Now, let me tell you what's happening here. The daughter of a veteran wanted to honor all the people at the Long Island state veterans' home at Stoney Brook University in New York this past Saturday. Somebody told me on the radio today, I said you got video? She said yes. She sent it to me, and that was a beautiful way, Don, not just to honor, you know, the healthcare workers, which we have to do, but our veterans who have been taking a beating in this and going too much of it in silence.

DON LEMON, CNN HOST: We can always make time for the people who are doing good things. And especially, especially our veterans. Right? Speaking of --

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: Yes, sir.

LEMON: You got a high and tight. I heard the story behind that haircut.

CUOMO: The missus.

LEMON: You told me you were going to do it. And I heard -- I got wind that somebody else did it.

CUOMO: I got scared.

LEMON: What happened? CUOMO: The missus did it. We used the clippers. She did the one here

and here, she did a two to a four and then we brushed this all straight. She used the eight this way, but I had her leave it alone here because I needed to cover the power alleys.

LEMON: My God. Chris, we had an hour about I'm going to do a two here, I'm going to do the four here, I'm going to some -- you told me I got to get the clippers --

CUOMO: Yes, I got scared.

MACCALLUM: -- from my buddy and it's a secret overnight mission.

CUOMO: I got the clippers, but I got scared and she said, I'll do it, and I said, OK. What I don't like is she wanted to do it with a straight blade and she blade and she wanted to start here.

LEMON: Well, that's it. Now I know things are back to normal in the Cuomo home. But my mom -- mom says she's going to disown me if I cut my hair. She hates it. She's like do not cut your hair off. I'm like, my God. I've been wanting to cut it --

CUOMO: Let me tell you something.

LEMON: -- for like a month now.

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: You owe your mother everything. You look just like her. That is the only reason you're as good looking as you are.

LEMON: She is --

CUOMO: If she had given you the eyes, you would have had to be an actor.

LEMON: It's really bad. She should have given me that voice. Right? I'd be on the radio now.

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: You sound like Sam Elliott. Chris.

LEMON: Or Sam --

CUOMO: Talking the fool.

LEMON: I pity the fool. Don't be talking about my mom like that. All right. Listen, I got to run.

CUOMO: I love her to death.

LEMON: I got a lot to do. She loves you too. I got a lot to cover, so I'll see you tomorrow. Have a good one.

CUOMO: I'll see you, brother. LEMON: Nice haircut. She did a great job.

CUOMO: Thank you.

LEMON: This is CNN TONIGHT. I'm Don Lemon.

Here's our breaking news. The number of cases of coronavirus in this country now passing one million. Tonight, there are over 1,012,000 cases. More than 58,000 Americans have died. But maybe those numbers are blurring together in your mind.

We all know more and more Americans are getting sick. More and more Americans are dying every day, but it can be hard to wrap your head around the numbers. I want you to think of it this way, OK? So, we'll put this up. There, OK, that's Dodgers Stadium. When it's full, it holds about 56,000 people. This is how it looks when it's empty. We've lost even more Americans than that. More than 58,000.

In less than three months more Americans have died from coronavirus than the number of U.S. service members killed in the Vietnam War. And Dr. Anthony Fauci is warning that we could be in for a bad fall, a bad winter.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: It's not going to disappear from the planet, which means as we get into next season, in my mind, it's inevitable that we will have a return of the virus or maybe it never even went away.

When it does, how we handle it will determine our fate. If by that time we have put into place all of the countermeasures that you need to address this, we should do reasonably well. If we don't do that successfully, we could be in for a bad fall and a bad winter.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: That as the coronavirus task force did not meet today for a third day in a row. Sources told CNN the White House intends to scale back the large meetings. But the president still taking the opportunity to take questions from reporters today, claiming the United States is on the verge of passing five million coronavirus tests a day.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[22:05:03]

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You're saying you're confident you can surpass five million tests per day, is that --

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Well, we're going to be there very soon. If you look at the numbers, it could be that we're getting very close. I mean, I don't have the exact numbers. We would have had them if you asked me the same question a little while ago because people with the statistics were there. We're going to be there very soon.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: So, here's a fact. Remember, facts first. The fact is that we are only at five million tests for the entire pandemic. The president said so himself just last night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: We've launched the most ambitious testing effort likewise on earth. The United States has now conducted more than 5.4 million tests, nearly double the number tested in any other country. More than twice as much as any other country. Think of that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Well, as for the president's claim about leading the world in testing, the fact is the United States lags behind many other countries. The Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development says that the U.S. has performed 16.4 tests per 1,000 people.

Italy has performed 29.7 per 1,000. Spain has performed 22.3 per 1,000. But we've got to talk about the Vice President Mike Pence and his visit to the Mayo Clinic today. I want you to take a look at this.

As you can see, Mike Pence, who I remind you heads up the coronavirus task force, is not wearing a mask. Even though everyone else is. Even though Mayo Clinic policy requires all visitors and patients to wear masks.

Our reporting is when Pence and team arrived today the clinic had masks available for the vice president, his team and reporters. There is literally no excuse for this. Though I am sure it won't surprise you to hear that the vice president and his office have a few to offer. More on that in a minute.

We also know that the Mayo Clinic told the vice president's office of their policy prior to his visit. The clinic tweeted that and then deleted it. And then a spokesperson confirmed to CNN, quote, "Mayo shared the masking policy with the V.P.'s office," so those excuses I mentioned, first the vice president telling reporters he wasn't wearing a mask because he's often tested for the coronavirus.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAEL PENCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: As Vice President of the United States, I'm tested for the coronavirus on a regular basis. And everyone who is around me is tested for the coronavirus.

And when the CDC issued guidelines about wearing a mask, it was their recognition that people that may have the coronavirus could prevent the possibility of conveying the virus to someone else by wearing a mask.

And since I don't have the coronavirus, I thought it would be a good opportunity for me to be here to be able to speak to these researchers, these incredible healthcare personnel and look them in the eye and say thank you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: OK. First, he says he doesn't need a mask because he -- he gets tested. What about the fact that it is their policy? It is the policy that you created. What about the fact that they offered one upon your arrival? What about the fact it's possible for a coronavirus test to be inaccurate? And it's possible for you to contract and spread the virus after you have tested negative.

You would think that the head of the task force would know these facts. Now, this is Dr. Anthony Fauci. This is what he said at a White House briefing less than two weeks ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FAUCI: The part about that that I think is often misunderstood is that if you get a test today, like I did today, it was negative. If you get a test today, that does not mean that tomorrow or the next day or the next day or the next day as you get exposed, perhaps from someone who may not even know they're infected, that that means that I'm negative.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: And then there's Dr. Deborah Birx. This is today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DEBORAH BIRX, COORDINATOR, WHITE HOUSE CORONAVIRUS TASK FORCE: If there's virus in the community or you're gathering people from different areas of a state where there may be still residual virus and no virus. If everybody wears a face mask then you're protecting the other person.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: So, the advice from the experts is clear. Remember, he's the head of the task force. The head of the task force.

[22:10:04]

The advice is to wear a mask. Wear a mask for the protection of other people. Yet the vice president chose not to. Next, he says, it's because I need to look these healthcare professionals in the eye.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PENCE: Since I don't have the coronavirus, I thought it would be a good opportunity for me to be here, to be able to speak to these researchers, these incredible healthcare personnel and look them in the eye and say thank you.

(END VIDEO CLIP) LEMON: Come on. You see the mask, right? Can you see my eyes? It's not

an eye mask we're talking about. This is ridiculous. We all know that you can, look somebody in the eye while wearing a mask.

Millions of Americans have been wearing masks during this pandemic. Guess what? They can still see. A recent Washington Post poll found that 65 percent of people wore a mask or face covering in the preceding week. Another 17 percent never even left home. That would be me. Except to go to work. The past week, at least.

So, yes, millions of Americans are following the guidelines. The guidelines that come from the coronavirus task force. Headed by Vice President Mike Pence. But he, himself, very publicly is not.

Then it is the ever-popular throw the staff under the bus excuse. Sources telling CNN that Pence's staff now understands the whole thing was a mistake. The staff? The staff. Should have made sure he wore the mask. Sorry, but you're the boss of that task force. You know perfectly well that you should be wearing a masks -- a mask. You know that. Come on.

And there's really only one reason not to. To be the only one not wearing a mask. That is for an audience of one. An audience of one in the White House, one who said just a few weeks ago this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What would people gain from wearing a mask and why are you opposed to wearing one yourself?

TRUMP: Well, I just don't want to wear one myself. It's a recommendation. They recommend it. I'm feeling good. I just don't want to be doing -- I don't know, somehow sitting in the Oval Office behind that beautiful Resolute desk, the great Resolute desk, I think wearing a face mask as I greet presidents, prime ministers, dictators, kings, queens, I don't know, somehow I don't see it for myself.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: If the rest of us can -- can do it, and we can, then why can't the president? Why can't the vice president? They seem to find leadership on this issue beyond them personally at a time when hundreds of millions of Americans are suffering and sacrificing and dying. But they can't do it.

We're in the middle of a crisis. This is a time when we really need our leaders, our president and our vice president to actually show up. To show some leadership. To lead Americans in the fight against the virus that has killed more than 58,000 Americans. Do as I say and as I do. Wear a mask. It's that simple.

The United States has one-third of the world's total coronavirus cases and Dr. Anthony Fauci is telling CNN he is still skeptical about whether we will have enough testing. I'm going to talk with Dr. Gupta, Kaitlan Collins, next.

[22:15:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: The number of confirmed cases of coronavirus in the United States now surpassing one million. In a warning today from Dr. Anthony Fauci who says he is almost certain the virus will come back next winter.

Lot to discuss. CNN's Chief Medical Correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, and our White House Correspondent, Kaitlan Collins. Good to see both of you. Good evening.

Kaitlan, total cases in the U.S. now over one million. The president maintains that he has a handle on testing. Signed an executive order to keep meat processing plants to stay open. So, fill us in. Give me the latest, Kaitlan.

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, this executive order basically the president is going to use it under the Defense Production Act to mandate that these plants stay open because you are starting to see a lot of companies warn that they may have to close because a lot of these plants have become coronavirus hotspots.

And thousands of these meat processing plants employees across the nation have become infected. And so, there are concerns what it's going to do if just one of these plants closes to the food supply chain.

Because they're warning it can be a really big disruption and it could see meat disappear from the supply chain.

So, the president is trying to stave that off by signing this order. But, Don, it's also raising questions about workers' safety. And several groups were critical of it today. Though the White House said the Labor Department is going to put out some guidance on this. The question is, you know, are these workers actually going to be able to abide by that? What's that going to look like? So that's something to look out for over the next few days.

LEMON: Doctor, let's see, a third of the world's cases are here in the United States, and today we hear from Dr. Anthony Fauci that he is skeptical about the timeline, even months into this, for getting enough tests.

SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. I mean and, you know, let me show you the numbers here. I think we have a graph of this. I mean, it will sort of -- you'll see why it's -- he's skeptical in terms of where we are and what we need. Five-point-eight million tests total have been done in this country.

You know, obviously that's a lot better than it was, but that's the total amount. The plan, according to the White House plan that was released yesterday, they want to do 2 percent a month of the country. That's 67 million tests a month.

[22:20:03] The Harvard road map says he need to be five million tests a day by June, Don, and then ramped up to 20 million a day by mid-summer. So, the delta here between what the White House is saying, six million a month versus 600 million a month, which is what the Harvard road map says.

I mean, it's a magnitude of difference. And as we all know, and Kaitlan, Don, we've all been talking about, you need the swabs, you need the reagents, you need the medium, all that. Even if you have the lab capacity, which has improved. It's a huge delta there. And I think that's -- that's the skepticism Dr. Fauci was expressing.

LEMON: So, Kaitlan, I talked about this in my open just moments ago before the break. Vice President Mike Pence went to the Mayo Clinic today. They have a policy of wearing masks. The vice president didn't. Why?

COLLINS: He says it's because he's been tested for coronavirus. We know he gets tested about every six days. So do the people around him. But, so does the FDA commissioner. And you saw him there with the vice president. You can see him. He's wearing a mask in one of the shots that we have.

And so, the vice president said that that was why he wasn't worried about potentially spreading it or whatnot. But the question really was, you know, this has been a policy that's been in place for over two weeks. They told the president's staff about it in advance.

We're told they had masks waiting for not only the vice president and his staff but also the reporters that travelled with him when he showed up to the Mayo Clinic today. So, he just was the only one not wearing one, and in several of the shots.

And the question really is, you know, what was the point of that? Because it does contract from the whole reason he went there, to visit with these healthcare workers, to talk to these plasma donors. And so now no one is talking about why the vice president went there. Instead, they're talking about the fact that he didn't wear a mask when he was there.

And it's very unlike the vice president to do something like this because he is so focused on optics usually. They pay very close attention to this in their office, and tonight we have heard basically they're admitting it was a staff mistake for the vice president not to wear a mask.

LEMON: Doctor, I just have to ask you, as a doctor, how do you feel when you see something like this? Everybody wearing a mask except for a leader of the task force in a medical facility, the Mayo Clinic no less. I mean, let me, first of all, would you have worn a mask?

GUPTA: Yes, absolutely. I mean, I've been tested as well --

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: So, when you see this, how do you feel? GUPTA: As a doc, I get tested, we get tested. We still wear masks in

the hospital. And you know, the doctors around him, as Kaitlan mentioned, and the FDA commissioner, they also get tested. They wore masks.

Well, you know, it's -- it's a bad example, obviously, that he's setting. He violated the policy. But also, this is a hospital in the middle of a pandemic. You have sick people there. The reason you're wearing a mask is so you don't spread your own germs to somebody else. These are sick people.

So, you know, as a doctor, I'm sure the healthcare folks were not happy about this. The teaching points, which Kaitlan made, one is that you get a test and you're negative, that means you're negative at that time. You can be exposed again and then be positive.

And as we all know I think by this point, you could have no symptoms and still be spreading the virus. So that's a concern.

The other thing is something we don't talk about enough and I think it's going to be an increasingly bigger issue is that these tests, you know, they have about a 15 percent false negative rate. We talk about all these tests as if they are definitely going to answer the question. They even do. But 15 percent false negative rate is significant.

There is a lot of people out there who say there who get a negative result and actually have the virus. I'm not suggesting the vice president does. And he looked totally fine. I'm just saying though, that he should have absolutely worn a mask.

LEMON: Thank you, doctor. Thanks, Kaitlan. I appreciate both of you.

So, make sure you watch when Bill Gates -- Bill Gates is going to join Anderson and Dr. Gupta live for a new CNN Global Town Hall, Coronavirus: Facts and Fears. It's going to be Thursday night at 8 p.m. So, make sure you tune in.

Meantime on this program, new models show that there is a real risk to reopening too early. A big increase in the death toll. We're going to bring you those numbers. That's next.

[22:25:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Medical and public health experts warn the modelling shows states that reopen too soon risking increasing the number of cases of coronavirus and the number of deaths.

For example, the latest modelling for Georgia which began reopening Friday is of serious concern. Will we see the same happen in other states?

Let's discuss. Dr. Kent Sepkowitz is here. The professor of medicine and infectious diseases at Weill Cornell Medical College. And Dr. Celine Gounder, an infectious disease specialist and epidemiologist. Good to -- good evening. Good to see both of you.

Dr. Gounder, I'm going to start with you. Because there is a new model found. And it found that if Georgia had maintained its pre-Friday lockdown policy. In other words, before they opened things like salons and gyms, their coronavirus -- their coronavirus fatality range would between 1,000 to 2,922 by June 15th. And that includes the 870 people that already died.

But under Georgia's plan to reopen the range jumps to 1,604 to 4,236 deaths. It clearly shows the risks Georgia is taking here.

DR. CELINE GOUNDER, EPIDEMIOLOGIST: Well, right. And I think viewers at home have probably heard us speak about this so many times now. That there are a couple of conditions that really need to be met before you can safely lift social distancing restrictions.

So, one of which is you really want to see influenza like illness, cases of COVID as well as deaths from COVID peak and then be on the decline for at least 14 days. Secondly, you want to make sure you have hospital capacity for these patients.

[22:29:56]

And then thirdly, you want to have the capacity to do contact tracing and testing for the cases that you continue to see in the community, for those who have been exposed and Georgia doesn't meet any of these criteria.

Their deaths are still on the rise and they haven't peak yet.

LEMON: Yes. Dr. Sepkowitz, I just want to get your take here or two, because their modelling shows that if Georgia decide to go 100 percent of pre-shutdown activity, essentially no lockdown at all, the death counts soar to 4,279 and 9,748. Again, these are just models. That's not, you know, in the cards right now, but they're based on real data and it's something to consider. At least.

DR. KENT SEPKOWITZ, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: It seems like it's a lot to consider, and the -- I think the game plan seems to be if we ignore it, it will go away. And we'll only harm ourselves by pretending it's a problem. That doesn't work. That's wishful thinking. That's like a, you know, if I wish hard enough and click my heels two times, I can go back to Kansas. It's completely illogical, and I think it's cruel, and it's also very bad governance. But what can I say?

LEMON: Listen, I've got to ask you, everyone is hoping -- everyone I know says, man, I hope the cases in Georgia or Texas or whatever, I hope they don't go up. I hope they're not going to go up. Do you think they're going to go up, Dr. Gounder?

GOUNDER: I think sadly they will. And that's really a concern, not just for people in Georgia, but for the rest of the country. You know, for those of us, for example, here in New York City who have done really hard work of social distancing and we're still doing it to be facing with the -- to be faced with the prospect of having reintroductions of cases from elsewhere in addition to, you know, transmission here, that is really concerning. And, you know, we know that this is a virus that spreads very quickly across borders. So this has me profoundly worried.

LEMON: Yes. Dr. Sepkowitz, The New York Times showed the places where the outbreak is the worst -- is the worst now, OK? Look at this. When you look at cases per capita, the top four are Marianne, Ohio. The outbreak at a prison there. Grand Island, Nebraska. A lot of cases tied to a meat packing plant. Pine Bluff, Arkansas. There is a state prison near there. Gallup, New Mexico, which is right by the hard-hit Navajo nation. And then after that comes, New York City, which, of course, has the most deaths. It's a different picture when you look at it by hot spots.

SEPKOWITZ: Yes. I think the three hot spots right now are the prisons, as you mentioned, the meatpacking industry, which is spread throughout the Midwest and is actually for many small towns is the only employer there. And also nursing homes, which is a crisis that has not gotten enough attention.

It's heartbreaking and it's difficult to even talk about calling nursing homes, you know, god's waiting room, as Governor DeSantis said today, is cruel. I will say again. And very disrespectful. And it also, I think, pretends that the problem isn't preventable. And the problem doesn't need our help.

LEMON: Yes.

SEPKOWITZ: So, again, I'm very also upset. I do want to say, though, that my guess is we're not going to see explosive return of infection. We will see spots. And I worry that as we are seeing now in Wisconsin, three weeks after the primary election, where people were exposed. Yes, there's a jump up in cases. It's compelling to those of us who think its cause and effect. But it's arguable about whether or not it's variation.

LEMON: Yes.

SEPKOWITZ: So I think that --

LEMON: Yes.

SEPKOWITZ: -- we're not going to see it again.

LEMON: Well, that leads us into our next segment and we thank you both for joining us. I appreciate it so much.

Meatpacking plants are proving to be a hot bed of coronavirus in their communities, but tonight the president is signing an order mandating they stay open. How do we keep food on the shelf and keep people healthy? That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[22:35:00]

LEMON: Coronavirus outbreaks temporarily shutting meat plant -- meat processing facilities around the country, shutting them down, raising concerns about the national food supply. This weekend JBS closing their meat plant in Green Bay, Wisconsin, where hundreds of workers have tested positive. Joining me now from Green Bay is CNN's Omar Jimenez.

Omar, good to see you. Thanks for joining. What do we know about the outbreak at this JBS meatpacking plant?

OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Don, it's an outbreak that officials have been monitoring very closely. More than 250 employees alone have tested positive, and at least 79 linked cases, those are spouses, relatives, et cetera. As you mentioned, they made the decision to close this plant on Sunday, and this is a place that alone services 3.2 million Americans per day by meals they're able to get out, and then also 1,200 employees at this facility alone.

Now, when you talk about just the impact it has had on the overall community, the impact it's had on the number of cases, this county, Brown County, is now partly tied to these numbers has the highest infection rate per 100,000 people throughout the entire state of Wisconsin. Against any other county.

And a lot of these places were still operating as the number of coronavirus cases was going -- was going up, and that's because the CDC, the state officials and county officials went through and made inspections and found that the coronavirus prevention practices were up to their standards, but, of course, numbers are very concerning. As we move forward, Don.

LEMON: Omar Jimenez in Green Bay. Thank you, Omar. I appreciate your reporting.

President Trump tonight signing an executive order under the defense production act declaring meat processing plants critical infrastructure. The order requires plants to stay open even as more of them become hot spots for coronavirus.

[22:40:08]

Let's discuss now with former secretary of agriculture, Dan Glickman. Secretary, I appreciate you joining us.

DAN GLICKMAN, FORMER UNITED STATES SECRETARY OF AGRICULTURE: Thank you.

LEMON: So, tonight we're learning -- absolutely, we are learning about more plants with coronavirus outbreaks. Why are these plants such hot spots?

GLICKMAN: I think part of it has to do with the density of people there. The kind of work they do. They're very close together. They're working on lines that move meat and poultry and hogs and cattle very fast across the lines. I think that they hadn't gotten the attention that they should have gotten from either the government or the companies over the years. In terms of sanitation and cleanliness. And it is a choke point for agriculture, because you have all these

farmers and ranchers selling hogs and cattle into the marketplace. But they got to go through these meat plants in order to get the mea process so that they can get to the ultimate consumer.

And so it's a real problem. They become hot spots and these workers, even though the plants are essential, but the workers are essential, too. So the workers need proper sanitation. They need constant testing. So even if we keep these plants open and essential, if the workers are scared to go to work or are sick, it -- they're not going to be very productive at all. So this is a very high-priority issue for our government as well as for our consumers.

LEMON: I feel like that the media needs to do deep dives on food and all these processing plants all over the country and go inside and see how these plants actually operate.

Listen, but the National Pork Board estimates that 1.5 million hogs might have to be killed as farmers run out of space. The same thing could happen to millions of cows and chickens. At the same time, we have people waiting in food lines and unable to afford groceries. Can you help explain why we can't get the food to the people who need it?

GLICKMAN: This is an unfortunate conundrum in politics because our -- in agriculture, because our supply chain runs most of these food -- these foods through processing facilities where they're then sold largely to restaurants, cafeterias, institutions, hospitals. Not as much to homes and to grocery stores as they used to be maybe 50 years ago because people are eating out more and more. But there needs to be a serious review of our supply chain, our food chain in agriculture to look at how we can get this product back to the people who are poor.

You have about 20 million people are going to be unemployed. You've seen the lines at these food banks. They're incredible. There are efforts being done, the Department of Agriculture is working with farm organizations to try to see if they can get the consumer and the producer to meet up sometimes without going through these plants, but this is something that, you know, we see this happening in a lot of part of American industry, where this virus has shown us that some of the supply chains in industry just don't work well when there is a glitch.

And there is a glitch right now. And the short-term answer is to get these plants up to speed, sanitized where they should be, people tested, people separated from each other, and then they can go back to work safely. But in the meantime, we do need to look at different ways to get food from the farm to the table.

LEMON: OK.

GLICKMAN: A little more efficiently.

LEMON: Secretary, thank you so much. We appreciate it.

GLICKMAN: You're welcome. LEMON: Ohio holding a vote by mail primary today. Will coronavirus

change the way America votes? Stacey Abrams is here to talk about that and about Joe Biden. Next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[22:45:00]

LEMON: CNN projecting Joe Biden will win Ohio's vote by mail primary after it was pushed back last month due to the coronavirus. The former vice president is the only candidate left in the race. Bernie Sanders was still on the ballot. Let's discuss now.

Stacey Abrams is a former candidate for Georgia governor and statehouse Democratic leader. She is openly making her case -- or has been -- to be Joe Biden's running mate and we're glad that she is here this evening. Thank you for joining us. We appreciate it, Leader Abrams.

STACEY ABRAMS (D-GA), FORMER DEMOCRATIC GUBERNATORIAL CANDIDATE: Thank you for having me.

LEMON: So, absolutely. Kudos to Republican Governor Mike DeWine for Ohio's mail in primary, putting public health an access to voting over politics. Here is a pew poll that says 70 percent of Americans favor allowing votes by mail. Is this -- is this how we'll all end up voting in November, you think?

ABRAMS: We want it to be the majority of people voting by mail, in part because there are communities that have no choice, but to go to the polls. Those that are disabled who needs access to special machines. Those with language barriers who need the expert help. Those who are homeless -- excuse me. Those who are homeless or have been displaced by covid-19 and those who attempted to vote by mail, but could not get their ballots cast or counted.

And so the goal is to use vote by mail to move as many people out of line as possible so those who need to be in line can do so safely and accessibly. And to your point, Governor DeWine, Governor Larry Hogan of Maryland have joined Democratic governors in recognizing that vote by mail is safe, secure and should be accessible for all Americans.

LEMON: Now let's talk about Wisconsin. Because Wisconsin is now reporting that 52 people who voted or worked at the polls in the state's primary election three weeks ago now have the coronavirus. If the virus hasn't gone by election time, are you worried that people won't vote if mail-in ballots aren't available?

ABRAMS: We know that people can't vote if mail-in ballots aren't available. The reality is every state in our nation has the capacity for mail-in ballots because they use them already. The goal is to scale it up, to fund it, so that people do not have to pay for postage and to make certain the rules are equivalent across the country. So that you don't have to have an excuse, because I think a pandemic is a sufficient excuse.

[22:50:07]

But the reality is what happened in Wisconsin was the result of both a dishonor of the people of Wisconsin, but it was also deeply -- deep misunderstanding of what covid-19 is. This is not something that is simply going to dissipate by November. It does not care about an election date. It cares about whether we have the testing, the tracing and the treatment we need. And until we have that, we have to plan for election that have vote by mail.

LEMON: Joe Biden getting a big endorsement from Hillary Clinton. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON, FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE: Think of what it would mean if we had a real president. Not just somebody who plays one on TV. But somebody who gets up every morning worried about the people that he's responsible for leading during this crisis. You know, Joe Biden has been preparing for this moment his entire life. I have been privileged to work with him over the last 25 plus years.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: So you're supporting Biden as well. And you are speaking very enthusiastically about the chance to be his V.P. He has said that he will pick a woman. He's already really strong with black women. What makes you the best choice over the other women to get the nod?

ABRAMS: Joe Biden is -- Vice President Biden has held this job. He knows what he's looking for in a running mate. And it's going to be his choice. He has a very smart team that's going to put people through their paces, they will do the vetting they need to do and they'll make the right choice. Because it is his choice. What I have done in recent days is simply answer the question would I be willing to serve.

And as a young black woman who often didn't see people who looked like me being asked to serve. When I'm asked the question, I was raised to be honest and to tell the truth and I answer the truth. Yes. But the reality is that what we need is not only to win this election, but we need a leader who can govern our country.

Who can pull us back from the brink of collapse and who can make certain that we not only recover from the pandemic, but that we recover from the economic collapse that's sure to follow. That can only happen if we elect Vice President Biden to be the next leader of our country and I'm going to do everything in my power to make that happen.

LEMON: So, even if you're not -- if he doesn't pick you. You are going to do everything in you power to make that happen?

ABRAMS: Of course. He has no shortage of qualified candidates to look at. And again, this is about a relationship. And only Vice President Biden can determine the relationship he needs and the person he needs.

LEMON: OK.

ABRAMS: I have answered the question whether of I'd be willing. But it's isn't a question of what I'm willing to do. It's what he needs in order to lead our country forward. And I believe it's his choice and I look forward to watching the process play out. But more importantly I look forward to watching his inauguration in January as we start to turn our country back around.

LEMON: OK. Someone who wants to be his vice president. I think, it's important that you -- that we speak about something that's in the news now. As you know, there is a sexual assault allegation against Joe Biden. The accuser name is Tara Reade, tells CNN at the alleged incident happened in 1993. While she was working as an aid in Biden Senate office. She is claiming that she was delivering Biden a duffel bag and said that Biden had her up against the wall in a corridor on the Hill and violated her with his fingers.

Now, CNN has now spoken on the record with her former neighbor who says Reade told her about the allegation within a few years of the allege incident. Biden's campaign says untrue. Never happened. Is this a credible allegation?

ABRAMS: I believe that women deserve to be heard and I believe that they need to be listened to. But I also believe that those allegations have to be investigated by credible sources. The New York Times did a deep investigation. And they found that the accusation was not credible. I believe Joe Biden.

I believe that he is a person who has demonstrated that his love of family, his love of our community, has been made perfectly clear through his work as a Congressional leader and as an American leader. I know Joe Biden and I think that he's telling the truth and this did not happen.

LEMON: So, in 2018 you tweeted it was shameful that Brett Kavanaugh Supreme Court nomination was being rushed forward. And survivors of violence, like Christine Blasey Ford deserve to have their voices heard. Are you applying a different standard now?

ABRAMS: Not at all. I believe then and I believe now that women deserve to be heard, because too often they are not. And Tara Reade deserved to have her story listen to and investigated. What was happening to Christine Blasey Ford was there was no investigation.

There was a rushed to move the conversation forward so that no investigation was conducted. And as I said, I believe that there was -- these allegations needed to be investigated and I believe that The New York Times and subsequent reports support what the Biden campaign has said. And I believe Joe Biden.

[22:55:00]

LEMON: So, you said you have heard her, you've heard enough, you don't believe her. You believe Joe Biden.

ABRAMS: No. What I'm saying is that The New York Times investigation of her allegations. The New York Times investigation does not support the accusation against the vice president. I believe the Biden I know. And I think that he will make women proud that he will make America proud.

LEMON: Does Joe Biden personally need to address this more directly and publicly?

ABRAMS: I believe his campaign has been very clear. And I believe that is approach that they intend to take and I support the approach. Because again, we don't women to ever be afraid to come forward. But we also have to recognize that allegations should be investigated and that those investigations need to be born out.

LEMON: Stacey Abrams, thank you for your time. We appreciate you coming on.

ABRAMS: Thank you.

LEMON: Confirmed cases of coronavirus in the U.S. surpassing 1 million today. More than 58,000 people have already died. Dr. Fauci is warning if states reopen too early, those numbers could get a lot bigger.

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