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Don Lemon Tonight

President Trump Visited Arizona Without Wearing A Mask; Dr. Rick Bright Filed Whistleblower Complaint; More Than 1,200,000 U.S. Coronavirus Cases And More Than 71,000 Deaths; President Trump Claims Models Out Of Whack As Model Cited By White House Predicts Doubling Of U.S. Coronavirus Deaths; President Trump On COVID-19 Vaccines; More States Reopening As Death Toll Tops 71,000; Study Shows Coronavirus Killing More African-Americans Than Any Other Group In The U.S. Aired 10-11p ET

Aired May 05, 2020 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[22:00:00]

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST: But it shouldn't be a joke. And there are too many celebrating it online as this is funny. Watch what he did. Save your laws. That's wrong. It sends the wrong message and we have to be better than that.

Thank you for watching. "CNN TONIGHT" with D. Lemon right now.

DON LEMON, CNN HOST: Infuriates me because we have to have respect for law enforcement, and you know that.

CUOMO: Of course.

LEMON: And we see too many videos -- and you know, you and I cover the whole thing about law enforcement and about people fighting for criminal justice reform. Now imagine some of that, you know, if that had been black or brown faces.

CUOMO: Yes.

LEMON: People doing that.

CUOMO: And now, look, people will say right now their fingers are tapping.

LEMON: Yes.

CUOMO: You got to make it about race.

LEMON: It's not about --

CUOMO: Listen, we're not saying it's about race, but if you switch the race.

LEMON: If you switched.

CUOMO: Just like you switch the race of those protesters and it goes from something where they're good people to now, who knows. I mean, people joke all the time.

LEMON: Aren't.

CUOMO: There's one way you'll change gun laws in this country, you have the brothers and sisters starts showing up with one saying everyone register for one and all of a sudden, the laws will change. All I'm saying is you got to respect the law.

LEMON: You have to respect the law --

CUOMO: What this kid did is a punk move, period.

LEMON: You have to respect the law, you have to treat everybody equally. And you're right. Listen, those -- they -- those are the authorities. And I hear everybody says all the time, why don't those people if they had just done what the cop said and followed the orders, that would not have happened to them. That should go for everybody.

CUOMO: That's right.

LEMON: And some of those protesters are out there and they've got long guns and they are armed. I don't see anybody pushing them down, putting their knees in their back, punching them in the back of the head --

CUOMO: Right.

LEMON: -- throwing them into police cars. Those are the authorities out there. I don't see -- and stomping on flags.

CUOMO: Right. And, look, I'm not --

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: Burning them. Why?

CUOMO: -- I don't want to paint this kid as something that he isn't. I know he's 25. I'm just old.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: I don't want to ruin anybody's life. I'm just saying there's double standard.

CUOMO: Right.

LEMON: There is hypocrisy. Let's not be hypocritical.

CUOMO: That's right. And if this were -- if this were a different scenario -- and look, the kid was arrested. We'll see what happens. But where are his parents? Who taught him how to do this? You know, why isn't somebody telling him the right way to behave?

All those same things apply. Unless we learn that they're buddies. And obviously that wouldn't be true because then then guy wouldn't have been arrested. It would have been excused. We have to be even-handed about how we deal these kinds of stories.

LEMON: Yes.

CUOMO: And who knows what would have happened if you changed a couple of the facts about what we'd be hearing on high right now. If it's wrong, it's wrong.

LEMON: It's wrong.

CUOMO: Don't celebrate it online.

LEMON: Absolutely.

Don't celebrate it online.

CUOMO: Don't celebrate it online.

LEMON: Absolutely. I wanted to talk to you about some of the other things, but you brought that video up. Because I've been -- I'm so sick of hearing people talking about what a drag New York has been on the country and all the money that New York State is taking because we have so many people.

Do they realize -- and I heard your brother talk about how many hundreds of billions of dollars that New York City -- New York State puts into the system and never gets it back.

CUOMO: He's making the case.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: Hundreds of billions of dollars.

CUOMO: He is saying he's not just an open hand asking for things and New York gives its fair share and right now it needs. And it's not just New York, it's other states.

LEMON: Other states.

CUOMO: But look, that's the politics that have entered this situation. They want Andrew -- Andrew is the whiner.

LEMON: This has happen -- this happens -- this happened all the time. I'm just going to give 2020. This happened in 2013. It's happened before. It happens many, many times. I'm just saying over the past four years New York taxpayers, I'm talking about New York State, have given $116 billion more to the federal government than they received back in federal spending for an average of annual negative balance of $29 billion. Far exceeding every other state.

CUOMO: Right. So that's his argument. That's his gripe. Don't say that I'm a mooch when we give as much.

LEMON: Because we're not.

CUOMO: And there are desperate times right now. The argument about economic need, Andrew gets it.

LEMON: Yes.

CUOMO: Because he's got a lot of poor people in this state and his budget is blown. So, there are real things there. I'll tell you what bothers me. I'm getting attacked online by all these new friends he has, overwhelmingly female, who are attacking him for attacking him. He's my brother.

LEMON: Well, you know, I'm glad they're attacking you on that. That's part --

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: Love Gov.

LEMON: I got to tell you, though, every time, listen I live in and out of New York. I grew up in a red state. Moved here from a red state. And every time I lived in a red state I would have to explain to people when they would say, New York, my gosh, you come from there? You live there? Whatever.

I have to explain to them how New York subsidizes a lot of red state living, middle of the country living, but that's another story. I'm glad to -- they're attacking you, though. You deserve it.

CUOMO: I know.

LEMON: Thank you.

CUOMO: I know. It's always better when it's someone else.

LEMON: I got to run. See you later.

This is CNN TONIGHT. I'm Don Lemon.

I have a lot to talk to you about and you've got to hear what the president says tonight. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I would be remised if I didn't ask you one more question about the nearly 70,000 Americans whose lives have been lost. Grandparents, mothers, fathers, sons, daughters.

[22:05:02]

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Right.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We've lost more people now than we lost in the Vietnam War. What do you want to say to those families tonight?

TRUMP: I want to say I love you. I want to say that we're doing everything we can. I also want to say that we're trying to protect people over 60 years old. We're trying so hard. I want to just say to the people that have lost family and have lost

loved ones and the people that have just suffered so badly and just made it, and just made it, that we love you, we're with you, we're working with you, we're supplying vast amounts of money like never before.

We want that money to get to the people. And we want them to get better. And we want them -- you can never really come close to replacing -- when you've lost some -- no matter how well we do next year, I think our economy is going to be raging it's going to be so good. No matter how well, those people can never, ever replace somebody they love, but we're going to have something that they're going to be very proud of.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: OK. So that was a minute-long journey through President Trump's thought process. Tries to express empathy and ends up campaigning on his economy.

The president's message to people who have lost loved ones, we love you, we're with you, we're supplying vast amounts of money. You'll have an economy that you can be proud of. OK.

The empathy part, we love you, but what on earth does the economy have to do with all of the people who are in mourning right now? Is that a bargain Americans need to make? People die so the economy can live.

These are the numbers. But these are the people, really. More than 71,000 Americans have died so far. That is why people point out the president lacks empathy.

And here's what the president says tonight about a vaccine, and I quote here. "There'll be more death. The virus will pass with or without a vaccine. And I think we're doing very well on the vaccines, but with or without a vaccine, it's going to pass and we're going to be back to normal."

With or without a vaccine. The fact -- the fact is that we're nowhere near a vaccine right now. We're nowhere near going back to normal. How are we ever going to go back to normal without a vaccine? That message makes absolutely no sense unless we are willing to allow the virus to run rampant. Where have we heard that before?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: We had a lot of people were saying maybe we shouldn't do anything, just ride it. They say ride it like a cowboy. Just ride it. Ride that sucker right through.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Even though the president is cheering for states to reopen to get back to business, even though they haven't even met his vague guidelines, even as people are dying, and then there's his visit to the Honeywell factory that is producing N95 masks. As you can see, the president who just today said that he would wear a mask did not.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you going to wear a mask, sir?

TRUMP: I think it's a mask facility, right?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you going to wear a mask?

TRUMP: If it's a mask facility, I will, yes. I don't know if it's a mask facility. But Honey -- we're going to see Honeywell. They have done an incredible job on many fronts, and so I'm going to pay my respects to a great company and a great state, the State of Arizona.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: OK. Well, paying his respects to a great company. Better to pay his respects to those Americans who we've lost. The White House official says Honeywell told them that the president didn't need to wear a mask, though a sign at the facility instructed workers to wear them.

It would have been a good opportunity to show some leadership, especially as states are reopening. But the president, who is clearly itching to get back to the campaign rallies that he loves so much, with election day just six months away, ending his speech at Honeywell with the Rolling Stones you can't always get what you want, just the way he ends his rallies.

With more and more Americans dying every single day, the president tonight confirming the Coronavirus Task Force is being wound down. I told you so. I've been saying that for a week now. The vice president saying potentially sometime around Memorial Day.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I think that as far as the task force, Mike Pence and the task force have done a great job. But we're now looking at a little bit of a different form, and that form is safety and opening. And we'll have a different group probably set up for that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you saying mission accomplished?

TRUMP: No, no, not at all. The mission accomplished is when it's over.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: It is definitely not mission accomplished. We still don't have the widespread testing the president promised two months ago. We still don't have the contact tracing we need. We still don't have a vaccine.

[22:09:59]

So, if it's not mission-accomplished and with more and more Americans dying every day, it's clearly not why sidelined your experts now? Why do it? The president making it pretty clear that he wants to pivot to the economy. He wants to tell a success story. Even though the economy is cratering.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can you just explain why is now the time to wind down that task force?

TRUMP: Well, because we can't keep our country closed to the next five years, you know? You could say there might be a recurrence, and there might be. You know, most doctors or some doctors say that it will happen, and it will be a flame and we're going to put the flame out.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Don't know where that five years came from because nobody is suggesting the American economy shut down for five years. And, again, everybody wants to be back in business as soon as possible.

But with another jobs report due out Friday, the president's own senior economic adviser warns unemployment could hit levels not seen since the depression.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KEVIN HASSETT, WHITE HOUSE SENIOR ECONOMIC ADVISER: My guess right now is that it's going to be north of 16 percent, maybe as high as 19 percent or 20 percent.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Worse? Wow.

HASSETT: And so, we are looking at probably the worst unemployment rate since the Great Depression.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Wow.

HASSETT: Because it's a tremendous shock. A very, very terrible shock.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: But as the president tries to turn the page on the -- to the economy, with that jobs report looming, he's sidelining the very people who could answer Americans' questions, who could give us the facts.

Sources say the members of the task force weren't told when they met earlier today, some learning about it from journalists, not the White House. That as the president tells the New York Post his briefings will come back and you'd expect from a man who made his name as a reality TV star, touting the ratings.

But let's remember, the White House banned members of the task force from testifying before Congress unless they have express approval from the chief of staff Mark Meadows. And the president admits it's personal.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why don't you let Fauci testify in the House?

TRUMP: Because the house is a setup. The House is a bunch of Trump haters. They put every Trump hater on the committee. The same old stuff. They, frankly, want our situation to be unsuccessful. Which means death. Which means death.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: So, the president saying the quiet part out loud again. Admitting he won't allow House Democrats oversight of his administration. Which is literally their job. And flat-out lying, claiming Democrats want the fight against the coronavirus to be unsuccessful.

Remember the White House claim last week that Dr. Fauci was too busy to testify? Now we get the truth. He'll be allowed to testify before the Republican-controlled Senate. See what he did there? Lied. But not Democrats in the House.

And speaking of taking things personally, in the midst of this deadly crisis, the president is up to his old tricks, airing his grievances instead of focusing on saving American lives.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What did you do when you became president to restock those cupboards that you say were bare?

TRUMP: Well, I'll be honest, I have a lot of things going on. We have a lot of people that refuse to allow the country to be successful. They wasted a lot of time on Russia, Russia, Russia. That turned out to be a total hoax. Then they did Ukraine, Ukraine, and that was a total hoax. Then they impeached the President of the United States for absolutely no reason. And we even had 197 to nothing vote by the Republicans.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: This again. This impeachment fixation. I remind you, the president's impeachment trial ended in his acquittal on February 5th. The very next day, the first known American death from the coronavirus. More than 71,000 Americans have died since then. Everything I have said in these few minutes has been the truth. Every single word.

Let's bring in CNN's White House Correspondent, Chief White House Correspondent Mr. Jim Acosta.

Jim, thank you for joining us. I appreciate it, sir.

So, the president is back from his first big trip out of Washington today to, as he put it, pay his respects to an Arizona Honeywell factory making masks. He didn't wear a mask and then he said this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) TRUMP: The people of our country are warriors, and I'm looking at it. I'm not saying anything is perfect, and, yes, will some people be affected? Yes. Will some people be affected badly? Yes. But we have to get our country open and we have to get it open soon.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[22:15:02]

LEMON: So, when he says that some people will be affected badly, is he talking about deaths? And as we heard he told ABC that the families who have lost loved ones will have an economy they're going to be very proud of.

JIM ACOSTA, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: You know, Don, he -- there's a lot of testing going on, but, really, it's the president testing out a lot of excuses and we heard some of those today while we were traveling to Arizona on Air Force One.

Listen, you know, the president sometimes is supposed to be the comforter in chief. He was trying to be the salesman in chief all day long, unlike a lot of presidents after a major hurricane or earthquake or some other natural disaster, presidents who go into those disaster zones and try to comfort people who have lost loved ones, lost their homes and so on.

This president didn't do that. This was really his first opportunity to get out and see people and comfort people who have been affected by all of this, and instead what he did was try to talk about how great things are going to be with the economy once we get through this pandemic.

You know, Don, we heard the president try out a lot of excuses today. He was saying, well, the reason why the U.S. is leading the world in deaths right now is because we're doing so much testing in the U.S.

It's hard to see the connection between testing and deaths. If somebody is dead, they've already dead from the coronavirus. But you're hearing the president, I think, Don, trying to come up with some excuses because he sees a very bleak picture and I think he understands that to some extent he's run out of excuses, which is why I think he's starting to prepare the American people for the possibility and the likelihood, quite frankly, that we're going to see tens of thousands of deaths, it appears, over the coming weeks.

And when you heard the president say he sees Americans as warriors, you know, we understand that's something you're going to be hearing from the president in terms of what he's going to be saying to the American people going forward.

That he wants people to see themselves as going through a war right now. In a war, Don, lives are lost. That's what we're about to see at a scale that really Americans just haven't seen in a very long time.

LEMON: And, Jim, again, no mask. ACOSTA: No mask. It was -- it was shocking because as he was leaving

the White House today, -- maybe it's not shocking, but as he left the White House today, he said, well, if the policy is to wear a mask, I'll wear a mask.

And then he got to this Honeywell facility. And I was in the TV pool working on behalf of all the network feeding back information. I saw a sign right in front of me that said masks are required at this facility.

Not only that the president not wear a mask. The chief of staff, the national security adviser, the new press secretary Kayleigh McEnany she did not wear a mask. And we were told by a White House official that Honeywell officials told them that masks were not required of them.

But, Don, this was -- this was a case where the president could have led by example and said, you know what, if these people are going to wear masks today -- and keep in mind, they were not only wearing masks on the assembly floor, they were making masks.

LEMON: They were making masks.

ACOSTA: The perhaps the president should. They were wearing masks as they were making masks. Then perhaps the president should have done that as well. Instead he was wearing goggles.

And, Don, I didn't understand why he was wearing goggles, not a mask. But again, this is -- this is how, you know, they've been running this coronavirus response since the beginning, and that is they don't always -- well, they don't really lead by example all that often and it does leave people sort of shaking their head and wondering what's going on here.

I will tell you. I did ask the president at one point whether he will get a coronavirus vaccine. That was part of our Q&A with the president earlier in the day and he said, well, if the doctors tell me, I'll do whatever they say. But when the president says I'll get a coronavirus vaccine, it's hard to take that to the bank when earlier just today he said I'll wear a mask if they want me to and then he doesn't wear a mask.

LEMON: But goggles. OK. Maybe next time a hard hat. Who knows? Thank you, Jim. I appreciate it.

Coming up, more details on why the official leading the search for a coronavirus vaccine says he was forced out in the middle of a pandemic.

[22:20:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: The former director of the federal office involved in developing a vaccine for coronavirus filing a whistleblower complaint today. Dr. Rick Bright claims that he was ousted after raising early warning signs about the pandemic. The lack of medical supplies and the use of potentially harmful drugs such as hydroxychloroquine to treat patients.

Also alleging in the complaint that it was obvious that Dr. Bright's persistent demands for urgent action to respond to the pandemic had caused a, you know what, "s" storm and a commotion and were unwelcome in the office of the HHS secretary.

For their part, HHS responds that Dr. Bright was transferred to work on testing and they're disappointed that he hasn't shown up to work there.

I want to bring in now Ron Klain, who coordinated the Ebola battle for President Obama. Ron, good to see you. Thanks so much.

So, Dr. Bright claims that his warning in January that the U.S. was not prepared for the virus was met with indifference, which then developed into hostility and his caution against the drug hydroxychloroquine that the president was pushing led to his removal. This is a person who was in charge of the search for a vaccine, Ron.

RON KLAIN, FORMER WHITE HOUSE EBOLA RESPONSE COORDINATOR: Yes, I mean, they're very disturbing charges, and on top of that, as you said, Don, it's a very important job. It's just not being -- it's beyond being in charge of the search of the vaccine. The agency he runs called BARDA.

BARDA which is involved in biomedical advanced research is not just helping to pioneer a vaccine, but also all the treatments, the promising therapeutics, the different kinds of tools we're going to use to treat patients with COVID.

So, a vacancy in that job is a very, very important vacancy. It's a very odd time to remove someone from that job. And the administration certainly owes us an explanation for why Dr. Bright was removed. If not for the reasons he alleges then what were the reasons he was removed in the middle of this crisis?

LEMON: You were the White House Ebola response coordinator and you stepped down.

KLAIN: Yes.

LEMON: And you stepped down when there with five cases left. Does it make any --

(CROSSTALK)

[22:25:01]

KLAIN: Five cases a week in Africa left, yes.

LEMON: Yes.

KLAIN: We basically had the disease pretty much under control. Took a few more weeks after I left to finish up. We left -- though I left -- we left the task force in place. Yes, five cases a week was the level we were at when I stepped down.

Obviously now there is talk of taking apart the White House Task Force on COVID at a time when there are literally thousands of deaths --

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: Well, that's my question. Does that make any sense to hear that, you know -- do you think that this is winding down when you -- when you hear that the projected cases have doubled from the modelling?

KLAIN: No, it's far from winding down. I mean, yes, we are seeing some reductions in New York, New Jersey. That is fantastic news. But in the rest of the country, cases are still going up. And it will take a long time to get them back down. And that's happening at a time now where cases are going up and we're releasing restrictions. That means cases are going to go up more.

We just had one of the deadliest months in American history in April. We're on track to kind of match it again in May. The president says we're on a war footing. We've lost more people in April from COVID than the entire Vietnam War. We're going to repeat that in May. Two Vietnam Wars in two months. A lot of those deaths could be prevented with better leadership and better management from the White House.

LEMON: Why do you think we haven't seen a briefing from -- a coronavirus briefing in over a week?

KLAIN: Well, it's pretty clear that the president got frustrated with his medical experts contradicting him. And the fact of the matter is he can't really get rid of all of them. He certainly can't get rid of Tony Fauci. He's one of the world's leading experts.

So, he's just trying to push them in the background. Make sure they don't testify before the House. Try to limit their public exposure. I don't -- no one is going to be fooled, though, Don. We're seeing the facts of this epidemic in our communities every single day. He cannot spin this away. He cannot press conference this away. It requires action to stop this epidemic.

LEMON: Ron, thank you for your time. I appreciate it. Stay safe.

KLAIN: Thanks, Don.

LEMON: A coronavirus model cited by the White House has doubled their predicted death toll since states started reopening and now the president is making false claims about that model. We've got the facts next.

[22:30:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: President Trump slamming new models predicting a spike in coronavirus deaths as states reopen, even though one of those models is frequently cited by the White House, and the president is wrong on the facts.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: These models have been so wrong from day one. Both on the low side and the up side. They've been so wrong. They've been so out of whack and they keep making new models, new models and they're wrong. Those models that you're mentioning are talking about without mitigation. Well, we're mitigating and we have learned to mitigate. Bu we can be in place, work in place and also mitigate. We've done it right, but now we have to get back to work.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Let's discuss now with Dr. Chris Murray, the Director of the Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation. Doctor, I appreciate it, good to see you. So, you're a doctor not a politician. So, I just want you to respond on the facts please, so people know the truth. Your model has doubled its death toll prediction to 134,000 by August. And despite what the president says, it does not assume a stop in mitigation, is that correct?

DR. CHRISTOPHER MURRAY, DIRECTOR, INSTITUTE FOR HEALTH METRICS AND EVALUATION, UNIVERSITY OF WASHINGTON: That is correct. I think the president was probably thinking about the Johns Hopkins model that was a scenario of no mitigation with the 3,000 deaths on June 1st number. But in our model, we see deaths going up much higher than we originally thought.

And that's really being driven by people getting out and about more, more mobility, and most importantly, states relaxing social distancing mandates. That's pushing up contact rates, pushing up transmission.

There are some positive factors that are actually built into what we're doing that are helping make it less bad than it's going to be, and that is the rise of testing and contact tracing and a little bit the effect of rising temperature, which will put a little bit of a break on transmission. So, all those are factored into our forecast of 134,000 deaths.

LEMON: OK, well, there is some good news there, so there's that. Your latest forecast takes in mobility. It takes in population density testing and temperature. You say warming temperatures and testing increases do not affect, offset your -- do not -- do not offset, excuse me, more mobility. So, when the president says that we're mitigating, is that -- is that enough? It's not enough, right?

MURRAY: Well, you know, we're factoring in the steady increase in testing, which is great, you know? Finally we're in a pretty flat level in the U.S. over most of April, and then recently many states are upping their testing rates. That's going to help.

It is already factored into our numbers. And, you know, the other things that people can do themselves that can help is wear masks, you know, cloth masks, be sensible, avoid, you know, large gatherings, and if they are able to work from home, continue working from home. All those things can help, but the real challenge will be the

temptation that states have to relax more mandates. That's going to push up potentially more transmission. And some states may get tipped over the edge and go back to sort of exponential growth of, you know, a New York-style situation. So that's the risk that we all really need to try to avoid.

LEMON: Listen, you know, there are Cinco de Mayo today and there were, you know, some gatherings, people having Cinco de Mayo parties and you know, gathering in the park, barbecuing and all of that. So, my question is, maintaining aggressive social distancing, is that the only way to keep deaths down, the best way? What do you say?

[22:35:09]

MURRAY: Look, right now our best combination of strategies is for people in their own choices and local governments, and state governments to try to minimize the amount of transmission, minimize contact, whatever is possible there. And at the same time for states to ramp up testing and contact tracing.

It's going to be the combination of those two that will help us avoid, you know, the outcome that we all want to avoid which is, New York- style epidemics happening in other states.

LEMON: Thank you, Dr. Murray. I appreciate it.

MURRAY: Thanks.

LEMON: OK. So, I just mentioned Cinco de Mayo. So, this is today. In Atlanta. Atlanta, Georgia. Cinco de Mayo. Are people acting safe enough or is this unsafe? I'm going to ask a doctor next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[22:40:00]

LEMON: More than 71,000 people have died from the coronavirus in this country. Race is on to develop a vaccine. The medical community says it's the only way to end this pandemic. But the president disagrees. This is what he said to ABC earlier today.

He says there will be more death that the virus will pass with or without a vaccine, and I think we're doing very well on the vaccines, but with or without a vaccine it's going to pass and we're going to be back to normal.

Joining me now is Dr. Jonathan Reiner, he is the Director of Cardiac Cauterization Program at George Washington University Hospital. Everything that the president says -- but welcome. But everything he says, by the way, doctor, I hear that from my friends who are -- by the way, supporters of the president.

They say the exact same thing. I hear this and from conservative media without one basis in fact or science. And I have given up on trying to explain it to them and just sending them fact checks. It is really unbelievable. And on herd immunity. It's -- anyways. How is this virus going to pass without a vaccine?

DR. JONATHAN REINER, CARDIOLOGIST, WASHINGTON: Well, it's going to pass with a great amount of pain and a lot of death. You know, we have an old saying in medicine that all bleeding eventually stops. It's just that sometimes it stops in a way that you don't want.

So, in order to make this as painless as possible, we have to do what we've been doing, which is to socially distance, to wear masks to prevent asymptomatic transfer of the virus when we go out, and to do all these things which in parts of the country really have flattened the curve and all over the world have even more dramatically flattened the curve.

It works. We have to have the patience to do it. It's not that we need -- when we say that we need to open, or when the president says that we need to open, it makes it seems like this is really a binary event, that we're either closed or open.

But what we really need to think about is how we evolve to really the next stage. And the next stage is sort of a new normal where we learn to live with the threat and we tamp the threat down by being smart.

LEMON: So, today the president toured a mask factory in Arizona. Didn't wear a mask. The public health guidance, you know, doesn't that apply to the president?

REINER: Yes, you know, I desperately want the president to get this right because he has such a big pulpit, and he has the ability to -- to really impact behavior. Look, in the factory the president wore goggles. So why did he wear goggles?

He wore goggles because they protect him. They protect him from injury to his eyes. If he were to wear a mask, what he would be saying to the workers there and to the country as a whole is that he wants to protect them.

And when you wear a mask in public, that's what you're saying to your community and to the people at large, you want to protect them. I want to hear that from him. I really want him to get this right. I'm rooting for him to get this right.

And today going to a mask factory, you know, to use a golf analogy that he would really understand, this was a 2-inch putt. It was a gimmick. Go to the factory. Put the mask on. Show that you understand. Set the tone for the country. We get it. We want him to get it.

LEMON: Mark Meadows, Kayleigh Mcenany not wearing one either. What I said earlier about wearing a hard hat, when you visit a place, you know, a construction site, you do that. That's the reason, you want to protect your safety and also you want to limit the amount of injury from you and -- anyway, I digress.

Speaking of masks, doctor, I want you to check out this video. It's people celebrating Cinco de Mayo in Atlanta today. It's interesting because you do see people wearing masks. On the other hand, they're not social distancing. As a doctor, what do you think -- what do you see when you look at this video?

REINER: Well, I see sort of an erosion of the message and some of the tools that have worked all around the world. We have to continue to reinforce them. Look, the virus isn't going to go away until we eradicate with a vaccine.

So, it's going to be with us for probably years. I mean, I hate to say that. You know, the smallpox vaccine, the program to eradicate smallpox started in 1958 and it ended in 1977. So it could take a long time to eradicate a threat like this.

And that was with an effective vaccine. So we have to learn to be smart. So we have to learn to live in an environment where the virus is going to be with us for a while. So, if we're going to be out, we need to have some distance, we need to wear a mask, we need to understand that 40 percent of people with the virus are asymptomatic and they become contagious more than two days before -- before they develop symptoms.

[22:45:14]

If they are going to develop symptoms at all. So it doesn't matter that you feel well. Protect the people that you're with by backing off a little bit. In the hospital, everyone is wearing a mask and we keep our distance.

LEMON: Thank you, doctor.

REINER: My pleasure.

LEMON: A new study shows that coronavirus is killing more African- Americans than any other group in the U.S. The color of COVID is next with Magic Johnson.

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[22:50:00]

LEMON: OK. I want everyone to please pay attention to this. It's important. Coronavirus has killing more African-Americans than any other group of people in the United States. That is according to a new study finding black Americans just 13.4 percent of the population account -- they account for -- we account for almost 60 percent of coronavirus death.

So why is the black community being disproportionately devastated by this virus? Let's discuss now. Former NBA star, Magic Johnson and a personal hero of mine and many other people. Thank you, Magic. I really appreciate you joining us. Thank you so much.

MAGIC JOHNSON, FORMER NBA STAR: Well, Don, thank you. And this is such an important issue right now. And it's affecting African-Americans in such a big way. Killing our community. We got to do a better job, everybody has to do a better job of getting the word out and really explaining what this virus can do and has been doing in our community. It's just been really just wiping our community out. And we started to

take it more seriously, but we have to raise the awareness level and then we have to stay safe.

Even today as we you and I are speaking right now, we have got people going whether some states are open. So, tomorrow without masks and you know, they are not social distancing. So, we're hurting ourselves too at the same time.

And then the federal government has not done their job. And in terms of getting the test. So tests kits in to the black community. So that we can get people tested. And that's also hurting us as well.

LEMON: So, let's talk about this study more. And you know, I have the Dr. Reiner on just before you. And I talked to him a little bit in the break here. So, I'm going to talk to you about the study.

And then I'll tell you what he said. The research says that African- Americans are dying from this virus in such high numbers because of things like access to healthcare. Crowded housing and discrimination. How do we change that?

JOHNSON: Well, you know, discrimination part --

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: Those are long term projects. That's a long term projects. We've got to do things in a short term to stop the spread in the short term. But go on, sorry for interrupting you.

JOHNSON: Well, and then the health issues is always been a problem in our community. Because we're dealing with high blood pressure, diabetes, things that really once the virus you get the virus and you already have health issues, that's a bad combination. So, we have to eat better. We got to exercise, we got to do our part as African- Americans to make sure that we take care of ourselves.

And then also if you know you have those health ailments, then you have to also stay in the House. And whether you as the parent or family members have to take care of parents much like I'm trying to do in the state of Michigan with my own parents.

LEMON: So, Dr. Reiner said in the break -- and he said, he's going to send some more research that he has of his own. But he says it's because African-Americans can't stay home. They have to feed their families. African-Americans are many times essential or most time essential front line workers. African-Americans in many ways have to take public transportation. Where they come in contact with more people.

They've got to take buses. They've got to take the subway. As you know, researchers shown that even the subway here in New York City was a spreader. That's why it's closing down in couple of hours and they are going to disinfectant the subway. They work in hospitals.

Quite honestly, there are people who are flipping people over, changing the bedpans, changing people in the wardrobe and then on and on in the hospital. And that's why in some ways African-Americans are being hit with the virus more.

JOHNSON: Well, that's why we have to have the equipment. The right equipment. Because we are on the front lines. You know, we do work in the hospitals and you know, we are a part of the first responders. And then we work where this virus can get to us. But at the same time, you know, just because you're poor and that doesn't mean that you can't educate yourself enough where you can take precautions too at the same time.

And so we just have to do a better job first ourselves as people. And then we got to have the right equipment because right now, not only are we dealing with these problem that we don't have the right equipment. But hospitals and states and cities, they all don't have the safety equipment either. So, that's where we rely on the federal government to make sure we do have the right equipment. The safe equipment so that everybody can do their job.

[22:55:04]

LEMON: So, when you look at it, listen, 13 percent of the population. I think we should actually do another color of COVID special, because 13 percent of population, 60 percent according to the people who are dying in the case -- I mean, -- in the case, that is unbelievable.

Magic, and I ask you in the break, what do we do when you said maybe we should partner with the churches beyond? Because this is my platform. I'm trying to do as much as I can here. But as I understand, you are partnering with the NBA and the urbanely to try and help address the kinds of social and economic disparities that make a crisis like this worse for black and brown communities. What are you focusing on?

JOHNSON: Yes. I think that's why we love Adam Silver, the commissioner of NBA. He's doing a fantastic job of saying, we have to step in and try to help the black community. As well as Mark (inaudible) at the Urban League. Because that's what we need. We need grassroots organization that can get the word out. The message out. And also go out and educate our people about this virus.

And then the black churches have to come in as well, because they're still the most powerful entity in our community and they have so many members that if we can just get on the phone with those members and just keep robo calling people to make sure that people have the right information, they stay social distancing, make sure you wear a mask, and protect yourself and your family. We must do this if we're going to try to contain this virus in the black community.

LEMON: Yes. Listen, I think that if you should help me -- I hate to do this. You should help me push though.

JOHNSON: I'm going to do that, Don in anyway. Yes.

LEMON: You've got to help me push all the networks -- all the networks should be doing this, because right now this is a public health service. You should not be 13 percent of the population and have the majority of the cases. All the television networks should be doing this. All of the media should be doing this.

JOHNSON: That's right.

LEMON: This is a disgrace to have 13 percent of the population have most of the cases. They should be focusing on the black population. And trying to help folks. It's just not about ratings, it's about providing a public health service to people. I have to say that. Thank you, Magic. I appreciate it.

JOHNSON: That's right.

LEMON: Go on. You get the last word.

JOHNSON: No, I think also the Congressional black caucus -- NAACP, everybody has to come together. And make sure that we can make it better for the people who live in urban America, those people of color, because it's just right now just effecting our community in such a big bay way.

And then also last but not the least. I've got to say that you know, what happened in Flint, Michigan, and in my home state should never happen. And I just feel so sorry for the families that lost a loved one, a security guard and who got shot. That should never happen. Look. We all got to be patient. We got to work with each other. So, I'm praying for that family that lost a loved one. And we can't have that. We cannot have that.

LEMON: We are going to speak to that security guard's family in the next hour here, Magic. Magic, thank you so much. Again.

JOHNSON: God bless them.

LEMON: Everybody, CNN, MSNBC, Fox, ABC, CBS, NBC, PBS, everybody step up. Help the black community figure this out. It is a public service to help the black community right now. Thank you, Magic. Help me with that.

JOHNSON: Thank you, Don.

LEMON: OK, we'll be right back.

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