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Don Lemon Tonight
Justice Ginsburg Underwent Non-surgical Treatment; President Trump Visits An Arizona Plant That Makes Face Masks; Security Guard Killed For Doing His Job; Top U.S. General Says We Don't Know If Coronavirus Came From Chinese Lab Or Wet Market; NYT: How Kushner's Volunteer Force Led A Fumbling Hunt For Medical Supplies; Case Of Georgia Man Who Was Chased And Killed While Jogging Will Go To Grand Jury. Aired 11p-12a ET
Aired May 05, 2020 - 23:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[23:00:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DON LEMON, CNN HOST: This is CNN TONIGHT. I'm Don Lemon.
It is 11 p.m. on the East Coast and we have got the latest on the coronavirus pandemic. There are now more than 1.2 million cases of coronavirus in the United States, more than 71,000 deaths.
As the number of cases continues to rise, and as the health models project an impending spike in death, the White House moving to wind down the Coronavirus Task Force by the end of this month.
President Trump on the road in Arizona visiting a plant that makes face masks saying the task force has done a phenomenal job but it's time to get the country open. Although he did acknowledge that Americans will be impacted by the virus.
Also, today, a whistleblower complaint filed by the former director of the federal office involved in developing a vaccine. His name is Dr. Rick Bright. He claims he was ousted after raising concerns about shortages of medical supplies and warning against treating coronavirus patients with potentially harmful drugs like hydroxychloroquine. A treatment pushed by the president. Dr. Bright will testify on Capitol Hill next week.
Let's discuss now with CNN's White House Correspondent John Harwood, and our resident fact checker is Daniel Dale. We appreciate having both of them on this evening. And good evening to both of you.
John, I have to ask about some breaking news that we're just learning that Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg underwent a medical treatment today. What can you tell us about treatment?
JOHN HARWOOD, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: She went first to get checked out on a civil (Ph) hospital in the Washington area. They discovered that she had an infection caused by a gallstone, she was transferred to Johns Hopkins. She had a non-surgical procedure today. They say she is resting comfortably in the hospital. And will stay
there a day or so. And she will participate in the oral arguments at the court tomorrow from her hospital bed.
Ruth Bader Ginsburg is 87 years old. She's had a numerous health problem including a couple bouts with cancer. But this is one tough human being and everybody who has bet against her so far has gone broke.
[23:04:56]
LEMON: OK, John. So, listen, let's talk about the crisis in our country right now. Over 71,000 people have already died from this virus in the U.S. and that number is expected to double this summer.
So why is this president winding down the Coronavirus Task Force? Does he think that if he doesn't force? Does he think that if he doesn't talk about it, people will forget that tens of thousands of people are dying.
And remember, John, I have been asking you this question and others for about a week now.
HARWOOD: Nobody is going to forget about the coronavirus. But I think President Trump is pretty clearly out of gas on this topic. This pandemic would be an enormously difficult problem for any president, but this is a president without a lot of discipline. Without a very long attention span.
The progress has been made with the social distancing. But it's been slow. Counter pressure from businesses to reopen and a lot of that pressure comes from within the president's own party.
And so, he's gotten to the point where he's just throwing up his hands hoping the governors can keep the problem under control with their efforts so far. Help them a little bit on testing. And try to shift gears to the economy.
He also found that the Coronavirus Task Force briefings which he thought were effective show for him, he's finally concluded they were not helping him especially after that disastrous appearance where he talked about disinfecting or injecting people with disinfectant.
So, he's trying to switch to the economy which once was his strong suit. It's about to get an unemployment rate of near 20 percent on Friday. So, the economy is a wreck. And I think he figures at this point there's nowhere to go but up.
LEMON: Yes. With disinfectant and it gets rid of it in a minute. So, listen, Daniel, the president was asked why he would wind down the task force now. And here's how he responded.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Well, because we can't keep our country closed for five years. You know, you can say there might be a recurrence and there might be. You know, most doctors or some doctors say that it will happen. And it will be a flame and we're going to put the flame out.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: The facts, Daniel.
DANIEL DALE, CNN REPORTER: A few things, Don. First of all, obviously, we haven't even shown that we can put out the first wave, let alone a future second wave. Trump keeps going back and forth on whether or not there might be a second wave.
It's worth noting that Dr. Fauci said last week that it's inevitable, he's almost certain it will happen. And third, there's no apparent scientific basis for Trump's description of a possible second wave as embers of corona or as a flame. Suggesting you could quickly put it out.
Second waves are often more deadly than first waves as the director of the Mayo Clinic vaccine research group told CNN last week. We have the director of the CDC, Dr. Robert Redfield, tell the Washington Post in April that the second wave might me more difficult than the first because it would be intermingled with flu season in a way that this one wasn't.
So, the idea that this is just going to be embers or a flame or two you can stomp out, you know, by putting a paddle or something is not grounded in scientific opinion.
LEMON: OK. I need another fact check from you. Because the president was asked earlier if he was concerned, Daniel, that the death toll, the death projections are rising because states are reopening too quickly. Here's how he responded.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Well, it's a report. And that's a report with no mitigation. So, based on no mitigation. But we're doing a lot of mitigation. And frankly, when the people report back, they are going to be social distancing and they are going to be washing their hands.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Just the facts, Daniel.
DALE: So, he had been asked about a model from a University of Washington group that nearly doubled the projection from about 70,000 to about 135,000. And it's not true that that model assumes no mitigation. I ask them directly They responded the statement that the model assumes no mitigation is not correct.
They did change the model to account for the fact that restrictions are being relaxed that people are moving more. But the idea that this estimate is a result of the them assuming no mitigation whatsoever is simply wrong.
LEMON: All right. Daniel, John, thank you. See you soon. Probably tomorrow night.
At least 42 states are now taking steps to reopen even as more than 71,000 Americans have died. I want to bring in now one of our experts, he's answered a lot of questions for us during this pandemic and he is Dr. Michael Osterholm, a professor at the University of Minnesota and one of the authors of a new set of recommendations for going forward. He's also the author of "Deadliest Enemy: Our War Against Killer Germs."
Doctor, thanks again for joining us, once again, I should say.
MICHAEL OSTERHOLM, DIRECTOR, CENTER FOR INFECTIOUS DISEASE RESEARCH AND POLICIES: Thanks, Don.
LEMON: So, I want to talk about your new report. But first, you know, there's new genetic analysis of COVID-19. It's taken from 7,600 patients around the world and it shows that the virus has been circulating since late last year. And must have spread extremely quickly. What is this new time line indicate to you?
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OSTERHOLM: I don't think there's really that much significance to it at all. We recognize that if this virus is in Wuhan in November and December that it likely was also in other places around the world. People were traveling in and out of Wuhan with high levels of frequency.
So, to me, I'm not surprised by that. What we wanted to look at carefully was there were outbreaks places where we didn't recognize at the time that they could have been outbreaks of COVID-19. And we're not finding those.
So, I think that all the conclusions that we've already arrived at about where the virus came from, what the implications are still hold. And don't be surprised if we see more cases from late November or February show up at other places around the world.
LEMON: You offer up some recommendations in your new report about the future of this virus. So, let's go through it. First states and other communities --
OSTERHOLM: Yes.
LEMON: -- need to plan for the worst-case scenario. Like what?
OSTERHOLM: Well, first of all, on this show, you and I have talked about this before. We're really in the second inning of the nine- inning game. What we have seen so far is just the start. About five to 15 percent in New York maybe as high as 20 percent of the population of previously infected.
This virus is going to continue to transmit in people by people, with people for until at least it gets to 60 percent before it will slow down. All the things we're doing to kind of control it will help but it's going to keep moving like that. That's what these viruses do. When we get to 60 to 70 percent that will be what we called herd
immunity. What the scenarios were that we laid out is how do we get from 5 to 15 percent to 60 or 70 percent.
And so, we did one based on what might be a typical kind of flu pandemic world. Where we see these first set of waves it quiets down for a few months and then we see a very large and disastrous peek of cases around the world in fall or early winter.
The second one was just, we see bumps. A kind of foothill like model where it just continues to pop up in different cities, different countries. It goes down, coming back up. But again, gets to 60 to 70 percent.
The final one is one that with coronavirus maybe it's just a slow burn. It keeps going and going and going. The one thing that can change this is a vaccine. If we can get 60 to 70 percent protection by a vaccine and not having to had to acquire illness to get there.
LEMON: So, you posted three coronavirus scenarios. So, we could see over the next two years you say scenario one, peaks in valleys. Scenario two, fall peaks. Scenario three, slow burn. So, you talked a little bit about it but explain more what we might experience.
OSTERHOLM: Well, again, let me just remind all the listeners to what we're talking about is we got a long way to go. Think how much pain, suffering and death and economic disruption we've had and getting from 5 to 15 percent of the population infected, and hopefully protected.
You can see that's far short of 60 to 70 percent. Our message first of all is wake up world. Do not believe the rhetoric that says it's going to go away come the summertime and we're over it. We're just getting started.
Second of all, each of these is just a road map that says this how -- this is how it might look as it goes from 5 to 15 percent to 60 or 70 percent. The one that we said we have to prepare for is the big wave. The 1918 like phenomenon.
Where if that were to happen the need for medical resources would be many, many times greater than we even saw this spring. Telling someone in New York hospital that basically risk their lives that went through hell to provide the care they have that they are going to have to see something much larger again is obviously a challenge.
But that's what we have to prepare for. And we're not preparing. We don't have a plan for how to get from 5 to 15 percent to 60 to 70 percent. That's a key message that everybody should be talking about right now.
LEMON: Doctor, thank you. More --
(CROSSTALK)
OSTERHOLM: Thank you, Don. LEMON: Absolutely. More and more cases of coronavirus in this country. More and more Americans dying. But that's not stopping states from reopening.
CNN's Nick Watt has the latest.
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GOV. ANDREW CUOMO (D-NY): The faster we reopen, the lower the economic cost. But, the higher the human cost.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NICK WATT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: At least 42 states have now taken steps towards reopening. Today, in Washington State, you can fish, hunt and play golf again. In Arizona, barbers can open this weekend. Restaurants with distancing can open their doors Monday.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MAYOR KATE GALLEGO (D), PHOENIX, ARIZONA: You very shortly will be able to get nails done here in Arizona. That's not something I would do. I would encourage people if you can stay home, please do so.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
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WATT: In Texas, a park ranger told people to social distance and was pushed into the water for his trouble. In California, Governor Gavin Newsom says some retail can finally reopen Friday after 50 days. But the states two biggest cities say they might take it slower.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MAYOR ERIC GARCETTI (D), LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA: Our timing on opening may vary from other parts of the state.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WATT: One national model has now near doubled our number of projected deaths to nearly 135,000.
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ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: How many deaths and how much suffering are you willing to accept? To get back to what you want to be some form of normality.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WATT: And we're still waiting on much needed tools.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We can't resume normal life until we have a vaccine.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WATT: Some researchers say we'll also need 100,000 contact tracers as we reopen to keep track of the virus.
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CRYSTAL WATSON, SENIOR SCHOLAR, JOHNS HOPKINS CENTER FOR HEALTH SECURITY: We don't do this, I believe what we'll see is large surges in cases, large epidemics that may send us back under social distancing measures.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WATT: Now new case counts are dropping in New York.
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CUOMO: There's no doubt that we're coming down the mountain.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WATT: But there's still putting new precautions in place. One a.m. Wednesday morning the city subway will stop. The first suspension of 24-hour service in 115 years.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CUOMO: Why? Because they have to be disinfected.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WATT: Meat packing plants across the country have also closed for cleaning after outbreaks. Nearly 800 employees were sickened at Smithfield plant in Sioux, South Dakota. It's now reopening.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MAYOR PAUL TENHAKEN, SIOUX FALLS, SOUTH DAKOTA: That's what these plants are having to try to figure out, is where do they get to a point where they can say to their employees with confidence, yes, it is safe for you to return to work.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WATT: The president has ordered plants open the supply chain is suffering. And according to one analyst, one in five Wendy's is now out of fresh beef. No longer serving burgers.
Nick Watt, CNN, Los Angeles.
LEMON: All right, Nick, thank you very much.
A security guard in a Michigan Family Dollar -- Family Dollar store shot to death while reportedly enforcing the state's policy to wear a face covering in enclosed public spaces. His family calls it senseless and they're right. I'm going to talk to Calvin Munerlyn's wife, Latryna, next.
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LEMON: OK, everyone. I want you to take a look at the man in this picture. This is Calvin Munerlyn. He was doing his job on Friday. Working as a security guard at the Family Dollar in Flint, Michigan. A verbal altercation with two customers started after he tried to enforce the policy to wear face coverings in enclosed public spaces.
Security footage shows those customers leaving the store in an SUV. That same SUV returning 20 minutes later. Two men enter the store and according to a statement from county prosecutors one of them yelled at Munerlyn about disrespecting his wife.
That's when the second man then allegedly shot and killed Calvin. Calvin was just 43 years old. And his wife Latryna joins me now.
Latryna, I really can't tell you how terribly sorry we are for this devastating loss for you. Can you please tell us about your husband? Calvin.
LATRYNA MUNERLYN, CALVIN MUNERLYN'S WIFE: He was a devoted, loving, kindhearted, courageous, brave, just comedian. Like he was just love everywhere. He was the father that a lot of the kids didn't have. He was the father figure for them. They didn't only take him from me and my family, they took him from a lot of other kids that he's been (Inaudible) five, or six, or two.
LEMON: His --
MUNERLYN: Yes, super-duper.
LEMON: Super-duper, where did that come from?
MUNERLYN: His mother named him duper. And he was just one of those guys who liked to lift 400, 500 pounds. So everywhere you see him he still working out. I don't care if you come into his job. Wherever he gets, he got to you lifting weights and doing pull ups, little pushups and (Inaudible). It didn't matter. He loved to work out and he have you working out if you walk in the door. And he is there working out.
LEMON: I know that you and he have eight children. This is a family full of love. You can tell. You have heard from everyone that we have spoken to and that we've read about. I can't imagine what you are going through now. And how are the kids holding up, Latryna?
MUNERLYN: I have -- we have six children. We have two outside of us. So, we have eight together. My children are very, very strong. They are strong and I say that man is instilled something in them that can't nobody take a way. My babies are super strong. (Inaudible) And my baby boy said as long as he's with God he's OK. LEMON: You know, obviously, this never should have happened to Calvin
or anyone else. They shouldn't have to die for enforcing rules about wearing a mask where they are required. When you heard this, you know, about leading up to your husband being shot, give us your message to people out there. And what you're going through and what people are going through around the country. Can you talk to us about that at this point?
MUNERLYN: I don't have a message for them. They don't deserve a message from my kids or me. That was senseless and stupid.
[23:25:02]
And now my babies are without a father for the rest of their life. One thing they can't take away is my baby was a legendary king. And his legacy will live on. And they can't take that away. Never.
LEMON: Latryna, you know so many people are losing loved ones during this pandemic. And it's heart wrenching because you have this virus that are just stealing people. Your husband was stolen in a different way. Nonetheless, stolen.
MUNERLYN: Yes.
LEMON: It's another loss, right? But each loss is a loss. Right? Do you take any comfort at all -- I hate to ask you this, but that he was acting honorably and trying to keep people safe from catching this virus?
MUNERLYN: My king always acted honorably. Whether he was at that job, club job, restaurant job, he was an honorable man. Period. They can't take that from him. It didn't matter how you tried to take it. You can't take it from him. He was always an honorable guy. Always.
LEMON: He's a frontline worker. He was --
(CROSSTALK)
MUNERLYN: A security guard.
LEMON: He's a frontline worker.
MUNERLYN: Yes.
LEMON: He was out there just like a doctor, just like a healthcare worker on the front lines.
MUNERLYN: Yes.
LEMON: You know, to add to -- go on. I'm sorry, I cut you off.
MUNERLYN: None of them has to deal with this type of situation, you know. They are all frontline workers. But those frontline workers didn't have to suffer this situation like me and my children.
LEMON: You know, before you go, I just -- I want you to hear earlier. This was earlier tonight. I had an opportunity to speak to Magic Johnson about how coronavirus is impacting the black community. And he said this. Listen to this, please.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MAGIC JOHNSON, BASKETBALL PLAYER: You know, what happened in Flint, Michigan in my home state should never happen. And I just feel so sorry for the family that lost a loved one a security guard, and who got shot, that should never happen.
Look, we all got to be patient we got to work with each other. So, I'm praying for that family that lost a loved one. And we can't have that. We cannot have that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: We just want you to know that you have so much love and support coming from all over the country. And I just want you to know that. And I just -- if you -- say whatever you want, Latryna. That's it. That's all I want to tell you.
MUNERLYN: Thank everybody for the support. Calls. It's overwhelming. But I appreciate it. My babies appreciate everything and everyone that has reached out to us. That has sent their condolences, sympathy, cards and flowers. We just appreciate everything.
LEMON: The GoFundMe has started for your family. The information is up on the screen right now. It is gofundme.com and slash, f/donations for Duper. And I hope that you guys stay in touch and you let me and my staff know if you need anything. And I really thank you for coming on tonight. OK?
MUNERLYN: You're welcome. Thank you.
LEMON: Thank you so much. Listen, you all, everybody out there. This is senseless. Don't do this. The man was just doing his job. Everybody is tense right now. Everybody is on edge. People are hurting. Just follow the directions and the rules.
Obviously, people don't need to be shot. No need to be pushing park workers in the pools. You don't need to be fighting with police officers and spitting in their faces and stomping on flags and, you know, taking guns.
Whether it's your right to carry or not to state houses and intimidating people. Definitely don't need to be shooting and killing people. Just relax. Follow the rules. Everybody is on edge. People are working to help out. Calm down. We're all in this together. We'll be right back.
[23:30:00]
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LEMON: The United States top general said today there is no conclusive evidence where specifically the coronavirus originated in Wuhan, China.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARK MILLEY, CHAIRMAN, JOINT CHIEFS OF STAFF: Is it natural or was manmade somehow or somehow manipulated by manmade procedures? As I said the last time and I am still where I was the last time, the weight of evidence, nothing is conclusive. The weight of evidence is that it was natural and not manmade.
Did it come out of a virology lab in Wuhan? Did it occur in the wet market there in Wuhan? Did it occur somewhere else? The answer to that is, we don't know. And as mentioned by many people, various agencies, both civilian and U.S. government are looking at that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: James Clapper is here, the former director of National Intelligence. Good evening, sir, good to have you on. President Trump and Secretary of State Mike Pompeo insist that they have seen evidence that the virus originated in a Chinese lab. But General Milley says that he hasn't seen it. Is he contradicting them?
JAMES CLAPPER, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST, FORMER DIRECTOR OF NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE: Well, I honestly don't know the answer to that question.
[23:34:52]
CLAPPER: But from the weight of the scientific evidence, and I think Dr. Fauci, who might be considered the real authoritative voice here, kind of reaffirmed that it was natural and the most likely scenario is it occurred from, you know, bats in the marketplace.
That is not to say that there is not the possibility that could it have come out of a lab. I'm sure the Intelligence Community is looking into that. What I worry about is the pressure that I'm sure is being placed on the Intelligence Community to come out with an answer that the administration would like.
LEMON: Dr. Anthony Fauci tells National Geographic that the evidence is very, very strongly leaning towards this could not have been artificially or deliberately manipulated. Everything about the stepwise evolution over time strongly indicates that this virus evolved in nature and then jumped species. He has directly contradicted the president. Does that undermine U.S. credibility in the middle of, you know, fighting this pandemic?
CLAPPER: Oh, absolutely. I mean, not only this, but I think the whole way it's been managed kind of undermines our credibility. You know, as the greatest country in the world and the struggles we're having with this and the emerging cases and casualties is a terrible message among other things.
LEMON: Those comments were actually picked up and promoted by the Chinese embassy in a tweet. What is the risk of that kind of information warfare?
CLAPPER: I'm sorry, Don. I didn't hear the question.
LEMON: I said those comments being picked up by the Chinese embassy in a tweet, what is the risk of this kind of information warfare?
CLAPPER: Well, it adds a complexity here. To be honest, I mean, it would be useful to know for sure the attribution. But I actually think we have bigger issues right now and by getting in -- and this is a global problem. This is not a thing that can be -- initially can be limited to America first.
And if anything, we need to be thinking about how to partner with the Chinese to take on this terrible enemy together. So getting into this back and forth and information warfare is, in my mind, an unnecessary distraction.
LEMON: Director, thank you for your time. Please stay safe, you and your wife. Everything is good, right?
CLAPPER: Thanks. Thanks, Don. Thanks for having me.
LEMON: Yeah. Thank you very much. I appreciate it. Coming up, breaking news. A new report on a volunteer force led by Jared Kushner charged with sourcing supplies for the fight against coronavirus and how that effort reportedly went wrong.
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[23:40:00]
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LEMON: Breaking news from The New York Times tonight. There are some new details on a whistleblower complaint filed by volunteer on a team Jared Kushner assembled to work on sourcing masks, gloves, and other PPE for the fight against coronavirus.
Here is what the Times reports. According to the whistleblower, they were given little initial instruction. They used personal Gmail accounts, prompting suspicion from some prospective suppliers and brokers who questioned their bona fides. A few days after they began, a government lawyer belatedly showed up with nondisclosure forms from the Department of Homeland Security.
So, I want to bring in CNN national security analyst Juliette Kayyem. Juliette, good evening to you. Nondisclosure forms. Ok, that's -- we lost Juliette Kayyem. So, anyway, again, this report is out from The New York Times. There is a similar reporting coming from The Washington Post. Kushner coronavirus efforts said to be hampered by inexperienced volunteers.
But again, I have lots of questions for Juliette Kayyem. Again, we lost Juliette's shot. So, we'll take a break. We will try to get Juliette Kayyem, a former Homeland Security adviser to the Obama administration. We will get that and we will talk about this New York Times reporting and other things on the other side of this break. We will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[23:45:00]
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LEMON: So, Juliette is back with me now. Juliette, I want to pick up on this New York Times story about Jared Kushner's disastrous volunteer response team, basically administration sourcing protective gear for first responders and it was a mess. They had a group of young volunteers with zero medical or disastrous experience and a few other leads panned out. This is according to a whistleblower memo. What is your take on this reporting?
JULIETTE KAYYEM, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST, FORMER DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY OFFICIAL, PROFESSOR AT HARVARD'S KENNEDY SCHOOL OF GOVERNMENT (voice-over): Yes. Sorry about that earlier. So, basically describes a system of sort of professionals which is the FEMA people who do logistics.
The logistics are complicated but it is not rocket science. It just requires sort of focus and not being interrupted and it works under systems like incident command and -- basically, it works. It's sometimes doesn't work fast enough but it works.
What happens is Kushner comes in with his fancy venture capital (ph) guys, insert themselves into that system, so that system doesn't actually know what it can do, the FEMA system, and then makes itself available to basically the riffraff, the Trump riffraff, so that, you know, Jeanine Pirro was calling in because she has a friend who has a friend who has a friend who has masks and basically essentially undermines or disrupts the system.
Now, the system is working in real time because we have a pandemic. That's the -- you know, this isn't like the wall or something where, you know, maybe nepotism works there. But this is literally -- you know, 10,000, 40,000, 70,000 people are now dying and they are inserting themselves and distracting the system.
[23:50:07]
KAYYEM (voice-over): So the story is basically why do the logistics fall apart? The answer is from an amazing group of The New York Times reporters is Kushner wasn't doing logistics, right? He was doing favors.
LEMON: Yeah.
KAYYEM (voice-over): That's what was happening.
LEMON: Yeah. Juliette Kayyem, thank you very much. We appreciate that. We're going to have much more on this on CNN tomorrow and on our show tomorrow evening at 10:00 p.m. We appreciate it. A black man was fatally shot while jogging in Georgia. CNN has obtained the video of the incident. We are going to bring that to you, next. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[23:55:00]
LEMON: We have new information about a story that we first told you about on Sunday night, the case of Ahmaud Arbery, a 25-year-old Georgia man who police say was chased, shot, and killed while jogging.
CNN has obtained video of Arbery being shot and killed on February 23rd in Glynn County, Georgia. The video appears to show Arbery jogging in a neighborhood outside Brunswick, Georgia, near a pickup truck with two armed men. A physical confrontation between Arbery and one of the men ensues. Three gunshots are heard before Arbery falls to the ground. I want to warn you. The video is disturbing.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(GUNSHOTS)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: CNN has not independently verified who filmed the video, but its elements are consistent with the description of the Glynn County Police Department's report of the incident. The video was obtained after a Brunswick, Georgia radio host uploaded it on the station's website. The video has since been deleted from the website.
I want to bring in now CNN's Martin Savidge. Wow, Martin. What has been the reaction tonight to this video? Good evening, by the way. What has been the reaction?
MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN ANCHOR AND CORRESPONDENT: Good evening, Don. What you would expect are shock, outrage, frustration. The video, as some people have told me, had made them ill. Others say it brought them to tears. There has been a tremendous amount of frustration here for months now because many people felt that due to the pandemic, the story had not received the notoriety that it needed.
And also, due to the lockdown that the state had, the stay-at-home order and the fact that large crowds were not allowed, people couldn't demonstrate. They couldn't vent their frustrations. They couldn't say how unjust they believe all of this has been. There were protests tonight, people said essentially the pandemic be damned. Here's what the head of the local chapter of the NAACP said about the video.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was extremely disheartened. Literally, upon viewing that video, I began to cry. To believe that human beings could treat other human beings that way, and of course, we see stuff on TV, but to be able to see it for yourself, him fearing for his life and being trapped like some animal between two cars, while men with guns set -- they are trying to take his life as he fought for his life, it was extremely disheartening.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: In addition to the video, there is news on the legal front. Fill us in on that.
SAVIDGE: That's right. There is the 3rd district attorney of this case. The first two had to recuse themselves because of perceived connections to one of the man in the video that has a gun. The third D.A. has come out today, coincidentally enough, and said that he will be taking this case to a grand jury. Now, that is a relief to a lot of people here, to hear that news.
But at the same time, then there is the realization of, wait a minute here, there are no grand juries going on right now, and there aren't likely to be grand juries for quite some time. In fact, the earliest could be the middle of June. So, it adds to the frustration that over two months since anything has happened.
Many believe an arrest should have been made on the very first day. And now, they are being told they will have to wait until June at perhaps the earliest. It could be longer than that. So, it is adding to the boiling temperament here.
LEMON: I understand you encountered some tensions in the area. What is your experience, Martin?
SAVIDGE: We went to the neighborhood today, as we always would, to try to talk to witnesses, to try to even talk to those that were seen in the video, to get their take on this story. And while we were there, we had been videoing for a few moments when suddenly this happened.
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(GUNSHOTS)
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SAVIDGE: Now, that is the sound of semiautomatic gunfire. Nobody was hit. Nobody was hurt. I can't even say for sure if there was someone firing blanks or maybe just with a good sound system. What I can say is it was clearly being directed at us and the message was that we were not wanted in that neighborhood. Don?
LEMON: Oh, boy. Martin, I have got 15 seconds left. Do you know why the radio station took it down? Real quick, if you can, 10 seconds.
SAVIDGE: It was because the person who put it up there had not informed his boss that he was doing so, and there has been such a tremendous reaction against it (ph).
LEMON: Thank you, Martin. Appreciate it. Thanks for watching, everyone. Our coverage continues.
